Woolston, Mike - Vol (Investigation)

Transcript of the Testimony of Mike Woolston
Date: November 6, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation
Printed On: November 13, 2013
Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. Phone: 417-358-4078 Fax: 417-451-1114 Email:daholliday@hotmail.com Internet:
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Joplin Critical Investigation
Page 1
IN RE:
JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION
SWORN STATEMENT OF
MIKE WOOLSTON
Taken on Wednesday, November 6, 2013, from 2:28 p.m. to 3:25 p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of Missouri, before SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650, a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.
Holliday Reporting Service, Inc. 417-358-4078
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 2
APPEARANCES
MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE Loraine & Associates, LLC 4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300 Osage Beach, MO 65065
tellaw@loraineandassociates.com
Mike Woolston
In Re:
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S T I P U L A T I O N
IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED that this Sworn Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and afterwards reduced into typewriting. It is further stipulated that the signature of the witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of said witness shall be of the same force and effect as though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4
E X H I B I T S
Exhibit #A.
5-8
Advice of Rights
Note:
Exhibits in separate binder
(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. MIKE WOOLSTON Having been first duly sworn and examined, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE: Q. Mr. Woolston, have you had a chance to look at this Advice of Rights form? Yes. And I've indicated it's marked Exhibit #A. Would you sign this and print your name above your signature and put the date on there? (Witness complies) Yes, it is, sir. Is today the 6th? Okay, Mr. Woolston, would
it be true that you have, in fact, reviewed and executed the Advice of Rights form that I provided to you? Yes, sir. I'm going to witness that signature and put the date on that. Mr. Woolston, you provided
I think through the City Attorney some information prior to coming in here today. Is that true? Yes. I'm going to hand you a pile of those what I believe to be what he gave me. think there is #6, also. Let's see, I
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. BY COURT REPORTER: listings. (By Mr. Loraine) I'm going to hand you #6 was property
what's been previously marked as Exhibits #5 sequentially through Exhibit 11, and let you just examine those for a moment. All right. Are you familiar with those exhibits? I am. Is this the total exhibits that you've given me? I believe it is so, yes.
(Off record while Mr. Loraine has a phone call) Q. (By Mr. Loraine) I'm sorry, sir. Now you
submitted this information I know with the thought that it would assist us in getting to a conclusion on one of the issues which is the embarrassing issue that somehow you might have done something wrong. I mean I
certainly sympathize with you, no professional wants to be put in that kind of situation for the high paying job of the City Councilman, but in any case I have examined them and I saw there was a memorandum in here from a lawyer, I thought, from Wood.
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Correct. And who is Mr. Wood? He is the managing broker of the real estate company with which I was affiliated at the time of the closing of those transactions. That was Pro 100? Correct. And basically what he's telling me is that you did not benefit from any fee that Pro 100 received? With one exception. And you've got that exception noted? Correct. A certain address. It's the first one on the list for the property listings. 1825 Connecticut. Now, what was the
1825 Connecticut, yeah.
total fee to the broker Pro 100 for these closings? Approximately $200.00 apiece. Most of them A
were minimal transactions for vacant lots. couple of them were for houses in the $190,000.00, $150,000.00 range. I don't have the total dollars off the top of my head. What would that percentage be, about 7
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. percent? Well, some of those would vary. The ones
that I dealt directly with the property owners typically it would have been 3 percent of the sales price. The ones that were
listed by other companies it would have been 6 or 7 percent commission and Pro 100 would have gotten 45 or 50 percent of that commission and Pro 100 shared that 45 or 50 percent which was 20 percent. Now that's not a lot of money, but it's certainly money? Correct. As I understand it you were purchasing homes from people in the disaster area? I was facilitating the purchase of homes by two different buyers in that area. purchase of homes. I say
Most of them were vacant
lots, there were two homes, some more or less commercial locations, that kind of thing. At the time you were doing this facilitation you were also a member of the Council? Correct. In fact, were you Mayor at that time? I don't believe I was - let me look here. I
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. was no longer Mayor at the time of any of the transactions. My term as Mayor had expired
in early April of 2012. This is immediately after your term. were still on the board? Correct. The Mayor thing is selected from the board members pretty much on a revolving basis, I guess? There's an election of Mayor by the Council every 2 years. Every Council election a new But you
