The Master Ice of the Legendary Jazzy 5 and The Soul Sonic Force

Winter 2008 By Troy L. Smith

Master Dee- Master Bee- A.J. Les- Mr. Freeze- Master Ice-

My man Master Ice I finally caught up to you after all these years. Thank you for your time. I like to get right to it where were you born and raised? Ice- I was born at Jacobi hospital in the Bronx and was raised up in The Soundview projects also of the Bronx. 1711 Lacombe Avenue. I have two sisters and a brother who is M.C. Sundance. I am older then Sundance by a year but we have an older and a younger sister. Sundance was younger then me but he was the outgoing one and I was a nerd. I had glasses, braces and I was real skinny. Sundance was the one willing to take an ass whipping from my mother or father to go to those parties back in the days. When we were about 15/16, and after my father had passed away, Sundance was like, yo Im sneaking out tonight! I was like what you mean you sneaking out tonight, where you

going? See Sundance and D.J. Jazzy Jay were good friends when they were about 12/13 years old. One of my best friends from Soundview was Samuel Case and we called him Biggie. Biggie was cousins to Jazzy Jay. Jazzy Jay would come over to see Biggie and the rest of their family and then he and Biggie would come down stairs and we all use to hang in front of the building playing sports, cracking jokes and just hanging out. Sundance and Jazzy became cool with each other. Jazzy started to become an up and coming D.J. Troy- So who was starting up the music in your part of the Bronx (East of the south Bronx.) Ice- Bam, Disco King Mario, Cool dj Dee and D.J. Tyrone. Troy- What made Jazzy Jay put Sundance on? Ice- I asked Jazzy Jay that a little while back and he said to me that when he was going to Taft high school some kids that he thinks were from Harlem, were rapping or trying to rap and were talking like they were this and that! So Jazzy told them I got this kid name Sundance that will take out all three of you guys! The dudes were like you crazy! They met at some location and Jazzy tore it up on the turntables and Sundance wore out all 3 of them. From that point on Jazzy and Sundance became a team. Now in our early days of rhyming there was a guy that ran with them name James Tyler and he called him self Lil Star Ski. I dont know if he named him self after Love

Bug or Busy Bee but that was what he called himself. But he and The Master Bee were running around with Disco King Mario. Then Sundance and Jazzy Jay got on with Mario also. With all respect to Mario he was more of a Disco D.J. and I dont mean he was playing the Bee Gees and s--- like that but he played basically R&B and Funk. I am not trying to crack on the brother but for break beats he had the main 9 or 10 breaks! Bob James, Apache, Scratching, 7 Minutes of Funk, I cant stop, Frisco-Disco, after that it was.So

Jazzy who is from Bronx River is not down with Bam at this time, but hes into the music so Jazzy got all types of s---! So Mario is like, yeah come on you guys can get down. So he was kind of letting them do their thing. So finally after awhile Sundance tells me, you and I are going to this jam at JH 123. Jazzy Jay and I are down with Disco King Mario and we are battling Bambaataa and them. I was like, what the hell are you talking about!?!?! He said, yo I told you I rap! He says to me, Come on with me, you dont have to worry, I am down with the Zulu Nation. I said, Nah you go ahead and go, I am not with that. See Troy I wasnt with it just yet. So they went and battled and I guess Bam won but Bams people stepped to Jazzy in a nice way I guess for Zulu Kings any way. (Ice laughs.) They were like how are you from Bronx River

and you D.J. for Mario who is from Bronxdale? Back then they called Bronx River the Home of God, Africa Bambaataa and The Mighty Zulu Nation. They said why? So he told them he use to try and talk to Bam but Bam wasnt trying to put him on. Bam said you down. Jazzy said if I come Sundance is coming with me! Bam said definitely. If I am not mistaken that was when Soul Sonic Force really came together. Hutch Hutch was an original member along with

Pow Wow, Mr Biggs, and Lisa Lee . There were a few other people that were fluctuating in and out of there. Then Sundance got down. And then

after about 6 months I got on. See I always wanted to be a D.J. and not be out front like that. But my brother was like you got the perfect voice so dont worry about d.j.ing right now because you can always d.j. later on. I was like what the heck. Although I was d.j.ing and learning from Jazzy, and I have to say I have seen some of the greatest d.j.s in the world live. Two of the best for me would have to be Grand Master Flash

who I didnt really watch do it, but when I was at the T- Connection he put on Got to Be Real by Cheryl Lynn and ripped it up so hot, I did not know what the song was, but I was still dancing. I was like oh my God. He straight floored me. Then I saw Jazzy cut. They way he cuts is incredible also! He took Love Rap and changed it into a whole new beat. Jazzy was doing that Peter Piper pick a Pepper scratch way before Jam Master Jay. Jazzy was doing that s--- for Sundance and Freeze back in 79 and 80. That same exact cut! Jazzy was very far ahead of his time. Then with Bam passing him all those crazy ass, funky ass beats, yo we was rolling! Troy- How did Sundance get his name? Ice- I gave him that name. He and one of his other close friends from Soundview (Maurice) rhymed together along with Lil Star Ski. Their names were Huck and Buck! (Master ice starts laughing.) This is what Jazzy told me the other night, and I fell out laughing. So now Sundance is ready to make a move. And I am like you guys need a name. When we were young we all use to like watching westerns. And one day we saw Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid. So I said look your name is Sundance to my brother and told Maurice his name was Cassidy. My brother was like, I aint no dam Sundance! While he was saying this I turned around to look at him and I looked down because he was on his 10 speed bike and it was a huffy. The name of the Huffy was Sundance! I said your name is even on your bike. He looked at me and I said thats your name. Troy- How did you get the name Master Ice? Ice- I got my name Ice when I was 6 or 7. When I was a child my mother use to have social gatherings with my aunts and uncles and a few friends at the house. (Ice chuckles.) Everybody would be getting their drink on, and this and that. I wouldnt drink the drinks but when the ice cubes were in the cups I would walk around and pick them up and chew on them. My mother always said I loved ice. By the time I was 8 or 9 and we were

playing basketball out front in the projects. My favorite player in the NBA was and still is George Ice Man Gervin. So that doubled it up. And when I played I wore number 44. Gervin was my man. Troy- Now is Ice Ice another one of your names or is that another brother down with Bam back then? Ice- No he was another emcee that was down with Soul Sonic Force. And I believe he was from the South Bronx. But we knew each other and we were cool. Basically any one that was down with Bam in some sort of way we all performed together before cats went on to be with their own groups. Troy- Was there another brother down with you guys name Chuck A Luck? Ice- Thats Mr. Freeze. That was a rhyme he use to say. Freezes rhyme would start, everybody calls me Chucky Chuck, Chuck a luck a luck a luck. He would also spit it however he felt at that moment. So that was where his nick name the Chuck a Luck man came from. But he was always Mr. Freeze. Troy- Was Busy Bee or your brother Sundance, Disco Marios first emcee? Ice- I am not really sure but deep down I would have to believe Busy Bee was because that was were James Tyler got his name Lil Star Ski from. Troy- So what was it like growing up in Soundview for you guys? Ice- Well you know something I had the best of both worlds because I went to Holy Cross which was right up the block from where I lived. Troy- All boys? Ice- No it was Catholic but boys and girls attended. I went there from first grade to 8th grade. Then I later graduated from Cardinal Hayes high school in 1980. Shine Head and one of the Fat boys went there too. I played a lot of sports so I knew Jimmy Black that went to play b-ball at North Carolina. My other homie Vernon Giscombe went to

Connecticut. I even got to play ball with and against a lot of known ball players such as

Eddie Pinckney.

