Ansbacher Cayman Report Appendix Volume 9

Record Number: 1999 /163 Cos
THE HIGH COURT

IN THE MATTER OF THE COMPANIES ACTS 1963 to 1990
AND IN THE MATTER OF PART II OF THE COMPANIES ACT 1990 AND SECTIONS 8 AND 17
AND IN THE MATTER OF ANSBACHER (CAYMAN) LIMITED
(formerly GUINNESS MAHON CAYMAN TRUST LIMITED,
ANSBACHER LIMITED and CAYMAN INTERNATIONAL BANK AND TRUST COMPANY
LIMITED)
R E P O R T OF T H E I N S P E C T O R S
A P P O I N T E D TO E N Q U I R E INTO T H E
A F F A I R S OF A N S B A C H E R (CAYMAN)
LIMITED
Published by Order of the Court made on 24 June 2002
V O L U M E [9]: A P P E N D I X X V ( 8 1 ) TO X V ( 9 5 )
ISBN 0-7557-1355-9
© Government of Ireland 2002

Appendix XV (81) Ms Susan Sheridan Mack
1. Evidence relied upon by the Inspectors in arriving at the conclusion relating to Ms
Susan Sheridan Mack.
a) Letter of 19 May 1992 - JD Traynor to Ansbacher Limited.
b) Letter of 14 December 1992 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.
c) Letter of 4 March 1993 - JD Traynor to Susan Sheridan Mack.
d) Letter of 27 January 1994 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.
e) Letter of 1 February 1994 - JD Traynor to Susan Sheridan Mack.
f) Letter of 25 October 1994 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.
g) IIB statement re Hamilton Ross & Co of 31 March 1994.
h) Letter of 10 March 1997 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.
i) Letter of 28 January 2002 - Gibbs & McCurley to Inspectors.

Appendix XV (81) (l)(a)
42 Fitzwilliam
T«fc7M14<WB30* DUBLIN 2.
Fax: 612038
FACSIMILE TRANSMISSION
To? . Ansbacher Limitad. F « HO. 001 809 9495267
Attention: Nr. M. bay. P*t«» 19th Hay, 1992.
From; J.D.Traynor.
Ra;HAMILTONROSSDEPOSITACCOUNT--SSM
This Client has telephoned looking for son* fund*. She

would l i k a t o have tfaraa ohequea plaaaa aaeh payable t o
haraalf - Susan Sheridan Hack - ona for 08$4 l 000.00 and the
other two for CS$3,000.00 aaoh (Total US$10,000). Could
you please arrange t o sand thaae three cheques t o har a t
her addraaa l a Florida which i s
5959 Bayviaw Circle South,

Gmncinr,
Florida 33707,
- 0. S. A.
I f you have a prablea, plaaaa advlsa.
Regards, -
J.D. Travnor.
JDT/AJW
Appendix XV (81) (1) (b)
Please reply to: PO Boz 887, Grand Cayman
42FitzwilliamSquare, . tWephooenKU) WW3 Telex: CP
Dublin 2 RustoiBo! (Mm 949-7946. ON) 949-3267
TH.-76JWV7S3065
BUB 612035
14th December, 1992. .

Ronan Redmond, E s q . ,
Corporate Services,
I r i s h Intercontinental Bank Limited,
91 Merrion Square,
Dublin 2
Dear Ronan,
Iconfirm having requested you t h i s morning t o open a new ..
U.S. Dollar Account in tha name of Hamilton Ross Co. Limited
Ref.'A/A56 and you hava allocated the number 03/39317/01 t o
t h i s Account. We w i l l be having a transfer made shortly
via Kredietbank New York for t h i s Account and w i l l advise you
of the amount when we know the funds are en route.
Could you also please arrange t o open two more Deposit Accounts
in the name of Hamilton Ross Co. limited - U.S. Dollars -
with references A/A57 and A/A58. Two Deposits are due t o
mature on 4th January and a t m a t u r i t y we w i l l be making
arrangements t o have them transferred via Kradietbank New York
to you. for c r e d i t t o these' two new Accounts. In due course
please advise the numbers allocated and we will of course l e t
you know the amounts' being transferred when we have been
advised.
Yours sincerely
For Hamilton Ross Co. Limited

Appendix XV (81) (1) (c)
4th March, 1993.
Mrs Susan Sheridan Mack,

5959 Bayview Circle North
Gulfport
Florida 33707
USA
Dear Mrs. Mack

As requested I have pleasure in enclosing herewith two
cheques, each in the sum of $4000 payable to yourself.
Kind regards
Yours sincerely
J.D. TRAYNOR
/•N
f • .•'
Vwx 5*»
•••-.•1 " • •
27th ffaoaacy, 1994
B o n a M a o o d t ®Ktv
Corpora^*- JarvlOM; *'
I ^ A ^ n t j r o o B t i i ^ ^ V fiuA Limit**,--
DgatsSSj^
' - i
Dear Ronan,
Daar-JUman,-^ fcarawlth 1 . 8 . * ^
»••*• sîe a* •
Could yon p l a a s a t i & a a g s t o 1 s t a s hava for oollaotlon. ttaie*^ 1
O.8. Dollar ehaqoaa aaeh payablavttf KRS.SOSAW BaMfmOMam
and M d i l a t b a staoa' of'DS«3,000.00.
Plaaaa d a b i t a l ^ t h r a a O to'-ftaidltio1 »osi» n'.S. Hollar Account
Mo.03/39273/81.
Toura i alncaral , y^ rc! V <
a t.^MtTSP
Appendix XV (81) (1) (e)
f --•••v.,4 •"•'•": y ' : " • .
• J: ' '••. •• j; . ; .'-v./'/ v. \tc •'•••••-•" •• i .,-.•••." V-t

Appendix XV (81) (1) (If)
n Hamilton Ross Co. Limited
Please reply to: P.O. Box 887, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands, British Wot Indies
42 RtzwflHam Square, Telephone: (809)949-8635 Telex: CP4305
Dublin 2. Facsimile: (809) 949-7946, (809) 949-5267
TH: 676 5144*76 3065
Fb: 6612035
• 'V;
• ?
<'
Ms.DaireNoin-Ca«idy, 25th October, 1994. •V

Corporate Services,
XotttCOfltiOttlttl Btfllt T jfflltf^j
I > 91 Mental Square,
DUBLIN 2. •
DearDains,
Could you please arrange to 1st us h mfor coDecdon threes. Doflard«qw»eac^

in the sum of US$3,000.00 and each payabletoSUSAN SHpUDAN-MAOC.
Please debit the costtoHamilton R O M U.S. Dollar Account RsC A/A58
No.03/39273/81.' ,. •. .„.'••
Youmsincerdy, j-V
.•• i
. .v
For HAMIl.TOH ROSS CO. IMTEP.
• ;r
•M
•
ZAffi
T
STATEMENT HAIULIUH MUM CU- U ( J R E F . A / * 5 « " . < : W - . S
SS^jSfe?? WSB'alliliQIXmNmAL'BA^m' i-0
C / 0 CORPORATE SERVICES''
ATTN NR ROMAN REOHOND •
•" "
TrK ••• numtms^m; . •
MMh2* • :
INCOME (01) 6W74*
• * .»...»
!^
A/CL 0 3 / 3 9 2 7 3 / 0 1
USD
(01)719094 i •
i*
DEP. CL OEN HON RES
(MTWMTMTK
PA6E NO*' 0 0 1 3 31MAR94
MTI OCTAJLS • • • VMM MNT CMCCT grtt/UfCg

. MTI
2SFEB94 BROUGHT FORWARD 206/133.96
07MAR94 NEW CR RATE 3.23000000 07MAR94 206/153.96
14HAR94 NEW CR RATE 3.00000000 14MAR94 206/133.96
c. >•
»•(
21HAR94
ZSMAR94
NEW CR RATE
NEW CR RATE
3.25000000
3.37500000
21MAR94
20HAR94 -
206/155.96
206/135.96
31NAR94 INTEREST TO 31NAR94 31MAR94 3.147.44 209/323.40
. » -
*
L •
• •
•
So
c C' c c
Appendix XV (81) (1) (h)
HamOton R o n Co. Limited
r^
P.0 box 887, Grand Cayman, Cayaaa hlarafc British Wat ladle*
8 Inns Court, TbtapboM: (109)949-8633 "Wax: CP 4305
iftToetitemSnwt.
Dublin 8. Facsimile: (809) 949-7946, (809)949-3267
V
"•J.
10tk March 1997
Ma.Panl»Hartnett
JaOk Intarcanrincntal Bank.
91 Manias Square ; •7 "M
4S
Dublin 2
Dear Paula • -V
• U)
. .'a
PhMoan^totewlavellmBUSiDd^ to
Ma. S u m Sheridaa-Maok.
Please ddwt the coat to 03/39273/81. I'
Yours aiocerdy
*' . » *
•L /
I*' ;
' : \ '
•L
i ..
GIBBS & McCURLEY,FA
. 0 1 / 3 0 / 2 0 0 2 1 4 : 5 8 F A X 727 8 9 2 6002 m uui
GIBBS & MCCURLEY, RA.

Attorneys At Uw
100 Second Avenue South, Suite 704-S
St. Petersburg, Florida 33701
Telephone (727) 892-6001
Facsimile (727) 892.6002
J/AM 7 M
January 28, 2002
His Honour Judge Sean O'Leary

Ms. Noreen Mackey B.L.
Mr. Paul Rowan FCA
Mr. Michael Cush S C.
Re: Ms. Susan Sheridan Mack
Dear Sirs and Madams:
Reference is made to your correspondence of December 17, 2001 affording Ms.

Sheridan Mack an opportunity to provide you with a written reply to the preliminary
conclusions reached by you relating to Ansbacher.
Please be advised that Ms. Mack has retained the undersigned to represent her
with respect to this matter. As you may or not be aware, Ms. Mack's father, John D.
Sheridan died in January, 1983. Subsequently, in 1985 Ms. Mack first heard of
Ansbacher and began receiving distributions. Ms. Mack has no idea how she acquired
her interest, but presumed that it was inheritedfrom her father.
Please understand that Ms. Mack is never considered herself a "client" of

Ansbacher and still does not do so. Again, she has little knowledge of the investment
and still assumed that it was inherited.
If we can be of any further service to you please contact the undersigned.
Sincerely,
GIBBS & McCURLEY, P.A.
(Signed in the absence of B. Gray Gibbs to avoid delay)
BGG/klk
Appendix XV (82) Ms Mary Maher (nee Lynam)
Mary Maher (nee Lynam)
a) Unsworn statement of Mr Edward Lynam dated 23 June 2000.
b) Letter of 22 June 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Solicitor to the

Inspectors.
2. Correspondence received from or on behalf of Ms Mary Maher (nee Lynam).
a) Letter of 21 August 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.
b) Letter of 21 August 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.
c) Letter of 17 September 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.
d) Letter of 26 October 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.

REVISED UNSWORN STATEMENT OF
EDDIE LYNAM
I, Eddie Lynam, make this statement supplemental to my unsworn Statement of 23rd

March, 2000.
I should mention that I was asked on 23rd March, 2000 by the Honourable Mr. Justice
Costello to ascertain whether I had any further documentation, including any trust
documentation or letters of wishes.
When I met with the Inspectors on 23rd March, 2000 I furnished to them all
documentation which was within my possession, power or procurement at that time.
Subsequent to my meeting with the Inspectors, I earned out a further search of my
house (having previously carried out thorough searches at my home) and I uncovered
further documentation that I had not beau aware of prior to the meeting.
I enclose further copy bank statementsfrom Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited. As you

previously indicated to me by letter dated 23rd December, 1999 that you have no
interest infinancial details, I have accordingly been advised by my Solicitors that it is
appropriate for me to delete such details. I have also uncovered two letters of wishes,
one dated 3rd September, 1981, the other dated 5th March, 1987.
In February, 19941 instructed Mr Des Traynor to transfer my account into the names
of my son and daughter, Bryan Lynam arid Mary Lynam, for convenience purposes
only. My children were aware that the beneficial interest in the monies would remain
with me.
I also enclose herewith further correspondence received by me from Mr Padraig

Colleiy, Ms Joan Williams and Mr Des Traynor which I discovered as a result of my
recent search. It would also appearfrom the documentation enclosed herewith that on
certain occasions where Mr Des Traynor was unable to contact me (to receive
instructions), the deposit was "rolled over", by Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited, on his
instructions.
I can now also confirm that the joint-account which I held with my brother was split
in approximately March, 1987. This is evidenced by a letter from Mr Des Traynor.
On 23rd March, 20001 was under the mistaken belief that at no stage did I transfer
any funds to an account in the Isle of Man. It would appearfrom the documentation
enclosed herewith (that I have recently discovered) that monies were transferred to
Ulster Bank, Isle of Man, by Mr Des Traynor, on my instructions. I apologisefor any
confusion that might have been caused in this regard. Without the benefit of this
information I would not have been in a position to confirm that I gave these
instructions to Mr. Des Traynor. I still have no recollection of giving these
instructions to Mr. Des Traynor. _.
As you are aware, I wrote to Mr Padraig Collery asking him to furnish to me any
documentation that he might have had in relation to my account. I also wrote to
Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited and Mr. Cathal Mac Carthy of Guinness Mahon
(Ireland) limited. I have not received & replyfrom any of these parties.
Date yo
Sign L.
Mr Eddie Lynam
(1477A)01EC/DOCS/STATE2.DOC)
Appendix XV (82) (l)(b)
SOLICITORS
TlLIPHONB: 333+1 ui gui

Ms. Mary Cummins,
Solicitor to the Inspectors,
3rd Floor, on. nut 1477-001/LKS/EC/010612L2
Trident House,
Blackrock,
Co. Dublin You* i n C/L06/MLC/mf
22* June, 2001
Re: Onr Client: Edward P. Lynam
Dear Ms. Cummins, a* <m m
We refer to your letter of 12& inst
Our client instructs us to respond to your letter as foHows:-
Regarding paragraphs 1 and 2
As you are aware, our client instructed Mr Desmond Traynor to transfer Ids account held with Ansbacher
(Cayman) Limited ("Ansbacher") to the names of his son and daughter, Bryan Lynam and Mary Lynam.
Our client gave this instruction to Mr Traynor for convenience purposes only (our client retaining the
beneficial interest in the monies), however, our client is not sure whether he communicated this specific
fact to Mr Traynor. Our client instructs us that after receiving Mr Traynor's reply of 7 t h March, 1994,
our client received no further correspondencefrom Mr TVaynor or Mr Coll cry to the best of his
knowledge and that any other correspondence relating to this account was sent to Ms Mary Lynam.
Our client understands that Ms. Maty Lynam and Mr Bryan Lynam wrotetoMr Collery by letter dated
22 n d February, 1995 on our client's instructions and instructed him to transfer the fluids held with
Ansbacher to an account in Ulster Bank (Isle of Man) Limited. This letter also sought confirmation that
the account with Ansbacher had been closed.
Regarding Paragraph 3
As previously advised, our client instructs us that to the best of his knowledge no lodgments were made
to the account held by him with Ansbacher after the initial lodgment. The correspondence referred to in
your letter under reply refers totiiebank account being "rolled over" on a periodic basis.
We trust this letter clarifies your queries.
Yo' ,rc Fulli/
L K SHIELDS. SOLICITORS.
Appendix XV (82) (2) (a)
SOLICITORS
39/40 UPPER M O U N T STREET
DUBLIN 2, IRELAND.
TELEPHONE: 3 5 3 + 1 6 6 1 0866
FACSIMILE: 353+1 661 0883
D.D.E. Box No: 123
E-MAIL: email@lkshields.ie
WEBSITE: http://www.lkshields.ie
His Honour Judge Sean O'Leary,
Ms. Noreen Mackey B.L., O U R REF:
1477-001/EC/BMG/011023L3
Mr Paul Rowan F.C.A. & Mr Michael Cush S.C.
Joint- Inspectors, Third Floor,
YOUR REF: C/L06/NSPM
Trident House, Blackrock, Co. Dublin
26th October, 2001
Re: Our Client: Ms. Mary Maher
Dear Sirs/Madam,
We refer to your letter of 11"' October, 2001, the contents of which we have noted.
We assume that your preliminary conclusion that our client was a "client of Ansbacher" (which you
have not defined, despite our requests) was determined on the basis of the existence of our client's
name as a signatory on the account and letters signed by her and not on any consideration of the
beneficial ownership of the account. If so, it seems to us that you have attached a meaning to the
concept of "client" which is strained and quite simply wrong and results in a serious injustice to our
client. We do not accept that your terms of reference entitle you to resolve disputed issues as to the
meaning of this term. Your function is, inter alia, to identify persons falling into a certain category
and not to reach conclusions of law as to the meaning of that category. If there is doubt, it should
be resolved by the court before our client's good name is impugned.
i I n the event that you are of the view that our assumption is incorrect and you consider the issue of
beneficial ownership to be relevant to forming your preliminary conclusions then we invite you to
call our client to an interview with you on the usual involuntary basis.
Finally, we note that your letter under reply was not signed by Mr Michael Cush, S.C.
Vrtnro fa 1 tl-i-fi 111\/
LAURENCE K. SHIELDS, EDMUND BUTLER, PATRICIA McGOVERN, HUGH GARVEY, JOSEPH M. GAVIN. EMMET SCULLY, GERARD HALPENNY.
JUSTIN McKENN A, MICHAEL KAVANACH. EUGENE FANNING, DAVID J.H. WILLIAMS, FIONA THORNTON, NICOLA PALMER,
AOIFE BRADI EY, STEPHEN BRENNAN, SIOUHAN BUCKLEY, PAULA BURKE, EOIN CUNNEEN, PHILIP DALY. PAT FOX, MARCO W. HICKEY, CONOR MULLANY, JAMES McGlLLION,
NIAMH McKEON, ORLMCH O'DVVYER, DEJiVAL O' HALLORAN, JENNIFER O'NEILL, GARBHAN O'NUALLAIN, CORA CRAMPTON {Financial Controller), THOMAS JACKSON (Consultant).
SOLICITORS
DUBLIN 2, IRELAND.
W& Mh TELEPHONE: 3 5 3 + 1 6 6 1 0866

FACSIMILE: 353+1 661 0883
D.D.E. Box No: 123
E-MAIL: email@lkshields.ie
The Inspectors, W E B S I T E : http://www.lkshields.ie
His Honour Judge Sean O'Leary, O U R REF:
Ms Noreen Mackey B.L., Mr Paul Rowan F.C.A., 1477-001/LKS/EC/010820L3

Mr Michael Cush S.C.,
YOUR REF:
4th Floor,
Trident House,
Blackrock,
County Dublin. 21 st August, 2001
Re: Our Clients: Mr Bryan Lynam & Ms. Mary Maher
Dear Sirs/Madam,
We refer to your letters of 31st July, 2001 with enclosures to our clients and are instructed to
reply to same. We note that you have formed the preliminary conclusion that our clients were "a
client of Ansbacher" and that you have afforded our clients the opportunity to provide you with a
written reply to this preliminary conclusion.
While it is acknowledged that you have set out the procedures to be followed by the Inspectors at
Appendix C to your letters of 31s' July, 2001, prior to advising our clients to provide any written
response, or indeed any response, we request certain assurances from you.
We refer you to the Supreme Court Judgment In the Matter of National Irish Bank Limited,
(unreported, 21st January, 1999), in which Judgment Mr. Justice Barrington stated, inter alia,:-
"In these circumstances I would uphold the decision of the learned High Court Judge but
would add the statement that a confession of a Bank Official obtained by the Inspectors as a
result of the exercise by them of their powers under Section 10 of the Companies Act, 1990
would not, in general, be admissible at a subsequent criminal trial of such Officials, unless, in
any particular case, the trial Judge was satisfied that the confession was voluntary."
In order to protect the interests of our clients and to guard against any perception that our clients
will voluntarily answer questions, provide information or provide books or documents or
information to you as Inspectors (which they will not), we request that you confirm that you
accept that any information given, or questions answered, or books or records furnished, by our
clients would not be voluntarily given.
LAURENCE K. SHIELDS. EDMUND BUTLER, PATRICIA MtGOVERK HL'GH GARVHY, JOSEPH M. GAVIN, EMMET SCULLY, GERARD HALPENNY,
JUSTIN McKENNA, MICHAEL KAVANAGH, EUGENE TANNING, DAVID J.H. WILLIAMS, FIONA THORNTON, NICOLA PALMER,
AOIFE BRADLEY. STEPHEN DUENNAS', SIOBHAN BUCKLEY. PAULA BURKE, EOIN CUNNLtN. PHILIP DALY, PAT FOX, MARCO W. MICKEY. JANE MEEHAN, CONOR MULLANY. JAMES McCILLION,
NIAMH M> KEON, ORLA1GI1 O'DWYF.R, DEliVAL O' HAL.l.ORAN, JENNIFER O'NEILL, GARHHAN O'NUAL.LAIN, CORA CRAMPTON (Financial Controller), THOMAS JACKSON (Consultant).
- 2 -
We look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully,
SHIELDS, SOLICITORS
SOLICITORS
DUBLIN 2, IRELAND.
TELEPHONE: 3 5 3 + 1 6 6 1 0866
FACSIMILE: 353+1 661 0883
D.D.E. Box No: 123
E - M A I L : email@lkshields.ie
The Joint Inspectors, W E B S I T E : http://www.lkshields.ie
3rd Floor,
Trident House, 1477-001/LKS/EC/010917L1
Blackrock,
Y O U R REF:
Co. Dublin
BY COURIER C/L13/C/M47/MLC/mf
17th September, 2001
re: Mary Maher (nee Lynam)
Dear Sirs/Madam,
We refer to previous correspondence in relation to our client Mary Maher and to your
preliminary conclusions communicated in your letter of the 31 st July 2001. Let us firstly put on
record our instructions that our client was not at any stage a "client" of Ansbacher and did not at
any stage have any beneficial interest in any funds in any Ansbacher account.
With reference to the Inspectors' preliminary conclusions in relation to Mr. Edward Lynam, we
note your comment that:-
"Although Mr. Lynam claims to have retained the beneficial interest in the deposit
account, the documents do not support this assertion. "
This, combined with the reference to the change of a name, is an implied finding that our client
held a beneficial interest in that account after February 1994. That finding would be immensely
damaging to our client's good name and would reflect a position which is untrue in fact. We
believe this to be an unjustified attack on our client's good name in circumstances where the
unchallenged evidence of Edward Lynam is that he was at all times the beneficial owner.
Indeed, there is no other evidence as to beneficial ownership of the funds in that account. There
is, of course, evidence as to a change of name of the account but that does not address the issue
of beneficial ownership. It is quite wrong to refer to the change of name independently of the
true position on beneficial ownership and in a way which creates the misleading impression that
our client was a client of Ansbacher.
LAURENCE K. SHIELDS, EDMUND BUTLER, PATRICIA McGOVERN, HUGH GARVEY, JOSEPH M. GAVIN, EMMET SCULLY, GERARD HALPENNY,
JUSTIN McKENNA, MICHAEL KAVANAGH, EUGENE FANNING, DAVID J.I I. WILLIAMS, FIONA THORNTON, NICOLA PALMER,
AOIFE BRADLEY, STEPHEN BRENNAN, SIOBHAN BUCKLEY, PAULA BURKE, EOIN CUNNEEN, PHILIP DALY, PAT FOX, MARCO W. HICKEY, JANE MEEHAN, CONOR MULLANY, JAMES McGILLION,
NIAMH McKEON, ORLAIGH O'DWYER, DERVAL O' HALLORAN, JENNIFER O'NEILL, GARBHAN O'NUALLAIN, CORA CRAMPTON (Financial Controller). THOMAS JACKSON (Consultant).
In the light of your invitation to our client to submit a written statement we now enclose an
affidavit sworn by our client setting out the true position on oath. Please note that our client
submits this affidavit under compulsion of the process in which the Inspectors are engaged and in
that sense, it is not a voluntary statement. However, if you have any doubt as to the veracity of
what our client says on oath, we invite you to exercise your powers to require her to attend for
cross-examination and confirm that if so required, she will attend.
In the circumstances, we request you to alter your conclusions and not include any finding to the
effect that Mary Maher enjoyed the use of the funds on deposit and not to include a conclusion
that Mary Maher was a "client" of Ansbacher since both of those conclusions would be untrue,
unsupported by the evidence and in all the circumstances, an unjustified attack on our client's
good name.
Yours faithfully,
SOLICITORS
DUBLIN 2, IRELAND.
TELEPHONE: 3 5 3 + 1 6 6 1 0866
FACSIMILE: 353+1 661 0883
D.D.E. Box No: 123
E - M A I L : email@lkshields.ie
WEBSITE: http://www.Ikshields.ie
His Honour Judge Sean O'Leary,
Ms. Noreen Mackey B.L., O U R REF:
1477-001/EC/BMG/011023L3
Mr Paul Rowan F.C.A. & Mr Michael Cush S.C.
Joint- Inspectors, Third Floor,
YOUR REF: C/L06/NSPM
Trident House, Blackrock, Co. Dublin
26th October, 2001
Re: Our Client: Ms. Mary Maher
Dear Sirs/Madam,
We refer to your letter of 11"' October, 2001, the contents of which we have noted.
We assume that your preliminary conclusion that our client was a "client of Ansbacher" (which you
have not defined, despite our requests) was determined on the basis of the existence of our client's
name as a signatory on the account and letters signed by her and not on any consideration of the
beneficial ownership of the account. If so, it seems to us that you have attached a meaning to the
concept of "client" which is strained and quite simply wrong and results in a serious injustice to our
client. We do not accept that your terms of reference entitle you to resolve disputed issues as to the
meaning of this term. Your function is, inter alia, to identify persons falling into a certain category
and not to reach conclusions of law as to the meaning of that category. If there is doubt, it should
be resolved by the court before our client's good name is impugned.
i I n the event that you are of the view that our assumption is incorrect and you consider the issue of
beneficial ownership to be relevant to forming your preliminary conclusions then we invite you to
call our client to an interview with you on the usual involuntary basis.
Finally, we note that your letter under reply was not signed by Mr Michael Cush, S.C.
Vrtnro fa 1 tl-i-fi 111\/
LAURENCE K. SHIELDS, EDMUND BUTLER, PATRICIA McGOVERN, HUGH CARVEY, JOSEPH M. GAVIN. EMMET SCULLY, GERARD HALPENNY.
JUSTIN McKENN A, MICHAEL KAVANACH. EUGENE FANNING, DAVID J.H. WILLIAMS, FIONA THORNTON, NICOLA PALMER,
AOIFE BRADLEY, STEPHEN BRENNAN, SIOBHAN BUCKLEY, PAULA BURKE, EOIN CUNNEEN, PHILIP DALY. PAT FOX, MARCO W. HICKEY, CONOR MULLANY, JAMES McGlLLION,
NIAMH McKEON, ORLMCH O'DVVYER, DEKVAL O' HALLORAN, JENNIFER O'NEILL, GARBHAN O'NUALLAIN, CORA CRAMPTON {Financial Controller), THOMAS JACKSON (Consultant).
Appendix XV (83) Sir George Mahon, deceased
1. Evidence relied upon by the Inspectors in arriving at the conclusion relating to Sir
George Mahon.
a) Letter of 11 November 1977 - George Mahon to Guinness and Mahon.
b) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo of 11 May 1976.
c) Guinness and Mahon statement re GMCT - a/c A/Q.

•r
- • • • •
/-Srf! DnH
in O
( Dw
- wvr. GRKKN1NOH,
.7 * k * - v<f» *NN18KK»Ky,
<wt, ft. ^ ^ " K m ^ J
> a t " • !
A; t* YiauÛ.. ' ^ ^ t f r o s z ^
H t h *ay£ 1976
On Sir George's.Instructions ve have purchased

US $ 39,000.00 Bank of Scotland 7$t Kurodollar ponds
for tha above. Vould yon pleas* arrange to debit
Dursey's Fixed Dollar Deposit Account and pay" OS $ '
28,413.18 to Morgan Guarantee Trust Coapany of lev
York account Suroclear Brussels, ref. L.H.L. 02716
Settlement 13th May, 197?
O.fir Eef: ic/BL

Milium
11» >/• KH
i' N CAYMAN T»UI G U I N N E S S + M A F K M U B
u.i. mux
»1«»»/0j/»l
SKIW " l l LEDGER
•A
t TUUT »«• 40jgn7t
OZJON7* BALANCE HROUFCUT I t l l i l l l
mua7*
i«juht» icti«t looicoi
200
amon latvsiaitt I«CO»P
ikcoaraaarra s.zir.ta
1If»JU
JUNN77»I M l ZO O IH lO l
t
O L C *«r
« M10| N io.zz«.ia
7.175.00
1ITJUN7(
*JUN7« 1(1 1S1>020DM l TI0M
KH
l AM THhAL
I
O C0IP0IA110N
MIIINtll HACK M M . I I
soi* looloo aoaaf*
« R I A M K M C I I K coar Ujo»ra II.771.At
iwwn iwur Uju»7a 7,4*7.50
Z M I M W :A»U to HEX roac -1) JUKI
« J U * R » . LIMON. z o o M I * » I T « H .
ZDJQARA; ifntorf- IOOFTONACAANLA*
WL ZMifare i«r ««7»-*o ai/z i co«v
i9 zvmrfs nv» ON too cmamua TAACIM
21JUNM II«a ON 400 CABKlia col, -^.-"•54.00

214IWRT ON. stun AI FINANCE
M JUN7E U>»{»«•OH on 7zoo toaat* »».
• .114.
40.01Z0
o J8JIM7*
soj uNT* >I
V » nt 10 000aevcatlANUEcoir FACIHC. Al.00
JIMUN7S INTiaitT 2*111O
..OD
Z
3
o»»
D
Appendix XV (84) Mr Alexander H Major
1. Evidence relied upon by the Inspectors in arriving at the conclusion relating to Mr
Alexander H Major.
a) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo of 30 December 1982.
b) Letter of 14 December 1982 - GMCT to Guinness and Mahon.
c) Letter of 8 February 1983 - Guinness and Mahon to Mr. Major.
d) Telex of 28 February 1983 - GMCT to Guinness and Mahon.
e) Photostats of 4 cheques dated 26 August 1986.

&
rm^WS''
.: -.v.. .: •;: ii'r.^-i-i
l
. z
• • jvvv^-^'
' • • • -V x f • ' 'V
• •.•••:.• -.I-! r ' -
«. -4
«f>. \
Loan 129^900.00 .•i1 •• '',rI, '

L ^ .. $100,000.00
. ' • ' .«••vV.
Alex Mkjor plion^ 1^-daiy and Informed me he was asking arrangements

with G.M.CiT. to pay I r t t e m t due 26th November. Checked with M1k» Shields wbo
said he wasunaware-df the position. Mike Shields Is to revert. Alex Major
has been'mde awarefay.Hike that all positions may be 'closed out'.
No further action necessary at tha moment.
V-
PO'D/SC •
30th Decoaber,;:198Z.'
,••••• : •. • • I • •.
-V v.; •/•: y«V v.. , .
i. i-s W*
GUINNESS MAHON CAYMAN TRUST LIMITED
A Member 6# the Oiinnwe IWwn M*dW ewMrig Qreup
Telephone No *4«S3/4 P.O. Box UT
Telex CP 4305 OnM Cayman
Cable AMnee Gutaneee Bmh Vtae! Indlee
December 14, 1982

your fel
Guinness 4- Mahon Limited

17 College Green
Dublin 2
P.O. Box 55A
Iceland.
Attention* Pat O'Dwver
Dear Pat,
Eei Alex Hilor/Ouinness & Mahon Ltd./
Prowisaory Note - US$100,000.00
I an enclosing the signed original of the above Promissory Note
for your records.
Yours sincerely.
Michael V. Shield.
MWS/cp
End.
• • - .V.•
8th Fabnary, 1983 "V

Our Raf: BO/SC
: J..
•vfr -uVi
Mr. Major, fx .
31. Union Squara Mast, . • - I -V
Suite 11300,;,,'
New York .10003,
U.S.A.
Oaar Mr. Major,

I wita to •dvlsa -that 1ntara«t dua on your four J . M l ^ n Aecount»
as at 2Sth Ffruaty. 1963 trtll wwwt », n a a t
t o m H t OMT MCP«tatfcwufteturars Hswvar1*ttCwpmy, 4 Naw Tor* n a » .
Naw York vrith tha said sua. V«1IM FPTFI Fabrwary. 1983.
Yours slncaraly,
r •ii'.w
Irmfen UMMII* .1
'.'j^vy
* '
• • »V
£. .• . . . i • •i .
•• nvi
:
^ •• -v i t ' ! # .• i • • V''
v - - ••. ' j • ^ • - •••••• ' •
~ <r • r » 'rTf1*'f.Br*.^ V*1*1*-.* •• * — • w!' * •

: — ' - •-»;*.« - . ' • • j m - r t - •••..••. .... a-.
.. • •% • • . i* !:•.«./>:.» . «
• . • .. . •v • . • A..
• '! r.'i •• • • 'At. f ':» •. ••". -'j
. • • V jfyitir ^• * \ .;. 1
•r 'sfi.r*:.>•• V' . • r . >• v . •'. •>.n
Appendix XV (84) (1) (d)
23203 MARS EI
_ TO.- GUINNESS MAHON CAYMAN TRUST

r FROM* 6UINNES8+MAH0N LTD. DUBLIN
r*TEi 28/2/83
AT7»i- MIKE'SHIELDS
ALEX MAJOR US'bLRS' LOANS'.

GUINNESS MAHON CAYMAN TRUST US DLR8 DEPOSITS
WE WISH TO ADVi8E THAT THE ABOVE ACCOUNTS HERE ON THE 23/2/83

RENEWED FOR A.r¥,URTffER THREE MONTHS TO 26/3/83. THE EFFECTIVE
RATE ON THE LOAN A/C'S IS NOU tlX PER ANNUM I.E. 2t OVER COST
OF THREE MONTtf"$VNDSt THE RATE 8EIN6 ALLOWED ON THE DEPOSIT A/C'S
IS 10 i/4X PER&NNUM I.E. i 1/tZ OVER COST OF THREE MONTH FUNDS.
.
THE INTEREST .EARNED ON THE DEPOSIT A/C'S OF US DLRS 23,876-52
WILL BE TRANSFERRED TO YOUR 7 DAY8 NOTICE DEPOSIT A/C AT GUINNESS '
MAHON A CO. , LONDON WHEN WE RECEIVE FROM MR. MAJOR THE INTEREST
DUE ON HIS LOAN.A/C'S. HOPEFULLY THIS REMITTANCE OF US DLRS
27. ,%30-87 WILL BE .RECEIVED WITHIN THE NEXT FEW DAYS. WHEN RECEIVED
WILL IMMEDIATELY BE INFORMED.
RSSARDSt
oJINNESS+MAHON f.TD.t DUBLIN.
: h*
-V3C3 6MCT CP,
23205 MARS.^t&^f
SENT AT t3.30M• ' -
A ALEXANDER H. MAJOR
30 LINCOLN PLAZA
NCW YORK. N Y 10013 .Al&ySt tftgj.
«o.?J2K. 6UINESS+MH0N LTD -I * 300,000.00

Three.Hundred -Thousand Collars4J)qZ1QQ= T.DO I t A US
USTrust ffl&VSi""""*-
4» «M SU
Navvwk, NMY. MOO*
for
«« Principal Jg_fyll,,f$ loan dated..
.sozttWttafc S£fl3 5»«
AtBXANOeR H. MAJOR
r* 30 UNCOLN PLAZA
NBW YORK, NY 10023 August 26 t »86
asar mmsmm LTD -> * 400.000.00

Four Hundred Thousand Dollars 4 no/100——— n n 1 1 A „s
ITCTVtfC* UMTUOTITISTRUST CO.
U & L I U S I Of mm torn
•••••""•» U Wa* (MM i
«ay-10—J983-
Principaffrflfirtor loan dated A (T)
•»:o2ioomai: t i s & a a s*
i
AUXANOER H. MAJOR
30 UNCOLN PLAZA 221
NEW YORK, NY tOOtt
1-lJt/ttO
ftT^S" 6UIMESS+MHQM LTD j $ 23.6iz.aa
Twenty Three Thousand Six Hundred Twelve * 88/100 A«s
USDrust j j ^ W ™ T C a ,
Interest*™"/^Pon SI00K loan dated JwAJr W A
2/22/82 -fronr8/27/84 t j 8/26/86" ^ :^ ^ A
*i:oaioaiaia«: E>l s&ai S* * \
ALEXANDER H. MAJOR 208

31 U N C O L N PLAZA
NEW YORK, N Y 1009
_.Aagjist_j§_ 19 _8i wjimo
««£!!*_ ..GUINESStMAHQN _L7Q _ 1 $ 100,000.00
....One Hundred-Thousand.Dollars JLnoZlQflh r.OOLLARS
1
j| USTrust S a W S ? " " " "
a S M M M M M , 4 vvjll Straw
I PrinclpaT• n r w i T V Iwn dJted
( February 22, 1982
•j_i:o2ioot3i»a«: &; s ^ a a 5*
T
Appendix XV (85) Ms Augustina Russek de Malamud
Augustina Russek de Malamud.
a) Promissory Note in favour of Guinness and Mahon of 5 February 1982.
b) Letter of 1 March 1982 - Guinness and Mahon to Isaac Carlos Malamud,

Carlos David Malamud & German Malamud.
c) Letter of 24 January 1984 - Guinness and Mahon to Carlos D Malamud.
d) Internal Guinness and Mahon credit memo of 11 July 1984.
e) Internal Guinness and Mahon credit memo of 17 January 1989.

n
f Wa, Isaac Carlos Malaaud,-.!

PHIHlSSORr NOTE
UrVos
Oate: .Wbruary.5,.1982....
David Matawd, Ganaan Hal mod, c/o, Isaac C.

Maiwud t Sons, 4990,'HtfSlon Boulevard, Suit* 2, San Oalno, CsUornU 92109,
U.S.A., hereby Ja&gff l Severally promtj« to pay to Guinness * Mahon. United I
\
of 17, CoHajfjwfin. Oublfn 2, Ireland the sum of Five Hundred and Fifty 1[
Thousand UiftiiTStates Dollars (U.S.$550,000.00)"together with interest thereo,,
All payments
a t the rate ofonsixteen
account percent
of principal and on
per annual interest In respect orof drawdown
the anniversary this loanof shall
safd
be
sun.affectively «ade to Guinness + Mahon L1«1 tad w1,tho^fcf set-off or counter-
claim, free and clear of, and without deduction .for-'or on account of, any and
all present and future sUitp taxes, levies, frpdsts, duties, deductions,
withholdings, reserves or other charges [of-whatsoever nature, toposed, levied,
collected, withheld ar assessed by i|n/-Gbvan«ent or any political subdivision
or tax authority thereof.
This Note is imt negotiable and any holder shall take this Note subject to all
claim, defense, and rights of set-off which My exist a t any tiae.
SIGNED
JLuuuuj SHSNEO"^
SltjNEO
V,'
i
\
O C
I
Appendix XV (85) (I) (b)
UP*
L
GUINNESS+MAHON LTD
JNKERS 17 C d l m Gntn Oubllii 2 P.O. Box 55A TM: 716944 (17 Un«)
four Ref: PO'D/SC 1st.March, 7982.
Mr. Isaac Carlos Malamud,

s Mr. Carlos David Malamud,
Mr. 6aman Malamud,
' o , Isaac C. Malamud S Sons,
\*8s90, Mission Boulevard,
U e 2,
Del go,
c Hfornla 92109,
S.A.
•=a;
Dear Sirs, S";
Ue have successfully concluded a loan transaction 1n the amount,

of U.S.S 550,000 at 163 per annum for a one year period. After carefully
reviewing your financial statements and the office building project In
Solana Beach, California-, we confirm that we are willing to make a loan
on the following terms and condltlons:-
Borrower: Isaac Carlos Malamud and Carlos David Malamud and
German Malamud on a j o i n t and several basis.
^ ?unt: U.S.$250,000.00 (TVio Hundred and Fifty Thousand) -
U.S. Dollars. ,
at r<sti-n*r*-S
t pose: To Invest in a leal esUile'HIujtttl, an ulTlue boildliii)
iH-Snlana Beach, California, through TCn>l QjulLlm> 2,
) Limited, a U.S. Partnership.
Term: One year. S
Date of Approximately April 1st, 1982.

Drawdown:
Interest: Commercial rate at date of drawdown.
Payment of Payable 1n full on the anniversary of drawdown.
Principal and
Interest:
Security: Promissory notes on a Joint & Several basis signed by
all the borrowers supported by audited statements of
net worth Indicating total net worth of at least U.S.S
7 million and undertakings by all borrowers not to transfer
assets out of their ownership or control without lender's
approval.
N«4HaiiMd^Muni i«i« gut.*.- a < m* mm.**
T
IS to be paid by borrowers to '-lenders on acceptance
of this commitment and borrowers to pay all legal
stamp duties, taxes and any other disbursements in
connection with this borrowing.
Please confirm your acceptance of this facility and the terms and
conditions hereof by signing and returning the copy of this l e t t e r . Thereafter
on receipt of executed promissory notes and satisfactory audited financial
statements we shall forward the funds to your Bankers, Lloyds.Bank, San
Diego (attention: Mr. Thomas Anderson).
Me confirm that we will consider making a further loan of U.S.S
450,000 on similar terms in about two or three months time.
Yours faithfully,
for GUINNESS + MAHON LIMITED.
Pat O'Owyer,
Banking Manager.
B. J . Hcloughlln,
Manager.
•^•Sv*
'»' t
G + M G U I N N E S S + M A H O N LTD
TINKERS 17 CoStga OnmPMm 2 PD. 5BAT«i: 718844 (17 Un«J
Our Ref: PO»D/SC ' 24th January, 1984.
Z0^^. Mr. Carlos D. Malamud,

;'",) L C. Malamud & Sons,
4990, Mission Boulevard,
Suite 2,
Saa Diego,
CALFORN1A 92109-2095
Dear Mr. Malamud,

Thank you for your letter of the Uth January, 1984.
It would seem that certain confusion has arisen In relation to your
accounts consequently therefore I Drill attempt to explain the position to
you In detail. You will recall that originally we opened two loan accounts
In our books far sums of LLS.$550,000 and U.S. $450,000.00. The loans were
increased by a sum of U.S.$20,000 representing funds transferred as per my
. telex to you dated 7th January, 1983.
On the 31st March, 1983, the Interest rate applicable to the loan
was reviewed subject to agreement with Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust Ltd.
It was decided to charge interest on the loan at 24% over the cost of one
year's U.S.$ Deposits i.e. 12 5/8% fixed for a period of one year. On the
8th June, 1983 we notified you by telex that Interest of U.S.$17,552.26 and
U.S.$14,990.20 would become payable as at 30th June, 1983 in respect of loans
of U.S.$550,000 and U.S. $470,000.00. A sum of U.S.$52,551.46 was subsequently
received.
Following further discussions with Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust,
it was agreed to amalgamate the loans making a total sum of U.S.S1,020,000
outstanding. At the same time it was agreed to extend the loan for a period
of one year and maintain the interest rate at 12 5/8% for the year.
Consequently therefore Interest is accruing due on the account,
however such interest will not be debited to the account until 30th June,
1984. In the meantime any funds received from you have been credited to
the account.
•Finally the following represents amounts of interest received from
In respect of the loan accounts since incepeloic-
Loan UAS 470.000.00

30.6.82 U.S.S 4,193.75
30.9.82 U.S.$ Interest debited and
3L12.82 18,400.00 received.
3L3.83 18,400.00
30.6.83 18,800.00
14,999.20
Loan UL&S55Q.00Q.00
Interest Debited Interest Received
30.4.82 - U.S419,555.54 U.S.$22,000.00
30.6.82 - U.S,$14,380.94 UA$I2,028.48
30.9.92 - U.S.$22,488.88 U.S.$2i3B6.84
31.12.82 - U.S.S22,488.89 U.S.S22,488.87
31.3.83 - U.S.J22,000.00 U.S.$22,000.00
30.6.83 - U.S.S17.552.26 UJS.S17.552.26
U.S.$U8,466.51 U.S. $118,466.45
I trust the above will be of assistance to you.
Kindest regards.
Yours sincerely,
for GUINNESS + MAHON LIMITED.
Pat O'Dwyer,
Banking Manager. »
CREOIT HEMORAHOUH ^KewiMlsNjT.
•f A P P L I C A N T t Carlos Malamud, Carman Malamud, Isaac Malamud.
3S t c/o, L C Malamud 4 Son*, 4890, Mission Boulevard,

Suite 2, Son Diego, Calirornfa 92109, IXS.A.
3SS / OCCUPATION I Clients or G.M.C.T.
T s U.S.S2S0,000.00
)SE s Investment purposes.
One year.
• IC% per eanum rixed.