Mayor is selected. So you, in fact, or any Council member could wind up being the Mayor again? Correct. As long as you're on the Council? Correct. Did you discuss with any attorney the possibility of conflict of interest -Yes. -- when you were purchasing these homes? I had a discussion with the City Attorney. My principal that I was dealing with, Charles Kuehn of Four State Homes, I discussed it with the City Attorney a couple of times,
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Charlie Kuehn and I had a meeting where we went to the City Attorney's office and had a discussion with him about it I'm going to say in probably the fall of last year. 2013? August, September time frame, maybe. remember. Of '12? Of last year, yes. Okay. During those discussions can you give I don't
me any consensus that was arrived at? Essentially we just talked about what we were going to be doing and I just wanted to protect myself in terms of the conflict of interest. I got his input, his perspective
on it, and I don't remember his exact words, but something to the effect that we just would have to be careful in how we went forward to make sure that I didn't do something to cross the line ethically. As a professional I mean you have a license? Correct. And you realize that ethics is part of the profession? Sure.
Mike Woolston
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Page 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. And that would be true of not only your profession, but mine? Right. And so we all have when we're in one of those professions we have some kind of ethical responsibilities and that's what we're talking about here? Correct. Now there's another thing, you know, where you're actually taking money and making money off of these things and that's of course maybe worse, you understand, for the law? You I guess would agree on that? Correct. But the appearance of impropriety can be an issue, and you're aware of that and have been aware of that? Yes. So would it be safe to say that you consciously decided to go forward and acquire these properties nonetheless? I made sure that the manner in which I worked with the prospective buyer was one that did not violate any ethics as per the City Attorney.
Mike Woolston
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Page 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Q. A. What standard did he give you? Essentially as I recall if I would have collected money on the commissions that that would be a problem. Well, that deals with the first half of what we were talking about. It may not deal with
the appearance of improprieties. Right. I'm probably dealing with both here today. Do you follow that? Sure. There is a little bit of nuance there, but I wanted to make sure. And I guess you
attempted to deal with both of them or you wouldn't have gone to an attorney? I attempted to keep myself out of hot water. I don't think for anybody that does their homework I don't think there's any appearance of impropriety because the first property is one where initially the people had planned to build a commercial strip center and there was no discussion of a library/theater complex. The remaining properties to my knowledge there is an opportunity for the buyers to work in sort of a public/private partnership,
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. but to my knowledge that agreement has not been formalized in writing at this point. I've tried to avoid the appearance of impropriety even though to my knowledge there's not a written agreement that that will involve public money at this point. My So
understanding still right now it would be a private sector project. This property has been acquired for what purpose? These properties, most of those will be -Let's deal with the numbers here, Number 1 through - let's see, Number 1 would be excluded from our discussion now. Okay. Any of the properties that were
purchased by the Jennings-Brown family are properties that will be involved in the library/theater project. Any properties
purchased by Four State Homes whose owner is Charles Kuehn, those will be utilized for retail, loft over retail project that there is the possibility it may be in partnership with the Wallace-Bajjali firm, but again I don't know of any formalized written agreement that that will take place. I
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. avoided taking a commission because I thought there might be that potential there. So essentially you were working for nothing? On most of those, yes. So what did you accomplish by doing that? I felt like it was an opportunity to help rebuild or make some effort towards the rebuilding of a particular part of the City. I'm very concerned about how we go about our rebuild. I think we have a once in a
lifetime opportunity to shape to a large degree what our community looks like in the next 10 or 15 or 50 years and I wanted to have a part in that. Any of these sections of property that you were involved in, do they deal with your particular ward or whatever the proper term is? I'm a general Council member so I represent the entire City. So you get elected at large? Correct. Now there are some Councilmen that are elected from a certain ward? Correct.
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. Okay. were -I have always been an at large. It's a tougher election, isn't it? Always competition. Yeah, I would think. So out of the spirit, But at this time and in the past you
