Transcript of the Testimony of Phil Stinnett

Date: November 20, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: December 1, 2013

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. Phone: 417-358-4078 Fax: 417-451-1114 Email:daholliday@hotmail.com Internet:

Phil Stinnett

In Re:

Joplin Critical Investigation

Page 1

IN RE:

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

TELEPHONE SWORN STATEMENT OF

PHIL STINNETT

Taken on Wednesday, November 20, 2013, from 1:50 p.m. to

2:19

p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.

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In Re: Phil Stinnett

Joplin Critical Investigation

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APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065

tellaw@loraineandassociates.com

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S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between counsel that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated and agreed by and between counsel for the respective parties that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement. It is further stipulated and agreed by and between counsel that any and all objections may be made at the time of trial, except as to the form of the questions.

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I N D E X

Page/Line

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE

5-13

E X H I B I T S

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

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Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. BY MR. LORAINE: oath? BY MR. STINNETT: Make a statement on the phone, Would you make a statement under

you mean, is that what you said? BY MR. LORAINE: BY MR. STINNETT: BY MR. LORAINE: Yes. Yes, yes. Okay, I'm going to have the

court reporter swear you in. BY MR. STINNETT: PHIL STINNETT Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: Q. Sir, would you please state your name for the court reporter? The name is Phil Stinnett. How do you spell that last name? S-T-I-N-N-E-T-T. Mr. Stinnett, you're a former Councilman and former Mayor, is that true, of the City of Joplin? Correct. And can you tell me what period of time you were Councilman? From 1998 to 2010. Okay.

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Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. And Mayor? 2004 to 2006. All right. You had some information

concerning Mr. Scearce and Mr. Woolston as well as the City Manager. Scearce first? Yes. What information do you have on Councilman Scearce? Well, my understanding on Councilman Scearce, that the allegations or the reasons for the investigation have to do with his ethical conduct, and the incident or area of inquiry that was brought up occurred some 20 or 30 years ago. He at that point in time was not Could we go to Mr.

on the City Council, had no relation to the City Council, and the FBI investigation did not charge him with any criminal activity. don't understand why the attempt was made to say he had an ethical violation as a Councilman now on something that occurred back then when he was not a Councilman. All right. I believe they said something I

about making a false statement concerning the events that took place 15 to 20 years ago.

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Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Do you think that has any relevance? No, if I understand, and all I know is what I've read in the paper, but from what I understand, he made a statement that he went back and recanted later that he didn't know that the gentleman who had rented the facility from him was conducting any gambling operations. That was my understanding that

he indicated he didn't know that at the beginning, recanted that later. He indicated

he personally was not involved in any of those activities. I do not believe that

causes an ethics violation for him at this point in time. That was maybe inartfully asked questions or something in the beginning by the Globe, I guess? Well, it is always extremely difficult to get a complete story under any news media when they're only printing individual excerpts, so I think that perhaps both parties, Mr. Scearce as well as the newspaper, were so on in error and not making sure the complete story got out to begin with. Okay. Did you have a position as a former

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Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Mayor or as a former Councilman on Mr. Woolston's activities in regards to real estate? Well, Mr. Woolston, I have no reason to believe and have no facts to indicate to me that he has ever taken any financial gain as a result of his position with the City. has publicly stated that he did receive a commission on a transaction, but that transaction occurred prior to the City signing an agreement with the master developer, implying that since that period of time he has not received any financial gain from any transaction having anything to do with the master developer. However, he has He

in the past and continues to recuse himself from voting on issues that come up involving property indicating that he has some interest in it or is in business with someone that has some interest in it. The perception then

would become to anybody, I would think, that he has an involvement with both the developer and maybe somebody he's doing business with or in business with and that developer has a tie to the master developer, they're doing

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Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. business together. So whether he receives

any financial remuneration or not over the counter as far as a real estate transaction he may in effect know or have knowledge of things that are coming about or are going to come about that would put him and his relationship with a developer in a position of having full knowledge that nobody else might have knowing the developer. And if his

relationship with a developer gains from any of that he in effect is gaining from that, too, even though he might not be receiving dollars over the counter for that particular transaction. I'm not accusing him of any of

that, I'm just saying that he put himself in a position where there is questioning about all of those activities and the perception and the fact that he recuses himself frequently from voting is leading the public thinking that there is something there. I

don't know if there is or not, and that casts a shadow over the whole Council I think. All right. Would the fact that he has to

abstain seems to be a little unfair to the City in that it's not having its full

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Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. representation of its Council members on any given issue given the number of abstainations he has to make? That's correct, absolutely correct. You

expect to elect somebody that's going to represent you in all issues. I think the