KENT FEE < NIL
DOWN : Bp transfer to Croeker-National Bank, Oarard

et Klein*, La Jolle, California for account
Eagle Truw.
R
' IZY :
Promissory Note for U&SS1.000 signed by German Malamud
Promissory Nete for U&»7,000 signed by Carloa David Mslsmw
Promissory Note for U.S.$7I,000 signed by Isaac Carlos Malamuc
XGMOND HOT3S /
C.IW OF PROPOSAL I
latsmud has already loam with Guinness • Mahon Limited to the extent
r U.S.SI,020,000 end U&StSO,000. An Interact rate of l«% fixed applies
o the loan eeeounu whilst the backlog deposits earn Interest et 15%. The
bove loan was recently sanctioned la the sanies or Carloa Malamud ft Carman
Aalamud. We were to obtain a Promissory. Note signed by them Jointly.
Ve heve now been requested to advance the funds to three people Jointly
ind heve received three seperete Promissory Notes es outlined. 1 have checked
he position with G.M.C.T. end In view of the fact that .we heve got e hypothecated
leposlt of equal, emount, I consider the position satisfactory.
See over
COMMENDED BEVIEN DATE t Ut July, 1985.
.MJju—
fs, Kecoassended
7 7
IEDCT COMMITTEE
BOARD / J " "
raUTE S DATE . MfllBIE J * s
CREDIT COMMITTEE APPLICATION
Unit: G.6 M. Dublin Minute No: >'•>(. Date: 11.01.1989
XKCr .SB/RENEWAL: Credit Class: SATISFACTORY
BORROWER: CARLOS, GERMAN & AGUSTINA RUSSEX DE MALAMUD
PROPOSAL & PURPOSE OF FACILITY(S):
Further advance of US$80,000 is required as an increase to existing
facility of US$1.27 million granted ito assist .with various business
ventures.
Source of Repayment, Repayment Programme & Final Maturity: ; :
From Business profits, final maturity 37.02.1992 (Next Review 27.02.1990)
bank's Income (includingfeeturnon capitax) : ~
.'-."i #3,375 (No use of capital) Margin .5% less .25% fee
'-Security and Security Margin: ~
'rst Legal Mortgage over office buildings at Solona Beach, San Diego,
.<L.dllfornia.
Security Margin : Adequate
Other Conditions Precedent:: N/A -

Other Information:
The customer has been known to us for four years and is a valued client
of G.M.C.T.
BANK'S RiSK EXP6&tiM - Aggregate ^ i n c l u s i v e of t h i s sal> to:

Borrower/ffiKCworr SfBtiGtifK
Committed: IR£924,657 US$1.35m #1.46
r lance; IR&869,863 US$1.27m # 1.46
L-antry Risk:
Primary Risk: Limit:. - N/A - Country of Primary Risk: U.S.A.
Commt: Secondary Risk: CAYMAN
Drawn: Domicile: U.S.A.
Sector Risk:
Sector: Limit: - N/A/ - GM Business Sector: PERSONAL
Commt: CBofI Business Sector: PERSONAL
Drawn: Risk Asset Weighting: - N/A -
I n t r o d u c e d by: G^M.C.T^ Recommended by: CHRIS WAITE
Decision: ' '
Â A •
Credit i t t e e chairman
—(^/"Minute No: fc-gt. Minute No:
Dublin Board Date: GMSCo. Date:

fcf*.
Appendix XV (86) Mr Joseph Malone
Joseph Malone.
a) Transcript of evidence of Mr Joseph Malone dated 12 May 2000.
b) Investment Agency Account - 1988.
c) Letter of 3 October 1988 - Annsbacher Limited to Joseph Malone.
d) Balance Sheet of Investment Agency Account as at 31 May 1993 -

Sterling.
e) Balance Sheet of Investment Agency Account as at 31 May 1993 - US

Dollars.
f) Balance Sheet of Investment Agency Account as at 31 May 1993 - DMK.
g) Balance Sheet of Investment Agency Account as at 31 May 1993 -

Sterling.
h) Balance Sheet of Investment Agency Account as at 31 March 1991 —

Sterling.
i) Balance Sheet of Malone Agency Account as at 31 March 1993 - US

Dollars.
j) Balance Sheet of Malone Agency Account as at 30 June 1990 - Sterling,
k) Letter of 17 November 1986 - JD Traynor to GMCT.
1) Letter of 26 July 1990 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and Mahon.
m) Letter of 1 August 1990 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and Mahon.
n) Letter of 1 March 1991 - Ansbacher Limited to IIB.
o) Letter of 11 March 1991 - Ansbacher Limited to IIB.
p) Letter of 23 May 1991 - JD Traynor to Joesph Malone.
q) Letter of 3 July 1991 - JD Traynor to IIB.

Letter of 28 September 1992 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and
Mahon.
Malone Agency Account as at 30 June 1990.

PRIVATE EXAMINATION OF MR. JOSEPH MALONE
UNDER OATH
ON FRIDAY 12TH MAY 2000
I hereby certify the
following to be a true and
accurate transcript of my
shorthand notes in the
above named interview.
Stenographer
PRESENT
The Inspectors: MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO
MS. MACKEY BL
Solicitor to the Inspectors MS. M. CUMMINS
Interviewee: MR. JOSEPH MALONE
Represented by: MR. PEARSE MEHIGAN & CO
PEARSE MEHIGAN & CO
84 UPPER GEORGE'S STREET
DUN LAOGHAIRE
COUNTY DUBLIN
INDEX
WITNESS EXAMINATION
MR. J. MALONE MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO

1 THE EXAMINATION COMMENCED, AS FOLLOWS, ON FRIDAY,
2 12TH MAY 2000:
4 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Malone, we will start
5 our interview then. I am
6 Declan Costello and on my right is Ms. Mackey. We
7 have been as you know appointed by The High Court to
8 investigate these matters that are set out in the
9 Order we sent you.
10
11 I should explain at the outset Mr. Malone that this
12 is not a Court hearing and it is not a Tribunal
13 hearing. It is an investigation.
14
15 If during the course of the questions that we ask
16 you you wish to obtain the advice of your solicitor
17 please tell us and we will stop asking you the
18 questions.
19
20 Similarly, if Mr. Mehigan thinks that he wants to
21 give you advice about any questions he can indicate
22 so to us and we will stop asking the questions.
23 MR. MALONE: Thank you.
24 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Malone, the
25 evidence is taken under
26 oath and I will ask Ms. Cummins, our solicitor, to
27 administer the oath to you.
28 MS. CUMMINS: Judge, I think
29 Mr. Mehigan wants to
4
1 mention something.
2 MR. MEHIGAN: If I may before he goes
3 under oath.
4 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes.
5 MR. MEHIGAN: Just to bring some matters
6 to the attention of the
7 Inspectorate.
9 MR. MEHIGAN: That we have come upon in
10 the recent days and,
11 indeed, recent weeks.
13 MR. MEHIGAN: Just to add to and
14 elaborate on matters that
15 have been raised in Mr. Malone's statement. I have
16 discussed them with Ms. Cummins before we sat but I
17 do believe they are relevant. I would like to just
18 introduce them and explain their origins.
19
20 If you refer to the first part of the second page of
21 our statement Mr. Malone mentions how in 1992
22 he borrowed a sum of $300,000 from Irish
23 Intercontinental Bank on a back to back basis and he
24 says in his statement:
25 "Unfortunately, despite a thorough

search of my papers I do not appear to
26 have any documents relating to that
loan."
27
28
29 Mr. Malone has, since making that statement, been
5
1 back to his home in the US and went through his
2 private papers in his home and has managed to come
3 up with some, not necessarily all, the documentation
4 in relation to those loans or debts and I have
5 handed in copies. There is a letter from the
6 Bank of Ireland dated the 6th January 1992, which
7 more or less accounts for those payments. The total
8 is not quite $300,000 but it is as close I think as
9 makes no odds.
10
11 He has some files as well that I have shown
12 Ms. Cummins, which I will hand in if you like to
13 have a look at them. They are the original files
14 (INDICATING). They relate to, as I say, personal
15 loans and things and that is what the US$300,000 was
16 used for, to discharge those debts and payments.
17
18
19 In an earlier part of the statement, and this is all
20 part of Mr. Malone's efforts to try and come up with
21 further documentation, he said:
22 "I never withdrew funds by cash or

cheque from Guinness & Mahon Ireland
23 Limited."
24
26 MR. MEHIGAN: I think that needs to be
27 amended because while
28 technically or factually it may be correct, he never
29 received cash from Guinness & Mahon Ireland Limited
6
1 nor did he receive a cheque from Guinness & Mahon
2 Ireland Limited. There is a letter, included in the
3 booklet of documentation that we have handed in,
4 dated 23rd May 1991. It is from J. D. Traynor to
5 Joe Malone and it details a number of payments,
6 US dollar payments. One is US$60,000 transfer to
7 O'Dwyer Bernstien. The second was an US$80,000
8 transfer to Coolidge Bank & Trust Company, which was
9 a account of Mr. Malone. Then there was a transfer
10 to AIB in sterling representing a total of
11 IR£4 0, 000.
12
13 It transpires that those monies were paid to
14 Mr. Malone through a bank operated by Des Traynor in
15 the US and the bank was Hanover Trust Manufacturers.
16 We do not have the cheques I do believe but I am
17 just saying that now because those three payments
18 were payments to Mr. Malone on foot of monies
19 deposited in the Cayman Islands.
20 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: We will have to examine
21 all these documents.
22 MR. MEHIGAN: Yes.
23 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Malone can explain
24 on oath to us what these
25 documents are.
26 MR. MEHIGAN: That is fine.
27 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: And we may have to recall
28 Mr. Malone later but at
29 the moment we will just note that you have got
7
1 further documents.
2 MR. MEHIGAN: That is fine.
4 MR. MEHIGAN: I just put it on record
5 that those payments -- it
6 may appear, as I said later, that the statement is
7 factually incorrect and I just wanted to correct it
8 now. Finally...(INTERJECTION).
9 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I am sorry, this letter of
10 the 23rd May 1991, we
11 already have that.
12 MR. MEHIGAN: You have that letter.
14 MR. MEHIGAN: I understand that but
15 what I am saying is I am
16 linking that letter to Mr. Malone's statement or
17 the part of his statement where he says he
18 never withdrew funds by cash or cheque from
19 Guinness & Mahon Ireland Limited. In fact it was
20 money that was transferred to him through another
21 bank account operated by Mr. Traynor in the US.
23 MR. MEHIGAN: On foot
24 of...(INTERJECTION).
26 MR. MEHIGAN: It amounted to the same
27 thing, I think, is what I
28 am saying. Lastly, there are two other payments
29 again at the bottom of the first page where he
8
1 describes how his relationship with Guinness & Mahon
2 ended, and how he duly closed his account and used
3 the funds he held at the time to pay off loans. He
4 has had no further dealings with the bank since
5 then.
7 Again, recent enquiries have unearthed documents
8 which have not been, or are not, before you but they
9 are now and I have furnished copies to Ms. Cummins.
10 Again, I will tender the original (Same Handed).
11 There a number of payments, totalling US$155,000,
12 which was the balance of money at the time in his
13 account in the Cayman Islands when he closed the
14 account. They were used to discharge again certain
15 debts and liabilities in America.
16
17 However, again the reason I am introducing this is
18 that the balance after the US$155,000, left a
19 balance of IR£15,000 in the account and that was
20 transferred to his account in the Allied Irish Bank,
21 Foster Place by cheque dated 9th May 1995.
22 MS. MACKEY: To AIB?
23 MR. MEHIGAN: To AIB, Foster Place.
24 MS. MACKEY: In 19?
25 MR. MEHIGAN: 1995, the 9th May 1995.
26 The payments, as I said,
27 clearing his account were all May 1995. Again, I am
28 just linking back that to the part of his statement
29 where he said he never withdrew cash or cheque. In
9
1 fact he did receive a payment from The Irish
2 Intercontinental Bank in the sum of £15,000, which
3 was the balance of the monies.
4 MS. MACKEY: Yes.
5 MR. MEHIGAN: And, finally, and this
6 again has only come to our
7 attention again as a result of his secretary trying
8 to go through all his papers, there is a payment
9 here which went into the same account in the AIB,
10 dated 26th August 1993, and again from The Irish
11 Intercontinental Bank in the sum of IR£8,000.
12
13 I am only introducing these and putting them on the
14 record because they have only now, as a result of
15 his various enquiries though his accounts and papers
16 etc, both in New York and back here, been upturned
17 in the recent weeks and as recently as yesterday.
18 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Very well Mr. Mehigan.
19 Thank you. Ms. Cummins,
20 if you could administer the oath then.
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
10
1 MR. JOSEPH MALONE, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED
2 AS FOLLOWS BY MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO:
4 1 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Malone, could you just

5 briefly outline your
6 career, your business career, and then we can come
7 to deal with your association with "Ansbacher"?
8 A. Of course. Of course, Judge. In 1951 I joined
9 Ryans Car Hire. Six or seven months later I became
10 Manager of Ryans Car Hire. At that time we had
11 twelve cars and I worked with Dermot Ryan as his
12 General Manager, and subsequently as his Managing
13 Director, from 1951 until 1956/57.
14
15 Then I left to start, and I started, Joe Malone
16 Self Drive Limited, which was my own company, in
17 May 1957, which I ran for about six/seven years.
18 Then I sold it to -- during those six or seven years
19 we built up a fleet of about 600 cars with Depots in
20 Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Shannon -- Dublin, Cork,
21 Belfast and Shannon. We had 200 leased cars also
22 and about twenty chauffeur driven cars.
23
24 I sold that company to the Kenny Motor Group in
25 England in 1964 and then worked with them. There
26 was a gentleman's agreement that I would stay for
27 three years and after two and a half years I told
28 them I didn't want to stay any longer.
29
11
1 Then I left them and I was then Chairman of the
2 Rehabilation Board and I worked there for about
3 three months, while I was deciding what I might do.
5 I was approached by, the then Marketing Director of
6 Bord Failte, Michael Whelan, and invited to become
7 General Manager North America for The Irish Tourist
8 Board. After a month or two I accepted this
9 position, which I took up in early 1967 and I became
10 -- I was there until 1976, late 76. I think
11 October 1976 I became Director General of
12 Bord Failte.
13
14 Then I left Bord Failte in 1983 and worked with
15 Smurfits as Executive Vice President Marketing for a
16 year.
17
18 Then I joined General Automotive Corporation, Ann
19 Arbor, Michigan, for a five year contract and I
20 worked there from 1983 until 1988. Then resident
21 part of the time in New York. I think it was the
22 first year and then moving to Ann Arbor, Michigan
23 for the last four years.
24
25 Then I took up a position as President of the
26 Saulders Hotel Group, which was the Boston Port
27 Plaza Hotel & Towers, an 1,100 bedroom hotel, where
28 I worked for five years but unfortunately because I
29 contracted prostate cancer I had to resign my
12
1 position. Since 1992, late 1992, I really have
2 done very little as an executive.
4 In 1990 I had a company called International Focus
5 Consultants in New York, which I think I commenced
6 around, approximately around, 1993 and I did some
7 consultancy work.
Q
O
9 Then in 1995 together with Cathal Mullen, who was
10 the former Chief Executive of Aer Lingus, we formed
11 a company called Malone Car Rental and we started
12 operations on 1st May 1995. Subsequently we sold
13 that around the end of 1999 to The Carey Motor Group
14 in Cork and that is my career, Judge.
15 2 Q. Yes. Just for clarification, you were in
16 Bord Failte as General Manager North America?
17 A. Yes .
18 3 Q. Then you came back to Ireland, did you, as
19 Director General of Bord Failte?
20 A. Yes .
21 4 Q. That was in 1976?
22 A. Yes .
23 5 Q. How long were you Director General of Bord Failte?
24 A. Until 1982. I was appointed by the then Government
25 under Liam Cosgrave.
26 6 Q. In 1982 then you ceased being Director General, did
27 you?
28 A. That is right, yes, late 1992.
29 7 Q. And then?
1 A. Or 1982.
2 8 Q. Then you moved into The Smurfit Company?
3 A. Yes.
4 9 Q. How long were you with The Smurfit Company?
5 A. One year.
6 10 Q. One year. So, that got you to 1983, is that right?
7 A. Yes, and then I joined General Automotive
8 Corporation, Ann Arbor, Michigan.
9 11 Q. In Michigan?
10 A. Yes.
11 12 Q. You would have resided in Ireland up to that date,
12 is that right?
13 A. Up t o - - yes, up to 19 — yes.
14 13 Q. Then you moved to Michigan?
15 A. That is right. I moved to New York first, Judge.
16 14 Q. Yes?
17 A. Because when they originally hired me it was really
18 to be their Vice President for The Eastern
19 Seaboardyes.
20 A. But they fell out with the Massachusetts and the
21 New York Authority. So, then I had to move to Ann
22 Arbor, Michigan.
23 15 Q. You were effectively then in the United States then?
24 A. That is right.
25 16 Q. In these different positions you have indicated?
26 A. Yes.
27 17 Q. And the Malone Car Rental in 1959, this was operated
28 here in Ireland, was it?
29 A. That is right, yes.
14
1 18 Q. Did you come back to live in Ireland then?
2 A. I came back to Ireland in 1997.
3 19 Q. Yes?
4 A. Actually the background to that is the company ran
5 into a lot of financial difficulties because we lost
6 two Managing Directors within the course of two
7 years, both died of brain haemorrhages.
8 20 Q. Yes?
9 A. And the company ran into financial difficulties and
10 as it had my name I tried to come back to help it
11 out.
12 21 Q. Yes?
13 A. Now, I wasn't working. I mean I was there trying to
14 guide it. I didn't actually work in an executive
15 capacity in it.
16 22 Q. Then...(INTERJECTION)?
17 A. But then we resolved that.
18 23 Q. Yes. Then Mr. Malone will you come now to deal with
19 your relationship with Mr. Traynor and with the
20 companies that he was associated with? When did you
21 first meet Mr. Traynor?
22 A. Around 1963, early 1964.
23 24 Q. Yes?
24 A. When I was negotiating with The Kenny Motor Group to
25 sell my company on the introduction by Shell & BP.
26 Shell & BP indicated to me that they wanted
27 The Kenny Motor Group to take over the franchise for
28 the sale of petroleum, oil products
29 on...(INTERJECTION).
1 25 Q. We need not go into too much detail?
2 A. Well, Okay. Okay, yes.
3 26 Q. It is just about how...(INTERJECTION)?
4 A. That is how. Well, what happened...(INTERJECTION).
5 27 Q. How you met Mr. Traynor?
6 A. Well, what happened was Mr. Traynor owned
7 Dublin Petroleum.
8 28 Q. Yes?
9 A. And they wanted to get control of it.
10 29 Q. Yes?
11 A. And they asked me to try and buy out Dublin
12 Petroleum from Mr. Lanigan, yes.
13 A. I had a meeting with Mr. Lanigan and Des Traynor
14 accompanied him to the meeting as his financial
15 advisor.
16 30 Q. Anyway you got to know Mr. Traynor then?
17 A. Yes.
18 31 Q. I want you now to come along to deal with the
19 relationship that developed, the business
20 relationship that developed, between you and
21 Mr. Traynor. When was that first suggested by
22 Mr. Traynor?
23 A. As far as I can recollect it was some time in the
24 early 1970's.
25 32 Q. Yes?
26 A. In New York.
27 33 Q. In New York?
28 A. Yes.
29 34 Q. It was when you were still in Bord Failte?
16
1 A. I was still in Bord Failte.
2 35 Q. Alright. What was the relationship and just tell me
3 as such as you can remember? When it first started
4 what was it?
5 A. Well, Ireland was much smaller, you know, and there
6 weren't as many people travelling to the States then
7 as now and it was a big deal. I met him at a
8 function here in Dublin when I was back from Bord
9 Failte. He said that he was going to the States and
10 could I suggest a hotel he might stay at and I said,
11 "Of course." I said, "I will make arrangements for
12 you if you like." So, I made arrangements and he
13 and his wife invited my wife and myself to meet with
14 him and that was really the beginning of, you might
15 say in the broadest sense, a personal relationship.
16 36 Q. Yes?
17 A. Prior to that it was an acquaintance relationship.
18 37 Q. Yes?
19 A. So, I met with him. I arranged his hotel for him
20 and met him in New York.
21 38 Q. When was that?
22 A. That was around 1992 — sorry 1972/73.
23 39 Q. Yes. If we could just deal with the business
24 relationship?
25 A. Of course. Well, at that time I was asking him
26 about what was happening in Ireland, I had some
27 property and things in Ireland, and I just was
28 asking his advice.
29 40 Q. Yes?
17
1 A. And he called me the following day and he said,
2 "Joe," he would like to meet me for breakfast and I
3 met with him I think a day later. He said, "You
4 know, if you really are interested in having someone
5 look after your interests in Ireland," he said, "I
6 would be very pleased to do it." This was on a very
7 personal basis.
8 41 Q. Yes?
9 A. And I said, "That would be great," and that was the
10 beginning of our relationship.
11 42 Q. Yes. Just give me a little more detail then. What
12 was it? What was the interest he was looking after
13 for you?
14 A. Well, then I had stocks and shares in Ireland.
15 43 Q. Yes?
16 A. And he said that he would look after them for me.
17 44 Q. Yes?
18 A. Up to then all of my banking had been with
19 Provincial Bank of Ireland in Upper O'Connell
20 Street, which is now Allied Irish Banks.
21 45 Q. Yes?
22 A. But he said that he would open an account for me
23 with Guinness & Mahon and that he would open, as I
24 was non-resident in Ireland, a non-resident account
25 for me and that was the beginning of the
26 relationship.
27 46 Q. Yes?
28 A. And he began to look after my interests.
29 47 Q. Yes. What was this non-resident account? Were you
18
1 going to use this as a banking deposit account?
2 Were you going to use this as a savings account?
3 A. Sorry, for savings?
4 48 Q. Savings ?
5 A. A savings account, no. Well, my recollection at the
6 time was that he was just going to use this account
7 to trade the shares for me, to buy and sell shares.
8 49 Q. To use the shares?
9 A. Yes .
10 50 Q. It was not an account that you were going to put
11 money into and cash cheques on and that?
12 A. Not at that time, no. Not at that time, no.
13 51 Q. Did he mention putting this into the Cayman Islands
14 at this time?
15 A. Not at that time, no.
16 52 Q. When was the Cayman Islands first mentioned?
17 A. It is very hard to remember. It would be probably
18 around 1975/76. He just said that he was -- it
19 would be appropriate as I was a non-resident that he
20 -- it was around 1975, that he would -- was it
21 alright with me if he opened an account for me in
22 the Cayman Islands.
23 53 Q. What does "appropriate as non-resident" mean? Was
24 he talking about the tax position?
25 A. I think so, yes. Yes, Sir.
26 54 Q. Tell me about that?
27 A. I was resident in the United States and -- yes, he
28 had transferred money for me. He had applied to The
29 Central Bank because I had to get money in, to buy a
19
1 house in the States, 1967/68 and I got that myself
2 through Provincial Bank. Then I needed some more
3 money in 1974/75, I think around that time, and I
4 asked him and he said he would arrange it for me.
5 Then he came back and said, "There is no problem.
6 You are a non-resident," that he had been in touch
7 with The Central Bank and that was that.
8 55 Q. However, Mr. Malone that is an exchange control
9 problem?
10 A. Yes .
11 56 Q. I was asking you about the income tax. What did
12 he tell you about the income tax?
13 A. He didn't say anything at that time about the
14 income tax.
15 57 Q. When did he talk to you about the income tax then, a
16 liability for tax?
17 A. It didn't arise for years.
18 58 Q. It did not arise?
19 A. For years, your Honour.
20 59 Q. Right. You still have not told me how it came about
21 that he was suggesting the Cayman Islands?
22 A. Well, he just said was it all right with me if he
23 opened an account in the Cayman Islands and that he
24 transacted my business in the Cayman Islands. He
25 said that Guinness & Mahon had a branch in the
26 Cayman Islands and that he was trying to build up
27 his client portfolio, and would I allow him to do
28 that.
29 60 Q. Yes?
1 A. And I said yes.
2 61 Q. From then on you knew there was money being
3 deposited?
4 A. Yes, I did, yes.
5 62 Q. In the Cayman Islands?
6 A. That is right.
7 63 Q. When was that? About 1975/76 you think?
8 A. Very little because I didn't have that much money
9 then.
10 64 Q. No. However, I just want to get the dates?
11 A. Yes, around that time. Around then.
12 65 Q. Yes?
13 A. Around that time as far as I can recollect.
14 66 Q. Thereafter then you would transfer money to him,
15 would you, in Dublin and he would transfer to Cayman
16 or would you put it directly into Cayman Islands?
17 A. I never did it directly.
18 67 Q. Yes?
19 A. I mean I would transfer it from New York to him
20 or...(INTERJECTION).
21 68 Q. Yes?
22 A. Yes. I...(INTERJECTION).
23 69 Q. Did you know that this was a subsidiary of
24 Guinness & Mahon?
25 A. I did, yes, because he said it was.
26 70 Q. He was Chairman?
27 A. He had indicated that to me. He may not have been
28 Chairman at that time your Honour. I mean my
29 recollection is that he wasn't Chairman of
21
1 Guinness & Mahon at the time that he did it.
2 71 Q. I see?
3 A. I know he was Joint Managing Director with Maurice
4 0'Kelly here at the time.
5 72 Q. Yes?
6 A. Of Dublin.
7 73 Q. Yes?
8 A. But it was subsequent to that I understood that he
9 became Chairman.
10 74 Q. Right. Did you then as time went on, from 1975/76,
11 then arrange to transfer funds to Mr. Traynor, which
12 would be then sent on by him?
13 A. Yes.
14 75 Q. To your deposit account?
15 A. Yes, your Honour, yes.
16 76 Q. You would have been building up over the years
17 a deposit account in the Cayman Islands?
18 A. Yes.
19 77 Q. Yes?
20 A. It was not really until 1985/86 because the amount
21 of money I was earning in Bord Failte.
22 78 Q. Yes?
23 A. My earnings allow me to do it, your Honour.
24 79 Q. Yes?
25 A. I mean for the record I was earning £12,000, a year
26 of which I paid £5,000 in tax, when I worked with
27 Bord Failte. That left me £7,000. I had two
28 daughters in college in the United States that was
29 costing me $6,000 each. So, I really was living
22
1 on...(INTERJECTION).
2 80 Q. You just had you salary from Bord Failte?
3 A. That is all, that is all.
4 81 Q. You were paying tax on that in the United States?
5 A. No, sorry.
6 82 Q. No?
7 A. I am talking about 1976, late 1976, when I came back
8 to Ireland.
9 83 Q. I see. I understand?
10 A. I had a good salary.
11 84 Q. Yes?
12 A. In the Unites States your Honour.
13 85 Q. I see. Sorry, I misunderstood you?
14 A. Sorry, my apologies.
15 86 Q. No, it was my fault. What you are telling me is
16 that when you came back from the United States you
17 were Director General on £12,000 a year?
19 87 Q. You told me what your salary was?
20 A. Yes.
21 88 Q. And you were paying tax during this period?
23 89 Q. Yes. In relation to the stocks and shares that
24 Mr. Traynor said he was going to look for you: Just
25 tell me about what the arrangement was in relation
26 to those?
27 A. Well, he was trading them. I mean he would buy them
28 and sell them. I had losses and profits because
29 Atlantic Resources and a number of them didn't do
23
1 well.
2 90 Q. Yes?
3 A. And at that time the share market wasn't as buoyant
4 as it is now.
5 91 Q. I just want to know the technical arrangements that
6 were made?
7 A. Yes.
8 92 Q. Were these shares in your name for example?
9 A. They were all in my name, yes.
10 93 Q. They were all registered in your name?
11 A. No, maybe -- no, sorry, your Honour, no. He then
12 told me that he was putting them in an account
13 called -- wait until I see. It is -- sorry -- there
14 was — excuse my memory.
15 94 Q. Yes?
16 A. But there was a name for it. It was like -- it was
17 a numbered account. Mars Nominee.
18 95 Q. Yes?
19 A. Mars Nominee account and I asked him, "Why
20 Mars Nominee," and he said that most of the shares
21 that he was handling on behalf of Irish residents
22 and foreign residents he had in numbered accounts,
23 Mars Nominee.
24 96 Q. The shares that he purchased on his behalf were not
25 registered in your name?
26 A. Yes.
27 97 Q. However, registered in the name of Mars Nominee?
28 A. That is my understanding.
29 98 Q. When they were sold then Mars Nominee would get
24
1 whatever...(INTERJECTION)?
2 A. That is right.
3 99 Q. If there was a profit?
4 A. Yes.
5 100 Q. And that would be transferred then to your account,
6 is that what you thought?
7 A. Yes, that is correct.
8 101 Q. And...(INTERJECTION)?
9 A. In Guinness & Mahon account.
10 102 Q. In Guinness & Mahon in Dublin?
11 A. Yes.
12 103 Q. Then when you opened the account in Guinness Mahon
13 Cayman Trust in the Cayman Islands, was the money
14 then transferred there?
15 A. I didn't realise it was Cayman Trust. I thought it
16 was just Guinness & Mahon Bank.
17 104 Q. The name of the company?
18 A. Sorry.
19 105 Q. It is the name of the company?
20 A. I see, was Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust.
21 106 Q. Yes?
22 A. I wasn't aware of that your Honour, yes.
23 107 Q. Am I right in understanding that the money was then
24 transferred?
25 A. Yes.
26 108 Q. To Cayman?
27 A. Yes.
28 109 Q. If you made a profit on it?
29 A. Yes, yes. Yes, your Honour, but also I had a
25
1 resident account. I had a resident account in
2 the years I was back here in Ireland with
3 Guinness & Mahon in Dublin for other monies that
4 he was handling on my behalf.
5 110 Q. What were these then Mr. Malone? What were these
6 monies ?
7 A. I honestly can't remember your Honour.
8 111 Q. Yes?
9 A. I am not avoiding but...(INTERJECTION).
10 112 Q. However, when you say he was handling it, what was
11 he doing with them? Was he investing them?
12 A. No, no. This was really like -- it was like a -- it
13 was what you call it? It was a non interest bearing
14 account.
15 113 Q. Well...(INTERJECTION)?
16 A. For instance I had occasion in 19 -- this might help
17 you if I am rambling on just tell me your Honour.
18 In 1981 or 1982 I got a call from Allied Irish Banks
19 in Dublin to tell me that I was in deliquency, that
20 I was in £41,000 — it was £41,000 or £43,000 and
21 they gave me three days to repay it. I called
22 Des Traynor and I said, "Des, look I have this," and
23 he said, "What is your bank? What is your number?"
24 He said he would transfer it that day from a
25 resident account and I don't know how he handled it
26 without any -- I didn't have any backup or
27 documentation or anything, the £41,000 or £43,000 to
28 Allied Irish Banks.
29 114 Q. So...(INTERJECTION)?
1 A. So, that is what it was used for. It was like a —
2 yes.
3 115 Q. So you had this facility then by which Mr. Traynor
4 was able to make a payment on your behalf?
5 A. That is right.
6 116 Q. Yes?
7 A. It was a checking account.
8 117 Q. Sorry?
9 A. A checking account.
10 118 Q. A checking account?
11 A. Yes.
12 119 Q. These were funds that you had transferred to him.
13 It was not a loan. It was your money that he was
14 paying to AIB?
15 A. No, my understanding at the time was that that had
16 nothing to do with the money that he had on my
17 behalf in Cayman Islands or non-resident accounts,
18 that he would just loan me that money on it.
19 120 Q. He lent it to you, did he?
20 A. Yes.
21 121 Q. A loan?
22 A. Yes. He just said — and I had another occasion
23 your Honour. One of my family got into severe
24 difficulty in Dallas in Texas and I went out to try
25 and get bail and I was told that I had to produce
26 $75,000 bail and I didn't know who to contact. So,
27 I called Des in Dublin and within two hours he
28 transferred $75,000, not from my money, from
29 Guinness & Mahon in Dublin.

1 122 Q. Yes?
2 A. To an account which allowed me to get one of my
3 family out of difficulty.
4 123 Q. Yes. However, then presumably you had to pay it
5 back?
6 A. Yes, I did. Yes, of course.
7 124 Q. Very well?
8 A. Yes.
9 125 Q. Some of the documentation that you have given us
10 Mr. Malone shows that the bank in Cayman held
11 shares. Were these in addition to the Mars Nominee
12 shares?
13 A. I honestly don't know. I really don't know your
14 Honour.
15 126 Q. You see...(INTERJECTION)?
16 A. Yes, yes.
17 127 Q. As I understand it Mr. Traynor was investing on your
18 behalf in stocks and shares on the market, and was
19 registering the shares in Mars Nominee, in the name
20 of Mars Nominee?
21 A. Yes.
22 128 Q. However, we have records that you have given us
23 showing The Cayman Bank?
24 A. Yes.
25 129 Q. Apparently registered shares?
26 A. Yes.
27 130 Q. Holding share?
29 131 Q. In your account?
28
1 A. Yes.
2 132 Q. Were these in addition to the Mars Nominee shares?
3 A. Well, I may be wrong but my understanding was at the
4 time, you know, when he took my account off-shore.
5 133 Q. Yes?
6 A. And that that handled the Mars Nominee as well your
7 Honour.
8 134 Q. I see?
9 A. That was my understanding.
10 135 Q. Yes?
11 A. But I did. To answer your question, I am not
12 avoiding your question, I did add other money to it
13 in addition to the Mars Nominee and whether it went
14 into Mars Nominees or directly into -- you know,
15 whether Cayman -- Mars Nominees was, what would you
16 say, controlled by Cayman or whether it was just
17 transferred to Cayman, I am not sure.
18 136 Q. You see we have the accounts that you have given us.
19 It was called the Investment Agency Account?
20 A. Yes.
21 137 Q. Which shows Arran Energy Shares?
23 138 Q. Looking at the account (Exhibit 1)?
24 A. Yes.
25 139 Q. In 1988 it shows Arran Energy Shares, it shows AIB
26 Shares, it shows CRH Shares, it shows Bank of
27 Ireland Shares?
28 A. Yes.
29 140 Q. 165,000?
29
1 A. Yes .
2 141 Q. 165,000 worth of shares?
3 A. Yes .
4 142 Q. What I want your assistance on Mr. Malone was
5 whether or not, in addition to this holding of
6 shares in this account, you had in addition other
7 shares in Mars Nominees during this period or was
8 everything transferred?
9 A. I thought everything was transferred.
10 143 Q. Everything was transferred?
11 A. My understanding is that everything was transferred.
12 144 Q. Yes
13 MR. MEHIGAN: Perhaps, Judge, if I could
14 just refer to the
15 document?
16 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: No. It is alright. I
17 will manage alright?
18 145 Q. MR. MEHIGAN: Okay?
19 A. Thank you your Honour.
20 146 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Everything had been
21 transferred to the
22 Cayman Islands from about the time that you would
23 have opened the account in the Cayman Islands, or
24 the deposit. That would have been in 1975/76?
25 A. Well, what I would have had in 1975/76 would have
26 been transferred, yes, your Honour.
27 147 Q. Yes?
28 A. And then as I came -- well, as I began to earn more
29 income and get more income, when I moved to the
30
1 States in 1985, 1984/85, from then onwards, I used
2 that. I am sorry, I transferred money to that
3 account.
4 148 Q. Yes?
5 A. And bought shares.
6 149 Q. Yes. You also had, as appears in the accounts,
7 money on deposit in the bank and you had shares?
8 A. Yes.
9 150 Q. Is that it?
10 A. Yes.
11 151 Q. The Bank...(INTERJECTION)?
12 A. In Cayman.
13 152 Q. In Cayman. It states, in the documents that you
14 have given us, that this is the Investment Agency
15 Account. Do you know were the shares held by a
16 company a subsidiary of the bank in Cayman or were
17 the shares held in the name of the company itself?
18 A. My understanding is that they were held in the name
19 of the company, Guinness Mahon Cayman Islands.
20 153 Q. Guinness Mahon?
21 A. Yes.
22 154 Q. You understood that?
23 A. That is my understanding, yes.
24 155 Q. Did you come across or were you associated in any
25 way with a company called Hexagon Securities?
26 A. No.
27 156 Q. You were not?
28 A. No, your Honour.
29 157 Q. And as far as you...(INTERJECTION)?
31
1 A. Is it all right to call you your Honour, is it?
2 158 Q. It does not matter?
3 A. Because...(INTERJECTION).
4 159 Q. It does not matter at all?
5 A. That is Okay. Right, Judge.
6 160 Q. It does not matter at all?
7 A. Okay. It comes easier.
8 161 Q. It does not matter?
9 A. That is Okay. That is all right, Judge.
10 162 Q. It does not matter any way. We have had evidence of
11 a number of companies that have been established in
12 the Cayman Islands, subsidiaries of Guinness Mahon
13 Cayman Trust Bank, whatever you want to call it.
14 However, you do not think that the shares which you
15 owned were in the name of any subsidiary of the bank
16 in Cayman. You think they were in the name of the
17 bank?
18 A. I am as sure as I can be.
19 163 Q. Yes?
20 A. I would say I am 99.9% sure it was
21 all...(INTERJECTION).
22 164 Q. Yes?
23 A. Yes.
24 165 Q. Yes. I would just like to bring you through some
25 of the documents that you gave to us. Page 136
26 please (Same Handed)?
27 A. Thank you very much.
28 166 Q. This is a letter of the 3rd October 1988 (Exhibit
29 2) ?
32
1 A. Yes.
2 167 Q.
3 "Two copies of the statements of your

investment account with us"?
4
5 A. Yes.
6 168 Q. That is from Mr. Furze?
7 A. Yes.
8 169 Q. Did you ever meet Mr. Furze?
9 A. I met Mr. Furze on two occasions.
10 170 Q. Yes?
11 A. I met him at Des Traynor's funeral.
12 171 Q. Yes?
13 A. In Dublin.
14 172 Q. Yes?
15 A. And I was in Cayman Islands with four friends from
16 Ann Arbor, Michigan. I think it was around 1988.
17 173 Q. Yes?
18 A. 1987 or 1988.
19 174 Q. Yes?
20 A. And I mentioned to Des that I was going down playing
21 golf with my wife and these friends and he said,
22 "Why don't you call into him".
23 175 Q. Yes?
24 A. "And see your bank".
25 176 Q. Yes?
26 A. Quote unquote.
27 177 Q. Very well?
28 A. And I met Mr. John Furze.
29 178 Q. Yes?
33
1 A. And I think there was man by the name of Collins
2 also there.
3 179 Q. Was that a social occasion?
4 A. Just social.
5 180 Q. Yes?
6 A. I just had a cup of coffee with him.
7 181 Q. Yes?
8 A. Well, a cup of tea.
9 182 Q. Would you just look at the next document? Would you
10 pass on the next document? It is 137, 138 and 139
11 (Same Handed) I think we will pass on all these
12 documents. The whole of that tab (Same Handed)?
13 A. Are you asking me a question in relation to this one
14 (INDICATING).
15 183 Q. Pardon?
16 A. Are you asking...(INTERJECTION).
17 184 Q. No, no.
18 A. No, you are not, no.
19 185 Q. I just want to...(INTERJECTION)?
20 A. Me to see it.
21 186 Q. Introduce you?
22 A. Okay.
23 187 Q. To the documents?
24 A. Yes.
25 188 Q. The documents then, that you have forwarded to us,
26 refer then to the different accounts. Would you
27 turn to the document, the bottom of the page is
28 numbered 139 (Exhibit 3)?
29 A. Yes.
34
1 189 Q. Just at the top of it, it is:
2 "J.N. &/OR I. MALONE."
4 It was in the name of yourself and your wife, was
5 it?
6 A. Yes, but my wife never knew anything about it your
7 Honour.
8 190 Q. Yes?
9 A. And that was in case of my demise.
10 191 Q. In case of your demise?
11 A. Yes.
12 192 Q. Yes, I see. Would you just look at that:
13 "Cash at Bank: "A/G" Call Deposit

A/c. "
14
15 Throughout these documents there is a reference to a
16 code "A/G". Did you know what that was?
18 193 Q. You did not?
19 A. I don't even know today.
20 194 Q. If we look through the documents you will see
21 reference t o the — page 142. Do you see: (Exhibit
22 4)
23
"Cash at Bank"?
24
25 A. I do, yes, I do.
26 195 Q.
27 ""A/G" Call Deposit Account."
28
29 A. Yes.
35
1 196 Q. And page 144 (Exhibit 5)?
2 A. Yes.
3 197 Q. It is a Deutsche Mark. Is that a Deutsche Mark?
4
"(Expressed in Deutsche Mark.)"
5
6 A. Yes.
7 198 Q. Do you see:
8
"Deposit Account - "A/G"."
9
10 A. I do, yes.
11 199 Q. Yes. Can you tell me what that was?
12 A. I can't your Honour. I don't know. I can tell you
13 what happened at that time.
14 200 Q. No.
15 A. About that bank because...(INTERJECTION).
16 201 Q. At the moment I am just asking you...(INTERJECTION)?
17 A. That is all right. Okay, right.
18 202 Q. About... (INTERJECTION) ?
19 A. No, I don't. I don't know. I don't know your
20 Honour.
21 203 Q. Do you see that it appears that this was a coded
22 account in "Ansbacher" and that the code "A/G" was
23 referring to your account. Did you know that?
24 A. No, I didn't your Honour.
26 A. No.
27 205 Q. If you look at page 146 (Exhibit 6)?
28 A. Yes.
29 206 Q.
36
1 "ASSETS"?
3 A. Yes.
4 207 Q.
5
""A/G" Call Deposit. "A/G" U.S.D.
6 Deposit. "A/G" DMK Deposit"
8 A. Yes.
9 208 Q. You do not what...(INTERJECTION)?
10 A. No, I don't.
11 209 Q. What does that mean?
12 A. No.
13 210 Q. Yes. The statement of accounts shows then -- the
14 documents that you have given us?
15 A. Yes.
16 211 Q. Shows the shares that the bank held on your behalf
17 and shows the deposits that you held. I think it
18 also shows the interest?
19 A. Yes.
20 212 Q. That was earned on the deposits. We will move on to
21 1997?
22 A. Okay.
23 213 Q. The 1991 accounts shows:
24
"A/G" Call Deposit"
25
26
27 A. 197 at the bottom?
28 214 Q. Page 197?
29 A. Sorry.
37
1 215 Q. Sorry, it is 167 at the bottom (Exhibit 7)?
2 A. Sorry, that is Okay. That is Okay.
3 216 Q. Page 171 refers -- it is in hand writing?
4 A. 167.
5 217 Q. Page 167?
6 A. Right, yes.
7 218 Q. And then if you turn to page 171: (Exhibit 8)
9 ""A/G" Call Deposit Account."
10
11 A. Yes.
12 219 Q. 173 (Exhibit 9)?
13 A. Yes.
14 220 Q. Throughout these accounts there is this reference to
15 what is clearly your code that refers to your
16 account, is that right?
17 A. Yes. Well, I didn't realise. It was a code just
18 referring to my account.
19 221 Q. You did not realise this?
20 A. I didn't, no, your Honour.
21 222 Q. If you turn to 184 (Exhibit 10)?
22 A. Yes.
23 223 Q. There is another code there:
24
""A/A38"
25
26 you did not...(INTERJECTION)?
27 A. No, I see it now.
28 224 Q. You did not...(INTERJECTION)?
29 A. No.
38
1 225 Q. You did not know what it meant?
3 226 Q. Yes?
4 A. May I make a comment?
5 227 Q. Yes?
6 A. Please your Honour?
7 228 Q. Please yes?
8 A. Just a lot of these statements I have never seen
9 until we got them recently on the foot of -- I think
10 it was your Order or some Order, which was supplied
11 by the Moriarty Tribunal.
12 229 Q. Yes?
13 A. I had never seen them until then, a lot of these
14 your Honour.
15 230 Q. Yes?
16 A. Now, I am not denying that I didn't get some of them
17 and they didn't have "A/G" on them but I never -- I
18 was more -- actually your Honour I was more
19 interested in the right--hand side.
20 231 Q. Yes?
21 A. Than in the details.
22 232 Q. Yes?
23 A. And the significance of the "A/G" or Mars or these
24 things didn't really...(INTERJECTION).
25 233 Q. Yes?
26 A. Yes.
27 234 Q. If you did not get accounts, these detailed
28 accounts, surely you must have got something in
29 writing from Mr. Traynor from some source as to how
39
1 things were going?
2 A. Well, at that time when I was working in the States
3 I came back to Ireland. I had a number of boards
4 that I was on the board of and I would be back to
5 Ireland once a month and on occasions I would ring
6 up and make arrangements to see Des, to come in and
7 have a cup of tea with him.
8 235 Q. Yes?
9 A. And he would just tell me how things were going.
10 236 Q. Yes. Did he produce any written document to you?
11 A. Like these?
12 237 Q. No, not like those?
13 A. Sorry.
14 238 Q. Any written document? Anything like a bank
15 statement for example?
16 A. No, no, your Honour. I didn't, no. All I got was
17 some things like this.
18 239 Q. Some things like them?
19 A. And there wouldn't be headings on them or anything.
20 He would just say, "Joe, this is for you".
21 240 Q. However, there would be no headings on them?
22 A. No headings, no.
23 241 Q. In fact all names...(INTERJECTION)?
24 A. Just.
25 242 Q. There was no name at all on the documents that he
26 would have given you?
27 A. No. It would just say: "Joseph N. Malone account."
28 243 Q. Yes?
29 A. And what the details were.
40
1 244 Q. Yes. This was your account of the funds that you
2 had given to him, which were in the Cayman Islands?
4 245 Q. Yes?
5 A. And also -- now, I did get statements though from
6 him from Guinness & Mahon in Dublin.
7 246 Q. Yes?
8 A. Which would be addressed to me.
9 247 Q. Yes?
10 A. Which would come in and tell me the Certificates of
11 Deposit, which I would return with my tax and things
12 like that your Honour.
13 248 Q. Yes. When did you get those?
14 A. They would have come, I think, once a year.
15 249 Q. Once a year?
16 A. Yes.
17 250 Q. Mr. Malone, I think we will just have a break now if
18 that is all right with you?
19 A. Of course.
20 251 Q. For a cup of coffee, for about ten minutes?
21 A. Of course your Honour.
22 252 Q. Very well.
23
24 SHORT ADJOURNMENT
25
26 253 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: We will resume Mr. Malone.
27 MR. MEHIGAN: Judge, just very briefly
28 before you resume.
29 Mr. Malone would just like to clarify one point of
41
1 his testimony.
2 254 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes, Mr. Malone?
3 A. Okay. The £41,000 or £43,000 that I got from
4 Des Traynor in relation to my problem with AIB.
5 255 Q. Yes?
6 A. To my recollection I took up -- AIB -- I mean I
7 still needed money in Ireland and AIB took a
8 mortgage out -- I think it was my first mortgage had
9 expired at the time. Now, AIB took out a second
10 mortgage, our mortgage, on my house in Abbylin,
11 Foxrock, for around £90,000 and I think that is how
12 I repaid the £41,000 to Des, to Mr. Traynor.
13 256 Q. I see. I just want to get some further
14 clarification about the vehicles that were used in
15 your investments. Would you turn to Tab 14 and if
16 you could just get all the documents. There are
17 three documents there (Same Handed)?
18 A. Thank you.
19 257 Q. Mr. Malone, these are internal documents of
20 Guinness & Mahon here in Ireland. You will see
21 the first one, at page 261 at the bottom, is from
22 "J. D. T... (Exhibit 11)"
23
24 that is Mr. Traynor,
25
"...to Investment Dept."
26
27 It is the 30th January 1987. Then he says:
28 "Could you please arrange to let

