Some Info on pH and wait times The initials pH stand for Power of Hydrogen or "Potential of Hydrogen.

Both terms are correct. This is a measure of the activity of hydrogen or hydrogen ion content in a solution. The pH scale measures how acidic or alkaline a product is, compared to pure distilled water. (which is pH 7.0) Only wet substances have a measurable pH. The skins pH is actually the pH on the skins surface from the moisture within the skin, and the "acid mantle" which is part of the protective "barrier" on its surface. Hair for example has no pH. (The acid mantle is a fine film layer, slightly acidic, made up from skin oils, sweat, and dead cells. It is one means the skin uses to protect itself from bacterium, and moisture loss, and environmental damage. Pollutants, harmful bacterium, contaminants are normally alkaline in nature, so a slightly acid skin surface helps fight off these harmful elements and prevent them from entering into, and damaging the skin. Maintaining the acid mantle is recommended for good skin health. When the acid mantle is damaged it takes approximately 14-17 days to repair itself. (assuming no other damaging products are applied to it) A damaged acid mantle leads to a number of skin issues, such as over dry skin, dehydration, over oily skin, flaky skin, acne, sensitivity etc. It would require another long post to detail all this. But incorrect pH products can contribute to acid mantle degradation, and increases in acne causing bacterium on the skin. (More on this below)

The pH Scale The pH scale goes from 0-14, this covers most wet substances, though some substances can be extreamly acid or base, and go beyond this scale. But for skincare products, you will not be using these. -Acids have pH values under 7 - they are more acidic then water (acid) -alkalis have pH values over 7 - they are more alkaline then water (base) -If a substance has a pH value of 7 - it is neutral, like water, (neither acid nor base) The difference between one pH, is one unit of measure, and represents tenfold, or ten times the change. Each whole number below 7 is ten times more acidic then the next higher number. (6.0 to 7.0 for example) Each whole number above is ten times more alkaline. The segments between each whole value are divided into increments of 10ths. Not increments of one. Similar to the way a ruler has both inches, and 16ths of inches divisions between each inch marker ( 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 )

For example, a cleanser with a pH of 6 is ten times more alkaline than a cleanser with a pH of 5. A cleanser with a pH of 7 is 100 times more alkaline then one of 5. Skin pH is 4.5 to 5.5, which is a recommended cleanser range, for best skin health. Because of this, only a few units of pH can make a big difference in how a product or your skin reacts. (A pH scale tells you if a product is more acid or alkaline/base. 7 is neutral - it is equally acid and base. Any number less then 7 is acidic, any number higher then 7 is alkaline)

pH Examples Some pH examples: pH 1 battery acid - (acid extreme) pH 1.5 -2 = Gastric (stomach) acid pH 2.5 = Cola soft drinks pH 2 = lemon juice pH 3 = vinegar ph = 3.5 Orange Juice pH 4.6-5.5 = healthy skin pH 5.5 = rain, (pure water, when exposed to the atmosphere, will take in carbon dioxide, changing its pH) pH 6.5 = milk pH 6.5 7.4 = Healthy Saliva pH 7 = pure distilled water - (this is Neutral pH, neither acid or base)[/color] pH 7.35 7.45 = human blood pH 8.5 = baking soda pH 9 = Sea Water pH 9.0-10.0 = Hand Soap, detergents pH 10.5 = Milk of Magnesia pH 11.5 = household ammonia pH 12.5 = household bleach pH 13 = lye (sodium hydroxide, or Draino)(Alkaline or Base extreme) Skin, and the Acid Mantle Newborn baby skin has a pH of 7. (it is neutral) Within a few months it adjusts to a more "normal" pH of 4.5 to 5.5. This allows their skin to be more resistive to bacterium. Adult skin is normally slightly acidic, a range of 4.5 to 5.5. Different body areas can differ some in pH, and disease and acid mantle damage can alter pH.

