Scearce, William - (Investigation Testimony)

Transcript of the Testimony of William Scearce
Date: November 6, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation
Printed On: November 13, 2013
Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. Phone: 417-358-4078 Fax: 417-451-1114 Email:daholliday@hotmail.com Internet:
William Scearce
In Re:
Joplin Critical Investigation
Page 1
IN RE:
JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION
SWORN STATEMENT OF
WILLIAM SCEARCE
Taken on Wednesday, November 6, 2013, from 10:24 a.m. to
12:10
p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.
Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078
In Re: William Scearce
Page 2
APPEARANCES
MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065
tellaw@loraineandassociates.com
REPRESENTING THE WITNESS MR. CHARLES S. GENISIO Parrish, Cross, Genisio, Hawkins & Coble, LLC 702 S. Pearl Joplin, MO 64801
William Scearce
In Re:
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S T I P U L A T I O N
IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4
E X H I B I T S
Exhibit #A.
5-20
Advice of Rights
Note:
Exhibits in separate binder
(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. yes. BY MR. LORAINE: BY MR. GENISIO: (By Mr. Loraine) will sign this. Exhibit #A? Yes. A. Q. WILLIAM SCEARCE Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: Q. Sir, my name is Tom Loraine. We had an
opportunity to visit with you and your attorney who is in the room, Mr. Genisio, is that correct? Yes, sir. And I have a form which I normally have the person that I'm interviewing read and then I read it to them, then I ask them if they understood what it said. In this case you've
got counsel sitting in this room with me and I'm just going to ask counsel, has your client been advised of the contents of this document? BY MR. GENISIO: We've discussed it,
I'm going to ask you if you I'd like to print your name
and then sign your name below it, date it, and I'll witness it.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. (Witness complies) How do you pronounce your name, sir? Scearce. Mr. Scearce, you have executed Exhibit #A that I've handed you, is that correct? Yes, sir. And it's your intent to cooperate and tell the truth here today? Yes, sir. You've been sworn in? Yes, sir. All right. Mr. Scearce, I'm going to make a
note your attorney will remain in the room while we do this, however this isn't a situation where I'm going to be confronted with objections and things of this nature. Certainly if your attorney wants to make a record note I don't mind that, but as a practical matter according to this rights thing we're here, I'm here as you know by invitation from the Council, to investigate two matters primarily. One is certain
involvement you might have or might have had with a gambling, illicit gambling. And the
other one is a complaint about Woolston and
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Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. where he might be in the redevelopment area and if he has any conflicts of interest or anything that's occurred out of that. There
are some collateral issues that will come up, but I think you certainly voted to ask me to do this. Yes, sir. And so I don't guess we have to explain too much more. That being the case, Mr. Scearce, you are now a member of the Joplin City Council? Yes, sir. And how long have you been a member? I was elected in 2008, re-elected in 2012. Now there has been an issue of illicit gambling investigations raised to me and I guess in the press and on the air, on a radio station. I've got some articles that you've
said and been quoted in those articles saying that you at one point owned a building and somebody rented it from you and that person eventually some subsequent years after you were no longer their landlord was indicted for gambling? Yes, sir, I'd like to clarify the fact that I
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. rented the building. Okay. I did not own it.
You rented the building?
Yes, sir. Who was the owner of the building? Pat Hale Real Estate Company. What was your position? I was the operator of a temporary employment service. The name of the service was Olsten
and I operated it from that location with offices in other surrounding towns, in Pittsburg and Baxter Springs over in Kansas, in Neosho and Carthage and Joplin, and Miami, Oklahoma I had branch offices, but the main office was in Joplin. What was the name of that, sir? Olsten, O-L-S-T-E-N. And that was a temporary placement -Temporary employment, sir. At one time I had It
as many as 2,500 people working for me. was a large operation. business in 1991. And when did you no longer operate that business? I started the
It was sold, the Olsten operation was sold to Adecco in the year 2000, and Adecco took over
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Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. the operation at that point in time. Including this location? Including the operation I had, that location to rent, they assumed all the responsibilities. Were you then subleasing that for your purposes, that building? I was just leasing it from Pat Hale. Did you work for Pat? No, I worked for Olsten Temporary Employment Service. I just rented it from him just as
if I rented a store front from anyone else. But my point was when you leased to this fellow that ran the gambling operation was that a sublease of your lease? No, it was just a lease. There was no signed lease. I see. So technically it was still under He just used it.
your lease? Yes, sir. What was the man that ran the gambling operation's name? Kenny Lovett. And Kenny Lovett was subsequently indicted by the Federal Bureau of Investigations, U.S.
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Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Attorney's Office in what year to the best of your recollection? 2011. And then is he doing time now? No, he pled guilty and I think his judgment was he was confined to his home at least the way they reported in the newspaper was for a period of time and had to pay a fine, and I think he had to not go into any gambling facilities anywhere. finished. He's out. Then I think he's He never did any jail
time according to the reports in the paper. Do you still know Kenny Lovett? Yes, sir. Do you know how I can get hold of him? Call him on the phone. Do you have a phone number? No. Can you provide me with one? May be able to. Would you have your attorney give me a call on my cell number? I'd like to have
opportunity to talk with him if he, in fact, will talk with me. I'll ask you if you can
try to get that number for me.
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Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. Yes, sir. My understanding is you've read an article in the paper what Ken Lovett said about your renting situation with him. article? What did it say? What was that
I didn't read an article in the paper about that. He called me.
Oh, Mr. Lovett called you? Yes, sir. What did he tell you? He told me he had a telephone call from Carol Stark who is the Editor of the Joplin Globe and that Mrs. Stark asked him if I knew he was going to use that building for gambling when I rented it to him, and he told me that he told her no. And is that true that you did not know? At the time when he rented it I did not. found out later that he did. So what year was it that he rented this building from you? 1991 to 1995 or 1996. During that period of time you said subsequent after he rented this building some time after that you found out that he was I
William Scearce
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Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. running an illegal gambling operation? long after your rent? Not very long. Well, months, days, years? Months. Maybe weeks. It was very active How