He went to Stevenson.

Troy- Yeah I dug his game. He later went Villanova and Boston Celtics. Ice- Ed was my boy. I basically lived in Kips Bay boys and girls club growing up. I got to see great ball players come over there to play like Fred Brown, Kenny Smith and Mark Jackson, the list would go on and I remember trying to get in some those games and Eddie and them would be like, get your little ass out of here, go grab a microphone or something, joking with me. Freddie Brown who I went to school with from 1st grade to 8th grade later went to Georgetown. He also lived in Soundview projects, him and Pinckney played together in Stevenson high. They went against Richie Adams, Gary Springers and Kenny Hutch of Franklin High for the championship, I was there. Troy- That was a hell of crew from Ben Franklin. Ice- Yes but my boys from Stevenson beat them. Troy- What exactly was Kips Bay? Ice- Its a boys and girls club. That Boys and Girls club basically helped all the projects realize that we can all get together and not fight. There was so many things to do in there you didnt want to get suspended. Troy- Where was Kips Bay located? Ice- On White Plains road and Randall Avenue. Basically in the middle of Soundview, Monroe, Castle Hill and Lafayette projects. We started out playing sports and other things and as we started growing up that became one of the Jazzy 5 head quarters. Troy- Where you guys able to keep the peace at Kips Bay when you were playing music?

Ice- Well it basically was a small thing in the beginning and we had our own security but after a while it started to pick up and we told Bam we need Zulu! Troy- Did it get crazy when Zulu got in there, meaning did they cause the drama? Ice- To be honest I never seen The Zulus start a lot of the beefs. But go to Bronx River Center their home base and start something, thats whole different story.

Troy- Well what was the relationship between Bams entertainers and Bams security? And keeping it real I am talking about the thugs of that time that was cracking heads while you guys were on stage. You guys were from two different worlds. Now I have asked all the other crews, some have said they were petrified because any minute one of those dudes could have smacked the s--- out of one of us like they were doing cats in the crowd but they always allowed us to do what we do because I guess we kept those girls coming to the jams! Others have said they minded their business and others said we were all Kool and The Gang. So how was the situation with you guys and The Zulu Nation Security? Ice- The truth. I know when I first got down I was scared to death. Spider, Big Smitty, Crazy Mike, Monk, B.O., Mr. Biggs, Iron Mike and Crazy Phil to name a few were off the hook. Yo I was scared to death of all of them mother f------! And they could look at me and know that s---! But as I got older I got to play against Smitty in basketball and he seen that I could go for mine and he was like, O.k. you not no nerd. As we proved our worth and coming to the parties doing what we do and this and that as well as shouting them out on the mic we obtained acceptance. (We both start laughing.) Yo Big Smitty in the house! they took us in as little brothers. They looked out for us. And yes deep down in side I was definitely terrified in the beginning, but at the end it was all love. I see them today and its all love. And the one thing I can say is I never seen anybody try and step to the Zulus. You could never try to come to a Bambaataa party and try and start a fight. Because you would basically end up holding on to your life by a thin thread. Troy- So these guys you mentioned were Bams closes men? Ice- As far as I know, some of Bams closest men. Troy- These guys over seen hundreds of other Zulu members?

Ice- Yes, basically. Smitty, Iron Mike, Crazy Phil, Monk, B.O. and a whole bunch of guys. I remember Monk also because he was a short brother who was ready to jump on anybody. Even homeboy with the Green Eyes. But to be honest, me being an emcee for Bam kind of meant that I never had to deal with that and I thank God. But looking back on my school days there werent any entertainers in Cardinal Hayes during my time but my brother went to Rice and DMC sat behind him in class. Sundance always use to tell me after RUNDMC blew up that DMC sat right behind him in Rice high school. DMC always use to tell Sundance he was a rapper because he knew

Sundance was a rapper also. So DMC use to say rhymes to Sundance. I love my brother but he was arrogant, he use to tell DMC, yeah whatever man! (We both laughed.) So when they blew up Sundance use to say, yo that brother use to sit right behind me and say those same rhymes. But DMC always stayed in contact with Sundance. Every once and a while they would reach out to each other. Troy- How did you deal with that situation of no girls going to school with you when you got to Cardinal Hayes? Ice- To be honest I wasnt worried about girls not going to my school because I lived in the projects which were jammed packed with girls. Troy- So how many building are in Sound View?

Ice- Oh man! There are actually 12 buildings that turn into 24 buildings. It is really one big solid structure, but its 2 buildings inside of one. See you could come in through the front of 1711, and as you walk through the front of the building to get to the back of it you will walk to either the left or the right to 1715. So although there are 12 buildings that turn into 24, there still might be one or two more buildings to add on. Now growing up in there it was live for me. From the age of 12 to my mid 20s, not even talking about the rapping side, everybody was cool. Just imagine you have 12 buildings, 7 stories high with 7 families on each floor. Everybody got kids. Depending on what age, that was just another friend. Growing up there I learned how to compete and I am talking about every sport we were outside playing. Thanksgiving Turkey day bowl we were out there playing with no equipment. We had our hoodies and leather bombers and we played tackle football. It would be my six buildings taking the 15 best players against the other sides 15 best players. After the game was over we all would shake or hug each other. Go home and take a shower and go eat thanksgiving dinner. Troy- No, I hear the togetherness of you guys but what about the Wild Wild West of it? Ice- Well back in those days before I was 16 years old the older cats were basically over in this legendary bar called the Cozy Corner which I believe is on Common Wealth. This place closed in the late 80s. Thats where Nicky Barnes and other known gangsters would come as well as James Brown or Joe Frazier. Everybody who was somebody, would come to the Cozy Corner when ever they came to the Bronx. But they also use to have World War 8 over by the spot. (We both started laughing.) I remember being like 13 or 14 years old and going to the store and I am not even paying attention, I told you I was a nerd growing up. Im walking down the street and I hear gun shoots! I turn and look, and I cant say their names because it was probably some O.G. Gangster s---. I dont even know if they are alive today, but they are firing guns point blank at each other. It blew my mind. Then you had The Black Spades who were running wild. I actually saw the Black

Spades come through my projects twice. The Spades came through because some guy was wearing a Spade jacket on one side and the colors of another gang on the other side of his jacket. So when the Spades came through they took this dude to the roof. This guy running with the Spades had nothing but muscles,

hung the guy over the roof by one ankle. Homeboy was so scared the next day he found Jesus and never went back to that lifestyle. So like I told you I was a nerd, so I wasnt trying to be out there. Plus my mother wasnt having it. And it wasnt like it might be today where guys were trying to bum rush you to recruit you. Back then you walked up to them and asked, How can I be down! Ill put it to you this way, my moms was a legend in Soundview. She baby sat basically a lot of the kids that later turned into either gangsters, drug dealers or regular 9 to 5 brothers. So when she walked through where ever it was cats would say to each other, Thats momma Hey, (short for Mrs. Heyward.) do not go over the line! They all responded like that because every single one of them got an ass whipping from her when they were coming up. But all of a sudden all the gang stuff stopped and once it started sliding into Hip Hop Sound view was great. Before Hip Hop I was a brain, a nerd. I was always in the school books. I wasnt thinking about any streets, let alone hip hop. But my brother came to me and said you coming with me. He said were going to Bronx River! I said, yo I am scared to death of Bronx River, thats them Zulu n------! He said you coming with me dont even worry about it. When we got to Bronx River Bam is playing. I got to meet Bam and