But the preferred range for facial skin pH is 4.5 to 5.5. Those with skin disease, skin problems, and stressed skin usually have a skin pH over 6.0. Aged, stressed and damaged skin have more difficulty maintaining a correct pH. As skin pH raises closer to pH 7.0 it becomes less able to function optimally and to kill bacterium. This allows acne causing bacterium to multiply rapidly on the skin surface. Acne bacteria are found on everyones skin, even if you never have a pimple in your life. If you are acne prone, the number of bacterium is greater on your skin. So you have more breakouts. Many things contribute to acne, and can be changed to adjust it. The damaged skin is unable to "manage" the excess bacteria, and they multiply rapidly. Bacterium growth is very slow at pH of 5.5 or less- but a slight shift upward/higher, toward the alkaline levels, causes a marked increase in the reproduction and lifespan of acne causing bacteria. So if your skin is at a higher pH (anything over 6, as damaged skin often is) the acne causing bacteria can multiply much easier and faster. Often faster then your skin can handle. That is a separate post though. Just remember skin pH is one main contributor to acne. Skin pH also has an effect on how irritable skin is, how well it ages, and how it deals with product and environmental stress. This is why it is recommended you cleanse skin with mild, non-irritating products, as close to the skins natural pH as possible. (5.5) Many commercial cleansers are very alkaline, which also changes the skins pH to alkaline levels on the skin surface, for a short time. Many alkaline cleansers are in the same pH range as baking soda, and some are as high as ammonia. This is very harsh on the skin, and can lead to increased irritation, acne, moisture loss, skin aging etc. This allows the bacterium to have a party. mantle, the bacterium growth continues unchecked. With the damage to the acid

As pimples erupt, the skin is less able to heal the zits, or the damage they leave behind. Oil flow increases to try and help balance the barrier, dryness, flakiness, rashes, sensitivity and irritation can also become a problem. All are related to skin that is very stressed, and unhealthy, and cannot balance itself. If a product has a high pH and a larger percentage of a strong irritant detergent ingredient cleanser like sodium lauryl sulfate, or irritant ingredient like peppermint oil or menthol, because of the pH destructive activity on the acid mantle, the detergent can contribute to even more damage then it would if the product pH was closer to 5.5. It literally takes a split second for an alkaline product to degrade the skin barrier enough for an irritant or damaging detergent to penetrate. Some people can handle this better then others, but long term daily use on the skin can contribute to long term issues on all skin types. As skin ages, or the barrier function degrades, it has more difficultly dealing with this type of stress.

Even after 20 min or so, when the skin re-adjusts to its more normal pH (4.5 to 5.5) - it is already damaged, irritated and stressed. The damage recovery involves longer term healing. 14 to 17 days for acid mantle repair. This continued long-term damage, stress, and mild irritation, can prevent the skin from maintaining its best pH level of 4.5 to 5.5. With time, and increased damage, it may tend to stay at the 6 range or higher. As skin become healthier, its pH values lower, and acne growth also lowers. Oil production, dryness, etc all become more "normal" and regulated. Listing of pH of many common cleansers: http://www.dianayvonne.com/category/11.thephofcommoncleanser A few examples from above link: Burts Bees Tomato, Carrot, and Lettuce soaps 10 Dial Soap (liquid and bar) 9.5 Dove Bar, Baby Dove Bar 7 Johnson & Johnson Head to Toe Baby Wash 6.5-7.0 Neutrogena Facial Cleansing Bar Original Formula 8.7-9.2 Paulas Choice (all formulations) 5.5 A product may include the term pH Balanced on the label. This ONLY means it has a pH of 7.0 or neutral, it is balanced between 0-14. Not that is has a pH the skin likes of 5.5. The term has no legal definition. So can be used to mean anything from 5.5 to 7.0. Some products are a good pH, but high in irritants. Which is better then high pH and high irritants, but not great either. A good cleanser cleans the skin without stripping it, and without breaking down the acid mantle, or adding irritants to the skin. It is mild with a 5.5 or lower pH. -------------------------------------------------------