over there. So weeks after 1991 you learned that there was some kind of gambling operation going on? Yes, sir. Is that what we call bookmaking? Yes, sir. Did you participate in the bookmaking? No, sir. Did you know of any policemen that worked for the City that actually participated in that gambling? I couldn't swear one way or the other, but my best guess is probably yes. Not interested in your guess, I'm interested in anything you know. I couldn't say yes or no. So you had never personally seen it? Well, I was busy getting my business started and I had very little time. I was trying to
start a brand new business and quite honestly
William Scearce
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Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. I was more interested in that than what was going on in the building next door. It is a freestanding building. I mean it stands on I
the lot, it's a freestanding building.
knew that there was gambling going on over there, certainly. I mean if you looked
around you could certainly tell it. But you, yourself, did not participate in that gambling at that location? No, sir, I did not, no. It's my understanding I read an article somewhere somehow you talked with an attorney about your -I called the -Let me finish my question. Okay. Sorry.
You talked with an attorney about your knowledge of this gambling operation, is that right? That is correct. Can you tell me who that was? No, sir, I cannot even remember. My guess is They
that attorney - Olsten exists no more.
were absorbed by Adecco when Adecco came in. Olsten was your company?
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Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Yes, sir. And did this attorney work for the Olsten company? Yes, sir, he was an attorney with specialty in personnel. And you met with this attorney? No, sir, I talked to him on the phone. And what was your purpose in talking with the attorney? I said, "I've got some gambling going on next door. What should I do about it?" He said,
"Don't do anything. And did you do that? Yes, sir.
Just stay away."
I will say Mr. Lovett used my Other than that we
restroom occasionally. had no contact.
Was there a restroom in that building? No, sir, there wasn't. The building was
about half the size of this room. From a practical standpoint we're talking about what we would almost describe as a cabin of some sort, small? It was a small room that was at one time used as an office for a car lot that was on the property.
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Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. But there was no restroom in that building? No, sir. Where did the people that participated in the gambling, where did they go to the restroom? Would they use your other facility? No, it was not - I would assume that they just went and placed their bets either by telephone - most of it I would assume would have been by telephone. So there wasn't -Gambling on the side. No gambling on the side? No, other than just I want to place a bet on a football game. And that was some time in 1991 that you learned about that, had a discussion with the attorney, and he told you to forget it? Yes, sir, he said just forget it, stay away. I asked him it's a freestanding building. said is it attached to your building and I said no and he said just forget it. Is that the extent of your participation in this gambling? Absolutely. You said you had locations for the company He
William Scearce
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Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. you were starting up in a lot of different areas and in several states, is that right? Yes, sir. Was there gambling in any of those facilities? No. Because the gambling operation is alleged to have been multi-state gambling, you don't know anything about that, do you? I have got no idea about anything that happened anyplace in any other location, no. Did the FBI talk with you about this gambling operation? Yes, they interviewed me, and I'm going to have to guess on dates, okay? Yes. They interviewed me, the head FBI agent and a gentleman who was a liaison officer with the Joplin Police Department to the FBI interviewed me at my office and they asked me did I rent the room to Kenny Lovett and I said yes. And they asked me if I was
involved with Kenny Lovett as a partner or as a gambler and I said no. honest truth. And that is the
William Scearce
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Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. And that's the extent of the -No, we talked about many things other than that. We talked about how big the gambling
was, and I had no idea the gambling was as large as it is. They asked me about any
other gamblers that I knew, and I did not know that this Bill Lyle was associated with Kenny Lovett at that point in time. Later
found out by newspaper articles that he was, but I never saw him over there. Did you know that there was an officer of the Police Department named James, I think, that subsequently lost his job over gambling at that location? You're talking about Geoff Jones? Jones. Geoff Jones? Yes. Did I know that? Yes. Yes, I know that. Did you know that he was actually visiting the site? I never saw Geoff Jones there. So you just learned that from the newspaper?
William Scearce
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Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I know him. there. Did you in any way participate with Geoff Jones in gambling at that site? No, I didn't gamble at all at that site. didn't gamble at all. You're not a gambler? No, sir, not right now. Have you ever been? Yes, sir. When did you gamble? Back when I owned an Army surplus store. When was that? '78. Okay. Was that just a source of I I know him, but I never saw him
entertainment for you? Yes, sir. There's been some discussion, and I'm going to show you what's been previously marked as Exhibit #1 in a different statement, and ask you have you ever seen anything like that document? Yes, sir. You didn't hesitate when you saw it. recognized it right away? You
William Scearce
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Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yes, sir. And what is Exhibit #1 a copy of? It's a blown up copy of a note that I became aware of that was presented to me that has some names on it. Is your name on it? No. Carol Stark's name is on there? Yes, sir. And there's a date on there? Yes, sir. What is the date? August the 12th of 2013. Is there anything significant about that date? Yes, sir, that is two days prior to the telephone call that I received from Kenny Lovett. At that time Carol Stark did call him and asked if you had any involvement? Yes, sir. What else happened on or around that time? Any newspaper articles come out? I don't remember. may have. I don't remember. They
I know that when I look at this
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Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. it's a blown up copy. Right. Who presented that to you?
City Attorney. And that's Mr. Head? Yes, sir. When did Mr. Head give you that? I don't remember the date. Well, obviously -It was obviously after this date. Obviously
after the 14th because when I recognized the date of August the 12th I recognized that was the date two days after, two days prior to the telephone call of Mr. Lovett. Carol
Stark called him that afternoon and then he called me that evening at home. Do you know whose handwriting is on that note? It appears to be the handwriting of the City Manager. Do you recognize that yourself? Well, I said appears to be. I'm not a
handwriting expert, but it does appear to be his handwriting. I have seen his handwriting
obviously being a City Councilman. And prior to today you had made the
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Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. conclusion that it was the City Manager's handwriting? Oh, yes. Yes, when I saw the - this is much The one I saw was
