Forever Peace

Expeted more. It was not a very interesting story and the plot was weak. The end also was kind of strange. Everything rushes into a rapid sequence of events to end in a hurry! Did not like it.

Forever Peace is an interesting book in itself, describing how the group mind from The Forever War/Forever Free could come about, but I didn't really engage with it very much emotionally. Partially because the main character, Julian, is self-destructive and emotionally off. It's self-defence, perhaps. It's not a headspace I want to spend much time in. At least it's reasonably well handled.

It isn't really connected to the other books very closely, either, which doesn't help, and the switching between first/third person is odd: sometimes it felt natural, and at other times, really jarred.

I enjoyed it, in parts, but it sort of leaves me shrugging a bit in ambivalence, too. I didn't have the same compulsive drive to read just a few more pages that I did with the other two books.

Would have been a better follow-up than 'Forever Free'. Suffers from scale issues ('we must solve a problem impacting the world' contrasted against 'by putting brain ports in people') where it's hard to focus on the characters being important enough to really have the impact that results. Similar issue to Malka Older's novels.

excellent story

I really enjoyed this story. As the summary says, "two creatures have wandered the Earth for generations. The aliens have no knowledge of each other...One, the changeling, has survived by adaptation, taking the shapes of many different organisms. The other, the chameleon, has survived solely by destroying anything or anyone that threatens it." I thought the development of the aliens was great - the changeling develops an empathy toward the humans it encounters and sometimes becomes; the chameleon develops into a malevolent being whose favorite human is Josef Mengele.

There are some areas where the book appeared too farfetched - especially the response of one of the main characters to discovering the existence of an alien - but overall the story held my interest and was actually quite a study in human behavior and rituals.

Although not a direct sequel to The Forever War, Forever Peace similarly explored war and the impact it has on society and soldiers, although from an entirely different angle. While Forever War explored issues surrounding the Vietnam War through a story of intergalactic war against aliens and space travel, Forever Peace is firmly earth-bound, providing a more modern look at war with explorations of colonization and race relations. The Alliance clearly represents wealthy white culture with powerful robots driven by mentally linked soldiers. The Alliance has the ability to easily manufacture just about anything, from food to clothes to modern technology, by feeding the details into a machine. The Ngumi, which are not allowed access to these machines, represent parts of Africa and South America, poor and fighting back against more powerful force with guerrilla tactics. The story is told by a single Alliance soldier, Julien, who is drafted into the war and feels sympathetic in the face of the far less powerful enemy. I didn't quite love Forever Peace the way I did Forever War. The POV switched back and forth between Julien's first person view and third person, which was confusing at first. Despite the slow start, it built into thrilling conclusion. Although the ending wrapped up in a way that was a bit unsettling. Nevertheless, it's an interesting novel and one that could spark plenty of discussion.

Excellent, if long delayed, alternate future for the Forever War. Added bonus is to reread the Forever War again. Group think as an alternate to war do not seem very appealing.

Good plot. Thought-provoking themes / ethical dilemmas.

The constant switching between 1st person limited and 3rd person omniscient POV was a bit weird.

I read the first book so I could read this one for my book club and realized you really didn't need to read the first book in order to read the second book. The second book is all set on Earth and has to do with how people are changing and how a small group of people decide to get rid of war they need to change as many people as possible in power. There were lots of questions about how certain things worked in this world and I really wasn't all that excited about reading it.

Like many old school sci-fi novels this has great ideas with less than stellar writing. I will remember some of the ideas, but the characters will very soon be forgotten.

It's a little scary to think that this book was written before 9/11, as it really describes today's political situation quite well--U.S. drones in a never-ending war with ill-equipped insurgents, with terrorist governments that are impossible to pin down, and our own government co-opting private industry to spy both domestically and internationally. All we're missing is drone-soldiers (in development) and direct brain interfaces (still scifi). In any case, the book starts out as a chronicle of army life, but halfway through it suddenly turns into a spy thriller. It was an entertaining read, but I found the protagonists' goals in need of a larger moral discussion (they wanted to brainwash the entire population to make them pacifists), and the antagonists' goals somewhat outlandish (they wanted to create a new big bang, ending the universe, for religious reasons).