Exfoliating Power of AHAs and BHAs The acids commonly used in skin care treatment products are all pH dependant. (AHAs, BHAs,TCA) The lower the pH, the more effective the acid is on the skin. It will work better, penetrate better and deeper, with a more concentrated effect. It can also me more irritating because it is more powerful

When an acid product is formulated with a pH below 2.0, all of its acid percentage is essentially free or available to work effectively on the skin. For example: A 20% lactic acid product at a pH of 1.9 has 20% of the lactic acid free or available to work on your skin. This is refereed to as the Free Acid Value or FAV. (The FAV is the percentage of acid that is free to actually do something or its true strength) As the pH raises closer to 7.0, less acid is free (less strength) and the acid effectiveness is weakened. So for a true understanding of the strength of your acid product you need to know the acid percentage in the product, and the pH. AHAs (Glycolic, Lactic, malic, citric, and tartaric are the most common) are basically ineffective over 4.0 pH, to exfoliate the skin the skin, the pH must be below 4 pH. Product percentage must be over 5%. (5% to 8% with a pH of 3- 4 is the minimum level for a daily use AHA, this will not treat scars or rebuild collagen) It should be second or third on the ingredient list to be at least 5%. It can moisturize the skin at any pH, and any level. Glycolic and Lactic are the most researched, and penetrate the skin the easiest. BHAs (salicylic acid) are also basically ineffective over 4.0 pH; to exfoliate the skin, and unclog pores, the pH must be below 4 pH. Product percentage must be over 1%. (1% to 2% with a pH of 3- 4 is the minimum level for a daily use BHA (skin with very clogged pores may need higher 5% and lower pH) BHA though penetrating deeper is actually milder then AHA, because it is also has anti-inflammatory effects. It can be toward the middle or end of an ingredient list, because amounts needed are less. A pH test strip or litmus strip will give you the pH. (buy some made with a lower pH range, not all strips go from 1 14) Strips will not be as accurate as a true electronic pH gage, but for home use it will be close enough. Here is the link to Diana's page on FAV and skin remodeling results: http://dianayvonne.zoovy.com/category/16.aboutpeels This shows two charts. The first chart covers the FAV available, and the amount of acid percent needed for specific skin effects. (Exfoliation, collagen rebuilding, skin lightening etc) For example: a 10% (free acid value) glycolic acid (AHA) gives "Significant increase in squamous cell

turnover. Moderate increase in collagen deposition." (a 10% amount of AHA acid working on the skin, removed damaged cells, and rebuilds skin collagen or firmness)

The second chart clarifies how the pH affects the amount of acid available for the skin to use or the FAV For example, the three 20% entries: 20% AHA at a pH of 2.55 has a free acid value (FAV) of 18.6%. (its only REALLY an 18.6% product in effectiveness, because of the pH) 20% at pH 3.4 drops to 14.6% FAV. (its only REALLY a 14.6% product in effectiveness, because of the pH) 20% at pH 4.3 drops to 4.8% FAV. (its only REALLY a 4.8% product in effectiveness, because of the pH) When a 20% AHA product has a pH over 3 it has lost approximately 25% of it exfoliation activity. Once pH reaches 4 pH, it loses 75% of it exfoliation activity. (as many commercial products are formulated, so basically poorly effective) BHAs are effective at slightly different ranges, so the FAV scale differs a bit, but the principle is similar. Skin Biology Exfol serum 2% BHA with a 3.2 pH and Paulas Choice 2% BHA with a 3.4 pH are very similar products, and strengths. Professional Solutions 2% BHA has a pH of 1.9% so is actually much more active on the skin then either Exfol or Paulas Choice, even at the same acid percentage. -----------------------------------------Layering Products and Wait Times pH effects the acid you use and how it works. Another consideration is not to disturb an acid while it is on your skin, which can alter pH and effect it action on the skin. Generally speaking an acid is effective for approximately 20 to 30 minutes on the skin surface, after that point the skin pH has risen enough to lessen the exfoliation action on the skin. The acid is effectively neutralized. During this 30 minute time frame, the acid is working at effective strong levels. Anything applied after 30 minutes will not hamper the effect of your acid, as the pH has already changed, and the acid action has slowed a lot.

