Michael Gargiulo: Part 3 Transcript of "Perkins Operation"

Transcript*Time*09:45* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:33*pm*
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D and, uh S D
-- I asked him not to send me to
State. And, uh, hes gonna recommend that, uh, I do a County lid. Ah Does he have is she gonna press charges? Or, you know, You know what, dude? It doesnt matter. It doesnt fucking
gonna cooperate and all that? matter. It Im telling you, dude. The fucking man-haters of the world, S D Yeah, well
And it doesnt matter. Once she makes those allegations, its <Cough>
over. So, you can I dont know if you can pick apart the charges or not. D D violation. S D S S I dont think so. <Clear-throat>
Yeah. If you get that, dude, Id take it and run.
know, some trustee job up at D
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Yeah. Ah
-- Wayside or something. <Cough/clear-throat> Any girl could express that I was never into their boobs. ***. <Cough> They are grabbing at straws there. Could be, man. Theyre just saying
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I am. Ill take it. Ill take a year. Hopefully I can do it, you
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But, I think I can probably get it to where its just a probation
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uh, have put put this shit together.
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D G D G D
Yeah, how many guys like big But, Im not into women like that, man. It doesnt matter what kind. Doesnt matter what kind.You Maybe I like em for what they are. Yeah, like talking to em. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough>
boobs? If you got two or three *** boobs.
like them for, uh
G D
How could they involve the media in the courtroom? You know what, brother? I dont know. Ill tell ya, I dont
know. Thats gonna be an interesting deal for you, because, uh but, there and they say Were looking for any witnesses. Now, we think this G D G window. D night? Theyre talking about an old guy, if he witnessed me going in Yeah.
there that night,
He didnt he just went and said that he witnessed me
knocking on the window and knocking on the door or checking in the
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witnessesed me looking in the window and knocking on the door. <Cough/clear-throat> G I think theyre full of shit, though. He picked me out of a photo line-up, because I lived there and I used to talk to him all the time.
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I dont know. I dont know. And you say it wasnt even at Of course, man. He just said *** he just said he
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is the guy. Anybody that knows anything about this guy, uh, ***. Yeah.
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this the only thing I can think of, youve seen it when detectives get up
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Transcript*Time*09:49*
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D G D G D points ***.
Yeah. How come they didnt come and Yeah. Theyre making shit up.
Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:37*pm*
haul me in before, if thats the case?
He recognizes you. You live there. Uh, if you if you
caught if they caught you looking in the window, who the fuck cares? Shes a friend of yours. You know, youre wondering if shes home. If your booties, you know, are in her house, and its got your DNA on it, so probably blood everywhere. D G what? You gave her something. If its got blood on it, hey, theres <Cough/clear-throat>
You could make up any number of stories. A jury will buy it. Yeah.
But, again, you need to do the heavy lifting for your attorney. <Clear-throat> D
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road ahead for me. <Unintelligible background noises> D G Yeah. Yeah, youre probably right, man. You know how the How the fuck am I gonna get that type of money man?
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courts just a mess.
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<Unintelligible background noises> Oh, man. As soon as I can get out, *** until after Christmas. <Clear-throat> You know, Im not getting out they said its gonna be a long
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<Clear-throat>
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Yeah, thats *** but like we talked about. You can explain all
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<Unintelligible background <Cough>
Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:40*pm*
Ha, Im just wondering if you even need to I mean, it
sounds to me like you got things *** out. You got an explanations for youre gonna have to worry about is, if they got some kind of evidence G D If they what?
If they have evidence that you dont know about and theyre <Cough>
not telling you, then, you gotta worry.
were talking about another alternative uh, a different story? Cause
Fuck that Boston cap is weird, cause I gave her a cap like
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you know, if theyve got something like, uh, -- uh, your blood
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Yeah.
If it was laying in her room? Yeah. Did she ever put it on? <Clear-throat> I dont know, man, she ***. *** Its got her fucking hair on it. <Unintelligible background noises> Thats a good way. Im trying to think of what else they could
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that when I first met her. Of course, she would have it. Theyre so full of
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<No audible response>
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And thats what Im saying that, you know remember we
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that you dont know about. Right?
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everything. The only thing the only Ill tell you what. The only thing
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inside, or G D G D G D G D D G D G D D They dont have my blood anywhere in that crime scene. Right ***. Cool. Or like any ***. *** DNA? Yeah. <Cough> known that how long did you know her? Like a week. <Sigh>
Man, of course, my DNA is gonna be in there, anyway, dude.
Any anywhere you go, man. How long have you
hopefully, your DNA is all over that joint. Two or three times. Two or three times? Yeah. Itll be all over the place, dude. Thats probably what
theyre holding back. You know, those guys never play everything. They always have an ace card.
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The witness that seen me go in there Okay. Well, of course. Thats true. Yeah. Did they say when that was? Uh-uh. Okay. You know, if it was that same day, they would have came to
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Oh, okay. So, you were over there quite often? Or Hopefully
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Transcript*Time*09:55* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:43pm*
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my place right away. D Yeah. But, maybe, you know, -- like maybe other people <Clear-throat> G No, he identified me at the time that it happened or whatever <Cough> G G <Cough> the case may be *** went there, too.
Dont you think the jury would be like, Wait a second. How
come they didnt say you didnt arrest him earlier that if you witnessed him go in and out that day it happened? D G D G G Yeah. Exactly. <Sniff>
You know, cause I wasnt there the day it happened.
Man, theyre playing me for stupid. They can arrest me and charge me with everything, man. <Unintelligible background noises> I can answer all their questions. Thats cool. <Water flow> <Clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> <Yawn> <Flush-toilet>
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Theyre gonna do whatever they want, anyway like my mom always said.
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<Unintelligible backgound noises>
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Like what they are trying they are trying to ***.
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I can answer any one of their
questions in front of an attorney. I dont care. Theyre gonna have nothing to arraign me on. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> G D G D G And theyre gonna arraign me anyways a bootie and a hat. Yeah, especially, in the same complex. That aint shit. And I can easily say that Ive been there. Of course. Yeah.
you knew the girl. So, fuck it.
I love how the detectives talk so high about people. I dont
notice women like that. But, I dont look at women like that. It doesnt matter to me. D D G D G D Yeah. <Clear-throat> Yeah.
Is that how they were coming at you?
her like that, man. We just started talking and shit, you know.
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day. And she was like Come by again tomorrow. And my fricking girlfriend would get jealous, cause she was pregnant. Grace was a nightmare. <Sniff> <Clear-throat/cough> G Like Go fuck her. ***. I said What? Im with you. Why
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. <Clear-throat> I helped her carry in the groceries and then, the laundry one
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She had a big bust, whatever. I mean, ***. I never even saw
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You know, so, they try to put it on the the whole tit thing?
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are you jealous? And the girl would tell me about her kids and everything. How in the fuck can I would I know all that where she worked? How the fuck am I gonna know all that, man? Im not the person who knows it. And their acquaintances sit and talk with you? youre a suspect. G was friends with them and Im the one that did it. <Sniff> G D D Yeah. Yeah, just because youre friendly doesnt mean
-- Theyre trying to link everything on my ass, man. Fuck, even if you did it, those fuckers are grasping at straws.
saw you do shit. Its all circumstantial. me right away. D D <Cough>
Oh, you youd be in the bucket, man. Its all circumstantial. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 10:01-10:02> <Sniff> <Cough> If theyre gonna arraign me ***-- take me to trial, why would I dont know. <Cough/clear-throat> Hey, uh, those booties you had outside the door, man, your
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they want to still talk to me?
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Cause cause, if they did see me, they would have arrested
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You got *** explain every fucking thing away. Nobody saw shit. Nobody
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Well, according to all these people that died. Theyre saying I
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neighbors would say that happened, right? G D G D G girlfriend. D G D problem? G D D know. G D D D G G Okay. <No audible response> That you always had booties out there? Well, even my ex could say that, cause we always had to Okay. On the outside is what Im talking about *** see.
wear booties in the house. Yeah, of course. And I left them all over the place. Even my
Thats a fact my wife now could even say that too that I Thats good. Have you had fuck have you ever had a <No audible response> <Sigh>
leave them outside.
Hopefully, theyveha--given you--they told you what they They said they had a lot of other physical evidence. They said that? Mmnh-mmnh. Did they tell you what it was? Yeah, it could be my hair and shit *** physical evidence. Yeah. Yeah, it would be inside the house. If you ever were <Clear-throat/cough>
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in there, then, ***. G They tried to scare me with the hat. Theres no way. Unless
they pulled it unless they put that hat on me,

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Yeah, I dont think you need my help on this one, man.
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D G D G D G knows? D G D G D G D G D D G G D G D
Uh-huh -- And they pulled it out of the garbage, theres no way they Well, who knows where that came from? But, you know I gave her a Boston hat. I yeah.
would have found that hat. what? Maybe they found it in the house. You said you gave it to her. Is that the hat? So, when you showed they showed you.
Wait a minute. You gave her the one you were wearing? I dropped it off the next day. I was wearing a hat. Shes like Oh, I see.
I love that hat.
She touched it. And I said I got another one. You want it?
might have
Theres no way they found that hat in my place with her blood Right. Oh. Oh, oh, oh. A brand new hat. You gave her a hat. Was it brand new? Yeah. Okay. So, -And the hat they had was brand new. It was a resemblance Is that what it was? <No audible response> Okay. So, you think that hat they showed you was not the
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of mine. They took it from my place, likely , to try to scare me.
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on it. Theres no way in hell. Thats what theyre trying to say.
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So, if they found it in your place, you can explain that? She
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Its not the hat I wore, man. I may have wore it once. Who
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one that you gave her? G D G D G D D Who knows? They can lie and change things around. Like Yeah. Cause they knew I liked to wear a Boston hat. Man, theyre Uh, yeah. Be nice to know what they have though. Well, Ill find out at the arraignment, right? <Clear-throat/cough> they could find one in my place.
Yeah, I think. I dont know if they have to give up everything. Usually, when you get an arraignment, you just walk in there
and and they read the charges against you. And the judge asks you God, the, uh the, uh uh, preliminary preliminary hearing. Huh. <Unintelligible Background noises/voices> D But, think about, uh, saying cause if they if you find out they got other evidence, uh, thats put you inside, then, youre gonna need a fucking story. G D D D G D G G
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Evidence, like what, man ? I dont know. They *** all that. I dont know. Ive been inside the house. Yeah, yeah. I I understand that. My point is, you know What else could they have, besides the hair? I dont know. I dont know. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time
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Then, its your attorneys job-- to find out what they have.
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how you plead. And then, after it, then, they set a date for, uh, -- what?
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fricking sheisters.
Transcript*Time*10:18* Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:06*am*
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10:08-10:18> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough> <Beep> <Water flow> Oh my God, Im freaking tired. Yeah. <Cough>
They woke me up and took me out at eleven oclock. They Mmnh. <Beep> <Clear-throat>
said they were talking to my daughters mom.
See, my daughters moms not a good witness, cause she She did? What the fucks that all about? A DUI accident. <Clear-throat> Oh. Thats not -- Thats not gonna be good for her. What? Yeah, thats not gonna be good for her. Not gonna be good for her in what way? Well, its a manslaughter charge. Are you gonna take the Yeah, that doesnt mean shit. She she was the witness for Yeah.
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word of a manslaughter person? You know? that I was home. She can lie and say I wasnt.
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was in jail for five years for killing two people.
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*** no, shes not credible. <Beep>
Hmnh-hmnh. But, she could be shes on the District Attorneys side. D D G G D D G D Thats what I mean, you know-<Cough> Man, ***, <Cough> -- Shes seeing a psychiatrist. <Beep> -- If shes got that kind of background.
Yeah. ***. Youve got nothing to worry about there. So, they said that they they said they had other fucking, Hollywood station too was trying to nail me for shit.
trying to, you know, put all the similar type <Clear-throat> G D whatever. G D G D G D -- Murders and say you did it? Theyre all different. But, theyre trying to link them to me. Oh, okay. Well, if its DNA or if its people seeing you or Another one they tried saying I was doing it or did it. Uh-huh. And I was on the phone with my girlfriend, at the time it Oh, is that right? Yeah. I told them, Check the phone records. Do you
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happened.
understand? I was at home, on my home phone.