me have a list of any investments
29 you hold on behalf of Mr. Malone,
either in his name or in the name of
42
1 Executive Trust"?
3 A. Yes.
4 258 Q. Do you know what Executive Trust was?
5 A. Yes, Executive Trust was a company that I registered
6 and that I was going to operate in Ireland around
7 that time. So, that was a company of which I owned.
8 259 Q. Why did you establish a company? What was the
9 purpose of the company?
10 A. Well, actually at the time I was going to go into
11 another business and subsequent to that that is the
12 company that I used, or the name of the company, for
13 Malone Car Rental. So, Malone Car Rental is --
14 actually Executive Trust and trades as Malone Car
15 Rental.
16 260 Q. You are jumping way ahead?
18 261 Q. In 1987 there was a company in existence called
19 Executive Trust Limited?
20 A. Yes.
21 262 Q. Which is registered in Dublin?
22 A. That is right. It never traded your Honour to my
23 recollection.
24 263 Q. It did not trade but apparently it held shares?
25 A. Yes, your Honour.
26 264 Q. Do you know about that?
27 A. I don't remember recollecting it. I know now, when
28 I see it here.
29 265 Q. Would you turn to the next document, page 263
43
1 (Exhibit 12)?
2 A. Yes.
3 266 Q. This is a letter from you to Ms. Marie McKiernan?
4 A. Yes.
5 267 Q. It is 1994?
6 A. Yes.
7 268 Q. It reads:
8
"I would appreciate if you could
9 arrange to sell all shares held in my
name and in the name of Executive Trust
10 Limited, as per the attached Investment
Portfolio"?
11
12 A. Yes.
13 2 69 Q. You must have known about the company Mr. Malone?
14 A. I knew about Executive Trust your Honour but
15 I...(INTERJECTION).
16 270 Q. You said to me a moment ago that you knew nothing
17 about it until I drew your attention to it?
18 A. Sorry. Well, I didn't remember your Honour.
19 271 Q. Now that you do remember?
20 A. I do.
21 272 Q. Tell me about it?
22 A. You mean -- sorry.
23 273 Q. No. Please Mr. Malone?
24 A. No, sorry. Might I tell you that it was a company
25 that was formed, you know. It was only a shelf
26 company that I took and I formed and I was going to
27 trade with it. We never traded but I did,
28 obviously, buy shares with it your Honour.
29 274 Q. That is what I want you to tell me about?
44
1 A. That is right. That is right. Well, that is all I
2 can tell you your Honour. I am not trying to be
3 evasive but that is all I remember. I had
4 completely forgotten this your Honour. The
5 11th April 1994, that is even prior to the decision
6 to, you know, use that company your Honour for
7 Malone Car Rental.
8 275 Q. You see it looks from the documents that we have
9 that you held shares, or shares were held by this
10 company, from 1987 to 1994?
11 A. Yes .
12 276 Q. I want you to tell me why this was done? Why were
13 the shares not held in your name? Why was this
14 shelf company used?
15 A. I honestly can't tell you. I honestly can't tell
16 you, your Honour.
17 277 Q. Will you look at the next letter then?
18 A. Yes .
19 278 Q. The 3rd May 1994 (Exhibit 13)?
20 A. Yes .
21 279 Q. This is from Guinness & Mahon?
22 A. Yes .
23 280 Q. To you in the Berkeley Court Hotel?
24 A. Yes .
25 281 Q. It is referring to your account?
26 A. Yes .
27 282 Q. It gives the balance. Then account of
28 Executive Trust with the balance?
29 A. Yes .
1 283 Q. So Executive Trust had an account?
2 A. Yes. I wasn't aware of that your Honour. I am now.
3 I mean.
4 284 Q. It shows a balance?
5 A. Yes, of £2,000 and £1,500, yes.
6 285 Q.
7 "We confirm all holdings in the above

names ..."
8
9 A. Yes.
10 286 Q.
11 "...have been sold as instructed."
12
13 A. Yes.
14 287 Q. Then there were enclosed two drafts for the balance?
16 288 Q. Can you assist me in any way as to what that was?
17 What shares this company held and was it associated
18 in any way with "Ansbacher", with the "Ansbacher"
19 arrangement?
20 A. To my knowledge, no, your Honour.
21 289 Q. This was separate?
22 A. Separate.
23 290 Q. Why was that? Why were some shares held in the
24 Cayman Islands and some not?
25 A. I don't know your Honour. I don't know. I will
26 check my records your Honour. If there is anything
27 I will come back.
28 291 Q. Yes, if you would?
29 A. I will, yes.
46
1 292 Q. Because this is 1994?
2 A. Yes.
3 293 Q. And you might have had...(INTERJECTION)?
4 A. Yes.
5 294 Q. For example the Investment Portfolio might be on
6 your files?
7 A. Yes, Okay, right. I will check it your Honour.
8 295 Q. I want to ask you some questions Mr. Malone about
9 the cash backed loans. Ms. Cummins, would you turn
10 to tab 8. Would you just take the whole of tab 8
11 out, would you (Same Handed)?
12 A. Thank you.
13 296 Q. Mr. Malone, this first document, the bottom of the
14 page is numbered 109, relates to a loan of $50,000
15 in November 1986, is that right (Exhibit 14)?
16 A. That is correct.
17 297 Q. Yes. If you look at the next document, it is a
18 letter of the 17th November, from Mr. Traynor
19 (Exhibit 15)?
20 A. Yes.
21 298 Q. It says that you require a facility for twelve
22 months and GMCT will guarantee by way of
23 unconditional guarantee the principal in interest?
24 A. Yes.
25 299 Q. This was guaranteed by Guinness & Mahon for you?
26 A. Yes. I wasn't aware of that at the time your
27 Honour.
28 300 Q. You were not aware at the time?
29 A. No.
47
1 301 Q. If you were not aware of that how did you think the
2 loan was going to be secured?
3 A. Well, the relationship with Des, with Mr. Traynor,
4 was a very personal kind of relationship. I had
5 every trust in him your Honour.
6 302 Q. Yes?
7 A. And it wasn't really like a formal one where you go
8 into a bank and you sit down and they give you all
9 these papers to sign.
10 303 Q. Yes. However, Guinness & Mahon was a bank. It had
11 a customer. It was lending $50,000. Surely you
12 must have thought that, no matter what your informal
13 relationship with Traynor was, the Bank would need
14 some security?
15 A. I didn't.
17 A. No.
18 305 Q. Well...(INTERJECTION)?
19 A. He didn't ask for security in other loans that I got
20 your Honour.
21 306 Q. Yes. However, in fact, did Guinness Mahon Cayman
22 Trust not guarantee these loans?
23 A. I wasn't aware at that time that they did guarantee
24 it.
25 307 Q. When did you become aware of it?
26 A. Recently.
27 308 Q. Recently?
28 A. Yes.
29 309 Q. Very well. If you would turn to page 124. This was
48
1 a loan of $45,000 (Exhibit 16)?
2 A. Yes.
3 310 Q. The document makes no reference at all to how it was
4 to be secured?
5 A. Yes.
6 311 Q. Then, I think, if you turn over the page you will
7 see a document from Mr. Traynor to the Bank, and it
8 is the 27th January 1987 (Exhibit 17):
9
"I am returning herewith guarantee
10 form, which I have signed in connection
with the U.S. $45,000 loan.".
11
12 So this also was guaranteed by Guinness & Mahon.
13 This was a loan, I think, to your son, is that
14 right? For your son's purposes?
15 A. Em...(INTERJECTION).
16 312 Q. If you turn over the page to 127 (Exhibit 18)?
17 A. Yes.
18 313 Q.
19 "Joseph Malone,"
20
21 and there somebody has written,
22
23 "Junior"
24
25 A. Junior, yes. Joseph W, yes.
26 314 Q. Yes. You see?
27 A. Yes.
28 315 Q. Do you see it says:
29 "Security: Guarantee signed by GMCT"?
49
2 A. Yes.
3 316 Q.
"Security adequate"?
4
5 A. Yes.
6 317 Q. That also was guaranteed?
7 A. Yes.
8 318 Q. In fact, if you turn to the page 130, you will see
9 that this is a letter in April 1987 to Mr. Traynor
10 from your secretary (Exhibit 19)?
11 A. Yes.
12 319 Q. In Dublin?
13 A. Yes.
14 320 Q.
"Mr. Malone has asked me to forward the
15 enclosed cheque for U.S.$45,503. If
you would lodge against loan which he
16 took out on behalf of Joseph W"?
17
18 A. Yes.
19 321 Q. Can you tell me the circumstances in which that
20 payment was made?
21 A. Because the loan that I took out on behalf of my
22 son, we didn't use the money.
23 322 Q. Yes?
24 A. It was never used. So, it was returned to
25 Des Traynor.
26 323 Q. I see. Where did you get the cash from for the
27 cheque?
28 A. I would have to check that your Honour.
29 324 Q. Would you do that?
50
1 A. I will, yes, I will.
2 325 Q. If you go back...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. Of course.
4 326 Q. If you would go back some pages to 119?
5 A. 119, Okay.
6 327 Q. You will see that this is a letter addressed to you
7 on the 11th August 1987. Have you got that (Exhibit
8 20) ?
9 A. Yes, I have.
10 328 Q. This is a $50,000 loan. Then if you would look at
11 the interest:
12 "We propose charging interest on

the loan at 2% over the cost to
13 Guinness & Mahon Limited of taking
funds for the period of the loan."
14
15 What did that mean to you?
16 A. Well, that means to me that whatever -- in other
17 words that if they got money from The Central Bank,
18 that whatever the cost to them of that amount, they
19 would charge me 2% more.
20 329 Q. Yes?
21 A. That is what that meant to me.
22 330 Q. Or if they got money from, if they could use, the
23 deposit, your deposit, in the Cayman Islands, that
24 may have been transferred, in respect of which there
25 was an arrangement, that the money could be used
26 here in Ireland. It could have been your Cayman
27 money, could it not?
28 A. Well, other loans that I have taken out from other
29 banks your Honour, they always say 1% over prime or

1 2% over prime.
2 331 Q. I see?
3 A. And that would be my understanding.
4 332 Q. I see?
5 A. That was the situation.
6 333 Q. I see. Right. Would you turn to page 132 (Exhibit
7 21) ?
8 A. Yes.
9 334 Q. This is a loan. This is a memorandum from
10 Mr. Traynor to Mr. O'Dwyer, in April 1987. It is a
11 loan in U.S, dollars of $45,000. Sorry, that is the
12 other document. I am sorry. Would you turn to
13 page 132?
14 A. Yes, I have 132. Yes, your Honour.
15 335 Q. This is an internal credit committee application?
16 A. Yes.
17 336 Q. It is a loan application for US$35,000 for
18 Mr. Malone?
19 A. Yes.
20 337 Q. If you look at the third line of the paragraph:
21 "Security is held - funds held by

Ansbacher."?
22
23 338 Q. Is it not clear that "Ansbacher's" funds were being
24 used as security for this loan?
25 A. It does now. It does, yes, but I wasn't aware of
26 that at the time your Honour.
27 339 Q. Yes. If we could turn to the loan that you referred
28 to at the outset of your evidence, the US$330,000
29 loan from?
52
1 A. Intercontinental.
2 340 Q. From IIB?
4 341 Q. If you turn to page 140 please. 140 is it? Sorry,
5 page 40. I am sorry it is at page 40. It is a
6 letter from "Ansbacher" to The Irish
7 Intercontinental (Same Handed) (Exhibit 22)?
8 A. Thank you.
9 342 Q. This is a letter from Mr. Traynor to IIB to
10 Ms. Lynch?
11 A. Yes .
12 343 Q. It is the 9th December 1991. It is:
13 "Dear Siobhan, I have written to you

separately re facility for Joseph
14 Malone.
15 This is to confirm that Ansbacher will

guarantee the facility and place
16 U.S.$350,000 to credit of a separate
Deposit Account."
17
18 Did you know anything about that?
19 A. I did at the time, yes. He told me because he said
20 that -- I remember Des saying that they had entered
21 into a relationship with Intercontinental Bank in
22 Ireland and he gave me some reason as to why they
23 couldn't do it through Guinness & Mahon any more.
24 344 Q. Yes?
25 A. Because I think "Ansbacher" had bought over
26 Guinness & Mahon in Ireland I think but that was
27 my understanding that "Ansbacher" bought over
28 Guinness & Mahon, and "Ansbacher" in Ireland had an
29 arrangement with Intercontinental Bank and that they
53
1 needed this guarantee.
2 345 Q. As far as this loan was concerned, from IIB,
3 Mr. Traynor told you why it was from IIB and not
4 from Guinness & Mahon?
5 A. Yes.
6 346 Q. Then he told you they needed a guarantee?
8 347 Q. And this was going to be given by IIB?
9 A. That is right.
10 348 Q. If you would just turn to the security letter. It
11 is page 42 (Same Handed) (Exhibit 23)?
12 A. Thank you.
13 349 Q. The security letter is dated December 16th. It
14 gives the normal paragraph heading and then if you
15 turn to the second page, page 43, and to Security?
16 A. Yes.
17 350 Q. The security is:
18 "The deposit by the Borrower with IIB

of the share certificates... ."?
19
20 A. Yes.
21 351 Q. Relating to Jefferson Smurfit?
22 A. Yes.
23 352 Q. There is no reference at all to the fact that the
24 loan was being guaranteed by IIB. Did you notice
25 that -- sorry, it is being guaranteed by
26 "Ansbacher". Did you notice that?
27 A. No, I didn't your Honour.
28 353 Q. Yes?
29 A. No, I didn't, but I thought that all the
54
1 Intercontinental -- sorry, I had a few -- I think
2 two loans from Intercontinental and I thought that
3 all of them were backed by "Ansbacher".
4 354 Q. They were?
5 A. That was my understanding.
6 355 Q. They were?
7 A. Sorry, yes.
8 356 Q. However, they were not referred to in the facility
9 letter?
10 A. Sorry, yes.
11 357 Q. That is the point I make?
12 A. Yes, your Honour, I understand now.
13 358 Q. Yes?
14 A. Incidently I was very unhappy with that at that time
15 your Honour really.
16 359 Q. If you could just turn to page 101 please (Same
17 Handed)?
18 A. Yes.
19 360 Q. This is a letter from Joan Williams. I take it you
20 knew Joan Williams (Exhibit 24)?
21 A. Yes.
22 361 Q. She was Mr. Traynor's secretary?
23 A. I do, yes.
24 362 Q. You did?
25 A. Yes, yes.
26 363 Q. Yes. She was acting -- this was in October 1994.
27 This was after his death, I think?
28 A. Yes.
29 364 Q. It was for Hamilton Ross, she was acting for
55
1 Hamilton Ross, and she says:
2 "Please apply interest to our Account

No..."
3
4 Blank, the number is given,
5 "...and transfer sufficient to

close the Loan Account in the name
6 of Mr. Joseph Malone.
7 Please make no reference to source on

the loan transfer details."
8
9 Do you know why that was put in the letter?
10 A. I have never even seen this before.
11 365 Q. I am sure not. However, you...(INTERJECTION)?
12 A. No, I wouldn't know.
13 366 Q. You would not know?
14 A. No.
15 367 Q. You do not know why she would...(INTERJECTION)?
16 A. No.
17 368 Q. Instruct the bank not to make any reference to the
18 source?
19 A. No, no, your Honour.
20 369 Q. Yes. I see. I just want to turn to another subject
21 briefly Mr. Malone?
22 A. Yes.
23 370 Q. It is about the withdrawals which you made from
24 Guinness & Mahon and IIB?
25 A. Yes.
26 371 Q. Page 189 (Same Handed) (Exhibit 25)?
27 A. Thank you.
28 372 Q. You see Mr. Malone that this is a letter in
29 July 1990 from Mr. Traynor to Guinness & Mahon. It
56
1 is:
2 "Could you please arrange the transfer

of US$60,000 to: Chemical Bank..."
3
4 And:
5 "... for credit to the Account of

O'Dwyer & Bernstien..."
6
7 And then:
8
"...the cost should be debited to
9 Ansbacher Limited A/G U.S. Dollar Call
Account."
10
11 This was in respect of a payment that you had
12 directed to be made?
14 373 Q. Yes. There was a transfer being made from the
15 "Ansbacher Limited A/G U.S. Dollar Call

Account,"
16
17 and the number is given?
18 A. The number of the account is given, is that what you
19 are saying your Honour?
20 374 Q. Yes. Also the code number "A/G"?
21 A. Yes, but I wouldn't have seen this your Honour.
22 375 Q. No, I know that?
23 A. Yes.
24 376 Q. Yes, I know that?
25 A. Yes, I understand. I understand, yes.
26 377 Q. What I am...(INTERJECTION)?
27 A. Yes.
28 378 Q. What I am suggesting to you Mr. Malone is that it
29 does appear from this letter that the payment which
57
1 you requested to be made of $60,000 was made by
2 drawing out of an "Ansbacher" Limited account
3 designated:
4 "A/G U.S. Dollar Call Account,"
6 with a number?
7 A. Yes.
8 379 Q. That, in fact, refers to your funds. Would you
9 agree with that?
10 A. That is what is suggested.
11 380 Q. Yes?
13 381 Q. Very well. Would you just look at the next letter?
14 It is page 190 (Same Handed). This is August 1990,
15 a few days later (Exhibit 26)?
16 A. Yes.
17 382 Q. Your instructions are for Mr. Traynor to transfer
18 US$80,000 to a bank in Boston to the credit of
19 Mr. Malone, and debit "Ansbacher" Account and it is
20 the same account number?
21 A. Yes, your Honour, yes.
22 383 Q. It looks like it?
23 A. It does.
24 384 Q. It looks like your account, does it?
25 A. It does. It does.
26 385 Q. If you turn to page 191, the 1st March 1991. It is
27 again from Mr. Traynor (Exhibit 27)?
28 A. Yes.
29 386 Q. It is a payment of US$30,000 to the account of
58
1 Mr. & Mrs. Malone?
2 A. Yes.
3 387 Q. And:
4 "The Sterling cost should be debited to

Ansbacher Limited Call Account,"
5
6 and it is a different account. It seems to be
7 debiting an account which was used for your
8 purposes, is that not so?
10 388 Q. The 11th March, page 192, there is another transfer
11 of IR£10,000 to AIB. It is an account and the
12 (Exhibit 28) number is given. It seems to be the
13 same number as the other one and the "Ansbacher"
14 Limited Call Account with the number, same number,
15 is to be debited?
17 389 Q. Very well. There is a letter then that we have
18 already referred to at page 193 (Exhibit 30)?
19 A. Yes.
20 390 Q. Would you turn to a letter at page 194 of the
21 3rd July (Same Handed)?
22 A. Okay.
23 391 Q.
"I would be grateful if you would
24 immediately arrange to transfer the sum
of US$60,000 to - Bank of Ireland,"
25
26 in New York for the account of yourself and your
27 wife and the debit should be to the US Call Account.
28 The account is again designated with a number and
29 then account "AG". This seems to be your code, does
59
1 it not?
2 A. It does. It does, your Honour, yes.
3 392 Q. Then there is another letter, on page 195, in
4 September 1992 (Exhibit 31)?
5 A. Yes.
6 393 Q. In which Mr. Traynor asked Mr. Humphries to arrange:
7 "For collection as soon as possible a

U.S. Dollar draft for US$35,000 payable
8 to Mr. J.N. Malone and debit the cost
to Ansbacher Limited re Poinciana Ltd.
9 No 2 Account."
10
11 Have you heard of Poinciana Ltd.?
12 A. No.
13 394 Q. That account is being used to make the payment which
14 you required?
15 A. Yes, I see that.
16 395 Q. Yes. Apart from the fact it would indicate, these
17 documents indicate, that the coded account was being
18 used to make these payments. It does appear as if
19 you were directing fairly substantial sums to be
20 paid out of your account. Why did you say in your
21 statement to us that you did not make any payments?
22 You said:

24 Limited."
25
26 A. But I thought that my counsel had explained that at
27 the beginning.
28 396 Q. Well... (INTERJECTION)?
29 A. At that time, when I made that, I made it in
60
1 good faith and that was my understanding
2 but...(INTERJECTION).
3 397 Q. No, you are misunderstanding me?
4 A. Sorry. I am sorry your Honour.
5 398 Q. The documents which I have referred you to show that
6 there was substantial payments being made?
7 A. Yes .
8 399 Q. Out of your account?
9 A. Yes .
10 400 Q. In Guinness & Mahon here in Dublin?
11 A. Yes .
12 401 Q. Your statement, which was given to us quite
13 recently, states:

15 Limited"?
16
17 A. Yes. I am sorry your Honour. I understood that to
18 be the use of deposits by Irish residents in
19 Ireland, that I never withdrew money out of it in
20 Ireland. That is what my understanding of that was.
21 It wasn't that I didn't withdraw them when I was in
22 America.
23 402 Q. What you were telling us then: You were not telling
24 us that you withdrew funds from your accounts in
25 Guinness & Mahon in Ireland, you were telling us
26 that you did not withdraw them in Ireland?
27 A. That is right. That is what I meant by that
28 your Honour.
29 403 Q. I wonder is even that correct

1 because...(INTERJECTION)?
2 A. It is not now.
3 404 Q. Sorry, you are right your Honour because my counsel
4 or my lawyer, when he came in, explained that now I
5 have discovered two or three and also now I have
6 discovered these your Honour?
7 405 Q. Very well?
8 A. But at the time I understood -- I mean when I talked
9 to Mr. Traynor, I understood these were not coming
10 out of Ireland. I mean...(INTERJECTION).
11 406 Q. Is the position then that these sums, that we have
12 referred to in this correspondence, were paid by
13 Mr. Traynor as a result of instructions which you
14 gave him?
15 A. That is right. I would call him and say, "I need
16 this or I need that or I need the other," and he
17 would...(INTERJECTION).
18 407 Q. Would you write to him or would you telephone him,
19 can you remember?
20 A. Telephone him.
21 408 Q. Telephone him?
22 A. Yes .
23 409 Q. You would telephone him from America and ask him for
24 funds ?
26 410 Q. You thought that the funds were going to come from
27 the Cayman Islands, is that the position?
28 A. Yes .
29 411 Q. When did you learn, in fact, that the funds came
1 from the account here in Guinness & Mahon, these
2 coded accounts in Guinness & Mahon? When did you
3 learn that?
4 A. Well, I learned before the Moriarty Tribunal. The
5 Intercontinental Bank ones I knew came from Ireland
6 because it came from The Intercontinental Bank. The
7 other ones I wasn't aware of, came from Ireland,
8 until I checked my records and found one or two
9 there that went directly to AIB and these ones
10 (INDICATING) I only learned about today your Honour.
11 412 Q. Mr. Malone, it appears that you opened, or
12 Mr. Traynor on your behalf opened, a deposit account
13 in the Cayman Islands around about 1975/76?
14 A. Yes .
15 413 Q. You were Director General of Bord Failte until 1983
16 and then you were here in the position that you have
17 mentioned in Smurfits?
18 A. Yes .
19 414 Q. It seems as if it was about 1984 or so that you went
20 to Michigan, would that be right?
21 A. Yes, late 1983 I got -- I was contracted to go to
22 Michigan.
23 415 Q. Yes. When did you, in fact, take up residence in
24 Michigan?
25 A. I went to New York.
26 416 Q. New York?
27 A. I had a residence in New York.
29 A. Around end of 1983. I went on my own and my family
63
1 joined me about a year late.
2 418 Q. Yes?
3 A. Or nine months later.
4 419 Q. From 1975/76 to 1983 you were resident for tax
5 purposes in Ireland?
7 420 Q. Did you return any of the interest that was earned
8 on the Cayman deposits for tax purposes?
9 A. I am looking into that at the moment because any --
10 what would you call -- any certificates that
11 Des Traynor supplied to me, I paid tax on.
12 421 Q. Yes?
13 A. But now I have engaged a tax advisor because of the
14 domicility and because of the residency.
15 422 Q. Yes?
16 A. Both here and in the United States to have a look at
17 all of this.
18 423 Q. Who is looking after your tax affairs?
19 A. Here in Ireland?
20 424 Q. Yes?
21 A. A man by the name of Ken Ryan.
22 425 Q. Sorry?
23 A. Ken Ryan. He is an auditor.
24 426 Q. Ken?
25 A. Ryan, R-y-a-n.
26 427 Q. Yes?
27 A. He is an auditor.
28 428 Q. He is an auditor?
29 A. Yes.
64
1 429 Q. Is he in private practice?
2 A. He is in private practice.
3 430 Q. What is his firm's name?
4 A. I think it is Muldow, M-u-l-d-o-w, Ryan & Company.
5 431 Q. Yes. I was not talking about certificates of tax.
6 It was certificates of interest in relation to
7 interest that was earned on funds in Ireland. I am
8 talking about interest that was earned in the
9 Cayman Islands?
10 A. Yes.
11 432 Q. I am asking you was that interest, whatever it was,
12 returned for tax purpose?
14 433 Q. No. Would I be correct in saying that from the
15 point of view of the Revenue, the Irish Revenue, it
16 was never returned. You say you were not resident
17 after a certain date?
18 A. That is right, your Honour. Yes, that is right.
19 434 Q. So you would not have to?
21 435 Q. For whatever reason it was never returned?
22 A. That is right your Honour.
23 436 Q. I just want to come to the question of when you
24 ceased to be a taxable person here under the Irish
25 Code. When was that?
26 A. 1974/75 my understanding was.
27 437 Q. But... (INTERJECTION)?
28 A. For... (INTERJECTION) .
29 438 Q. That cannot...(INTERJECTION)?
65
1 A. I am only talking about the first time.
2 439 Q. Yes?
3 A. Then when I came back to Ireland I paid it. I made
4 all my returns. I paid all my taxes in Ireland
5 and...(INTERJECTION).
6 440 Q. Until when?
7 A. Well, but even when I was in the States I had --
8 even when I was in the States I had property in
9 Ireland that was let and I returned all of that to
10 the Irish tax authorities and paid my tax on it.
11 441 Q. Yes?
12 A. That is from 1967 until 1997.
13 442 Q. Yes. So that on property you were liable to make
14 returns for tax purposes?
16 443 Q. What I am concerned about is income, did you
17 pay...(INTERJECTION)?
18 A. I paid income tax too. I mean on...(INTERJECTION).
19 444 Q. On that?
20 A. On?
21 445 Q. On the property?
22 A. On the property and on any investment -- sorry, I
23 Director's fees, I had other things that I got, and
24 all of that was paid.
25 446 Q. Were you treated by the Revenue authorities in
26 Ireland as being resident in Ireland?
27 A. During the years that I was here in the 1970's?
28 447 Q. Yes?
29 A. Yes, I was, yes.
66
1 448 Q. And the years after you left and went to live in the
2 States, in 1983 onwards?
3 A. Yes.
4 449 Q. What was the tax position then?
5 A. I was not treated -- I was treated as a
6 non-resident.
7 450 Q. You were not treated as a non-resident?
8 A. Yes. For any income I would have earned in Ireland
9 I would have returned it and I would have looked
10 for...(INTERJECTION).
11 451 Q. Double taxation relief?
12 A. That is right, yes, in the United States.
13 452 Q. On the basis that you were non-resident?
14 A. Yes, that is right and that was the way it was
15 handled.
16 453 Q. In relation to any of the gains that you may have
17 made, including interest on the deposit in the
18 Cayman Islands, did you return that to the
19 US Revenue authorities?
20 A. No, your Honour. No, your Honour.
21 454 Q. I did ask you at the very beginning whether the
22 tax position was discussed with Mr. Traynor. Was it
23 discussed with Mr. Traynor at all?
24 A. No, it wasn't.
25 455 Q. It was not?
26 A. No, it wasn't.
27 456 Q. Did you get advice from anybody, from Mr. Ryan or
28 anybody, as to whether or not you were liable to
29 return these?
67
1 A. I did not discuss it with Mr. Ryan.
3 A. No.
4 458 Q. In the States did you have an advisor, an accountant
5 to advise you on your income tax position?
6 A. Yes, I made returns in the Unites States.
7 459 Q. Did you...(INTERJECTION)?
8 A. No, not in relation to Cayman Islands.
9 460 Q. You did not take any advice in relation to that?
10 A. No, but I am at the moment your Honour.
11 461 Q. Yes. Very well. Thank you Mr. Malone. That is
12 everything we need to ask you Mr. Malone. We would
13 like to look at the documents you have given us
14 today?
15 A. Of course, yes.
16 462 Q. However, unless there is something in that we might
17 not have to trouble you again. We will however have
18 to trouble you to come back to sign the transcript
19 of this evidence. It will be typed up and we would
20 ask you to come in to sign it?
21 A. Could I ask something?
22 463 Q. Yes?
23 A. Your Honour, may I sign that in the Unites States
24 with a lawyer in the Unites States and have it
25 ...(INTERJECTION).
26 464 Q. I see. Mr. Malone you are going back to the States?
27 A. Yes.
28 465 Q. That would be all right. We could arrange that?
29 A. Yes.
68
1 466 Q. I think for legal reasons?
2 A. Yes.
3 467 Q. We might have to ask you to get a notary public to
4 witness your signature?
5 A. Yes, I will, yes. I will get my lawyer in America
6 to...(INTERJECTION).
7 468 Q. Yes, exactly.
8 A. My lawyer will contact the lawyer in America and do
9 the whole thing.
10 469 Q. I will look after that, yes. Thank you very much.
11 A. Yes.
12
13 THE EXAMINATION THEN CONCLUDED
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
69
GLV.'CWWVX
So r-
/ •nu
J
J.M. 4/OR I. MALOOT !
xEyyftnaiT Acwcpf AccooffT
•• • I •«
I n v w t M n t i at Goat
»
s.
7,189.00
16,000 Aran Bn«rgy
88,324.40
50,000 A.Z.U. Sharaa
62,765.20
25,000 CRH Shares
6,765.78
5,000 Bank of Ireland Cap.Sharaa
8165,044.46
.V
•ilk* •
"'ft"
* )
•"US
.fffij.
IP
:< re;.-
"MV-':.
f
ANSBACHER LIMITED
A Member of ih* Hwwy Mitteehw Mwehenl Bwtinfl Qwiip
T, )plMiMN» (*0»-M)Mea3/4 P.O. Bo* M7
Tete* CT430S Onmf Cayman
C to Addr*« Gdnmee Mtth Wed Indiee
^ CTUffltf 3rd October, 1988.
J.H. Malone, Bag.,

16 Haters Bdge,
Rye,
N.Y. 10580,
cr Of ?f At,
I Dear Mr. Malone,

; With t h i s l e t t e r I have p l e a s u r e i n e n c l o s i n g two
ooplea of t h e s t a t e m e n t s of your i n v e s t m e n t account with u a . •
Z t h i n k you t r i l l find t h e f i g u r e s t o be s t r a i g h t f o r w a r d and in
t h e e v e n t they a g r e e with your records., I ahould be g r a t e f u l .
i f you would k i n d l y s i g n t h e a p p r o p r i a t e copy and r e t u r n i t to
D«a Traynor t o send on t o me.
| I n t h e event you have any q u e r i e s on t h e f i g u r e a , please
I l e t e i t h e r Des o r myself know a s soon a s p o s s i b l e .
Best w i s h e s .
Yours s i n c e r e l y ,
i
h
n
M t
J - A, FVffft
JAF/&JW
J M M O k L MALONE
INVESTMENT AGENCY ACCOUNT
5siM£l86HiJHL8tjltiL&iUijSS3
(AMffgiimw y w U h Ponmfc SUrlhj)
r
ASSETS:
lavotMcnt ml CoM - per Schadste St»ltiU»M«

Gull at Bank: -
"AAS'CrilD^MttA/e aoLn
Current Account
(404JM)
St|.l«M8M8
J SipranM byt
LIABILITIES: ,
>j
Capital Aecomt Slg. lfl.599.SI
Accoanta Payable(ae« schedule)
Stg. 1*M81.18
T
,/
/ J.N.A/OR LMAf*QNE
AGENCY A C C O ^
(AM flpm u p r n d hi UA DoBm)
ASSETS;
CMntBwk
"A/G" OA Dqxgit Account $350,00040
RtynMltd by:-
LIAPILIT1ES;
) Capital Accoaat $3SfcOQfcOO
- A O
/
JKflORLMALpNg
\
jBfifiBEsSSssl
•i »1 May 3L1993
(Expressed in Deutsche Mark)
;"T
ASSETS:
Cishal B n k -
DqpocK AecoM* -"A/O"
DBM 34.004.75
Represented by:
LIABILITIES:
Capital Account DEM 34,004.73
' )
I
I
T
JJV. and/or IMALONE

vmi i i | m s expressed n n n u i awiiiip
LIABILITIES;
Capital Account 415^519.82
r Accounts Payable 2.333J<S
Represented by:-
ASSEQi
Investments (at con) 165,04446
"AJOT QUI Deposit ^4,74057
"A/G" U.SJD. Deposit 22435857
"A/0" DMK Deposit
£417,853.38
Note:
The following exchange rateshave been utilised:
GBP « USD 1.56
GBP - DMK 2.48
4 A «
J.N. A/OR I. MALONE
BALANCE SHEET AS AT 31 ST MARCH 1991

(All figures expressed in Pounds Sterling)
i ASSETS:
,t Investments at Cost - per Schedule 158,278.68
Cash' at Barik:-
"A/G" Call Deposit (34.85)
Current Account (586.65)
&tg.£157,657.18
Represented by:
LIABILITIES;
Capital Account Stg.El57,657.18
\
Appendix XV (86) (1) (i)
/-s
zj: id x tn\LDioe ficcwof
P>t)tAtXe StfeeT.
AS RT 3/ar HQRCI4 tMl
f m US. t> OU-/>AS )
fisser* -
C-rtS* B-T 50pc
Iy^ ' C/iu. 2)£7bsrr Zlccflw/OT
CAPnifru flccotwT Usg 6/4.36E-46
*
n
m
m
*
m
Appendix XV (86) (1) (j)
•i
/
(All figures expressed in pounds sterling)
I.TABTLITy; -
Capital Account > Stg. 176,494.33
Represented by-
ASSEIS:-
Investments - 10,000 Aran Energy 4,981.08

Cnsli at bank:-
"A/G" Call Deposit Account 170,537.06
Current Account * 976.19
stg. 176,494.33
f(^^v
A MmdIw of ill* OuimMM Malwn M»rch»m l*nkm« Oraup
T«|aphm» Na l « U 4
t«i«> cp ms ptMMrapiyto 3 Trinity Stwsl, Qnmt cayman
DuWn2.
CiW*Mdiiii OaimiaM T«fc 790044/794834 Imiix WM* iMiu
Tal«c 93067
FacaMte: 720042
•urrrt JDT/AJW 17th November, T986.
P . O'Dwyer, E s q . ,
) Guinness + Itahon L i r a i t a d ,
17 C o l l e g e Green,
DUBLIN 2 .
1
Dear P a t ,
J o e Kalone, who l i v e s a t :
2015 Washtenawi
Ann A r b o r ,
Michigan 48104,
U. S . A.
r e q u i r e s a f a c i l i t y of U.S.$50,000 for twelve months w i t h
i n t e r e s t d e b i t e d q u a r t e r l y b u t r o l l e d up u n t i l m a t u r i t y .
•s G.M.C.T. w i l l g u a r a n t e e by way of u n c o n d i t i o n a l
j g u a r a n t e e t h e p r i n c i p a l and i n t e r e s t .
3 Nr. Malone w i l l r e q u i r e t h e f a c i l i t y t o be a v a i l a b l e
t o . him i n New York on t h e 2 6 t h November. Would you
t h e r e f o r e p l e a s e l e t me know a s q u i c k l y a s p o s s i b l e whether
o r n o t Guinness + Mahon a r e p r e p a r e d t o p r o v i d e t h e f a c i l i t y .
Yours s i n c e r e l y .
J.D. Traynor,
Chairman.
Appendix XV (86) (1) (1)
Ansbacher limited
Member of the Henry Ambaeher Hoidbtp PLC Merchant Banking Group
P.O. Box 817, Grand Ctyman, British West Indies

i- i : ^ . Please reply to: Phone: (809) 94M6S3/4
c > >» 42 FitzwiHiam Square, Teles CP 4305
Dublin 2. Fwc (809) 949-7946
(809) 9494267
Tel: 765144/763065
Fax: 612035
26th July., 1990.

M. David Humphries, Esq.,
Senior Manager Operations,
Guinness & Mahon Limited,
17 College Grei
DUBLIN 2.
Dear David,
Could you please arrange Jt&ie transfer of US$60,000 to:
Chemical Bank
52 Broad
• New
N.Y. 1
for credit to the/Account of
:count No.016-023498
The cost sh< ild be debited to Ansbacher Limited A/G U.S.
Dollar- Cal Account No.13154962.
Please advise when the transaction has been put in train and
da£e valyte should be received at Cftynlcal Bank so that I can
advise glifent who can thenraon^For^fronPotherend.
Yours /feincerelyatf
ill!*0-
J.D. Traynor. (
A O O
Appendix XV (86) (1) (m)
•j —— * Lc—
— U ^ ; Ansbacher Limited
\troftht
Mtmltrty l/tt Htipi-jnibaehtr. NoMfog^9Bl?Mtrchont Banking Group
| P.O. Box B7, Oiajid Cayman, British Wait India

Please reply to: Phone; «09) 949-WJ3/4
42 Fltzwilliam Square, Talax: CP 4305
Dublin 2. Ft* (809) 949.7946
(809) 949-5287
Tfel: 765144/763065
Fax: 612035
1st August, 1990,

M. David H u m p h r i e s , E s q . ,
S e n i o r Manager - o p e r a t i o n s .
Guinness & Mahon L i m i t e d ,
17 C o l l e g e G r e e n ,
DOBLIN 2 .
Dear D a v i d ,
Could you p l e a s e a r r a n g e t o t r a n s f e r US$60,000 t o
/
C o o l i d g e Bank' and T r u s t Company
75 A r l i n g t o n S t r e e t /
Boston /
MA 02116 ./
/'
for c r e d i t t o /
Account Name/ J o s e p h N. Malone
Account No/ 810-099-3
-V V /
The d e b i t s h o u l d aft t o Ansbacher L i m i t e d A/G U . S . Dollar

, C a l l Account No.1y3154962.
( - ) - /
P l e a s e a d v i s e ^ a t e v a l u e c a n be e x p e c t e d i n B o s t o n .
Yours sincerely, i
i:
J.D. Traynor
/
/'
/
'* V
JDT/AJW
-i a n
AMoacner unuted
A Hmbtr tftht Uawy AnMrnr HoUbgi PLC Mmxham Bankmg Group
Please reply to: F.O. Bex 117, Omad Cijmaa. BrfaiiJi Wot iû,
42 Fitzwilliam Square, Tate CP 4309
Dublin 2. F«k (909) MMM
«09) M9-S267
Tel: 765144/763065
Fuc 612035
1 s t March, 1991
G a r r e t t Logan, E s q . ,
I r i s h I n t e r c o n t i n e n t a l Bank L i m i t e d ,
91 Merrion S q u a r e ,
DUBLIN 2 .
Dear G a r r e t t ,
I would be g r a t e f u l i f you could p l e a s e a r r a n g e v a l u e Monday
4 t h March t o t r a n s f e r IR£30,000 t o
A l l i e d I r i s h Banks
Bankcentre Branch
Branch No. 93 13 65
f o r c r e d i t t o t h e Account of
Mr. and Mrs. J o s e p h Malone
Account No.27315048.
The S t e r l i n g c o s t should be d e b i t e d t o Ansbacher L i m i t e d C a l l
Account No.02/01087/81.
In view of t h e time element i n v o l v e d I am l e t t i n g you have a
copy of t h i s l e t t e r by fax - t h e o r i g i n a l w i l l r e a c h you i n t h e
normal way on Monday.
Vours s i n c e r e l y .
Appendix XV (86) (l)(o)
Ansoscner umitcq
A Mmkr 9fUm Htmy AmbmeJmr Hakhf* PLC Mtnhom tanking Grot?
P.O. I n W. Ocud CsymaiuBritidi Wm

Please reply to: thorn* (KH MMUJ/4
42 FitzwOUam Square. Tatac CP 430S
Dublin 2. Fax: (MO Mf-7946
(MQMMM7
Tel: 765144/763065
R u : 612035
11th March, 1991

G a r r e t t Logan, S a q . ,
I r i s h i n t e r c o n t i n e n t a l Bank L i m i t e d ,
91 Merrion S q u a r e ,
DUBLIN 2 .
Dear G a r r e t t ,
I would b e g r a t e f u l i f you c o u l d p l e a s e a r r a n g e t h e t r a n s f e r of
IRJE10,000 t o
A l l i e d I r i s h Banks
Bankcentre Branch
Branch No.93 13 65
for c r e d i t t o t h e Account of
Mr. and Mrs. J o s e p h Malone
Account NO.27315048.
I would l i k e t h e funds t o r e a c h t h e Account not l a t e r t h a n t h e
15th March.
P l e a s e d e b i t t h e S t a r l i n g c o s t t o Ansbacher Limited C a l l Account
No.02/01087/81.
Yours s i n c e r e l y »
> •
J.D. Traynor
\o<\
4 Q O
Appendix XV (86) (l)(p)
"ZTSST^ « FITZWIUUAM SQUARE,
Flic. 612038 DUBLIN 2.
STRICTLY PKRSOKAL 23rd Nay, 1991

iT.tf. Mai one, Esq.,
President/Managing D i r e c t o r ,
Boston Park Plaza H o t e l A Towers,
50 Park P l a z a ,
BOSTON,
MA.02117.
Dear J o e ,
I have p l e a s u r e i n ' e n c l o s i n g herewith Accounts e t c . f o r b o t h
S t e r l i n g and 0 . 6 . D o l l a r Agency Accounts .in Cayman f o r t h e
p e r i o d *<3t J u l y 1990 ( l a s t Accounts you had were t o 30th J a n e )
t o th« 31st Mr-r;. 1991. x t h i n k t h a t most items a r e v e r y
c l e a r b u t I wou-d j u s t make r e f e r e n c e t o a number of w i t h d r a w a l s
__ J! « ?
• (1) U.S.$60,000 was t r a n s f e r r e d to
S p e c i a l Account.
(2) U.S.$80,000 was t r a n s f e r r e d t o you a t Coolidge Bank .
and Trust Company.
(3) The t r a n s f e r t o A . I . B . i n S t e r l i n g r e p r e s e n t e d a t o t a l
of XRS40,000-sent i n two t r a n c h e s , one f o r XR£30,000 '
and t h e o t h e r for IR«10,000.
(4) The figure i n d i c a t e d a s t r a n s f e r r e d t o G. A M. of
Stg.E818.77 r e p r e s e n t e d IRE880.40 and was t o t a k e up
t h e r i g h t s of 2201 Shares i n Aran Snergy. These
r i g h t s were on 3669 Aran Shares which a r e h e l d - i n your
name a t Guinness A Mahon. I am a t t a c h i n g h e r e t o a
copy pf my l e t t e r o f t h e 12th. August '87 i n t h i s . c o n n e c t i o n .
I • * *
Should you have any a d d i t i o n a l q u e r i e s , p l e a s e a d v i s e ,
with k i n d e s t r e g a r d s ,
Youts s i n c e r e l y .
J . D . Travnor.
Appendix XV (86) (l)(q)
Ansbacher limited
A Mtmbtr efiht Hatry Antbtdm HeUhg) PLC Mtrthmu Am***
P.O. BM 117. Grand Ciymao. Britfch Wbt India

Phoot (S09) 9494(33/4
Take CP 4303
Fax; (MS) 949-7946
— Please reply tor 009)9494267
42 FltzwiQitm Square.
Dublin Z
Tel; 765144/763065 3rd July, 1991.
Fax; 612035
linwtta/
C*rr«ee Logan• Kaq.>
Iriah Intercontinental Bask Ltd.,
91, Merrion Squara,
Dublin 2.
y
*
Dear Garrett,
I would b« grataful if you would lamdiately arraaga to crana far
eh* aua of 08$60,000 to -
Bank of Iraland, Vow York Branch,
640 Sth Avenue, Kav York, H.Y. 10019.
For Account of Joaeph and laialda Malona
Account No. 01205136
The Dab It ahould be to U.S. Call Deposit{03/05442/81(88?)
Please advise valua data It will be in place.

Youra aincerely,
J. D. Traynor.
/c? DT 10^18
Appendix XV (86) (1) (r)
Please reply to:
42 Fftzwffliam Square,
Dublin Z. P.O.'Box S87, Qnnd Caymaa, Cay md*. British We»t I
Tel: 765143/763065 TULAMLUUKA*
9493534 Telex: £p 4305
Rue 612D35 iwpnoDK
1)949-7946(809)949-5267
Piftifnifld
28ttt September, 1992.