I already knew Jazzy. But just standing behind those ropes I said, Damn I can do this. (Ice starts laughing.) Because everybody else was on the other side of the rope and they was like, Who is this n-----! When I got home I said you know something I am going to do the rap thing. Troy- So now your writing before you went back to the park with Bam and Jazzy Jay? Ice- Right, basically I would write and then I would say it back to my brother, because by that time he was the best emcee in Soundview and probably the South Bronx! Mele

Mel was the King at that time, but Sundance was hanging. So when I wrote something I would say it to him. He basically told me I had a nice voice so write what you feel, and dont try to be somebody you are not and go from there. I cant remember the first rhyme I wrote but I read it to him and he said, thats cool now give me four more like that! I was like damn o.k.. But like I said I was into school so me writing lyrically was not a problem. English was my favorite subject. I could write all day. I wrote four more, he said o.k. We then went in the room and he put on a tape and he said now kick it with me. He said a rhyme then he passed it to me. I said a rhyme and passed it back to him, we went back and forth. Then he said, If you ever mess up just start talking to the crowd, you know throw your hands in the air wave them like you just dont care, because they dont know. (Ice is laughing.) So we go back to Bronx River and Master Bee, Biggs, Bam, Charlie Choo and the rest were there. Everybody was rocking doing this and that. And I was standing on the side checking it all out. Sundance put a mic in my hand and Charlie Choo was rapping. Then Charlie Choo called me on. I just went for it, I rock it and when I finished Bam was like you down with the Soul Sonic Force! Troy- Damn aint that something on your first shot. So when did it get serious and you started getting paid and everything else that comes with being a member of The Soul Sonic Force? Ice- Deep down inside I dont truly remember getting paid as a member of The Soul Sonic Force. Bam might throw us 20 or 40 dollars if he really and truly had it like that. But for the most part he would take everybody to White Castles. Everybody would grab a bag of burgers and walk home. We were just doing it for the love of it.

Troy- I lot of your contemporaries felt the same way such as L.A. Sunshine. He said him

and Moe played for pizza back then! Ice- Right, so when I heard cats were getting paid I was like, For real! And I do know that Bam was buying equipment and records. But if we got $20 we were cool. From what I remember the original members before I got on were Biggs, Pow Wow, Lisa Lee, Hutch Hutch and Sundance. Anybody before that I cant tell you. But I guess Biggs was the first one, he was the original that I can remember. If it is somebody else blame it on my brain and not my heart. After the originals then it was Charlie Choo, Master Bee, and myself. Troy- So that would be about 9? Ice- Yeah and there were a few other cats. Ice Ice was down too. He might have been down with the original crew as well. Troy- So it was never really a set crew. Ice- Not really, cats came and went. Troy- So front to back who was the best emcee! Ice- Ah man you going to get me killed. Deep down inside I would have to say my brother Sundance. Number 2 would bedamn you doing this to me! Hutch Hutch and then Lisa Lee. Troy- You serious? Ice- I would even say Lisa Lee and then Hutch Hutch.

Troy- What about Pow Wow?

Ice- Pow Wow was hot but I guess I liked Hutch because he sounded like Joe Tex on the mic. Hutch had a commanding presence. He was like Teddy Pendergrass take em off (Master Ice tries to mimic Teddy Pendergrass voice.) Like I said there were so many rappers running with Bam that I didnt hear too much of Pow Wow. But I did hear a lot of Hutch and Lisa Lee. And I was going to say Pow Wow after Lisa Lee butsee you going to get me in trouble man. (We both laugh.) Troy- I guess I always thought Pow Wow was number one because he appeared to have longer rhymes then all the rest of you guys. And as far as Sundance, I dont have as many tapes of him as I do of Pow Wow. Now what was up with this crew named Rockzilla? That name caught me by surprise! Ice- Rockzilla was also from Soundview. See Bam had many groups all over the Bronx. Troy- I didnt know that, I just thought it was you guys, Soul Sonic, Cosmic Force, Funk Machine from Mayberry and D.Sts Infinity Rappers from up by Mount Vernon. Now you are saying there are other groups with a strong membership card? Ice- Yes but the Rockzilla Crew was like a mini group out of Soundview. Because every group you named were more established then the Rockzilla crew. But Africa Quamay of Rockzilla had a sound system from hell. Sundance, myself and a lot of the other emcees from the area would rap with him and his partner when ever they did something in the big park. Troy- So of the three Kings; Caz, Moe and Mel, who do you favor the most? Ice- My man Grand Master Caz. And you know something I would not have said that back in the days because I was a Kool Moe Dee fan. Troy- I feel you kid. Moe is from Harlem so I heard him first. But today I have more tapes of Caz so over time I started digging him more then Moe. But I probably dig them the same. Ice- Moe was ripping mother f------! Nobody was trying to f--- with him. I dont care what nobody says. Caz was nice lyrically but in those early days I wasnt feeling Caz voice. At that time he sounded kind of winy. But lyrically he was spitting. Mel to me had the rep because they was dressing in leather and looking like Rick James! We was just wearing Jeans and s---. Also Mel had that commanding voice. Lyrically, Mel is legit. Troy- So after those 3 Kings who would be the fourth best emcee out of all you guys during that era? My thoughts are between Dota Rock, DLB and Special K. Ice- To tell you the truth I always liked Dota Rock and Whipper Whip and the s--- they use to do. They could have been the best duo from the old school.

Troy- O.K. I have to say I am grading these emcees that have a story to tell, you know interesting long rhymes. Whip was cool also. What about female emcees? Ice- I love Lisa Lee but I have to go with the Queen Sha Rock. Troy- Well I have to go with Peeblee Poo. Ice- I hear you but I didnt get to hear her too much. Troy- I tell you what really helps me to hear all you guys is all these tapes I have. So the more I got the more I was able to hear all this beautiful stuff she was doing. Peeblee Pee has a lot of confidence as well when she is on the mic. Troy- Lets get back to Bams emcees. You have Sundance as number one. Second is Hutch Hutch, Ice- Right and I said Pow Wow is third.

Troy- Dont forget you have Kid Vicious and Donald Dee of the Funk Machine also. I would love to ask Donald Dee why those guys broke up, because they were very talented. Ice- Yes they were very nice. Troy- How in the world did Bam keep all you guys under control? Would Bams mothers house be crowded with all these groups? Ice- This was how I seen Bam handled it. He was the one that was in charge so he would put who he wanted to perform on the flyer. Everybody else would be a special guest which would of course help them to get in free. Bam would tell them they could spit if they wanted to, but for the most part the cats on the bill were the ones that would spit. And with the Soul Sonic Force even though some people in the group had routines with each other there really wasnt any order. Mr. Biggs had rhymes but he didnt stay on the stage much, he would say his and either mingle in the crowd or be on the door collecting money. Nobody messed with that big mother f-----! Troy- I heard Biggs was a nice guy.