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You think it was like what were talking about, like theyre
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uh, murders that theyre gonna try to link to you?
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Transcript*Time*10:21* *Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:09*am*
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You have no worries there. Two of them. The one from fourteen years ago. Uh, two. <Clear-throat>
They said they had my blood there. ***. G Thats common. I used to uh, my blood and skin *** all <Unintelligible background noises> <Clear-throat> D G that what did they say they had on you? Blood?
So, it was from fourteen years ago, and they two you said They said they had my blood under the persons nails. And I <Unintelligible background noises>
said Well, -- or my skin under their this persons nails. G I said, Thats common. I knew the person. They all
<Unintelligible background noises> they put all the heat on the brother. And then, they started coming after me. Im telling you, it was his fault that his sister *** <Clear-throat> -- It was his fault that ***. <Cough> You think he did it, huh? No, I think he pissed someone off. Oh. There was no one near us. So nothing to do with me.
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G D G D G
Nothing to do with him.

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See that case, man, from many years ago strange cause
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they had to do was give me a hug. And I Ive seen the person all the
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over the place ***I Ive known the family for fricking my whole life.
Transcript*Time*10:22* Real*Time*June*18,*2008*12:10*am*
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D case? G D G D
Whatever happened with that Its still going on. Oh. Now, they have a wanted thing for me out there. <Sniff> <Unintelligible background noises> They do?
Yeah. They said theyre gonna be taking me to the Downey
station after this arraignment. And then, theyre gonna be taking me to Hollywood station and try to charge me for all the different cases. D G D G D G Uh, theyre gonna make you the, uh, scapegoat. The what? <Clear-throat> <Cough>
The other ones that they told me, uh cause theycause-uh Yeah.
questioned me, and then, let me go. Now, all of a sudden, theyre gonna
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charge me? D Yeah. You did good back then. No, I told them the people I knew them. What the hell? Just G
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cause I know someone, youre youre trying to and those detectives were like Youre a killer. <Chuckle> G Yeah, right?
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They have two detects detectives together. They
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detective was on my tail.
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Theyre gonna make you the scapegoat.
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D G D
Yeah, you can tell, man.
Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*12:12*am*
Are you guys trying to pull my chain? What the hell am I The, uh all the you know, uh, on on the cases that
gonna do that stuff for? theyre Theyre trying to pin on you, how many of them, uh, do you G D G D G G D G Strippers? <No audible response> Then, it could have been anybody. <Clear-throat> <Cough> Yeah.
Theyre just trying to see a pattern --
-- Wth my DNA there and the people died. Out of eight of them that died *** my DNA was there, cause
I knew the person. But, they they link that. You know, his DNAs here. dude. D
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the next one? The person was beautiful? <Unintelligible bakground noises> G *** other detectives will say theyre gonna tell me The <Clear-throat> G Since theyre beautiful girls and and you did this to them
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reason we know you did it, because you
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<Sigh> Mmnh. ***. What would my motive be? Whats the motive gonna be on
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His DNAs there. The people died. That doesnt mean shit, though,
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No, people that you know. Were some of them strippers?
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how many of them are *** from the people died that are, uh
Transcript*Time*10:25* Real*Time*June*18*2008,*12:13*am*
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because you cant have them? D G D G D D loser. G D G D my ass, you know. Bullshit. What? I was like Mmnh, thats interesting. Im not even interested I bet you could have them, huh? You couldve?
in all of them, though. But, thats what theyre saying. Man, I have a beautiful wife. Ive had beautiful girl friends Yeah, exactly.
spending time with *** (Coughing heard).
Trying to pass it off that youre like youre some kind of Theyre just trying to frame my ass and hook everything on Yeah. I hear you. Huh.
coming around to question me, they said. They gave me their card. Dude, was there anything I mean, aside from you knowing <Clear-throat> D uh was there anything else that that makes it look like, uh all these, uh, girls, was, uh
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my DNA was there-- just just my hair or something. Yeah.

