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Turbo Tech: Generating Compressor and Turbine Maps


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spdracerut posted on December 20, 2011 00:00

I ran the sam e calculations for the turbine side. As you can see from this chart, it appears the turbine side is not quite as sensitiv e to error as the com pressor side; but the turbine side poses a greater challenge to m easurem ents in the form of heat.

The turbine side of the turbocharger deals with a lot of heat. Electronics and heat typically don't get along well together, go figure. Remember the pressure example of trying to measure a larger range (0-20 PSIA vs. 0-100 PSIA) creating a greater error? Well, instead of only having to measure 385 K temperature on the compressor side, we now have to deal with 1250 K on the turbine side (or hotter) making for a much larger range of operation. The high temperatures pose an even greater problem for pressure transducers as in I don't think there are any that can handle the temperature directly. Even the compressor outlet temperatures are too hot I think. So that means some type of thermal isolator needs to go between the compressor and turbine flows and the pressure transducers which probably means another potential source of measurement error. Hey, no one said getting the data for calculating turbo efficiencies was easy! Now you know the basics of what goes into creating compressor and turbine maps. It involves a test cell to house all the equipment and create an environment for controlled and repeatable tests. A gas stand within the cell is needed to generate the exhaust gases to spin up the turbo. Finally, you need a lot of highly accurate temperature, pressure, and mass flow rate sensors along with the associated datalogging equipment; the very high accuracy is required to minimize the error in the efficiency calculations which would otherwise become worthless with too much error. As you can see, creating the maps is difficult which is why only the major turbo suppliers have the ability to do it. In the words of Biggie Smalls, "pimpin' ain't easy."

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Comments
# Der Bruce Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:39 AM I think my brain officially overheated due to the inefficiencies of both my compressor and turbine side of knowledgeable digestion and regurgitation for use :p

# SkullWorks Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:27 AM too many words, dont post so much info for consumption before the coffee hour wow more than I needed to know about turbos Do you have access to a test cell I'd love to see what my 2868HPA compressor map looks like # Mr. T Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:45 AM WOOSH!!! that is the sound of this article flying past the top of my head

# silverbullet Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:10 PM nice revisit of thermal applications!

# sr20freak Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:22 PM uhhhh, huh huh, huh huh, uhhhhhh Beavis, what the hell did he just say?? I don't know butthead, but he did say Pimpin' aint easy. uhhhhh, what a assmuncher. But I still think turbos are cool. yeah, yeah, cool. ......nice write up Khiem, if I even don't understand Engineerese. # eccentric Tuesday, December 20, 2011 2:01 PM "You down with entropy? Yeah, you know me!" MC Hawking Thanks for the article, it cleared some stuff up! # Def Tuesday, December 20, 2011 4:30 PM What sort of temperature measuring equipment are you going to be using? The amplification part of thermocouple measurement is fairly accurate (on the order of that 0.1K guesstimate), but the actual TC calibration is typically +/- 2.5 deg F for commercial grade TC, and +/- 1.5 deg F for lab grade TC. You can get more accurate than this, but it gets ridiculously expensive in a hurry. Accurate pressure measurement is fairly easy, but the problem you'll likely run into is dealing with transient pressure conditions accurately with anything remotely affordable. Typically once you go over 1 Hz in the digital world you're looking at $$$. Note, you have to measure at least 5x to get resolution of what's happening in your desired time frame as a general rule of thumb. So you need a 5 Hz sensor to have an idea of what's going on if your pressure is cycling over a 1 Hz period (which is really slow). Typically anything with quick transients calls for 1 kHz sensors. These cost more than your house with high accuracy!

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The good news is that sensor heat concerns are not an issue at all. Just use some swagelok (or Parkerlok) 316SS fittings with a 1/8" NPT fitting on the turbo side, then run a length of maybe 12" stainless tube out to the pressure sensor. Done. Nothing will leak when put together properly, and it'll introduce no measurement accuracy issues as long as you're 90 degrees +/- 5 to a streamline (i.e. drill perpendicular to the casting and you'll be fine). I've done instrumented testing just to see if you'd get a "spring effect" from the column of air and there is none. The speed of sound is just so fast compared to your usual response time on a semi-steady state test that it's not an issue. You can't even see the noise with a nice 25 Hz sensor. # DaGou Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:09 PM Where do the socks go? But seriously the best part of is not your understanding but to be confident that Mr. D has total of the subject. Ergo he probably already has selected the most perfectest Turbo for his and mine project S2000. And for the rest of you I am sure he has turbonic tidbits to help you out. # spdracerut Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:05 PM @Def, I don't know what the labs use and I haven't seen the raw test stand data from mapping the compressor and turbine wheels. I have recently gotten some data from an engine stand and the resolution on the temperature is 0.01C, and pressure resolution is 0.01 mbar, so 0.00001 bar. On the gas stand for mapping, no issues with transients or pulsations as it's a constant gas flow. The data points along each speed line are taken during steady state conditions. I think they dwell at each point for roughly 8-10 minutes.

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