My reactions to reading this novel in 1998. Spoilers follow.As Haldeman makes clear in his short author’s note, this book is not a plot sequel to his The Forever War, but it is another examination of some of that book’s themes, and I think it draws some of its power through reference to that novel. By itself, this book opens strongly. All throughout the book is Haldeman’s terse style which features the verbal hooks of irony, understatement, and a delay in revealing crucial information. He chooses a rather odd combination of first person narration by Julian Case and third person omniscient narration. The novel opens with a depiction of soldierboys, military robots operated remotely, in use. They are operated by “mechanics” “jacked” into them. The jack is a brain implant that allows full remote transmission and reception (though the traffic either way can be filtered) of sensory input as well as controlling the movements of the soldierboys. The "jacks" create a subculture amongst their possessors. In the military, a platoon of soldierboys, during their ten day tour of duty, has an intimate, gestalt like connection to one another. Outside the military, people jack into records of other people’s recorded sensory experiences or have sex with fellow jack possessors. There is even a group of ex-mechanics (mostly women – the jacks can not easily be removed) who hang around as prostitutes hoping to jack with mechanics. The war being fought is between the Ngumi and Alliance coalitions. It’s partly a race war, partly a war between the rich and poor (often a country is an official Alliance member but its poor populace has Ngumi sympathies), and partly a war between democracies and dictatorships. Haldeman, in the first part of the novel, excitingly depicts the soldierboy operations, the culture of the mechanics who operate them (including draftee Case), and the “warboys” who follow the mechanics. They seem suspiciously like sf fans in their single-minded devotion, their conventions, and their costumes. They seem a credible phenomenon for a media-covered, high tech, personalized war.As well as being an addition to the ongoing sf dialogue on war and violence that has been going on at least since Robert A. Heinlein’s Starship Troopers and, of course, includes Haldeman’s The Forever War, this is a contribution to the nanotechnology sub-genre prevalent in the last 10 years. The US and other countries have nanoforges. However, they don’t share the technology with others, especially since the large nanoforges are powered by warm fusion plants. The test of one such fusion plant put a very large crater in North Dakota (though there is some doubt as to whether this was an accident or deliberately staged to make the technology seem dangerous enough to rigorously control). America hands out products from their nanoforge to allies – if they supply the raw materials. Haldeman depicts a depressingly realistic and plausible “Universal Welfare State” (not just in America but throughout the world’s richest countries). Basic necessities are provided by the nanoforges (though it is unclear exactly how much medical care is dispensed). If you want more than your allotment (including the strictly controlled alcohol and other drugs), you have to find a job to pay for such luxuries. Military personnel get unlimited rations of liquor and pay. All are subject to a three year draft. Most of the draft positions are make work jobs supervising computers though Class is physicist in his civilian work and a mechanic in the military. (Mechanics come in the near psychotic hunter killer variety and the more normal, pacific interdiction/disruption variety of which Class is.) Only a portion of draftees serve in the military. The first half of the book is compelling portrait of future war, its soldiers ("shoes" are regular infantry of the sort we have now), and the politics and society of the future. However, the second half of the novel – after Class becomes suicidal over actually killing someone, albeit accidentally, in the line of the war is less so. Essentially, it’s a thriller plot with two private conspiracies, both with government and military connections, at war with each other. One is the Hammer of God who are an apocalyptic minded Christian sect who actively seek to bring about the end of the world. They find a convenient tool in the Jupiter Project, a huge, nanoassembled particle accelerator around Jupiter. Case and his physicist lover Amelia, and another cosmologist prove that, when it’s turned on, it will create conditions like those at the very beginning of the Universe and those changes will propagate outward to destroy the universe or, at least, our galaxy – sort of a cosmological reset button. They try to stop the project, and the Hammer of God tries to suppress their warning. The other conspiracy involves Julian and an appealing group of fellow academics. They call themselves the Saturday Night Special crowd after a theme restaurant celebrating the “California Gang Era”. Its leader (Haldeman spends little time rationalizing the science behind the Jupiter Project’s threat) is Marty Larrin, one of the prime designers of the jack technology. Twenty years ago he discovered that even a group of murderers and Special Forces assassins, immersed in the gestalt of a common jack for 20 days, become “humanized”, that is develop so much empathy for fellow humans they become unable to kill except in reluctant self-defense (and then only when immediately threatened). Larrin and Class hatch a conspiracy to subject all the jacked armed forces to this process than implant jacks in the populace and immerse them in the process. The plot succeeds, and the last of the novel is exciting particularly with the introduction of two very dangerous, very fanatical Hammer of God assassins, Ingram and Gavri. However, their internal psychology seemed implausible and cliched – perhaps Haldeman did this to emphasize their inhumanity since Ingram resists humanization – though Dr. Jackson carefully points out that their viciousness is still not outside the bounds of human experience. I also liked that Class loses his ability to jack and, not humanized, actually comes to want to kill Gavrila and Ingram and, in Gavrila’s case, does. (His lover tries to get jacked but is unsuccessful, and their discussions over why she wants to be jacked and the barrier his ability puts between them are interesting and realistic. Still, the last few chapters seem rushed, a trifle confusing at times, and the ending seems a bit contrived – particularly with the media moment of a humanized, old POW being whacked by a non-humanized soldier. As a thematic sequel to The Forever War, this book inevitably invites compare and contrast to that novel. Both feature reluctant draftees cynical about their cause and the military. William Mandela of The Forever War learns humanity started the war with the Taurans. Case thinks it possible the Alliance nuked their own Atlanta for propaganda purposes. Both feature alienation of soldiers returning to civilian life. Mandela finds his own world so altered after his first tour of duty that he has to re-enlist. Case, rotating between 10 days as a soldier and twenty days as a civilian has to have a day of transition. Both novels feature welfare states though The Forever War has a welfare state rationing scarce medical care. Forever Peace is a world of plenty. The humanization process of Forever Peace is the technological equivalent of the gestalt mind of the Taurans and the “Man, Kahn-clones” which eventually negotiate an end to the war. But the most interesting thematic resonance, and it adds an element to the novel that someone not familiar with The Forever War would miss, is the transformation of Class from passive mechanic to willing and necessary killer. The humanized of Forever Peace seem incapable of effectively, fighting unregeneratable psyches like Ingram. Warriors of an unempathetic sort are still needed (though Class still feels his own mortality when looking at Gaurila’s splattered remains), sometimes to kill in cold blood as when Class kills General Blaisdell. Blaisdell poses a real threat, has conspired in real killings, but the humanized, while recognizing his death is necessary, can’t bring themselves to do it. In The Forever War, it was made clear that the Taurans weren’t particularly effective fighters and would have lost the war anyway. Is Haldeman, with his distaste for violence borne of personal combat experience, with his contention that humanity can engineer itself (or, at least, most of its members) a better nature via technology, suggesting the warrior, however reluctant, is still necessary to protect us from our fellow man who are unredeemable?