City Council has an issue with regards to not voting. We used to in the past, years ago,

several years ago, you would bring up your reason on the dais for not voting and you would talk with the City Attorney and explain to him and he would say I don't believe you have a conflict, I believe you have a conflict. They have evolved to the point now

where all they do is say I'm going to abstain. They don't really explain to the He may say I

people why they're abstaining.

have a financial interest, but he doesn't explain what that financial interest is. he's not the only Council person that's abstaining and not explaining. I have voiced And

my opinion to all of them, that if you're going to abstain you should make it very clear to the public as to why you are. But,

yes, I think that you would expect an elected

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Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. official to abstain once in awhile because there can always be a conflict, but not as frequently as is occurring. And when money

is involved it always brings out the bad side of everybody. All right. You had indicated you had some Could you

questions about the City Manager.

please tell me what issues involve the City Manager? My primary concern with Mr. Rohr, and Mr. Rohr was hired when I was the Mayor, so I was in the interview process with him and I've been with him from day one through my tenure there, he is a Type A personality, you know, is a striking appearance. He, I think, takes

advantage of the fact that with a voluntary type Council, not (inaudible) people, he takes advantage of doing more than running the City based on the policies given. likes to set policies. He

He likes to set the

scheme of things to happen rather than the Council setting policies and he implementing the policies. Because of that, I think he

has taken a way too active of a role with the master developer. I know that the Council

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Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 has told him to pull back from that relationship because it appeared to be two individuals with the same kind of personalities feeding off of each other. Mr.

Rohr accomplishing for the master developer what he needed from the Council, and the master developer accomplished for Mr. Rohr what he was wanting to see done in his vision of the rebuild of the community. That, to

me, is just exactly the opposite of what he as the City Manager should be doing, and that is being very skeptical of the master developer, watching to make sure that every T is crossed and every I is dotted. And I

think that relationship potentially is going to harm the City. I know that there are

individuals within the community who have expressed those feelings, but to no avail to Mr. Rohr. He's come out of the tornado with

a very well perceived public appearance, and rightfully so in many areas. But he pushes

the Council from a popularity standpoint. The Council has at times told him we want you to do this, but he doesn't want to do it, he doesn't do it until he's pushed to the very

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Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. end. I think he is heading the City in an

impossible direction of some financial real big problems. If everything he wants to

accomplish and everything the master developer wants to accomplish, I'm not saying it's not good, it could be wonderful, but it's got to be paid for down the road somewhere. It's got to be maintained down

the road somewhere, and the money is not always going to be here to cover it. The

other thing about Mr. Rohr is that Mr. Rohr has - he rules with intimidation. In my

opinion he decimated the Public Works Department, many, many City employees are just flat scared of him. And I mean that's

not really an offense, I understand that, but it's not in the best interest of our community either. Do you have personal knowledge from talking with people, City employees, that there is fear and intimidation of him? I have not had a one-on-one conversation with any City employee that has indicated that to me. I have had opportunities to listen to

multiple employees express that amongst

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Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. themselves to each other, but not one-on-one to me personally. But you have heard those expressions from City employees? Beg your pardon? You have heard those? Yes, yes, yes, yes. More than once. But

again not where I can say I've talked to one particular employee and he said that, but only when multiples have been and I've just been in a position where I was able to listen or observe what they were saying. Do you have an opinion on his use of professionals, whether they're lawyers or engineers, that being Mr. Rohr? Well, lawyers, I don't think Mr. Rohr has too much of a problem with the City Attorney to do that. Mr. Rohr has the feeling that you

do not need a City Engineer to run a Public Works department, you need engineers within the department, but you don't need an engineer to run it because the engineer is not the guy that's designing the plan for the building, he's not the guy that's figuring out the steel, the architects are going to do

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Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. that, blah, blah, blah. But you cannot be

the head of a department that deals in that terminology and that understanding and understand what any of your subordinates are talking about or any of your consultants that are coming in or talking about so it makes no sense to me why he would want to eliminate an engineer from being the head of your Public Works Department. That's not in the scheme

of what he wants to happen in that department and that's why he's tried to change it. Do you think his aggressive nature with employees is a problem for the City? Well, yeah, I do, but I have to say that he will not be the first person running a community that runs it in that manner and some probably very successful. And you

cannot say that he hasn't had success in his tenure here, but I do not believe that public employees, City employees are going to be a unified organization doing what they should be doing and representing their community because City employees are different than private employees and I don't believe that can be done in a productive manner under that