larger than the one I saw. a -Sticky note.
Yeah, a yellow sticky note that people use all the time. And at the time that you saw the note originally when the City Attorney handed it to you were you able to identify that it was the City Manager's handwriting then? I thought it was his handwriting. to be his handwriting. And that was your opinion then and it's still your opinion? Still my opinion. Several lines down there it has, "Continuing criminal activity" or something like that? "Contributing to a criminal activity". There It appears
is something up here written and I don't know what any of these other - I don't know what this means and I don't know what that is there (indicating). written in here. There is this FBI
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Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. In what context did Mr. Head give you this note? It had the FBI on it. He gave it to me and
said that it was found in a public location at City Hall by an individual who wished to remain anonymous, although I know the name of the individual. You do know? Yes, sir, I do. Well, let me ask you this question. Is there I
any reason why I should know that name?
mean I don't see to make that public, do you? You don't want to make it public? I don't think so. The name of the person is Becky Brill. Now it will be public. Well, I mean I would hate - Becky Brill asked that it not be made public because she is afraid of retaliation on her family. does not live here anymore. for the City. She
She doesn't work She is
She did at the time.
afraid of, this is what she has said, she is afraid of retaliation by the City Manager against members of her family. And that's a
shame because one should not be afraid.
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Page 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. All right. Mr. Rohr. -- Mr. Rohr. So this individual, Brill, The City Manager being --
found this in a public place and gave it to Attorney Head, is that right? That's correct. And then Mr. Head at a meeting gave this to you? Yes, sir. And who else attended that meeting? No one but he and I. Why did he know that this concerned you? This was during a period of time when I had been talking to him about and giving him the same information I'm giving you about the FBI investigation. So the attorney had several years ago - when was this given to you, what date? Some time after August the 12th. Of 2013? 2013, yes. So as of at least that time Attorney Head has previous discussions with you concerning this gambling charge that you're facing? I'm not facing a gambling charge.
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Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Well, you are at the City. Well, I didn't gamble. But in any case that was the time period that you had talked with Attorney Head prior to receiving this note? Yes, sir. So that's why Attorney Head knew that this was concerning you, this note? Yes, sir. There also was another statement
that he was privy to people being told that Mr. Rohr had stated in front of employees of the City that if Scearce, and I'll quote, "If Scearce ever came after me I'm going to use the gambling against him and take him down." So that statement came about prior to you receiving this note? Yes, sir. And this note is what you probably believe that, at least this note seems to indicate that the attorney for the City Manager had this information contained on this note at the time that he made that statement? you understand the question? No. My question is, let me go back, my question Did
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Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. is I'm trying to get why City Attorney Head would bring this matter to you, why he would know that this note was about you. what I'm trying to get at. Because we had discussed the FBI report previously and we had discussed my interview with the FBI previously and we had discussed the name of the gentleman who was the gambler, and it's my belief that when he saw FBI, Lovett, Carol Stark, that he believes that would involve me. Okay. That's how it happened? That's
My belief. All right. this off -No, sir. -- of the desk of the City Manager? No, sir. that? Sure. This note was found according to the lady who found it in front of the elevator in the public area on the second floor of City Hall. Is there a restroom there? Yes, sir, there's a men's and a women's Would you like for me to expand on So nobody surreptitiously stole
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Page 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. restroom there. And it was on the floor? It was on the floor. Have you, yourself, talked with Becky? No. So that information came to you through -Mr. Head. -- Attorney Head. Can I expand on that? Certainly. Ms. Brill was an employee of the City of Joplin. I as a Council member felt it was
inappropriate for me to have any discussion with her until such time that she is no longer an employee of the City of Joplin. She has left town and I have not talked to her since. She lives in Arkansas. I would
like to explain something else. former City employee.
I am a
I used to be the Parks
and Recreation Director and I understand as a Council member the difference between Council members and employee and how people should never cross the line, and I don't cross the line ever because I've been on both sides of it.
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Page 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Do you believe that the retaliation that she suggested is possible given the fact that there is a separate Police Chief I guess under the City Manager? a possibility? That the police would retaliate against her? I don't know. I would certainly hope not. I can't tell you what I Do you think that's
respect Lane Roberts.
her theory is because she never expressed it to me. But there was genuine fear I am sure.
Do you know anyone else that is in a state of possible fear from the City Manager? Has
that concept come to your attention before? Yes, sir. How is that? Many employees of the City of Joplin are scared to death of their jobs if they speak out against actions that Mr. Rohr takes. And you know that as a Councilman? That is rumor that has been spread and you have to understand that I was one of the individuals who voted to discharge Mr. Rohr for that very reason. That's one of many
reasons why I voted to discharge him. How many people voted to discharge him?
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Page 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Originally five, and then one of them changed their mind. And how many did it take? Five. BY MR. GENISIO: Four. I think it was four.
Can I expand on that? Sure.
(By Mr. Loraine)
If you'll bear with. Absolutely. There were five Council members that went into a closed door session who had committed to discharge or to ask for Mr. Rohr's resignation. If he didn't give it then a
resolution of discharge would be passed and he would be discharged. During that meeting
one of the members indicated, it was the Mayor and this is in the paper, it's not news, that she was going to change her vote. Is that the present Mayor? Present Mayor. Then we went about leaving
the meeting after a lot of discussion and later that night the Mayor called me on the phone at home and said she had been praying about the vote and that she was going to change her mind and vote to discharge Mr.
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Page 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Rohr. Would I meet with her and Mr. Rohr on This was on a Monday evening. We
Wednesday.
met on Wednesday morning at her office in City Hall and she told Mr. Rohr that she had changed her mind, she was voting to ask for his resignation. He said no. And then there