M. David Humphries, B s q . ,
S e n i o r Manager - O p e r a t i o n s ,
Guinness & Mahon L i m i t e d ,
17 C o l l e g e Green,
DUBLIN 2 .
Dear David,
Could you p l e a s e a r r a n g e t o l e t me have f o r c o l l e c t i o n a s soon
a s p o s s i b l e a U.S. D o l l a r d r a f t f o r US$35,000 p a y a b l e t o
Mr. J . N . Malone and d e b i t t h e c o s t t o Ansbacher L i m i t e d r e
P o i n c i a n a L t d . No.2 Account No.08428030.
Yours s i n c e r e l y .
J . D . Travnor.
SS®5
O
P'
Q
JDT/AJW
oumeey. MONACO AMD BwiranUND

Appendix XV (86) (1) (s)
/
/
r '.
Balance as at 31st December, 1989 165/877.03

Net surplus as at 30th June, 1S>90 10,616.50
Stg. 176,494.33
\
)
Appendix XV (87) Mr Ronald Markham & Ms Jean Peterson
Ronald Markham and Ms Jean Peterson.
a) Letter of 14 March 1986 - GMCT to Guinness and Mahon.
b) Guinness and Mahon Credit Committee memorandum of 6 February 1987.
c) Guinness and Mahon Credit Committee memorandum of 25 October

1986.
d) Guinness and Mahon of 16 June 1986 - GMCT re Markham No 2.
e) Guinness and Mahon statement of 20 May 1986 - GMCT re Markham.

r*
GUINNESS MAHON: CAYMAN TRUST UMTtl-D

A Mentbar of (h* OuboMM Mahon Merchant Sinking Qroup
Talaplions No (80044) 04663M . P.O. Box 887
Telex CP430S Stand Cayman.
Cattb Addraaa Qulnneas ' ' BrttdtWaai
14th March, 1.986
your r»f
our ni JAC:ee
r*
' Mr. J. D . Traynor

Guinness & Mahon Ltd.
17 Collage Green
Dublin 2
IRELAND
Dear Des,
RONALD MARKHAM AND/OR JEAN PETERSON
Reference our ' telephone conversation, 1 enclose Loan Agreement and

Promissory Note, in duplicate, Cor the abovenamed. '
Please execute the Loan Agreement and return one executed copy and a copy
of the Promissory Note to Mr. Markham direct in Florida. 1 think it is
right for him to have a direct contact from yourself. The address is in
the Loan Agreement.
As explained, Mr. Markham has opened an' Investment Agency account with
ourselves and is injecting $1 million into it, and with this and the $1
million loan from yourselves is investing $2 million in the Guinness Mahon
Global Strategy Fund - European Class. All investments purchased will be
held by us in our name or Co our order by Guinness Mahon, Guernsey.
Ve will be backing your loan to the clients by sn equivalent deposit from

ourselves. The differential between the interest rate on the loan and
deposit will be % of IX, and 1 suggest we just arrange to pay you this
differential every six months, as we will be paying the interest either from
dividends on the investments or additions to the loan and deposit, or
injection of further funds by Mr. Markham.
Once the full investment is completed, which wc expect to be in-a week's
time, 1 will have Mike Shield advise Pat O'Dwyer of the details and interest
II- -r
u- . If ilfc .. ii. * i •: it*
it "M (<• I I'HI* ll.HI).l>. I ft: V $ Ijf'H
.• • • •. «. . • i'lflil
I*rffjQ' » • I' "•"••'I* - '- if• : V' 'ijl'ill
m.iH •
• •• • X
Mr. J. D. Traynor 14th March, 1 & 6
rates. The io»n should be in two tranches, one US$230,06b as of today, and
one of US$750,000 as.of next Friday.
Kind regards,
Yoi sincerely,
' JOHNl A. COLLINS

ends
r<
/
1 . . , A.
» I'M ft l»>ll).lil< Iff: • ''ijMitn] •f !•! |
I Mu J,.; 1 . < In • fc-
' • •• )«•• I B' ' tCTT » pll 'l!jr
* • W*' ' '» t a <••"« li-h taik.lt
WMW<'MIMM Mg •
•DR^S. 0 . Box 124, Sanlbet, Florida, U.S.A.
Equity Slake: No
JSINtoS/ C.B. Approval: Yn/No
CCUPATION: Company Director. Permission Obtained
Dst*: N/A
IIS APPLICATION: twaraaee / Exteniloo / ftwtaolent
(Mm* M appropriate) 'Existing facilities overleaf
VPE; Logn AMOUNT: $45AfiQ0...tja HATE: FEE:
SIJM,000
• »•••••«* I M I l M M I H M I I H l H l M IIKINHIIIMHIII
URPOSE/DRAWOOWN: If new or Increased

facilities. Is drawdown
psrmittad prior to
oompletion of security?
I r p t p t m e n t purposes
YES/NO
ERT 'JF FACILITIES: REVIEW DATES:
4.5.1988
1 y e a r 3 months.
iOURCE OF REPAYMENT:
Not s t a t e d .
JECURITY: If additional or sxlitino

faalMty. is security In order?
YES/NO
J o i n t & S e v e r a l P r o m i s s o r y N o t e • Funds held.
If No, give detail! eeperataly.
r*
BACKGROUND NOTE/
OUTLINE OF PROPOSAL:
We h a v e received a telex from G.M.C.T. requesting that we make this facility available for
a period t o 4th May, 198%. We have a corresponding deposit.
Loan Recommended:
deleted FicilitWBorrowttfi: CRIOtT COMMITTEE
(Btlance or Limit, whichever it greater)
Minute DstmULAJLL
Apgar & Markham Construction $500,000 - J'
Rieommeflded
BOARD
Total Exposure: $2,250,000 Minute.... AAi^Dst...
. Date: Approved
d ^ J K ^ ' Ronald Markham and/or Jean Peterson Credit Memorandum
Submitted by: P O ' D
AIX I s s ^ Box 129, Sanibel, Florida 33967, U . A .
Equity Staka: N o
BUSINESS/ C.B. Approval: Yes/No
OCCUPATION: Company Directors Parminion Obtalnad
Oats: N/A
TH IS APPLICATION: NIMiPtlCO^ÎM<flnMM)niiaBt»(^JBUIIIMIc/ Extension / ftNtaXkHXXX
rDrtM « approprkt*) 'Exitting facilities overleaf
TYPE: ifiKL - AMOUNT: W.rM'QftOQS RATE: 5»*..fiV.1>r. ...... FEE:
.6 M. LIBOR
•>•ta»t«••»••«•»•«H
illll»*MtlM**M«tl«IINU««*M«M«a<
PURPOSE/DRAWDOWN: If new or Ineraaied

facilities la drawdown
permitted prior to
^ Already drawn for Investment purposes completion of Mcurtty?
YES/NO
"N.
TERM O F FACILITIES: REVIEW DATES:
Extension for one year 24.10.87
SOURCE OF REPAYMENT:
Not stated.
SECURITY: If additional or existing
facility. Is security In order?
Joint & Several promissory note - Funds held. YES/Ittx
If No. ghra detail* Mparately.
) i
BACKGROUND NOTE/
We have been requested by G.M.C.T. to extend the above loan for a period of
one year. The account has been conducted In order. An interest differential of i %
will continue to prevail.
Related Facilities/Borrower*: CREDIT COMMITTIS

(Balance or Limit, whichever. i« graatar)
J* Mlnuta -J.XL
Ronald Mirkham/Jean Peterson U.S.SI,200,000
Agpar ft Markham Construction U.S.$500,000
I R«commwvd«d
BOARD
Total Expoiura: U.S.SI ,800,000 Minute....
f
Appendix XV (87) (l)(d)
G+M GUINNESS+MAHON LTD
17Catfaga<bM« OuMal i nlimi TIMll
CUXNMCSS NANON CAYMAN TXUST
M NARXHAN NO 2 STATCKW
U . S . OOLLAAS F M I NO.
' W F S I T OTRASIR LEDGER mm MJUNT*

OMI WMMOAIt
3
turait M A U M C C BMUOHT RKUAKO T50.000.00
NO ACCOUNT MV«N«NT STNCF LA IT STATIN(NT
.•Vv-.v
OMMMMMMMMHAMIM
MINNCSS TUHON CAYMAN TAUST

P 0 BOX B I T
SAANO CATNAN
M t r t S N MIST JNOICS
G+M GUJNNESS+MAHON LTD
IAMCCRS
»eiiiiitii.piwii p.aaMaMiu«Niw3MM
CUXNHCSS fUHOI CAVNAN 1HUST
MHt M NMIOUN S T A T M M T NO. « V
U.S. S Q I U M FABC NO. i

w w ofpscr otrasir LEDGER m m m
079101M 4
jhWATM
IWHMMIti
•SATMCFF MOIKHT P0MAR6 aso»<M«i
NO ACCOUNT NOVMINT SXNCLILAST STATIMCMT
i
Mi
'J
%
GUINNESS HAHON CAYMAN TRUST

M H I iir
6AAN0 CAT*AN
MITtSH MSST INDUS
Appendix XV (88) Mr John A Masek
John A Masek.
a) Guinness and Mahon credit committee memorandum of 9 February 1988.
b) Guinness and Mahon credit committee memorandum of 11 August 1987.
c) Guinness and Mahon credit committee memorandum of 11 August 1987.
d) Statement of 29 Feburary 1984 - GMCT re Masek.
e) Letter of 29 August 1990 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and Mahon.
f) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo of 25 June 1985 - Pat O'Dwyer to JD

Traynor.
r>
N*-" KELLY DRILLING CORPORATION Credit Mtmoranuuifi

Submitted by: PO'Q
AOORESS:c/o, John A. Masek, 1547, Caylord Street, Denver,
Cr ado 80206, U.S.A. Equity Stake: No.
BUSINESS/ _ _ ^ C.B. Approval: Yet/No
OCCUPATION: Oil Drilling Co. Permission Obtained
Data: N/A
THIS APPLICATION: / f**#*«Mxxx

lOtlrt* «f apprapritft) ygUMOWf UtBNKX »m
TYPE- Loan AMOUNT: S.LH.T.JMsf.flS. RATE: Cost..of...6 .m..f. FEE: M.'..!
* 1%
ji>, V /it
IrllwT
PURPOSE/DRAWOOWN: If new or increased

facilities, li drawdown
permitted prior to
Vorking capital - funds already taken up. completion of security?
YES/NO j\ f\\
TERM OF FACILITIES: REVIEW DATES:
xtenslon for 6 months. 5th August, 1988
SOURCE OP REPAYMENT:
iot stated.
SECURITY: It additional or existing

facility, h security in crder?
itfe Deeds to two drilling rigs,
ecurlty considered adequate. VES/.W«t
If No, givi details separately.
BACKGROUND NOTE/
e have received a request from GMCT to extend the loan for 6 months. We share the differential
ith G.M.C.T. who have placed runds on deposit with us. We have beenfcformed that a reduction may
i forthcomlgn before the end of March, it is expected full repayment may be made within extension
?riod requested.
xtension recommended.
! Rata tad Facilities/Borroweri: CREDIT COMMITTEE

lF"»»nce or Limit. whichever is greater)
Minute .•...'.Xk.ri.......
)hn A. Masek $2,550,242.17
4 _
Recommended
BOARD ~
Mfnvit Oa« UhlSl
l
IV M I L L I N G CORPOHATION C' *8'1 '.'KT-j-.c'e^r-
«
Sna'n-t'.Mtl !»'y S-C ' 0
« /c, John A . .Masek, 1547, Caylord Street,
Denver, Colorado 80204, I'.S.A. Enuitv Stufc..- N'<JV
cS- Si- C S. AnB»ww. «t/Ma
CCD ftTiON Oil drilling Co. Patrr.s:e-> Cn**-»vs
OJIC N"! A
'CA *.: Ncjwfiwtttx* A«UM*M&Ntf)rK ("emit Enwuio-' t*X$Mexxx
tdttoe M JMtoronrmnl *v« il"*7 'st.Mari 4v«rl»jf
AMOUNT. S I ,68.4.,.844.^75. .. PATt Cost..C-.£ S -X.R?I£
• 1% - 8%
(.U...di£fer«.-.r;a::
»UB •SfOffAWQOV'.S If n»w 3r ipc'VMfH

'»:>• |i*t. >1 i'.'JVUllO'A"
- ?v.rd3 aliiiady drawn p»'fi*:M pi 9- :n
CC-nplHtur j*
ss
TB? 0 AC'u "53 RSVIFCA R A - S S :
- ir.s'.er. Jsr o ••ncnt'r s "th "«:u-:ar>-,

E
SO'. O -
N stased
I' CCW<:<ir<: 2' it Kr?
1,
T LB Seeds to two drill:.-.3 ri$s. 'je.;.|y.if a'dr.'
S ur:iy csr.ai-Saract adequate. v«S ttXr.
H No. ilivr .!•••:. J M-J-JIBIV.
BA G30L-N0 >C~8.
cu I N C P R O P O S A L . ' T
O « »H
yiver. ac the request of 5XCT who have
L N
placed funds on deposit with us anrt whan we share cho

a 9IR.. This loan is ir. tic offset category. We have beers os>:OD fev G M C T L E
r 1 ovftr capital plus interest for a period of 6 ir.ont'r.rj.
E er.aion reccT,tendedi
ft: iq Fie •>::«»' CREDIT COMMITTER

16: •«» I» mil. .v«'{if.« -i grvjterl
KinuM 1 Cit» . >17
J in h. Maaefe $2 ,444,4'4.<? £
9CAMO
>
• : ixw. $4,129,459.22 :«. ZZiZ ,887,731 (Cl-ft.
A/aaA 1
r
'lA KELLY DRILLING CORPORATION UreOit MtrTMji auuui.i
Submitted by:
-OORtS C/O J o h n A. Masek, 1547 Gay lord St, Denver,
Equity Stake: NO
Colorado 80206. USA.
SUSINESV C.B. Approval: Vti/No
Permission Obtained
OCCUPATION: Oil Drilling Company. N A
Data: /
'HIS APPLICATION: Nm£aR*ix*MititiOMft&M)tKV ' >ncr»sa / Extension /jfalMMKK
IO*l*tt u ippraoriMUl
Loan Si,884,644.75 flAT_. Cost of B m.f. FEE:
<PE: AMOUNT:
0 % differential)
'UJJMSE DRAWDOWN: If new or increased

facilities, is drawdown
permitted prior to
Working capital - funds already drawn. completion of security?
YES NO
r5RM OF FACILITIES: REVIEW 0ATES:
Extension for 6 months. 5th Feb '88
SOURCE O f R E P A Y M E N T :
Not stated.
SECURITY: If additional or cxiicng
facility, ii security in order?
Title Deeds to two drilling rigs
Security considered adequate. YES/WOt
If No, give details teparatcly.
3 A C K G R O U N D NOTE/
O U T L I N E OF PROPOSAL:
We nave been asked by G.M.C.T. to roll over capital plus interest for a period of 6 months.
The company is hopeful that the borrowing will be reduced within the extension period being
requested.
Extension recommended.
ReJgH^J Facilitiss Borrowers: CREDIT COMMITTEE »„ f y

ieT ^ or Limit, whichever is greater]
Minute. m (M*L Date .'S.....i5?...,t2..
John A. Masek $ 2.444.514.47
Recommended
BOARD ~
T
ACCOUNT NAME
)
CONTRACT DATE » 29FESR4 *
GUINNESS MAHON CAYMAN THIiST L T O
RE HAS6K ' ARRANGED BY t PHONE
REFERENCE N O . t 19B402Z9R30A
ACCOUNT N O . t 3154459
OtARSIR,
WE HAVE PLEASURE I N CONFIRMING YOUR D E P O S I T H I T H US AS D E T A I L SO M L O M .
P < t l W C I P A t - 1 ± L VALlfe DATE M A T U R I T Y BATE INTEREST AT flATU
USO 1.U1.52T.7B 11.00000000 i)7FFIM4 07FEHRS l S I w
* - l&NMii*MÔTCAVHAW TRUST LTD

: Wf P ^.(TOfctCARY
Tmmdm I
I LTD
IT
o
Ansbacher limited
4
/ s/ JsjjL \ A**™* PLC Onrn
I ''.
I- £. J ^ ^ A J / Please reply to: P.O. *» m, am* c»ymu, amu, wm i*iim
"V'^/V 42 Fitrwflliam Square,
V: ' Dublin 1 HUB dm MS-7M*
TbL- 765144/763065 (*»
Fax; 612035
29th August, 1990.
H. David Humphries, Bag.,
Senior Manager - Operations,
Guinness * Mahon Limited,
17 College Green,
DUBLIN 2.
Dear David,
I think my visit yesterday has finally sorted out the
outstanding points in your letter of the 13th Auguat.
(a) I left with you copy statement showing different
value dates re A$200,000. You will have adjusted,
(b) D.P.c. is opening a new A/A26 Sterling Account.
Someone will ring or his Secretary,
Mary, each Thursday morning giving a note of Interest
accrued.
(c) I went through with Martin the John Masek file, as a
result of which he ia letting me have some documentation.
(d) We agreed that you would eliminate "blocked account".
you will of course ensure that the various accounts
^ remain effectively blocked.
MSny thanks for your help,
yours sincerely.
J.D. Traynor.
JDT/AJW
¥
Appendix XV (88) (1) (f)
MEMORANDUM
To: Mr. J. D. Travnor. 25th June, 1985.
From: Pat O'Dwyer.
Kelly Driling/MaseV
Kelly Drilling Loan

SI, 261,925,69
l24°o
15th November, 1985
JOHN MASEK Si. 108,510.00

12%
7th February, 1986
S 652,240.59
14%
S 242,666.09
10.575%
I show above balance* of l o a n s ~ ^ H W M B No further developments
since the end of March. No reply received In answer to your letter dated 18th
April, 1985.
PO'D/SC
Appendix XV (89) Mr Basil Mawdsley
Basil Mawdsley.
a) Transcript of evidence of Mr Basil Mawdsley dated 28 November 2000.
b) Telefax of 23 March 1995 - Ansbacher Cayman Limited to Padraig

Collery.
c) Facsimile of 20 July 1994 - Joan Williams to Cayman International Bank

and Trust Company Limited.
d) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo of 27 November 1986 - JD Traynor

to Padraig Collery.
e) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo of 2 November 1984 - Joan

Williams to Padraig Collery.
f) Letter of 22 May 2000 - Basil Mawdsley to the Solicitor to the Inspectors.
g) Letter of 14 May 1982 - Joan Williams to B McL.
h) Guinness and Mahon statement of 31 January 1981 - GMCT re Coral.
i) Guinness and Mahon statement of 28 February 1981 - GMCT re Coral.
j) Guinness and Mahon statement of 20 March 1981 - GMCT re Coral.
k) Letter of 19 March 1982 - JD traynor to Basil Mawdsley.
1) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo of 16 February 1982 - Joan Williams

to Padraig Collery.
m) Statement of account of 15 July 1981 addressed to Basil Mawdsley.
n) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo of 5 January 1982 - JD Traynor to

Padraig Collery.
o) Statement of a/c of 1 December 1995 with handwritten ledger statement re

A/A 15 of 2 May 1997.
p) Statement of Hamilton Ross account A/A dated 2 May 1997.

PRIVATE EXAMINATION OF MR. BASIL MAWDSLEY
UNDER OATH
ON TUESDAY, 28TH NOVEMBER 2000
Stenographer
PRESENT
The Inspectors: MR. ROWAN FCA
MS. MACKEY BL
Interviewee: MR. BASIL MAWDSLEY

I N D E X
WITNESS EXAMINATION PAGE
MR. B. MAWDSLEY MS. MACKEY 5 - 37
MR. ROWAN 38 -
MS. MACKEY 49 - 50
1 THE INTERVIEW COMMENCED ON TUESDAY, 28TH NOVEMBER
2 2 000, AS FOLLOWS
4 MS. MACKEY: Perhaps, we could get
5 underway now?
6 MR. ROWAN: Yes. Mr. Mawdsley, my
7 name is Paul Rowan. This
8 is my fellow Inspector, Ms. Noreen Mackey. You have
9 already met our solicitor, Ms. Mary Cummins.
10 MR. MAWDSLEY: Yes.
11 MR. ROWAN: At the outset, I would
12 like to explain that this
13 is not a court or a Tribunal -- it is an interview
14 -- so that we would be posing questions of you. If
15 you at any stage need time to think about the answer
16 or to refer to a document, please ask us to allow
17 you to do that.
18 MR. MAWDSLEY: Right.
19 MR. ROWAN: We are going to keep a
20 record of the interview so
21 that at some stage later you will be given an
22 opportunity to consider the written record and in
23 due course, perhaps, to sign it.
24 MR. MAWDSLEY: Okay.
25 MR. ROWAN: So with that introduction,
26 Ms. Mackey would like to
27 ask you some questions.
28 MS. MACKEY: We will just ask
29 you, Mr. Mawdsley to take
4
1 the oath, perhaps, first?
2 MR. ROWAN: Yes, indeed.
5 MR. MAWDSLEY, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY
6 MS. MACKEY AS FOLLOWS
8 1 Q. MS. MACKEY: Now, Mr. Mawdsley, you
9 sent us a statement, which
10 is helpful. Do you have a copy of it with you?
11 A. Yes, I have got it somewhere in here.
12 2 Q. We can give you a copy...(INTERJECTION)
13 A. No, it's alright.
14 3 Q. I will in due course...(INTERJECTION)
15 A. I have the original somewhere.
16 4 Q. In due course, I will go through that.
17 A. Yes.
18 5 Q. Now, just for the record, before we begin to go into
19 that, if you could give me a little background about
20 yourself, Mr. Mawdsley and your career. Are you
21 still in business or are you retired?
22 A. No, I retired from commercial business in the late
23 80 ' s .
24 6 Q. What was your business prior to that?
25 A. I was the last group finance director of the House
26 of Fraser group which has come into prominence
27 because of, firstly, the DTI Inquiry into whether it
28 was their money or the Sultan of Brunei's money and
29 various antics of Mohammed A1 Fayed wanting British
5
1 citizenship subsequent to the late Princess of Wales
2 and his son being killed in Paris.
3 7 Q. So you were a group director?
4 A. Yes, I was a group director prior to it losing its
5 independence. I was actually there before, during,
6 and after the bid.
7 8 Q. Had you other business interests prior to that or
8 during that?
9 A. No.
10 9 Q. Any other companies with which you are connected?
11 A. No, I was a group director and responsible for, you
12 know, the whole span of things.
13 10 Q. Were you on the board of any other companies?
14 A. No. I was on the board of one or two major
15 subsidiaries.
16 11 Q. Can you give me the names of those?
17 A. Yes, House of Fraser Stall. That was a major
18 subsidiary. I wasn't a director of Harrods. And
19 one or two of the smaller ones because they got rid
20 of shareholding belonging to LONRHO.
21 12 Q. So you were a director of about three companies or
22 four?
23 A. Well, my principal job was group finance director.
24 That usually involves you being involved with some
25 of the major subsidiaries; not necessarily as a
26 director -- you may sit on the management committees
27 or whatever structure they may choose to adopt.
28 This isn't unusual for somebody in my sort of
29 position.
1 13 Q. Presently, you are retired since the 1980's?
2 A. Yes, in the early 90's, I did a quango type job. I
3 was a deputy director of the Heritage Memorial Fund
4 which has been subsumed into the Lottery, which is,
5 in money terms, quite vast compared with the sort of
6 thing I was dealing with.
7 14 Q. That is fine for the background, Mr. Mawdsley. So,
8 maybe, we can get down to the actual statement
9 (EXHIBIT 1) and what we are looking at at the
10 moment. As you know, we are investigating the
11 affairs of Ansbacher Cayman, Cayman Island Company,
12 which was operating in Ireland to an extent. This
13 company was also known as Guinness Mahon Cayman
14 Trust during the 1980's. It may be by that name
15 that you are familiar with it?
16 A. No, I didn't hear about it. I knew Guinness Mahon
17 in...(INTERJECTION).
18 15 Q. Well, we will come to that. Perhaps, you would like
19 to...(INTERJECTION)?
20 A. You know, where it started -- what it
21 then...(INTERJECTION).
22 16 Q. Yes. If I could just ask you specific questions, we
23 can probably get through the whole thing fairly
24 quickly. You start off your statement (EXHIBIT 1)
25 by saying that you met Mr. Traynor occasionally from
26 1973 to the late 80' s. Can you tell me how you
27 first met Mr. Traynor?
28 A. Yes, I met him in the context of disposing of some
29 shares. It would, frankly, be petty cash terms in
7
1 today's sort of money -- 20 odd years ago.
2 17 Q. How did you meet him? Who introduced you?
3 A. I think he introduced himself.
4 18 Q. Where was this or how did you come across him?
5 A. Well, I was then a director of another group, not
6 Fraser, which had...(INTERJECTION).
7 19 Q. What group was that?
8 A. It is called Tunnel.
9 20 Q. Tunnel?
10 A. T-u-n-n-e-1, yes.
11 21 Q. Tunnel Holdings?
12 A. It later became Tunnel Holdings. It was at that
13 time Tunnel Cement Limited.
14 22 Q. What was Tunnel?
15 A. Exactly what it says. It had three cement works in
16 Britain. It made asbestos cement products, which in
17 those days were considered legit before the asbestos
18 scare, you know.
19 23 Q. Yes?
20 A. And a variety of minor investments here and there.
21 24 Q. So you were a director of this Tunnel Company?
22 A. Yes.
23 25 Q. Tunnel as it was then?
24 A. And it held a small percentage, but a significant
25 percentage, in Cement Roadstone Holdings as it then
26 was -- CRH as it has now become.
27 26 Q. Roughly, what percentage did it hold?
28 A. I can't remember, frankly, but it was probably
29 something of the order of three to five percent.
8
1 27 Q. Right.
2 28 Q. Tunnel was repositioning itself. It had got into
3 deep financial straits. It had overspent on a major
4 project. It is not an unfamiliar story because the
5 controls were inadequate and unauthorized additional
6 costs were being incurred down the line instead of,
7 you know, the top Board being consulted about
8 whether they wanted to commit themselves to whatever
9 it was -- huge amounts of money. So it was up
10 against its banking limits.
11 29 Q. Was it in this context that you came in contact with
12 Mr. Traynor?
13 A. There was a debenture that also prescribed financial
14 constraints. We were in some danger of sort of
15 bumping on the ceiling.
16 30 Q. Could we, without getting into too much
17 detail...(INTERJECTION)?
18 A. No, I am trying to explain the next step in which
19 Mr. Traynor appeared was necessary. We had to
20 realise something. This was one of the things that
21 was ready money, frankly. It was a listed company.
22 I can't remember what we got for the shares. It was
23 in the low millions.
24 31 Q. So you were selling the shares in Tunnel?
25 A. No, not in Tunnel. Tunnel shares in CRH were sold
26 to raise money for the regeneration needs of Tunnel
27 Cement, as it then was -- with one or two others, I
28 have to say. They weren't alone in it.
29 32 Q. In the context of selling CRH's shares, how did you
9
1 actually meet Mr. Traynor?
2 A. I can't remember who did it or when or how but I am
3 quite sure in those days it would -- it might not
4 happen in quite as friendly a manner these days but
5 there would have been some intimation to CRH that we
6 were getting out of this thing and why. Their
7 people, you know, were periodically, as was Des
8 Traynor, at various conferences on the construction
9 industry and on this, that, and the other which are
10 frequently held -- still are. He made himself known
11 to me because I was given a job of getting rid of
12 these things.
13 33 Q. So was Mr. Traynor at that time a director of CRH --
14 of Cement Roadstone Holdings?
15 A. I don't know was he a director of it but, certainly,
16 I was obviously satisfied that he was speaking in an
17 authenticated manner on behalf of the CRH Board.
18 The plea, in short, was that instead of hauling them
19 around, which they preferred we didn't, we would ask
20 our brokers to liaise with -- I think it was him --
21 to see that they were sold to what are known as
22 friendly hands.
23 34 Q. Perhaps, if we could short-circuit this a little
24 bit, Mr. Mawdsley. If I can ask you some specific
25 questions rather than get...(INTERJECTION)?
26 A. That is how I met Des Traynor.
27 35 Q. You met him on that occasion?
28 A. And I arranged that our brokers...(INTERJECTION).
29 36 Q. Sorry, I don't want to interrupt you, Mr. Mawdsley,

1 but I would like to ask you specific questions, if I
2 might?
3 A. Specific -- fire away.
4 37 Q. You met him, anyway, in 1973 as a result of the sale
5 of these shares?
6 A. No, I would say late 70's. I can't be specific.
7 38 Q. Well, you say in your statement (EXHIBIT 1) that you
8 knew him from 73...(INTERJECTION)?
9 A. Yes, I am guessing. But it was probably in the
10 middle to second half of the 70's.
11 39 Q. When you sold the shares?
12 A. I can't be exact about it.
13 40 Q. On that occasion, did he mention to you that he had
14 this offshore vehicle?
15 A. No.
16 41 Q. Did you keep in contact with him after that?
17 A. No, I don't think he did. We met each other now and
18 then.
19 42 Q. How did that arise?
20 A. At various sort of industry things, you know?
21 A. Yes?
22 A. He had said to me at some stage that because he
23 understood why we were getting out of CRH, he
24 understood what the group were trying to do. Part
25 of my job was looking for the relevant acquisitions
26 or developments to get away from, basically, the
27 commercial problems that had caused Tunnel to get
28 into difficulties.
29 43 Q. When did he first mention this offshore vehicle, do

1 you know?
2 A. I would guess it was about 20 years ago.
3 44 Q. Can you tell me exactly what he said on that
4 occasion?
5 A. I think I had dinner with him in a hotel somewhere
6 around Grosvenor Square.
7 45 Q. Well, your location does not matter. What did he
8 actually say?
9 A. No, no, he used this place, I think, regularly.
10 46 Q. What did he actually say to you?
11 A. We were talking about all sorts of things. He said:
12 'If you ever want to shelter anything, just have a
13 word with me and I might be able to help you' or
14 words to that effect.
15 47 Q. What did you understand by that -- if you want to
16 shelter anything?
17 A. Well, anything outside the UK.
18 48 Q. But shelter from what?
19 A. UK tax.
20 49 Q. That is what you understood that to mean?
21 A. Oh, yes.
22 50 Q. And he said that?
23 A. He knew what he was saying, yes.
24 51 Q. Did he describe to you the means by which this could
25 be done?
26 A. No, but having read all this -- I mean there are
27 more legs on this than there are on a cupboard full
28 of spiders.
29 52 Q. Forgetting for the moment what you now know, what
12
1 did he actually tell you at that time apart
2 from...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. He said something like, you know: We have got
4 companies all over the place. I think at some stage
5 there was a mention of exchange controls in Eire,
6 which I wasn't aware of then and I can't remember
7 what they are now.
8 53 Q. Did he mention the Cayman Islands as being the
9 location?
10 A. No.
11 54 Q. Did he mention the Channel Islands?
12 A. No.
13 55 Q. He did say it was offshore however, did he?
14 A. The inference was that it was offshore the UK. That
15 didn't necessarily mean it was outside Eire.
16 56 Q. Did he mention that it would be connected with a
17 subsidiary of the bank with which he was connected
18 in Ireland, Guinness Mahon?
19 A. No.
20 57 Q. Did he mention that at all?
21 A. Well, he said we have companies, you know, doing
22 this, that, and the other all over -- that can do
23 anything.
24 58 Q. You understood he was connected with the bank in
25 Ireland?
26 A. Oh, absolutely, yes.
27 59 Q. Now, did he discuss the setting up of a trust with
28 you?
29 A. No, nothing about trusts, back-to-back loans which,
13
1 frankly, in a professional sense, I wouldn't touch
2 with a ten foot pole because...(INTERJECTION).
3 60 Q. So he didn't mention trusts?
4 A. No.
5 61 Q. He didn't suggest that you could set up a
6 discretionary trust?
7 A. No, nothing like that.
8 62 Q. Did he suggest that you could set up an offshore
9 company or that he would set one up for you?
10 A. No.
11 63 Q. He didn't?
12 A. He was a banker. You know, every banking group has
13 got... Maybe, not everyone in those days but,
14 certainly, most banking groups now have got
15 facilities in Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of
16 Man...(INTERJECTION).
17 64 Q. Can I refer you again to your statement (EXHIBIT 1)
18 here, the second paragraph, Mr. Mawdsley. You said
19 you gained from him...
20 "I then gained from him the strong

impression that it was held by an
21 offshore Guinness Mahon subsidiary"
22
23 A. Yes .
24 65 Q. Now, prior to that you said in the previous sentence
25 you had money paid directly to an account number he
26 provided at Guinness Mahon?
27 A. Yes, I have sent you details of this. You have got
28 copies of both the original and...(INTERJECTION).
29 66 Q. I know we have the documents. When did he give you

1 this account number?
2 A. It must have been about 20 years ago.
3 67 Q. So when you had this discussion with him in London,
4 was all this arranged at that meeting or did you
5 have a meeting specifically to set it up
6 subsequently?
7 A. No, it was just an offer he made. We were talking
8 about all sorts of...(INTERJECTION).
9 68 Q. When did you take up that offer?
10 A. Again, I would say about 20 years ago.
11 69 Q. So...(INTERJECTION)
12 A. There was a gap...(INTERJECTION).
13 70 Q. We are talking about the 1980's?
14 A. If you are trying to determine were the two things
15 coincidental
16 71 Q. Yes?
17 A. The answer is no. I knew they had this facility and
18 I can't tell you how soon after hearing about it I
19 actually took it up. It is twenty-something years
20 ago.
21 72 Q. So, in fact, some time passed by and then was it you
22 who decided yourself: Yes, I will avail of this; I
23 will contact Mr. Traynor?
24 A. Yes.
25 73 Q. So you contacted him in Dublin?
26 A. Yes.
27 74 Q. Did you arrange to meet him on that occasion?
28 A. I don't think so.
29 75 Q. So did you transact your business on the phone then?
15
1 A. Yes, I told him simplistically I wish to avail
2 myself of this particular feature and it went from
3 there.
4 76 Q. What I want now is to get details of how it went
5 from there. I mean, what...(INTERJECTION)?
6 A. I caused money to be paid to whatever account he
7 told me.
8 77 Q. I understand that but I want to find out exactly how
9 this happened. When you spoke to him on the phone
10 you said: I want to avail of the offer. You
11 referred to the previous conversation, I suppose,
12 that you had had and you said you would like to
13 avail of this. So did you say: I have X amount of
14 funds that I wish to place in this...(INTERJECTION)?
15 A. Well, I said some money could be paid into it.
16 78 Q. What did he say then you should do?
17 A. He gave me some banking directions. I don't know
18 whether there was a clearing number but, certainly,
19 there would be an account number. You know, it is
20 like paying an electricity bill. You have to pay it
21 into a certain code with an account number.
22 79 Q. So he gave you all this on the telephone?
23 A. Yes, I think so. I don't recall actually getting it
24 on paper.
25 80 Q. Was the account number that he gave you in a bank in
26 London?
27 A. I have no idea. It is an account number on a bit of
28 paper. You know, he was a banker...(INTERJECTION)
29 81 Q. He was, but I...(INTERJECTION)

1 A. What went on behind the scenes...(INTERJECTION).
2 82 Q. What did you do, though, with the funds? Did you
3 bring them into a bank somewhere or did you send
4 them to him or did you go to meet him?
5 A. I have said I caused them to be paid to wherever he
6 suggested.
7 83 Q. Yes, but how did you cause them? Did you just do it
8 by bank transfer?
9 A. Yes, it was paid by a bank transfer of some sort,
10 yes .
11 84 Q. So you went to your own bank, which was where?
12 A. No.
13 85 Q. So what did you do?
14 A. I instructed the source of this money to pay it to
15 wherever Des Traynor told me.
16 86 Q. So the funds were already offshore; was that the
17 situation? And you instructed them to be moved to
18 the...(INTERJECTION)?
19 A. Yes. It is no different from sending, you know,
20 £1,000 to somewhere if you are going on holiday.
21 87 Q. I understand, yes. I wanted to see whether it was a
22 question of meeting Des Traynor and physically
23 giving him funds or not?
24 A. No, I didn't hand any money over like that.
25 88 Q. You say you had it paid directly to an account
26 number he provided at Guinness Mahon. Was that
27 Guinness Mahon in Dublin or Guinness Mahon & Co. in
28 London?
29 A. I couldn't tell you but I suspect in the

1 circumstances it must have been the main Dublin Bank
2 89 Q. Branch.
3 A. Guinness & Mahon Ltd. Ireland...(INTERJECTION)
4 90 Q. College Green, yes.
5 A. ...or whatever it was called then, which they
6 shifted out to something else, evidently.
7 91 Q. Well, no, they didn't shift it. It stayed in Dublin
8 but they had a subsidiary in the Caymans.
9 A. Yes, that is what I meant. They transferred it, it
10 seems now in retrospect...(INTERJECTION)
11 92 Q. Transferred the money?
12 A. They transferred offshore from Ireland into one of
13 these innumerable outfits.
14 93 Q. You then say that you gained from him the strong
15 impression that it was held by an offshore Guinness
16 Mahon subsidiary?
17 A. Yes .
18 94 Q. So you, apparently, did gain that impression at the
19 time?
20 A. Well, that was the inference when he mentioned it
21 for the first time when we met for a meal somewhere.
22 95 Q. So you weren't under the illusion that it was going
23 to be in Dublin?
24 A. No, no. I mean, it was clear that this little
25 banking group -- and I don't even know who owned it
26 at the time -- had various parking places, let's
27 say.
28 96 Q. Yes, around the world.
29 A. And the Dublin office clearly was a front or
18
1 conduit, if you like. What went on from Dublin
2 backwards, I was not privy to. I trusted him by
3 then and that was it.
4 97 Q. You also say that you understood that by prior
5 arrangement cash could be drawn from this offshore
6 subsidiary. Now, what gave you that understanding?
7 A. He told me that.
8 98 Q. What did Mr. Traynor say?
9 A. He said you can have a cash advance which will
10 filter through to where the account actually is.
11 99 Q. So just to be clear what he said to you, did you
12 understand that he would advance you money from
13 Dublin?
14 A. No, he could arrange that an element of whatever was
15 where could be made available in the UK.
16 100 Q. In the UK?
17 A. Yes .
18 101 Q. Did he explain how that could be done?
19 A. Yes, I wish to tell him if I wanted something and he
20 would tell me where to collect it.
21 102 Q. You didn't know how he was managing to have it there
22 in that place, did you?
23 A. Well, it was clearly netted off where-ever this
24 basic deposit was lying at the time through the
25 internal books of Guinness Mahon. All groups have
26 intra group transactions between the various
27 subsidiaries. This is no different.
28 103 Q. So he told you that if you wished to do this you
29 should contact him?

1 A. Yes.
2 104 Q. Did you, in fact, do this from time to time?
3 A. Yes.
4 105 Q. Would you contact him by phone or would you write to
5 him or...(INTERJECTION)?
6 A. No, I am almost certain it was entirely by phone. I
7 only met him, you know, four or five times in my
8 life.
9 106 Q. So you would contact him or you would speak to his
10 secretary, Ms. Williams?
11 A. And ask him to ring me.
12 107 Q. You would explain to him what you required at that
13 time?
14 A. Yes.
15 108 Q. What would happen then? Would he tell you where it
16 could be collected or?
17 A. Yes.
18 109 Q. Would it be lodged to your account in your own bank
19 or how would it be done?
20 A. No, I collected it in cash from only two addresses.
21 One was a Guinness Mahon office.
22 110 Q. In London?
23 A. In the city.
24 111 Q. Can you remember the address of that office?
25 A. Is it St. Mary's Hill or something like that.
26 112 Q. St. Mary's Hill, you think it was, in London?
27 A. Yes.
28 113 Q. That was one address; where was the second?
29 A. The other one was Ansbacher's own bank near the -- I
20
1 think it is Mitre Square.
2 114 Q. Ansbacher itself?
3 A. Yes .
4 115 Q. You would go there. Would you introduce yourself?
5 Was there someone you had to meet or how was it
6 done?
7 A. It worked that it would be convenient, say, a week
8 today, you know, at eleven o'clock if I was in the
9 city or near the city to go and see whoever he told
10 me to and that was it.
11 116 Q. He would give you a name?
12 A. Yes .
13 117 Q. Can you recollect the names of the people?
14 A. No, I can't.
15 118 Q. Either of them or any of them?
16 A. No, the original arrangement was that it was in an
17 envelope and I produced something to say who I was
18 and I asked for an envelope and that was it. I
19 turned up at the office and produced some recognised
20 piece of identification.
21 119 Q. And an envelope with cash was provided?
22 A. Whatever I had asked Des Traynor to provide
23 appeared. A similar system worked at Ansbacher's.
24 120 Q. I see?
25 A. But I am blowed if I remember the name
26 of...(INTERJECTION)
27 121 Q. The person.
28 A. I am not too sure if it is the same person all the
29 time.
1 122 Q. It may not have been. You can't remember any name
2 of anyone at all?
3 A. No, and I haven't got a note to tell me either.
4 123 Q. Never mind?
5 A. That is what makes me think it probably varied from
6 transaction to transaction.
7 124 Q. Probably, yes.
8 A. There weren't that many occasions.
9 125 Q. But, essentially, you had to identify yourself and
10 an envelope would be provided with your name on it?
11 A. Yes, it wasn't a pressure matter for me. You know,
12 I could fit in with... He was occasionally away or
13 out of the country. He travelled, at times, quite
14 extensively and I just waited until he was back.
15 126 Q. During all that period when you were able to
16 withdraw money when you wished, did you make any
17 further lodgments to this account?
18 A. Yes, I had some money going into it.
19 127 Q. On a regular basis?
20 A. From time to time. Look, we are taking a turn into
21 something I, maybe, should have raised at first.
22 128 Q. Yes?
23 A. That, on advice, I wish to take advantage of the
24 offer in paragraph 1 of your letter (EXHIBIT 2) to
25 me of whatever it was -- 4th May -- to erase from
26 any documents and records some of this information
27 that we are getting into now. The fact is I have
28 told you that I had money paid into an offshore
29 account. I have told you how it was
22
1 offered/originated and the mechanism by which it
2 worked.
3 129 Q. Yes, that's right?
4 A. I have not had any money paid into that for a
5 considerable number of years.
6 130 Q. Fine -- that's grand.
7 A. And can we leave it at that.
8 131 Q. Yes .
9 A. May I have your undertaking that...(INTERJECTION).
10 132 Q. I'm sorry, I don't understand.
11 A. In the event that any of this comes out that the
12 information in my statement relating to the account
13 I may have received or endured etc. etc. will be
14 expunged from the documents and records
15 and...(INTERJECTION).
16 133 Q. I am afraid we can't give any such undertaking. Are
17 you reading something from the letter we wrote to
18 you there?
19 A. Yes .
20 134 Q. Maybe, I am misunderstanding you. I think that was
21 simply that you needn't give us information as to
22 figures ?
23 A. Well, I haven't.
24 135 Q. Is all that that we...
25 A. If it is good enough to admit from an unsworn
26 statement, it should be good enough to admit from a
27 sworn one.
28 136 Q. I am afraid we can't erase anything that you say
29 here today. You don't have to give us any figures
23
1 whatsoever. It is simply figures we are talking
2 about but I am not asking you to...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. I am confirming the fact that there were more than
4 one...(INTERJECTION).
5 137 Q. Lodgment.
6 A. Lodgment in...(INTERJECTION)
7 138 Q. I am not asking you at all for...(INTERJECTION)?
8 A. Wherever it went to, you know?
9 139 Q. Of course.
10 A. It seems to me it has probably been in two places,
11 the second one being where it would be now if...
12 140 Q. Yes. Is that account still in existence?
13 A. Yes. Well, it is...(INTERJECTION).
14 141 Q. You haven't closed it?
15 A. No, I have not touched it. I have not been in touch
16 with these people since about 1995 and I became a
17 pension, a legal pension -- a State pensioner in
18 1995 and I took the view that I should get my
19 affairs in an orderly state. Amongst them was this
20 but I can't remember -- can you tell me when
21 Mr. Traynor actually died.
22 142 Q. In 1994.
23 A. Well, that explains it because I found myself
24 talking to people who didn't know what I was asking.
25 143 Q. Well, you were put, I think, in touch with
26 Mr. Collery, as you tell us here?
27 A. I then found Mr. Collery, yes. He subsequently
28 disappeared from the number at which I customarily
29 called Des Traynor. It has been static from the
24
1 early 1990's.
2 144 Q. Do you intend to do anything about it or what is the
3 present situation?
4 A. Well, I will take a view on that when I know that it
5 is freed from the Haughey Lowry Inquiry.
6 145 Q. Well, our one is different. We are not the Haughey
7 Lowry Inquiry.
8 A. Yes, I know, but this has come out of this. I do
9 not know the extent to which you have seen the
10 papers from this relating to the questions I have
11 been asked. But I have denied any connection with
12 Hamilton Ross, Ansbacher Cayman, which I didn't know
13 about until very recently -- formerly Guinness Mahon
14 Cayman Trust. Overseas nominees, Ansbacher Cayman
15 and Hamilton Ross -- that was another letter about
16 these things, the proposed order against the Bank of
17 Ireland.
18 14 6 Q. We understand you don't know anything about any of
19 those?
20 A. No.
21 147 Q. You have explained to us that you understood that
22 this was being sheltered -- that that was the
23 purpose of the whole thing?
24 A. Well, that was very clear.
25 148 Q. Can I take it then that, in fact, you did not
26 disclose the interest that accrued on this fund?
27 A. I didn't remit any interest to the UK.
28 149 Q. Fine. Well, those are all the facts that we need to
29 get, Mr. Mawdsley. There are just a number of small
25
1 things that I wanted to go through with you arising
2 from documents and so on you sent us just to clear
3 up odds and ends?
4 A. Yes .
5 150 Q. I think we have actually covered most of them...
6 Yes, can you tell me anything about a company called
7 Coral?
8 A. It is a bookmaking business in Britain but I don't
9 think that is the sort of answer you want.
10 151 Q. No, I don't think that is the Coral I am talking
11 about. Coral in connection with your own account?
12 A. No, I know nothing about Coral.
13 152 Q. You know nothing about it?
14 A. No, as I said in the letter, most of these names,
15 you know, are completely foreign to me.
16 153 Q. Can I ask you to look at a document, Mr. Mawdsley.
17 This is an internal Guinness Mahon memo (EXHIBIT 3).
18 A. Yes .
19 154 Q. You see there it is dated 14th May 1982. It is
20 A.J.W, which is Joan Williams, to B.McL. I am not
21 sure who B.McL is but it is some official in
22 Guinness and Mahon:
23 "I have today received a request from

Mr. Mawdsley that we
24 transfer...(INTERJECTION)"
25
26 A. Yes, okay.
27 155 Q. And you see the...(INTERJECTION)
28 A. Yes .
29 156 Q. Now:
1 "...and indicated as being for credit
of account (Mr. Mawdsley). If
2 possible, it would be appreciated if
this could be sent to..."
3
4 We will just wait a moment because there is some
5 coffee coming in.
6 A. Sure. This is a short-term...(INTERJECTION)
7 157 Q. We will just wait a moment.
8 A. But I have never heard of Coral.
9 158 Q. Now, we had intended initially to break for coffee
10 but I don't think there is any need because we are
11 pretty near the end so we will just have coffee
12 while we are going on if that is alright with you?
13 A. Do continue, please.
14 159 Q. And we can finish quicker. Now, I was asking you
15 about a company called Coral, Mr. Mawdsley, and here
16 we have an internal message from Guinness and Mahon
17 (EXHIBIT 3) saying that you have requested transfer
18 of funds to a particular place and these funds, the
19 memo notes, are to be debited to Guinness Mahon
20 Cayman Trust account re Coral ?
21 A. I am sorry, I can't...(INTERJECTION).
22 160 Q. It appears to be that you are directing money to be
23 debited to that particular account?
24 A. Yes, I do not know what it was. This is news to me.
25 I have never seen Coral. I don't recognize any of
26 these numbers.
27 161 Q. Can you recollect this transfer or what Bache Halsey
28 Stuart Shields Inc...(INTERJECTION)?
29 A. Yes, it was a short-term investment.