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Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. type of leadership. All right. Do you have an opinion on the

special taxes that exist in the City on your Sunset provision and how that might affect future finances? Okay. I was involved in some of those and

getting the individual when they were started and voted on the first time around, and we have a first in storm water, and we have a public safety, and we have a capital improvement center in particular Sunset taxes of ten years in most cases. Those were all

initially initiated for particular type projects because there just wasn't enough money in the budget to do that. There was

never a promise at the beginning that we'll never ask to renew them or anything, that was probably the scheme all along that we'll go back and ask to renew. But a lot of those

taxes now have become used for not only projects but daily operations to hire additional employees, to do this and that. And that's probably okay if you understand that at some point in time that money may go away, and if it does what will you be able to

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Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do about maintaining your services? That

obviously is the fear mechanism that's used to try to get those taxes renewed. If you

all don't do this as a community, renew this, then we're going to have to cut back on this, we're going to have to cut back on that. The

point is it has allowed him to do a lot more that he's been able to do outside of the constraints of a normal budget. My feeling

is that if I as an individual have an extra influx of money and I'm going to have $60,000.00 to spend this year instead of the $40,000.00 I would normally have then I don't spend $50,000.00 thinking I'm going to have $50,000.00 to spend this year and $50,000.00 to spend next year, because eventually it may drop back to $40,000.00 and then I've got a real problem. And I'm afraid that the first

time the community doesn't pass one of these renewals you're going to see, okay, we're going to have to cut back on City services, which would not necessarily be the case if you used the money only for what the initial intent was for and that works to do specific projects it wouldn't necessarily affect the

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Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. general operational budget of that department on a year-to-year basis. And is that the manner of city government that Mr. Rohr runs in that he does rely on these special taxes to run a normal budget? It has allowed him to not only do projects, but it has allowed him to, you know, by saying well, wait a minute, City Council has the vote here, the final vote on everything, and they do. And I've told most of them I

don't think you're reigning this in like you want to reign it in, but once you start it training downhill it's hard to stop it, it's hard to slow it down. He has used this to do

the projects that he promised to do, I will not deny it, but he's used it to increase manpower within the departments and those are ongoing costs. Those are costs that don't

stop after the project is over, they continue, so yes, I think he has abused that. They've let him do it, so maybe they're worse off than he is. Do you have any further opinions that I should include in my report? No, except for the master developer. I think

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Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. the relationship between Mr. Rohr and the master developer needs to be pulled farther and farther apart. I serve on the 353 Board,

the Joplin Redevelopment Authority Board, got appointed to that board by the Council a few months back, and there's a lot of potential problem activities there. I mean there's an

awful lot being based on this happening, that happening, that happening, that happening, and I think Mr. Rohr should be at a distance away from all that to represent the Council as a safeguard as best he can under the circumstances. do that now. the beginning. Do you believe that he will do that based on what you know the situation to be? As long as the projects moved forward that he wants to see moved forward I don't think there will be an issue, but I think that he will become a cheerleader for projects if there's any indication they're going to slow down the projects that he likes, and like anybody that will talk to you will talk about the 1st and Main downtown project that he was I believe he's been told to I don't believe he did that in

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Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. trying to champion for years that many people think is not necessarily the project that it's going to be productive, financially feasible, and I think he has shown in the past and will continue to show that he will do anything he can possibly within all those limits of trying to make that project fly. And that to me becomes a personal thing and not necessarily what's best for the community. In other words Wallace-Bajjali as a consultant should be restrained and watched by the City Manager as opposed to the City Manager being a cheerleader for them as you've indicated? That's my opinion. Okay. Do you have anything further that we

should include in the report? No, sir, not that I'm aware of. All right. Sir, one other question I have,

is this 353 corporation, is that running under budget now or is it in budget, or is it out of budget? There's no way to answer that question because the budget is a fluid floating thing.

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Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Currently we have no money. negative balance right now. We're at a But that's

primarily because the organization has not received the TIF funds that will be coming to it, nor has it received the tax credits that are applied by the state for it, so we're in a negative situation right now and probably will be for awhile. We actually got a loan

over at a bank that's we just paid a bunch of interest on and stuff. Eventually, and we

rely heavily on the City Finance Director and the City Attorney to advise us to where we're heading, eventually we'll get back into a positive situation. That commission was

never designed to have a bunch of money in hand, but things have been kind of fluid and some of the money that was kind of implied this may happen down the road to spend on some projects, that money is kind of disappearing, slips and slides here and there. It is extremely hard to keep up with

everything that's going on in that group, but I believe it's a good group. board itself is a good group. I believe the Most of us