if you will, of civil pride you took part in this without commission? Correct. Now do you think if your company that you work with got a commission was there any special favors or gifts or benefits to you in that regard? No, nothing I got, nothing more than any other agent there. No profit sharing of any sort? Correct. You were not part of the ownership? Correct. Now as a result you're still with Four State Homes now? I was never affiliated with Four State Homes. Four State Homes is the company that purchased a number of those properties. And that's Mr. Kuehn?
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Correct. Pro 100. I was affiliated at the time with I'm not affiliated with New
Horizons Realty. And New Horizons, in fact, does involve Mr. Kuehn? It does not. Does not. Who does New Horizons involve?
Myself and a gentleman named Kevin Steele. Does Steele have anything to do with any of these? No. Who is Kevin Steele? He's my partner. He's a commercial land
developer, recently got licensed as a real estate agent. Always worked in Joplin? No, he has worked extensively in the Carolinas and Georgia and to some extent here. Does he follow the tornados? No, he was here prior to the tornado. He
actually grew up here, went to high school there. You knew him from that? Didn't know him from then. I've only
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. recently gotten acquainted with him. Okay. home? Correct. Is there any benefit in any way from any of these transactions other than 1, and we'll talk about 1 in a minute, I'm making reference to Exhibit #5 here, Number 1 we'll exclude, that's the 1825 Connecticut property, but as in regards to 2 through 19 is there any benefit to you or to your companies that you're now affiliated with that results from any of your work here? No. Let's chat a little bit about, if I can, about number 1 on there, this 1825 Connecticut. #6 here. It's number 1 over here, yes. Now that was as I understand you actually got paid a commission? Correct. And how much commission did you make? Oh, it was probably $3,000.00 or $4,000.00. I don't recall. Yes, that's marked on Exhibit So he's a transplant, but come back
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Was this a building? It was a house, an existing house. Existing house? Correct. And your percent of the commission -It previously was an existing house. After
the tornado it was basically just a vacant lot. Oh, okay. It was taken out?
Correct, this whole area was in the tornado path. Now refresh me, why do you think that that commission to you is not relevant to our inquiry? When Jennings purchased that property their intent - they own property here that's in green and their intent after the tornado was to build a strip center in this area. had an office here. They
Their family owned the
McDonald's locally, restaurants locally, and they had intended initially to build some sort of a commercial strip center as an investment property. part of 2012. That was in the early
In September or October the
library project, which we had gotten an EDA
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. grant to help construct, EDA said they wanted that building to be rebuilt in the tornado zone, so it wasn't until September or October there was any discussion of building a library/theater project in this area. So
when we closed on that property the Jennings intent was to build an investment property for themselves. And do you think that in some way makes this an exception that you can take a fee? Sure. And the City didn't even have their
agreement with the Wallace-Bajjali firm signed until I think it was early July of that year. What you're telling me is there was no inside information? Yes. That in any way benefited you from that? Correct. Can you see, and I'm not meaning this as a lecture, but can you see that your involvement in this event has caused you a lot of grief? I don't think it's caused me a lot of grief. I can see an uninformed person who didn't pay
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. a great deal of attention to details might think there was something underhanded going on, but if they would look into it I think I've taken very careful steps to ensure that I didn't cross the line ethically and I've taken what steps I could to ensure that it wasn't perceived as something unethically. And you're making reference to maybe Mr. Scearce? Actually it's Dr. Rosenberg that said that he had had comments from people that I was using inside information to make money and acquire these properties on the cheap, sell them at an exorbitant profit, and that the Wallace-Bajjali firm was purchasing them. Well, in fact, the Wallace-Bajjali firm hasn't purchased any of those properties and relative to his reference to the exorbitant prices I think this is a lot of what's driving those prices up along that area, that's a property right on the corner immediately south, it would be this corner right here that was purchased by Casey's convenience store people and they paid $800,000.00 for that corner.
Mike Woolston
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Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. For the lot? For the lot, which was about $14.00 a foot. And most of the properties we have been acquiring here we've been trying to limit our cost to the $4.00 to $5.00 or $6.00 per square foot range. So it's not the
properties that I've been involved with that have driven the price, it's this parcel that's driven the price. And you're making reference to what I have marked as Exhibit #11? Yes. And I would point out, by the way, I
had nothing to do with the transaction in Exhibit #11. Yes, I'm going to give you Exhibit #6 and I want that big dark green marker we've got. I
would like you to put an "X" on where Exhibit #11 would be if you understood what I said. Sure. Put an "X" in there and put your initials there. (Witness complies) Okay. Yes. Put a green "X" on Exhibit #11 with your Have you done that, sir?