In the future world of Forever Peace, the United States possesses nanoforge technology, which can create pretty much anything out of raw materials. The U.S. is also in a perpetual war with most of the countries in the Southern hemisphere, which don’t have the nanoforge. U.S. military fights the war virtually via robots called “soldierboys,” which are controlled by soldiers who are “jacked in” to the killing machines hundreds of miles away.Julian is one of those soldiers, but when a mission goes horribly wrong, he can no longer bring himself to fight. When his lover, Amelia, discovers that a planned physics experiment will destroy the universe, creating a doomsday device that anyone with a nanoforge and enough raw materials can build, Julian realizes that mankind can no longer afford our warlike nature. Then another scientist friend reveals a solution, one that may either enhance our humanity or remove it altogether.This was a very entertaining book, with a lot of interesting ideas. I particularly like the way the experience of jacking, not such a new concept in science fiction, is explored. However, after a very long build-up and way too much exposition, I found the end to be unsatisfactorily abrupt and too cut-and-dried. It does seem like eliminating our warlike tendencies is the right course of action to take, but how ethical is it to do so against peoples’ will? No character really takes a stand on this or offers an alternative viewpoint for the rather sticky ethical question raised. The only opposition are such grotesque nutjobs who will do literally anything to bring about the apocalypse so that of course the protagonists seem very sane by comparison.So even though I really enjoyed Forever Peace, I ended up wishing for a bit more depth to it.