have come in after the - most of us were

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Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. appointed by the Council just recently and to build the board up to a larger number of people and to bring a little bit more expertise to the board, because the board existed for years and didn't do anything. When the City decided to use that board as a vehicle for land purchases and to work with the master developer the people on that board were not necessarily who you might appoint to the board if you were starting it brand new. So the Council has beefed the board up and everything, but a lot of the stuff that happened, the contracts had been made, the procedures of how they do things had been established prior to most of us getting there, so we're trying to weed our way through. And actually we've put off a few

things until we can get it worked out a little different. Were those procedures set in place by City Manager Rohr? They were probably developed by - I don't know want to - they were probably developed in conjunction with Mr. Rohr and Mr. Wallace and approved by the Council. I - under the

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Page 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. way the City normally operates here, again, because of the volunteer Council, the Council generally - this stuff is brought to them, here's what we propose, this is what the City is recommending. So I'm sure those were all And

brought to the Council for approval. they approved it. they did.

I mean there's nothing -

You can't say they didn't, they You

did, but it's almost like Obamacare.

know, they said, well, we can't read all these pages, we can't read all that stuff in that master development plan over a period of a few days, and they actually had only a few days to review it before they voted on it. don't think Mr. Rohr is totally responsible for that, though. City Attorney Brian Head has complained that he was not involved in the planning process with the Wallace-Bajjali project under oath. Do you have any knowledge about that? I've heard that statement made. I do know I

that Mr. Head at a Council meeting advised the Council of his opinion, I wouldn't agree - I wouldn't vote on this tonight, I wouldn't agree to this tonight, and they went ahead

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Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. and did it. He was trying to do his due diligence. I don't have any actual facts,

but I have heard him say that he was not involved or didn't have the opportunity to do what he wanted he do or would like to have done as the City Attorney before it happened. But, again, this is somewhat typical with total volunteer elected Council for the staff to bring something and say, here, - you know, it's done. We've done our due diligence, you

know, put your rubber stamp on it and let's get on with life. And if you've got a

Council that is very supportive of the City Manager then that's probably going to happen. And if you've got a split Council like we have, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But, nevertheless, if the City Manager is aggressive, as you indicate Rohr is, it's going to be his policies rather than the Council's policies? That's part of the problem. If you

understand what the City charter says it says the Council sets policy and the City Manager implements policy. If you were to follow the

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Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Council for a year's period of time or the Council meetings you would see an awful lot of policies changed done by the Manager, but he understands what he's doing, he's smart enough to come to the Council and get approval, but it's his policy. All right. Anything further, sir?

I don't think so, no. I really appreciate you coming forward with this. And just to set the record straight,

you've been pretty much involved in City affairs and City government, and you've had knowledge and history of this in Joplin for a number of years, is that correct? That's true. I was born and raised here. I

served 10 years beginning in 1988 on the Building Board of Appeals, kind of got my feet wet, and then went on the Council. I

have probably spent the last 25 years trying to be involved in some way, shape, or form. I continue to serve. of the City now. What are those boards, sir? Chairman of the Joplin First Response Tornado Fund, which is the fund that dispenses the I serve on three boards

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Page 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. monies that were donated to the City from all over the place as a result of the tornado, and these were funds that were specifically donated to the City of Joplin. other funds out there. board. There are

We have a five member

I was chairman of that board and The Council

we're totally hands free.

appointed us and no authority over us, don't question anything, we do it ourselves. I've

been on the Sports Authority Board because I was active in getting the Sports Authority started in Joplin when I was on the Council and I've been appointed to that board after I got off the Council. 353 Board. One more question on the Sports Authority. Are you aware that the minor league team that's being discussed, it's actually an independent league team that's being discussed was developed in house by the Engineering Department? No, all I basically know is it's a Texas team, and they lost the franchise, and trying to move, and that's all I really understand. I guess my point is, if that was developed by Then on the JRC, the

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Page 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED) A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Wallace-Bajjali they would receive a fee on that? Yeah, it's never been presented at least in anyplace I've been involved, nothing has ever been presented that tells me they have. I'm

not saying they haven't, but I've not seen anything presented to me that says they have. If the City Manager disciplined one of the professional engineers for developing that contact outside the Wallace-Bajjali contract you would question that and you would find that in support of your position, wouldn't you? Yes, I would. That would be not good? That would be not good, yes, you're absolutely right. All right. Thank you very much. I

appreciate your help and I look forward to rendering some sort of report to you all. All right. Thank you. I appreciate it, sir.

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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI ss. COUNTY OF JASPER I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 20th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned. I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

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