Mike Woolston
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Page 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. initials? "MRW". "MRW", okay. So the record reflects what What else in
we're trying to get at here.
these exhibits are there that you would - for example, I'm going to give you Exhibit #8 and I'm going to give you Exhibit #9. Exhibit #8 is a listing of Council votes from September 2012 through September 2013. This
list was requested by Dr. Rosenberg of the City Clerk, and I have gone through it. There was one indication that I've used inside information to make money off these transactions and I've highlighted in this list those properties or those votes where I have abstained because anything relative to Four State Homes or Charlie Kuehn when that comes to a Council vote whether it be a zoning issue, a special use permit, whatever the case, I have abstained on those because of my financial involvement with him. And I've merely marked those because those were available to me already, I merely marked those where I have abstained so that you could find where I've abstained. You might
Mike Woolston
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Page 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. want to go back to actually the tornado to get additional Council votes to find where I have abstained because most of these I looked up and have provided copies of in Exhibit #9 and most of them don't really have anything to do with Mr. Kuehn. Certainly not to the So
extent of the ones that I have abstained.
there are more abstentions that I've got out there, they just don't happen to be on this list. But on the ones on this list of
Exhibit #8 I have provided a copy of the agenda, on Exhibit #9 and the caption for each of those Council bills so that you would know what the topic. To show what the topic was and that you abstained? Correct. If I were to go back through the tornado notes, and I mean everything we do costs money, exorbitant money, but if we did pull all of those and we went through and I brought you back in here and we talked about those you're telling me that any time you were involved in some with Four Seasons or with --
Mike Woolston
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Page 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Four State Homes. -- Four State Homes or with Charlie you would have abstained? That is correct. For instance, I'm looking
at Exhibit #9, the last page on Council bill 2013-297, it's a vacation of a utility easement on a property where he's doing a project. On looking at page 3 of Exhibit #9,
Council bill 2013-294, the Salvation Army is going to build a new building. I've been
keeping in contact with them to try to get an opportunity bid that project. So I don't
have a financial involvement in that point yet. I potentially might, but we're just
trying to get an opportunity to bid the project knowing that we may not get it due to our bid. So I've abstained on that just
because the potential is there, even though there's no financial interest in it at this time. So those are some examples of why I
have abstained simply because I didn't want the appearance of impropriety to be out there so anything that Four State Homes or Charlie Kuehn has been involved in, whether personally or his company, I have abstained.
Mike Woolston
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Page 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. Q. A. How long does that go back? I first got involved and began to work with him probably within a couple of months after the tornado. 2011. I'd say probably August of
And that's why if you go back and
check the record the Council bills listed in Exhibit #8 only go back to September 2012. If you go back to August of 2011 you probably would find more abstentions. You're saying I would find more? Yes. And this is because of the relationship you've got with Charlie? Exactly. Now Charlie has expressed some concern for you not making money. What's that all about? He knows
He's just a stand-up guy, I guess.
that nobody can survive without making an income. And I'm fortunate enough that I've
had income from other real estate transactions and so although it's difficult to give those up still I can survive and make a living based on my other properties, or transactions I've been involved in. What was it that he's trying to do to help
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. you make money? He's not necessarily trying to help me make money, but we continue to work together on various projects. He has a number of
investors with whom he works, several of them are building commercial buildings. We are
working together to find tenants for those. Another instance is the Salvation Army building. I'm trying to once they're ready
to put their building out for bid I'm trying to have a contact with them such that we would have an opportunity to take their request for bid, put a bid together, and submit it to them so that he might get the construction work from that project. So we
continue to work together because I think we have a mutual interest in rebuilding the city in a positive way and influencing what our city looks like going forward after the tornado. Of course Charlie also wants to make money? Sure. And I assume you do? Correct. So I mean the road that you're following in
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. A. Q. A. Q. this regard is going to be all these lined with mine fields? Sure. And that's something that you're willing to put up with and be an alderman? For now, yes. Okay. How would the City identify projects