was quite a bit of discussion and she eventually after all the discussion said, no, I'm going to change my mind again. So at that point in time we decided that we would hold another meeting of the Council to go through a way that we could get - Mr. Rohr's main concern was that he had never received any direction from the Council on how he should perform his job. It is my opinion that Mr.
Rohr has been in the business long enough that he knows how to perform his job. He
doesn't need micromanagement by members of the City Council. Is it your opinion that he does not properly discharge his duties? It is my opinion that Mr. Rohr does discharge his duties. his duties. Can you tell me why? I think he improperly discharges
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Page 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Why? Because he never allows anybody to have I've been on the
any disagreements with him.
Council for six years when he's been there and not once has Mr. Rohr ever admitted that he made a mistake, it's always somebody else's fault. I also believe that he does He
operate with fear and intimidation.
should be the individual who administers the policy and we as a Council should be the policy makers. all the time. boss. Mr. Rohr crosses that line He thinks that we are not his
If he doesn't want to do something he Even after the Council
just doesn't do it. directs him to do it.
Has there been any further efforts to discharge him after that initial vote? Absolutely not. Do you know why the Mayor, present Mayor, changed her vote a couple of times? You'll have to ask her. Oh, I probably will do that. Let me ask you,
is there any way that the City Manager could, in fact, have threatened her? I don't know. You've not heard anything like that?
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Page 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. A. I've not heard anything like that. give you some speculation. Give me the speculation. The Mayor started a new restaurant and in that restaurant she borrowed money from the Chamber of Commerce that has a $300,000.00 contract with the City to provide economic development. to her. That may or may not be a threat She says it's not. I can
I don't know.
Does the City give money to that Chamber of Commerce who then loans money out? my understanding? It was not that money that was loaned to her, it was different money from a different source. But it still, the City does -We give money to the Chamber of Commerce to do economic development for us. And then that Chamber of Commerce loans that money out? They loan it out, they use it to perform economic development. And the Mayor has that loan? No, the Mayor has a loan from a different location, different money. Is that
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Page 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. Q. A. But it's still from the Chamber of Commerce? Still from the Chamber of Commerce. Not from
the Chamber of Commerce, but from trusts that the Chamber of Commerce administers. Different money definitely than the City funds? Absolutely. No doubt about that.
Buy there is a direct correlation, I mean there seems to be a natural correlation in my mind that I could see where someone would believe that the City Manager had some control of that. Do you agree with that?
No, he doesn't have any control over that money at all. So that would not be the reason that -Probably not. not fact. Have you had other employees or are you aware of any other employees that fear the City Manager? Am I aware of it? Indirectly I am. All I give you is speculation,
What other employees? The Parks and Recreation Director. Who is that? Chris Cotten.
William Scearce
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Page 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Is Chris Cotten the present? Yes, sir. Anybody else? Do you want me to expand on how I know that? Yes. I read from a female, from a law firm at my current location, the wife of the lawyer was at a time a member of the Parks and Recreation Board. The Parks and Recreation
Board on its own wrote a letter to the City Council. I don't have the letter, but it The contents said we need I was told by this
doesn't matter.
other things to be done.
lady, her name is Dawn Sticklen, that Chris Cotten was almost fired was the word that she used because the City Manager thought he allowed the Parks and Recreation Board to write a letter when he had nothing to do with it. When the City Manager didn't know about it? When the City Manager didn't know about it. And Chris didn't know about it. BY MR. GENISIO: the point. Chris didn't know about it either. That I Yeah, I think that's
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. know of specifically. That is a direct - and
you can talk to Mrs. Sticklen, I've got her phone number if you'd like to have it. (By Mr. Loraine) I sure do. here. Have you got it now?
Hold on a minute and I can get it
There it is, 437-5057. Is she
Would she come in and talk with me? presently a City employee? No, she was never a City employee.
She was a
member of the Advisory Board, the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. Do you think she would talk with me? About that? Yes. I think so. She's a current member of the
School Board, but she would probably talk to you about that. Anyone else that you know that works for the City that feels threatened in some fashion by the City Manager? Directly? Yes. No. Anybody indirectly? Yes.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Who is that? Of course I think that Brian Head feels threatened by the City Manager. I feel that
Barbara Hogelin feels threatened by the City Manager. There are a number of employees who
have left the employment of the City for reasons of whatever they may be who were probably threatened. Who would some of those names be? Steve Cope, an individual that was the head building inspector. Jack Schaller. Schaller,
BY MR. GENISIO: S-C-H-A-L-L-E-R.
Jack Schaller, S-C-H-A-L-L-E-R. (By Mr. Loraine) Do you have phone numbers
for any of those folks? No, not for either one of them. Can you get me some, get me phone numbers? I'll give you a try. Why don't we try that. I will. Jack currently operates a - he left
employment to go into business with another company. I don't know whether or not he
would say that he was threatened by Mark because he wants contracts with the City, and
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. if he does there's a good chance he won't get them. Whether he'll tell you that or not, I And also I don't know how Leslie
don't know.
Jones, I don't know what her name is, Haase, feels threatened or not. Who is that? She's the Finance Director. What's her last name? BY MR. GENISIO: H-A-A-S-E. H-A-A-S-E.
And I am told that she was one of
the individuals who heard Mark make the threat against me that if I ever came after him he would - he bragged about it. (By Mr. Loraine) And that's the threat that
he would take you down because of this gambling note? Well, that's the threat because of the - I was interviewed by the FBI, I wasn't questioned, and there is a difference. as an attorney probably know that. You don't think you were a target of the investigation? Oh, no, I was an information provider of the investigation. I think that what's the guy's You
name from Seneca?
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Former City Police Chief? No, former City police officer who was a liaison officer with the FBI. name? BY MR. GENISIO: (By Mr. Loraine) James Altic. What was his
You're going to get me a
phone number for him? Yes, Seneca Police Chief. We can write that
down and get you the phone number, yes, sir. James Altic. He was there at every interview I had with the FBI. Would he be under the control in any way of Lane Roberts in that situation? Not now. Would have when he - he was a
Joplin police officer. Would he talk to me about your interviews? I would imagine he would. reason why he wouldn't. ask him. I don't see any I mean you'd have to
He's a nice guy, though. The more the better.