1 162 Q. So this, certainly, is connected with you?
2 A. Yes .
3 163 Q. But you cannot explain the debit to Guinness Mahon
4 Cayman Trust?
5 A. No, no, this is behind the front that only
6 Mr. Traynor knew what was behind it. I knew nothing
7 about where it went or the name of the companies.
8 164 Q. Can I just show you a couple of statements of
9 Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust account. It is Tab 5.
10 A. I should make it clear that I never had a regular
11 statement from them.
12 165 Q. Yes. Well, that would be par for the course. Now,
13 these are statements from Guinness Mahon itself in
14 Dublin. You will see up in the top right-hand
15 corner the address of the bank (EXHIBIT 4).
16 A. Yes .
17 166 Q. But it is the account of Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust
18 Ltd. re Coral?
19 A. Designated Coral.
20 167 Q. And it is in US Dollars?
21 A. Yes .
22 168 Q. Did you have a US Dollar account?
23 A. Yes, I think one thing Des Traynor offered was
24 because of various investment lines Tunnel was
25 following, some of which were in the States -- it is
26 the biggest free market -- don't forget this is 20
27 years ago. The USSR hadn't collapsed and all the
28 rest of it. It is a very different commercial world
29 from what it is today. I remember he used to have a
28
1 question for training courses to deal with if I lend
2 you some money in US Dollars, what are you going to
3 put it into because I want it back in US Dollars but
4 you have got to make something on it in the
5 meantime.
6 169 Q. So you had foreign currency accounts?
7 A. No, I knowingly changed, I think, Sterling into US
8 Dollars at some stage because it came out of a
9 conversation he and I had about the relative
10 strengths and weaknesses of Sterling versus the US
11 Dollar or the other way around -- I can't remember
12 which way it went anyway. The conclusion had some
13 bearing on what I did with whatever was in here.
14 This is some time ago, isn't it.
15 170 Q. Would you accept now that, in fact, this account in
16 the name of Coral is, in fact, your account?
17 A. Yes, but I was not aware of that at the time.
18 171 Q. I understand you weren't aware at the time?
19 A. Of the internal designation these things carry.
20 172 Q. Of course. Now, can I ask you to look at another
21 document — 59 and 60 (EXHIBIT 5)?
22 A. One of these appendices does actually recite fairly
23 comprehensively the... It is page 12 of C, I think,
24 that is.
25 173 Q. Our letter (EXHIBIT 2)?
26 A. Yes, the attachment to it. The preamble to
27 paragraph 2 really is most pertinent to this. I
28 have never heard of Amien Securities or all that lot
29 -- Kentford and so on and so forth.
29
1 174 Q. We understand that. I understand absolutely that
2 you haven't heard of any of those names. I would
3 like you to look at this letter now, Mr. Mawdsley,
4 which is to you from Mr. Traynor on 19th March 1982.
5 Just have a read of it there (EXHIBIT 5)?
6 A. 1982 — wow.
7 175 Q. Now, there he is saying that he is sending you
8 statements for both Sterling and Dollar accounts?
9 A. Well, I must have had some in each is all I can say.
10 You know, he was a professional banker; I used to
11 listen to what he was saying.
12 176 Q. That actually isn't going to be my question at all.
13 My question then relates to the statement of the
14 Sterling account which you see on the next page?
15 A. Yes .
16 177 Q. You see you have a lodgment. I am not dealing with
17 the figures now at all; we needn't be concerned with
18 the figures. 'Lodged' -- but then we have 'From
19 Joint Account'. So there is a lodgment from a joint
20 account into the Sterling account?
21 A. I haven't the faintest idea what it means.
22 178 Q. I think there are a few more documents dealing with
23 the same thing that might assist you?
24 A. There must have been some reason why he sent this.
25 179 Q. There must, indeed?
26 A. ...Which escapes me now. You know, it is 19 years
27 ago.
28 180 Q. If you look at page 67 and 68?
29 A. Yes, I did buy some shares through this thing. I
30
1 can't remember what and I can't remember what
2 happened to them.
3 181 Q. Now, if you look at these documents, which appear to
4 be statements of your account, you see there the one
5 with 67 at the bottom (EXHIBIT 6)?
6 A. It looks as though half the... Yes.
7 182 Q. Yes, again we have Dollars and Sterling but then we
8 have a thing headed 'Joint Account'; do you see that
9 at page 68?
10 A. I haven't the faintest idea what that means.
11 183 Q. We have a lodgment; we have interest; and then we
12 have split half and half each. So this seems to be
13 talking about two persons, one of which appears to
14 be yourself. Can you give me any assistance as to
15 who the second person is?
16 A. No, I can't. I have never seen this.
17 184 Q. Do you recollect having an account together with
18 somebody else?
19 A. No.
20 185 Q. You have no recollection of that?
21 A. No, I have never had a joint account.
22 186 Q. With anybody?
23 A. In the context of this at all.
24 187 Q. Well, it may not have been in the context of this so
25 much as that money from a joint account which may
26 have been somewhere else was being lodged to your
27 Ansbacher account. Could it have any relation to
28 Tunnel Holdings at all that you can recollect?
29 A. No. You see, it says 'Repaid' -- 'Converted to

1 Sterling and Repaid'.
2 188 Q. Which year are you looking at now?
3 A. I am looking at this thing that starts 11th December
4 1980.
5 189 Q. Where is this?
6 A. Page 2 of this.
7 190 Q. Repaid?
8 MS. CUMMINS: Page 67.
9 191 Q. MS. MACKEY: Oh, yes. No, it is really
10 the next document that I
11 am more interested in but you can't assist me on
12 this joint account?
13 A. No, I can't think what this means, frankly, 'and
14 repaid'. But never mind -- it is, as I say, 20
15 years ago.
16 192 Q. Could we have a look at page 63 now? Now, could you
17 look at that document which is another internal memo
18 from Joan Williams to, this time, D.P.C. who is
19 Mr. Collery. This is February 1982?
20 A. Yes.
21 193 Q. Now, here we have two amounts in US Dollars being
22 transferred to a bank in New York for credit of
23 Domnick Investors Corporation account. Can you tell
24 me anything about that?
25 A. No, I have never heard of it.
26 194 Q. It is to be credited to your account and to the
27 account of a Mr. JD Birkin. Does that ring any
28 bell?
29 A. I do not recall the transaction at all.
32
1 195 Q. Do you recall Mr. Birkin?
2 A. Oh, yes, I know Mr. Birkin.
3 196 Q. Could that be the joint account referred to?
4 A. It is conceivable.
5 197 Q. Now, the reason I enquire into this is because of
6 the final paragraph in the same document where it
7 says one amount -- and it mentions the amount --
8 should be debited to
9 G.M.C.T...(INTERJECTION)(EXHIBIT 7)
10 A. Yes, I can see that.
11 198 Q. And the other to another G.M.C.T Account?
12 A. 15816 -- is that this one or not? Yes, it is.
13 199 Q. So one of these accounts was yours; is that correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 200 Q. Which is the 15816?
16 A. Yes, that's right.
17 201 Q. The other is the account of another person?
18 A. Yes.
19 202 Q. That's fine; we needn't bother any more with that.
20 Can I ask you to look at page 64 then which Ms.
21 Cummins will give you now again (EXHIBIT 8). Again,
22 it is an internal memo from, this time, Mr. Traynor
23 himself, J.D.T, to P.O.D who is a Mr. O'Dwyer, a
24 banking loans manager in Guinness & Mahon. This, on
25 the face of it, doesn't appear to have anything to
26 do with you. It says:
27 "Could you please arrange to let me

have a Sterling draft for..."
28
29 And it mentions figures.
33
1 "...payable to H.H. Draycott and debit
G.M.C.T. A/A4."
2
3 But then down at the bottom we have in handwriting
4 'Posted to Mr. Mawdsley', which is the reason I am
5 asking you about it. Do you know anything about a
6 H.H Draycott?
7 A. Yes, I know who Draycott is. He was the director of
8 a group that had a stake in Tunnel.
9 203 Q. Yes. What group was that?
10 A. It was called Thomas W. Ward. It actually made a
11 take-over bid for Tunnel.
12 204 Q. Thomas W. Ward?
13 A. Yes, it does not exist any more.
14 205 Q. Can you throw any light then on this document?
15 A. No, I can't. I can't think why I have a £57.44...
16 I went through these gyrations to get money to
17 somebody who I saw on a fairly regular basis.
18 206 Q. But can this be a payment from you, do you think?
19 A. I haven't the faintest idea.
20 207 Q. It refers to a Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust A/A4
21 account; is that yours?
22 A. No, I don't think it is. This is why I am bemused
23 by this. Out of the other inquiry has come this,
24 which I sent to you.
25 208 Q. Yes?
26 A. I am challenging Mr. Davis' reasons for identifying
27 me with this because it looks about right. But it
28 is A/A15. Now, that implies there are A/Al to 14 in
29 front of me, does it not?

1 209 Q. Well, it may well imply that but they would be
2 different people?
3 A. It doesn't even say which bank it is at. None of
4 this stuff I sent to you has any origin on it.
5 210 Q. The stuff you sent us, where did you get that stuff
6 — the document (EXHIBIT 8)?
7 A. Mr. Davis sent me this.
8 211 Q. But all the documents you have sent us you got from
9 Mr. Davis; is that right?
10 A. No, I have only sent you two things. One was a
11 sheet of paper from Dublin.
12 212 Q. Yes.
13 A. In the days when it went there and whatever went on
14 elsewhere I was totally unaware of.
15 213 Q. So did you keep any records yourself?
16 A. No.
17 214 Q. Not at all?
18 A. No.
19 215 Q. Anyway, you can throw no light on G.M.C.T A/A4?
20 A. I can't think
21 216 Q. Do you think it is possible that you paid, for
22 whatever reason, this small sum of money to
23 Mr. Draycott? Can you think of any reason why you
24 might...(INTERJECTION)?
25 A. Why I bothered with £57 in that way?
26 217 Q. Yes?
27 A. No, I can't, frankly. I am
28 absolutely...(INTERJECTION).
29 218 Q. You can't recollect. Well, we will leave it. I
35
1 mean, if you can't remember, you can't remember.
2 A. Bereft of any rational explanation why I should go
3 through this particular hoop.
4 219 Q. Can we just look at two more documents and then I
5 will be finished with my questions. Mr. Rowan may
6 have some to ask you. Page 73 and 74, please
7 (EXHIBIT 9)?
8 A. It is a very odd amount. I can't
9 think...(INTERJECTION).
10 220 Q. It is an odd amount, yes. Now, this may help you on
11 your A/A15 because here is a letter to you from,
12 again, Mr. Traynor, dated 19th June 1980. He says:
13 "Further to our discussions the other

day, attached are some figures
14 involved."
15
16 And attached we have figures relating to A/A15 and
17 A/A20. So it appears he was sending you figures
18 relating to yourself?
19 A. Yes A/A15 scans with this. Now, at this stage,
20 where are we -- 1980. I had no idea that this
21 outfit, which is Ansbacher Cayman, I think, was
22 involved. Where he put it, you know, is his
23 business, not mine.
24 221 Q. But you are happy that whatever kind of place it was
25 in, this relates to your funds -- these documents?
26 A. Well, it appears so, yes.
27 222 Q. A/A20 then appears to relate also to you. There
28 appear to be two accounts with fairly small sums in
29 them at that stage but there appear to be at least
36
1 two?
2 A. Yes, I have no knowledge of A/A20 but, certainly, I
3 think, as I say, from the filtering Mr. Davis and
4 his crew have done which he sent to me -- copies
5 which you have -- he must be fairly convinced that
6 this relates to the original one whenever.
7 223 Q. Just for yourself, would you accept that if
8 Mr. Traynor was sending you the statement that they
9 must relate to you?
10 A. Yes, I mean, he was a banker; he is not going to
11 tell me about somebody else's affairs.
12 MS. MACKEY: Mr. Mawdsley, I have no
13 further questions to ask
14 you. Thank you very much. Mr. Rowan, possibly,
15 has?
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
37
1 MR. MAWDSLEY WAS THEN EXAMINED BY MR. ROWAN AS
2 FOLLOWS
4 224 Q. MR. ROWAN: Mr. Mawdsley, may I just
5 at the start confirm in
6 the last 30 years where you have been resident?
7 A. In the UK.
8 225 Q. You have been resident in the UK?
9 A. Oh, yes, always have been. I have travelled abroad
10 for periods all over the place in my life for 25
11 years but I have never been there long enough to
12 become tax resident in any other country.
13 226 Q. There was reference to -- and I am not quite sure
14 how you pronounce this but let me try -- Bache
15 Halsey Stuart Shields?
16 A. Yes.
17 227 Q. Just tell me a little bit more about who they are?
18 A. It was an American investment and brokerage firm.
19 It was some short-term investment. I can't
20 remember, frankly, the details of it. I am sure Des
21 Traynor knew about it.
22 228 Q. You used their services?
23 A. Yes. This thing came to me in ways I, frankly,
24 can't recall. It seemed worth a look, let's say,
25 and I talked to Mr. Traynor about it. As an
26 independent professional merchant banker, you know,
27 there was nothing in it for him. He was totally
28 objective about it. I, obviously, went ahead with
29 it. It unraveled at some later point. I don't
38
1 recall if it was a
2 resounding success or an abject failure, frankly.
3 229 Q. So that you have explained to us that some time
4 after you had dinner or lunch with Mr. Traynor in
5 London...(INTERJECTION)?
6 A. Yes, I met him in the evening.
7 230 Q. ...and he explained to you that he could assist you
8 to shelter money offshore, sometime after that you
9 took up the offer?
10 A. Yes.
11 231 Q. That resulted in you opening a Sterling account and
12 at about the same time or sometime thereafter, a
13 dollar account?
14 A. Yes. I can't remember in what currency the thing
15 started. It is 21 years ago if it is a day and I
16 just do not know. As I said earlier, Des Traynor
17 offered an independent view because he was doing it,
18 presumably, with his own merchant banking clients on
19 the currency strengths and weaknesses at some
20 subsequent date. Again, you know, it is evident
21 from this about 20 years ago. That if it was in
22 Sterling it went into Dollars for, presumably, good
23 reasons -- that the dollar was weak and worthless if
24 operated by waiting for the recovery and then it
25 could be translated back into Sterling and would be
26 a bit more profit on it.
27 232 Q. Why you operated the accounts in that way is not
28 something we need necessarily to know about?
29 A. I am just explaining why we have got two currencies
39
1 in some of the stuff you have turned out.
2 233 Q. I understand. When Ms. Mackey was asking you about
3 the money that you decided to invest or place on
4 deposit, shall we say, with Mr. Traynor, she asked
5 you was that money already offshore and there was
6 just a slight hesitancy in your answer. Can I ask
7 you that question again, please?
8 A. Its source was not the UK.
9 234 Q. I see. Subsequently, when you placed further
10 amounts into the account, did they all come from non
11 UK sources?
12 A. Yes .
13 235 Q. They did?
14 A. Yes .
15 236 Q. You explained that when you wanted a withdrawal of
16 some funds that you telephoned Mr. Traynor and some
17 time after that -- a week or whatever -- you would
18 arrange to collect the cash. Did cash mean cash?
19 A. Yes .
20 237 Q. It wasn't a draft or a cheque?
21 A. No, sometimes it was travellers cheques.
22 Occasionally, I took some travellers cheques for a
23 particular purpose but it was, essentially, cash.
24 It was not cheques made payable to a third party or
25 bank drafts or anything like that.
26 238 Q. Did you ask for it in cash?
27 A. If I wanted it, yes.
28 239 Q. Did it ever come in other than cash or travellers
29 cheques ?
1 A. No, I always got what I asked for. As I said, these
2 events were few. They were not critical to my day
3 to day existence and there was invariably enough
4 time to prearrange these things at a time which was
5 mutually convenient.
6 240 Q. The records which we have seen suggest they were
7 relatively modest amounts?
8 A. That's right, yes.
9 241 Q. You have indicated to us that they really were not
10 of great significance in the grand scheme of your
11 financial affaors?
12 A. No, if it all collapsed...
13 242 Q. So it does seem strange, therefore, that you
14 operated in this way cash amounts from time to time?
15 A. Yes. Well, that is your view.
16 243 Q. You also indicated when Ms. Mackey asked you about
17 interest which you earned on your deposit accounts
18 how you dealt with that interest. Your answer was
19 that you did not remit any interest to the UK?
20 A. Yes.
21 244 Q. May I ask you did you return the interest as part of
22 your income?
23 A. I don't wish to comment on my tax affairs. If we go
24 down that road, we are getting away from the objects
25 of this particular meeting. You know, I am a
26 creditor of Ansbacher or Guinness Cayman Trust, as
27 it were. It is preposterous to suggest that in that
28 capacity I am party to defrauding its creditors or
29 anybody else for that matter.
41
1 245 Q. That, of course, is a matter which the investigation
2 will have to draw some conclusions about in due
3 course. So you choose not to answer my question?
4 A. Well, I am a UK resident, I have told you, for all
5 relevant purposes and that is as much as I am
6 prepared to say on the issue. I don't really see
7 what it has got to do in the context of how this
8 account was operated. If you want to pursue this,
9 you had better put a hold on it and I will come back
10 with some legal aid at my side. I am not an Irish
11 resident. I never was an officer or a shadow
12 director or an agent of the company. I wasn't
13 involved in the carrying on of business at any
14 relevant time. I am not aware that I breached any
15 Companies Acts of Ireland. Certainly, I would not
16 have been party to conducting the affairs of the
17 company with the intent to defraud its creditors or
18 the creditors of any other person or otherwise.
19 246 Q. Well, I think that we have asked you the question
20 and you have answered the question?
21 A. Yes, but can you please explain how pertinent it is
22 to this particular brief?
23 247 Q. Well, if you -- and you have just been looking at
24 the High Court Order?
25 A. Yes.
26 248 Q. ...under which we were appointed. I think you did
27 read on, I think, the third page of that order item
28 (d) -- one of our terms of reference. One term is
29 to examine whether the affairs of the company were
42
1 conducted with intent to defraud its creditors or
2 the creditors of any other person?
3 A. Yes, in relation to its Irish business, I think it
4 says somewhere, doesn't it? Well, in your letter
5 anyway.
6 MS. MACKEY: Yes, that is correct.
7 249 Q. MR. ROWAN: It does, yes. So carrying
8 on, Mr. Mawdsley, because
9 I don't think it is appropriate for us to debate the
10 terms of reference here?
11 A. I am trying to be helpful.
12 250 Q. I understand.
13 A. I think there is a point beyond which it loses the
14 principal trust or the point of principal thrust.
15 251 Q. That is a judgment that at the end of the day we
16 shall have to make.
17 A. Indeed.
18 252 Q. We were looking at page 64 (EXHIBIT 8)?
19 A. Now, which one is that?
20 253 Q. The page number will be on the bottom right-hand
21 corner of the documents that we have given you?
22 A. Oh, Draycott, yes.
23 254 Q. On the face of it, this was a small amount which was
24 payable to Mr. Draycott and charged to your account?
25 A. Yes .
26 255 Q. That is what it seems?
27 A. I am sure there is no more to it than that. I can't
28 think what it was for.
29 256 Q. Can you express any views as to whether A/A4 may
43
1 have been an account which Mr. Draycott had an
2 interest in?
3 A. I really don't know. Harry Draycott was in a
4 similar position in Thomas W. Ward as was I. He and
5 another fellow sat on the Tunnel Board representing
6 that equity interest. I saw him regularly -- you
7 know, every month or two months or whatever it was
8 when meetings were held and periodically on matters
9 of mutual interest irrespective of any scheduled
10 meetings. He was in London from time to time. I
11 have just noticed that it says something -- Overseas
12 Nominees -- on the top left; have you seen that bit
13 there?
14 MS. MACKEY: Yes, it seems to be like a
15 ghosted photocopy of some
16 other document but whether it has anything to do
17 with this...(INTERJECTION).
18 A. Whether it has anything to do with this I do not
19 know because the action bit on this actually is
20 blotted out by sticking this telephone message over
21 it.
22 MS. MACKEY: Yes.
23 A. But I really have absolutely nothing to offer. I
24 have no recollection. I mean, if I wanted to take
25 Harry Draycott out I could do and he could take me
26 out. That is as far as it went. Why ever on earth
27 I would be refunding him or paying him £57 in old
28 money in early 1982 is just beyond belief. This is
29 not a minnon. It is, you know, a grain of sand in
44
1 money terms but I can't comment on the account.
2 257 Q. Thank you. Finally...(INTERJECTION)
3 A. I enjoyed, you know, a reasonable relationship with
4 this fellow.
5 258 Q. Okay, we don't need any further clarification.
6 Finally, you explained to Ms. Mackey that you kept
7 no records of your dealings with Guinness Mahon
8 yourself?
9 A. No, you have surprised me with the number of things
10 that were sent to me. I can't recall why or what
11 triggered these things appearing, except a switch
12 from Dollars to Sterling or something like that.
13 259 Q. As someone who, I can well imagine, had a pretty
14 busy life with it, you didn't keep any record; you
15 relied on Mr. Traynor or his colleagues to keep the
16 records.
17 A. No, I relied on Mr. Traynor and I left messages with
18 his colleagues. As far as I am aware, I never
19 discussed any of the movements within this account
20 with any of them with the possible exception of
21 Mr. Collery when things went wrong in '95 and I was
22 seeking to unravel all this.
23 260 Q. How, if you didn't keep any records and subject, of
24 course, to the fact that you may well have a very
25 retentive memory, how could you be sure that your
26 affairs were being properly looked after by Guinness
27 and Mahon and Mr. Traynor?
28 A. Well, quite simply, I had formed the view that Des
29 Traynor was looking after individual and corporate
45
1 financial affairs for a number of companies and it
2 had never crossed my mind since, I think -- was he
3 the managing director of it at that time? He was,
4 certainly, the director of Guinness and Mahon.
5 261 Q. He certainly rose to that position, yes?
6 A. There was no reason why I shouldn't trust him any
7 more than I shouldn't have trusted, for example,
8 people in the same position in comparably sized
9 merchant banks with whom I had contact. Singer &
10 Friedlander is still about in Britain. There is one
11 called Chase Brothers. Leopold Joseph -- what is
12 the other one I was thinking of? It doesn't matter
13 but I had links with these people. You know, it was
14 my business to pick up the intelligence of who might
15 be thinking of getting out of what that might suit
16 us to buy into and Des was in that business himself.
17 262 Q. He was a man you met four or five times?
18 A. Not that many times but I spoke to him over the
19 phone. The last time I met him was in a totally
20 different context in my latter days at the House of
21 Fraser group, by which time I had left the original
22 listed public company and I was actually in the
23 director of the company that was formed to buy the
24 House of Fraser group. It was a private company in
25 Britain. Part of the work I did in the Fraser group
26 was trying to identify poor returning assets. There
27 were two notable ones. One was a store in
28 Copenhagen called Ilium, which was sold. The other
29 was Switzers in Dublin, which you may recall. The
46
1 Chairman of the time asked me did I know anyone in
2 Ireland who might be plugged into who wanted to do
3 what sort of thing and I said: 'I think I know the
4 very man for you'. And he said: 'Well, you'd
5 better go and see him'. So I went and met him in
6 Dublin. I didn't go to the office. I don't think I
7 ever went to the office, actually. I met him in the
8 hotel I was staying in because I was paying a call
9 on Switzers anyway to look at it's pre-audit
10 condition -- you know, make sure they got all their
11 ducks in the right place -- and I told him the story
12 and that was it. Whether he sold it, I never knew
13 because I left before that.
14 263 Q. Just to summarize the position, you met him four or
15 five times; you placed implicit trust in
16 him...(INTERJECTION)?
17 A. Yes, because of his position.
18 2 64 Q. You didn't get any documents from him apart
19 from...(INTERJECTION)
20 A. Well, I got more than I remembered I got but, I
21 mean, there must have been some reason for this, as
22 I say -- possibly, changing currencies or something
23 like that.
24 265 Q. I think you also said that most of the merchant
25 banks, particularly in London, would probably have
26 provided similar facilities to that which Des
27 Traynor was providing?
28 A. Well, most banks do have a variety of companies
29 offshore. Building societies even now in Britain,
47
1 you know, have offices in Jersey and Guernsey for
2 the same reason.
3 266 Q. May I ask you the question which follows from all of
4 that -- why then did you choose the slight
5 inconvenience of operating from a Dublin base as
6 opposed to a base in London in terms of sheltering
7 your offshore interest?
8 A. Well, I didn't think, given the nature of it, it was
9 the sort of thing that people I was dealing with on
10 a corporate basis should get involved in, frankly.
11 267 Q. I see?
12 A. I am well aware of what it represents and that is
13 the case.
14 MR. ROWAN: Those are the questions I
15 wanted to ask.
16 Ms. Mackey has one other question.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
48
1 MR. MAWDSLEY WAS THEN FURTHER EXAMINED BY MS. MACKEY
2 AS FOLLOWS
4 268 Q. MS. MACKEY: One other little thing
5 that just occurred to me
6 to clarify is something I spoke to you about
7 earlier. We were talking about this question of a
8 joint account that emerged and the name of Sir John
9 Derek Birkin came up and I asked you was it possible
10 that he was the other half of the joint account and
11 you said that it could be. Did you have business
12 interests with Sir Derek Birkin?
13 A. Derek Birkin was the managing director -- the chief
14 executive of Tunnel. He became the Chairman.
15 269 Q. So...(INTERJECTION)
16 A. Oh, yes. I mean, we worked together.
17 270 Q. Did you both have shareholdings in Tunnel?
18 A. Yes, very modest ones. Whatever the directors
19 qualification shares were. I had whatever the
20 director's qualification shares were. They were
21 very cheap at the time we joined it in the 70's. I
22 think they were under a pound and I think I bought
23 500 shares.
24 271 Q. Was that your only business connection with him?
25 A. Well, he was my boss.
26 272 Q. He was your boss?
27 A. Inescapable connection.
28 273 Q. But you weren't involved in any other enterprise
29 with him?
49
1 A. No, we were imported into the group to get it right.
2 MS. MACKEY: Well, I think that is
3 all we need to ask you,
4 Mr. Mawdsley. Thank you very much for coming along
5 twice -- the first time abortively. Thank you very
6 much you were able to do it today. We will need to
7 ask you to sign the transcript in due course.
8 A. Yes, well, I gave evidence to the DTI Inquiry into
9 the House of Fraser and where they got the dough
10 from -- popularly believed to be the Sultan of
11 Brunei, which they vehemently denied to this day.
12 This was run on very similar lines, frankly.
13 MS. MACKEY: What we will do is we will
14 send you the transcript
15 and -- how will we do it then, Ms. Cummins
16 MS. CUMMINS: We would ask you as soon
17 as you have checked it and
18 agree with the contents that you would have the
19 original notarised here in London.
20 A. Right.
21 MS. CUMMINS: Now, I will be sending a
22 separate copy, obviously,
23 to the copy that you initially get. It would be an
24 original copy with an original signature on the
25 front and we would ask you to sign it and have it
26 authorised. But I can give you the detailed
27 instructions on that copy.
28 A. Yes, of course. Well, I have had something
29 notarised for Mr. Davis.
50
1 MS. MACKEY: It is pretty routine.
2 That's grand.
3 A. It is actually the firm who looks after the legal
4 affairs of the management company.
5 MS. MACKEY: That's perfect. Thank you
6 very much indeed,
7 Mr. Mawdsley.
9 THE INTERVIEW WAS THEN CONCLUDED
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
51
h i .
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r\ z c ^ e
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51
A)OTA<zy PJLSLXu
349 526?
C.I.B.T.C.
1 0808 849 5267
ANSBACHIR (CAYMAN) UM7
PO BOX 817
ENRY A N S B A C H E R GRAND CAYMAN
CAYMAN BUNDS
BRITISH WEST INDIES
Telephone 809 949I6SJ
F r no. 109 949 5267
TalaxCP430S
ELEFAX
ram: JOHN A. FURZE Refno..' JAFam ' '
To: MIS - Dublin 8, Ireltad

Atlrnrton: D.: PADRAIG COLLERY
RtxK« .. .: ,011-353-1-677-1164
Date: 23 March, 1995
. This page only,
one)
Dear Padraig,^ " : • • • • • • • • • • • •

I confirm arrangements have been madefor Basil Mawdsley to collect £1.000.00 in
from Andy Love in London cm Monday.
Please arrange to credit lbe Sundry Sub-Company Account with £1,050.00
•i Yours sincerely,
A.Fune
*youtiAV*Ni>rnc8v»TOm»M«umwrMB^
coMRarnniRVNanct
Tlilirilil.il «in.|i ulliiifti fmi.KI imn^>i| iii)î|^ li|i)iJndHi^tidiiiii|HwiiiliMiiii|M^|li<liTiii tffesndwfca*
wyiM •» *» i»,li»mr ifm/ialM > » *» In ili l *iiIii<«m, Mill m
IIIIIMIIIMII L I N NUHIWRI. R R W>P..R»^»WM.»II>ILIL«- > « T YL>I«^. T LIIIIHI«I<LILIL)IIILL()»TRLILT>»II«»(«»LW M L L ^ W W M I
ftnhiliiirfwywy*— — >*ywiMi. Hwfcyw.
(DKftUCM
i 8765144/876 3065
42 FITZWILUAM SQUARE
Fix: 661 2035
DUBLIN 2
i..
?
•• 1 .
•..I FACSIMILE TRANSMISSION

• *<:i,->i
I !
To: Cayman International Bank fla* W o ' 001 809 94!
and Trust.Company Limited.
Attention? Mr. J . A . F u r a e . . .' . Sa£®l 2 0 t h J u l y , 1994
From; Joan W i l l i a m s . T o t a l Ho. Pages

(iricl. t h i s sheet); 1
Dear John", ' .'*"•'"

Mr. A . J . B . Mawdsley' ( B a s i l Mawdsley) would l i k e t o c o l l e c t
Stg.E1 ,500 i n c a s h from; Henry Ansbacher i n London on Monday
n e x t , 25tK J u l y , a b o u t 11 a.m. i f p o s s i b l e .
Could you p l e a s e a r r a n g e w i t h Andy Love i n Henry Ansbacher
for t h i s . I f i t lis p o s s i b l e , ! can r i n g Mr. Mawdsley on
F r i d a y and a s k him t o ring.Andy Love b e f o r e a c t u a l l y
c a l l i n g so t h a t a time could be agreed. Perhaps therefore
you c o u l d l e t . m e . k n o w i f - i t i s g o i n g t o be O.K. I know
the n d t i c e i s a b i t s h o r t b u t I only r e t u r n e d t o t h e office
t h i s morning and a s t h e r e i s a t h r e a t e n e d r a i l s t r i k e i n t h e
U.K. n e x t Tuesday/Wednesday i t would s u i t him b e t t e r i f h e c o u l d
c a l l Monday.
Mr. Mawdsley i s t h e h o l d e r of B r i t i s h P a s s p o r t No.200450K and
he w o u l d . b r i n g t h i s w i t h him for i d e n t i f i c a t i o n p u r p o s e s .
He h a s c a l l e d t o c o l l e c t c a s h on p r e v i o u s o c c a s i o n s .
• • ' . '
I w i l l a r r a n g e t o c r e d i t your Sub-Company Account w i t h

S t g . £ 1 , 5 5 0 when you a d v i s e you have t r a n s f e r r e d t h e funds to
London.
I look forward t o h e a r i n g from you.
Yours s i n c e r e l y ,
.
I I
["li'U'Ju-
•1 ' •
i
C27.th November," 1986
t.
A.
rv
l '
•.. i
i "1 i"
1 ;
' • !
LANiSATIONI
A: J.wMrf D.P.-C. * 2nd' Jfoveiber, 1984.
. Ms^sioy
K
U .
Could you, please organise to lodge the attached

5
'/^shires r, cf 'ej:V-
'*•••* •'* ' k • * '* f *
* i ,. .*
•• "••• *i.' !",
j.' i,- '•. i. ' " •".
• T -' r • V 1 • • ;. *• % ... -J . • •' J"-
;.'.:..v 'Jfv:' K: •'
jV...
•-rv
i: •
I
.. ' •• i• •
A. J.W.
•t
y&jw
Tel/Fax 00 44 (0)20 7228 5449
104 Valiant House
Vicarage Crescent
London
SW113LX
I % m
Yourref C/M 25/NDDP
22 May 2000
hi, U
In reply to your letter of 4 May and my subsequent

conversation with you, attached is an unsworn statement covering my knowledge of
tiie issues and pc&ctices more fully set out in Appendix C relatingtomy dealings with
the late JD Traynor and the various companies I now appreciate were used.
Ireliedentirely on him and his administrative office so I am not able to provide more
than stated about the general background to this Inquiry.
Though not an Irish national nor an Irish resident for tax purposes, I am willing to
assist this Inquiry by confirming tothe extent I was aware of it and in my limited
personal knowledge, how this account was operated '
Please note that I will be out ofthe UKfrom 12 June to 1 July
AJB Mawdsley" "*
Ms. Mary Cummins

Office of The Inspectors
3* Floor
Trident House
Blackrock
Co. Dublin
To Inspectors to Ansbacher (CavmanlLtd.
Statement bv AJB Mawdslev
I met Mr. Traynor occasionallyfrom around 1973 to the late eighties. I had some
offshore earnings so as he had previously mentioned before this source arose that he
had a vehicle to which such payments could be made and then sheltered, I had that
money paid directly to an account number he provided at G & M.
I had then gainedfrom him the strong impression it was held by an offshore
Guinness Mahon subsidiaryfrom which, by prior arrangement, cash could be drawn.
This was arranged by calling Mr.Traynor who dealt with my account personally and if
he was away, I asked Miss Joan Williams his secretary, and later in the eighties, also
Mr, Padraig Collery,to ask him to call me when he was back in Dublin.
This was a matter I entirely entrusted to him to deal with on my behalf; I was not
fronting for a corporation or other similar entity such as those in the Definitions on
p. 10 nor were there at any time, any deeds of trust, back to back loan agreements or
guarantees etc. such asreferred to on ps. 12- IS.
I do not know what use if any, he made of any bank mentioned in 2(e), p. 11 and
thereafter nor of EB and the Channel Islands trusts etc. and College Trustees in para.
(7) of ps. 15/16 the majority of which I have never heard of in any context
No loan or similar facilities were offered or used by me except by prior agreement
made via Mr. Traynor to enable me to draw cashfrom a G & M office in the City of
London and laterfrom an Ansbacher branch, also on the edge of the City.
Since I relied entirely on personal contact with Mr. Traynor, I retained no records or
correspondence with any named parties or companies apartfrom a now long out of
date statementfrom O & M now overtaken by the transfer of these funds to Cayman
Islands companies operated locally about which at the relevant time, I knew nothing.
My account with G &M was 80001173 later A/A15 when it was transferred to The
Cayman Islands, a copy of each of the last Statementsfrom each is attached.
4 )s
Ct.
V V . ^ , (TO
Appendix XV (89) (1) (g)
A.JtWi t o Ptlfelfi.'.^. 14th Hay 1982.
3j.K-/>.V". . .J;..'.
ft'-';: - ' '
r.
•f, •
.. I havi' toa^y r e c e i v e d a request from Xr.'Hawdaley t h a t
• we transfer..£25 t OOO t o• . • s • <»;!.!?.
ffikfcjW-. . V- Bache. Halsey Stuart Shield* I n c . , f ;'>
• 1 /;•'••••• S Burllngton Gardens,
• .^London,^W.l.^ • ••
Attention Hr. Higel Mill •
t. .i
' . • . '•••}' • • • • • . • ;
.. t»-and I n d i c a t e d - a s being for c r e d i t of Account Ko.680528358

—ii (Mr. A.J.B. Ma-wdsley).. • •
' * •
Xf possiitJle . i t would he appreciated i f t h i s could be sent i'"

' t o LoqdonvOffioa via. Data Podt with a note for thea to •
"... . ha've v delivered by hand. i»
'The' debit, should be nad4 to, G.M.C.T. Account r e Coral
^.sy': Ko.15816/03/68.
Ho. 18816/03/68.
h.^ :
' ; . .; •.•-is.- • • i • • L
.I
!
I
/AJJ
)
t
Xw.-
> " H I M I H NIIM (ITUIj Tiutl .

u » »«• co««u *„•.
... omwci - u.s.:«aum ;ry-
umtm t.- cifimu rtill
> limit
Ml
.JIJMM «'U«tl MMIMf niNUI

m i n t a tn c « M f
7Hlllt anaaeit O* CHL-
n i t m !•» TO M F L , '
7 H I M 1 , tat h i lao* m i (i»i m u
i Q vIIIIUI Mf«-
. I U I I I 1 U K (Wtt^v
- 1 . zt
V*:<T
SC-i-XjG
a. :
s'-'". ' ifti'^. v..'

fyv.: iH •
rl'jff
&
Appendix XV (89) (1) (k)
B r a c n r program, r lath'March, ISBS.
i
A.J.B. Indalajr, Baq.,
. TunaellBbiaiDgs Ltds^d' .' : > . -K',7. n.'i
Joint
|v I S f i j i S B u B ^
&J•6<V• Interest to 31/1/1981 — J..TJ.CO
1
Transferred to Eollaurs 73
Dear Basil, • 1
"> ' Ki 1 .
I have pleasure in • no losing barewith copy-Sank---"-'
Statements <0*toothSterling and Dollar Accounts froo
<\ • • , • c*sh 1.000 tie..scs.co
i S S S S ; Drawnf l o t t l d y o u h l l v * <H»«*es perhaps y<M wdtiwr.

K/i/1982 Ha Shares • fi2.727.81 .
••[iyifttg** , - sob.00 '.
• "/ • Raises
.. 'V*
•1.1
'.1
I
i
I ,
i
y •'• STBBLIHG 'ACOOOHT
'. ' • * » • . " . . • . . . ;'
' . - • • • . ; • i
• . i
i •. ,. •.•!-•. . , .
23/1/1980 Lodged . • . £11,427.65

. Frcm.' Joint. Accomit • 5,889.50
Interest to-.31/1/1981 . 1.854.00
'7;' " • £19,171.15
Transferred to Dollars' £19.171.15
17/12/1981 Lodged Groas£17,462

£16,462.00'
• ' Cwk i.cioo
31/1/1983 " Interest 278t*|
,i ' , s • £16,740.11
Less Drawn:
.12/1/1982 Ba Shares'! £2,727.Bl'
10/2/1982 ! Cash 500.00 ' 3.227.81
Balance- £13,512.30
JOINT ACCOUHT
\ / / ..
V 13/6/1980 • Lodged £10,695.19
Interest to"31/1/1981 . \ 1,083.81
£11,779.00
wmmmmmmlmmmmmmm
S p l i t - l X.J e a c h " 889.50
t&i'HM*- r- !
A.J.W. to P.P.C. ' "' 16th February, 1982.
. «> . •• v .' *
h,. •••
•' >•*v.'» v,
• • • -rt ' ...' •*
Could you please arrange to transfer two amounts of

• '.U.S.$1,750 each for „ . ' . . • '
. Bankefs T*ust Company,.
i..
• 16 Wall"'Street,.
Hew York/. . .•-•••
'.' for credl't' of Dbmnick Investors Corporation
Account Ko.00801625-. ; ; $1750 to be credited to
Mr. J.D'/ Birkin*.s. Account Ho.00380 88 170 and
$1750 to be credited to Mr. A.J.B. towdelay's
•' Account Ho.0038852179.
• • .. • • . • . . • • • ' , . j •
It is apparently important -that the two amounts of

• :$1750 be in Hew York, not'la tar than Friday of this.'
week.'. ..".A." • • . . . > . •
One amount of. $1750 should be'debited to G.H.C.T.

Account Ho. 15816/03/68. and the. other to G.H.C.T.
„• Account "No. 20738/03/68. .
tic.'
i
•v/
I - ' !
• .1
t i.
A.J.W.
s
kepjoka- -Ay (Lc^

teY®
•po
U.6'
•ted -to
0v e *
.Co' '
ste*
t,e< •to
,f
Appendix XV (89) (1) (n)
ry
G U I N N ^ + M A H O N U l T ^
17 - A r t , a Raflcs, '
• . Tp-.S
* iTf"1* rrjfinn, ! •: . Kumtrt* "
-v' CONWM ThAT W6 S J A V E K - V V ^ ^tfQU: • .
-v'-r--.. •: . /• • / •;. '

Appendix XV (89) (1) (o)
[
-1 - — J — i
u
1
i ft-
i
PJ
A W e? y r 6/f£8 &
/SIMM . PS- t>9gj e/
i* PC Cr
A f»7,UAtl tj.hM.
1 i- i
. ... , .. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , ! . , , i
i. 1, .; 1
. AOCOWT NUMBER &0001173 PAGE ,
BALANCES SHOWN ABB W: sterling
30/11/95 BftOtXSHT FORWARD 7661.70

31/12/95 31/12/95 Interest to 31/12/95 96.56
11/12/95 7758.26
CABRIgOWHWAftP
3 I
t »
\
r — — 1 :
i \
Appendix XV (89) (1) (p)
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Appendix XV (90) Professor Anthony J Merrett
1. Evidence relied upon by the Inspectors in arriving at the conclusion relating to
Professor Anthony J Merrett.
a) Letter of 23 June 1977 - GMCT to Guinness and Mahon.
b) Letter of 1 July 1977 - Guinness and Mahon to GMCT.
c) Letter of 19 July 1977 - GMCT to Guinness and Mahon.
d) Guinness and Mahon statement of a/c of 7 September 1977.

A Member of the Guinness Mahon Merchant Banking Group
Talaphona No 9-4653/4 P.O.BOM 887
Tale* CP 305 Grand Cayman
Cable Addreas Guinness Britlah Weal Indie.
your rel
ourref JAF/£c
23Ad Jane, 1977
—^ ULckaeJL J. PendeA, B<j.
• Gacnnew & Mahon ltd.
i i 77 College Gieen
Vubtin 2
JKELANV
Vetui Hichaet,
PROF. MERRETT
W wa4 a ptsLoAuJui talking to you oven the telephone. yeiteJiday, and

tu a A&&u£t o& ou/L aonveJuation I con&Utm that we have, advanced
a iuAtkesi amount o<$ US$15,000 to ?/to£. MeAA&tt. ThU ha* incASMed
OUA. total lerding to him to US$45,000 and I think you. note yout
ZedgeA avid to the. effect that toy 435,000 JU hypothecated to u&
thU should be. Autfôcleitt boned on pn.e&ent exchange Aatei to cove
the total advance and intvieAt theAeon.
IK due COU/L&e penhap& you Mould kindly dwp me a. line. con{Z>ming

thU action fun been taken.
Youaa itnceMJLy,
\\. 1 (s>tf
I
A. FURZE
i+^nfot,
MJF/JB
1st J u l y , 1977
M r , John A . F u r z e
Guinneas Mahon C a y m a n T r u s t L t d . ,
P . O . Box 887,
Grand C a y m a n ,
B r i t i s h W e s t Indie a
Dear John,
PROFESSOR MERRETT
»
In r e p l y to y o u r l e t t e r of 23rd J u n e , 1977 r e g a r d i n g the above,

I confirm t h a t P r o f e s s o r M e r r e t t h a s today a u t h o r i s e d m e to
h y p o t h e c a t e the equivalent of a f u r t h e r $20, 000, and I have
a g r e e d to do t h i s . He will be contacting you with a view t o
a r r a n g i n g a (20, 000 additional loan, which I coztlirmed to
h i m would be in o r d e r . A c c o r d i n g l y , I confirm that £50,000
I s a t p r e s e n t being held by Guinness + Mahon to c o v e r h i s
b o r r o w i n g f r o m you. •
K i n d e s t r e g a r d s and looking forward to s e e i n g you aoon.
Yours sincerely,
i
Michael J . Pender
Banking D i r e c t o r
' A Member of the Guinnaaa Mahon Merchant Banking Group
Telephone No 9-4653/4 P.O. Box 887
Telex CP 305 Grand Cayman
Cable Addreaa Guinnaaa Britiah Weat Indie.
your KJP/J8
ourrel 3k? H I
19th July, 1977
Michael J. PendeA,
Banking ManageA
Gainnzii + Mahon Ltd.
17 College GAeen
VublUn 2
IRELAND
VtaA Uichazt,
PROFESSOR MERRETT
c
Tftanfe you vefty much ioK youA. IxJUbui Ut July conc&uung PJioêA
UeAJvett.
bUth the. iu/tfheji advance which we have ejected PfiaêMOA Mmett htu
total bo/tAouUng* {Aam ut> $65,000 which on pn&ient exchange hate* -L&
4u6fri<Uently c o v e t e d by the. hypothecation oi 150,000 held by you.
I am making oAAangemntA to met with PAO£. Mewtett in New VATIK IxiteA

thi& month to di&cuMA thii boAtouiing with him and In paAticulaA the
•bounce oi Aepayment, Aince I undeJUtand that the fiundi deposited with
you one in domestic, and not iotvzign ewuizncy.
But wUheM,
VOUAA tinceAely,
JOHN A. FURZE
HON... . B E S Z C A X A J D B P . O S I X
X^^/ACCOUNT
statement
00.1
MERRTETT A J
OCIlT CKOII IAIANCE

MRTICUIARS
234,044.47 a
JUH 877 254,04 4.47 •
UN 16'?7
..IWW77 1Q758.05 244,802.52 «
IjUN 30*77 INTEREST
100,000.00 144,80252
TSFO TO A I B .'' 7,000.00 157,802.5*
JUL 5'77 |OFT ISSUED .0 SCOBETTE LTD
157,802.52
AUG 23'77
137,80252
SEP V N
SYMBOLS
fi| dabitbalanca • credit balanca
In totarau em eommldlon
|g lodgment CM ca«h withdrawal
cb chequebook *o standing order
Guinness & Mahon Ltd
17 COLLEGE GREEN DUBLIN 2
A . J . Merrett Esq.*
Brookland Place*
Brookland,
Kent TM29 9RH. TELEPHONE 782444
TELEX 5205
Appendix XV (91) Mr Geoffrey Miller
Geoffrey Miller.
a) Transcript of evidence of Mr Geoffrey Miller dated 25 February 2000.
b) Letter of 23 October 1990 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and Mahon.
c) Print-out of statement of account of 25 October 1990 re Ansbacher

Limited.
d) Schedule of Ansbacher Limited balances as at 31 December 1989.
e) Letter of 11 April 1990 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and Mahon.
2. Correspondence received from or on behalf of Mr Geoffrey Miller.
a) Letter of 6 December 2001 - Murphy's Solicitors to Inspectors.