that Charlie is thinking about that the City doesn't know about yet that you do? The City to my knowledge wouldn't have any way to identify something that he's just thinking about. And working on. At some point through the permitting process he has to initiate some kind of action to get City's approval for building permits or zoning or alley vacations or whatever the case, and the City would know at that point in addition to my disclosing that I had some involvement with him on a particular project. And I assume that on those kinds of projects you're going to be acutely aware that you need to abstain and not talk to zoning people? Certainly.
Mike Woolston
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Page 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. And of course as I understand your city, if you as an alderman talk with somebody in the Zoning Department trying to favorably impress them to make a decision you could be impeached for that? I probably could. I talk with them
frequently on Charlie's projects and other projects, but typically what I request is so that I understand what they need or understand the process. for what he's doing. It's never to lobby
And frequently when I
go down there I'll let them know that I'm there as a private member of the community as opposed to a Council member requesting information. But it also identifies to those zoning people or those people in the City that this is a project that you might be involved with and maybe they're going to treat it more gingerly? Obviously they know that I'm a Council member and I worry about that on occasion because I'm sure that we as Council members get treated a little differently than any other private citizen when we go in making
Mike Woolston
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Page 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Q. A. Q. A. Q. essentially the same request. I'll guarantee you do. Sure. I mean they work for you. Sure. So that could cause some degree or consternation on the part of an adverse decision by those City employees. understand that? Yes. And you still choose to do that? Yes. You know, it's a matter of you making money, I suppose. Sure. And not giving up political power in the City, is that right? Right. Now I know that at some point in the past I've seen something somewhere it seems to me that Attorney Head had written some kind of opinion. If you'll look at Exhibit #10 at the Mayor's request I think probably by another Council member. Do you
Mike Woolston
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Page 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Who was that? Don't know. I was not told. But at the
Mayor's request the City Attorney conducted an investigation and he issued a written opinion dated April 26th of this year basically stating that he had looked into my involvement with Mr. Kuehn and quoting the City Attorney, "It does not appear that any violation occurred." At the end of the memo
he reiterates, again quoting, "It is our opinion that Council member Woolston has not violated any provisions of statute or code," so my opinion this has been investigated before, but per Dr. Rosenberg he's been getting questions from the public and I don't have any problem answering the public's questions. I think those questions need to
be answered because I think the public needs to have confidence that there's nothing underhanded going on at the Council level. The only way to do that is to answer their questions so I have welcomed this investigation even given its cause. And some
people in the public have admonished Council members generally for spending the money that
Mike Woolston
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Page 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. it's going to cost, but again I think our entire recovery is at stake. If the public
believes that the Council is doing something under the table or something that's improper and that's why I called for the investigation of Mr. Scearce and the FBI file because the public has those questions, and until they get answers those questions are going to continue to be out there. And so we've got
to get a look at that FBI file in order to answer the questions to reassure them that either something was done wrong or something wasn't. And I'm not saying he's done I don't have any evidence I'm just saying the
anything wrong.
one way or the other.
public's questions have to be answered and the only way to get those answers is to get that file. But if the public has questions
about me and my involvement I'll be happy to visit with any of them or answer any questions because I've done nothing wrong. Of course that same position is taken and has been taken by Mr. Scearce? True. So he may have not done anything wrong
Mike Woolston
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Page 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. either? And he may not have. I mean this perception issue that's going on here seems to be the real enemy. Sure. And you know dealing with real estate sometimes perception on a piece of property can devaluate its cost? Sure. You're aware of that kind of thing? Sure. Somebody get killed or something on a property and blames bloody murder, nobody wants to buy it because there's ghosts in there or blood on the floor. True. You know, perception is an issue. I guess
that's what we're dealing with here. Sure. Maybe we'll do more and maybe we'll find it. But I'm going to ask you a question and I'm not trying to trick you, I'm going to inform you, and maybe you don't know, but is Charlie Kuehn registered as a lobbyist? I don't know that he is or isn't.