Acids that are a high percentage such as 30 % and 40% and above are more concentrated. Therefore their activity can continue for longer, so their action should be stopped at appropriate time with the use of a base rinse (baking soda and water) or a mild detergent cleanser. This will effectively halt the exfoliation action, by raising the skin pH. For the same reason, washing the skin with a highly alkaline product over 5.5, can slow or lessen the effect of your acid. Because the acid must now deal with the high pH level on the skin, And by default low pH applied to high pH creates a high pH, not a low one. The bigger the range difference, the more this will effect your acid action. This is especially true in the case of low pH acids at 2.0 pH or less. So if you use a high pH cleanser, you should wait 30 minutes before using a pH dependant product, to allow the skin to regulate its pH down o about 5.5. Or adjust the pH of the skin down first with an acidic product. Most astringents and toners used for this purpose also contain high levels of irritants such at Alcohols, Witch Hazel, Menthols, Mint oils, etc. These are not the best choices for the skin as they can over strip and degrade the skin barrier. This can also cause an increase in oiliness and acne. If you want to use a toner to adjust pH to lower levels, either use a liquid acid like Paulas Choice BHA or AHA liquid first. Or a very dilute mixture of Apple Cidar Vinegar and distilled water. You could also use Paulas Choice toner which is alcohol free and at a 5.5 pH. But it has added moisturizers, which might effect the acid products penetration action. Even dilute vinegar can be very irritating and drying to the skin. So use you best judgment, and use ratios of 1/3 ACV to 2/3 water or 50/50 mix. Depending on your skin needs and sensitivity. Back off if skin becomes irritated, flaky, over dry or over oily. I personally just prefer to go with a very mild, detergent free 5.5 pH cleanser, and then I dont need to wait or be concerned with the irritation issues. But thats a personal preference. ( I personally like the Geographx Foaming Tea Tree Gel Wash, or Azulene Gel Wash, both at 5.5 pH, detergent free, mildhttp://www.geografx-cosmetics.com ) If you use a BHA product with 3.2 pH. Then immediately apply a treatment product on top, with 6.5 pH, the exfoliation action of your BHA is reduced by 75%. So applying a higher pH to your pH dependant acid will neutralize it sooner, or stop its action at th point you added the higher pH product. Other Products are also pH dependant, and can be affected. Solution of L-Ascorbic Acid forms of Vitamin C are pH dependant. For good stability and effective action, a good Ascorbic acid product is about 2.0 pH. Since Vitamin C absorbs faster into the skin, you can generally have a shorter wait of about 10 to 15 minutes. Because of its fast absorption, it is not generally used as an exfoliate.(Assuming you want to use it as a treatment activity, not simply for its anti-oxidant effects) To work as an anti-oxidant, it is not pH dependant. Not all Vit C serums are low pH. Those made with Vit C blends, or other forms of Vit C have a higher pH,