Appendix XV (91) (l)(a)
PRIVATE EXAMINATION OF MR. GEOFF MILLER
UNDER OATH
ON FRIDAY, 2 5TH FEBRUARY 2000
Stenographer
PRESENT
MS. MACKEY BL
The Inspector's Accpountant MR. T. SLEVIN
Interviewee: MR. GEOFFREY MILLER
Represented by: MR. H. MOHAN BL
Instructed by: MR. STAN MURPHY
MURPHYS
21 UPPER GEORGE'S STREET
DUN LAOGHAIRE
CO DUBLIN
I N D E X
WITNESS EXAMINATION
MR. G. MILLE MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO
MS. MACKEY
MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO
MS. MACKEY
1 THE EXAMINATION COMMENCED, AS FOLLOWS, ON FRIDAY
2 2 5TH FEBRUARY 2 000
4 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Miller, we will start
5 our interview then. My
6 name is Declan Costello and Ms. Mackey is on my
7 right. We have been appointed as the Inspectors by
8 The High Court into this matter. I want to just
9 briefly indicate to you the procedure we are
10 adopting today. This is not a Court. It is not a
11 tribunal. It is an interview as part of our
12 investigation, which we are required to undertake by
13 order of the Court.
14
15 If in the course of the questions that we ask you,
16 you wish to obtain the advise of Mr. Mohan or your
17 solicitor please tell me so and will we stop asking
18 the questions and you can take advise. If in the
19 course of the interview Mr. Mohan or your solicitor
20 wishes to discuss any point with you, they can
21 indicate that to us and we will stop and you can
22 take legal advise on the matter.
23
24 Mr. Miller, we wish to have this evidence taken
25 under oath and I will ask Mrs. Mackey now to
26 administer the oath to you.
27 MR. MOHAN: Might I simply say for the
28 record that, in fact,
29 Mr. Miller's instructions to me are to make full and
4
1 frank disclosure and to cooperate absolutely fully
2 with whatever questions you may ask.
3 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Very good.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
5
1 MR. GEOFF MILLER, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AS
2 FOLLOWS BY MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO
4 1 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Miller, for the
5 purposes of the record,
6 could you just give us a general introduction to
7 your career and what your business career has been?
8 Then we can come to deal with your association with
9 Mr. Traynor and with Ansbacher and
10 with Guinness & Mahon?
11 A. Yes.
12 2 Q. Just in a general way what your business career has
13 been?
14 A. Yes. Well, it is very very simple. I will give you
15 the entire background as soon as I can.
16 3 Q. Yes?
17 A. As quickly as I can.
18 4 Q. Yes, yes?
19 A. I started as an office boy in Williams & Woods in
20 Parnell Street.
21 5 Q. Yes?
22 A. I left there during the war. Went away for three
23 years, came back ...(INTERJECTION).
24 6 Q. Just a bit slowly now. It has to be taken down?
25 A. I came back ...(INTERJECTION).
26 7 Q. Just a little slowly?
27 A. Sorry.
28 8 Q. It has to be taken down, Mr. Miller?
29 A. Okay, when I came back ...(INTERJECTION).
6
1 9 Q. No, no. You can talk to me?
2 A. All right.
3 10 Q. She has very good hearing, Mr. Miller. She can hear
4 you all right. If you would talk to me and just
5 tell me?
6 A. Right.
7 11 Q. You came back after the war then?
8 A. Yes.
9 12 Q. Did you start your own firm?
10 A. No, I started with my uncle then and then I stayed
11 -- I wasn't very enthusiastic about it. I went in
12 with my father who had a very, very small business
13 including one agency.
14 13 Q. Yes?
15 A. What we used to call Rayophane, which was in fact
16 cellophane which goes around cigarette packets.
17 14 Q. Yes?
18 A. It was at that time the only transparent packaging.
19 15 Q. Yes?
20 A. Okay.
21 16 Q. Yes?
22 A. He had done nothing with it. He had been through a
23 terrible time during the war. You could not get
24 supplies. You could not get anything. He had a bad
25 time in the 1930's. There was very, very little
26 there.
27 17 Q. Yes?
28 A. I didn't not take a great deal of interest but
29 however I got interested.
7
1 18 Q. Yes?
2 A. And from there on we started to build the business.
3 19 Q. Yes?
4 A. Okay.
5 20 Q. Yes.
6 A. That was GB Miller & Son.
7 21 Q. And Son?
8 A. Yes.
9 22 Q. Yes?
10 A. Okay.
11 23 Q. Yes?
12 A. Now, I am just trying to think about what happened.
13 It seems so simple. We expanded our agencies and we
14 expanded the business and it just grew. There was
15 my father, myself and a secretary.
16 24 Q. You were Director of it?
17 A. Well, it wasn't a limited company.
18 25 Q. Was it not?
19 A. It was just a private company. That is all there
20 was to it.
21 26 Q. Yes?
22 A. And it went on like that with one girl in two rooms.
23 27 Q. Did you develop then? Did you become a limited
24 company or were you ...(INTERJECTION)?
25 A. We became a limited company in -- against my
26 father's wishes.
27 28 Q. Just generally?
28 A. Well, yes. It must have been 1948 or 1949 or so.
29 29 Q. Yes. Were you a director then of the company?
8
1 A. I was a director or course.
2 30 Q. And your father was?
3 A. And my father was a director.
4 31 Q. Yes. Then the business expanded, did it?
5 A. The business expanded.
6 32 Q. Yes?
7 A. We got other agencies we got one particularly fine
8 agency.
9 33 Q. Yes. Your business career has been associated then
10 with GB Miller & Son Limited?
11 A. All my life, yes.
12 34 Q. All your life?
13 A. Yes.
14 35 Q. Yes. We are concerned with the relationship which
15 you may have had with the company now known as
16 "Ansbacher". In relation to that, you will recall
17 in the letter, we asked you for a full statement and
18 we have not obtained a full statement from you
19 Mr. Miller. Can you give it to us now?
20 A. I was told I didn't need a statement.
21 36 Q. I see. Very well?
22 A. That it was unnecessary.
23 37 Q. Yes, I see?
24 A. That you decided to do away with it.
25 38 Q. I see?
26 A. I had one drafted.
27 39 Q. I see?
28 A. Which I have left behind.
29 40 Q. I see. Very well. Just tell us now then what your
9
1 relationship was with the company that we are
2 concerned about and how it came about?
3 A. Well, to start off I would have to tell you how I
4 got connected with Guinness & Mahon.
5 41 Q. Please do?
6 A. And that is very simple. I made a statement to the
7 Moriarty Tribunal before. Have you got that?
8 42 Q. We have not, no?
9 A. All right. Well, then I would want to go into more
10 depth with you about the thing.
11 43 Q. No, if you can ...(INTERJECTION)?
12 A. I will go into the thing all over again is what I am
13 trying to say.
14 44 Q. It would assist us if you could give us that
15 statement?
16 A. I haven't got it.
17 45 Q. Yes?
18 A. Okay.
19 46 Q. You can arrange that?
20 A. I didn't bring it.
21 MR. MURPHY: I can arrange that.
22 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Very well.
23 MR. MURPHY: Yes.
25 MR. MURPHY: We can send it on. We do
26 not have it today.
27 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes, very well.
28 MR. MURPHY: It is between myself and
29 counsel.
10
2 MR. MURPHY: I am afraid that it has
3 fallen between the two.
5 MR. MURPHY: What I have can certainly
6 be sent on.
7 47 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes, very well. Okay?
8 A. Well, during the 1966 bank strike, the first bank
9 strike, I was strapped for money. I had £100,000
10 worth of cheques which I couldn't cash. My account
11 was with AIB in Capel Street. So, I thought, "Well,
12 I have this money." There is money and cash. The
13 company was growing quite rapidly.
14 48 Q. Yes?
15 A. There was money in Capel Street which I couldn't get
16 at. So, I went to Allied Irish Investment Bank.
17 They were a branch of it and I said, "I want" -- My
18 principals in England were pestering me for money.
19 They said, "These blank cheques, which we can't
20 cash, these cheques which we can't cash are no damn
21 good to us. We want money." So, I went along to
22 them and they were in College Green and I asked them
23 for the money. They could not give it to me. I
24 said, "There is the cheques. The money is in Capel
25 Street. You are not on strike. You are a branch.
26 We have been with you for 70 years. I want some
27 bloody money." And they wouldn't give it to me.
28 No, they couldn't interfere. They wanted all sorts
29 of guarantees. Okay?
11
1 49 Q. Yes. I wonder if I could try to shorten it a little
2 bit?
3 A. Yes, all right.
4 50 Q. I would just like the ...(INTERJECTION)?
5 A. Yes. So, I was raging at that.
6 51 Q. Yes?
7 A. And I walked across the road into Guinness & Mahon.
8 52 Q. Yes?
9 A. That was the time I started with Guinness & Mahon.
10 53 Q. Yes?
11 A. We stayed on with Guinness & Mahon using them for
12 transfers, credit transfers and things like that,
13 only for big amounts and we then -- so, at that time
14 we stayed in Guinness and Mahon until the company
15 started to get very much bigger, very much stronger.
16 54 Q. Yes?
17 A. I had two accountants. I got rid of them, one after
18 the other because they didn't seem to be doing their
19 job properly. I was making what I thought was a lot
20 of money in those time. Something in the region of
21 net £20,000 a year from two rooms and myself, which
22 was a lot of money.
23 55 Q. Did you go to ...(INTERJECTION)?
24 A. 20 years ago.
25 56 Q. Did you meet Mr. Traynor?
26 A. No, before that -- what I am trying to say was, we
27 just traded directly a little bit with
28 Guinness & Mahon.
29 57 Q. Yes?
12
1 A. For letters of credit and things like that. The
2 main business was done with Allied Irish Banks and I
3 just did it because they had been good to me during
4 the thing. Okay?
5 58 Q. Yes?
6 A. So, then I went to -- I said, "I will have to get a
7 good accountant." I went into SKC, who I thought
8 were the best people in the country, they put me in
9 touch with their tax advisor and he said that there
10 were possibilities with my type of business
11 . . . (INTERJECTION) .
12 59 Q. What was your tax advisor's name?
13 A. Don Reid.
14 60 Q. Don Reid?
15 A. Yes .
16 61 Q. Yes?
17 A. He was ...(INTERJECTION).
18 62 Q. Yes?
19 A. At that time he was a partner I believe.
20 63 Q. Yes?
21 A. And supposed to be their tax expert.
22 64 Q. Yes. Generally what was the scheme that was
23 operated?
24 A. Yes, this is what I am coming to now. The scheme
25 was that a company -- one of our companies that we
26 were distributors for, paid us on commission only.
27 65 Q. Yes?
28 A. And it was a smaller part of our business but it was
29 quite substantial and they were to set up, or they
13
1 would set up, a company in Jersey which was an
2 overseas company.
3 66 Q. Yes?
4 A. And we would pay that company or they would appoint
5 that company as advisors to the Irish market, on how
6 they should market their goods to the Irish market.
7 An agreement would be drawn up and we would
8 relinquish half our commission. Our commission
9 was 5 percent. Half the commission was two and a
10 half percent and these would be paid into the
11 Guernsey company.
12 67 Q. What was the name of the company?
13 A. I can't remember the name of the company but I have
14 recalled -- the last meeting we were at they said
15 who that company was. You see, I didn't have
16 anything to do with that. This was a company formed
17 by British Ceedack Limited, who were our suppliers.
18 This was nothing unusual for them because they were
19 doing it with agents all over the world, keeping
20 money in London and various places overseas.
21 68 Q. Yes?
22 A. Part of their commission.
23 69 Q. Did British Ceedack Limited form a company on your
24 instructions in Guernsey?
25 A. Yes, yes.
26 70 Q. And, how ...(INTERJECTION)?
27 A. Basically on my instructions.
28 71 Q. Half the commission that you were entitled to went
29 to this company?
1 A. Yes.
2 72 Q. Can you remember the name of the company?
3 A. I can't remember the name of the company.
4 73 Q. Have you any records available as to this
5 transaction?
6 A. I never kept any records of this.
7 74 Q. Yes?
8 A. I just didn't keep any.
9 75 Q. Who ...(INTERJECTION)?
10 A. I am like that.
11 76 Q. Did Mr. Reid in SKC ...(INTERJECTION)?
12 A. I approached British Ceedack. My father had been
13 agents for them since 1937 and I explained the
14 situation and their sales manager, who is now dead,
15 said, "Geoff, there is no problem. I am doing it
16 for everybody all over the world".
17 77 Q. All right. This will happen then. It was was set
18 up?
19 A. Yes, it was ...(INTERJECTION).
20 78 Q. The money, half the money, went into the
21 Guernsey company?
22 A. It went into this company, yes.
23 79 Q. Then what was the rest of the arrangement.
24 A. Well, I am trying to puzzle out how Guinness & Mahon
25 got involved in this and I think that they took on a
26 trust or bankers in the Isle Of Man at whose
27 insistence or suggestion it was, were Guinness &
28 Mahon.
29 80 Q. I am sorry. Was it the Isle Of Man, did you say?
15
1 A. No, were Guinness & Mahon. The bankers who looked
2 after this company on behalf of Ceedack were
3 Guinness & Mahon. Now, this I am not -- I am under
4 oath so I have got to be very careful about this but
5 I was asked, "Was it such and such a company? Was
6 it such and such a company," at the last
7 Moriarty meeting. Several companies were mentioned
8 including College Trustees.
9 81 Q. Yes?
10 A. At that time it didn't click but since then -- and
11 mind you I have also read this in the newspapers.
12 This is why I cannot positively say that it was
13 College Trustees but I am virtually certain it was
14 College Trustees. I think that that is how
15 Guinness & Mahon became connected with -- how I
16 became connected -- although I was a customer of
17 Guinness & Mahon I think that was my introduction of
18 the overseas company to Guinness & Mahon.
19 82 Q. Yes?
20 A. Okay?
21 83 Q. Yes .
22 A. Now, I thought this was -- well, God, I was 36 years
23 of age at that time. I was raising two boys and I
25 84 Q. If you could just ...(INTERJECTION)?
26 A. Anyway.
27 85 Q. Just tell us ...(INTERJECTION)?
28 A. All right. So, then ...(INTERJECTION).
29 86 Q. If you could just keep it ...(INTERJECTION)?

1 A. It went on then.
2 87 Q. Just keep it as short as you can, Mr. Miller?
3 A. Okay, I will. I am just getting a bit carried away.
4 88 Q. Yes. Just keep it as short as you can?
5 A. Yes, Okay. I think that is what it was. Now, I was
6 fully convinced that this was legal or I had been
7 told that it was legal: "Absolutely legal, yes.
8 The money is coming into Ireland. If your
9 commission wasn't paid to you and you just didn't
10 get your commission, you wouldn't have to advise
11 The Revenue Commissioners. This money is going to a
12 separate company outside the jurisdiction of Ireland
13 and it is staying there and it is mounting up."
14 89 Q. Yes?
15 A. "Occasionally this company may lend you a bit of
16 money" or something.
17 90 Q. Who?
18 A. Which I didn't use.
19 91 Q. Who advised you about this? Mr. Reid, was it?
20 A. I don't honestly know. I couldn't say definitely
21 who it was. I don't honestly know but I know that
22 I felt that while I couldn't really use the money I
23 could go into Guinness & Mahon and draw against what
24 my guarantees, which I had already given them,
25 where, small amounts of money and that these
27 92 Q. Had you an accountant at this time advising you on
28 your own tax affairs?
29 A. Not really, no, I was -- this then just disappeared

1 more or less and I was ...(INTERJECTION).
2 93 Q. No, no. I just want to know ...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. Yes.
4 94 Q. You had to make ...(INTERJECTION)?
5 A. We had ...(INTERJECTION).
6 95 Q. Mr. Miller?
7 A. We moved ...(INTERJECTION).
8 96 Q. Mr. Miller?
9 A. We moved ...(INTERJECTION).
10 97 Q. Mr. Miller?
11 A. Yes, sorry.
12 98 Q. Just listen to the question?
13 A. All right, yes.
14 99 Q. I want to know, did you have an accountant looking
15 after your company's affairs?
16 A. Yes.
17 100 Q. During ...(INTERJECTION)?
18 A. Yes, SKC.
19 101 Q. SKC?
20 A. Yes.
21 102 Q. Did you have a separate accountant looking after
22 your own affairs?
23 A. No.
24 103 Q. Your own tax affairs?
25 A. No.
26 104 Q. Did SKC look after your own tax affairs?
27 A. Yes.
28 105 Q. They did?
29 A. Yes.
18
1 106 Q. Was that Mr. Reid?
2 A. No, it was then moved to their commercial side.
3 107 Q. I see?
4 A. To their ordinary people.
5 108 Q. I see, yes?
6 A. It moved out of there.
7 109 Q. During the period you were talking about they
8 remained your accountants, is that right?
9 A. Yes.
10 110 Q. Did you inform your accountant in SKC of the fact
11 that there was money in this Guernsey company?
12 A. No.
14 A. No.
15 112 Q. During this period then the money was mounting up
16 and staying in the company and you were not
17 returning any of it to The Revenue, is that the
18 position?
20 113 Q. All right. What occurred then? Would you just tell
21 us what occurred briefly over the years then?
22 A. Over the years I occasionally said I wanted some
23 money from Guinness & Mahon and there was always a
24 little bit of a pause before I got it and then I
25 would go in and cash it, collect the monies. It
26 wasn't very much. We used it only for holidays and
27 things like that.
28 114 Q. Who would you contact in Guinness & Mahon?
29 A. Padraig Collery.
19
1 115 Q. Padraig Collery?
2 A. Yes.
3 116 Q. When you wanted money he would give it to you?
4 A. Yes.
5 117 Q. Was it cash he usually gave you?
6 A. Cash.
7 118 Q. Mr. Miller, I know it is over a period, of years,
8 but can you say was it regularly? Was it once a
9 month or was it more frequently?
10 A. Look, I also had a credit card.
11 119 Q. Yes?
12 A. An American Express credit card.
13 120 Q. Yes?
14 A. Which I used outside the country.
15 121 Q. If you would just listen to the question, Mr.
16 Miller?
17 A. Yes, all right.
18 122 Q. I was asking you about going into Guinness & Mahon
19 and seeing Mr. Collery?
20 A. Yes.
21 123 Q. How often did you do that?
22 A. I wouldn't do it -- 6 months, 12 months.
23 124 Q. Every year?
24 A. For a holiday or something like that.
25 125 Q. I see. Yes?
26 A. Yes.
27 126 Q. During this period did you become aware then of
28 Ansbacher? Did you become aware of the existence of
29 ...(INTERJECTION)?
20
1 A. I never heard of "Ansbacher".
2 127 Q. You never heard of it?
3 A. No.
4 128 Q. It was the money you thought was in Guernsey, and
5 this is how you were ...(INTERJECTION)?
6 A. No, the money disappeared from Guernsey I think at
7 the time Traynor left. I don't know this
9 129 Q. Yes?
10 A. Yes, but I know the money left Guernsey.
11 130 Q. Yes?
12 A. And went to the Cayman Islands.
13 131 Q. Yes?
14 A. To Guinness & Mahon Cayman Islands.
15 132 Q. Guinness & Mahon Cayman Islands, yes?
16 A. Yes.
17 133 Q. Mr. Miller, did you regularly get an account of the
18 money that was there?
19 A. No.
20 134 Q. Did you ...(INTERJECTION)?
21 A. No.
22 135 Q. Were you from time to time given a slip of paper
23 like a bank statement with the top of the bank's
24 name ...(INTERJECTION)?
25 A. No.
26 136 Q. Did you never get any statement at all?
27 A. No. All I got -- when I asked for it I got bits of
28 paper.
29 137 Q. Did you know how much money was there?
21
1 A. No.
3 A. No.
4 139 Q. You had no idea?
5 A. Pardon?
6 140 Q. You had not idea?
7 A. I had a vague idea but ...(INTERJECTION).
8 141 Q. What was the vague idea?
9 A. I thought there was about £100,000 there or
10 something.
11 142 Q. Yes?
12 A. But you see the money was being paid in monthly.
13 143 Q. Yes?
14 A. By British Ceedack.
15 144 Q. Yes?
16 A. Half our commission, which was paid monthly.
17 145 Q. Yes?
18 A. And this mounted up.
19 146 Q. Then you would have an idea from -- if they were
20 putting in half your commission each month you would
21 have a idea?
22 A. Well, this may seem very funny but I know I didn't.
23 147 Q. Yes?
24 A. It was just something that was there.
25 148 Q. Yes. At any rate Mr. Miller it is clear then that
26 your knowledge is that the money was transferred to
27 a Cayman company. I think you will agree now that
28 the company that it was transferred to -- its name
29 is now "Ansbacher"?
22
1 A. Yes, its name is now "Ansbacher".
2 149 Q. It was ...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. It was Guinness & Mahon.
4 150 Q. It was Guinness & Mahon?
5 A. Yes.
6 151 Q. Yes. Mr. Miller, it would seem that you just did
7 not -- you had more than one account. Did you know
8 that the reference to your account was "B/Z"? Did
9 you know that that was the ...(INTERJECTION)?
10 A. I had no idea there was any reference at all.
11 152 Q. Yes?
12 A. I thought I had to ring up the Cayman Islands to see
13 what was there.
14 153 Q. Yes. You did not know?
15 A. No, I didn't know. I had no idea.
16 154 Q. When Mr. Traynor moved, left, Guinness & Mahon, did
17 you go to Mr. Traynor personally when you wanted
18 money?
19 A. I only saw Traynor once.
20 155 Q. I see?
21 A. At the beginning of the thing when I went in. It
22 was five minutes and he looked as if to see were my
23 shoes polished.
24 156 Q. Did you see Mr. Collery then?
25 A. Collery was the contact.
26 157 Q. He was your contact?
27 A. Yes.
28 158 Q. When Mr. Collery left Guinness & Mahon then, where
29 did you go?
23
1 A. I went to 42 Fitzwilliam Square.
2 159 Q. 42 Fitzwilliam Square?
3 A. Yes.
4 160 Q. That was CRH Headquarters?
5 A. CRH, yes.
6 161 Q. Yes. Who did you see there?
7 A. Collery.
8 162 Q. I see.
9 A. But I didn't go very often. I went there once to
10 collect money.
11 163 Q. Once?
12 A. Once.
13 164 Q. Was this ...(INTERJECTION)?
14 A. In my recollection I only went once and I used to
15 ring Collery up and say, "Look, Padraig I want
16 £2,000 quid, I am going away."
17 165 Q. Yes?
18 A. Or something like that.
19 166 Q. Yes?
20 A. That is when things changed.
21 167 Q. Yes?
22 A. I stopped going to the bank and I started getting
23 very uneasy, very, very uneasy, about the whole
24 thing.
25 168 Q. Yes?
26 A. Because up to that it was my -- I felt that it was
27 absolutely legal. I was doing the right thing. I
28 was only borrowing against monies which were
29 overseas, that it was going through.
24
1 169 Q. Yes?
2 A. And I had no idea. Then I thought, "Christ almighty
3 what is going on?"
4 170 Q. Yes?
5 A. Bits of paper ...(INTERJECTION).
6 171 Q. When was ...(INTERJECTION)?
7 A. With balances on it ...(INTERJECTION).
8 172 Q. What was it? Bits of paper with balances on it?
9 A. Balances on it, backs of envelopes, things written
10 down ...(INTERJECTION).
11 173 Q. Who would give you those?
12 A. Collery.
13 174 Q. Collery?
14 A. Yes. I would ring up screaming and wanting to know
15 how much money was there.
16 175 Q. Yes, and he gave you bits of paper?
17 A. And I had bits of paper, which I read and tore up.
18 176 Q. Would I be correct in saying that the bits of paper
19 were, in fact, like a bank statement?
20 A. No.
21 177 Q. Were they ...(INTERJECTION)?
22 A. No, not in the least like a bank statement.
23 178 Q. Were they hand written?
24 A. They were just scribbled pieces of paper, "So much
25 in dollars, so much in so and so, and so much in so
26 and so and so and so".
27 179 Q. That is what I am coming to?
28 A. And the total then.
29 180 Q. Did you have money in more than one account?
25
1 A. No.
2 181 Q. Did you not have a dollar account?
3 A. No, no.
4 182 Q. Did you have an account in other currencies, in
5 Deutschemarks?
6 A. They were in Deutschemarks for some reason or
7 another but I don't know why.
8 183 Q. Then ...(INTERJECTION)?
9 A. But there were.
10 184 Q. Just take it in stages?
11 A. Yes, okay.
12 185 Q. Did you not have a Deutschemark account?
13 A. I think there were Deutschemarks in it.
14 186 Q. Did you not have a Yen account, Japanese Yen?
15 A. I do not remember Yen coming into it.
16 187 Q. Did you have an ECU account?
17 A. No. No, I didn't.
18 188 Q. What accounts do you think you had? In what
19 currencies do you think you held the money?
20 A. I honestly don't know.
21 189 Q. Yes?
22 A. And I don't know how it would have got into a
23 different currencies. I don't know whether I am
24 right about that but I think there were various
25 currencies. Well, whether they were -- I know that
26 there were just bits of paper and all I was
27 interested in was the net figure.
28 190 Q. I know?
29 A. You know.
26
1 191 Q. I know that Mr. Miller but I want you to be careful
2 now and I want you to be accurate?
3 A. Well, I am being as accurate as I can.
4 192 Q. Yes?
5 A. I have a vague idea you they were written down in
7 193 Q. No, just listen to the question, Mr. Miller?
8 A. Yes. I see what you are trying to
10 194 Q. Mr. Miller, would you just listen to the question?
11 A. Right, right.
12 195 Q. The question is that you had a number of accounts in
13 different currencies and I am asking you, if that is
14 correct?
15 A. No.
16 196 Q. And that you had ...(INTERJECTION)?
17 A. That is not correct.
18 197 Q. Sorry?
19 A. That I had a number of accounts in different
20 currencies.
21 198 Q. All right. Then you have agreed that you think you
22 had one in German, in Deutschemarks?
23 A. No, no, I only said that I thought there were. I
24 had only one account and that account was
25 with Guinness & Mahon and is it was entirely managed
26 by them.
27 199 Q. No, but in what currency was it?
28 A. As far as I -- it was pounds as far as I was
29 concerned. I wasn't even concerned whether it was
27
1 Irish pounds or English pounds at that time. All I
2 was interested -- I am a very careless sort of guy
3 actually and how -- all I wanted was a net figure
4 in Irish. I suppose I didn't even realize whether
5 -- it was just extra money.
6 200 Q. If you just keep to the question, Mr. Miller?
7 A. Yes.
8 201 Q. That I am asking you?
9 A. Yes , I am just trying to ...(INTERJECTION).
10 202 Q. I am asking you about ...(INTERJECTION)
11 A. I am letting my brain wander over.
12 203 Q. Yes?
13 A. To get an answer for you.
14 204 Q. Yes. The question was: Did you have the money that
15 you held overseas in accounts in foreign currency
16 including German Deutschemarks?
17 A. I don't think I had.
18 205 Q. Did you have them in US dollars?
19 A. No.
20 206 Q. I want to -- if you could get the document at
21 tab 6 please?
22 A. Well, US dollars wouldn't have meant anything to me.
23 207 Q. There is a letter I would like you just to look at
24 of the 23rd October 1990 (Exhibit 1)?
25 A. Yes.
26 208 Q. It is addressed by Mr. Traynor to Mr. Humphries in
27 Guinness & Mahon. It is the second paragraph that I
28 would like you to look at:
29 "Could you also please arrange to let

me have for collection on Thursday two
28
1 lots of Travellers cheques each of us
$1,000 issued in the names of
2 Mr. G. Miller and Mrs. M.V. Miller.
Please debit the cost to "Ansbacher
3 Limited" account number..."
/i
5 And the account number is given?
6 A. Yes .
7 209 Q. In fact, Mr. Miller that account number was a --
8 would you hand the next document to the witness.
9 That account number was a US dollar account number
10 and the reference to the account is B/Z. If you
11 would look at the top there:
12 "B/Z Copy Statement. (Exhibit 2)"
13
14 and it is £2,000. What I am suggesting is that
15 these documents seem to establish that you had an
16 account with "Ansbacher" and that the account was
17 this numbered account, which I have given you, and
18 that it was in US dollars. If you see the reference
19 there at the top it was in "B/Z", that seems to be
20 your account?
21 A. Yes. Well, you say that. I have never heard of
22 "B/Z".
23 210 Q. Yes. You have never heard of it?
24 A. I just don't know.
25 211 Q. Why I am asking you about it is?
26 A. Yes .
27 212 Q. That there is also a document which -- if you would
28 just hand it to the witness. It is an internal
29 "Ansbacher Limited" document, which shows the

1 different accounts that Ansbacher had and if you
2 would hand it to the witness. It is highlighted
3 there in red. There is a reference "B/Z", do you see
4 (Exhibit 3)?
5 A. I see "B/Z", yes.
6 213 Q. The Deutschemark is on the right and number of the
7 account is on the left. I am wondering were those
8 your accounts?
9 A. Yes, I can see no reason for it. The US dollars, I
10 might have been on holidays in Florida or somewhere
11 like that.
12 214 Q. No, I am not concerned about holidays?
13 A. I have no knowledge of these accounts.
14 215 Q. You have no knowledge?
15 A. No.
16 216 Q. Very well then?
17 A. No knowledge whatsoever.
18 217 Q. Very well. There is another letter then on the
19 11th April 1990. Have you got a copy of that, 11th
20 April 1990. It is behind this one. It is an
21 Ansbacher letter to Mr. Humphries (Exhibit 4).
22 MS. MACKEY: It is just before page 28.
23 218 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Just before page 28. Do
24 you see that this is from
25 Mr. Traynor to Mr. Humphries:
26 "Dear David
Could you please arrange to purchase
27 Stg. £45,000 worth of US Dollars and
credit the Dollars purchased to
28 Ansbacher Limited..."
29
1 And it gives the account.
2 "The stg. £45,000 should be debited to

Ansbacher Limited account
3 number 131,546.02."
/i
5 A. Yes .
6 219 Q. These are the accounts numbers which you have
7 indicated before. Do you recall that transaction?
8 A. No.
9 220 Q. You do not?
10 A. No.
11 221 Q. Very well. There was a letter, there was another,
12 transaction. I think, an earlier transaction. Do
13 you recall when Miller & Son got a loan from
14 Guinness & Mahon in 1977? Do you remember that
15 transaction, a loan for £20,000, and it was secured?
16 It was secured by a deposit from one of the
17 subsidiaries of the company. Do you remember that?
18 Do you remember getting a loan (Exhibit 5)?
19 A. I haven't seen these document.
20 222 Q. The documents?
21 A. And I don't, in fact, remember the loan.
22 223 Q. You do not remember the loan?
23 A. No.
24 224 Q. Yes. You do not remember how the loan, if there was
25 a loan, was secured?
26 A. Yes .
27 225 Q. You do not remember that?
28 A. I have seen these documents and what it says on
29 them. The document I got -- this thing came up at
31
1 the Moriarty thing and there was £20,000 loan
2 guaranteed by a house which I owned in 21 Rosmeen
3 Park.
4 226 Q. Yes?
5 A. And there was -- I also saw a copy memorandum from
6 Guinness & Mahon, a internal memorandum, stating
7 this loan, mentioning this loan, with 21 Rosemeen
8 Gardens marked on it and below that there was this
9 statement: "Suitably guaranteed".
10 227 Q. Yes. You do not ...(INTERJECTION)?
11 A. I know nothing about that.
12 228 Q. Right?
13 A. At all.
14 229 Q. I see?
15 A. All I know is that I must have got a loan because I
16 got -- I have a letter, which I got last year from
17 the Moriarty Tribunal, a copy of it, to me saying
18 that they were giving me a loan of £20,000.
19 230 Q. Yes?
20 A. That was never fully drawn as far as I can see.
21 There was only £11,000 and it rolled over to 1978.
22 231 Q. Yes. Well, ...(INTERJECTION)?
23 A. That is, as far as I understand, that thing.
24 232 Q. Right. Mr. Miller, if I could then summarise: The
25 position is that for over a number of years you had
26 money offshore and eventually it came into a company
27 in the Cayman Island, which is now known as
28 "Ansbacher". Am I correct in saying that during
29 this period you would have earned interest on that,
32
1 which you did not return to The Revenue?
2 A. Well, I don't think that is quite correct, Sir. I
3 had money. There was monies overseas.
4 233 Q. Yes?
5 A. In a company.
6 234 Q. Yes?
7 A. Which British Ceedack were paying to look after
8 their interests in Ireland and I gave securities to
9 Guinness & Mahon for monies which I may have
10 borrowed. I can't remember this particular one but
11 there were always securities to Guinness & Mahon by
12 me.
13 235 Q. Was ...(INTERJECTION)?
14 A. And they were personal loans made to me.
15 236 Q. I am not talking about the loans, Mr. Miller. I am
16 talking about the money that was abroad?
17 A. Yes.
18 237 Q. With the ...(INTERJECTION)?
19 A. Well, the money abroad just went there.
20 238 Q. Yes?
21 A. And I didn't know who it belonged to.
22 239 Q. Yes?
23 A. I couldn't make it out.
24 240 Q. Mr. Miller, did it not earn interest?
25 A. It did, of course.
26 241 Q. You did not return it?
27 A. I didn't return it, no, but this money was -- as far
28 as I was concerned it belonged t o the company that
29 had been formed by British Ceedack Limited.
33
1 242 Q. Yes, but do you ...(INTERJECTION)?
2 A. It wasn't anything to do with me.
3 243 Q. Do you think now that you had any liability for tax
4 in relation to it?
5 A. Any tax that I have had -- these figures were gone
6 through when I took the amnesty.
7 244 Q. Sorry, this is what I want to find out. You took
8 the amnesty, did you?
9 A. I took the amnesty.
10 245 Q. Yes?
11 A. In 1994.
12 246 Q. Yes. I see. Very well then?
13 A. And everything was gone through and I am clear. I
14 have a certificate.
15 247 Q. That is what I wanted to get you to assist us on
16 now. In 1994, then, was it? When did you take --
17 when did you approach The Revenue and seek an
18 amnesty?
19 A. 1994. Wasn't it the last amnesty I took? I haven't
20 got my bloody things here with me. I think it
21 was 1994. Wasn't it 1994, the last amnesty I took
22 and I got this ...(INTERJECTION).
23 248 Q. I do not know which, Mr. Miller?
24 A. I think there were two amnesties. I took the second
25 one.
26 249 Q. Sorry, what are you doing Mr. Miller? Mr. Miller,
27 what are you doing?
28 A. The figures are not -- are private.
29 250 Q. Yes?
34
1 A. They were given to me as private. This is the
2 bottom part belonging to me.
3 251 Q. No, Mr. Miller. If — just a moment.
4 A. Right.
5 252 Q. I am not interested in ...(INTERJECTION)?
6 A. All right.
7 253 Q. In the figures.
8 A. Okay.
9 254 Q. I am just interested in ...(INTERJECTION)
10 A. All right.
11 MR. MOHAN: There is no difficulty
12 with this.
14 A. There is no difficulty with my ...(INTERJECTION).
15 MR. MOHAN: That is a copy and I can
16 show you the original of
17 that, Judge.
18 A. I am sorry Judge. I just -- it seemed to me the
19 bottom part was the only part that was cognisant to
20 this.
21 255 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Am I correct in
22 understanding that
23 included in this certificate was a sum in respect of
24 interest which you may have earned?
25 A. It was the whole lot.
26 256 Q. Yes?
27 A. Yes.
28 257 Q. What your evidence is is that in respect of the tax
29 liability for the arrangements, which you have
35
1 described to us, you have availed of the amnesty and
2 have obtained a certificate in relation to it?
3 A. Exactly.
4 258 Q. Very well then.
5 MR. MOHAN: We have the original of
6 that certificate if you
7 want to see it.
8 259 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: We do not need the
9 original. If you could
10 give us a copy we could ...(INTERJECTION)?
11 MR. MOHAN: We will give you a clean
12 copy, yes.
13 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Give us a photostat of it.
14 MR. MOHAN: Yes.
16 MR. MOHAN: What my solicitor might
17 do, because there is a
18 statement, is we can sent on the statement together
19 with that to you later on today in you wish.
20 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: All right. That would be
21 helpful.
22 A. I thought you were aware of this.
23 260 Q. No, Mr. Miller, we are not concerned with the
24 amounts at all?
25 A. Yes.
26 261 Q. What I am concerned about is to ascertain
28 A. Okay.
29 262 Q. Whether or not you have affected a settlement with
36
1 The Revenue in respect of the tax?
2 A. Yes .
3 263 Q. You tell me that you have?
4 A. Yes, yes.
5 264 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Okay. Very well
6 Mr. Miller, that is all
7 want to ask you.
8 A. Yes .
Q
y
10 END OF EXAMINATION OF MR. MILLER BY MR. JUSTICE
11 COSTELLO
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
1 MR. MILLER IS EXAMINED, AS FOLLOWS, BY MS. MACKEY
3 265 Q. MS. MACKEY: I would just like to ask
4 you a few questions
5 Mr. Miller, just to clarify a few things that I was
6 not clear on from your evidence at the start. In
7 relation to the setting up of this scheme -- that
8 you were advised by Mr. Reid in SKC how to set up
9 this scheme. Could you just tell me exactly what he
10 advised you at that time?
11 A. He advised me that it was a scheme where -- I will
12 never get the word right. There was a -- that as I
13 was being paid commission.
14 266 Q. Yes?
15 A. And that there was a lawful scheme that could be set
16 up.
17 267 Q. Right?
18 A. That would avoid tax for me -- avoid me declaring
19 certain amounts of money which were due.
20 268 Q. Yes?
21 A. How should I put it? He just said he knew how he
22 could save me tax.
23 269 Q. Yes?
24 A. I suppose that is what it was.
25 270 Q. Mr. Miller ...(INTERJECTION)?
26 A. And he set up a scheme.
27 271 Q. Sorry, to cut across you now but just not to delay
28 this matter too long. He gave you the impression,
29 or he told you, this was a lawful scheme, is that
38
1 correct?
2 A. Absolutely, I wouldn't have touched it.
3 272 Q. What year did this happen?
4 A. 19 -- now, this I can't tell you because I know that
5 it was early 1970's.
6 273 Q. Early 1970's?
7 A. Yes. It must have been early 1970's and I have no
8 way of finding out. Everything is destroyed.
9 274 Q. Yes?
10 A. I mean we destroyed everything after.
11 275 Q. Now, he ...(INTERJECTION)?
12 A. It was thirty years ago.
13 276 Q. He suggested -- did he actually suggest to you that
14 your distributor in England should set up a company?
15 A. He suggested that a scheme.
16 277 Q. Yes?
17 A. Whereby this company was set up.
18 278 Q. Yes?
19 A. And providing the principals were willing to allow
20 this company to look after their interests in
21 Ireland, they would pay them a certain figure which
22 was half our commission.
23 279 Q. Right. You said, just there towards the end, that
24 you were not sure who owned this money or whether it
25 was yours or not. How ...(INTERJECTION)?
26 A. But I was sure. It wasn't mine.
27 280 Q. How ...(INTERJECTION)?
28 A. Otherwise I would have declared it.
29 281 Q. How were you to benefit from that money?
39
1 A. That was the whole bloody problem of why I took the
2 amnesty.
3 282 Q. Well, no ...(INTERJECTION)?
4 A. I was in a ...(INTERJECTION).
5 283 Q. Sorry, Mr. Miller?
6 A. I was in a catch ...(INTERJECTION).
7 284 Q. Sorry Mr. Miller. Just getting back to the time it
8 was set up. Mr. Reid advised you that this was a
9 method of lawful tax avoidance?
10 A. Of course.
11 285 Q. Now, ...(INTERJECTION)?
12 A. I was told by everybody that it was legal.
13 286 Q. However, you were not giving away your money?
14 A. No.
15 287 Q. It was going to be your money, is that right?
16 A. No, I wasn't. Maybe I would go and live in Spain
17 some time or South Africa of something like that.
18 It was a sort of a ...(INTERJECTION).
19 288 Q. You thought you might use it later on?
20 A. Yes, I didn't need the money.
21 289 Q. Yes. At what stage did it become clear to you that
22 you could draw money from Guinness & Mahon?
23 A. Well, that is a very difficult question to ask. I
24 didn't really -- I didn't think much about it. That
25 money was over there. As I said I mean I didn't go
26 and look into ...(INTERJECTION).
27 290 Q. No, I understand that, but at the time
29 A. No, but you are asking me at which stage did I think
40
1 that I was ...(INTERJECTION).
2 291 Q. Yes?
3 A. I never. I never used it.
4 292 Q. Mr. Miller?
5 A. To my knowledge.
6 293 Q. Sorry, Mr. Miller, you made withdrawals from
7 Guinness & Mahon, is that not correct?
8 A. Yes .
9 294 Q. For travellers cheques?
10 A. Various things like that, yes.
11 295 Q. Yes. Was that money, that you withdraw from
12 Guinness & Mahon, the money that was being paid into
13 the company in Cayman?
14 A. No, no, it was against my guarantees.
15 296 Q. What do you mean by that?
16 A. You had 21 Rosemeen Gardens then. It says quite
17 clearly on the things that Rosemeen Gardens is
18 against securities that Guinness & Mahon had. There
19 was £40,000 quids worth of securities that
20 Guinness & Mahon had. That is what it was given to
21 me against. I have the letters. I have letters to
22 me.
23 297 Q. I am not clear about this, Mr. Miller. When you
24 went to Padraig Collery and you asked him for money,
25 that money coming out of an account that you had, is
26 that not correct?
27 A. Look, it came clear to me ...(INTERJECTION).
28 298 Q. No?
29 A. That there was -- excuse me now, you are asking me

1 questions.
2 299 Q. I am asking you did the money ...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. No, just a moment now. I am here ...(INTERJECTION).
4 300 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Miller?
5 A. No, but what ...(INTERJECTION).
6 301 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Miller, would you
7 keep quite for the moment?
8 A. All right. Yes, Okay.
9 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Miller, I told you at
10 the beginning that this is
11 not a Court
12 A. Yes •
13 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: And it is not a Tribunal.
14 A. Right, Okay
15 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: You are here to assist us
16 because we have to report
17 this .
18 A. Yes . Well, I ... (INTERJECTION) .
19 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: No, Mr. Miller, would you
20 listen to the question?
21 MR. MOHAN: I wonder if I could have
22 an opportunity. It might
23 in ease in <cooperation of the ...(INTERJECTION).
24 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes .
25 MR. MOHAN: If I could have five
26 minutes with my client.
27 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. Very well.
28 MR. MOHAN: Yes .
29 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: You can go into your room.

1 MR. MOHAN: Yes.
2 SHORT ADJOURNMENT
4 302 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes, Mr. Miller?
5 A. I am sorry about that. I am getting highly strung.
6 303 Q. Yes.
7 MS. MACKEY: That is all right. I
8 understand.
9 A. I am getting carried away with this whole business.
10 MS. MACKEY: Yes.
12 A. I haven't been at a court for 20 years.
13 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Very well, Mr. Miller.
14 A. Yes, look ...(INTERJECTION).
15 304 Q. MS. MACKEY: Actually Mr. Miller it
16 would actually facilitate
17 the whole thing?
18 A. Yes.
19 305 Q. And make it shorter if I could just ask you
20 questions and you could just answer the specific
21 question?
22 A. Yes. Right, well ...(INTERJECTION).
23 306 Q. And if you feel that the questions is such that you
24 need to give me a further explanation just say to
25 me, you know, "I can't answer that yes or no and I
26 would like to elaborate," then we will get along, I
27 think, quicker?
28 A. Right.
29 307 Q. Is that is all right?
43
1 A. All right.
2 308 Q. The question that I was asking you before the break
3 there was, whether at what stage -- maybe I could
4 rephrase it. When did you first come in contact
5 with Guinness & Mahon in connection with this whole
6 matter, roughly?
7 A. Early 1970's.
8 309 Q. Early 1970's?
9 A. Yes, I had had an account with them. I think I
10 should qualify that. I had an account with them
11 from 1966.
12 310 Q. Yes?
13 A. I know that because ...(INTERJECTION).
14 311 Q. With Guinness & Mahon itself?
15 A. In Guinness & Mahon itself.
16 312 Q. Yes?
17 A. Yes, I was always a customer there.
18 313 Q. Right.
19 A. The fact that they got involved with that and that I
20 had an account was purely coincidental.
21 314 Q. Right. In the early 1970's you say you came in
22 contact with them in connection with this matter.
23 Was that in contact with Mr. Traynor?
24 A. I knew that Guinness & Mahon -- I knew that
25 Guinness & Mahon were managing the fund but
27 315 Q. How did you know that?
28 A. Because it was being managed by Guinness & Mahon in
29 the Isle Of Man.

1 316 Q. However, when did you learn that it was been managed
2 by Guinness & Mahon in the Isle Of Man?
3 A. When the company was formed in the early 1970's.
4 317 Q. You knew then that Guinness & Mahon were managing
5 it?
6 A. Yes.
7 318 Q. Yes. When did you meet Mr. Traynor for the first
8 time?
9 A. As far as I can recollect it was in the early
10 1970's. I am trying to think about it. I know
11 where I meet him. I know it was in CRH' s head
12 office.
13 319 Q. Right. How did that arise?
14 A. It would have when I started to get -- in fact it
15 arose I think because somebody in Guinness & Mahon,
16 probably Padraig, I couldn't be absolutely sure on
17 this, brought me over to be vetted by Traynor.
18 320 Q. Why did somebody, whoever it was, bring you over to
19 be vetted by Traynor?
20 A. To look after this account which -- to look after
21 this account in Jersey.
22 321 Q. Well ...(INTERJECTION)?
23 A. Or to see if I was a fit person to -- I suppose to
24 be honest with you it would be -- if I was a fit
25 person to be a member of what they -- just to
26 associate with him or that he would associate with
27 or he would accept me.
28 322 Q. Was this before this before the setting up of the
29 scheme in Jersey?
45
1 A. No, no, it was -- I can't honestly remember but --
2 no, it was after it I am sure. It was definitely
3 after it.
4 323 Q. You went into Guinness & Mahon and somebody there
5 brought you over to see Mr. Traynor?
6 A. Yes.
7 324 Q. Why did you go into Guinness & Mahon on that
8 occasion?
9 A. I have no idea. I have no idea. This was 30 years
10 ago. 25/30 years ago.
11 325 Q. You cannot remember?
12 A. No idea. I honestly haven't -- I ...(INTERJECTION).
13 326 Q. Okay. No, you cannot remember, that is fine?
14 A. Yes.
15 327 Q. I mean just say that you cannot remember?
16 A. Right.
17 328 Q. And it is a long time ago?
18 A. It is a long time ago.
19 329 Q. We appreciate that?
20 A. Yes.
21 330 Q. Anyway what you do remember is that you went to
22 Guinness & Mahon, for whatever reason you cannot now
23 remember, but somebody from there brought you to
24 Mr. Traynor in CRH?
26 331 Q. Can you remember what transpired there?
27 A. Yes, he talked to me about the weather.
28 332 Q. Yes?
29 A. It was a nice day and where had I been on my
46
1 holidays.
2 333 Q. Yes?
3 A. And it lasted five minutes and I went out and
4 wondered what all that was about.
5 334 Q. Did he not say anything to you about
7 A. No.
8 335 Q. The purpose of your visit?
9 A. No, nothing.
10 336 Q. Did you ask him anything ...(INTERJECTION)?
11 A. No.
12 337 Q. About the purpose of the visit?
13 A. No. I thought it was the most peculiar interview I
14 had ever had.
15 338 Q. What happened after that interview then in relation
16 to this affair?
17 A. Sorry?
18 339 Q. What happened after? What was the next step after
19 that interview?
20 A. There were no particular developments except
21 everything just went on. I suppose I don't know
22 what it was all about but that is when I met him,
23 the only time I met Traynor.
24 340 Q. That is the only time you met Traynor?
25 A. I thought he had a very big office.
26 341 Q. To get back to the question I asked you first,
27 following that, at some stage after that, you
28 became aware that you could withdraw money from
29 Guinness & Mahon?
47
1 A. Yes.
2 342 Q. Right. How did ...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. With my own -- with my securities. I had to give
4 them securities.
5 343 Q. The money that you were withdrawing was what? Was
6 it a loan?
7 A. It was a loan.
8 344 Q. It was not your money?
9 A. It was a loan.
10 345 Q. A loan made to you by who?
11 A. By Guinness & Mahon.
12 346 Q. In Ireland?
13 A. In Ireland.
14 347 Q. Have you documents to show that you got these loans
15 and Guinness & Mahon in Ireland?
16 A. Absolutely.
17 348 Q. Can you provide those to us?
18 A. I forgot my briefcase but they are at home.
19 349 Q. Yes?
20 A. I got them out and I ...(INTERJECTION)
21 MR. MOHAN: They were again given to
22 us ...(INTERJECTION)
23 A. Given to us by ...(INTERJECTION).
24 MR. MOHAN: By the Moriarty. We will
25 give to you what they gave
26 to us and again will show what the witness is saying
27 in relation to loans draw downs secured against the
28 property. We will give you the documentation.
29 MS. MACKEY: All right.
48
1 MR. MOHAN: And on reading them if you
2 wish to ask any further
3 questions we will return obviously.
4 350 Q. MS. MACKEY: Right. Very good. So
6 A. They were letters to me acknowledging my loan and on
7 such and such terms with whatever security I had
8 given them.
9 351 Q. Mr. Miller, the withdrawals or the money that you
10 obtained from Guinness & Mahon in travellers
11 cheques, they were borrowings?
12 A. They were borrowings, yes.
13 352 Q. Yes. When did you close your Ansbacher account,
14 Mr. Miller?
15 A. Well, when I took the -- I hadn't got an account as
16 far as I was concerned with Ansbacher. I retired in
17 1974 and the money ceased going into the Isle Of Man
18 company.
19 353 Q. Yes?
20 A. Because I sold the business.
21 354 Q. Yes?
22 A. And we informed the people that this account was
23 there and it belonged to Ceedack but it was stopped.
24 355 Q. Yes?
25 A. Or Ceedack must have informed them that there was an
26 account but the whole thing changed.
27 356 Q. Yes?
28 A. I sold the business.
29 357 Q. Yes?
49
1 A. And it stopped then.
2 358 Q. Yes?
3 A. Anything in ...(INTERJECTION).
4 359 Q. Mr. Miller, you ...(INTERJECTION)?
5 A. So, the money ...(INTERJECTION).
6 360 Q. You have shown us a certificate that indicates that
7 you availed of the amnesty, the last tax amnesty.
8 That was in respect, you have told us, of the
9 interest that accrued on that account, the offshore
10 account, is that correct?
11 A. No.
12 361 Q. No? It including that, was that your evidence to
13 us?
14 A. The whole lot of the money was paid and I have paid
15 my dues to The Revenue Commissioners.
16 362 Q. I understand that?
17 A. And I am now clear.
18 363 Q. I understand that?
19 A. With The Revenue Commissioners. My tax affairs are
20 in order.
21 364 Q. Yes, I understand that?
22 A. Absolutely.
23 365 Q. However, part of what is covered by the settlement
24 that you made with The Revenue was interest that
25 accrued on the Ansbacher account, is that correct?
26 A. The total amount I -- there was a deal done or there
27 was -- I became uneasy and had been uneasy since I
28 started getting bits of paper and I couldn't get a
29 business like reply to where or what this money or
50
1 where my money was coming from.
2 366 Q. Yes?
3 A. Or what was going on at all.
4 367 Q. Yes?
5 A. And this business of collecting monies in hotels and
6 things ...(INTERJECTION).
7 368 Q. Yes?
8 A. Was not on for me.
9 369 Q. Yes?
10 A. And I wanted out.
11 370 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Could I stop you. You are
12 going to give us a
13 document which indicates the basis on which the
14 certificate was given, is that right?
15 MR. MOHAN: I am going to give you the
16 certificate, as I
17 understand it and these are my instructions that, at
18 the time, and I am paraphrasing some of the evidence
19 to this point which may be useful and you may wish
20 to ask some questions on it, that he had misgivings
21 at a point in time. He went in. He used SKC,
22 Mr. Reid, and he went into Mr. Reid at that time and
23 he said, "I want this to stop."
24 371 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Mohan, could I
25 interrupt you?
26 MR. MOHAN: Yes.
27 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: The witness clearly stated
28 what Ms. Mackey has
29 indicated to him in answer to me.