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An occasional, uh, DNA evidence, was there anything that, <Cough/clear-throat> -- You know, like like it was done by the same person? <No audible response> Is that why theyre fucking, uh, trying to railroad ya? No, theyre trying to railroad me. Cause I knew the people
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Theyre gonna charge me. And theyre gonna still still keep
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G D
Tsk. None of the cases are the Yeah. Well, thats helpful, I think. When you think about it, <Cough>
same, I think. So you know, you got a guy *** got hair. Uh, ***hair--D G D G G everyone? D G people. D D But, I would think so. -- You know, fucking, uh uh, a choking here. Uh, how are
they gonna put that together?
***
I just know theyre trying to link it to me. <Unintelligible background noises>
Like all the other big time people, like Ed Gein, whod eat the Yeah, those fucking freaks. <Chuckle> Eat people? Jesus. Well, at least, you got that in your favor.
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Theyre all ***. All I know, man, Im done with my fucking lady. Thats, uh it its over. D Mmnh, Fuck her. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 10:30-11:02> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough>
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Yeah, I would think so. But, I dont know much about that.
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Dont you think a serial person would do the same thing to
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All I know is theyre different cases, man. And theyre trying
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Transcript*Time*11:02* Real*Time*June*18**2008,*12:50*am*
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G D G D
*** get the fuck out of here. Huh? I wanna get the fuck out of here. Hmnh. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough>
S G G S G S
What the fuck is going on out there? <Cough/clear-throat> *** the shit ***. Fucking shit, dude. <Clear-throat>
Whats the likelihood of me beating the every single case? The likelihood of you getting what? Beating every case?
Well, mmnh, if they got if they got what you say they got, I
think, you know. You just gotta remove yourself from where youre at, and put yourself in the jurybox, and listen to what youre saying. And gotta no matter what what the truth is, necessarily. I mean, you want thats always the best. But, if you <Clear-throat> -- Lightening doesnt strike twice, most of the time. You <Cough/clear-throat> S G S here
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know, thats what most people believe. So, you gotta gotta consider that. What do you mean by that? Well, like, in this case, where you, you know what you got
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thats gonna and you gotta be objective. You know what I mean? You
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dont know. Its, uh, you know, a lot of it is all what the jury is gonna
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<Clear-throat> -- Is uh I think your problem is the bootie thing. Mmnh-mmnh. Trying to give a reasonable explanation as to why that is. I
think that the story that somebody found them in a trash can and put buy. G S G S No, Im Im not saying that. No, Im just coming to you Im saying I left them at my doorstep.
No. Yeah, Im just saying that, you know, It is an example is <Cough>
what Im talking about.
If you were a juror and you said and you were feeling bad
responsible for ***. You know what Im saying? S G S Mmnh. What do you think you would say, as a juror? Well, uh, that, I mean, thats what Im saying. That thats a <Sigh> -- You know, somebody went So, if I leave my booties at my doorstep and Im supposed to Well, see, what youve got to consider is what people are
better explanation than,
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be responsible for everywhere they go? gonna think, too. If thats what happened, if you left those out there, and somebody grabbed them and put them on, <Clear-throat>
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about the booties that are at the doorstep, and theyre supposed to be
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them on even if thats what happened -- thats hard for somebody to
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-- The first thing Im gonna think,
as a juror, is what are the odds this that this guy that killed a girl whoever did this did the killing, walked to your house first, found those booties, and then, put em on and then, walked G S *** live right across the way Its an apartment complex. Yeah, yeah Im not saying its not possible. Im just trying
you know, thats what Im saying, you got to remove yourself from where and and told you that story, would you buy it? You know what I mean? G S S G S S To me, if if if the the construction guy that has proof that Well <Cleaer-throat> the street level? everyones door. <Sniff> things S hes leaving his shit there.
See, what I would look at is, first, can people see that from Oh, yeah, it was open road. You could see it. You could see That makes it where you want if you have Uhm, if if everybody knows that you walk around with those <Clear-throat> Because, if that if if that and I dont know anything about
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the place, if its, you know if it takes a key to get into that apartment complex, or if its a gated, you know, community, or anything like that. But, the G Anyone can get in. And there were no cameras. <Clear-throat>
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youre sitting and put yourself in the jurybox. If someone came to you
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Well, Im just saying that <Cough> If somebody came wandering in off the street, and walking up
to your place and putting on booties and going to her place and killing her, uh, that is not likely. But, somebody that lives in there, those things on there, and knows where she lives, could set G S G though? S Mmnh-mmnh. <Cough> that knows you and knows that your shoes and shit always have something like that up. You know what I mean?
So, you know, you gotta think about that shit. What is the motive for me to do something that crazy, Hmnh-hmnh. Fuck, I dont know. But, you know, motives a
try to put a square peg in a round hole sometimes with that. Motives good if theyre trying to hang you for something. You know, *** S If you--if you were dating this girl or, you know, had <Cough>
something going on and got in a fight, and she got pissed off, or, you know, stuff like that, thats that shows motive. But, thats theres no
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nothing thats happened or anything like that. Theres no relationship that exists, you know. G S Mmnh-mmnh. <Cough> People like to hear that theres a motive. Cause, if you think
about it, peop human mind--always wants to know how come? After everythings said and done, all the facts are out, theres always the Well,
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funny thing. Sometimes people just do shit just because. You know, you
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how come? Why did he do that? And its, you know, if they dont have a lot, its sometimes hard for them to think that it happened. G G S Mmnh. <Cough> blood on it, and fucking charge someone? You know, and <Clear-throat> S So, they could just get a bootie and a hat and say theres
its not just a bootie and a hat with blood on it. Its its the
bootie theyre saying is yours, cause its got your DNA in it, and-- the <Cough> S G S
<No audible response>
Thats gonna be their case. Now, you the thing is, youre
explanation, if its sitting out front of your doorstep, and people know you had those things, if its somebody that lives in that building, that could be, you know, an explanation. But, you know
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dont they got a lot of shit to do. Theyre and I dont know who you talked to. I dont know any of those guys or any of that shit. But, most of the time, theyre I mean, theyll bluff. But, I mean, Id beId be concerned about them, <Cough>
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<Clear-throat/cough> Ill tell you this, though, most times, Homicide guys, they
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gonna have to figure out how to get around that that bootie. And the
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girls blood is on it. That connects you to her.
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So cause the stakes are high. <Water flow>
Hmnh-Hmnh G S G S G S G S If it was your tail, how would you explain it? Whats that? <Cough/clear throat> Well, I wouldI would probably *** talk quieter please. Sure. ***. If it was your tail, how would you explain it to the jury?
I would probably humnh-humh--it all depends on, uh, -- on <Flush-toilet>
***, if I uh, to be quite truthful, if I knew I did it, and I knew
they didnt have shit, then, Id roll the dice. Okay. And, if I knew I didnt know theyre not gonna you know, theyre not gonna come up with shit. Now, that being said, I think that theres gonna be a a time where you have to make a educated guess as to what they have. Now, are they
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holding anything back? G S G S They showed me the shit. Well, what Im saying is, is that all theyve got? You know What else like what else have they got on this stuff? Well <Clear-throat>
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what I mean? And this witness they say
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do it, then, I wouldnt be worried about them finding anything, because I
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a couple of things.
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S G S G S G S S
-- Lets take that theyve got a Not *** the same day. Right. But, I mean, but, you know, doing that kind of activity. Well, thats common, isnt it? To knock on the door and check? Sure. But, again, What?
witness who says they saw you.
(Unintelligible sounds/ background noises)
--You have to consider for everything that theyre gonna
throw, youre gonna have to throw an alibi or some kind of a reason why it happened back. So, if I felt comfortable enough with the explanations I had, Id roll the dice. If I knew there was something that was out there, that you know what happened there. I mean, its just me and that other fucking dude. Now, I dont know what he said to anybody, after we got in the know what happened after I left. head and fucking killed him. I dont know. But, I got a pretty good idea fight. I dont know if he went home and told somebody. I dont even know, like hmnh-hmnh, my case, for example, see, I know that the I
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that it was probably as a result of my ass-whooping on him. <Clear-throat> But, I do know two things. I know one, all this DNA shit S
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theyre talking about, they probably got that, because there isnt any other explanation as to why Im sitting here. So, for me to try to fight that part, I think, is gonna be useless. So, pretty likely, thats what happened. Now, if I knew I was
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For all I know, somebody else could have cocked him in the
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never in that fight, and theyre telling me theres DNA, Id laugh at them and say Okay. Lets go to a fucking trial date, cause I know youre not gonna produce that shit, cause you dont have it, cause I know it. But, if I know they got it, then, I dont want to start fighting that me, it changes my whole plan to thinking that, now, Im gonna cut my battle, cause, Im, a, in the end, Im gonna lose it. So, hmnh-hmnh, for losses, saying because of for me.
Now, youre in a different boat from me on this thing. If they make you a reasonable offer on this thing, fuck Ill take it, because, tst, you know, if its <Clear throat> S
odds are depending on what the jury says and mind you, juries arent about that. <Cough> S
about that bootie. Id be worried about because theyre gonna try to theyre gonna go try to find all kinds of similar things now. If they find another witness somewhere else that saw you somewhere, stand by. Its
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gonna get fucking ugly. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> How come theyre finding all these witnesses now and not I dont know. Maybe theyre just now, uh, and *** have they G S
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before? done any, uh or maybe they didnt know who the hell you were. You know, maybe you didnt pop up on their radar until this whole thing over
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all like the OJ jury. Most of them are not. You know, you gotta worry
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--Because of a fight, and I know theyre gonna fucking the
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here in Santa Monica. So, they may not have known who you are. G S S S Everyone knew me in the building. Well, yeah, I know. But, thats just that one building. Thats <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligible background noises> Yeah so
here, a little bit there. But, if they start laying a whole bunch of little bits out there, pretty soon, you know, it starts adding up. And theyre gonna make you look like a dick. <Clear-throat> <Cough> S
shit and all the stuff detectives ***. They dont tell you the whole story of what they got. Theres always something they hold back to lower the questions. And the questions they ask you, sometimes they already know the answers to. Theyre gonna ask you those just to check to see if youre lying to them or not, you know. boom at the last minute and youre fucking sometimes they ask you
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<LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 11:18-11:51> <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Sigh> <Yawn> <Blow-nose>
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Usually, though, its been my experience with guys, I know
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***. <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises>
G D G D G D
You know, fucking Im sweating like crazy. It is hot here. *** cold. Really? Youre sick. ***. Ah 11:52-12:05> <Blow-nose> <Snore> <Cough>
<LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
S J D J D J J
What time is it?
Its, uh, a little after 2:00. Me? Ugh
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Yeah.
<Cough> Okay. ***. Whats up? ***. <Duncan exits cell> <Transcript Time 12:06> <Close-cell door>
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<Open-cell door>
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<Cough> What did he say? Whats that? What did he say? I didnt hear him. I asked what time it was. He said after <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time <Clear-throat/cough> <Snore> <Snore> <Cough>
Go ahead and stand to the left. <Open-cell door> <Duncan re-enters cell> <Transcript Time 13:05> <Close-cell door>
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*** have a visit. And, uh, thank God, we, uh I talked to her out of it and she dropped charges. The only thing I have to worry about is my probation violation which I can do. It means I dont have to go to State.
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***.
Yeah, Ah. *** back in here again? Yeah. What are they doing to you now ***? Well, *** you shoulduh you talk to the watch commander
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2:00. I couldnt hear what he said after that. Ugh.
Transcript*Time*13:06* Real*Time*June*17,*2008;*1:28*pm*
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I can do it all right here or in County Jail. <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> S are home? D G though. <Cough> D D D G D G D D G <Cough> <Cough> <Cough> Oh, is that right? You might, man. Yeah. Well, yeah, you know, I didnt say that. But, -Mmnh, did you tell her youre gonna kick her ass when you <Chuckle>
Man, Im fucked, shit. Ugh. If your in my situation how do you explain that shoe cover? How do you explain what? That shoe cover to a jury. I dont know. Ah. Lets talk about what I mean, you you
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know, we weve been talking about this shit. Uh, if you were on a jury, and you heard <Unintelligible sounds/background noises> D D -- This stuff that you and I talked about, <Cough/clear-throat> -- Youd have to have an open mind but what would you
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Yeah, yeah, no shit dude.
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You might have the creepy crud *** fucking camped out.
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Man, I think I have pneumonia. Uh, it hurts when I breathe,
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think? G D Possible. <Unintelligible sound/backgroundnoises> You know what I mean? I just thats the problem, cause, uh, hem, you know, I wasnt there. And I uh, Im-Im never gonna be a decent to me. Uh, seem like a nice guy. But, hmnh, if, uh, -<Clear-throat> D
It looks like, uh, you, uh, you know, if all the girls youve
fucking, uh, know end up fucking dying, no matter where you go, whats that tell ya, you know, where theres smoke theres fire. Im Im just Im trying to be real here. D G D G D Without a plausible explanation, uh, youre fucked. So, you If you were in my shoes, what would you do? Im sorry? <Sigh> If you were in my shoes, what do you do? Well, look. Uhm, I wouldnt do anything until I saw exactly <Cough>
what they had against me. But, lets just pretend for a second that what
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the Homicide dicks tell you is true. And, you know what? They do have more Im sure. Uh, dude, Im telling you, detectives would never give up all their fucking cards ever. Hmnh, and thats just again, me trying to be real. I dont mean to be gloom and doom, but, mmnh, hah, what youre try to do is this. Youve got one of several options. Uhm, I dont <Cough>
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gotta you gotta come up with it, or think of another tact.
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judge, dude. to, You know, Id never judge you. And, uh, youve been
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if if I if I had killed somebody,
and as many people as theyre claiming you have, I know that in my *** uh, I know that it would be, uh, a real problem physically and mentally. It would fucking eat me up, man. And just the stress of that, uh, would kill me, eventually. D And I dont know if you have any physical ailments or not. <Unintelligible sounds/background noises>
peace, at all. And Id have to make a decision what I wanna do.
Some people in your shoes might find find God to ask forgiveness, because, ultimately, thats where you go. Uhm, other people might fight it to the very end. And, yet, theyre still gonna have uh, under understand that, you know, yeah I did these things, but, Im I mean, theres all kinds of people, uh, who have murdered plenty of folks in mental institutions. And youre not in a lock-down cell. crazy type to me. D Youre actually fucking walking around. All right. You dont seem like the theyre gonna be torn up inside. Uhm, mmnh, you know, the third is, uh, crazy. I have a mental I have a mental problem.
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convince the convince a judge to to to to put you in a institution, because you need help. <Cough> D Uhm, so, you got three ways to go. If Im looking for soothing
my soul because I cant stand the fucking stress anymore, cause my fucking guts are rotting out, Id find Jesus. Id find, you know, uh, you know, you throw yourself on his mercy and you hope for the best.
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<Chuckle> But, you might have a hang up or two that, uh, might
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But, it would fucking kill me. It it, you know, it would. Id have no
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Transcript*Time*13:14* Real*Time*June*18,*2008*3:02*am*
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Uhm, we all trust in God, at one point or another. And, uh, I I I I know, for a fact, that that would be the single best way not to have my fucking guts torn out. Uhm, you know, you could make an argument probably for every single case against you. Uhm, but, after a while, uh, lying, uh, theyre not gonna take that you know, theyre not gonna like Now, the detectives, too as much as we dont like you know, the jury is gonna see a pattern. And, if they believe youre that very much and theyre gonna fuck you over.
detectives they do have a job to do. And theres a lot of stress, uh, when there are murders like this that happen, Im sure. It probably fucking kicks their ass. Uhm, they want to put all this shit behind them. your sentence if you help them out in their fucking caseload. again, I dont want to pass judgement on you, because I dont know. I I I what Ive said G D G D *** fucking harder on the sentence. I had nothing to do with it. Im not saying either. Im not asking for an explanation. But Im just saying ***. Okay. then, then, you know what? You should never you And theyll probably do a lot. Theyll probably really work with you on Believe me, you know and, you know uh, you know,
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should never cop out to something you never did. Im here to tell you, thats the stupidest thing in the world to do. Right? Wouldnt you agree? G D <No audible response> But, look. Mmnh, Ah <Sigh> if you can negotiate with the
detectives if you did it and you negotiate with the detectives, through your attorney <Sniff> it might come out okay. Uhm, at one point or another, youre gonna have to be true to yourself.
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<Cough> You can pre you know, if you did it, and yet you deny you did it to yourself, its gonna eat you up. If you did it, and you continue that sharade for the rest -- the rest of your life, its gonna fucking kill ya. Your family is gonna fucking all the evidence, all the preponderance of have stonewall on it. And guys go to their grave that way. You know the evidence, is gonna be pointed at you. And you and youre gonna what? They live a very unhappy, uh, unpeaceful life.
Okay. Uhm, I will say this. That, if you are who they claim you are, youre one of the most successful in history, cause youre a smart motherfucker. And youve stayed fucking that uh, ahead of everybody. You know, for lack of a better term, notorious. Fucking Were talking movie. You know you know what I mean? you should be proud of yourself. But, Im telling you one thing right now, youre a smart motherfucker. Thats all I know. you various options. And, uh, whatever you do, youre gonna have to make up your own mind <Unintelligible background noises> -- You know. I feel for you. Id hate to be in your shoes. <Cough> D -- The stress could kill you, <Cough> -- Uh, particularly, <Cough>
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<Sigh> But, I I know one thing,
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Now, you asked my opinion, and I gave it to you. And I gave
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I mean, its fucking if you if you did it, I dont want to say
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famous, whatever you know, what err, you know, were talking books.
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if I if I was living a lie, if I <Cough>
couldnt keep it real. D It would kill me. <Unintelligible background noises> D S D G S G D S D S D You all right, man? *** fuck ***. Oh, do you? I think *** got pneumonia. Yeah ***. *** pneumonia, dude. Well Fucking pneumonia? Yeah. <Cough/clear-throat>
<Unintelligible background noises> <Unintelligible bacground noises> G S S G D G
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<Cough/clear-throat> What the fuck ***? Fuck. <Cough> Ugh. <Sigh> *** I woke up sweating. Yeah? Yeah? You woke up sweaty? <No audible response>
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Get--get you started on antibiotics or something.
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-- youre gonna have to tell the jailer. Right?
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D D G D
Yeah, it could be. <Clear-throat> Ya still chilled? Mmnh-mmnh. Yeah, you got something going on in here, dude. Youve got <Cough/clear-throat>
the two of the three options I gave you, the ones I would the two that I would pick would be, uh, Number 1, get rid of the fucking stress. I I thats one thing Id do. Or I would fucking the whole insanity thing. <Cough> D D Im here to tell ya <Cough>
give me think its me where theres smoke, theres fire I would fucking, uh, claim I had a fucking mental hang-up, uh, that debilitated me. know the kind that Vietnam vets get? Something bad happened to you D Uhm Call it you know, whats it called? P, uh post traumatic, uh, -- you
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D D
get locked up in a, uh the hospital or something. But

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<Cough> when you were a kid or something, and, uh, it fucked you up. <Sigh> <Clear-throat> -- You know, I *** know <Cough> -- People get away with shit all the time that way. They may
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You wanna know what I would fucking do, man? Of the of
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 S D D S D G S D noises> D
<Unintelligible background -- You know you may have the other problems. Thats just <Cough> You all right, big guy? Fuck. Maybe you got pneumonia. Holy shit, man. Yeah. <Chuckle> <Clear-throat/cough>
me, though. Youre gonna have to make a decision. <Sigh>
*** some codeine cough syrup. That will do it.
I dont know, dude. I dont know. I I didnt even look. They
pick me up they open this up at 2:00 2:30. Yeah, I didnt know I had commander. Thats fucking incredible. D S D S D
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charges. Thats true. All I got to worry about is my PO. I mean, my PO says hes
gonna violate me. I aint worried about some violation.