Mike Woolston
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Page 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. Q. There is a state statute on that. know that? No. You know, Charlie is in a position that it looks to me, and I'll be talking to Charlie if he'll come in, and I don't want you to talk about what we talk in here, we're trying to keep this, you know, as secret as possible, but Charlie is in a position that he influences public voters. You know, Did you
you're a public voter and you vote and you're a public official. Now you're trying to make
it - I mean it sounds to me like you're trying to not vote on anything that Charlie deals with. Right. But the perception of that issue if Charlie is not registered as a local lobbyist that could be an issue here. I wouldn't disagree with you because I don't know, but I don't think that's probably any different than any other real estate agent that represents a client that goes to advocate for a particular zoning issue or neighbors that come forward to advocate for
Mike Woolston
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Page 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. somebody that's trying to get labor on a privacy fence or something like that, I don't think probably there's any desire to do something inappropriate. I think that people
that should be registered as a lobbyist and aren't it's simply because they don't know they should. Okay. I just mention that to you because I'm
not trying to blindside anybody. Sure. I just think there's probably at a
City Council level there's probably a lot of people come forward and advocate a position not knowing that they should be registered or not. I think you're right. But if they regularly
do that I think there is a state statute on that. So we might want to look at that.
And I think that would be something that if there is and it would be applicable I would think that our local board of realtors would want to know that so they can get that information out to the realtor community to make sure those people get registered or being cautious about how they advocate -Good point.
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. -- for their clients. Good point. It's something that, you know,
I've done this considerable times and I've seen things like that. I think it inadvertently happened, but there is something to deal with there. On the state
level you can lobby all you want, but you do have to be a lobbyist. Right. I mean you can say anything you want to those guys up there, but I think they're just asking for registration on those things so that people can be identified as to who is influencing policy. Sure. In your opinion you've not made any profit in any way on anything that has arisen before you as a Councilman? With one exception in that area. That's the number 1 we've been talking about in the exhibit? Correct. There are other projects where I
have been involved with Mr. Kuehn and other investors, I have abstained on those because I have collected commission on some of those,
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. A. Q. so they are not in areas where there is going to be any public money involvement, but again that's just part of the intricacies of my involvement with Mr. Kuehn is that we're not limited to just this one project. Let me ask you this question. theater issue going on now? Uh-huh. And has the property been identified? Yes, that's the 18th and Connecticut property. Do other people know that? It's been in the newspaper a number of times. It's all this property right here in the orange and green. And that's where a theater is going to be built? The City has currently a library downtown and the library people would like to move, enlarge their space. They have identified that area of town where they should be given their people they market to. As I said in There's a
September or October of 2012 I guess it was the EDA said that for the money that they had given the City they wanted the library built
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. in the tornado zone so that then prompted a discussion of this particular area here. at that point there began to be some discussion of a library project there as a way for the library. To have some sustaining So
revenue someone came up with the idea of putting in a movie theater up above and let the lease payments from the movie theater company pay the expenses of the library, so that's where this library/major theater concept came from. But again my
understanding or recollection is that the discussion of that particular location did not occur until September or October of 2012. September '12. That was after the tornado?
About 15 months after. Is there a ravine that runs through there or a ditch or something? No, there's a storm water drainage ditch a couple of blocks to the west. Anything else that you should tell me before I go on to different topics about this particular thing or anything in general? Can't think of anything. I think all the
documents that I provided should be pretty
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. linear in terms of pointing you as to what I've done and been involved in. Are you aware of any of the facts surrounding the famous note? Just as I recall from newspaper accounts the note supposedly has the name of the local newspaper editor on it, an individual's name, and a phone number, and I don't know if the phone number - I assume was for the Joplin Globe - that supposed is in the handwriting of the City Manager. don't know. How did you get that information? Newspaper. What is your perception on the City Manager's position that it was stolen off his desk? I don't know how it was acquired and I really don't understand the relevance of the note. If it's in his handwriting his secretary could have told them that the editor called, here was her phone number, and this is who she wanted to talk about. I don't know that I Beyond that I really