Ice- He is. People talk about Zulu this and that and dont get me wrong every once in a while they use to beat on us to make sure we were tough enough but they were playing. I love Smitty, Crazy Mike, Phil and Ahmed. Man they use to take care of us. Troy- So would you guys meet in Bams house say the night before or the night of the party? Ice- You know something I have been to Bams house once or twice and it wasnt to talk about a show. Like I said about the Soul Sonic Force it was always an evolving group so we didnt really do routines. People basically came to hear Jazzy Jay play Bams records. Like I said there was no D.J. like Africa Bambaataa! Deep down inside I loved him to death but he wasnt really known for mixing or a scratching D.J.! But he could play the music. But with Jazzy, Africa Islam and all the other d.j.s man!!! In a battle with other D.J.s there was no way in the world Bam could lose. Because I dont care what you pulled out on wax, he had it and 10 more. Troy- So was there ever a time in Bronx River Center that you guys met Bam to talk about an up coming Jam? Ice- Yes there was a couple of times we sat down and talked about it. But I also remember the teachings that Bam had in there and I attended a couple of those. One thing I can say about Bam is he changed hundreds of young men and womens lives through the teachings. I loved Africa Bambaataa because he allowed me to be apart of the history of hip hop. First of all he took a gang that was terrorizing New York City and turned them into a musical force. And showed them we dont have to fight. He was like if you want to fight, break dance. So when people say Zulu was running aroundI am not saying they didnt do their dirt every once in a while (and on most occasions it was the wanna be Zulus) dont get me wrong! But Bam was teaching another way. He was on some knowledge of self, obtain wisdom and read. I liked to read any way so he would always tell me about these different books like What the history books dont tell you, and this and that. For me it was cool because it was interesting. It was amazing to me that through music he could unite. He had to have at least 5000 Zulus in some shape or form running through New York City. And everybody was basically on the same page. You had a few loose canons. But the way Denzel Washington in the movie Malcolm X

had his followers where he pointed his finger and they followed that was basically how he had it with the Zulu Nation. He was like, if

anybody steps out of line just squash them. Zulu Kings, Zulu Queens, his break dancers, etc, everybody fell in line. Troy- So did Bam teach the classes him self or were there teachers that stopped by? Ice- See this is what was funny it was never really a class. We would just sit around and talk. Somebody might say something ignorant and he would break it down to them. And see back in the day, I dont know how he might have reacted. But now he is talking about the Sun, the moon and the stars, 360. We might kick it in the center or right on the benches of the projects. I can basically say Bam saved the south Bronx! Because who knows what would have happened if the Black Spades and the other gangs would have kept on doing what they were doing. Troy- So Bam had an apartment in Bronx River or Edenwald projects? Ice- Bam had a lot of places. But the only thing he had more then records were cats. Troy- Cats! Ice- (Ice starts laughing.) Bam had cats all over the place I use to be like, yo Bam what up with the cats? But I went to one of his houses and seen like 40 to 60 crates of records, and he was still buying. I said you are the man. Troy- Alright Ice standing back and looking at Bam in the past how did he talk to these guys were he had people in check. I never heard he had to put his hands on any one but did he have a real rep for being a real killer killer back in the days before he shut it down and tried to become a peaceful man and try and lead people the right way? Ice- I am going to tell you like this as far as that part of him I didnt know Bam! My older sister knew Bam. Let me tell you in order for me and my brother to actually get down with Bam, Bam had to come to my house because my mother wasnt having it. We were like 16 and 17 and we had already been sneaking off. But for it to be official Bam had to come to our house and meet our mother. We knew Bam liked chocolate cake, so my

mother baked a real big chocolate cake. And this is how crazy my mother is.

Bam had on all white and he knocks on the door and comes in and introduces himself. My mother looks at him and says, What you selling ice cream! (We both laugh.) My mother was crazy like that. Bam bust out laughing! He said, No no! My mothers said come on in and sit down and lets talk. So he started telling her what he was doing with the music and he wanted me and my brother to be with him and etc. So she pulls out the cake and he eats it and he says, Man this cake is good. I guess what sealed the deal was when my sister came in. Bam knew my sister from James Monroe High School & the streets. My sister was a tomboy and she ran Soundview projects. She used to kick everybodys ass! (Troy busts out laughing.) Troy- Whats her name? Ice- Leona Heyward. She use to beat everybodys ass in Soundview. In Monroe high school nobody messed with her. I guess she knew Bam because when she walked in my mother says to Bam, Let me introduce you to my oldest daughter. When Bam turned around his smile went to a look of oh my God! She was like, Bambaataa? Bambaataa? Your name is Kevin Donavon! He was like how you doing Leona. She looked at my mother and said I know him hes cool. She said, Because he knows if anything happens to my brothers Im looking for him. Im looking at my sister now saying to myself, what the f--- is you doing! (Troy and Ice start laughing.) Yo my sister ran with Tupac

Shakurs mother. When ever Angela Davis was in town my sister and her also ran together. My sister use to date a Black Panther.

But my sister was that deep into the Black power movement. My sister had numerous rings and bracelets that she wore and she would knock a n----- out in a heart beat. Troy- Hows she doing today? Ice- Shes married with two daughters and she teaches dance to kids and senior citizens in the city. Shes mellowed, but she still lives by the I wish a n------ would! Troy- So your mother said O.K. to Bam! Ice- She said, yes you have them they are in your care. Then Bam says, I know you got some records around here. (Troy starts laughing.) Ice- Me being dumb and nave, and not thinking. I was like, yeah what ever, go on. My father passed but he use to work for New York City Parks Department and every other Friday when he would get paid he would come home with a bottle of Johnny Walker Red and a bag of 45s! He would have everything James Brown, Bobby Bland, Funk, Soul everything. So Bam raided the collection. My mom wasnt into any James Brown, she was into Nat King Cole and etc. My older sister was into her own music, and I wasnt going in the back room messing with her stuff. So I told Bam yeah you can look. This brother was pulling stuff out and I didnt care because I wasnt going to start playing any James Brown songs. We go to the party and Bam is playing James Brown and that s--was sounding good. Im looking at him like aint that a b----, and hes smiling like, gotcha Troy- (Troy is smiling.) Good stuff. Alright now there comes a time where you and some of the guys are tired of battling over the mic, how did the Jazzy 5 start? Ice- Well like I said earlier the emcees down with The Soul Sonic Force was Master Bee, Charlie Choo and me. We were already from Sound View. It wasnt we couldnt take it any more. It was more, Yo Jazzy, we want to do our own group and we will rap for you. Jazzy was like bet. He said what you guys want to do! We felt we could rap but we also thought we had the voices were we could also sing. In the beginning hip hop was just rap. But as it started going forward you had Raheim singing and a few other cats. (Caz,

Force m.c.s, Gangster Gee, Peso just to name a few also sang in hip hop.) But Raheim

was in all the ladies dreams. (Ice is laughing.) Troy- So Master Dee was the actual singer of the crew? Ice- Yeah we put Dee down to fill Sundances spot because he could rap, but he could really sing. Hed always have girls asking him to sing in the projects, so he was pretty popular in the hood in his own way. I would be the 2nd one singing. Troy- How long did it take for you to hear the Cold Crush, Funky Four, L Brothers etc being as you were way over on the east side of the south Bronx. How did you look at them oppose to looking at your Soul Sonic Force emcees. Ice- Back in the days there were battles and I got the chance to see Grand Master Flash and The Furious Four and they were doing routines. I got to see The Funky Four and they were rapping but they were also doing routines. I got to see a little bit of The L Brothers slash Fantastic 5. (Ice laughs before stating) I got to see a little bit of them but I wasnt traveling to far from the south Bronx! But I got a chance to see some of them and I thought, Yo they doing routines. And all we were doing with the Soul Sonic Force was everybody spit some rhymes. So me and Master Bee of Sound View would put together a routine and we would say, yo Bam put on this record or Jazzy put on that record and we would throw in our routine and everybody would be like o.k.! So after awhile because we couldnt get back and forth to Bronx River to be with Pow Wow and Biggs and the rest of them to put together routines or practice, we was like, we can still kick it with them but lets do our own thing. Because of Jazzy we were able to rock with the Soul Sonic Force. So because of Jazzy Jay we named our selves The Jazzy 4. But it was also because of the Jackson 5. We kind of patterned our styles to The Jacksons. Troy- Did you guys ever use routines from the Jackson 5? Ice- Yes we did, but after while one day we heard the Force M.C.s singing a Jackson 5 song in a routine and we said we knew we couldnt sing that any more. Them boys could sang! Troy- Do you guys know about another crew called The Jazzy 5? Ice- I heard a little something about them. Mr. Freeze got a round and he also heard so he mentioned it to us. But I only heard about them for a minute and I guess they just changed their name once they heard we was Jazzy 5 also. Plus I would not have be surprised if Bam or some Zulus showed up and said, yo yall not the Jazzy 5! And I