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<Cough> I think she can sell, uh uh, *** ice to eskimos man. Hmnh, yeah. Well, Im glad. Cause now now, shes gonna drop the
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***. I know they are ***. My old lady fucking talked to the watch
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What time was it when you got back in here?
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<Sigh> I could do that standing on my head. Yeah. ***, ha. Oh. 13:25-13:27> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough> Drink a lot of water man. Yeah. Yeah. I think hes right. Yeah, it thins it out. 13:28-13:32> <Sigh> <Cough> Yeah, youre majorly congested. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time
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<Water flow> <Cough/clear-throat> <Yawn> <Cough/clear-throat> Coughs getting worse, man. <Cough/clear-throat> Mines acid reflux too. <Cough> Oh, is it?
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G D
Yeah. Well <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough/clear-throat>
Ugh. 13:33-16:15> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Cough> <Snore> <Cough>
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> J Rise and shine, time to get on up. <Sigh> D J G S S <Clear-throat>
Uh, thank you. Thank you. ***.
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<Unintelligible background noises/voices> Thank you. All right. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 16:16-16:18> <Sigh> <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
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<LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time
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<Water flow/Flush toilet> <Cough> <Sigh> <Clear-throat> <Sigh> *** that dude yesterday? Yeah. Okay. *** shit. Ah. <Water flow> <Blow-nose> Ugh, shit. <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
I dont get why the detectives, they all want to talk to you, if Why they want to talk to who? Why theyd ever talk to anybody if theyre gonna charge I dont know.
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To get their side maybe. Oh, I dont know. I wonder what time it is. You have to be questioned, man. I know they feed in the County at 4:00. Really. It cant be that. I dont know. It could be, uh
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them, anyways?
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theyre gonna charge you anyways.
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You know, its hard to say, maybe <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises>
6:00 or 7:00. Thats about right.
S D S D S
This shits terrible. They make a sausage and shit ***. Ah. <Sigh> ***. ***. But, you know *** Just ***. Here.
Ah, thanks. Yeah, I am kind of thirsty. So, thanks. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Sigh>
S D S D
***. No.
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> *** probably sleeping too. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time Yeah, me too. 16:23-17:00> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Yawn> <Cough/clear-throat> <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> <Sigh> <Cough/clear-throat> <Unintelligent background noises/voices>
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ***. G D it. G D G D G D U G
<Blow-nose> <Cough/clear-throat> <Snore> <Yawn> ***. <Sigh> <Yawn> Ughugh <Yawn> I wonder what time it is. <Unintelligible background noises> <Unintelligible background noises>
Yeah. *** detectives to call me out. Im gonna cop out. Fuck You *** what? Im gonna cop out, just because Im the guy. But, ***. ***. What happened to you what are you gonna tell em? He said ***. And he *** and it was *** quite a few ***. *** <Cough>
Ah--My old lady dropped the charges.
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nothing I can do . D *** wouldnt make a difference. So, I dont think they will,
you know, its a lightweight crime. She doesnt want to press charges. Shes not injured. <Sigh>
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I should call my attorney, huh?
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I dont know. I think *** about 8:00, 8:30, something like that.
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D S D S D
You got a probation violation ***. *** that shit? What? *** make a deal *** able to do that? Yeah. Yeah. Thats it. Uh, Im just Im just gonna ask him,
probation officer told me that, uh, he called the detective and ***. So, *** gonna ruin me moneywise. But, I still got a skill when I get out. You know. I dont know. I hate jail. Buttrying to cut your losses. D S G S D D S D S D D S D S Yeah. ***. Yeah, I got a prior though so. <Giggle> <Yawn>
Yeah? *** fucking sink your ass, dude. *** youre catching a chain. My PO said I could do my time at County Jail, so. Plus, County Jail, theyre taking out early, too. Mmnh, Yeah. Thats true. Fucking ***. Its overcrowded. So, I dont know how it is now. It was like I heard it was 10%. Yeah <Chuckle> It was crazy shit. It was like, you know, one for ten. <Clear-throat> Uhm, ***. No. But, Ill tell you what, its still, hey, what you got in the
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county lid *** that, you know. ***, which I can handle I guess. ***. Its
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you know, Hey, just let the probation violation kick in. And *** the
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inner or that they dont fuck you over is when you if you if you cop out to a County lid. And then, youll get then, theyre gonna give you a year. D S D S D S Yeah. Make sure that thats the year. And then they take the the Yeah. -- And make you stay there for a year.
Yeah, I will. Yeah. Thats the one thing that I was gonna ***. I just cause, if you go there for the if you uh, and
ask the detectives about.
just let it ride, then, thats fine. But, you got to make sure that you in D S Yeah.
dont do that. They dont fuck you over like that, unless, you know, *** unless youre being a dick or whatever ***. the cops on me and she doesnt work. Im the only money. S S S D S D D D D But, what gets me, though, is, you know, when, uh, she calls Well, she needed to get your ass outta there. Hehe. Im the only money coming in. Shes gotta go Yeah. -- Find some place to live. Yeah. Cause, Im gonna be locked down for whatever. <Sniff> But, she should have thoughta that yesterday. Yeah. I told ***. Its all emotion. Females, theyre just, uh,
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percentage off that, that they dont give you three years
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you know <Cough> S D Ah <Yawn> Yeah, maybe you know what? I might even be able to <Cough> D S D S D ***. S U U U Yeah, ah. Hopefully. Yeah. Not that Im make court today in the afternoon.
I dont know what the fuck Im gonna be doing. ***not that Im getting tired of you alls company but, I would
For English, dial 1. Para Espanol <Dial tone> <Dial> Dial the phone number now. Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> Michael, Anthonys client. One moment, please. <Sniff> Thank you for using Inmate Communications. For a rate <Ring>
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quote, dial 7. U Hello 245
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U G U S
This is a collect call from Michael Theyre not open yet. -- Using Inmate Communications. Yeah. ***. <Cough> <Unintelligible background noises>
Anthonys client. At the *** --
D G charge. S
Yeah.
He would be able to explain and knock that shit out. But, the
thing is that he gonna show up, he dont care. He just waiting for the full Most of the time, the arraignment, thats just a formality.
Thats just there is no evidence offered up ever for an arraignment. Its guilty. So, its just a formality. Thats why D D S even you D S Nobody except me. <Chuckle>
Nobody except me. Well, yeah. I hear, well, you know what though, no, even Yeah. Mmnh. -- You go to arraignment and you plead not guilty because Yeah. Id make sure theyre not gonna fuck you over - No, youre right. Youre right. Yeah, yeah. Youre right. ***. Trying trying to quit unless you make a deal when, you
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you aint made no deal yet. If you plead guilty D S D S
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just whether youre pleading guilty or not guilty. And nobody pleads
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*** my attorney was there at an arraignment -
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 him.
know, for the D S D Yeah -- Mini-trial. My my public defender will probably make a deal and tell <Cough> S
me not to *** shit. Shit, uh, I was uh, I was at an arraignment one day. And,
D S
Really?
He told him, he said Im telling you right now, this isnt the
place for that. And, you know, and the guy said Okay. So, he pled not D S D D S Yeah. ***
<Clear-throat> due in court?
today. Hes supposed to be here. And, I think, that, uh I think the
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detectives are gonna come back, talk to me at some point. D S D S G D Uh-huh. I hope *** dont fuck it up. Oh, shit, man. *** while youre in a hurry. I dont know. Are those guys gonna come back and talk to you? Nah, they said Im gonna have an arraignment. Oh, when?
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Thats why attorneys dont show up to arraignments.
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guilty. And and, Im sure, later he pled guilty or something.
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uh, some dude wanted to plead guilty. And the judge wouldnt even let
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G D G
Today. Today? And then, they said theyre gonna keep talking to me and <Chuckle> <Sniff>
hassling me the whole way through, they said. D G D G D That sucks, dude. I swear to God.
supposedly, have their case on me? I dont know. Is that what they do?
Well, I meanI dont know. Let me think about it. Cause,
we found this, or We talked to this guy. And then, they want you to <Cough> D D
Uh, and youre being falsely accused. Uh, you can always come to them and say Listen, I had an
alibi. And then they can check it out. And guess what? Theyre not gonna press that charge against you.
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now?
know, theyre out there hoping they got well, they dont hope. But, they theyre theyre looking for the story, one way or the other. <Unintelligible background noises> D Its easy, you know, *** . check with your airline. I was not in
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My daughters mom an alibi, when she is against my ass, No, no. I understand. Thats what detectives do, I think. You
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explain it. Or or lets say you arent the guy
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then, they may have a question for you. Then, they may say Hey look,
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Why would they keep hassling me the whole way, if they,
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***. G D G D yesterday? G D D Mmnh-mmnh. Ahh. <Unintelligible background noises> know, think about it. If they cant ***. <Cough> D G have I dont know. Hmnh. In this case, I was at home. Like, literally, at home with my Ah Cause she was pregnant. Oh, really? Is that the the one that the detectives talked to daughters mom. But, shell lie and say No, he wasnt.
Well, if you were home, think about it. Figure it out. You
***, you know. I dont know. If you have receipts, or you They could just plant anything they want. They could grab a <Unintelligible background noises>
hat from my place. You know what Im saying? D G D ***. Yeah, I think that they-*** lie and say *** problems *** They make up make up, but, -- I dont know, as much as we
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huh, as much as we all really dislike detectives. Uh, I dont I dont S D S D Well, they know were gonna say that. So, they usually take Yeah. -- You know, theyll go ahead and talk to somebody or Nothing personal with em.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D G D G D D D me. D D G S
<Sniff> But, I dont think you have anything, out, against me or any of But, they told me all the Sheriffs Departments are against Well, Ill tell you what. They got cases on you maybe. <Clear-throat/cough> know if its personal <Sniff> us, you know.
That could that could be a problem. Right, but, I dont
You know. It *** personal means start planting planting Another detective that he mentioned the crooked mother Yeah.
And and hes like Since youre not helping us out with this Yeah. And, you know, they <Clear-throat> Thats what they say, man. Thats the secret, you know. You <Cough> -- Make it personal. You dont want to make it personal for
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dont want to D
them, you know. Uhm, you know, youre just another another guy that comes through, if you do it right. Uhm S D Ill tell you what. Just in here Yeah.
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case, hes like, Fuck, youre going down. Its just a matter of time.
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fucker he took my blood.
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shit, you know. I dont know. Maybe your, uh your old girlfriend
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-- If if I am sitting here, if Im
sitting where youre at, and I did it, and I did more shit, I I wouldnt want them digging around looking at other shit. D S D S Yeah. Yeah. So, Id do what I could fucking focus on this you know one -- One thing. Because, whats gonna happen, they start One one crime.
find--find people, knock on doors. I dont know. Mmnh, Mmnh G D S G S shit out of me. Hehe Its just uh
Theyve been doing it for years with me, man, hassling the
Every little case, theyve come to my ass.
fucking things that its gonna be theyre gonna make it look like a big time, mmnh. I dont know. They you know only a few. S D G And they really dont they dont have a lot of cases. Theres Yeah.
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candy bars here, you know. Were talking about If I -- Dead people. Theyre not, necessarily, talking about dead people.
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Yeah, ***. <Unintelligible background noises> Stupid things that Wre not talking about were not talking about, uh, stealing
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poking around at other shit. Fuck, you dont know what theyre gonna
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D people. G D G about? D G D G D G D G
Oh, theyre not? What are they
accusing you of? I thought we were we were talking about dead No. This case is--- but the other cases. Yeah? Its all here and there. Who knows what theyre talking
<Cough> Not after ***. But, they said, uh, one? Two?
So, how many how many murder raps are you looking at? Two murder raps, and then, plus the original charge youre Yeah. Okay.
here, right. Which is uh attempt murder and burglary?
But, see, that stuff, I mean, the first one, they were trying to
talk or rat someone out or D about?
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together. They can either take the out of state one and bring it here. Or they could do one of them here and take it out of state. D this, uh
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Oh, is that one of the murder charges they were talking Yes. Cause thats thats out of state. Yeah, but, Ill tell you something. They can wrap that all
You you know, you on that yeah. And you said that, uh,
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connect me. *** Ones from maximum14 years ago, because I wouldnt
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Oh, I thought they were talking about there were dead, uh
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But see the one back home. Yeah. My mom even stated that I was sick that night -Yeah? -- and that I was at home. But, shes not here to state that, Yeah.
parents knew I was at home that night. <Cough/clear-throat> D G D G nails D G D D S Blood? like DNA. Right? Ive known the people for 14 years?
Uhm, then, that case on that case, too, though, they had Man, how could you not have my DNA in a house that they Man, thats true. Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Of course, it had my DNA all over the place blood, hair and
I had when you work on cars you cut yourself? Oh, yeah. Oh, I see what youre saying. Yeah. Yeah, thats true. Try to Yeah. You know, I was Youre gonna have to get that shit together,Thats all I know, This time theyre gonna hit all the common denominators, you Wheres the where was the blood found?
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get a jury to see that, though, man. D S know. D
Youre gonna have to think of a good one.
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G D G D G D
No, they didnt say. Oh. They just lie. Okay. Well, what if they say Well, fuck, uh, the blood, uh, Mmnh Mmmh, They didnt say that. They said it was found Oh. Well, if they said it was on her you know, on her
was found, uh, on her clothing? Then, what? on the keychain.
clothes or something, thatd be kinda tough but, on a keychain, easy, especially, if youre, like you said, working on cars. G Its bullshit, man. Im not I mean, how am I supposed to <Sigh> S D G Mmnh. Mmnh-mnh-mnh.
worry about this stuff? They just keep trying to tack stuff on.
I dont know what they have, What they say they just keep <Cough>
making up stories. G D D G G D G S
And want me to speak about shit I dont even know about. Yeah. Yeah. How am I supposed to know about that when Im sitting at Yeah, I can see that. So, whats gonna happen when they I was at home. I mean, like an eyewitness or fucking blood on, uh,
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home? come at you with just
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something? G D G D G D G D G S G D G D G D Yeah, *** Then, youre gonna have to explain that one, right? If there is eyewitnesses, why would they wait 14 years? Youre right. There are elements of time. I understand. But, They come at me, anyway. So, they might even say that. Yeah. How did you see the person? Yeah, and I understand that.
Im a hundred feet away at at, uh one in the morning. Wow, you must have good eyesight. Why? You must have good eyesight. Yeah. Youre right. Thats what attorneys do. I could see if it was broad daylight. But, nighttime, when Yeah.
people people are able to pick you out in a photo line-up G D D G D
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some tampering right there ***. Yeah, thats true. <Cough/clear-throat> Is that the Chicago one? No, man. Everythings mixed. I dont know what theyre Right.
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talking about, you know.
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Thats what the attorney does in court. ***.
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But, I wasnt. So, and then, you break it down and say What time is it?
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what if they do come at you? What are you gonna do?
Transcript*Time*17:19* Real*Time*June*18,*2008;*7:07*am*
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 me.
G D G D G D J D G S J S D S J J
Theres not theres not *** a Well, you know, you cant how youre gonna -- how are Now they they said theyre gonna take me to Downey, after City of Downey? Yeah, and I never even lived out there. <Unintelligible background noises> Can you tell me what time it is? Yeah, I sure can. It-is, uh, 7:30. Thank you. Thanks so much.
case that they lied. you supposed to know what to do if theyre lying to you? this. And I dont even know for what.
Sir, I have meds I gotta take, at some point.
Nice. <Laugh>
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doctor prescribed? Uhm, sorry, I know nothing about that. *** get you right here. <Close-cell door> Thanks. Ahh.
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Yeah. Sir?
Otherwise, I wouldnt give them to you. Ahhhh Yeah? Were you able to contact my congestion medicine? Thatthe
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Damn court order.
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G S G phone. G D G on em. D G D S D S D D
Thats your medicine. What Man, I dont know. They asked me if I wanted to call my wife last night from their Oh? Did you? No. Why not?
about mine? Hmn?
*** Call my wife from their cell phone. Cause I have my eyes Oh, I see what youre saying. Yeah. Theyre gonna hassle her anyways. Yeah. Huh, oh, yeah. *** water. <Yawn> Thanks. Cool. <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Sigh> You dont know when the detectives are gonna talk to you? Huh? You dont know when the detectives are gonna talk to you? They said theyd be back today. I dont know if theyre gonna Yeah. <Clear-throat>
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come by this morning, or or what.
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Want a cup, an extra cup of water?
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I ll find out when that door opens, <Yawn> <Cough/clear-throat> <Sigh> <Unintelligible background nosies>
I guess. Mmnh. Oh, boy.
G D G D G
Those guys, I know they make up shit, because Mmnh-mmnh. -- The one from a long time ago, -Mmnh-mmnh.
-- Supposedly, the time that they said it happened, I I was
even on the phone I was sick and with my fiance. At home sick and she got home. And we talked for a while. The whole thing that my D G D G D Is this in in Chicago? Yeah.
I think 17. Thats bullshit, man. It it has nothing to do with Yeah.
the house. It has nothing to do with me.
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friends. The other friend was getting hassled too, holy shit. Howd she end up dying? I have no idea. <Cough> I dont know the full details. Mmnh.
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The brother had the brother had was gonna *** and old
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How old were you, man?
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phone record called-- So, that *** was me being at the house.
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she was taking care of me then she went home. And I called her when
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G D G D
I dont know the full details on any Mmnh-mmnh. That is Well, yeah, yeah. I I get it, dude. I get it. Im just just, you
of these cases, man. They just try to throw shit on me.
on you, theres theres usually if they can pile it on, theres a reason
goes in with with a, uh, porky pig porky pig mask, uh, in every one of them. Its probably a good bet, thats he the one doing all of those, you know. <Chuckle> G D S Mmnh-mmnh.
Only one thing I can say is, you know. That thats a good *** this one that, uh that youre in jail for, right now, is the
the Santa Monica one, how did they get you? Did they get you through G S No witness or nothing *** nothing else. See, now, heres the problem you got. Uhem, uhem. If
again, you got to put yourself in a jurors mindset. Theyve got blood on
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you in Chicago. Theyve got blood on on you in in Santa Monica. And they say they have blood on you in this bootie thing on, uh G S D S Not my blood, though. Oh, your DNA. Thats right. Well, Skin DNA Still, I mean, thats, you know <Clear-throat>
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somebody CI or
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bet, you know. Uh
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know I mean, you wonder how much, uh if they if they try to pile it
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 else.
-- And, even if you can explain all
three of them, its weird. Just looking Im thinking to myself, out here, you know, is youre by putting myself in this jury box Id be thinking, how come all three of these, you know, crime scenes, you got some kind of DNA connection to em? You know what Im saying? know their life and theyre a stripper and theres someone after them. S G Right. No, I I get all that. But, what G Right? Because think about it, man. You know someone, you dont
Or or yet another one that they have have, uh, ex-
husband or ex- marriage after them or whatever the case may be. You dont know about it. Youre just the people person going to their house. G S G And they look at just the DNA. They dont look at nothing No, I S Yeah.
But, if you if you had marital problems, and your wife says
guy made it to her house. Can I touch you right now? even though ***. S G S S
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seeing if she was *** Right. -- *** his DNA is here *** how is that possible? If what Im saying is, if youve got if youve got DNA G
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connection to all three of those things, youre going to have to really have some good explanation as to why all three of them there, cause, its--I mean, think about it, dude, seriously. Statistically-speaking, uh, I I
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Mmnh-mmnh. Right. But, if youre But, they dont look at that. Theyre looking at me like *** and