1 MR. MOHAN: Which is?
2 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Which is, that part of the
3 tax amnesty that he got a
4 certificate for was in respect of tax on interest
5 abroad.
6 MR. MOHAN: Yes.
7 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Which he had not
8 disclosed.
9 MR. MOHAN: Yes.
10 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: That is what he said.
11 MR. MOHAN: Well, ...(INTERJECTION)
12 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: He is going back on that
13 now.
14 MR. MOHAN: Well, my understanding --
15 you may take that from it
16 but my understanding is evidence was as follows
17 ...(INTERJECTION)
18 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Sorry, Mr. Mohan. We seem
19 to be -- I thought we were
20 going to be able to finish this very quickly. It
21 looks as if we cannot now. May I take over?
22 MS. MACKEY: Yes, please do.
23 372 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Miller, I think there
24 may have been -- I did not
25 think there was a misunderstanding but I understand
26 that there may be. I want to you listen very
27 carefully to the questions. The money which you had
28 abroad was earning interest. You did not declare
29 this to the Revenue. You then went to the Revenue
52
1 and availed of the tax amnesty. I understood you to
2 tell me earlier today that in relation to the
3 amnesty that included the tax which you had not paid
4 on the interest which had been earned abroad, was
5 that correct?
7 373 Q. That is correct.
8 MR. MOHAN: Included, yes.
10 MR. MOHAN: It was the entire sum?
11 A. It was the entire sum.
12 MR. MOHAN: Yes.
13 A. Everything ...(INTERJECTION)
14 MR. MOHAN: Yes.
15 A. Everything was completely declared to
16 The Revenue Commissioners.
17 MR MOHAN: That is the point I wanted
18 to ...(INTERJECTION)
19 A. The whole thing.
20 MR. MOHAN: Subject to make — was
21 that he went into Mr. Reid
22 and he wanted it closed down. So, whatever money
23 was there was then declared to The Revenue and
24 interest paid on it. If that then included tax that
25 may have been due in relation to interest earned so
26 be it, but it was the entire amount. It simply is
27 not a matter of ...(INTERJECTION).
28 374 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I am just carrying out the
29 duties imposed on us by
53
1 the Court?
2 A. Yes.
3 375 Q. We are to ascertain who held these interests abroad
4 and whether tax was paid on them. I understand from
5 your evidence that you had monies abroad; that tax
6 was not paid on them; that you now admit that tax
7 should have been paid; that you -- it was included
8 in the amnesty that you entered into with The
9 Revenue, is that correct?
11 376 Q. Thank you.
12 MR. MOHAN: It was done so, I think,
13 in fact, by SKC, who
14 processed the amnesty.
15 A. SKC -- I went to SKC and said, "What am I going to
16 do?" He said, "Don Reid is the one to settle this
17 thing." He settled it all up and he settled it. He
18 went to the Revenue Commissioners, spent some time
19 about it. He explained everything. He got all the
20 figures back from whatever it was necessary,
21 answered all the questions and we paid up.
22 MR. MOHAN: That is simply the point I
23 wanted to make.
24 A. And I said, "Thanks goodness we are finished with
25 this."
26 377 Q. MS. MACKEY: Very good. Then
27 Mr. Miller, at what point
28 in time did you begin to contact Mr. Collery?
29 A. Mr. Collery as far as I was concerned was always
54
1 there.
2 378 Q. When you say "always"?
3 A. In Guinness & Mahon.
4 379 Q. Yes, but ...(INTERJECTION)?
5 A. He was an employee of Guinness & Mahon.
6 380 Q. Yes?
7 A. It was with him that I dealt with the thing.
8 381 Q. Yes?
9 A. Obviously, I dealt with the banking people when I
10 was getting -- but Collery -- I just don't know. I
11 met Collery. He was just part of the furniture.
12 382 Q. Were you introduced to him by somebody else there?
13 A. There was nothing particular, "This is Paddy," or
14 whatever. He was just there.
15 383 Q. Yes. You contacted him for what purpose generally
16 speaking?
17 A. I didn't contact him for any particular purpose. He
18 was just there. I didn't contact him until he
19 left Guinness & Mahon and then he was the only
20 person I could contact. I just went into
21 Guinness & Mahon and did my usual trading as you
22 would in a bank.
23 384 Q. Right?
24 A. "Hello Tom," or "Hello Fred," or whoever.
25 385 Q. When Mr. Collery left, why did you not continue to
26 do that?
27 A. Well, because Collery had been -- had left Guinness
28 & Mahon and he wasn't there and he turned out -- he
29 said he was managing the affairs now.

1 386 Q. What affairs were they?
2 A. Well, obviously the affairs of the accounts which
3 were overseas, the whole ...(INTERJECTION).
4 387 Q. At that point you knew, in fact, that it was not
5 Guinness & Mahon that was ...(INTERJECTION)?
6 A. Look, I knew all along.
7 388 Q. Yes?
8 A. All right, no. Obviously, yes.
9 389 Q. Yes. When did you it -- it was in 1993 then that
10 you dealt with Mr. Collery or just before the tax
11 amnesty that you dealt with Mr. Collery for the last
12 time?
13 A. No, I had been dealing with Mr. Collery for some
14 time.
15 390 Q. Yes?
16 A. Yes.
17 391 Q. You were going to see him in CRH, I think you said?
18 A. I don't think I actually went to CRH. I went
19 to CRH to pick up money once but I would ring him up
20 in CRH and say ...(INTERJECTION).
21 392 Q. Yes?
22 A. "Give me some dough".
23 393 Q. Yes. On the occasion in which you went there, to
24 pick up some money, was that -- was that during
25 working hours, weekends, evenings can you remember?
26 A. I went once.
27 394 Q. Yes?
28 A. I didn't go regularly. I went once.
29 395 Q. Yes, but on that one occasion?
56
1 A. And as far as -- I don't -- somebody there handed me
2 -- it must have been during working hours because
3 there were people moving around the offices and
4 somebody handed me a paper envelope.
5 396 Q. Did you not meet Mr. Collery himself?
6 A. No, not on that occasion.
7 397 Q. Can you remember who handed you the paper envelope?
8 A. It was a woman.
9 398 Q. Was it Ms. Williams?
10 A. I have no idea.
11 399 Q. You do not know?
12 A. No.
13 400 Q. Do you know Ms. Williams?
14 A. I don't know Ms. Williams.
15 401 Q. Right. I do not have any more questions Mr. Miller.
16 Thank you very much.
17 A. All right.
18 END OF EXAMINATION OF MR. MILLER BY MS. MACKEY

1 Q
20 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Miller, thank you for
21 your attendance today. We
22 require you to sign the transcript of this evidence.
23 If will be typed up and it will be available in the
24 next couple of days and we will get word to you and
25 if you would come in and sign it.
26 MR. MILLER: Thank you very much. I
27 apologise
28 ...(INTERJECTION)
29 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Very well Mr. Miller.

1 MR. MILLER: For getting very
2 ...(INTERJECTION)
3 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: All right Mr. Miller.
4 MR. MILLER: I am very highly strung at
5 the moment.
6 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I understand.
7 MR. MOHAN: We will send on the
8 documentation. If there
9 is any issues that arise, of course, we will be
10 available for re-interview.
11 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Very well. Thank you very
12 much.
13 MR. MOHAN: Thank you very much.
14 MR. MILLER: Thank you.
16
17 THE EXAMINATION WAS THEN CONCLUDED.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
58
T H E E X A M I N A T I O N WAS TgBK^CQNCLUDEn
Qt s
.y
\ ^ G-vWv.WOJV^
X"
SoVJs.CvVc.v-
7 ft^r-O.
Ansbacher Limited
A timber cf tht Bmry Aiubachtr Holdbtgt PLC Merchant Banking Grotp
P.O. Box 887, Oiud CkymM. British Wot India

Please reply to: Phone (109) MM6S3/4
42 Fitzwilliam Square, Totac CP4MS
Rue (809) 949-7946
Dublin 1 (809) 949^5267
Tel: 765144/763065
Fax: 612035
23rd October, 1990.

Mm David Humphries, Esq.,
Guinness A Mahon Limited,
17 College Green,
DUBLIN 2.
Dear David,
Could you please arrange to let me have for collection on
r Thursday 25th October IR£500.00 in. cash.

No.13154602.
/•Could
w u i u you
y o u also
a x s u please
p i e a s e arrange
Please debit
the Sterling cost q£ this to Ansbacher "Limited Account
a c c a n ^ B to
l u let
. jS on Thursday two lots of Travellers Cheques, each for
mee have
jlcsl. m n a v e jfor
l u j . collection
goxj
JC DS$1 fOOP JLssued in the names of Mr. G. Miller and

Q Mrs. MTV. Miller. Please debit the cost to Anpbacher
^ Limited Account No ."l 3154009.
)
Yours sincerely,
J.D. Traynor.
Appendix XV (91) (l)(c)
• r
rl rt
M - •
»
..• •. / n — .• •
f O U u u i ^ * / 1, .
.'JkESBMCBEB LXKETSD 31.12.89 ' •' '
Gross
s : t-r.
-'••"••'' x/c Na TVW
Re B/Z- .CM . 298,920.63 Cr

M3154007—Ej± Call D/J -10,641,009.47 Or
13154008—'
l Jan: Call 7.''•>• Re B/Z- .06$ 107.921.S1 Cr
' 13154009 --» Ext Call D/A Be B/Z*
0.00
J BCD-j .~72.788.25 car
Uia4970—Ert Call'p/A-^S® B/Z
Appendix XV (91) (l)(e)
A Member of the Henry Ambccher H*
P.O. Box 187, Grand Cayman, Britiih Wot Indies
Please reply to: Phone (809) 949-4653/4
42 Fitzwilliam Square, Telex CP 4303
Dublin 2. RUB (809) 949-7946
(809) 949*3267
Tel: 765144/763065
Fax: 612035
11th April, 1990.

17 College Green, ^v
DUBLIN 2. ^
i -
(JCLQ-LA a.
Dear David,
Could you please arrange to purchase Stg.£45,000.00 worth
of U.S. Dollars and credit the Dollars purchased to Ansbacher
Limited Account No.13154009.
The Stg.£45,000.00 should be debited to Ansbacher Limited
Account No.13154602.
Yours sincerely,
J.D. Traynor.J^^
MUQPHY& SOLICITORS
Mou;n 1
91 U?pe? ) 1 ,.
i j N i ^rl
DunLu.
Co. LJriL'i;
Tel: 23u), •) >tj ' •;>:•! I M M
D.K. c/ri
The Inspectors, SM/EY

OUR RliF:
Office of the Inspectors to Ansbacher (Cayman) Ltd.,
3rd Floor, ,, C/M13/NSPM
YOUR RIT
Trident House,
Blackrock, DATE:
County Dublin. 06/12/01
Dear Sirs,
We refer to your letter of the 16th of November, 2001 to Geoffrey Miller of Blooms Lodge,
Sandycove, County Dublin, whom we attended with at the hearing appertaining to Mr. Miller's
involvement with Ansbacher (Cayman) Ltd.
At the hearing, Mr. Miller advised that he had availed of the amnesty pursuant to the Waiver of
Certain Tax, Interest and Penalties Act, 1993 and at the hearing furnished evidence of payment.
For your reference, we enclose a copy of the Certificate furnished to Mr. Miller pursuant to
Section 2(4)(a) of the Waiver of Certain Tax, Interest and Penalties Act, 1993. In the
circumstances, we are of the view that the record should indicate that Mr. Miller availed of the
provisions of the Waiver of Certain Tax, Interest and Penalties Act, 1993.
Yours faithfully,
MURPHYS Solicit.
End..../
STAN MURPHY, B.A.. LL.B. VALERIE McCRANN, B.A.. H.D.E. FIONA LEE, B.A. Hons. ALVA McGARRT, B.A. Hons.
Commr. tor Oaths, Notary Public ~~ - Commr. for Oaths

VAT No. IE 48795531
Appendix XV (92) Mr Jerome Morris
Jerome Morris.
a) Transcript of evidence of Mr Stephen Morris dated 29 March 2000.
b) Statement of Mr Stephen Morris of 1 March 2000.
c) Letter of 19 January 1999 - Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited to Mr Stephen

Morris.
d) Indemnity of 6 August 1996 by Optima Securities in favour of Ansbacher

(Cayman) Limited.
e) Letter of 6 August 1996 - Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited to Optima

Securities Limited.
PRIVATE EXAMINATION OF MR. STEPHEN MORRIS
UNDER OATH
ON WEDNESDAY, 2 9TH MARCH 2000
Stenographer
PRESENT
MS. MACKEY BL
Interviewee: MR. STEPHEN MORRIS
Represented by: MR. FRED JACKSON
ORPEN FRANKS & COMPANY
SOLICITORS LAND AGENTS
30 BURLINGTON ROAD
DUBLIN 4
I N D E X
WITNESS EXAMINATION
MR. S. MORRIS MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO
MS. MACKEY
1 THE EXAMINATION COMMENCED, AS FOLLOWS, ON WEDNESDAY,
2 29TH MARCH 2000
4 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Good morning Mr. Morris.
5 MR. MORRIS: Morning.
6 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: My name is Declan Costello
7 and on my right is
8 Ms. Mackey.
9 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
10 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: We are two of the
11 Inspectors.
12 MR. MORRIS: Okay.
13 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: That have been appointed
14 by The High Court.
15 MR. MORRIS: Right.
16 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I should explain to you,
17 Mr. Morris, that this is
18 not a Court. It is not a Tribunal. It is an
19 interview.
21 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: It is going to be an
22 interview under oath.
23 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
24 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: And I will ask Ms. Cummins
25 to deliver the oath in a
26 moment.
28 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: However, I should explain
29 to you that if at any time
4
1 you want us to stop asking a question on which you
2 wish to get legal advice from your solicitor, we
3 will stop.
4 MR. MORRIS: Okay.
5 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: If your solicitor wishes
6 to intervene at any time
7 he can indicate this to us and we will stop.
8 MR. MORRIS: Okay.
9 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: And he can talk to you.
10 MR. MORRIS: Yes.
11 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I will ask Ms. Cummins now
12 to deliver the oath to
13 you.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
5
1 MR. STEPHEN MORRIS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED
2 AS FOLLOWS BY MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO
4 1 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Morris, it occurred to
5 us that it might shorten
6 our interview if you could tell us briefly about the
7 settlement with the Revenue. We are not concerned
8 with any of the figures?
9 A. Right.
10 2 Q. At all?
11 A. Yes.
12 3 Q. What we are concerned about is with regard to the
13 dates to which the settlement related to?
14 A. Yes.
15 4 Q. And also the source of the taxable income?
16 A. Yes.
17 5 Q. Which was part of the settlement?
18 A. Right.
19 6 Q. As I understand, if I could just very briefly
20 summarise two points, we know that in 1976...
21 A. Yes.
22 7 Q. ... that money was transferred to Jersey?
23 A. Yes.
24 8 Q. We know that in 1989 a trust was established in the
25 Cayman Islands?
26 A. Yes.
27 9 Q. Could you tell me in relation to the settlement, did
28 the settlement relate to undeclared taxable income
29 dating back to 1976?
6
1 A. Possibly, yes, yes. I think it probably would have.
2 Some of it would be, yes, undeclared.
3 10 Q. When you say "possibly" have you actually reached a
4 settlement with the Revenue?
5 A. Well, we have made a substantial payment and we are
6 in the process of finalising a settlement with them.
7 11 Q. Yes.
8 A. It is not fixed up yet. It is in the process of
9 being done.
10 12 Q. What I wish to ascertain is whether or not there is
11 undeclared taxable income relating to the period
12 from 1976?
13 A. Yes.
14 13 Q. And is that so? Is that part of the arrangement?
15 A. Well... (INTERJECTION) .
16 14 Q. Acknowledgment that you are making to the Revenue?
17 A. We have given them everything back from 1976 or, you
18 know, from whatever date it is. We have given them
19 everything right back, up to date.
20 15 Q. No. However, is it from the time that you first had
21 an interest in an entity in the Channel Islands
22 in 1976?
23 A. Yes.
24 16 Q. Is that so?
26 17 Q. Yes. You have given them all your records relating
27 to that?
28 A. Absolutely, yes, yes.
29 18 Q. Did...(INTERJECTION)?
7
1 MR. JACKSON: Mr. Costello?
3 MR. JACKSON: Might I intervene?
5 MR. JACKSON: What has happened to date
6 is the Revenue haven't got
7 all the files that you have.
9 MR. JACKSON: As far as we know. They
10 may have got them
11 otherwise.
13 MR. JACKSON: However, we have made, or
14 my client has made, a
15 payment on account of what he thinks is the tax that
16 would be payable from the time this started in 1976.
18 MR. JACKSON: Calculations made have
19 gone in this week as to
20 how that was calculated.
22 MR. JACKSON: However, the Revenue
23 haven't come back.
25 MR. JACKSON: However, they have said
26 that they are going to
27 deal with them directly.
29 MR. JACKSON: They are not taking it,
8
1 any further unless they
2 find something that they should take further, they
3 are not taking it further. They are going to make a
4 settlement.
6 MR. JACKSON: That is...(INTERJECTION).
7 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: That is helpful.
8 MR. JACKSON: That is the position at
9 the moment. However, they
10 haven't, as far as I know, been given all the
11 volumes that you have been given directly.
13 MR. JACKSON: Because...(INTERJECTION).
14 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: That is helpful because as
15 I understand what you have
16 said is that your client has indicated to the
17 Revenue a liability. He has accepted a liability.
18 MR. JACKSON: Absolutely.
19 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: From 1976?
20 A. Yes.
21 MR. JACKSON: Yes.
22 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: In respect of undeclared
23 taxable income.
25 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Which he personally has
26 now got to recover.
27 MR. JACKSON: I am talking about him and
28 his brothers.
29 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: We will come to that in a
9
1 moment.
2 MR. JACKSON: Yes.
3 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: The admission, as far as
4 Mr. Morris is concerned,
5 is that he is liable to pay tax.
6 MR. JACKSON: Yes.
7 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: In respect of income from
8 1976.
9 MR. JACKSON: Yes.
10 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: The amount of that income
11 is a matter for
12 negotiation.
14 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: And what is to be paid in
15 respect of it is a matter
16 for negotiation.
17 MR. JACKSON: Yes, and those
18 negotiations have started.
19 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. Does the acceptance
20 of liability for income
21 tax also continue in relation to the trust that was
22 established in 1989?
25 MR. JACKSON: It is a payment up to
26 date. I
27 mean...(INTERJECTION).
28 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Up to date, yes.
29 MR. JACKSON: Yes. The idea is to kill
10
1 any tax liability that
2 arises.
4 MR. JACKSON: From these funds.
6 MR. JACKSON: Having come into existence
7 when they came back from
8 abroad.
10 MR. JACKSON: When the brothers came
11 back from abroad and put
12 these, left these, monies abroad.
13 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. You see what I am
14 trying to consider now is
15 to what extent this bears on our task, on our
16 interview, here today.
18 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Because, obviously, it is
19 very important from our
20 point of view that we know now that it is accepted
21 by Mr. Morris that his involvement since 1976 meant
22 that he incurred a tax liability.
24 A. Yes.
25 19 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I think I should ask
26 Mr. Morris to be a little
27 more specific about what the arrangements were?
28 Mr. Morris, we have got the documents in relation
29 to the trust?
11
1 A. Yes.
2 20 Q. That was set up in 1989?
3 A. Yes.
4 21 Q. However, we have no documents relating to any
5 arrangement that was made in 1976?
6 A. Yes.
7 22 Q. Other than the letter that you left?
8 A. Yes.
9 23 Q. That has been referred to?
10 A. Yes.
11 24 Q. Do you remember did you establish a trust?
12 A. No, not in 1976.
13 25 Q. No?
14 A. No, no, not that I know of. Was there a trust? No.
15 MR. JACKSON: We don't know of any trust
16 in 1976 and we don't, as
17 far as I know any way when Mr. Morris spoke to me,
18 know of any reason why the trust came into
19 existence.
20 26 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. We will come to that
21 later?
22 A. Yes.
23 27 Q. If there was no trust in 1976?
24 A. No.
25 28 Q. You had funds in the Nova Scotia Bank?
26 A. Yes.
27 29 Q. You decided to move them?
29 30 Q. You decided to move them into Guinness & Mahon?
12
1 A. Yes .
2 31 Q. Would you just tell me whom in Guinness & Mahon did
3 you discuss this with and how did it come about that
4 you decided to do this?
5 A. The first person I probably spoke to or the first --
6 of three people that I would have known in
7 Guinness & Mahon, was Ru Leonard, Pat O'Dwyer and
8 Martin Keane or in reverse order Ru Leonard, Martin
9 Keane and then eventually Pat O'Dwyer. I think that
10 would have been the way.
11 32 Q. Yes. Tell me what was agreed?
12 A. Well, that we would transfer whatever money we had
13 to Guinness & Mahon. As far as we were concerned it
14 was Guinness & Mahon we were dealing with.
15 33 Q. However, there was a bit more than that. It was
16 going to go to the Channel Islands?
18 34 Q. Tell me everything that was said to you about it?
19 A. Well, they would have said, you know, they asked us
20 where we had some money already and that they would
21 probably -- the interest would have been more from
22 Guinness & Mahon, and that it would be in the
23 Channel Islands or Jersey or whatever way they would
24 have put it. I can't remember whether they said
25 Channel Islands or whatever way they put it.
26 35 Q. Was anything said about the tax situation?
27 A. Not that I can recall. No, not that I can recall.
28 36 Q. You just deposited money then?
1 37 Q. Where you?
2 A. Yes.
3 38 Q. Did they tell you that they had a company in
4 the Channel Islands?
5 A. No, no.
6 39 Q. We have this letter that has been referred to
7 in which this company called Sierra Investments
8 Limited...(INTERJECTION)?
9 A. I remember that being mentioned at some stage, yes,
10 all right. I can't say that happened immediately or
11 not but certainly I knew there was something
12 existing called Sierra Investments, yes.
13 40 Q. Well... (INTERJECTION) ?
14 A. But not from the very word so no...(INTERJECTION).
15 41 Q. Where did you think the money was going to be
16 deposited?
17 A. In Guinness & Mahon in the Channel Islands.
18 42 Q. Yes. Were you told they had a bank there, a
19 subsidiary bank?
20 A. I would think so, yes.
21 43 Q. Yes?
22 A. Yes.
23 44 Q. As far as you were concerned the money then was
24 going to earn interest?
26 45 Q. In there?
28 46 Q. As far as you know there was no trust there?
29 A. Not that I can ever recall signing anything for a
14
1 trust, no.
2 47 Q. Yes?
3 A. I certainly remember the name Sierra Investments all
4 right from the earlier days.
5 48 Q. Yes. When you wanted to draw money from the funds
6 that were lodged in Jersey?
7 A. Yes.
8 4 9 Q. How did you go about it?
9 A. Well, we probably would have rang -- Martin Keane
10 would have been one person that I recall from the
11 earlier days.
12 50 Q. Martin who?
13 A. Martin Keane.
14 51 Q. Keane, yes?
15 A. From Guinness & Mahon.
16 52 Q. Yes?
17 A. Rue Leonard.
18 53 Q. Yes?
19 A. Who was the accountant there.
20 54 Q. Yes?
21 A. Or at some stage later Pat O'Dwyer.
22 55 Q. Yes. You would ring them?
23 A. Ring them and maybe if you wanted some money,
24 a draft or some cash, you could get it from
26 56 Q. How would you go about it, Mr. Morris?
27 A. Just ring up and then maybe go in. Just call in and
28 collect it.
29 57 Q. You would call in?
15
1 A. Call in, yes.
2 58 Q. Would they give you cash if you wanted cash?
3 A. Well, possibly if you wanted cash you could get cash
4 or sometimes it might have even been a draft. I just
5 can't remember but it could have been either.
6 59 Q. If it was a draft who was it payable by, do you
7 remember?
8 A. It would have been -- I would imagine it would
9 have been -- it definitely would have been a
10 Guinness & Mahon headed draft.
11 60 Q. Guinness & Mahon headed draft?
12 A. Yes.
13 61 Q. Did you know whether it was the Guinness & Mahon in
14 Dublin draft or not?
15 A. I don't know that.
16 62 Q. You do not know?
17 A. No, no, no.
18 63 Q. You cannot remember that?
19 A. No, no.
20 64 Q. Over the years then you would have drawn money in
21 the way you have indicated?
22 A. Small amounts.
23 65 Q. Small amounts?
24 A. Yes.
25 66 Q. What about lodging further sums to the fund?
26 A. There was nothing lodged after, I would say,
27 approximately 1978, nothing whatsoever. Nothing
28 after the late 1970s.
29 67 Q. Yes?
16
1 A. And there was money withdrawn, Okay, probably
2 sometime but there was nothing lodged after 1978.
3 68 Q. Yes. Did you get accounts Mr. Morris of the funds,
4 of the money?
5 A. No.
6 69 Q. Did you?
7 A. No accounts.
8 70 Q. Did you know what was there?
9 A. Well, sometimes or another -- maybe with a meeting
10 with Guinness & Mahon we might, I might, have
11 discussed it, or if I was in about borrowing money,
12 or something like that, it may have been discussed
13 that it was at a certain figure.
14 71 Q. Yes?
15 A. But I got no statement.
16 72 Q. However, they would tell you what was there?
17 A. Well, they probably would have said to be roughly
18 what was there.
19 73 Q. Would they tell you what interest it was earning?
20 A. Yes, I think they would have told us what interest
21 it was earning, yes.
22 74 Q. Yes. It was on deposit?
23 A. It was on deposit, yes.
24 75 Q. Did you know that the funds could be used as
25 security for loans that you or your companies
26 received?
27 A. Yes.
28 76 Q. From time to time this phrase has been used as "cash
29 backed"?
17
1 A. That is right.
2 77 Q. Cash backed loan?
3 A. Yes.
4 78 Q. Your deposits were used for this purpose?
5 A. That is right.
6 79 Q. Yes. Did you know whether or not the money was, in
7 fact, lodged in Dublin in a coded account?
8 A. Never. I never knew that.
9 80 Q. You did not know that?
10 A. No, never, no, no.
11 81 Q. Of course we have not any facts yet in relation to
12 your evidence, there is evidence that the Channel
13 Islands company in their own name?
14 A. Yes.
15 82 Q. Lodged monies in Guinness & Mahon in Dublin?
16 A. Yes.
17 83 Q. In coded accounts?
18 A. Yes.
19 84 Q. And the persons who were entitled to the monies on
20 deposit in the Channel Islands could draw on it?
21 A. Yes.
22 85 Q. That did not apply in your case?
23 A. No, never, no.
24 86 Q. However, you were able to use it for back to back
25 loans?
27 87 Q. Did that situation then just carry on from 1976?
28 Did it change at all?
29 A. It applied up until probably the late 1980s when I
18
1 think there was some change in the personnel in
2 Guinness & Mahon.
3 88 Q. Yes. Had...(INTERJECTION)?
4 MR. JACKSON: Can I interrupt?
5 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Sorry?
8 MR. JACKSON: One factor which you
9 haven't asked him about
10 but which is relevant I believe.
12 MR. JACKSON: Is that towards the end of
13 the time it was also used
14 back to back for bonds which Guinness & Mahon
15 provided to the company.
16 89 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: This is for your work?
17 A. Contracts, yes.
18 MR. JACKSON: That is right.
19 90 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: For contracts?
20 A. Contracts, yes.
21 91 Q. Yes.
22 MR. JACKSON: It is slightly different
23 to the back to back loans
24 which the brothers got.
25 92 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. However, it was a
26 security in which
27 Guinness & Mahon was able to grant you bonds?
29 93 Q. And as security. They sought security and got it
19
1 from these deposits?
2 A. That is right.
3 94 Q. Yes. I was asking you about Mr. Traynor.
4 Presumably you met Mr. Traynor?
5 A. I never met Mr. Traynor.
6 95 Q. You never met him?
7 A. No.
8 96 Q. Your connections was originally with Mr. Leonard and
9 then Mr. Keane?
11 97 Q. However, you met Mr. Collery though?
12 A. Yes, later much, much later.
13 98 Q. Yes?
14 A. Much later.
15 99 Q. However, you never meet Mr. Traynor?
16 A. Never met Mr. Traynor.
17 100 Q. Yes. One of the documents, which you have forwarded
18 to us with your statement, is a handwritten note?
19 A. Yes.
20 101 Q. Of details of apparently withdrawals?
21 A. Yes, that is right.
22 102 Q. And apparently lodgements?
23 A. Yes.
24 103 Q. Is that in Mr. Collery's handwriting?
25 A. That's Mr. Collery's handwriting, yes.
26 104 Q. I see. Have you got a copy of it there
27 (Same Handed) (Exhibit 1)?
28 A. Yes.
29 105 Q. Mr. Morris, my copy is very hard to make out?
20
1 A. Yes.
2 106 Q. However, when does this start, 1977?
3 A. It is 1977. It would have been about a year after
4 the deposit. I suppose these people -- he is
5 showing it probably maybe a year later or something
6 like that.
7 107 Q. Yes. Could you just tell me how this document came
8 into existence?
9 A. Around 1981 or thereabouts, 1980/81, we were going
10 to try and reconcile things with Mr. Collery and as
11 far as I remember we met him over Christmas or just
12 after Christmas. We were going to go through
13 everything to try and sort out who had got what and
14 what the situation was.
15 108 Q. Yes.
18 MR. JACKSON: I think you said 1981?
19 A. Sorry, 1991, sorry.
20 MR. JACKSON: I think you mean 1991.
21 A. 1991, sorry. 1991, sorry.
22 109 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes?
23 A. Around 1991, yes, and I think as far as I can
24 remember he had this and gave us a copy of it.
25 110 Q. Yes?
26 A. And we were going to try and go back over things and
27 see who had taken what money out and what things
28 were like at the time.
29 111 Q. Yes?
21
1 A. And may be also to discuss the interests rates at
2 the time as well.
3 112 Q. Yes. When you say "who had taken what out"?
4 A. Yes.
5 113 Q. Was this your brothers?
6 A. That is right. Myself and my brothers, yes.
7 114 Q. Yes?
8 A. Yes.
9 115 Q. This account prepared by Mr. Collery, was this in
10 relation to one account held in an Institution
11 somewhere?
13 116 Q. Out of which you and your brothers drew money?
15 117 Q. Yes. The document that I have is not headed in any
16 way. Was the original headed in any way?
17 A. No, never was headed. No, never was headed, no.
18 118 Q. Do you know what Institution the money was held in?
19 A. Not at that time, no, no. I would have just assumed
20 it was still in a Guinness & Mahon company.
21 119 Q. In a company?
22 A. In Guinness & Mahon, yes.
23 120 Q. Yes. In relation to the fact that your brothers
24 withdrew sums from this joint account, could you
25 just give me the names of your brothers involved in
26 this?
27 A. Well, at that stage there was five of us. I am
28 Stephen. This is in the order of ages: Stephen,
29 Joseph, Thomas, Jerome and Martin. That was the
22
1 five.
2 121 Q. Yes. If your brothers drew money out of this?
3 A. Yes.
4 122 Q. They each must have put it in?
5 A. In the beginning, yes.
6 123 Q. In the beginning?
7 A. Yes.
8 124 Q. Did you all then, at the beginning, put in an equal
9 amount or was it an unequal amount?
10 A. It probably wouldn't have been fully equal. It
11 would have been -- some were maybe a little bit more
12 than others but that was going to be sorted out at
13 some stage or another as well.
14 125 Q. Yes. The five brothers then?
16 126 Q. Had this joint account?
18 127 Q. You had, each of you, had contributed approximately
19 in equal amounts?
21 128 Q. Into your joint account?
23 129 Q. Did you then regard yourselves then as each owning
24 one fifth of it, approximately?
25 A. Yes, until it was finally sorted out it. It
26 wouldn't have been too far off been equal. There
27 might have been...(INTERJECTION).
28 130 Q. Yes?
29 A. One was a little bit more than another.
23
1 131 Q. Yes. We can work on that?
2 A. Yes.
3 132 Q. For the moment?
4 A. Yes, roughly one fifth, yes.
5 133 Q. You each would have been entitled to a fifth of the
6 interest if it made interest?
7 A. That is right.
8 134 Q. And a fifth of the capital if you withdrew it all?
9 A. That is right, that is right.
10 135 Q. When you were talking to Mr. Collery in 1971.
11 MS. MACKEY: 1991.
12 A. In 1991.
13 136 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: 1991?
14 A. Yes.
15 137 Q. Did he make any reference then to the "Ansbacher"
16 situation, to the money being in the Cayman Islands
17 or anything like that?
18 A. No, no.
19 138 Q. I would like you to look at a letter. It is page 29
20 (Same Handed) (Exhibit 2)?
21 A. Yes. Thank you.
22 139 Q. This is a letter, it is headed your firm, and I
23 think it may well be your letter?
24 A. It is my signature, yes.
25 140 Q. Yes. It is to The Irish Intercontinental Bank?
26 A. Yes.
27 141 Q. It is:
28 "Dear Sirs, I herby request drawdown of

IR£509,075.34..."?
29
24
1 A. Yes.
2 142 Q.
"...under S.M. Morris Limited's loan
3 facility with IIB..."?
5 A. Yes.
6 143 Q.
"...I also request IIB to use this
7 amount to purchase GBP 4 58,167.81..."?
9 A. Yes.
10 144 Q.
"...On our behalf and pay that amount
11 to the account of "Ansbacher" Limited,
Grand Cayman with IIB, account no..."
12
13 then giving the account number?
14 A. Yes.
145 Q.
15 "...to refund monies used to finance
the purchase of asphalt plant from
16 ACP Group of Companies"?
17
18 A. Yes.
19 146 Q. Is it not clear Mr. Morris that you knew all about
20 "Ansbacher" then?
21 A. Well, to be honest with you that is the first time I
22 have seen this, and this would have been done -- I
23 was -- I had made an arrangement to buy a plant
24 from England.
25 147 Q. Yes?
26 A. And it was going to be funded by IIB Bank as a
27 company loan at the time.
28 148 Q. What I am referring you to is that you are asking
29 The Irish Intercontinental Bank,
25
1 "...pay that amount to the account of
"Ansbacher" Limited,"
2
3 and giving the account money?
4 A. Yeah, somebody would have given us that to write in.
5 Somebody would have given us that at the time. If I
6 could explain a bit more?
7 149 Q. Yes?
8 A. We had purchased the plant in England and we weren't
9 able to pay for it and I rang Padraig Collery to
10 tell him what our difficulty was, and he said that
11 they possibly could, subject to us getting the loan
12 from IIB Bank, that they could do this and this was
13 -- he must have given this to our office to have it
14 signed at the time.
15 150 Q. Yes?
16 A. But I certainly never recall seeing the name
17 "Ansbacher". If I had it wouldn't have meant
18 anything to me any way.
19 151 Q. No. I am only drawing your attention to the fact
20 that this letter signed by you in 1991?
21 A. Yes .
22 152 Q. Specifically refers to "Ansbacher"?
23 A. Okay.
24 153 Q. And to the account money?
25 A. Okay, Okay. I accept that now, yes, but I
26 certainly...(INTERJECTION).
27 154 Q. Then...(INTERJECTION)?
28 A. It would have meant nothing to me at the time.
29 155 Q. It would have meant nothing to you?
26
1 A. No.
2 156 Q. However, it must have escaped your memory, that?
3 A. I think so, yes.
4 157 Q. Because this is clear indication that you knew that
5 "Ansbacher" Limited had an account in IIB, that you
6 knew the number of the account, and that you were
7 requesting that money be paid into it?
8 A. Okay.
9 158 Q. Yes?
10 A. I would say that letter was dictated by someone
11 from...(INTERJECTION).
12 159 Q. Yes?
13 A. I would think may be Padraig Collery would have
14 dictated that letter to the office and I would have
15 been asked to sign it. It definitely is my
16 signature but it wouldn't have meant anything to me
17 at the time.
18 160 Q. Yes. You were involved in Irish Intercontinental
19 Bank?
21 161 Q. You were obtaining loans from them?
23 162 Q. You were getting the assistance then, were you not,
24 of Mr. Collery in relation to these loans?
25 A. That is right, that is right.
26 163 Q. Yes. Mr. Collery was then to your knowledge
27 associated with Guinness & Mahon?
29 164 Q. That is correct?
27
1 A. Yes.
2 165 Q. Did you know that Guinness & Mahon then had dealings
3 with Irish Intercontinental Bank?
4 A. I didn't. I didn't really know.
5 166 Q. Yes?
6 A. I didn't know what -- I didn't know. I think
7 we were introduced to Intercontinental Bank,
8 The Irish Intercontinental Bank, probably through
9 Padraig Collery, or told by him to see Irish
10 Intercontinental Bank.
11 167 Q. Yes?
12 A. I can't remember.
13 168 Q. Yes. Mr. Morris, you have described to us how the
14 funds that were lodged in the Channel Islands were
15 to be regarded as you and your brother's funds?
17 169 Q. When the situation continued on with Mr. Collery,
18 and into the 1990s, was the situation the same, you
19 regarded what funds that were there as belonging to
20 your brothers and yourself?
22 170 Q. You know now that a trust was established in 1989?
23 A. Yes.
24 171 Q. And whatever happened in relation to the trust the
25 arrangement still continued?
27 172 Q. That your brothers and yourself?
29 173 Q. Drew as you required in equal, or from nearly equal,
28
1 amounts?
2 A. That is right.
3 174 Q. Looking at the situation now, the situation which
4 you have learnt Mr. Morris, does it appear as if the
5 funds of the trust that was established in 1989 came
6 from your funds in Jersey Island?
8 175 Q. Is that your understanding?
10 176 Q. Is that what you have been told?
11 A. Yes.
12 177 Q. I take it that you have looked at the documents?
13 The documents show that a trust was established?
14 A. Yes.
15 178 Q. Mr. Furze was named as the Settlor but he was only a
16 nominal person?
17 A. Yes.
18 179 Q. Somebody then instructed the Jersey Institution or
19 it may have been Dublin, we do not know but
20 whereever your funds then were, somebody instructed
21 that they be moved into the Investment company or to
22 the trustees, the "Ansbacher" trustees?
23 A. Yes.
24 180 Q. Did you do that?
25 A. No.
26 181 Q. Do you know who did it?
27 A. Whoever was looking after the funds at the time,
28 whoever...(INTERJECTION).
29 182 Q. Presumably...(INTERJECTION)?
29
1 A. Sorry?
2 183 Q. Presumably you have made enquiries and you are
3 satisfied that it was done, was it not?
4 A. Well, much later. I found out when I went to try
5 and get some funds much later I found out a bit more
6 about the trust and...(INTERJECTION).
8 A. I had to go to the Cayman to try and get things
9 sorted out to get money back to pay the Revenue.
10 185 Q. Yes?
11 A. And then I found out more about what -- we got some
12 more documents then to do with it.
13 186 Q. Did you not raise the matter with Mr. Collery?
14 A. I did, yes.
15 187 Q. Tell me what he told you?
16 A. He told me to contact a person. He gave me a
17 person's name in the Cayman to phone, a person's
18 name in the Cayman.
19 188 Q. Yes?
20 A. And get whatever I could from him.
21 189 Q. However, did he not tell you what had happened?
22 A. No, no.
23 190 Q. However, surely you must have said, "How did my
24 money get over into this Bank in the Cayman
25 Islands"?
26 A. Well, it wasn't -- if it was -- we just took it to
27 be everything was just Okay and whereever it was it
28 was under their control and there was no problem
29 with it.
1 191 Q. Yes?
2 A. I mean if I wanted to get in touch with Mr. Collery
3 there was no problem in getting in touch with him.
4 192 Q. You were not concerned?
5 A. I wasn't concerned.
6 193 Q. Where the money was?
7 A. Not in the least.
8 194 Q. You left it to him?
9 A. Yes, that is right.
10 195 Q. You trusted him?
12 196 Q. And that it would be in a safe Institution?
13 A. Yes.
14 197 Q. Yes. All right. It appears, from what you have
15 been saying to me Mr. Morris, that in respect of
16 your share?
17 A. Yes.
18 198 Q. Of the funds that were originally in Jersey and then
19 later in Cayman?
20 A. Yes.
21 199 Q. That your share of these funds produced, obviously
22 produced, interest, income, and that you accept that
23 you are taxable on it?
24 A. Yes.
25 200 Q. I think I must ask you this: From what you have
26 said to me you are only liable, on what you said,
27 for a portion of the income, for the tax on the
28 income?
29 A. Myself?
31
1 201 Q. Yourself?
2 A. Yes.
3 202 Q. It must appear that your brothers are liable?
4 A. That is right.
5 203 Q. Are they taking steps to settle it?
6 A. Yes. Well, we all have done the same.
7 204 Q. You have all done the same?
8 A. We have all done — it is a joint...(INTERJECTION).
9 205 Q. Yes. Sorry?
10 MR. JACKSON: Its just this: The person
11 dealing with the tax on
12 behalf of this fund is dealing on behalf of all the
13 brothers, including Martin deceased.
15 MR. JACKSON: On behalf of the
16 executrix.
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. JACKSON: Or the administrator.
19 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Who was that Mr. Jackson?
20 Is it an accountant
21 dealing with it?
22 MR. JACKSON: Noel Murphy.
23 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Mr. Noel Murphy.
24 A. Yes.
26 MR. JACKSON: He is a
27 tax...(INTERJECTION).
28 206 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: No. It is just that our
29 task is to report to The
32
1 Court on these matters?
2 A. Yes.
3 207 Q. It does appear, from what you have said, that it not
4 only was Mr. Murphy, Mr. Stephen Murphy, was
5 taxable...(INTERJECTION).
6 MR. JACKSON: Morris.
7 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Sorry, Mr. Stephen Murphy
8 was taxable but
9 that...(INTERJECTION)
10 MR. JACKSON: The other brothers are
11 too.
12 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: The other brothers are
13 too.
14 MR. JACKSON: Yes, and they do accept
15 that.
16 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: They accept that.
17 MR. JACKSON: It is one whole unit.
19 MR. JACKSON: As far as Mr. Murphy.
21 MR. JACKSON: Who is making the claim
22 for the assessment.
23 208 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. Perhaps, we will
24 have a break now for a cup
25 of coffee Mr. Morris?
26 A. Please, yes.
27 209 Q. For ten minutes or so?
28 A. Please.
29 210 Q. I do not know if we will have very much more to ask
33
1 you Mr. Morris?
2 A. Okay.
3 211 Q. However, we will have a cup of coffee too?
4 A. Okay.
5 212 Q. We will come back in ten minutes or so.
6 MR. JACKSON: Can I make
7 one...(INTERJECTION)?
9 MR JACKSON: This letter came in at one
10 stage. Now, it is the
11 only copy I have but it does, in fact, say in 1998,
12 when Mr. Morris must have made enquiries, that they
13 know nothing about the account.
14 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: About?
15 MR. JACKSON: About the funds. I may
16 have seen that but I don't
17 recall having seen that letter.
18 MS. MACKEY: May we make a copy of
19 this?
20 A. Yes, yes.
21 MR. JACKSON: Of course, yes.
22 A. Yes .
23 MR. JACKSON: Mr. Morris, found it at
24 home last night, which is
25 an interesting letter (Exhibit 3).
26 MS. MACKEY: We will ask Ms. Cummins to
27 make a copy of it before
28 you go.
29 A. Yes .
1 MR. JACKSON: Yes. I find it extremely
2 interesting that they can
3 make such a statement.
4 A. Thank you.
5 SHORT ADJOURNMENT
6 MR. JACKSON: Mr. Costello?
7 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes?
8 MR. JACKSON: May I make two comments?
10 MR. JACKSON: About things that
11 happened before?
13 MR. JACKSON: One is this particular
14 letter (INDICATING)
15 (Exhibit 2).
17 MR. JACKSON: Here (INDICATING).
19 MR. JACKSON: I am speculating but it is
20 not on S.M. Morris Limited
21 letterhead.
23 MR. JACKSON: Which would seem to
24 indicate and
25 this...(INTERJECTION).
26 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I am sorry, I cannot get
27 submissions now.
28 MR. JACKSON: Okay.
29 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: I am just taking evidence
35
1 now.
2 MR. JACKSON: Yes, okay.
4 MR. JACKSON: However, I mean I would
5 say the evidence is that this is not on S.M. Morris
6 Limited letterhead.
7 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. We have got a copy of
8 this letter.
9 MR. JACKSON: Yes.
10 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: And where the letterhead
11 is I do not -- the
12 original, I do not know.
13 MR. JACKSON: However, it seems to be a
14 copy of the original.
16 MR. JACKSON: Not a carbon.
17 MS. MACKEY: We understand, yes.
18 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: If there is any comments
19 you want to make, please
20 make them later.
21 MR. JACKSON: Okay.
22 213 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: However, at the moment we
23 will just move on. This
24 letter that you gave us signed by the company
25 secretary Sandra Kells (Exhibit 3)?
26 A. Yes.
27 214 Q. On the 24th April?
28 A. Yes.
29 215 Q. She refers to your letter and letters received from
36
1 your brothers there?
2 A. Yes.
3 216 Q. Then she says,
4 "I am enclosing herewith the following

documentation which contains copy
5 clients files identified by the date
for the relevant persons."
6
7 Are those your files?
8 A. Sorry, is it this letter here?
9 217 Q.
"I am enclosing herewith following
10 documentation"?
11
12 A. Yes.
13 218 Q. Did she send you on documents?
14 A. Well, whatever, it is in all of that to do with our
15 banks loans and...(INTERJECTION).
16 219 Q. Those documents?
17 A. You have.
18 220 Q. That you have?
19 A. Yes.
20 221 Q. We got all of that?
21 A. Yes.
22 222 Q. I see?
23 A. You have got all of them, yes.
24 223 Q. Very well?
25 A. Yes.
26 224 Q. Very well. Mr. Morris, that is all the questions I
27 want to ask you now. However, Ms. Mackey would like
28 to ask you a few questions?
29 A. Okay.
37
2 END OF EXAMINATION OF MR. STEPHEN MORRIS BY
3 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO
4 MR. STEPHEN MORRIS WAS EXAMINED, AS FOLLOWS, BY
5 MS. MACKEY
7 225 Q. MS. MACKEY: I have very few questions
8 Mr. Morris?
9 A. Okay.
10 226 Q. We are nearly finished really?
11 A. Okay.
12 227 Q. It is just a couple of things that I would like to
13 clarify for my own satisfaction?
14 A. Okay.
15 228 Q. I am just not terribly clear on it?
16 A. Yes.
17 229 Q. One of the things I wanted to just clarify a bit if
18 you can?
19 A. Okay.
20 230 Q. And I know this is a long time ago and so on?
21 A. Okay.
22 231 Q. Is this question of Sierra Investments?
23 A. Yes.
24 232 Q. I would like to you show you a document. It is page
25 60 Ms. Cummins (Same Handed) (Exhibit 4)?
26 A. Thank you.
27 233 Q. This, as you see, is a letter written by
28 Sierra Investments?
29 A. Yes.
38
1 234 Q. To the Bank Of Nova Scotia?
2 A. Yes.
3 235 Q. It is dated 30th July 1976?
4 A. Yes.
5 236 Q. It refers to,
6 "Certificates of deposits, numbers