A thoughtful, probing book about war and its consequences, the nature of reality in a cybernetic world, and the responsibilities which accompany those two. Not a sequel to _Forever War_, but an oblique tangent from it...

I enjoyed this book when I read it, but now I find that a couple of years later, I really can't remember it. It is the near future, and warfare is conducted via machines run by the minds of part time warrior 'operators'. One of the operators gets tired of the senseless killing, and starts questioning the motives of his superiors and the government, and uncovers a plot. Without giving too much away, that's the general plot of the book. It was full of action and well thought out, just not as memorable as Forever War or Camouflage.

This is a book that I read for a RL book group. I had already purchased the book many years before my group picked it, but hadn't gotten around to reading it. Haldeman is famous in SF circles for his book Forever War, which I also have, but have not read yet. This book is not really a sequel, but looks at some of the issues from Forever War in a different angle (according to the author).In short, I found the book to be awkwardly written, confusing, lacking in focus, superficial, and a slog.The book looks at Julian the POV character, an academic, scientist and part time soldier. They live in a world where nano-tech has made work-for-profit obsolete (at least in the developed world). His military service is as a mechanic, 10-15 days a month. He operates an empty robotic suit that is the 'soldier'. He thinks and feels as if he is in the Soldierboy when it is operating, but his body is safely locked away in cage and not in the field where the action takes place.The other change in the world is that they have found a way to put jacks in people's heads. The jacks allow them to link with others and have a real meeting of the minds. The jack can allow sharing back and forth, or can be in only one direction. Not everyone can be jacked and many die or are disabled if the jack surgery doesn't work. The jacking is how Julian can remotely operate the solider. Besides remote operation he can link with others in his platoon, and those up the chain of command.The people in the book are Julian's friends, his lover, and army comrades. So there are a lot of people and its hard to keep track. Specifically the author uses Julian and then a narrator. But rather than blending them as most authors do, the narrator is set off in a separate chapter. So you are reading as Julian, and then you are referring to Julian in the 3rd person, all in the same voice. Its very confusing, especially at the start. It makes you doubt who is who and it takes you out of the story. There are also issues with the descriptions and wording that jar and slow down the reading, because you have to go back.The lack of focus is that the book seems to wander around with no real purpose. First its an action book with a focus on the war and fighting and stalking as a Soldierboy, then it focuses on Julian's love life and his relationship with his Girlfriend, then his social connections, then it becomes about science, then it winds up as a political, cultural thriller. The transitions aren't that good, you get bored by the time Haldeman moves on. And you ask yourself, what is this about, and when will it end ?The superficiality comes in the big ideas Haldeman tosses around and doesn't really explore.1. The 'war' is between the haves and the have-nots, the whites and the non-whites. Julian is actually a black man, and suffers racism - but he is the tool of a white society. The war is only casually mentioned, and never really explained as to what the conflict is about. Haldeman never explores why its OK for their society to work that way, why educated decent people support it. In many ways it echoes life today, though it was written in 1998.2. Julian and his academic friends discover a giant science experiment will kill all life everywhere, essentially recreating the big bang. Outside reaction to the discovery when they try to warn others, is to either suppress the danger to weaponize it, or for religious zealots to use it to get closer to god by bringing about the end. The zealots have secretly infiltrated the government and the military. Due to the possible extinction Julian and his friends decide that humans must be pacified so that not only will it not happen now, but that humans in the future won't come to the same brink and possibly make the wrong decision. They hatch this secret plot to pacify the world using technology. No talk about laws, free will, or about how aggression when channeled probably fuels reproduction, creativity, exploration, and advancement of knowledge and culture. What will humans with no aggression be like, what is the impact on long term survival ?Its all done in the name of peace so it must be OK, regardless of who gets trampled on. The political right and left end up meeting in the back if you go far enough. They both want to do the same things - suppress rights and control life in the name of safety or freedom.The slog part is just a combination of the writing, and the fact that the story and characters didn't grab me. I keep looking at the page numbers to see how close to the end I was. It isn't actually terrible, but it could have been done so much better and you just want it to end while reading.