it really tells you anything in my mind.
think the greater concern or question in the public's mind is how did it go from the City
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. A. Manager's desk or office to Mr. Scearce's position. I think that's the good question.
And you don't know that? I don't have any idea. I know Mr. Scearce
mentioned to me at the time of the Council meeting when the discussion was to hire an investigation Mr. Scearce and I left Council chambers, stepped out in the hall, he went out one door, I went out the door on the other side of the room and he came around to where I was sitting, and the speaker system is such that out in the hallway you can hear what's going on inside the chamber. And
someone brought that up about the note and he said it was taken off of the floor, but he didn't say by who. He has since indicated
that he'll provide a chain of custody, how he came into possession of that, so that's all I know about that. And what role do you believe that has to do with anything? I really don't see that it has any role. mean I don't know that there's any information on there that tells you anything one way or the other. Again I think the I
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. A. Q. Q. bigger question is how did it go from the City Manager's office to Mr. Scearce's possession. And my comments earlier were on the purchase or sale of homes. Obviously I intended that
to be extended to leasing or anything of that nature. Correct. And do you claim to have any inside knowledge at all about Scearce's bookmaking history? No. I know he's fairly interested in sports, Your answers would not change?
but beyond that I don't have a great deal of knowledge. Is this something that, and I guess - I mean you asked for the inquiry. Correct. Are you interested in impeaching him for some particular specific purpose? Not particularly impeach him, I just think that the public has questions about what was going on and what his level of involvement was. My assumption is that if there was any
criminal involvement he would have been charged by the FBI. That's kind of what I think.
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. So since they didn't charge him I'm assuming there was no criminal things. But the FBI
doesn't look for violations of Council ethics or rules or whatever, and given the public's questions I think that's what the Council has to determine. What I'm looking for from you
as the investigator is to get that file eventually, go through it, and tell us any pertinent information relative to his involvement at the Council ethics, rules, or whatever the case, and then Council would decide if there was anything inappropriate or not. And so I think again --
To do that one has to get the FBI file. Sure. And also to do that one has to have cooperation on the Police Chief? Sure. And I think you'd get that. But I
think the public has questions and if those questions aren't answered I think the credibility of the Council is at risk, people will lose confidence in the Council decisions, and I think if that happens our recovery, which even at the federal level they rave about how well we have done, if the
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. Q. Q. public loses trust in the Council's leadership and decisions the recovery is going to stop. At whatever point that
happens we'll be at that same point 10, 15, 20 years down the road and that's my concern. That's why I called for the investigation because the public has got questions and those questions need to be answered in order for us to stay on a positive path. When I issue the report traditionally my reports don't let go of these interviews. you understand why? Sure. I mean these interviews are extremely sensitive issues for everybody. You know, I Do
will tell you that we try to keep this all within the confines of this room, but there are other issues that pop up when these things happen. Sure, and I can understand your desire to limit the information to this room because of things that may be involved, other people. don't know what everybody else has interviewed, how that's gone, but I will tell you I would have no problem with you I
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. releasing my interview. I would give the
media the same answers that I've given you. Again I don't feel that I've done anything wrong and I think I've made not an extraordinary effort, but I've certainly made a concerted effort to avoid any conflict of interest and I think I've proven that once you go through here so I'm very comfortable with the public knowing what I've said in my answers to your questions. Would you be interested - you don't view this as my employer, you'd be interested to know that Mr. Scearce feels the same way? does that surprise you? No, not really. And like I said I don't know I mean
the extent of what he's done or not done so I can't make a judgment until I do know that. But I just mean I find it interesting that I think you - you know, we have obviously a divided Council to some extent, but that's not all bad, you know. said that's bad. There needs to be healthy discussion -Absolutely. -- and agreement for the public's benefit. I mean nobody ever
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. A. Q. Q. Absolutely. And I just don't - but sometimes