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to you You have marital problems. Im *** with you guys right now. A
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hang out with some pretty far-out folks sometimes. D S Boy scouts? Yeah. Not so much in my not now. But, back in my wild
reckless youth. And-- I Ive never known three people that have gotten contact with. Ive had one real close friend. And I was there when he got But, youre gonna have to worry about that shit with the, uh with the jury. G Thats thats right. These are people I didnt even know that
were dead. Theyre coming up on me now saying people are dead. Im D Yeah. But, you know, that ***, you know, uh, I think the <Cough> D
-- Now is, were they all killed the same way? You know, that
Monica case, the girl got stabbed. But, did the other girl, you know, -were these two other, uh, girls stabbed? Or were they shot, or, you know --
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I dont know if it was a girl or a guy in the Santa Monica case. Oh, you dont know? No. Mmnh. I have no idea man. It doesnt saydoesnt say ***. Oh, I see. Well, when you talk to those detectives, Id be trying to pump
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question here is *** _
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murdered. I know about people. But, not three people that Ive had
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them for information on that. Did you try? G S G S G D G S Uh, the one in Santa Monica or wherever it was? Well, on any of them, yeah. My attorney will do that. Well Theyre not gonna give me shit, man. They just when they Oh, okay.
tell you you did it, or whatever, err, theyre not saying I did anything.
Theyre just saying We have this evidence and youre gonna Well, if theyre saying youre gonna get arraigned, theyre <Cough>
be arraigned. saying you did it. Mmnh. S D S
Well, I can I can almost bet you, dude, they got more than Yeah.
They got the answers to some of the questions, I mean.
gonna tell the truth about stuff, man. If you dont, theyre not gonna reveal their shit until they go to court. <Cough> *** thats how they play the game. Yeah. Wow, arent they slick. They tried to take a Boston hat, like
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the one I I wear all the time, to try they said they took it out of my place with the persons blood on it. It wasnt my hat, though. <Cough> G The one I gave
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D G S G S G D G D S
You gave to the girl? Yeah. Well, see, how did they know that you had a Boston hat like Cause all the pictures they take from my house, it shows me Oh. But, its not that one. So
that, though? wearing a Boston hat.
This was the new one. This is the one you gave the girl? Oh <No audible response>
Well, if thats all they got, to hang their hat on so to speak. Oh, but, you know what, though? I mean, the reality of it is,
picture of the exact car. But, theyll take a picture of the same make and model D S D S S D S Mmnh-mmnh. -- And the same color and say Its not this car. But, it looks Mmnh-mmnh. Theyll theyll do the same thing with that hat shit. <Clear-throat> You know, if all theyre worried about is a hat Yeah. -- You know, unless, theres like what hes talking about, if
just like this car.
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theres blood on the hat, then, theyre not gonna be able to reproduce that. But, if they got
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its just like when when theyre looking for a car, they may not have the
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No way. Its not that one. They didnt show me that one.
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D on it, right? G D G blood. D G D G D G J S J S J J J D S G D S S
I think her you said her blood is They said they found it, in my place, with her blood on it. They found it in your place with blood on it? Something like I dont knowmay not the ***, but there is Man, that would be hard to explain. And it belongs to you. But you know that isnt true, right? I think its uh, no, its not true. Oh, okay. ***.
But, what they were doing is trying to startle me and scare Baker? <Cough> Yo. <Sigh>
***. You *** are going to court. One more time? Huh? One more time? Youre going to court today. Oh. *** See you, brother. All right, gentlemen. Good luck. Good luck.
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*** trash, throw it away. ***. Yeah you gonna eat that? Yeah. You want it? ***.Ok. You have everything? ***. ***. Take care man. Good luck ***. ***. <Close-cell door> Yeah. Im gonna ***.
<Staley exits cell> <Transcript Time 17:34> G D You have court today?
Im gonna try to get into court this afternoon. But I Im
get a trustee job. G D G D G D G D
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the whole way? Yeah. They were? Oh, I I thought, when you have an attorney, they cant touch you. I dont know. I dont know if they were hassling him or not.
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Im so confused. Yeah. When OJ got arrested, were the detectives still hassling him
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not gonna go anywhere until the detective calls me in. ***all I wanna do is
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They were probably watching him. Im gonna put this mattress back up here. *** you know were gonna ***, yeah. G D G D G D G D G D G D G D Whatd you say? I said You know were gonna have more people in here. I think they said today Im going to Monterey Park. Monterey Park. You have court there? For what, I dont know. Huh, like a new case in Monterey Park?
Los Angeles, man. Man. <Sigh>
Something to do with my daughters mom. Probably, put a Oh. ***, thats all you need. Of course, thats small potatoes I wanna know why my attorneys not here.
restraining order on me, so she could get full custody of my daughter. for you, right now.
up here, you know. $90,000?
No, he wont come *** me. Just yo have them call me. No, not yet. Its gonna cost the 90 plus15. Ugh. Well, all these other cases, theyre piling up fast, man. The detectives tells me, You had a nice long career. <Chuckle> Nice long career? Yeah. I was like Uh, sorry, sir. I cant talk to you. Please Uh, theyre used to that, though. Hmnh, Nice long career?
Thats gonna cost you too. ***. I guess its your freedom at stake, so.
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call my attorney. They got pissed.
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Yeah, well, its pretty early. Man, attorneys dont usually get
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G D G D G
Why do they get pissed if they, Well, they dont uh, you know what, man? I got to be honest Oh, he was pissed. Hes like You know, man, okay. You dont want to talk,
supposedly, have everything they need for a case? with you. I dont think they get pissed. Was he?
people we can contact. And if we contact the people that know of you, that are close to you. And if you contact them, youre *** the court. They cant do that to my wife though. Can they? D G D G D G No.
Yeah, Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Yeah?
Even my my uh-even my, uh, wife cant stand her. Thats
threats all the time. D
somebody like that. You know, in the cops corner.
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an ex.
shoot her and her parents. Shooting has nothing to do with these cases.
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Yeah, thats why you need to a fricking murder beef with Well, what does that matter? Shes vindictive and and shes Yeah. Well your attorney has to show that. <Sigh> Then, she would lie and say that I threatened to shoot to
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why weve been arguing because of my daughters mom , probably ***
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Theyre talking to my daughters mom.
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nuh, nuh, nuh, nuh, nuh. Hes like Dude, this one case, theres plenty of
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D G D D
Oh, is that right? I dont even have a gun. Thats a problem ***. <Laughter> What are you gonna do? Well, on the, uh on the case we
out what youre gonna do with that? G D G D G D I dont know ***.
Yeah. Well, youre all, theyre both good case scenarios. All I know is what theyre saying is not true. Thats a fact. Ok. Right. 17:40-17:44> <Sniff> <Sigh> ***. Theres no attempted murder of nobody. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> D I wonder how his case is gonna turn out? Hmn. That would <Sigh> <Cough> <Sniff> I think hes got a good I think hes got a good chance of
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beating that, cause, yeah, DNA and all that I mean, hes just got in a fight. And all bets are off when youre in a fight both sides are fighting each other. And, later on, he dies? Fuck. He didnt mean, you know he didnt even mean to kill him.
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talked about yesterday, the, uh the Santa Monica case, did you figure
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ***. G D G covers. D D G D G D G D D D
<Sniff> I think uh, Ill bet *** if I was a betting man I would say, hes probably gonna walk on that case. Or he could plead guilty to some lesser lesser charge, you know public drunkenness or something. <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises/voices> <Yawn> Ahh Ah, boy. This sucks. They search dumps? Yeah. In all different towns? Yeah. But, sometimes, they do. They cant hold him responsible for that.
Do detectives search the dumps like crazy, right?
I dont know. You could it probably depends. <Sigh> ***. What theyre charging me for, the detective ***. Which one? The one in ***? The one with the fucking shoe cover, man. That *** shoe Yeah, *** on what regarding ***. No, I I was just wondering that. Because my place is kitty <Sniff> G When the girl was telling me her husband was after her and
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corner to ***.
took the kids four four kids from her, because of a domestic dispute
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You know what? I dont know, man. I dont know. You mean
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ***. right?
D G D G D what? G D
Yeah. Yeah, it could be him, Who knows? I dont know. It could. I dont know the status of what happened to her. Uh, she ended up dying with a with a uh, with a knife? Or I have no idea.
Oh. You know, it was her blood. But, they said that her shit
on on, uh on the bootie. So whoever did it was wearing the bootie. G was you. D G D G D G D D G And, because I had old booties, theyre trying to say Oh, it Yeah. And you said something about skin DNA. Yeah, thats what I mean. It could be you could have Or she had them there already. Yeah, *** True.
touched them, or somebody took them off the porch.
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across it and waving boy, I dont know. I have a hard time believing if I am the jury, Ill have a hard time believing thatthe juror--the killer was gonna kill her, kill this lady went went searching *** until he found booties. And he found your place, and then, walked over, you know.
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***, she could ve been wearing em when uhwhen uh-Yeah, maybe it was just laying around, and she walked
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Well, that just means you touched the person.
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G D G D G D G D G those? D G D G D G covers. D G D everytime?
Or *** sitting at her front door. Well, yeah. No, *** Listen, I kept them at my front door. Yeah.
Real*Time*June*18,*2008,*7:38*am*
And I came home from work one day, and I was helping her. And I putem on. Yeah.
And shes like Oh, those are cool. How do I get some of How come you keep them at your front door, man? Because you dont get your carpet dirty. <Clear-throat> Yeah. Oh. Kind of crazy ***.
You take your shoes off. And ***, instead of taking your shoes off you just wear the Smart.
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around Koreans. Thats what they do. G So, if a person just moved in or so, and I dont want to get their carpet dirty, you take your shoes off. And Im like Here. I got these. Oh, could I have some? D G Yeah? What am I supposed to say? No?
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What else are you supposed to do? Take your shoes off Yeah, I guess, thats what they do, you know. I grew up
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Uh-huh.
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Yeah, I understand, I understand.
Yep, now you dont have to convince me, man. Remember I told you Id help you out and ***? Listen. Im creative. I think youre creative. G D G D Im just telling the facts. Thats whats-And thats it. Sure. Sure. But, you need to come up with a fricking idea, Thats why *** covers there.
counter it with other than, It wasnt me, <Chuckle> D G D -- Thats not gonna fly.
Why else the blue cover err the boot covers be there. No, it musta fell off somebodys foot. I dont know. <Sigh>
G trouble. D G D D D G G G
Just a scare tactic, because of boot covers there Im in Yeah.
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supposed to mean.
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What about the weapon, the eyewitness? Yeah, well, -On that date that it happened. You know what happened? Uh-uh. They have your DNA. They got her DNA. And, uh <Yawn> No idea, ***skin fell on the boot cover. ***. Whats that
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Thats just kinda ***. Nobody would just drop it there.
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man. The- if they have something, you need to you need something to
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D G blood. D G D G D G D
Uh, I understand. But, thats my You know, thats kind of odd that theres only one drop of Uh, yeah. I dont know. But, how was she killed, man? You It doesnt make sense. That just one drop of blood ***. They say. Yeah, they say. Right. ***.
point. The facts are that your your skin DNA
Yeah, you said, uh, the detectives kept harping on the fact <Laughter>
D G D G
Im in Southern California, man. I dont even look at that shit. Uh-uh, my wife even tells me Babe, how come you dont Wait a minute, youre a dude. You got to look at that shit.
care about my breasts?, GodI dont get Im not into that, man. Im into a woman for her.
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lunches, cook. Yeah. youre not into physical attraction? My wife doesnt have big boobs. My girl from before no.
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Youre into the personality? A woman that ***. Youre the perfect man for for a A woman thats gonna cook and do all the shit make
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Pretty much. I dont ***.
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that she had big big boobs, huh?
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D G D G D Right? G D G D G D
Yeah. My sons mom- small. C-cup, D-cup. Yeah. This other girl that I dated before-- nothing. What does big I dont know, man. Well, you know how you know how
boobs have to do with anything, man? guys are. mmnh hmnh, some of them everybodys got preference. What does that have to do with a homicide case?
Yeah, I dont know, man. Maybe theyre trying to say all No. nah. Huh? Theres *** shit. Okay. <Sigh>
these any any girls got that got killed, all had big boobs.
<Unintelligible background noises> D Well, if they all got big boobs, and they all got stabbed, and
you lived, you know, a couple feet away, or something, maybe thats what theyre looking at. I dont know. <Unintelligible background noises> Haha, you know, big man over here had a point though, you
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know. Mmnh mnh-mmnh. I thinkuh-- Ive been around. But, I cant think of, uh more that one or two people, in my entire life that I had been near when murdered. Uhm G D G Listen, Im a business guy. Yeah. Im in anyones house.
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D G D G then, ***. D G D
Hmn, hey, you knw what, you *** am I supposed to know whos after you and whos after You dont know, you dont know. As a matter of fact, uh Im supposed to be there working in their house. *** and Youre right.
dont have to convince m Im just saying.
Yep. Well, hopefully, theyre just lying to you. Cause if you
are living a few -- a few doors down and and all the victims were, uh uh, girls with big boobs, and, uhm, they all got stabbed-G D G D big boobs? G D G D D G D G No. Okay. Well, -- yeah. <Sniff> mentioned that to me. Theres no Theres no victims like what they are saying.
Oh. So, its not like its not like a like just everybody had
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boobs, beautiful body. Yeah. Everyone used to look at her. Was this the girl hes talking about here in in El Monte? Yeah. She had big boobs? I didnt know that.
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Ah hah, I thought thats what he was talking about. No, he just said Oh Im sure you remember the girl big
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It would be different if I was in there its only business.
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D G D G D G could tell. D G D G D G D-cup. D G
Come on. You at least, saw I dont know, man. Seriously, I dont. Well, I mean, you dont have to sit there and like big boobs. I dont know, man. To me, big boobs would be F-cup like my brothers wife. You An F-cup, huh? <Chuckle> Thats nice.
Its ridic- -- thats thats the extreme. Thats that big. If its not like that, its not big to me.
Yeah. So, *** small like a B-cup. Right? An A-cup is the Thats not big to me, man. Thats you can hardly tell its a Yeah. You do not need in other words, not that big a deal? Well, see, the things is, when youre not into that, you dont
look into that like my buddy used to look into Playboy all the time. And I didnt care about that. I rather read a book, than Playboy. I never
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watch porn. And me, my deal is making money, man. D D G D G Yeah. Theres something to be said about that. <Chuckle> ***-Not worried about women that are gonna cause problems. Yeah. Ive got enough headaches with my daughters mom.
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same as a D-cup to you?
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Okay. She mightve had small ones?
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D G D G D G
Yeah. So what do you do for fun Work and travel, man. Hmnh? Work and travel. Just wherever we can travel. Near the Santa Barbara is Travel where?
and excitement?
anywhere. I just gotta fight ***. D D G D G D G D me. D <Sigh> I like fishing. What? I like fishing.
Well, thats true Youre gonna be locked down for awhile.
I love it. Relaxing, you know. Yeah, its a lot of fun. Uhh. Ah shit. I dont know what that is. I dont know. He said it was, what? Uh, 7:30? So, it must
be at least 8:00 now. The detecitve ought to be coming in pretty soon for
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wash cars at Wayside and get some work time good time work time behind me. Mmnh--Get some double-ups. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:00-18:01> <Water flow> <Flush toilet>
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<Sigh> I wanna just get this behind me, man. I want to go out and
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Yeah, fishing is awesome, man.
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good. What does that matter, man, cause Im not traveling
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Transcript*Time*18:02* Real*Time*June*18,*2008;*7:50*am*
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 U U G D G D G D D G U U U U
<Unintelligible background noises> For English, dial 1. <Beep> Dial the phone number now. Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> Michael, Anthonys client. <Beep>
One moment please. Thank you for using inmate <Beep> <Ring> Hello.
communication. For a rate quote, dial 7.
Theyre not there. They figure-- you know, theyre so funny, Yeah.
cause they figure. Not only ***. ***, man.
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would what if they got you dead to rights, would you ever confess? G What was that?
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Its a tough case. They could say whatever the fuck they want. <Sniff> Well And Im not confessing to something I didnt do. No, I I wouldnt think I dont think you should. But what
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This is a collect call from
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D G D G D G
If they got you a hundred percent, Man, if that was something I did, of course. <Sniff> Yeah. Yeah. And then, made a deal.
would you confess , ever? Or would you just go all the way?
these fuckers have been fucking with me, man. And theres nothing personal about it. If cause they didnt get what they want from me to rat someone out that I didnt know about the case tell me Im holding something back. And, then, now now, they want to come at me with all D G D G D D Sure. this other stuff.
do their shit Youre right.
Yeah. Well, what *** yeah, I mean, you can well <Unintelligible background noises/voices> Id have to it would have to be an elaborate an elaborate
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thing for that to happen. And theyd have to manufacture evidence, manufacture witnesses. Theyd have to spread your DNA around ***. G Why is it why is it that all this stuff they, supposedly, have against me, but they dont have eyewitensses against me on the day that it was done? D G I dont know. They have eyewitnesses that saw me look in the window or
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-- and frame my ass.
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How do I know the detectives arent sending someone out to
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But, Ill fight it to the last bound, because Im telling you,
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use the handle to see so-and-so. To see if someone *** Well, what does that matter? D G D G D G D G D G D Yeah. I dont know. It must you know, must be saying How is that stalking? ***stalking from wherever--*** for her. *** looking in the window. If you did a break-in, you were
check it out, you know, I dont know. the door and see if theyre home. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Nothing. ***. And, if theyre not home, you leave. So, whats wrong with that?
Youre just no, no. Youre just talking about looking in the
windows. It depends. Front window? Or, you know, a side window? G D The front door window. Nah, its not thats not so bad. <Unintelligible background noises> Anyone even my house. My wife to see if my wifes Oh, yeah, thats normal, man. You have nothing to worry They just make shit worse than it is. Yeah. *** such a bad person.
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G D G D G
*** home, Ill look to side to see if she about.
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Back window?
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When you fricking go to someones house, and you knock on
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Yeah. And shit, man Im I am just a working person, man. Trying Yep. <Sniff> Yeah. -- ***. <Sigh> Its easy if its working person and try to have a life
to make a living.
They came after me. Thats the thing. No other reasons but One of your cases is weak, man. Lets hope it is. *** Yeah. I dont know. Yeah.
the other bootie that ***.
But, if they have such a solid case, why wait two years -- To question me now ***. I dont know. Like I said, the only thing you have to worry
about is like uh, new witnesses. Thats the only thing that come up. I
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mean, you know, they start checking people and sometimes **** G D G D G A witness comes up two years out of the blue? Man, I dont know. Im just saying that-uh if Im if Im You know what? No. Another and then, another thing
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thinking about it practically
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Why wait two years?
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And and ***. They wouldve came after me already.
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D G D G D G D G D G D G
Mmnh-mmnh. That other this case that Im fighting, they said the girl Which girl? The one in Santa Monica? His or her. Him or her, a girl or a guy. And they identified you? Okay. They told me The one in Santa Monica? Listen. Yeah. Oh.
identified me, as being there at the crime scene.
person, his or her, cant remember. They identified him out of a photo D G D G D D G G D G So, so, its opposite what they told you? *** The girl him or her had identified you. We wanna hear Okay. Thats reasonable. ***. But, It doesnt support its not supported by the paper work. So, my attorney, when I saw the paper work Yeah? -- I said That the person who did not see the face of the Oh. -- Saying, that they knew the person that said hi or good-
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person, but identified them on the side
bye to the person ***.

