I don't know if Arabic lacks "modal verbs" or not.

It does lack exact 1:1 translations for words like "would," "should," and "could". I refer you to the other thread recently about "should have." "Would" as used in if-conditionals in English is accomplished by having more than one word for if, and using certain tenses. The Arabic verb exists in basically two tenses, but other times and modalities are accomplished by prefixes or particles, and negation as well has several particles to accomplish different moods and times. yajibu refers to something which is incumbent upon someone to do. This translates some of the senses of "should" in English. For "could" one must ask oneself, do I mean "Would be able to..." or do I mean "It would be possible that..." as "could" has different senses in English. Ability can be accomplished with the verbs and while probability can be accomplished with . As for would, this really depends on the context of the sentence involved. There is a "would of courtesy" (Would you be able to help me?), a "would of (unlikely) probability" (If I were/was rich, I would do such and such). There is would of contrary-to-fact (If I had done X, I would have done Y). There is "would of past iterative", (when I was young, I would go to his house every day). Etc. All of these are accomplished with different structures in Arabic. Of course in all of these cases there may be more than one way to say something in Arabic (just as there would be more than one way to say it in English). Last edited by clevermizo; 9th November 2007 at 7:01 PM. Reply With Quote 9th November 2007, 9:56 PM #3 *Sultana Junior Member Join Date Nov 2007 Native language Arabic Posts 5 Thanks Clevermizo for the useful information. Reply With Quote 9th November 2007, 11:08 PM #4 Josh_ Senior Member Join Date Oct 2005 Location the phrontistery

Native language U.S., English Age 34 Posts 4,206 I don't know what they're called in Arabic, but there are certainly those verbs, or verb forms, that are equivalent to English modal verbs -- modal of possibility; modal of probability; modals of necessity/incumbency; etc. I'll try to do more research and get back. "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." -- Noam Chomsky Reply With Quote 10th November 2007, 9:47 AM #5 clevermizo Moderator Join Date Apr 2007 Location St. Louis, MO Native language English (USA), Spanish Age 30 Posts 3,309 I think I can guess why it might be said that such verbs do not exist in Arabic. In English we can coordinate can/could/should/might/shall/may/would directly in front of non-finite verb forms. In Arabic all of the aforementioned structures in this thread would require subordination with + which is different from the English modal auxiliary structure. But honestly, the same result is achieved (modality modification), so it sounds like it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. In colloquial Arabic, words like ,, , pretty much work grammatically just like English modals, so they perhaps could be called such. However, again, the verb that follows is a finite verb form, whereas English uses non-finite verb forms. Also, all modal verbs in English have weird conjugation - no marking for singular 3rd person plural, and yet the subject is perceived as the subject of the modal verb itself: He should, He shall and never He shalls. It may be that modal verbs like this are specific to Germanic languages, or at least we don't find these words in Arabic. has an impersonal subject - the subject is not the same as what follows .

Last edited by clevermizo; 10th November 2007 at 9:52 AM. Reply With Quote 11th November 2007, 9:11 PM #6 *Sultana Junior Member Join Date Nov 2007 Native language Arabic Posts 5 Ok, I think I found the answer. Modal verbs do exist in Arabc; but most of the time you need to add a preposition to them; like : While in English you can simply say should; and it's actually wrong to add a preposition after a modal verb in (saying 'should to' is wrong); which is kind of what clevermizo said. It's a big discussion. But thanks guys.

Modals in standard Arabic

In English, modal verbs include "can," "may," "might," "must," "should," and "would" verbs that are not conjugated or negated in the same way as regular verbs. Standard Arabic doesn't have exact equivalents of these verbs, but it has words that are used in much the same way including phrases beginning with . Here's a list (all of these are followed by imperfect-mood verbs, although if you remove the ,you can follow them with a :) ( yajib an) 3( ala + object + an) ( min al-laazim an) ( min al-waajib an) must, should must have to, it is necessary to it is necessary to