Will make that contact.
I was not given a mandate particularly to investigate the City Manager's abusive nature, per se, but it has now come up, and I'm going to pursue that. Is there any other
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Rick. (By Mr. Loraine) Rick. Rick? Q. A. indications that you can give me of this kind of, I don't know what it's called other than an abusive situation? During the storm I had become aware of a situation that I would like to explain. The
City Manager had his secretary, who is a very nice lady, call the Goodyear store in Joplin and ask if he could come down and get his tires fixed because he'd been working the storm. The gentleman in charge said you can
come down and get in line and I've got a lot of customers here. gentleman. And I have talked to that
He runs the Goodyear store at
20th and Range Line in Joplin and he will talk to you because I have interviewed him and asked him if he would talk to the investigator. What's his name? BY MR. GENISIO: Is it Rick?
He is the manager of the store.
Do you know his last name? You would have to ask. If you have a phone number and a name would
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. be handy. What would he tell me?
He would tell you that the City Manager called him, the secretary called him - I'll tell you what he told me. The secretary
called him and asked if the City Manager could come down and get his tire fixed real quick and he said I have customers waiting here, he'll have to get in line. thank you and hung up. She said
A few minutes later
he was called by Mr. Rohr and asked by Mr. Rohr if he could come down and get his tires fixed and said I don't put people in front of other people. I've got 20 people sitting
here, you're welcome to come down and ask any of them if you can break in line in front of them and if they'll let you I'll fix your tires. Mr. Rohr hung up. I am told, it's
not a fact, I am told that Mr. Rohr went to the Finance Director, because you can ask her, and told her stop buying tires from Goodyear. BY MR. GENISIO: Meaning the City?
The City to stop buying tires from Goodyear. And I asked Rick if they had sold anything to the City after that event and he said no.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Charlie? Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. I'll have to find out his name, but he will talk to you. (By Mr. Loraine) -Leslie Haase. Did Leslie tell you that? Did Leslie tell me that? How do you know that then? How do I know that? Who told me that? I No. And this Finance Director
don't remember, but if I get a name I will call you. If I remember it - I will rack my I'll call Charles.
brain to try to. All right.
BY MR. LORAINE:
Is that okay,
Do you want to make a note of that? BY MR. GENISIO: Yes.
I'll try to think who told me that. (By Mr. Loraine) with Charles. I'll probably be in touch
Anything else along those
lines you can think of? No. Apparently there's some bad feelings between you and the City Manager for a number of different reasons that you pointed out here? Yes, sir, a number of different reasons.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. I've been associated with City Managers since I got out of college in 1963 and I have never in my career found a City Manager who was more egotistical, more self-driving, more of a bully and an intimidator than Mr. Rohr is. I guess that's why you've taken the steps that you've attempted? That is one of the reasons that I wanted to fire him. In addition to the fact that he
doesn't understand the difference between policy and administration. There's been some discussion about this firm Bajjali. Yes, sir. They stand to gain some maybe 80 million dollars or so if all the projects that they suggest come to fruition? Yes, sir. I've heard that there's been some discussion about them at the various City Council meetings. that realm? What has been your experience on Do you have any negative
comments about them? Yes, sir, I do. Can you give me those?
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. We've had a contract with David Wallace for a year or longer. than a year. Actually it's been longer
David Wallace to this date has
not turned one spade of dirt. And all the development that's taken place in Joplin has taken place in the private sector without any tax incentives from Joplin. We have a senior
housing project that's going on right now that's on the drawing boards of which 35 percent of the equity in the project is public funds. I voted against it because I That's too much
find that to be excessive.
public in the public/private partnership. Last minute decisions that just have to be made at that point in time without knowledge of what's going on happens all the time. Is that last minute decisions by the City Manager or by Wallace-Bajjali? Wallace-Bajjali and the City Manager, both. We are never informed until the last minute. I've understood that you have talked with the City Manager about the City Attorney's involvement or lack of involvement in the Bajjali project? Yes, sir, I have.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. And can you tell me something about that? Yes, sir, I believe that if you go into a contract negotiation without your attorney you're a fool. The City Manager negotiated
all the contracts or had done that with Wallace-Bajjali without the attorney present. Still continues to try to cut the attorney out of the situation primarily because he would like to do things that the City Attorney might find objectionable, and by going ahead and doing them we as a Council get put in the position where we have to make a choice or not doing it or going along with whatever is there. One of the examples I
will cite for you is the contract, the initial contract that we've had with David Wallace that provides him with 5.75 percent of a real estate fee at the time property is bought, and then another 5.75 percent at the time the property is sold even though he may be the buyer. That is in my mind 11.5
percent excessive in terms of real estate fees. range. They're normally in the 6 percent The other is the contract, the
buy-out contract which was 5 million dollars
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. without costs for the first year, declining to nothing at the end. I don't know why that
was there other than the fact that if you just want to get rid of them you've going to have to pay to get rid of them. That
contract was either a take it or leave it. The City Manager negotiated that contract without the attorney and I just think that's being foolish. I mean he's not an attorney.
I'm sure that Mr. Wallace would not sign a contract without his attorney looking at it, but we have to sign a contract without our attorney looking at it. policy. we make. That should be our
That should be the policy decision And yet I did require - the Mayor
and I asked that Mr. Head be involved in all meetings where Mr. Wallace and Mr. Rohr were together. I guess my question is, if I'm
being criticized for feeling that way I don't understand why. Has Mr. Head complained about his inability to get to these contract negotiation sessions? Yes, sir. That's been a longstanding complaint?
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Yes, sir. So you think the results are negative for the City without having the attorney there? I think the City can be put in danger and at risk without having legal advice on any contract you sign. Doesn't the board have the opportunity to have the contract reviewed? Or you're saying
during the terms of the contract the attorney should be there? During the time while the contract is being developed the attorney should be there from the very start, yes, sir, I believe that. That is one of the conflicts I've had with Mr. Rohr. He does not want the attorney
there because there may be questions raised that he might be objecting to. It's a guy's job, isn't it? What? It's the City Attorney's job? It's the City Attorney's job. that's his job. He should be -