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your side of the story.
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line-up without them being at the scene.
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When I got the paper work from my attorney, it says the
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D G D
Oh. Oh. Somebody ***. *** few times in the last few months. Well, that could be a problem. Cause if you walked in here
sideways this, you know, just looking at the wall, I dont see a front full shot. Uh, I I still know its you, if I if Im familiar. bye to everyone. D G D G D G D G D stranger, it would be different, though. For all I know person, here and there. Yeah. G When you share the same alley way, you say hi and goodEverybone, youre right. Youre right. If you were a total
*** the person says, uh I said hi and good-bye to the
Say it again about the fears.
the photo line-up Yeah?
him. It didnt say him or or he or she nearby, you dont know who this person was that got stabbed?
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claiming. Im assuming it was some girl if they said it is him or her, , uh, saying hi hi and good-bye. Theres only a few people that I say hi and good-bye to. D G Yeah. That I see them in the morning leaves at the same time as
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Okay. So, you dont you dont know, uh, if if if you lived Man, there was no intent to murder, like what theyre
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Like when she she said when they asked her to put me in
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And that, uh, so, she she had fears for that?
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Yeah, working people. Yeah. I dont ***. <Sniff> Cause you see em in the alley, doesnt mean you know Yeah. True.
where they live in the building. Its all fucked up, man. Mixed up *** link stuff. Theyre trying Yeah. <Close-cell door> D Ah---Come on. <Sigh> G D G D G D D D G D G G G
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> can prove ***. ***. Why ***? ***. *** .
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Cause thats a cause thats a perfect ***. ***. How am I supposed to know why *** there? ***. Yeah. You explained to me why *** there -Yeah. -- One ***one one kind of a hat that -Yeah. -- I gave the person.
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Doesnt it make sense, yeah, I knew the person ***. ***. I
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to link charges. Then, the detectives, theyre trying to link them.
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D G D G D G D G D G D G
Yeah. That I dont even wear. Its not my hat. Mmnh. Cause it was given over to another person. Hopefully, it didnt have any hair in it. I dont know. Tsk. Man, theyre trying to hang a lot of shit on <No audible response> <Chuckle> What type of person lose their hat ***?
You got Downey. You got Downey detectives after your ass, Ahh, for what? That, I have no idea. Thats bullshit, dude. Monterey Park? Thats my daughters mom. Theyre just trying to scare me. I <Sigh>
I never even been to Downey. D G D D G G
cause they havent been able to catch you.
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man. Im not dumb. <Sniff> G D Im not dumb to do something like that. Oh, Im not saying. Again, Im just saying youre a smart
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Im not smart like that. Bullshit, dude. I can tell youre smart. ***. I can tell youre smart. Smart about what dude? I dont fucking go after shit like that,
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you, brother.
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mother fucker, you know, if you did if you actually did it, youre a smart motherfucker to keep all those homicide detectives at bay. Mmnh-mmnh. G Nah, dude, theyre just coming after my fucking ass at fucking random. They think they have answers. They figure charging *** theyll D into that. G a knife. D G D G D D Yeah. Yeah. Man, the charging charging is one thing. Hmnh-
<Unintelligible sounds/background noises>
Ah, shoot. They need to prove that I carry knives or I *** with
Anyone I know whoever has *** to do about, has fricking Yeah, man, I got ***.
Ive never had a gun. Uhm but I love em. How about a knife? Ill tell you what. I do not use knives. <Chuckle> I would hurt myself. <Laughter> Well, in fact, any of the records Mmnh-hmn? Yeah? Any of the record, like the the ***, haha , it was the Mmnh-mmnh. She was she was manic depressive. I went to her house
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celebritys ex-wife.
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guns. I love guns.
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hmnh. Its not a conviction. *** you just get charged. A lot of work goes
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find *** break and lie to Oh, yeah, I know something about it.
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and the next day she was like Who are you? What are you doing at my house? D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D G D D G D She said that to you? Yeah. And I was pissed So So celebritys wife? Yeah. No shit? So, it was an ex-wife? Yeah, ex-wife. What celebrity? Oh. Oh. Yeah. Some Mexican singer. She she lied and put a restraining order on me just
We dated for six months. I moved in with her.
Famous Mexican singer. So, she lied. And they did a ***. <Laughter> Cause she got mad that I would go and talk to my sons Oh. She got jealous? You know, I told her I was going out one night. Yeah. And she asked me Where you going? So, I took the car Yeah.
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mom. So, she G
uh-her car
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And I came over to see my sons <Sigh>
mom. And ***. So, then, she came and switched the cars-G D G D G D G D G -- Followed me everywhere I went. Like I was a terrorist. She was stalking you? ***. And she wanted out of it. Yeah. Yeah, even though I was dating her.
And I tried to explain it and explain it. *** its not what you Mmnh-mmnh, mnh-mnh.
think, you know were together. I love you.
have sex. That, uhm I put my hands on her neck and forced her to shit. D
Yeah, but that doesnt mean shit okay, a restraining order is <Sigh>
G D D G D G
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dont want to see her. And thats it, right? You didnt have to go to court? ***-No. Did you have a trial or anything? ***. Thats nothing, huh? <No audible response>
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Whatever happened with that? Did they find you guilty? Well, I just told them to put the restraining order on her. And I
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have sex, after it, shoot her and smack her asshole. See, that stuff ***
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And she put a restraining order on saying that I forced her to
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And you dont go see her Not even that. I never even had a sniper rifle. Yeah. Anyone thats ever complained about me has complained Yeah. Im telling you, man, knives scare the shit out of me. I But, it this way. I cut myself as a kid one time. One girl Yeah?
anymore? Shes crazy?
she, uh I had this knife on me. Yeah? <Yawn>
And she says, uhm
herself if someone put a knife on her. G
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you know how to use one. Who the fuck cares? I mean that doesnt mean youre a fucking, uh, ax murderer. Right? G D I dont know how to use a knife, dude. Whatever. I dont know. I hate knives. I fuck, I told you, cut
my fucking self as a kid. And it hurt so fucking bad. Im done. I hate knives. Did you see the big-mans finger?
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Okay.
Okay. So, how does that look bad on me? It doesnt. It doesnt. A lot of people know how to use knives. So so,
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-- In the record, cause the detectives came down on me
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know I will fucking cut myself --every fucking time. I know it.
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about guns never a knife.
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G D G D
No. You you know it was kind of in a curl? Uh-huh. He told me he cant he got that with a fucking knife. Yeah, <Unintelligible background noises>
knives are dangerous as fuck. D Oh, boy. <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> G D G D G D ***.
Yeah. Ill keep my fingers crossed for you, man. Dont you think I would have a bigger record of women You would think so.
Unless unless, its like I said, that youre just the smartest <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:21-18:23>
fucking guy around. Uhmn, umn, or youre super human or something.
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<Clear-throat> <Sigh> <Unintelligible background noises> <Yawn> <Sniff> Ah Oh, boy. <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:24-18:33> <Unintelligible background noises/voices>
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More restraining orders and shit.
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complaining about me if I was such a bad person?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 D J J D J D D G D G
<Yawn> <Unintelligible backgroud noises> <Yawn> <Cough> <Yawn> Uh-uh, no, no, no. Ill probably eat mine later***. Do you want this?
want it you can have it. Thank you, man. Ah-- Fuck me. <Cough> <Blow-nose> <Spit> <Unintelligible background noises>
<Water flow>
<Flush-toilet>
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Ah
<Unintelligible background noises/voices> Brooks? Sir. I have a detective that wants to talk to you. All right. Cool. Put your hands in the box, please. Come out. <Unintelligible background noises> <Sniff>
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***, I can just -- it doesnt look that appetizing. I mean, if you
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 U U U U U G U U U
<Duncan exits cell> <Transcript Time 18:38> <LAPSE TIME: no intelligible conversation; Transcript Time 18:38-18:41> <Dial tone> For English, dial 1. <Beep> <Dial tone> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> Michael, Anthonys client. One moment please. <Beep> quote, dial 7. <Beep> <Ring> <Beep>
Please say your name after the beep.
Thank you for using inmate communication. For a rate
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County Jail using Inmate Communication. The charge for this call is $6.60 for the first minute. One dollar for each additional minute. To refuse the call dial 5 and hang up now. Your call was refused. <Dial tone> <Beep> For English, dial 1. <Dial tone>
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Hello. ***. This is a collect call from Michael, Anthonys client, from the
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 U U U G U U U U G please. U U
<Beep> Dial the phone number now. <Beep> Please say your name after the beep. <Beep> Michael, Anthonys client. I need to speak to Anthony, <Sigh> quote, dial 7. <Ring> Hello. This is ***.
Thank you for using Inmate Communication. For a rate
County Jail using Inmate Communication.
The charge for this call is $6.60 for the first minute. One <Beep>
dollar for each additional minute.
Thank you for using Inmate Communication. Hello? Yeah, Anthony? Uh, no, this is David, actually. Anthonys not in. Im another Uhm, I talked to Anthony yesterday. Hes my, uh, attorney for Okay. Is this Mr. Gargiulo? Yes. Okay. Hi. How are you doing?
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one of the attorneys. How can I help you? G U G U another case. They have me in an El Monte Jail.
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This is a collect call from Michael, Anthonys client, from the
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Im not doing good. Uhm, the
Homicide detectives started talking to me yesterday. Uhm, they tried saying there was a Homicide case in my building a while back, and saying that, uhm, they found, uh, a baseball cap and a shoe they found physical evidence of me in the place to the Homicide case, uhm, and that Santa Monica U G Mmnh. they found a shoe cover -- like the ones they pulled out of my car back in
-- With with the persons blood on it, that was left behind Now, the case, err, being whatever the physical evidence, I
with with my skin evidence on it.
I knew the person-- was an acquaintance with the person. Uhm, and, me for the the Homicide, because the shoe cover was left there and U G Okay.
Uhm, I didnt talk to them. Uhm, and they said theyre gonna
against me and, uh, for other Homicide cases or whatever the case may be. They said they talked to my daughters mom which I dont get along with. But, rrregarding that supposeable case out here, I dont
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know much about but, it was just an acquaintance of a person I met. And, of course, they would have physical evidence in the place. As fars as the shoe covers, uhm, I can answer to that, or whatever the case may be. U G Hmnh. I mean, they would have to explain why the bloods on there.
Ha, You know what Im saying?