( min aD-Daruuri an) it is necessary to ( yanbai an) should ( min al-mafruuD an) should ( min al-muftaraD an) should, ought to ( yumkin an) might, may ( min al-mumkin an) it is possible to ( min al-mustaHiil an) it is impossible to ( min al-mutawaqqa3 an) it is expected that ( min al-muntaZar an) it is expected that ( min as-sahl an) it is easy to ( min al-yasiir an) it is easy to ( min aS-Sa3b an) it is hard to ( min al-jadiir bid-dikr anna) it's worth mentioning that ( min at-taabit anna) it's well-established that ( min al-ma3ruuf anna) it's (well-)known that ( min al-waaDiH anna) it's clear that ( min al-mafhuum anna) it's understood that ( min al-murajja3 an) it's most likely that ( min al-muHtamal an) it's probable that ( min al-muqarrar an) it's been decided that ( min al-muttafaq 3aleihi an) it's been agreed that ( min al-mu3taad an) it's customary to ( min al-mustaHsan an) it's preferable that ( min al-aHsan an) it's better that ( min al-ajdar an) it's more suitable/proper to ( min aT-Tabii3ii an) it's natural that ( min al-mamnuu3 an) it's forbidden to ( min al-masmuuH an) it's permitted to

To shift to the past, add (kaan) before the phrase. To shift to the future, add (sayakuun) beforehand. For negation, add (laysa) before it. Examples: ( hal yajib munaaqaat qaDaaya mitl al-kaarita l-insaaniyya fii burma fii majlis al-amn?) Should issues like the humanitarian disaster in Burma be discussed in the Security Council? ( " " fiilm iiraani 3an itiyaal as-

saadaat min al-mutawaqqa3 an yatiir aDab al-miSriyyiin) An Iranian movie about Sadat's assassination is expected to anger Egyptians (lit. excite Egyptians' anger). ( haadihi lmukila min al-mumkin an tataHawwil ila Zaahira ida lam tuwDi3 liha Huluul munaasiba wa-jidriyya) This problem may turn into a phenomenon if appropriate and radical solutions for it are not found. ( min aT-Tabii3i an yafraH al-muwaaTin, ayya muwaaTin, laday ru'yatu jeian ariiban yansaHib min arDu) It's natural for a citizen, any citizen, to rejoice at the sight of a foreign army withdrawing from his land. ( ida lam nastaTi3 tajaawuz al-inqisaamaat daaxil al-mujtama3 alfilasTiini fa-sayakuun min aS-Sa3b jiddan taHqiiq taqaddum fi mawDuu3eiyy azza wa3amaliyyat as-salaam fil-waqt nafsu) If we can't overcome the divisions within Palestinian society, then it will be very difficult to achieve progress in the issues of Gaza and the peace process at the same time.

Modals in Egyptian Arabic

Egyptian Arabic uses many of the same modals listed above, but without the . ... Usually they are followed by an imperfect-tense verb. (laazim) must, have to (Daruuri) must (il-mafruuD) should (mumkin) can, it's possible (mustaHiil) it's impossible (yemkin) perhaps (gaayiz) may, it is possible that (sahl) it's easy to (Sa3b) it's hard to (mamnuu3) it's forbidden to (masmuuH) it's permitted to

There are also modals that are active participles. Remember that all active participles act as adjectives, and thus have masculine, feminine, and plural forms. 3( - - aayiz - 3ayza - 3ayziin) want to ( - - naawi - nawya - nawyiin) intending to '( - - aa3id - 'a3da - 'a3diin) continuing to 3( - - ammaal - 3ammaala - 3ammaliin) continuing to

There are also modals that you attach a pronoun suffix to: (nifs-) '(aSd-) (zamaan-) (tann-) ( ya reit - suffix optional) to feel like to mean to must have - indicates something happening at the proper or expected time continuing to wish

Again, to shift to the past, add (kaan) before the phrase. To shift to the future, add (haykuun) beforehand. For negation, add (mi) before it. Examples: ( kaan laazim tifakkar fel-mawDuu3 'abl ma taaxod qaraar) You should've thought about it before you made a decision. ( il-mafruuD innena kollena ni'Di wa't kwayyis) We should all spend our time well. ( makan 'aSdi adaayi'ak) I didn't mean to annoy you. ( ya reitni mafataHt sidri witkallemt bi-'alb gaamid) I wish I hadn't talked so openly and bravely. ( zamanha gayya) She ought to be coming (soon now). ( zamaanak gu3t)

You must be hungry by now. ( kaan zamaan kulle Haaga xilSit law kunti sa3idtiini) Everything would've been finished by now if you'd helped me. ( nifsi asaafir libnaan) I'd like to travel to Lebanon. ( nawya aSHa badri) I intend to get up early. ( il-balaawi 3ammaala titHaddif 3aleina) Troubles keep on befalling us. ( il-3arabiyya l-kaHyaana di 3ammaala tkoHH fi wesT i-aari3) This beat-up old car keeps coughing in the middle of the street.