He's there to protect the
City and if he's not invited into meetings he can't protect the City. The City Attorney in this form of government,
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. don't they both, the City Manager and the City Attorney, work directly for the Council? Yes, sir. And there's a contract, isn't there? Yes, sir. Have you put it in his contract that he needs to keep the City Attorney advised? No, but he's been directed to do that. Have you directed him to do that in writing? No, sir. Just in notes, in City meetings? Direct orders from members of the Council. Individually or as a Council is what I'm saying? I don't remember if the Council was ever discussed as a Council, but we certainly should if we haven't. Yes, you should, and you probably ought to pass some sort of ordinance or vote, resolution, whatever is appropriate there. If you expect him to follow the law you ought to probably lay the law down. As an
individual you probably don't have any authority over him, but certainly as a Council you do.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. That is correct, we certainly should. that's our fault. Is there a complaint among the majority of the Council against Bajjali's inaction? I don't know. There are some members of the And
Council, I don't know whether it's a majority or not, that feel that the inaction is inexcusable. More than you is what you're saying? More than me. All we've done is buy property
and make money on it. Do you have any knowledge of any money being passed back from Bajjali to the City Manager? No, I don't believe that the City Manager - I don't believe he's a dishonest person. Who works for Wallace-Bajjali that would be a possible source of somebody I could talk with other than Mr. Bajjali and Mr. Wallace? They have two employees in town. Who are they? Bruce Anderson. Bruce? Bruce. Gary Box.
Gary Box? Uh-huh.
William Scearce
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Page 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. B-O-X? Uh-huh. Do you have phone numbers for those guys? I have one for Gary. Who is senior in that group? I don't know what the status of their - I mean I don't know the internal workings of their department. I mean I really don't know Gary
who is the guy in charge over there. Box. see.
Well, let me put on my glasses so I can 434-3351.
Before I assume the City had let out a bid for tire purchasing from Goodyear? I think that the City was operating off the state bid. And Goodyear would comply to that? I think. In any case the City was buying tires from Goodyear before? That's what I'm told. And you think Leslie Haase will confirm that? A. I don't know what she'll confirm. I just
know what Rick told me. Leslie Haase works for the City Administrator?
William Scearce
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Page 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. Yes, sir. And you've mentioned her as someone that has some fear of him? Yes, sir. Has Leslie expressed that fear to you? Not to me. -How have you heard that? I've heard it through people who know her. Can you give me any names? Okay. You do need to talk to a Council I make it very clear that I don't
member that has a lot more information than I do about that, Jack Golden. Jack Golden? Yes, sir. I've got him scheduled. He may have knowledge that I don't have. He's a more recent City employee. Has he worked under -No. -- the present City Manager? No, he worked under the previous City Manager. Is there a discharge provision for City Manager?
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Yes, sir. What does the contract read? be for cause? What does the contract read? for cause. It has to be Does it have to
If it's not for cause then we
give him 6 months pay plus benefits. For 6 months? 6 months. Isn't that the cost of doing business? Yes, sir. So I mean you still need a majority, though? Yes, sir. Obviously you were willing to do that in your attempt to impeach him? I'm willing to do it today. Who else on the Council should I talk with in your opinion? Well, I don't know. to all of them. Who is the doctor? Rosenberg, Benjamin Rosenberg. Should I talk with him? Yes, sir. He's a dentist. Probably ought to talk
Is he still an active dentist? Yes, sir, pediatric dentist.
William Scearce
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Page 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. How old is Dr. Rosenberg? 74. BY MR. GENISIO: done my teeth. He's really good. He's the best - I mean he Old enough to have
works the hardest and quickest dentist I've ever seen. (By Mr. Loraine) Give me your assessment of Some are
the line-up of the Council.
Woolston supporters and some are Scearce supporters. Well, I guess you could say that. know that is the case. I don't
It's probably some
believe in the way that Woolston wants to operate and others believe in the way that Scearce wasn't to operate. Let's do that. breaks down. That division breaks down of course Scearce is one of those, Rosenberg is one of those. Rosenberg is on Scearce side. through that. Okay. Golden, Raney, and I don't know how Let's run Tell me how that division
the Mayor feels, but put the Mayor down on that side.
William Scearce
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Page 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. And that's? Colbert-Kean. Just put Colbert or just put Then you have
Mayor, whatever you want to.
on the other side there's Seibert, Woolston, and Glaze. Shaw. in. Shelton? Shaw, S-H-A-W, Shaw. Shaw is a little bit He was Mr. And there's one more. You've got
Nobody knows where he's going to come
compromised. He is a minister.
Rohr's counselor during his marriage problems. Did he vote on the attempt to impeach? Yes, sir. How did he vote? Not to. The vote was 5 to 4. There it is
right there. Actually the vote was not 5 to 4. I take that back. It was changed. 2 people didn't vote.
I understand.
It was 4 to 3 to 2. Who were the 2?
Mr. Glaze didn't vote and the Mayor didn't vote. Uh-huh. And the Mayor didn't vote. That's your stuff?
This is mine.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Well, is there anything else that is kind of hanging around in your mind that I ought to take a look at while I'm looking at stuff? Yes, sir. What is that? We have a program called the Commons. 40 million dollar project. not been made public. It's a
The location has
It is my belief that
Mr. Woolston and his partner will start buying property in the Commons area, trying to turn it into a profit, just like he did in the area of 20th and Connecticut. Who is Mr. Woolston's partner? Charlie Kuehn. of his company. Four State Homes is the name Let me tell you how I've got But this is
it spelled on my phone, okay? not right. know. We've got it there. Okay.
This is not the right spelling, I
K-U-H-E-N (sic.). You got it?
How did you get that?
Yeah, we've had him referenced before. Okay. Of course if I ask you where the location is on the record then it will be public. Please don't ask me.
William Scearce
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Page 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. So why don't we go off the record and I'll ask you that. Okay. BY MR. LORAINE: record there? BY COURT REPORTER: Yes, sir. Would you go off the
(Off record discussion 11:42 to 11:44 a.m., back on record) By Mr. Loraine) We're back on. Is it your
opinion that Mr. Woolston made profit through Four State Homes during the tornado event? Is that your position? During the tornado event? Well, you know, as a result of that, the redevelopment of that. We will now. He hasn't in the past.
So he's a real estate agent? He was a real estate agent with Pro 100 Real Estate Company until he quit and became partners with Mr. Kuehn at Four State Homes and they have set up their own real estate agency. I assume Mr. Kuehn will come in and talk with me? I have no idea whether Charlie will or not.