so less issues. (will cover that in detail in Vit C post) Some Good General Rules: This is Product rules info from DebNir, who used to post on the Diana Yvonne Board, the original post is now gone. 1. Use a mild non irritant, low detergent or detergent free cleanse with a 5.5 pH or lower. 2. If you cleanser pH is higher then 5.5, wait 15 to 30 minutes after cleansing to use a low pH acid, for best exfoliation action. (AHA or BHA) 3. Acids should be applied to freshly cleansed skin, free of all other product for best results. 4. Both acid percentage and product pH must be used to factor total effective acid amounts. (FAV) 5. If using AHA and BHA together, always apply AHA first (after cleansing) unless the BHA solution is a 1.9 level (equal to or lower then your AHA %) In which case apply the BHA first, because it penetrates skin oils better, and will enhance the AHA effectiveness. 6. Acids can be used in many different ways which affect wait times. a) If a 2% or 5% BHA product is used, and rinsed off. Wait until it is rinsed off to proceed (this is a wash off, or rinse off product, less effective then a leave on product) b) If a 2% or 5% BHA product is applied and left on the skin, but not AHA product is following, wait 30 minutes before applying next product. (the 30 minute time frame allows the BHA to work at its most effective, and exfoliate at optimal levels. This is the recommended option for best exfoliation results) c) If a 2% or 5% BHA is applied and left on the skin before a rinse off AHA, you do not need wait to apply the AHA IF the pH of both products is similar and compatible. If you rinse the AHA off after 5 minutes of application (over the BHA) you have also stopped the BHA action at 5 minutes. Both should have a lower effective pH. If the AHA has a higher pH, it will also raise the pH of the BHA, effecting its action also. d) If a 2% or 5% BHA is being left on the skin, before a leave on AHA, you dont need to wait to apply the AHA. Apply BHA, Then AHA, then wait a total of 30 minutes with both products layered, then proceed to next product application. (assuming both acids have the lower pH) e) Do not apply a higher pH BHA before a lower pH AHA. The higher pH product will hinder the lower pH product. Wait 30 minutes between both acids, applying the lowest pH first. Wait 30 minutes working time for each product.

f) If using a higher BHA after a lower AHA product, apply lower pH AHA first. Wait 30 minutes for it to work. Then apply higher pH BHA on top (no rinse needed), and wait 30 minutes for the BHA to work. Then apply other activities, no rinse off needed. g) If you need to rinse products off sooner then 30 minutes to shorten activity and lessen irritation, you can rinse with water, before proceeding to the next step. (If using a high strength AHA or BHA, at strong professional peel level strength, you will neutralize product with baking soda and water, and rinse off before proceeding to your next step) h) Apply low pH before high pH. If you are using a lower pH BHA over another higher pH product to act as a penetration enhancer, then it can be applied over the lower pH product. Just remember you loose the BHA exfoliation effect. Other Activities: This is Product layering info from DebNir, who used to post on the Diana Yvonne Board, and is familuar with the product by that company. Retinols, Retinoids, Vitamin A products: These products are often pH dependant, and can work as a mild exfoliate type product. Apply to clean dry skin, once to twice a day, Wait 15 to 30 minutes before adding other activates. DCX: This is an eye treatment product with soy. It is not an exfoliate. Should be applied to clean skin, once or twice a day. Apply after acids and cleansers, before copper and other treatments. Wait time of 10 minutes to allow it to absorb. Then apply other products. DMAE: No ph Limits, can be used after acids and cleansing. Formulation type can dictate placement. Liquids, gels and serums can be applied before CP serums, lotions and creams. Lotion and cream DMAE should be applied after CP serums and creams. Wait time of 10 minutes to allow product to absorb. Product Application by type This is a rough guide for product application, based on type/absorbency. This is for products that are not pH dependant, nor limited by activity type. The thickness of a product, dictates its placement. You cannot apply a think product (like a liquid) over a thick product (like a cream) and expect it to absorb well. The cream can be a barrier to the thinner product. -Cleanser (may need to wait before exfoliate, if pH is a concern)

(optional pH adjusting product could be used here, after cleansing) before acid) -Exfoliate (usually requires a wait time) -Toner (Liquid water like products, such as toner/treatment solutions, liquid DMAE) -Serum (Copper Serum, treatment Serums, DMAE thicker products) -Gel (DMAE, deffrin) -Oils (Emu, Jojoba, Almond, etc) -Creams -Sunscreen -Foundations

This info is compiled from a number of web and printed sources. Some info came directly from some old posts I had saved, authored by DebNIR from the Diana Yvonne Skincare board. Some of those posts are now gone. One post is here. I think you need to be a member to view it. You may find some of her others there still. http://www.theskincareboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1266&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc &highlight=&sid=c3c5f36220378df62a07778c1bc98199 It is in this area: The SkinCare Board Forum Index -> Cleansers -> Help Deb - Looking for post which explains pH...