The passive participle in Egyptian Arabic

Introduction Derivation of the passive participle

Introduction

Passive participles, like active participles, act as adjectives, and so they must agree with the noun they're describing. A passive participle may express a current state of being; a couple of examples would be "known" and "understood." Or it may express a state of having been the result of an action that has already been performed. Examples would

be "written" (i.e. the item is in a state of already having been written) and "cooked" (i.e. the item has already been cooked). Use of the passive participle obscures the identity of the person who performed the action.
( mumassil ma3ruuf) ( beiD ma'li) a well-known actor fried eggs

Derivation of the passive participle

Passive participles are derived in different ways from their root verbs. However, if you know the type of verb you're working with, deriving the passive participle from that verb is quite regular.
Type of verb Form 1 sound verbs (of the type fi3il) (katab) to write (fihim) to understand Form 1 geminate/doubled verbs (of the type fa33) (Habb) to love (kabb) to spill/pour Form 1 defective verbs (of the type fi3i or fa3a) (awa) to grill (nisi) to forget Passive participle (maf3uul) (maktuub) written (mafhuum) understood (maf3uu3) (maHbuub) beloved (makbuub) spilled/poured (maf3i) (mawi) grilled (mansi) forgotten

Most other triliteral verb forms (kassar) to smash (itxarrag) to graduate (ixtaar) to choose (istaxdim) to use

Substitute "mi" for the "yi" of the imperfect howwa verb conjugation* (mikassar) smashed (mitxarrag) (a) graduate (muxtaar) chosen (mistaxdim) used

* Educated Egyptians often pronounce this "mi" as "mu" due to influence from standard Arabic see the pronunciation "muxtaar" (as opposed to "mixtaar") as an example. Note: For verbs that are not of Form 1, the active participle and passive participle are usually exactly the same! You would use context to tell which it is.
(miHtall) This could be the active participle, "occupying," or the passive participle, "occupied."

You might also have noticed that hollow verbs were not included in the above table of passive participle derivations. This is because passive participles are not used for these verbs. Rather, you would derive a passive participle from the verb's corresponding passive form (which would generally begin with it-).
(baa3) to sell This has no passive participle. So you would instead use the verb: (itbaa3) to be sold From this you would derive the appropriate passive participle, (mitbaa3), "sold."

But also note that aside from passive verb forms of hollow verbs, you do not usually use passive participles derived from itfa3al verb forms except, in some cases, if you want to distinguish between a passive and active participle that would otherwise be the same.
(dalla3) to spoil The active and passive participle of this verb is the same: (midalla3) So people will use only in its active participle sense. For the passive participle, they use: (mitdalla3) spoiled, as in a spoiled child

(rabba) to raise or grow (as in a parent raising a child, or someone growing a plant) The active and passive participle of this verb is the same: (mirabbi) So people will use only in its active participle sense. For the passive participle, they use: (mitrabbi) well-raised

But usually for passive verbs, you would derive a passive participle from the corresponding Form 1 verb.
(itkatab) to be written This has no passive participle. So you would instead use the corresponding Form 1 verb: (katab) to write From this you would derive the appropriate passive participle, (maktuub), "written." (itkasaf) to be embarrassed This has no passive participle. So you would instead use the corresponding Form 1 verb: (kasaf) to embarrass From this you would derive the appropriate passive participle, (maksuuf), "embarrassed

The conditional sentence in Egyptian Arabic

Introduction Possible conditionals Impossible/counter-to-fact conditionals Examples - for comparison of the two kinds of conditionals

Introduction

There are two types of conditional statements: the possible (If you work hard, you'll do well; if I see Samia today, I'll ask her out) and the impossible/counter-to-fact (If I were rich, I'd buy a Mercedes; if I'd known that, I wouldn't have done what I did). There are two main words for "if" in Arabic: (law) and (ida in fuSHa/iza in 3ammiyya). (And there's also the more literary/classical ).In standard Arabic, is reserved for possible conditions, while is used for impossible conditions. In Egyptian Arabic, however, the two words are usually used interchangeably, with being more common.