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Page 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. I assume he will. I'll tell you that he will
tell you that he wants Mike to be profitable because he saw what happened to Mike during the tornado when he didn't sell any property and other people sold lots of property and made lots of money and Woolston never made any and now he wants to help Mike. I have
visited with Mr. Kuehn and that is what he personally told me, and I believe that. Why did Mr. Woolston not make any money during? Because he was too busy being the Mayor. That's what Charlie told me. Well, Mayors probably shouldn't be making money when they're in office on real estate matters, should they? I agree with that. Do you believe the apparent conflict is a problem as well as whether there is conflict or not? Please ask that question again. Well, there's an appearance of conflict, that's one thing, and then there is an actual conflict. Okay.
William Scearce
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Page 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Are we talking about in your opinion with Mr. Woolston, are we talking about appearance of conflict or are we talking about actual conflict? With Mr. Woolston? Yes. I can't answer the question. I don't know. I can't Sometime
I know the appearance is there.
answer whether it's a fact or not. appearance supersedes reality.
Did you get complaints from people in the public as Councilman about Mr. Woolston's real estate dealings? I've had one complaint. And who has that been with? Cheryl Dandridge. Is she a former Mayor something? Yes, sir. Sharon? Cheryl, C-H-E-R-Y-L. What did she complain about? Her daughter and son-in-law own property on Delaware and Mr. Woolston was very inappropriate in their actions - she wants to talk to you anyhow. Yes, she would come in
William Scearce
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Page 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. and talk to you. if you want it. Yeah, if you have it. Just a second. 417-849-1242. His I've got her phone number
What is she actually complaining about? actions? I'll have to let her tell it.
She never told
me that she - I never know what her complaint is except that she said he was very inappropriate and took advantage of them. On the part of -Buying the land. They own a house on
Delaware about between 20th Street and 18th Street, I don't know the exact address, it was somewhere within the 18 or 1900 block of South Delaware. Why was Woolston buying that property? I don't know. Did he subsequently sell that to the City? You don't know? He would have sold it to the JRC so I don't know. know. You don't know if it's in a Land Bank or not? A. Do what? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if the property - I don't
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Your phone number is 417-623-1020? Yes, sir. Off the record.
(Off record discussion 11:53 to 11:54 a.m., back on record) (By Mr. Loraine) You had a meeting with the
City Manager and the Police Chief? Yes, sir. Who else was present at that? I think the City Attorney was, but I'm not sure. But I think he was.
What happened at that meeting? I asked the Police Chief why he felt it was necessary to share with non law enforcement people information about an FBI investigation which I was interviewed. Is that the sum and substance of it? That was my concern. it. What was the answer to that? The Chief explained that he - the Chief said that he had gotten permission from the FBI to share that information with Mr. Rohr, former Mayor Gary Shaw, former Mayor Mike Woolston, and current Mayor Melodee Colbert-Kean. I was not happy about
William Scearce
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Page 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. What would Shaw say about that? What would who? Shaw. I have no idea. You've not talked with him about it? I haven't talked to Shaw about it. I haven't I just
talked with Woolston about it either. know that the meeting took place.
The only
reason I know the meeting took place is that Mrs. Colbert-Kean asked me about it, told me about it, and I immediately asked if I could have a meeting with Mark and would he have the Police Chief there, because the Police Chief is his employee, not mine. Off the record.
(Off record discussion 11:57 to 11:58 a.m., back on record) (By Mr. Loraine) should talk about? I guess I could ask the question, this event that took place in 1991 when I was not on the Council, how does it affect my being on the Council now? Well, I think that is the question that your attorney posed and I guess the way - maybe if Anything else that we
William Scearce
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Page 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. you go through this scenario of interviews and stuff there's confusion as to what you admitted to. Right, I understand that. It kind of looks like you admit a little bit more as it goes along. it looks like. Okay. At least that's what I've been told. I would offer the following. When the I'm the That's kind of what
question was asked of me I said no.
one who initiated the call to the Joplin Globe. They kept printing that I didn't know Charles and I in his office
about gambling.
initiated the calls to the Globe to try to get that straightened out and tell them that I did know it was gambling. But the question
they asked me was very vague about how the question was worded. I thought the question
was worded in that did you know at the time you rented it they were going to use it for gambling and the answer is no. found out, yes, that's true. Later on I And that may be
why it appears that way and it is that way. I did admit. But if she had made the
William Scearce
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Page 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. follow-up question did you know later on or did you know he finally used it for gambling my answer would have been yes. was never asked. That question
But then, you know, then I
vote to fire Mark and it comes out with a big flash and says I know more than I'm telling, and sir, there is no more. Well, one of the things that I can do is try to make City employees tell me things. Yes. And if the City employees don't tell me things City employees are running the risk under Garrity of losing their job because of failure to, but I can't fire anybody. I understand that. But I do want to point
out to you that if they do talk to you they also are under the risk of losing their job. That's absolutely correct. It's two swords,
I mean two blades in that sword, and the only thing good is they can't get prosecuted for it, you know. I mean it comes out. But, you
know, noncooperation itself under Garrity is enough to eliminate someone and so, you know, we try to talk to those people and try to get everything we can out of them. If they don't
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. talk, they don't talk. I understand. Let me say, you know, we have - I think this ending report that I deliver will be in closed session, but I'm quite certain that the City Attorney has every intention to make that public. I have no problem with that. As soon as thereafter. So, you know, that
seems to be pretty much the modus operandi here. But I don't think I have anything I mean I would like some follow-up
further.
information. I will get you whatever you wanted to come. And I appreciate you coming in here. Thank you. I hope to clarify some of these issues to the extent that people will allow me to clarify these issues. problem. And I think that remains a
And I think, you know, it will come
out in my report anyway, but I did ask Carol Stark to talk to me if she has all of this information and she refused to do that. find that interesting. BY COURT REPORTER: Still on the I
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. sure. Isn't that with newspapers? Don't want record? BY MR. LORAINE: Yes. Just wanted to be