The book is very well written, but I just couldn't get into it. The story is kind of bland and it's really more psy-fi than sci-fi to me. It doesn't have very much action or suspense. It hits on a lot of things, it's got romance, racism, and as someone else said above, the ethics of forcing an operation on individuals for the good of the world as a whole. But it never really goes deep in any of them. I may be being too hard on it, but I was just expecting more from a Hugo and Nebula winner.

I fairly like this novel. The story was very engaging in the beginning, but fell off in the middle. Mr. Haldeman explores in much detail a very interesting topic. How does a particular advancement in technology impact the world. And not just in total, but down to an individual. I would recommend this book, even if you have not read Forever War. They are written in the same universe, but are completely disjointed.

It is not that it's a bad story. It's not even a terrible concept. My problem with this book is that everything just sort of happens without any real suspense; events just unfold without too much explination or exploration. I prefered the first half's psychological reasoning for suicide and (cybernetic) dependence. It is the actual plot of the book that gets a little lost with me... This was just not a satisfying read...and I wish it was written a little bit better because I believe that this could have been a great book (for me).Two things I did like about the book: its confrontation of mindless racism (something we seem to be experiencing more and more in a post 9/11 United States); and I thought its manner of going from first-person to third-person narration alternating between chapter breaks. I thought the later was an interesting move by the author.Anyway, I believe I might have been missing something simply due to this book's reception... Or, just maybe, I am the only sane one in a world of madmen?;-)

This didn't come close to The Forever War. Fortunately, despite the deliberate similarity in the titles, it's not related to the latter, either. I read it, I'll probably forget about it some day.

I picked up an omnibus edition of "Forever War", "Forever Free" and "Forever Peace" a few days ago. I had read the first two a while back, and they remain among my favorites, so much so that I can't leave them lying around or I'll reread whole sections every time I walk past them.I had high hopes for "Forever Peace", which is not a bad book by any means, but is perhaps a bit more ordinary than the excellent "Forever War" or the engaging "Forever Free". Both "Forever Peace" and "Forever Free" were written in the late nineties, around 25 years after "Forever War". "Forever Free" is less of a departure, as it expands on the technologies and situations of "Forever War", with a bit more philosophy and a bit less technology. "Forever Peace" seems less connected, there is in fact almost nothing to suggest that the story takes place in the same world as the other two novels.It starts reasonably enough, with the life of Julian Class, a part-time soldierboy operator who joins with his platoon to form a kind of collective consciousness for ten days out of each month. During the other twenty-odd days, Class is a researcher and lecturer in physics. Both aspects of his life are introduced and fleshed out well. The work begins to falter when it the main dynamic of the second half of the work is unveiled. We are meant to believe that the immediate choice facing humanity is either utter and immediate self-destruction or utter and more or less immediate pacification. It's the forced juxtaposition that hurts the work.This is not to say that parts of the work aren't genuinely enjoyable. Haldeman teases aspects out of "jacking" that other authors dealing with similar material haven't picked up. Most notable is his idea the that the prolonged joining of minds through technology leads to greater sympathy of joined individuals for the whole of humankind.At any rate, it's a fairly short read and enjoyable enough if you're willing to invest the time.

Very well done. An excellent follow-up to the predecessor in that it changes the earlier book's focus yet not the tone.