Possible conditionals
The "if" clause may begin with or ,followed by:

possibility 1: a verb in the past tense or with only a verb in the present tense ( iza oft aSHaabi) if I see my friends

( law tiruuH is-senema bukra) if you go to the movies tomorrow

possibility 2: some form of paired with a verb, participle, modal, or nominal or prepositional phrase ( iza kunte tiHebbe tiigi) ( iza kunte faaDi) if you'd like to come if you're free

( iza kunte 3aayiz tiigi) if you want to come

( iza kaan 3andi l-wa't) if I have time

( law kaan mumkin) if it's possible

The "then" clause may begin with a future-tense verb or command.

( hatkallem ma3aahom) I'll talk to them

( ta3aala ma3aaya) come with me

Examples:
( iza zakirte kwayyis, hatgiib daragaat 3alya) If you study well, you'll get high grades. ( law ofte Dina n-nahaarda, ha3zemha 3ala l-3aa) If I see Dina today, I'll invite her to dinner ( law tiruuHi s-senema bokra, haagi ma3aaki) If you go to the movies tomorrow, I'll come with you. ( law kan da osluubak, matiz3ale iza makallemtake taani) If that's your way of doing things, (then) don't get upset if I don't talk to you again.

( law kunte 3aayiz tiigi ma3aaya, yalla nruuH) If you want to come with me, then let's go. ( iza kunte tiHebbe ti'3od, itfaDDal) If you'd like to sit down, then go ahead. ( law ig-gaww kwayyis, yalla ninzil wa nitmaa) If the weather is nice, let's go down and take a walk. ( law itfarragt 3ala l-film da, hatHebbu) If you watch this movie, you'll like it.

Impossible/counter-to-fact conditionals
Again, the "if" clause may begin with or .It is usually followed by the appropriate form of .What follows that may be a past- or present-tense verb, modal, or active participle.
( law kunte oftu) ( law kunte bitHebbeni) if you'd seen him if you loved me

( law kunte faakir) ( law kaan mumkin) if I('d) remembered if it had been possible

Note that, as with the last example, this clause may be identical to its "possible" equivalent. What really distinguishes possible from impossible conditionals is the following:

The "then" clause must begin with an appropriate form of !It is then followed by a past-tense verb, if you are talking about something you would/wouldn't have done, or a simple present/future-tense verb if you're talking about something you would do (right now).
( kaan geh) he would've come

( \ kunt a'ollak/ha'ollak) I would tell you

Examples:
( iza kunte zakirte kwayyis, kunte gibte daragaat aHsan) If you had studied well, you would've gotten better grades. ( law ma3aaya filuus, kunt ishtareit 3arabiyya Mercedes) If I had money, I'd buy a Mercedes. ( law kan mumkin aruuH ma3aak, kunte roHt, laakin ana kunt mauula) If I could've gone with you, I would've, but I was busy. ( law kunte 3arfa inne da hayeHSal ba3de maxrug, makunte xaragt) If I'd known that would happen after I left, I wouldn't have left. ( law makunte enta 'oltili, kaan Hadde taani 'alli) If you hadn't told me, someone else would've. ( law kunt bitHebbeni, makunte 'olt illenta 'oltu) If you loved me, you wouldn't have have said what you said.

( law ig-gaww kan kwayyis, kunna roHna l-blaa) If the weather had been good, we would've gone to the beach. ( law kunt itfarragt 3ala l-film da, kunte Habbeitu) If you'd watched this movie, you would've liked it. ( law makunte niseit telefooni l-maHmuul, kunt raddeit 3ala l-mukalma beta3tek) If I hadn't forgotten my cell phone, I would've replied to your call.

Examples for comparison of possible and impossible conditionals

( \ law la'eit/alaa'i l-gawaab, ha'ollak) If I find the answer, I'll tell you. ( law 3etert 3ala l-gawaab, 'olli) If you come across the answer, tell me. ( law kunte 3arfa l-gawaab, kunt 'oltilak) If I'd known the answer, I would've told you. ( law kunte 3arfa l-gawaab, kunt ha'ollak) If I knew the answer, I would tell you. ( Hatta wa-law kunte 3arfa l-gawaab, makunte 'oltilak) Even if I'd known the answer, I wouldn't have told you.

( Hatta wa-law kunte 3arfa l-gawaab, makunte ha'ollak) Even if I knew the answer, I wouldn't tell you.