am not saying that is what happened but I would not be surprised. We have seen a flyer with them on it. Did they do the party, I dont know! Troy- Well I have two tapes with them. So they were official because they played with the big boys. But I guess they didnt have any staying power. So you have Master Dee and Mr. Freeze and then later A.J. Les. Ice- It was Charlie Choo, Sundance, The Master Ice and Master Bee who were the first members to start The Jazzy 4. Sundance quit. He was like forget you guys. He didnt want to put any routines together. He really wanted to stay solo so he left. Jazzy Jay was like, How you going to quit when this is your group? He was like f--- that I quit. We were like o.k we will find somebody. So we found Master Dee, and put on Mr. Freeze because he lived in the building across from mine and I use to always see him outside. He would spit and he was also a big mother f-----! He was so hyper, always jumping around, hitting somebody! I said you know something we need to put this crazy mother f----down with us just because you never know. But deep down inside lyrically he might have been the best of our crew. Troy- On the real I was wondering that. He was pretty nice. Ice- Yeah he was nice. I will say it was him then Bee. It was a toss up between me and Dee. And I would probably give the nod to Dee. Then me and then A.J. Les. We stayed together from 1979 to about 1983. Troy- Since the whole Jazzy 5 was from Sound View Projects you guys were pretty tight and your families as well, before and after that record came out? Ice- Yes we were all pretty tight long before that record came out because we all grew up in Soundview. My mother knew Dees mother. My mother knew Freeze mother because she lived in he next building. My mother knew Bees mother because Bee has a twin brother name Roland and so me and Sundance was tight with those two and our mothers hung out together when we were babies. When Charlie Choo was down my mother knew his mother also as well as A.J. Les. Now we were never close knit because everyone had their own interest. But we hung out after parties. We also went our separate ways, because we lived in Sound View, we did not always see or hang out with each other every day. Troy- Did the name A.J. Les come from the mens clothing store in Harlem A.J. Lesters? Ice- Possibly because his real name is Lester. Troy- Thanks because I always wondered that since I was in Brandies High school. Now how did you guys deal with religion was there any church goers in the crew?

Ice- I cant speak for every one else but from Holy Cross grade school to about the time I got to 10th grade I went to church every Sunday. Troy- So how did you do that being as you are partying on Saturday night? Ice- Like I said my man, up until the 10th grade. (We both laugh.) After that I would go sporadically.

Troy- How did your record Jazzy Sensation come about? Ice- We did a couple of shows and Bam was like, Yo you guys got it together. Troy- So you guys had it together before Soul Sonic and Cosmic Force? Ice- Yes as far the record is concern. If you listened to the tapes, Soul Sonic didnt really do any routines. They did a few with Globe but it was during and after our song came out, but I also think that we were the most ready to do a record at that specific time. Troy- There was a time where I got the impression Bam forced Soul Sonic to do something after Jazz Sensation jumped off. Ice- Well nah I wouldnt say he forced them. Troy- What I mean is a person that listens to Soul Sonic Forces routines before Planet Rock would not expect something so high powered as Planet Rock! So when you heard Planet Rock you would be like damn where did that come from?

Ice- Thats true but I guess the reason why it worked with those 3 guys was because

Globe was a good MC with a different style, Pow Wow was a very good MC and Biggs was more into getting the party started and go off into the crowd or get that money at the door. So I guess Globe and Pow Wow were most likely the writers. Musically Bam liked what we did. Bam liked what everybody else did too. But I knew that wasnt really Bam. Musically you go to a Bam party back in the days he would play anything from Punk Rock to Salsa to Merengue. Troy- So how did you feel about that music that Bam was playing?

Ice- Well I had no problem with it because it exposed me to so many different flavors of music. This brother was the master of records. Troy- I understand that but what I am referring to is was Bam keeping the melody through out the night and was the crowd standing up through the whole night dancing in that circle. Ice- Thats why it was fat, because it wasnt just black people at his partys. It was Spanish people, white people etc. Everybody was trying to get down. Troy- Caucasian people would come up to Bronx River? Ice- Yes every once and a while they would, and once we got down with Tom Silverman and them they would be up in there on the regular bases. Why do you think in its infancy Bam was the only d.j. that could play in downtown Manhattan. Somebody like Flash or Theodore couldnt go down there because they were cutting up hip hop break beats &

disco jams. Bam was playing Mambo Number 5, Bam would slam on Babe Ruth, Yellow Man, Kraftwork, and much more! Then he would play Gary Newmans Cars. And everybody was partying to it up in Bronx River Center. But dont get me wrong we didnt rap to that s---. But at the same token, other djs played what was on the radio. Bam was playing Trans Europe Express, Was Dog a Donut by Cat Stevens, who the f--would think to play that when it first came out! The list goes on and on. Bam was pulling s--- from every where. Im talking African beats, anything. So it got to a point where as we would be doing a party and I would have to go up to Bam and say, yo can you play Cant keep my hands to my self by T S Monk or can you play Before I let you go by Frankie Beverly. I would do this because Bam would not play anything that was being played on the radio at that time. So that was why his partys are different from everyone elses. As far as The Jazzy Sensation piece we did, Bam basically called us up on a Monday and asked us do we want to do a record! Being as we had an hour and a half to two of routines we said yes! Who wouldnt want to do a record! Bam said check this out the name of the tune you guys are using is Funky Sensation by Gwen McRae.

We told Bam we were familiar with the record she put out. He said he wanted us to write some lyrics to it and hook it up also. We said no problem. He said but basically they want you to add into the routine Can you feel it, my funky sensation! We told Bam were going to change it to Jazzy Sensation, just because the name of our group was the Jazzy 5. They said they didnt have a problem with that. Troy- So who were they?

Ice- It was Tom Silverman and his label Tommy Boy and this was the first hip hop song they ever produced. Now as far as the rest of the song we knew we wanted to do something that was going to get everybody on the dance floor. So all the ladies in the house, The Ladies the ladies that was the first part of the song, which was to get everybody up. After that basically the song was routines that we use to do. We just changed key words in it. Where we did our solos 4 bars each was a routine we use to do

also. Then we ran together a couple more routines. The solo parts we just put together because that was how we rapped. We never really had to say, yo Freeze whats up my mellow. I mean we knew we wanted to do it silently. We had x number of bars to do it. So I wouldnt say that was a routine. But it was two routines put together and we basically knocked it out in two takes. Bam told us on a Monday and that Wednesday night we were in the studio. The crazy s--- and you not going to believe this Freeze was not there.