these things, like a blood clot, just all of a sudden it gets cut loose because of some other activity and it's collateral damage. Right. And we may have some of that in this case. So anything else that we should talk about then? I don't know if there's anything else officially we should talk about. I'd just be
curious about the time line of how you see this going. I really can't complete the
thing on him until you get the FBI file so there's no way of knowing how long that's going to take. Well, I'll be frank with you. I've been
Assistant U.S. Attorney and I have worked with the FBI when I've been out of the U.S. Attorney's office and I'll be surprised if you get an FBI report on that issue ever. And, you know, I've got a couple of witnesses that I probably will - it's not just my opinion, and I will probably in this report disclose that, but I think that's going to be very frustrating and some people just won't
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Q. cooperate and I'm surprised. And that's part of the reason I called for an investigation in hopes that the City through you would request exactly the same information that's been requested by the Globe and then we would send letters to our federal legislatures copying them on our request and hopefully that will get the FBI's attention. It may not. But my hope was that
given that additional letter and our federal legislatures have been contacted or copied on it that the FBI would speed up the process by which they're getting to us. According to
the Globe what they've said is that the FBI is redacting what they don't want to reveal or whatever so I guess that's where we're at. I'll let you know right now I've talked with two people that have supposed knowledge in this and both of them have nothing to say and are under admonition by the FBI not to deal with it. And it doesn't deal with this guy
anyway, it deals with bigger issues. Because that stuff I don't care about. They're supposed to have taken care whatever interest they have in those other people.
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. But I'm also interested in your final report. Knowing that you may never get that FBI file that's kind of an open ended time frame. If
you conclude your investigation on me, and I would think you could probably get that wrapped up in a week or less, once you draw your conclusions on that are you going to hold that until and give the entire report at one time, or are you going to -No, I'll give the entire report at one time and it will probably be done before December. I don't see an issue past that. And if
there is we can revisit it, but I don't see any. Okay. So I don't think I have anything further. Let me just briefly scan a couple of notes I've got and then we'll kind of wrap our situation up here. reference to? And what was that in
I forgot his name, I'm sorry.
My partner, my current -Oh, yeah, current. Correct. That's New Horizons?
(Short break taken 3:23 to 3:24 p.m., back on record)
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. Q. (By Mr. Loraine) Councilman Woolston, I have
appreciate your cooperation. Do you have any questions on the information that I've provided that I can clarify while I'm here? I think not. And if there becomes an issue
that I'd like to talk about later I'll chat with you if possible. I would bring it to
your attention to try not to talk to anybody about this. Sure. I mean one of my admonishments if you were a City employee I would tell you if you talk about it you're subjecting yourself to discipline. Obviously I can't tell you that,
but I want you to try to honor that. You don't want people collaborating on their stories. No, we really don't. Understand. Thank you, sir, for your help. appreciate it. All right. (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED) I do
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 48 1 2
Mike Woolston
In Re:
Page 49
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF MISSOURI ss. COUNTY OF JASPER I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the 6th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was examined. That examination was then taken by me by
steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith returned. I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of either party or of the attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this suit.
________________________ SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

Woolston, Mike - Vol (Investigation)

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Woolston, Mike - Vol (Investigation)

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Transcript of the Testimony of Mike Woolston

Date: November 6, 2013 Volume: I Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 13, 2013

Joplin Critical Investigation

JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

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Page 4 I N D E X Page/Line DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken (ph.) - phonetic

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1825 Connecticut, yeah.

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Page 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. A. Q. A. A. Q. Q. A. percent? Well, some of those would vary. The ones

Most of them were vacant

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Their family owned the

In September or October the

library project, which we had gotten an EDA

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we're trying to get at here.

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extent of the ones that I have abstained.

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