BY COURT REPORTER:
anything to be public except what they thought? (By Mr. Loraine) Well, I mean it would be
different if she wanted to - I mean she didn't even discuss keeping her sources secret or anything, she just wouldn't even meet with me. frankly. Can I elaborate a little bit? Sure. In June I took my three grandchildren, or three of my eight grandchildren to Gulf Port, Mississippi on a one week vacation. During I find that incredulous
that period of time there was an editorial in the Joplin Globe about the split on the Council. When I came back I called Mike who
was the Editor of the Globe, the Publisher. Mike? What's his last name? I can't -It's in the second
What's his last name? BY MR. GENISIO:
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. or third page. Anyhow and I asked if I could meet with Carol and with Mike and we met and we met for about an hour. I told Carol I didn't believe that I thought
there was a split on the Council.
what - I said there's a difference of philosophy on the Council. One of the
philosophies is that this town will be a staff driven town, that whatever the staff does the Council goes right along with them and even to the extent of making policy. The
other is that this will be a Council driven town, that people on the Council are elected to do the job, set the policy, staff simply administers it, and that's really one of the places where the split is. I mean there are
people who don't want - I mean an example would be when I get something from the staff I always call and verify. We went through a
procedure recently where we had, and I wasn't there for the final vote so I don't know exactly what happened, but we were having a different kind of plan. We were told that
certain cities had what's called a paper performance plan and we were given a list of
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cities and I called them. And when I called
them 25 percent of that list was not on paper performance. So I believe what I get. I
believe that staff that sends you things to control your vote. Springfield is one of them. Joplin tries to be more like
Springfield because they're kind of like a little sister, but Springfield is one of them. Springfield had talked about it and They didn't have it at that So during the conversation
we're talking. point in time.
the question came up of the performing arts center which Carol is one of the great advocates of and I told her I wasn't in favor of it. I think it's a poor location. I'm in
favor of a performing arts center, but I'm not in favor of putting it where they want to put it. It's just a poor location, bad to
get to, hard to get to, impossible to make profitable at that location. She also asked
me if - she said there is a rumor that there are people who want to fire Mark Rohr on the Council and I said that is absolutely correct and I happen to be one of them. And since
that meeting Carol Stark has never liked me
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. at all. And I believe that she thinks or
believes that if I'm not there it might not happen. (By Mr. Loraine) Firing Mark?
No, if I'm not at the Council that some of the things that she wants to do like the performing arts center might happen. going to vote for it. I'm not
I think it just puts
the City treasury and the future at risk. I made telephone calls. I made a telephone
call to the bond issue people on one of the projects that we've got coming up and I asked them if they were going to be tax or tax free bonds, how they were going to be sold, who was going to have to back the bond. I found
out the City is going to be asked to back the bonds and I'm not in favor of ever putting the City treasury at risk by backing bonds on a theater. I think theaters are becoming a My children who are in
thing of the past.
their thirties, they don't even go to the theater. They rent their movies off of
NetFlix, have it downloaded on their computer, and play it on their big screen TV. I believe investing 14 million dollars, the
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. City investing and backing bonds of a 14 million dollar theater puts our treasury at risk, because if it fails who has got to pay it off, the citizens of Joplin. But there
are people who have been sold on that idea. And I was criticized for calling the lady. As a matter of fact one of the Council members called me going rogue, and I told him I was going to continue to call and do my own research because I quite honestly didn't believe the research the staff presented me. What Council member called you rogue? Mr. Seibert. In the meeting. In the meeting
in which the idea of an investigator was brought forth. But he also, you know, said
in the meeting that we want to investigate this note that was stolen off of Mark's desk. And I said, wait a minute, you've got that wrong. It wasn't stolen off of Mark's desk. But that's Now
And I resent you saying it was.
the kind of stuff you've got going on. whether I'm right or whether I'm wrong I guess the public will decide one day.
But I
do get every day people saying don't give up. Not everybody in this town dislikes me.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED) Q. A. Q. A. I have nothing further. Okay. Thank you for your cooperation. Thank you.
William Scearce
In Re:
Page 70
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF MISSOURI ss. COUNTY OF JASPER I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 6th day November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned.
I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.
_________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

Scearce, William - (Investigation Testimony)

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Transcript of the Testimony of William Scearce

Date: November 6, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 13, 2013

Joplin Critical Investigation

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

Taken on Wednesday, November 6, 2013, from 10:24 a.m. to

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

In Re: William Scearce

Joplin Critical Investigation

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Joplin Critical Investigation

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Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

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other one is a complaint about Woolston and

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Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. rented the building. Okay. I did not own it.

You rented the building?

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Joplin Critical Investigation

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try to get that number for me.

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

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I didn't read an article in the paper about that. He called me.

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078

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start a brand new business and quite honestly

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Joplin Critical Investigation

the lot, it's a freestanding building.

that attorney - Olsten exists no more.

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Joplin Critical Investigation

"Don't do anything. And did you do that? Yes, sir.

Just stay away."

I will say Mr. Lovett used my Other than that we

restroom occasionally. had no contact.

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Joplin Critical Investigation

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Joplin Critical Investigation

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I know that when I look at this

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Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. it's a blown up copy. Right. Who presented that to you?

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