Troy- Word, why not? Ice- Somebody dropped dime on Freeze and said they seen Freeze kill somebody on the subway! So they had Freeze locked up somewhere. Troy- What! Ice- Thats my word. If you listen to Jazzy Sensation closely the only time you really hear his voice is when hes doing his solos and then towards the end of the song when they let him punch in every once in a while. Also when you listen close enough his voice is little bit higher then ours. So as you now know his solo parts and the parts where he is supposed to come in and say this and that they added it in once he got out of jail. The second part of the song where it breaks down and you basically hear me talking Its Jazzy they basically told me, yo we like your voice so what we want you to do is play with the song. Remember what Gwen McRae says in the song. If I had it my way we would have been rapping on it. We really didnt think it was going to be on the record. We didnt hear the final cut before it came out. But basically they wanted me to say this and that and they would punch it in and we had fun with it. Then the next day came and Freeze put his part in. but when I heard Freeze part I told them I am not really feeling this. They said what are you talking about! I said I heard Shep Pettibones version of the Funky Sensation I am talking about the remix and he had a lot of hot sounds to it. So I told them they need to get him up in here. Our producer at the time was Arthur Baker.

Little did we know that Arthur Baker would become a giant. As well as Shep Pettibone who still does his mixes as well as being a giant in Rock music. I told Pettibone I need that sound you put in your Funky Sensation remix and he hooked it up. So now here comes Friday and we outside the building of our projects and we listening to Mr. Magic and let me not leave this out I didnt say anything to you about a contract right!

Troy- Right.

Ice- Yo that Friday night Mr. Magic played it. We were standing out side with all of our boys just laughing and joking and this and that and the song comes on. Everybody in the buildings of Soundview Projects is screaming, Yo yo your song is on, Jazzy 5 is on the radio!! Yo we were partying all over the projects! Then your hear Mr. Magic say thats the new joint by Africa Bambaataa and the Jazzy 5! We were like Africa Bambaataa and the Jazzy 5?! But we knew Bam was in charge, so we were like, yo it aint no problem, etc etc. Master Bees Cousin Michael ----- worked for MCA records, asked us a day or two later, So what type of contract did you guys sign? Dee was like, what contract? We didnt sign any contract. He was like you guys didnt sign a contract and the record is on the radio, oh hell no! So Bees cousin calls up Tommy Boy records the next day and Tommy Boy took the record off the radio in New York. But it still was on the radio on the outskirts of New York City. I am pretty sure some one was still playing it but I just didnt know about it. So Mike told them we needed a contract before they could continue to play it. Bam signed his contract earlier and I guess Jazzy signed his also. So when they finally gave us a contract I am looking at it and it said something like 5 to 10 years at 2 percent. I said hold the f--- up I go to school. Its 5 of us and they talking about we are suppose to split 2 percent! (It could have been a sign for 3 years with a one year options going up to 10 years something like that). I said I am not signing this. I am taking this to my mother. Master B didnt want to sign it either. It might have been one or two guys that said lets sign it but as a whole we finally agreed, nah man we aint signing this. We still did gigs but because we werent signed, we never received a penny. I heard that money made from Jazzy Sensation was used to fund Planet Rock. Troy- O.K. Ice- And till this day I have never seen a coin for Jazzy Sensation! Troy- Damn! Ice- Am I bitter? Not really because the way I live my life is to Live Love and Laugh! I cant worry about nothing I never had. If I actually had it in my hand and you tried to take it from me then I would try and kill you!!! Troy- I hear you. So let me ask you this somebody like A.J. Less or Mr. Freeze feel very unhappy with how Bam handled this? Ice- Well not necessarily Bam. I say that because I believe that Bam knew as much about the music business as we did.

Troy- Yeah but didnt he know that he couldnt sign his name with out talking with you guys and then all of yall signing together? Ice- Well I guess he figured we were going to sign. Also because it was first Africa Bambaataa and then The Jazzy 5! Bam was in charge and he did what he felt was right for him and the organization. We were looking at it from an individual standpoint. Also when we did the record we thought Jazzy Jays name would be on the record. Maybe even Red Alert but it was Africa Bambaataa and The Jazzy 5. Troy- So Jazzy Jay didnt get anything out of the deal. Ice- Remember, Jazzy was our dj, but we where all a part of the Zulu Nation. I really dont know who got what from Jazzy Sensation, but I know what we didnt get! Jazzy ended up signing a contract with Tommy Boy Records. See Bam was already signed to Tommy Boy but Bam couldnt rap! But he had rap groups within his organization. And I guess he figured theyre all down with me. I think if he did anything wrong he should have sat us down before and said look we got a chance to make a record so lets sit down and talk about contracts. And I say that meaning if he knew. I cant say he knew but I will say that I feel his intentions were for the best. I guess he figured once we did the song we would automatically sign a contract. So as far as Freeze, Les, or Bee, they never had beef with Bam! Our beef was with Tommy Boy. I know that on a couple of occasions Bee, Freeze and Les were ready to run up in Tommy Boy and the rest was not to be talked about. Deep down inside I think I can speak for all of us when I say we all had love for Bam. When Planet Rock blew up they took off. One or two members of the J5 might have said, yo man they could at least take us to open up for them. Troy- Well that was the next question I was going to ask you. Do you feel Planet Rock

should have been done by you guys? Ice- Nah, we would have never rapped to that. I can tell you that right now. Troy- Well there was no real rapping on it but you guys were the most organized or most talented of The Zulu Nation at the time. Ice- We had it planned our next record was going to be from another one of our routines. Either Dancing to the beat with Jazzy 5 emcees (Jackson 5 melody.) or the Inflation Poverty routine. Bam always wanted us to do that.

Troy- I know what you are talking about. Ice- Right so we had about 3 or 4 joints sitting their waiting for us. But once Planet Rock came out that s--- blew up. I too thought why not allow us to open up. But when I thought about it we were not down with Tommy Boy any way. How would that look we not signed with the man but we on the tour! So I looked at it as it wasnt meant to be. During that time I was still in school and I d.j.ed. and rapped a little bit after that. But I had no problem with it. I was just happy to be apart of it. Troy- So with the Jazzy Sensation it never played again on the radio in New York? Ice- It might have. Troy- I asked you that because I heard it also on the radio! Ice- Yeah well it might have played for a week or even two weeks. But once we couldnt come up with an agreement to the contract, it was like take it off. Troy- So after that the only other times it was played is when you guys would perform it at parties! Ice- Other D.j.s played it and deep down inside I cant say it wasnt played on radios after our decision. But somebody like Mr. Magic who didnt give a f--- I am sure continued to play it. But like the regular radio no! But it was being promoted heavily out side of New York. I say that because Tom Silverman wasnt stupid. He was like, I got this record I have to make money off of it. Its hot here in New York but they dont have ears outside of New York. Troy- So how did you get wind that it was being played outside of New York? Ice- Because we were doing shows that would be in Philly, New Jersey, Boston and we would hear about it as well as other places. So thats why I didnt feel any ill against Bam, because we did shows with Bam in time. Troy- So you guys did shows with Bam what about on your own? Ice- Well we did some with Bam but after a while Bam concentrated on Soul Sonic Force and Cosmic Force. Our D.J.s were Jazzy Jay and Red Alert. But we also had D.J. Holiday, D.J. Trick, the Rockzilla Crew was still doing parties, Cool Clyde & Lightening Lance spinning for us and doing parties. So that was who we did our shows with. So once again we did Philly, Boston, New Jersey and Connecticut on our own. As well as Harlem World with the record and battles with D.J.s and emcees before the record. We also did jams with D Train, GQ and others outside of hip hop. Troy- What about say Florida or Georgia?