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arraign me because theres been other uh, many other detectives
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other physical evidence.
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but, theyre trying to say that Im responsible and theyre gonna arraign
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Yeah. I know what that means.
Okay. So, when when, uhm, -- did they say when theyre going to arrange or arraign you? G I dont know. But, they said theres many different detectives are after me from different towns. So, theyre gonna theyre its just getting out of hand. U G U G U G Thats ridiculous. So, you are you still in El Monte now? Yes, Im in the El Monte Jail. Yeah. And this is just getting out of hand.
And theyre taking you to Monterey Park now?
Theyre like You dont wanna speak. Thats okay. Youre gonna have a uh, time. Uh, if you dont want to talk, thats fine. U G ***. But but, through the whole case or whatever, were gonna
keep hassling you and hassling you and hassling you. And this is just not gonna go away. U Okay. Do you have do you have the detectives names by Yeah. And they said Are you are you willing to sit down
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chance? G
and talk with an attorney present? I said If my attorney advises me to, sure. U G Alright. Uh the, uh-the- they said, uhm, Other detectives have
been hassling you. And, uh, youve just got cases building up. Uh, they
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long trial ahead. Were gonna keep on hassling you through the whole,
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I dont know what the deal is. They they were getting mad.
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gonna Im gonna be in Monterey Park today for another case. And this
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were just they came at 11:00 at night trying to scare me, saying they found a hat, uhm, with the persons blood on it, in my place which is bullshit. Theyre lying. Uh, its a its a hat thats simulated the hat that I wear. But, its not my hat. U G U G U G U G U G U G U G Uh-huh. Okay. -- 890-5587. Okay. And its Joe Purcel. Hes a sergeant. Okay. Uhm, his cell phone number Okay. -- 323- -Mmnh-mmnh. -- 574- -Okay. Uhm, 323
mom. Shes vindictive, trying to get full cont- -- custody of my daughter. My wife even didnt want me to deal with my daughter, cause she said shes a crazy nut. But, during this time, uhm, when this happened, I was
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at home. And she was pregnant with the baby. But, shell do whatever to lie to fucking you know what Im saying? U U G U Yeah. So, she was, basically, telling them that, you know, --- *** -- She, all that the detectives said that she had some very Okay. Im just taking some notes here, so give me a second.
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interesting stories about me.
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-- 4637. And, uhm, they said theyve talked to my daughters
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Uhm, as far as the shoe cover,
uhm, that they, supposedly, found, and that theyre stating, I keep shoe covers at my house. Ive always kept them for my job. Uhm, and, also, Ive offered em to many people. So, I dont know how theyre gonna hang me on a shoe cover. G And they said they had other physical evidence. I dont know U Mmnh, yeah.
uhm, been there a few times. They they said they had a witness stating that, uhm, I would go to the handle and look in the window. Uhm, but, uh, if it was that day that it supposedly happened, its impossible, because they would have arrested me a long time ago. G U G U What was that? U One would think, yeah.
Yeah. They wouldnt wait a year and-a-half after. Well, unless, they were unless, they were putting
were just putting everything together. G U the person that says witnessed me, I used to talk to all the time. So, --
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G U G U
yeah, come on by tomorrow. Lets talk. Yeah. And, uh, wasnt it a common thing to do was knock on the Now, is this a building in El Monte?
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door and look in the window to see if someones home?
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Well, the thing is, I lived in the building. And I whoever is Mmnh-mmnh. And it it would be common sense if someone told you Hey,
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everything together. I mean, you know, its theoretically possible they
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One would think that that they would have, yes.
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what. But but, I was an acquaintance with the person. And and, uh,
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G U G
Yeah where I used to live. Okay, okay, thats where *** just trying to figure out why it But, I you know, uh, to prove that I knew the person, I know
was out there. Okay. a little bit about the person, cause the per the person sat down and oh, she was so beautiful, and this and that. But, I didnt look at her like
and help her with her her if I could bring her clothes in. And we just an acquaintance, talked. And and whatever she said, she was, uh, divorce or whatever the case may be. And so, Ive been to that place a few times. U G stuff, uh U G U U U G address. U And what street it was on even?
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So, as far as them saying they have physical evidence and
Okay. What what was her name? <Unintelligible background noises heard>
G G
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gonna try and look up some information on it. Oh, fuck. Uhm oh, shit. I dont remember my old the add-
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Not even her first name? The first name? Yeah. I believe its *** marie *** Maria. Okay. And what was the address of the building? Im just
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I dont know.
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stuff, uh, of course, they have physical evidence. As far as any other
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Mmnh-mmnh.
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that. She just, one day, asked me to, uhm, help her with her groceries
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talked to me a few times. And theyre trying to make it look that she
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 em. sort.
G U G U G U G U G U
Lower Azusa. Okay. 91731. What was my address back then? How long ago did you live there? About a year and-a-half ago. Okay. Did they tell you the date that this was supposed to I dont remember. They said it was in November of some Okay.
have happened?
November or December. I dont really I didnt really talk to Yeah, I understand that I didnt know if they were telling you
anything or what. Okay. And, I mean, your best course of action, at this look into this and see if we cant get any more information to see if they you know, if theyre actually, uhm, filing a case against you, on on this G a hat? U Why would they arraign me based on a shoe cover and and If they I mean, you know, honestly, if they have any sort of one or not and see see whats going on. So
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physical evidence, whatsoever, they can you know, they can put things together. G U What do they mean by physical evidence? Uhm, whether it be well, physical evidence would be the
you know, the shoe covers, the hat you know, any DNA-type stuff. You know, *** anything proving that you were there, at that time, I guess. G Well, regardless, the hat the hat they showed me, -299
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point, is to to keep not talking to them, because Im gonna certainly
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U G
Mmnh-mmnh. -- Uhm, I could uh, I was wearing a Boston hat of my own.
And the person asked me Hey. So, I gave the person a hat. But, I dont even know if I ever wore it or not. So, thats just common sense why it would be there. not you can explain anything away, doesnt make a difference in in like your ability to to say theres a you know, a reason for anything, is something that comes out later, unfortunately. Its not something that theyre gonna, uhm G Theyre just trying to tack everything on to me. And then, U Yeah. Well, I mean theres explana obviously, whether or
back home in Chicago. There was problems in Hollywood. The those cases. And theyre just trying to nail everything on me for my case a long time ago I didnt cooperate, cause I knew nothing about it. And -- Because what I was saying is Im a business guy. And, if I meet people, how do I know their problems or if anythings gonna happen to them? And I go in their house and my DNA is there, and my a hair theyre st you know
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drops in their house, and something happens to them, uh, you know what Im saying? U G U G U Yeah. This is just getting out of hand. Well, do you have, uh, fairly regular access to a phone? I have this phone. Thats it. No, I know. But, you can you can make a call later today
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detectives are gonna be questioning you again and hassling you on
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they tell me theyre taking me to another court. There was problems
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their eyes, at this point. If they have something, you know, thats thats
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Michael Gargiulo: Part 3 Transcript of &quot;Perkins Operation&quot;