Ice- We never really went that far but we know our song went that far. We did shows for a bout a year and a half to 2 years, but after a while it seemed as though we were black listed. Because it wasnt like we werent trying to do another record. Troy- So what gave you the impression that you guys were Black Listed? Ice- First of all we had a hot joint but we go to a label and they would say, Well not now! But we would listen to the stuff this label is putting out and some of it is slamming but some of it is garbage! So you trying to tell me we got a hot joint out but you dont want to sign us. I dont know if Silverman put the word out but I think basically because we never signed a contract with Tommy Boy we would get shot down before we got through the door. If you truly look at he rappers that came out during that timesay the

Funky Four, they got jerked! groups from that time got jerked. Troy- True story, you are exactly right.

Most of the

Ice- Like I said I was in school and I am not any ones dummy! I know that 5 into 2 percent dont sound right. Then you are taking travel, video, outfits and anything else out of our little 2 percent! Oh hell no. Troy- So did any one try and negotiate that contract to try and give you a deal that was better then that 2 percent? Ice- No but if he did I felt it would have been to late because first of all how are you going to diss me with some s--- like that. Because I am from the South Bronx Im some ignorant mother f-----. Money I went to catholic school for 12 years I can read and write count and do math! Troy- How did you guys get Shep Pettibone on there being as that was your first record? Ice- Pettibone came with Arthur Baker and Baker was with Tommy Boy so it was a package deal for us. Tom Silver man had nothing to do with it he just stayed in the back he was the business man. Arthur Baker is a white brother from Boston that had some

funk with him. He was the one basically playing the instruments, and I like what I heard. Shep was so talented I think it just took him about a half an hour do his parts. Troy- So correct me if I am wrong but is this an actual instrumental or did they take the record and loop it over and over? Ice- No they actually replayed the instruments. Troy- So just those two guys played all the instruments involved. Ice- Yo Arthur Baker is a bad brother. The original track might have had a drummer or a drum machine. But Arthur Baker was the one playing the instruments. Because all it was a bass line and some keys and a drum track. And then Shep came in and did what he did

and thats when I said o.k. thats what I am talking about. He speeded it up a little bit and added that sound that was different from the original record.

Troy- So Gwen McCrae record?

had no problem with you guys doing her

Ice- No and thats the thing we never had to worry about that because we never signed any contracts. If you look at the record Kenton Nix is the one that actually wrote the song for her. Troy- Did you guys ever tour with Bam and The Soul Sonic Force with their Planet Rock? Ice- To tell you the truth no, because when Planet Rock came out they were gone. But on the subject of that when I listened to it I said that s--- is faster then a mother f-----. But

when I am d.jing at a party the crowd would go bananas! It was like they put it out and two months later they were gone. And being as we didnt sign with Tommy Boy we didnt get a chance to go with them. And as far as that was concern there might have been a little bitterness. Not necessarily from me because like I said I was in school and ready to move on. Troy- So now its 1983 and you guys have broken up? Ice- Yes Troy- Was there an exact reason or you guys just slowly went your separate ways. Ice- Yes that would sum it up just about right. It wasnt any real problems inside the group. But each individual had their own life style. After awhile Master Bee went with his brother and they became The Russell Brothers and they put out on CBS Records The

Party Scene. Troy- That sounds good. Ice- Mr. Freeze did something in the studio too. He was working with Jazzy and Sun Dance on a few things. Master Dee and I hooked up with a brother name James and we started a singing group called the Jazzy Gents. I did most of the rap. We had two songs and we took it to Arthur Baker and Tom Silverman and they listened to it but I guess they was still looking at us as the Jazzy 5. We shopped that around for about 6 months and

when nothing happened I said, Yall be cool! But as far as The Jazzy 5 we all still remained cool to this day. Troy- So when was the last time you guys had a reunion. Ice- The last time we were on stage together as the Jazzy 5 was probably 1982, 83. Troy- You guys have sat on the park bench in Soundview together after that? Ice- Since 1985 it might have happen 2 or 3 times. A lot of that has to do with me leaving in 1985 to the Air Force. I have come back dont get me wrong but everybody is doing their on thing. I could always catch up with Dee because me and him were always the cool and we had similar interest. I will see Freeze sooner or later. I might see Les on the block. Catching up with Bee was and still is the hardest thing to do. We hooked up with Cool Clyde a few times in Soundview park for interviews in the past few years, and I got to see everybody but Bee at Sundances funeral. Troy- O.K. being as you are one of the true pioneers of Hip hop, how do you look at Hip Hop today? Ice- Well being as I come from the essence of hip hop deep down inside I would say 95 percent of it lyrically is garbage. Today I dont listen to radio. I d.j. and make my own CDs, so I listen to what I want to listen to. I appreciate where rap is now. And yes there is a difference between rap and hip hop. And there is a difference between a rapper and an emcee. After 1986 I think that is where it turned into rappers. Troy- Well there were still some good brothers in the early and late 90s but it seems as though once it got into the year of 2000 it seriously declined. Ice- Well I am not going to knock all of them. I guess its because I dont understand what they are all doing. But say some one like Nas I buy everything he does.

I like Common and Mos Def.

I have never really been a Jay Z fan but I will give him his props because he always had something for the radio and I am a d.j. so I am cool with that. I also like Talib Kweli. I like Kanye a little bit. I like that fact that when he wants to he can spit, and he is reaching the masses. He is not talking about shooting any one. Or I am selling this or I am selling that. I am not going to go out and buy Eminem stuff but I will listen to it. Because lyrically that boy aint know joke. But let me say this if you can do a 15 track CD you should at least give me 2 or 3 joints thats up lifting my people. I do a lot of music seminars and I am part of an organization called The Gate Keepers D.J.s. There are about 100 or so d.j.s, radio people, promoters, in the south and we are spread out and we try and promote new music. A friend of mine, DJ Colock put me on. I was invited to a music seminar. And they actually let me be on the panel. The guy that was introducing me (Greg Gates) knew me. Where I live at now in Florida there are about probably 10 people that know I made a rap record as well as know my history in hip hop. And thats because I dont run around tooting that. So now this guy is about to introduce me and says, Everybody get up! I was like what the hell is he doing. He says to the crowd, You dont realize you are sitting in the company of greatness; he is a pioneer of hip hop and one of the original MCs. Everybody was looking at me like who the hell is this. He said this brother rapped for Afrika Bambaataa and the Jazzy 5. And then homeboy actually played the song (Jazzy Sensation) for them. I said oh s---! Then he said put your hands together for The Master Ice! And they gave me like a 5 minute standing ovation. So I got to speak my peace on different things and I told them. I said you do 15 songs and I know you a gangster and you sell drugs but is that all you got to talk about, all you got to say? Look at Luda, he is going to have his Move b---- get out the way, or Im going to smack you songs, but he is going to have Mary J Blige on there singing Run away girl. So I said, give me 2 or 3 cuts with some real lyrics, something uplifting, or in some cases, TRUE! And also, All that damn cussing is unnecessary. I said if you are a true lyricist you should be able to come up with words beside those cuss words. Yall are using these words because you cant think. Half of these rappers are ex drug dealers that have not gotten pass high school so they dont have command of the English language. Other then that just be true to your self I told them. Because if you try and be a gangster or someone youre not, soon or later you are going to get called on it. Troy- Exactly Ice- I have a top 5 and my brother is not in it because he is my brother. And I am not putting them in any order.

Grand Master Caz Nas Rakim to me he is number one and you can write that down.

Tupac and

Biggie And if I could put a girl in there I would put Lauren Hill. Deep down inside I would probably put her before Biggie. And she only really had one CD. Troy- Wouldnt you more or less classify her as an R&B singer? Ice- Maybe but listen to her lyrics when she is rapping. When that CD first came out I dont think there were 3 guys out that could mess with her lyrically. Now she could sing that wasnt her fault. But lyrically go back to Shook Ones.

Troy- Alright let me do it like this. Today I have a couple of young boys that work on my job. One is about 21 and the other is about 25 years old. So I asked both of them what was there top 5 emcees but then it hit me I asked them what was there top 10 or 15 emcees? And I asked them that because it seemed as though they were struggled to say who their top 5 emcees were. But about 10 to 15 years ago there was like a top 20 of emcees. So I ask you Ice who is your top 5 of today? IceNas Common Scarface Wu Tang Jadakiss Troy- Well they never said Scarface but for them to say their top 5 took some time. Ice- Well they probably said Lil Weissy Troy- No, in fact they didnt even like Lil Wayne. Ice- Well I dont either. Troy- Yeah they dont even understand why Lil Waynes name is so hyped up. But Commons name was in there and Kanye West name floated up in there. And me my self I feel he is more production then lyrics. Some of those joints were nice little catchy tunes. But the first album was the monster for me. To be honest with you the baddest joint for me in this era was Lean Back by Fat Joe. And that is like damn near 4 or 5 years ago. And Nas joints are cool but Ice- But they are not for the club. Troy- Exactly and it did not rock the summer. Ice- Let me tell you I D.J. so when Lean Back came out that was a party anthem for the next two summers. Yo I love Nas but if I could sit down and talk with Nas I would say, Look who ever the hell is making your music fire their ass. I dont mind you spitting your knowledge but can you give me a real beat that I can play. I want to play his stuff in the club but you cant. Nas track be sounding like somebody took some pots and pans and spoons and forks and threw them s--- up in the air and when them s--- hit the floor that was his beat. Troy- (Troy laughs.) Yes but a lot of us give him credit because he brings back those old beats.

Ice- Well you right because when he did One Mic that was a classic for me.

I didnt have a problem with that. The problem was when did some s--- like You Owe Me. His beats try for that classic sound & samples, but classic sound for me is The Wu, or beats by Premo and some other cats. But I am feeling the cut on his CD called Black President which I would label classic. Then the Fox News joint is hot for me too. He got a joint on there with him and Buster basically describing pork and how your mother use to make it. Yo Nas aint no joke. Troy- From time to time do you still write for your self today? Ice- Every once in awhile I will sit down and I will hear something. I have a million and one break beats in my head from just being around Bam so its like I d.j. and I run a Boys and Girls Club team center and we have a music production studio. So I have kids that come in and work on computers and try and put there music together and sometimes when I see there work I say, You guys cant rap, dont let me pull out my pen. But I really try and help them out with melodies and hooks. I also try to get them to be more

musically and lyrically creative. Troy- I ask you that because Caz, Theodore, Mean Gene, Jazzy Jay and others are still doing jams in the park. As well as in the studio.

Ice- I know about the outside jams because I was there in August of 2006. Somebody told me Jazzy was out there and me, Les and Master Dee went out there and surprised him. He was ecstatic saying, Yo whats up! Herc and Bam were out there and a whole lot of others. I chilled for a while and left. But I came back again on another day because I heard the Cold Crush was going to be there. I dont have a whole lot of pride when it comes to saying those brothers knew how to put on a show.

I aint going to front I knew some of there routines by heart. So I bought my wife out there with me and she is from Biloxi Mississippi and she has never seen anything like this in her life. Mel, Herc, Bam took pictures with us. Everybody was like family. Yo it seemed like it was over 5,000 people in the park. Sure enough The Cold Crush Brothers ripped the show. They was up there for about an hour and I am singing all the routines, and my wife was nodding her head to it also. So now Caz and them leave the stage so I figure its over and we ready to leave because its pack and I wasnt about to get caught out there. So we start walking and I run into Bee and Freeze and they ready to leave also. We get half way out of Crotona Park and The Cold Crush comes back on, they went and changed and came back out for part two of the show. I looked at my wife and thought about it but said come on lets go because it was too crowded to go back in there. But the one thing about Caz that I always loved was he always knew he was nice and maybe he has mellowed with getting older but just as I was walking out the park he actually called all the old school cats up on the stage! And I hear him over the mic saying, I know I seen The Master Ice out there! Where the Jazzy 5 at?! Master Ice bring your ass up here! I looked at my girl I said we already out the park, I love him but dont worry about it. But Caz

called up all the old school rappers and I

guess there was some young cats that was making records now that was out in the crowd. Caz was like these are your pioneers and then he said this rhyme about the young wiper snappers. I still think to this day Caz can eat 95 percent of these rappers out today. Troy- Thanks Master Ice for taking us there! Ice- Thank you for allowing me to go there.

REST IN PEACE SUNDANCE FEB. 18, 1963 TO OCTOBER 13, 2008.

NEW YORK Daily News Medical examiner rules lung disease victim, Leon Heyward aka Sundance, a 9/11 death.
BY JOE KEMP and LEO STANDORA DAILY NEWS WRITERS Saturday, January 17th 2009, 2:12 AM

Leon Heyward aka Sundance of The Mighty Zulu Nation Leon Heyward was within spitting distance of the Twin Towers when they went down on 9/11. Rather than run, he left his rubble-strewn car and hustled to the Department of Consumer Affairs office on Church St., where he worked as an investigator and helped get handicapped co-workers out. Time passed, then the 45-year-old father of two got sick. He had trouble breathing, became delusional and suffered memory losses. On Oct. 13, seven years after that horrible day, Heyward died. Friday, the city medical examiner said he died of cancer he got from breathing in toxic dust at Ground Zero.

Heyward's sister, Leona Hull, 57, said the finding has vindicated her brother, but left her angry. "Some people thought he was faking, but he always said his medical problems were from Sept. 11," she said. After her brother started having seizures on the subway and on the job, he had to quit working, said Hull. "Then we were denied workman's compensation and had to fight even for disability. It was a struggle." She said her brother had to sleep with a breathing apparatus and took 40 to 50 pills a day near the end, but "he loved his work, so he thought he could get over whatever it was and go back." Now, she and a family lawyer are deciding what to do. "I'm sure this is just the beginning," she said. "There's a possibility we could be compensated. But my brother should have been compensated when he needed it. He shouldn't have had to worry about paying his health care or for a roof over his head." "But what's more important is that my brother's story be told," Hull stressed. "There were a lot of people that weren't first responders. There are a lot of people walking around sick for the same reason and fighting the same battle we did. "My brother stayed at Ground Zero and paid the price for staying." Ellen Borakove, spokeswoman for the city medical examiner, said Heyward technically died of "lymphoma complicating sarcoidosis." Heyward's is the second name to be added to the list in the years following the attacks. Officials in May 2007 also linked the death of 42-year-old civil rights attorney Felicia Dunn-Jones five years earlier to dust she inhaled at the site. The medical examiner has declined to make similar rulings in half a dozen other cases. lstandora@nydailynews.com

Troy L. Smith from HARLEM The Grant Projects. Shemar and Troy Jr. Daddy loves you very much. To read more stories like this about The Pioneers of hip hop go to www.thafoundation.com