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Michael Gargiulo: Part 3 Transcript of &quot;Perkins Operation&quot;

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Transcript*Time*09:45* Real*Time*June*17,*2008,*11:33*pm*

-- I asked him not to send me to

Yeah. If you get that, dude, Id take it and run.

know, some trustee job up at D

But, I think I can probably get it to where its just a probation

uh, have put put this shit together.

boobs? If you got two or three *** boobs.

like them for, uh

there that night,

He didnt he just went and said that he witnessed me

knocking on the window and knocking on the door or checking in the

haul me in before, if thats the case?

He recognizes you. You live there. Uh, if you if you

courts just a mess.

<Unintelligible background <Cough>

Ha, Im just wondering if you even need to I mean, it

not telling you, then, you gotta worry.

were talking about another alternative uh, a different story? Cause

<No audible response>

And thats what Im saying that, you know remember we

that you dont know about. Right?

Man, of course, my DNA is gonna be in there, anyway, dude.

Any anywhere you go, man. How long have you

You know, cause I wasnt there the day it happened.

<Unintelligible backgound noises>

Like what they are trying they are trying to ***.

I can answer any one of their

you knew the girl. So, fuck it.

I love how the detectives talk so high about people. I dont

Is that how they were coming at you?

saw you do shit. Its all circumstantial. me right away. D D <Cough>

they want to still talk to me?

Well, according to all these people that died. Theyre saying I

leave them outside.

they pulled it unless they put that hat on me,

Yeah, I dont think you need my help on this one, man.

I love that hat.

of mine. They took it from my place, likely , to try to scare me.

on it. Theres no way in hell. Thats what theyre trying to say.

said they were talking to my daughters mom.

was in jail for five years for killing two people.

*** no, shes not credible. <Beep>

understand? I was at home, on my home phone.

uh, murders that theyre gonna try to link to you?

Nothing to do with him.

Yeah. They said theyre gonna be taking me to the Downey

They have two detects detectives together. They

detective was on my tail.

Theyre gonna make you the scapegoat.

Yeah, you can tell, man.

Theyre just trying to see a pattern --

reason we know you did it, because you

No, people that you know. Were some of them strippers?

spending time with *** (Coughing heard).

my DNA was there-- just just my hair or something. Yeah.

they gonna put that together?

I just know theyre trying to link it to me. <Unintelligible background noises>

Dont you think a serial person would do the same thing to

All I know is theyre different cases, man. And theyre trying

No. Yeah, Im just saying that, you know, It is an example is <Cough>

what Im talking about.

better explanation than,

them on even if thats what happened -- thats hard for somebody to

-- The first thing Im gonna think,

Michael Gargiulo: Part 3 Transcript of "Perkins Operation"

Michael Gargiulo: Part 3 Transcript of "Perkins Operation"

TranscriptTime09:45* RealTimeJune17,2008,11:33pm*

Oh, fuck. . Fucking glad that happened there.