086583 to 086588"?
7
8 A. Yes.
9 237 Q. That is five Certificates,
10 "...inclusive which we enclose

herewith, and give formal 7 days'
11 notice of our intention to withdraw
these amounts"?
12
13 A. Yes.
14 238 Q.
"...On Tuesday, 10th August, please
15 transfer thre total amount together
with accrued interest to Guinness Mahon
16 & Co., Ltd.
17
18 London?
19 A. Yes.
20 239 Q.
"... for credit to our account..."
21
22 that is Sierra's account,
23 "...with Guinness + Mahon Ltd., 17,

College Green, Dublin t."
24
25 A. Yes.
26 240 Q. Is that the occasion of the transfer of your money
27 to Guinness & Mahon?
28 A. I would think so.
29 241 Q. Yes?
39
1 A. I would think so.
2 242 Q. Does it not appear from this that your money in The
3 Bank Of Nova Scotia was held at that time by this
4 company Sierra Investments?
5 A. No.
6 243 Q. May be I could just pass you another document, which
7 may be makes it a bit clearer. It is the next page
8 Mary, page 61. This is a letter from The Bank Of
9 Nova Scotia to you (Same Handed) (Exhibit 5)?
10 A. Yes.
11 244 Q. Referring to that earlier one?
12 A. Yes.
13 245 Q. It is the 4th August 1976?
14 A. Yes.
15 246 Q. It says:
16 "Re: Sierra Investments Limited. I am

enclosing a photostat copy of
17 correspondence received today from the
above Company"?
18
19 A. Yes.
20 247 Q. Clearly the previous letter?
21 A. Okay.
22 248 Q.
"...wherein we have received a seven
23 days notice of their intention to call
their deposits with us"?
24
25 A. Yes.
26 249 Q. Then:
27 "In view of the long association you

have maintained with our Office..."
28
29 would you explain why you were taking their money
40
1 out of the account basically?
2 A. Yes .
3 250 Q. However, it refers to Sierra's deposits?
4 A. Yeah. Well, I would have thought Sierra was --have
5 been -- whatever correspondence had been with
6 Guinness & Mahon and Bank Of Nova Scotia previous to
7 that. Sierra was never anything to do with The
8 Bank Of Nova Scotia. Whatever correspondence that
9 had gone on in the weeks prior to that.
10 251 Q. Yes?
11 A. With Guinness & Mahon and The Bank Of Nova Scotia,
12 that is definitely where Sierra started. There was
13 no connection whatsoever previously.
14 252 Q. Can you explain then what is meant by these?
15 A. I can't.
16 253 Q. No?
17 A. I can't. I just can't off hand. Maybe Fred and I
18 will just have a quick look at this. Will you just
19 see.
20 MR. JACKSON: I mean I can not
21 understand this.
22 254 Q. Have you seen these letters?
23 MR. JACKSON: I have seen both letters.
24 MS. MACKEY: Sorry, I should address my
25 remarks to Mr. Morris
26 really?
27 MR. JACKSON: Yes
28 A. Yes .
29 255 Q. MS. MACKEY: Has your solicitor seen

1 these letters?
2 A. He has, yes.
3 256 Q. All right?
4 A. We have gone over them, yes, yes.
5 257 Q. Prior to today?
6 A. Yes, yes.
7 258 Q. You can furnish no information? You have no
8 explanation for that?
9 A. No, but I can tell you that Sierra Investments was
10 sort of Guinness & Mahon. It never was anything to
11 do with...(INTERJECTION).
12 259 Q. Yes?
13 A. With...(INTERJECTION).
14 260 Q. Can I just ask you: Was you joint account with your
15 brothers?
16 A. Yes.
17 261 Q. In the name of you and your brothers?
18 A. Yes.
19 262 Q. Or some other name?
20 A. No, it was in the name of -- in our own names.
21 263 Q. Yes. In your own names?
22 A. Yes.
23 2 64 Q. Do you have documents showing, you know, the name in
24 your joint accounts with Guinness & Mahon after this
25 date?
26 A. No.
27 265 Q. You do not?
28 A. Nothing with Guinness & Mahon, no.
29 266 Q. I see.
42
1 MR. JACKSON: Your question then related
2 to just Guinness & Mahon
3 or related to Nova Scotia before that?
4 267 Q. MS. MACKEY: My question relates to
5 Sierra Investment because
6 what I am wondering is whether Mr. Morris and his
7 brother's monies were held by a company Sierra
8 Investments both prior to the transfer with Guinness
9 & Mahon and subsequently?
10 A. Definitely not prior to Guinness & Mahon, no.
11 268 Q. Right. From the move to Guinness & Mahon onwards?
12 A. Yes.
13 269 Q. Were your monies then held in the name of
14 Sierra Investments?
15 A. That is what I would have thought. That is what I
16 would have thought, yes.
17 270 Q. You thought that?
18 A. Yes.
19 271 Q. The transfer according to this letter, the first one
20 that I showed you?
21 A. Yes.
22 272 Q. The letter dated 30th July?
23 A. Yes.
24 273 Q. The money is transferred to "our account", that
25 is Sierra's account, with Guinness & Mahon in
26 College Green, Dublin?
27 A. Yes.
28 274 Q. Can you tell us, you may not know but if you do, can
29 you tell us what happened the money from then on?
43
1 A. Well, as far as I was concerned it was in Jersey or
2 the Channel Islands.
3 275 Q. In Jersey, yes?
4 A. In Jersey or whatever it is, yes.
5 276 Q. During all that time?
6 A. Yes.
7 277 Q. Yes?
8 A. That is as far as I was concerned.
9 278 Q. Yes?
10 A. I see here it mentions with the account with Dublin
11 but as far as we were concerned it never
12 was...(INTERJECTION).
13 279 Q. It was in Jersey?
14 A. It was in Jersey, yes.
15 280 Q. Yes. I think you said you did not get statements
16 during that time?
18 281 Q. You did not get any written statements from Jersey
19 at all in Dublin?
20 A. None whatsoever.
21 282 Q. But, from time to time, Mr. Leonard or Mr. Keane
22 would give you an oral...(INTERJECTION)?
23 A. Yes, if I was in talking to him about maybe some
24 borrowings or something, we were trying to do
25 business with him other than that, and I might have
26 asked him and he might have advised me but I
27 certainly had no statements, no.
28 283 Q. Did you ever get anything in the name of Sierra
29 Investments?
44
1 A. No.
2 284 Q. When you were answering Mr. Justice Costello's
3 questions earlier, you mentioned that everything
4 continued on, as it were, up to the end of the 1980s
5 and the early 1990s when there was a change in
6 personnel?
7 A. Yes .
8 285 Q. Would you just tell me what happened at that time,
9 as far you were concerned?
10 A. Well, I would have gone into Guinness & Mahon maybe
11 to try and arrange some company loans.
12 286 Q. Yes?
13 A. And talk to them and then I met Martin
14 Lanigan-0'Keefe, he was the new manager.
15 287 Q. This would be now when?
16 A. I would have thought probably, maybe, well about two
17 years before, about 1988 or thereabouts.
18 288 Q. Right?
19 A. Or thereabouts.
20 289 Q. Yes?
21 A. And I was told them there was a change, they were
22 not doing any business like they were before, and
23 with if I wanted to talk to somebody I had
24 previously we were to talk to Padraig Collery.
25 290 Q. Who told you this?
26 A. I think that was Martin Lanigan-0'Keefe who was the
27 manager then of Guinness & Mahon in Dame Street.
28 291 Q. Yes, that is right, and when he said to you that
29 they weren't doing business like they were before,

1 what did you understand that to mean?
2 A. He meant that they wouldn't be doing any
3 back-to-back loans or whatever, or whatever he would
4 have meant by it.
5 292 Q. No longer doing back-to-back loans?
6 A. I think he just wasn't doing business and that was
7 it. I think that was it. I think he was there to
8 do whatever he was to do and he didn't seemed to be
9 interested in doing business.
10 293 Q. But when you say "in doing business"?
11 A. Sorry, we did do other business with him in around
12 1990 when we were very badly strapped for cash.
13 294 Q. Yes?
14 A. And we did a borrowing on the building we occupied
15 in Stillogan Industrial Park. He arranged some money
16 for us at that stage.
17 295 Q. Just to get clear what it was he was conveying to
18 you at that time, or what you understood he was
19 conveying to you, he said to you, you were to get in
20 touch with Mr. Collery?
21 A. Yes .
22 296 Q. In regard to that?
23 A. To any of our, to our monies.
24 297 Q. To your overseas monies?
25 A. Yes .
26 298 Q. So when he said they weren't doing any more
27 business, he meant, did he, with overseas monies?
28 A. I would have thought so, yes.
29 299 Q. Is that what you understood?

1 A. I would have thought so, yes.
2 300 Q. But that you were to get in touch with Mr. Collery?
3 A. Regarding our own funds.
4 301 Q. And was Mr. Collery still a member of staff there at
5 that time?
6 A. I am not sure of that, I just don't know when he
7 left. I couldn't put a date on it when he left, but
8 it was probably somewhere in around those years or
9 maybe prior to 1990 any way.
10 302 Q. Did you immediately contact Mr. Collery at that
11 time?
12 A. I think we did, yes.
13 303 Q. Where did you contact him?
14 A. Well, we had a home money I notice there, On one of
15 the things we had a phone money and we might have
16 rung him there, or subsequently we might have got a
17 money where he was working, at some stage we got a
18 money where he was working.
19 304 Q. Did you ever talk to him in Guinness and Mahon?
20 A. Yes, when he was Guinness and Mahon some time, I
21 can't remember what years, but he wasn't one of my
22 contacts there in the earlier parts.
23 305 Q. So you would have talked to him in Guinness and
24 Mahon in what context?
25 A. Maybe at some stage we might have got some money
26 back to him as well, I just can't remember, or maybe
27 somebody else did, I just can't remember.
28 306 Q. Right but, in any event, Mr. Lanigan-0'Keefe
29 referred you to him on this occasion?

1 A. That is right.
2 307 Q. Did you understand that to mean that, this was the
3 end of the 1980s, that Guinness and Mahon as such
4 was longer dealing with your business?
5 A. Not really. As far as we were concerned, our money
6 was still with Guinness and Mahon in Jersey. That
7 is as far as I was concerned.
8 308 Q. But you understood that Guinness and Mahon in Dublin
9 was no longer dealing with it; is that it?
10 A. Well, yes, that is it more or less, but I did not
11 think it was isolated from the main Guinness and
12 Mahon. I just took it to be that maybe Dublin was
13 not dealing but it was being dealt with from Jersey.
14 309 Q. Right, but did it not worry you that the managing
15 director of the bank you were dealing with would say
16 to you, "We are no longer dealing with your money"
17 and refer you to somebody who may not have been
18 working there at the time?
19 A. No it didn't at the time. We just took it that
20 everyting was alright and which probably proved in
21 the late 90s when we had to get money urgently, that
22 we were able to do it and it was backed by loans
23 from somewhere so we were happy enough.
24 310 Q. MR. JACKSON: I think you said the late
25 90s.
26 A. Sorry, the early 90s.
27 311 Q. MS. MACKEY: It was the early 90s?
28 A. Yes .
29 312 Q. On the first occasion that you contacted Mr. Collery

1 after this, did he give you any explanation as to
2 why he was now taking over the operation of your
3 accounts rather than the people you had been dealing
4 with prior to this?
5 A. No.
6 313 Q. Did you ask him?
7 A. I don't think so, I don't remember asking him, but I
8 do not think we were ever concerned, I just don't
9 think we were ever concerned that there was going to
10 be problem anywhere along the line.
11 314 Q. Even though at the stage you were visiting somebody,
12 either contacting them in their own home, or
13 contacting them in a place that had no connection
14 with Guinness and Mahon?
16 315 Q. That did not worry you?
17 A. No.
18 316 Q. You didn't find that strange?
19 A. No, I didn't no. Obviously when we were looking for
20 funds, or were looking to get something back, it was
21 readily available, that made us probably all the
22 more assured that, you know, there was no problem
23 along the line.
24 317 Q. When you needed to get money from Mr. Collery, how
25 was that transacted?
26 A. Just with a phone call to Padraig Collery.
27 318 Q. And then what would happen then?
28 A. Well, I know at one stage when I wanted to get a
29 draft for this plant we were talking about, that was
49
1 collected from Merrion Square.
2 319 Q. From Merrion Square?
3 A. From Merrion Square, yes.
4 320 Q. Where in Merrion Square?
5 A. From the CRH offices.
6 321 Q. Fitzwilliam Square?
7 A. Sorry, Fitzwilliam Square. Sorry, I am mistaken
8 there, yes.
9 322 Q. Did you personally collect that?
10 A. Yes.
11 323 Q. And who do you meet there?
12 A. Some lady, I would have thought some lady maybe in
13 her 40s or 50s, I just can't remember.
14 324 Q. Would it have been Ms. Joan Williams?
15 A. It could possibly have been. I haven't, I just
16 walked in and I was asked who I was and I just
17 collected the draft.
18 325 Q. That was when roughly?
19 A. In 1991, I think, from memory now. I just have to
20 look at that, around 1991.
21 326 Q. And Mr. Collery arranged that for you?
22 A. Yes.
23 327 Q. Not Mr. Traynor?
24 A. Not Mr. Traynor.
25 328 Q. You said I think that you never met Mr. Traynor?
27 329 Q. But in one of the documents you provided for -- it
28 was the document, Ms. Cummins, page 62 -- the
29 document that they gave you when you went out to
50
1 Cayman, the one-page document (Exhibit 6)?
2 A. Yes?
3 330 Q. That you told us about showing distributions, as
4 they called them, from your funds from Optima
5 Securities?
6 A. Yes.
7 331 Q. The 4th item down there is cash paid to J.D.
8 Traynor?
9 A. Yes.
10 332 Q. And there is the TM which I think you said relates
11 to your brother?
12 A. That was my brother who must have received that from
13 Mr. Traynor's office.
14 333 Q. Right. Is it possible that your brothers may have
15 met Mr. Traynor?
16 A. No, absolutely not, no.
17 334 Q. Had you heard of him in connection with all of this
18 during this time?
19 A. I heard of his name at some stage.
20 335 Q. During this time while you were dealing Mr. Collery?
21 A. Not necessarily. I might have heard his name
22 previously through Guinness and Mahon but I never,
23 it did not mean much to me at this time.
24 336 Q. Right. Now, I do not think I have any more
25 questions, Mr. Morris, thank you.
26
27 END OF EXAMINATION OF MR. STEPHEN MORRIS BY MS.
28 MACKEY
29
51
1 MR. STEPHEN MORRIS WAS EXAMINED, AS FOLLOWS, BY MR.
2 JUSTICE COSTELLO:
4 337 Q. MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Just, one or two questions
5 Mr. Morris?
6 A. Yes.
7 338 Q. Your first contact with Guinness and Mahon was with
8 Mr. Rue Leonard, I think?
9 A. Yes.
10 339 Q. And it was his suggestion then that he could give
11 you better interest rates, perhaps at any rate he
12 suggested you should come to Guinness & Mahon?
13 A. Yes.
14 340 Q. And he told you then about this Jersey company,
15 Sierra Investment; is that right?
16 A. Yes, at some stage.
17 341 Q. Now, the letter that Ms. Mackey has shown you shows
18 that Sierra Investments had an account in Guinness
19 and Mahon in Dublin (Exhibit 4)?
20 A. Yes.
21 342 Q. Is it possible, you may not have known, that your
22 money was on deposit in Dublin in Sierra
23 Investments' name?
24 A. No, that is not possible.
25 343 Q. You do not think so?
26 A. No never.
27 344 Q. You think it was deposited in a bank in?
28 A. In Jersey, yes.
29 345 Q. What made you that think that?
52
1 A. Well, that is what I was always told, that is what I
2 was told from Guinness and Mahon, that the money was
3 in Jersey.
4 346 Q. Was in Jersey, I see.
5 A. And the name Sierra Investments was mentioned.
6 347 Q. I see. Very well then, thank you, Mr. Morris?
7 A. Okay.
8 348 Q. What we require from you is to drop in to sign the
9 transcript of this interview. It will be typed up
10 and then if you could sign it.
11 A. Okay.
12
13 END OF EXAMINATION OF MR. STEPHEN MORRIS BY MR.
14 JUSTICE COSTELLO
15
16 THE EXAMINATION OF MR. STEPHEN MORRIS WAS THEN
17 CONCLUDED
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
53
1 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: If I could just say
2 something. You see, it
3 might be possible, and it would avoid asking Mr.
4 Morris' brothers to come in, if we got a letter from
5 them acknowledging that the evidence that Mr. Morris
6 has given today is correct so that we would not
7 require them to come in here to give on oath of what
8 he has already told us.
9 MR. JACKSON: Well certainly that would
10 be appreciated because I
11 do know all the brothers, and have done, and they
12 could certainly, and the administrator or the
13 personal rep of Martin in that regard to.
14 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: That would seem to me to
15 be a practical way of
16 dealing with the situation. The brothers needn't
17 come in if we get a letter from you written on their
18 behalf dealing with the matters.
19 MR. JACKSON: I will show them what has
20 been said, obviously, a
21 copy of the transcript after Stephen Morris has
22 signed it.
23
24 There is one other point which I think ought to be
25 corrected and I think one of your questions said,
26 "This tax relates to the tax in relation to these
27 deposits from 1976". In fact the tax calculation is
28 in relation to their tax from the time the brothers
29 returned to Ireland from working abroad.
54
1 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Before 1976?
2 MR. JACKSON: Before 1976. Some of them
3 returned in 1969, some of
4 them were returned in 1974 but it is to cover all
5 those foreign monies that were earned, not just from
6 1976.
7 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. Thank you.
8 A. Yes
9 MR. JUSTICE COSTELLO: Yes. Thank you.
10 A. Thank you.
11
12
13 THE INTERVIEW THEN CONCLUDED.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
55
f O WjLhoc^
#i M M
STATEMENT OF MR STEPHEN MORRIS TO THE INSPECTORS
APPOINTED BY ORDER OF THE HIGH COURT ENQUIRING INTO
THE AFFAIRS OF ANSBACHER (CAYMAN) LIMITED
The body corporate, S M Morris Limited and its subsidiaries with which I and my family are
connected, have at no time had any dealings with Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited (hereinafter
called "the Bank"). Our Company, my brothers and I did bank at times with Messrs Guinness
& Mahon Limited and do bank with Irish Intercontinental Bank. ("IIB")
I on behalf of myself and my brothers Tomas, Joseph, Martin and Jerome went to Guinness &
Mahon Bankers in Dublin in or around 1976 when iny family moved certain monies they held
in the Bank ofNova Scotia (in Jersey but through their Glasgow branch) to Guinness & Mahon's
associated company called Siena Investments Limited in Jersey. These arrangements were made
through Mr Ian Kelly of Guinness & Mahon Limited Dublin.
As far as we were concerned all our dealing were with Guinness & Mahon and we were informed
that the monies were in Jersey. At all times our dealings were through Guinness & Mahon in
Dublin until Mr Lanagan-OKeefe was appointed general manager when we were told that these
off shore funds ware to be dealt with through certain personnel most particularly Mr Collery.
Prior to Mr Collery, we dealt with Rue Leonard, Martin Keane and Pat Dwyer in Guinness &
Mahon Bankers.
It was not until the matter of the Ansbacher affair becoming public our company Bankers who
were then Intercontinental 3ank Limited ("IIB"), informed me that our permanent loan for some
lands which were purchased in 1991 approximately, was to be a back to back arrangement made
with Ansbacher Bank in the Cayman Islands. Prior to that conversation, which took place in
sometime in late 1997,1 had no knowledge that our money was in Ansbacher or the Cayman
Islands. This conversation occurred probably sometime in 1997. EEB were informing me of
this fact because they were about to inform the Moriarty Tribunal or the other inspectors
concerned with the Ansbacher affair. At the beginning of 1998 we were asked for
r** ......
> . d o c u m e n t a t i o n concerning these funds by various inspectors/tribunal and so we communicated
with Guinness & Mahon Bankers Dublin to seek copies of all the documentation and statements
relating to same. We received the contents of theringbinders lodged with this statement
Eventually we were furnished with a copy of a Deed of Settlement dated the 27th day of
November 1989 between John A Furse and Ansbacher Limited. We were also furnished with
various accounts and the copy Deed of Indemnity of 6 August 1996 given by Optima Securities
Limited to Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited. At no time prior to this do I recall having seen these
/—s documents or indeed the accounts of Optima Trust and Optima Securities Limited which were
sent to me under cover of the Henry Ansbacher letter of 19 January 1999.
My understanding of the arrangements I had with Messrs Guinness Mahon of Dublin, was that
they were able to hold our offshore money legally (initially in Jersey) so that it did not incur
liability to tax until it was returned to Ireland; the initial funds were all earned over seas. It was
not until these matters were brought into the public domain and following the McCracken
Tribunal, that we understood there was a tax liability in relation to these monies even though they
were overseas. "When we understood this and had the bulk of the documentation contained with
this statement we voluntarily disclosed the position to the Revenue and I went to Ansbacher
(Cayman) Limited and completed the necessary documents to withdraw money to pay the
Revenue.
I enclose copy of all documentation which I canfind which has been furnished to us and which
may touch on the matter which you are investigating. The IIB loan offerofIR£150,000 toushas
v . ') not yet been completed as there are problems with the land security.
I do not recall executing any deed of trust or other documentation in relation to these monies,
save what I signed in Cayman in relation to the withdrawal of funds for payment to the Revenue.
All my communications with Guinness & Mahon were verbal following the initial copy
correspondence enclosed.
I attachfive copy sheets of fund movements of monies relating to this offshore money which
^ hand written ledger sheets I receivedfrom Mr Collery and which go to December 1990. I also
received one page of a document dated 5 October while in the Cayman Islands showing monies
paid out of the funds and I understand that the initials "TM" stand for Tom Moms. I do not
know what TOK stands for. The cheque for D P Collery (IR£50,000) was cashed by him and he
gave me the money for a business transaction which the Morris family were involved in.
Kentfort Securities Limited was paid I believed in respect of a temporary loan for the purchase
of a specific piece of plant of approximately £450,000 which I now think it must have made to
iir
us for about 3 months until our company hadfinalised its permanent loanfrom IDB for this plant.
When the permanent loan came through the temporary loan was repaid with what I believe was
interest or fees i.e. this IR£10,000. I do not know how this temporary loan was arranged by Mr
Collery and I was not informed that it wasfrom Kenfort Securities Limited. It is speculation on
my behalf. My concern was that at the time we had to pay the supplier of the plant and Mr
Collery arranged a cheque which I collected and gave to the supplier of the plant.
I enclose a eopy of the IIB loan offer of IR£150,000 which has not yet completed. I would also
point out that in 1992 my brother Martin died suddenly and his wife stood in his shoes in respect
of the lands purchased. The hypothecated funds mentioned in the letter from Hemy Ansbacher
dated 19 January 1999 relate to this loan.
The two payments of IRES,000 each by way ofbank draft to Bank of Ireland dated 5 March 1991
are still confusing me and I am endeavouring tofind out what they were used for.
Signed:
"STEPHEN M MORRIS
Dated this 1st day of March 2000.

ANSBACHHR (CAYMAN) IIMITSD
HENRY ANSBACHER PO BOX JS7

GRAND CArMAN
CAYMAN ISLANDS
BRITISH WEST INDIES
Telephone +1 34S 949 $6SS /
Fuiimile +1 3*5 949 7946
Tele* CP 4305 ANSBAC C
19 January, 1999
Our Reft 6894/6904
Mr. Stephen Monis
"Analanda"
Femdale Road
Rathmichael
Shankill
Co. Dublin
Ireland.
Dear Mr. Morris,
Re: Optima Trust
Optima Secnritiea Limited
I refer to your recent telephone conversation with Mr. Bothwell and enclose the following
documents :-
1) A copy of the Trust Deed dated 27* November, 1989.

2) Financial Statementsfor Optima Securities Limited covering the periodfrom inception
to 30'" September, 1998.
3) Trust Accounts for Optima Trust for four years ending 30* September, 1998.
Accounts were not prepared prior to 1995.
4) Copies of documentation to guarantee the sum of £150,000.00 in respect of a loan
facility made by Irish Intercontinental Bank Limited to the Morris family.
5) Bank Statements reflecting the following balances as at 31* December, 1998.
(a) US$3,777.25
(b) £3,148.02
(c) £158,945.59 - Hypothecated
(d) £348,401.88 - Fixed Deposit
Yours sincerely,
H. Kervin Glidden
Senior Trust Officer
HKOAmw
ends.
A wi»b«r ol lh« Fin* Nmtoncl Bowit
THIS INDEMNITY is dated the 6th day of August, 1996 and is given by Optima Securities
Limited (hereinafter called the "Indemnifier") in favour of ANSBACHER (CAYMAN)
LIMITED of P.O. Box 337, George Town, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands (hereinafter
called "the Bank").
WHEREAS the Bank at the request of the Indemnifier has issued or agreed to issue a
Guarantee in the form attached (hereinafter called "the Guarantee") in favour of Irish
Intercontinental Bank Limited (hereinafter called "the Lender") in respect of certain liabilities
of Messrs. Stephen Morris, Joseph Morris, Thomas Morris, Jerome Morris and Martin Morris
^hereinafter called "the Borrower") to the Lender.
NOW THIS TS HEREBY AGREED as follows:-
1. In return for the Bank at the request of the Indemnifier entering into the
Guarantee the Indemnifier hereby unconditionally and irrevocably agrees:-
(a) to pay to the Bank onfirst written demand all monies whatsoever which
mayfrom time to time be claimed or demandedfrom the Bank which
the Bank shall pay or become liable to pay under or by reason of or in
f
connection with the Guarantee; and
(b) to indemnify and to hold the Bank harmless against all actions, claims,
demands, liabilities, losses, costs, damages and expenses which the
Bank may incur or sustain in connection with or arising in anyway
whatsoever out of the Guarantee.
2. The Bank shall at all times be entitled to pay any amounts demanded by the
Lender under the Guarantee without any reference to or any authorityfrom the
Indemnifier and without being under any duty to enquire whether any such
demand is properly made or whether any amount demanded is due and
notwithstanding that the Indemnifier may dispute the validity of any such
demand and the Indemnity herein contained shall extend to such amounts and
shall not be affected or impaired by the fact that the Bank was or might have
been justified in refusing in whole or in pan to pay such amounts or any of
them.
Pais Indemnity is to be a continuing security and shall be in addition to and not

in any way prejudiced or affected by any guarantee, indemnity, mortgage,
charge, lien, or other security now or any time hereafter in force in respect of
payments made, or actions, claims, demands, liabilities, losses, costs, damages,
and expenses incurred or sustained in connection with or arising out of the
Guarantee or by any time or indulgence or relief given by the Bank. The Bank
may at anytimeand without reference to the Indemnifier give time for payment
or grant any other indulgence and give up, deal with, vary, exchange or abstain
from perfecting or enforcing any other indemnities, guarantees, securities or
other obligations whatsoever held by it at any time and discharge any party
thereto, and realise the same or any of them and compound with, accept
compositionsfrom and make any other arrangement in respect of such security
without affecting the Indemnifier's liability hereunder.
Until all liabilities hereunder have been paid or discharged in full, the
Indemnifier waives allrightsof subrogation, contribution and indemnity against
the Borrower and agrees not to claim any set-off or counterclaim against the
Borrower in the event of the bankruptcy or the insolvency of the Borrower.
All payments to be made by the Indemnifier under the Indemnity shall be in full
without any deduction, set-off or counterclaim whatsoever. The Indemnifier
shall pay to the Bank interest (both before and after judgment) on demand on
all sums paid by the Bank under or in connection with the Guaranteefrom the
date such sums are paid by the Bank until the Indemnifier reimburses the Bank
at the rate per annum determined by the Bank to be three (3) percent above the
Bank's cost of funding such unpaid sum from whatever source the Bank-
selects, such interest to be compounded at such intervals as the Bank may
consider appropriate.
The Indemnifier agrees that any payment made by the Bank under the
Guarantee in a currency other than United States Dollars will be repaid by the
Indemnifier to the Bank on demand in such other currency or if so required by
the Bank in United States Dollars and that in the event of either the Bank
requiring the payment in United Scares Dollars or the Indemnifier requesting
the Bank to accept repayment in United States Dollars and such request being
accepted by the Bank then the rate of exchange at which such other currency
shall be converted into United 5 fat as Dollars shall be the rate of exchange (as
determined by the Bank) which prevailed on the day of payment of such other
currency by the Bank. In addition the Indemnifier agrees that if any judgment
or order is given or made for the payment of any amount due under this
Indemnity and is expressed in a currency other than that in which such amount
is payable by the Indemnifier under this Indemnity the Indemnifier shall
indemnify the Bank against any loss incurred by the Bank as a result of any
variation occurring in rates of exchange between the date on which such
amount is converted into such other currency for the purpose of such judgment
or order and the date of actual payment pursuant to such judgment or order.
Without prejudice to any security held by Bank in respect of the liabilities of

the Indemnifier under this Indemnity, the Bank shall have arightof set-off over
all monies standing to the credit of any account of the Indemnifier with the
Bank in respect of any liabilities of the Indemnifier which become due and
payable hereunder.
(a) This Indemnity shall continue to bind the Indemnifier notwithstanding

any amalgamation, merger or reconstruction that may be effected by the
Bank with any other company or companies and in the event of any
such amalgamation, merger reconstruction or of any assignment by the
Bank of its rights hereunder all references in this Indemnity to "the
Bank" shall, unless the context otherwise requires,, be construed as
including a reference to its successors and assigns.
(b) The Indemnifier shall not assign or transfer all or any part of its rights
(if any) or obligations under this Indemnity. References in this
Indemnity to the Indemnifier shall be construed as including a reference
to is successors.
(c) This Indemnity shall remain in full force and effect until the Bank
confirms in writing to the Indemnifier that the Bank has been released
from all liability under the Guarantee.
The Indemniiier's obligations hereunder shall -not in any way be discharged or
impaired whatsoever by any amendment, extension or variation of the
Guarantee.
The Bank is at liberty but act bound to resort to any other means of payment at
any time and in any order it thinks fit without thereby diminishing the
Indemnifier's liability hereunder and may enforce itsrightsunder this Indemnity
either for the payment of the ultimate balance after resorting to other means of
payment or for the Balance due at any time notwithstanding that other means of
payment have not been resorted to and in the latter case without entitling the
Indemnifier to any benefit from such other means of payment so long as any
moneys remain due or owing or payable (whether actually or contingently)
from or by the Indemnifier to the Bank.
No delay or omission on the Bank's part in exercising any right, power,

privilege or remedy (hereinafter together called "Rights") in respect of this
Indemnity shall impair any such Rights, or be construed as a waiver of any
thereof No single or partial exercise of any such Rights shall preclude any
further exercise thereof or the exercise of any other Rights. The rights,
powers, privileges or remedies herein provided are cumulative and not
exclusive of anyrights,powers, privileges or remedies provided by law.
If this Indemnity is, or purports to be, signed by or on behalf of more that one
person as the Indemnifier (or more than' one party is expressed to be a party
hereto as the Indemnifier) it shall bind each such person as joint and several
obligors. The obligations of any one such person shall not be revoked or
impaired by the death, incapacity, bankruptcy, winding-up or liquidation of any
other such person or by the non-execution of this Indemnity by any other such
person or by any other such person not being liable for any reason to the Bank
hereunder.
Any notice or demand in connection with this Indemnity by the Bank to the
Indemnifier shall be deemed to have been duly given if delivered personally to
the Indemnifier or to his last known address or sent by post to such address and
if sent by post shall be deemed to have been delivered on the first business day
after fony-eight hours have elapsed following the same being duly addressed,
stamped and posted. For the purpose of this clause, "business day" means any
day except Saturdays and Sundays on which banks in the Cayman Islands are
openfor business.
14. This Indemnity is to be governed by and construed in accordance with the law
of the Cayman Islands and the Indemnifier hereby irrevocably submits to the
non-exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the Cayman Islands in connection
herewith, save the Bank is not thereby to be precluded from bringing or
commencing proceedings before any other court or in any other jurisdiction.
' Dated this day of 1996th day of August, 1996
\ s witness the hands of the parties the day and yearfirst above written.
Signed by ) •
) _
In the presence of
Signature
Address
Occupation
THE COMMON SEAL of Optima Securities Limited

was hereuntpâgcîn the presence of FOR AND ON 5EHALT CF
usiifii mmi&ia 'iJU^
Director Director/SeeeeisHy
Pursuant to a Resolution of the Board of Directors dated 6th day of August, 1996.
AUTHORISATION TO APPLY DEPOSITOR'S FUNDS
IN LIQUIDATION OF DS3T OF THIRD PARTT.
To: ANSBACHZ5. (CAYMAN) LIMITED

("the Baric")
In consideration of the 3ank granting a guarantee and indemnity ("the Guarantee") in favour
of Irish Intercontinental Bank in relation to certain facilities made available to the person
whose name and address appears in tha First Schedule ("the Debtor"), the undersigned ("the
Depositor3*):
a) agrees that norjvithstanding any rule of law or agreement to the contrary, unless the
• Bank otherwise agrees, the Bank is not obliged to repay any credit balance to the
Depositor unless and until all Liabilities owing or payable by any of the Debtor and the
Depositor to the Bank has been pad in-full;
b) agrees to indemnify the Bank against all demands, claims, liabilities, losses, costs and
expenses whatsoever it may incur if the Debtor fails to settle the Debtor's Liabilities or
any part of them;
c) authorises the Bank to appropriatefrom all money which the Bank-holds now or in the
future to the Depositor's credit on any current, deposit or other account or accounts
(an "Account") whatsoever towards the payment to the Bank of all the Liabilities.
In this Agreement, "the Debtor's Liabilities" means all liabilities, present or future, actual or
contingent, of the Debtor, whether as principal, agent, trustee or guarantor to the Bank
whether on account of money advanced, bills of exchange, promissory notes, guarantees,
indemnities, interest, commission, fees, banking charges or otherwise howsoever and whether
incurred solely separately or jointly and all legal fees commissions or other expenses (on a full
indemnity basis) howsoever incurred by the Bank in that connection.
Notwithstanding the above provisions the total amount recoverable under this Agreement will
not exceed the amount (if any) stated in the Second Schedule, but if no amount is stated, or if
the Second Schedule is blank, the total amount recoverable under this Agreement is unlimited.
The Depositor irrevocably agrees and confirms as follows:
1. The Bank may return unpaid or disregard any cheque, bill or other order or instruction
for payment which if debited to any Account would reduce the total balance below the
balance of the Liabilities from time to time, and the Bank maytitleany Account as a
collateral account containing references to the Depositor's obligations under this
Agreement.
2. The Bank may at anytime without prior notice to the Depositor appropriate and apply
all or any of the money so held to the Depositor's credit in or towards satisfaction of
all or any of the Liabilities as the Bank thinksfit, whether or not any Account which is
in credit is opened before or after the date of this Agreement, and whether or not the
Bank has taken steps to enforce the Liabilities against the Debtor or the Depositor, as
the case may be, which the Bank is not obliged to do.
ADF- Tntrd Party
3. This Agreement wii! apply notwithstanding that ail or part of any credit balance of the
Depositor is repayibie on daman d or crJy at a future date or on the giving of a length
of notice and the Bank may at any time treat the credit balance as if it is immediately
payable and available for payment and set-off. If the Bank appropriates any credit
balance before its maturity date the amount applied under this Agreement will be net of
the amount of the early withdrawal charge or fee (if any) which the Bank charges in
the ordinary course of its deposit business.
4. This Agreement will continue and shall remain in force and will not "be determined
affected or prejudiced by the death or disability or liquidation of an individual, the
receivership or insolvency of the Depositor, or by the Bank holding, taking or releasing
any other or further security or by the Bank renewing varying or determining any
accommodation given to the Debtor or granting time or indulgence to or compounding
with the Debtor or any other person. Notwithstanding any rule of law or agreement to
the contrary, no credit balance of the Depositor in any Account is or will be repayable
by the Bank to the Depositor unless and until all the Liabilities have been satisfied in
full.
5. A certificate by an officer of the Bank as to the amount of the Liabilitiesfor the time -
being will be conclusive evidence for all purposes against the Depositor. If any sums
appropriated under this Agreement are not in the- currency of any sums owed to the
Bank by the Debtor or the Depositor, as the case may be, the Bank may convert those
sums into the currency of the debt at a rate conclusively determined by the Bank acting
in the ordinary course of its foreign exchange business.
6. The Depositor shall not create nor agree to create nor allow to arise or subsist any
security interest whatsoever in any money which the Bank holds to the Depositor's
credit other than with the Bank's express prior written consent
7. The Bank may at any time in its discretion assign or endorse to the Depositor the
benefit of the Debtor's Liabilities in pro tanto satisfaction of the amount held to the
Depositor's credit in any Account.
8. None of the following will prejudice the Bank's rights or affect the Depositor's liability
under this Agreement:
i) any failure or irregularity defect , or informality in any agreement made or action
taken by or on behalf of the Debtor in respect of the Debtor's Liabilities;
ii) the terms of any other agreement which binds the Bank to the extent they conflict
or appear to conflict in any way with the terms of this Agreement;
iii) any legal limitation disability, incapacity or lack of any borrowing powers of or
by the Debtor or lack of authority of any director, manager, official or other
person appearing to be acting for the Debtor in any matter in respect of the
Debtor's Liabilities;
And this Agreement being an indemnity, the Bank may recover the money from and enforce
the Liabilities against the Depositor as a sole or principal debtor.
9. Where the Depositor is a corporation its execution of this Agreement is a
representation and warranty to the Bank that the Depositor:
ADF- Third Pary
i) is validly incorporated under the laws of its country of incorporation and has
under those laws and under its own constitution the power to enter this
Agreement;
ii) all corporate action and all approvalsfrom any government tax monetary or
other authorities to authorise and enable the Depositor to make this Agreement
have been obtained and are in full force and effect;
iii) the making of this Agreement will not accelerate any liability of the Depositor
nor infringe any other agreement to which the Depositor is a party; and
iv) the Depositor is not the subject of any actual pending or threatened legal
proceedings which has or may have a material affect on itsfinancial condition
in this Agreement.
10. Where there is more than one person comprised in the terra "the Debtor" references to
the Debtor will where the context admits take effect as references to such persons or
any of them and where the Debtor is afirm will include the person or persons from
time to time constituting thefirm whether or not under the same style orfirm name and
generally where the context so admits:
a) singular words include the plural and vice versa;
b) words of one gender include any other gender,
c) "person" includes corporation;
d) a duty imposed is to be performed, and a power or discretion conferred is
exercisable, in each case,from time to time;
e) a duty not to do something includes a duty not to permit or suffer others to do it.
11. Where this Agreement is signed by more than one person (otherwise than as agent for
a named principal) the agreements on the part of the Depositor contained in h will be
binding on them jointly and severally and references to the Depositor will take effect as
references to the Depositor or any of them; and where two or more persons are named
as signatories to this Agreement, it will bind any person signing it notwithstanding that •
it is not signed by any one or more of the named signatories.
12. The construction, validity and performance of this Agreement shall be governed by the
laws of the Cayman Islands.
IN WITNESS whereof the Depositor has executed this Agreement as a deed the day and year
written below.
•Ba&HJ.mw u] lijiyi
ADF- Third Party
Name of Debtor Messrs. Stephen Morris, Joseph Morris, Thomas Morris,

Jerome Morris and Martin Morris
Address:
SECOND SCHEDULE
Amount: GBP150,000
Dated the day of

FOR AND ON BEHALF OP
CRQMS LIMITED -
EXECUTED under the Common Seal of
OPTIMA t-'iM/TSffl Jii/LaLnS^
FOR AND ON BEHALF OF

in the presence of>
CAWSANQ LIMITED
"b i*ecr»x
Witness
OR
EXECUTED as a deed by
for and on behalf of

Optima Securities Limited
in the presence of
Witness
T
ANSBACHER (CAYMAN) LIMITED
HENRY ANSBACHER PO SOX 137

GRAND CAYMAN
CAYMAN' ISLANDS
BRITISH WEST INDIES
Telepkaat I 109 949 ISSS
Facsimile I 109 949 794«
Telex CP 430S ANSBAC C
6 August, 1996
p r i v a t e & CQTOPWIKA^
The Directors
P.O. Box 887
Grand Cayman
Dear Sirs,
Re; Credit Facility
We, Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited ("the Bank"), are pleased to offer you a revised
revolving credit facility (She Facility") subject to the terms and conditions set forth
below.
1. Obligor
2. Nature of Facility
A Bank guarantee
3. Facility Amount
- The maximum amount outstanding under the Facility will be limited to
GBP150.000.00 at any time.
4. Purpose
To secure a loan facility made available by Irish Intercontinental Bank Limited
to Messrs Stephen Morris, Joseph Morris, Thomas Morris, Jerome Morris and
Martin Morris.
» \
5. Fee
V* of 1% p.a. to be taken as a differential between the Obligor's deposit with
the Bank and the Bank's deposit with Irish Intercontinental Bank Limited.
6. Security
As security for ail monies outstanding under the Facility we shall rely, and
continue to rely upon:
(a) the indemnity dated 6th August, 19.96, issued by the Obligor's wherein
the Obligor agrees to indemnify and to hold the Bank harmless against all
actions, claims, demands, liabilities, losses, costs, damages and expenses
which the Bank may incur or sustain in connection with or arising in any
way whatsoever out of or in connection with the Guarantee; and
(b) a cash deposit of an amount equal to the Facility which shall be placed
with the Bank and secured by the Authorisation To Apply Depositor's
Funds in Liquidation of Debt of Third Party, dated 6th August, 1996.
(together the "Security")
The Security will enjoy full rightsof consolidation with any other security
held by us in respect of any other facility granted by us to the Obligor
from time to time.
7. Conditions
A certified copy of the board resolution of the Obligor and the Guarantor
accepting the Facility on the terms and conditions of the Facility Letter and
authorising a specified person or persons to sign and return the duplicate of this
letter by way of acceptance.
8. Review/Termination
' This Facility will be reviewed by us periodically, may be modified, reduced, or

terminated at any time by us at our sole discretion and, in any case, will expire,
without prejudice to your liabilities to us, on 29/8/97 provided that it has not
been renewed by us in writing before the said date. Notwithstanding any other
provision of this Facility Letter, it is expressly agreed that all liabilities will be
and shall remain repayable on demand and we expressly reserve our right to
call for full cash cover in respect of contingent and prospective liabilities.
£
9. Payments
Ail payments due to be mads by the Obligor to us hereunder shall be made to us in full
without any deduction or withholding (whether in respect of set-of£ counterclaim,
duties, tax, charges or otherwise).
10 Default Interest
If the Obligorrailsto pay any amount payable by it Under this Facility Letter on the due
date or if appropriate on demand, it shall (without prejudice to any other rights we may
have) pay interest on such overdue amountfrom the due date up to the actual date of
payment, as well after as before judgement and compounded monthly, at 3% per
annum over ourfloating prime rate. The Obligor shall indemnify us on demand against
any losses, casts, liabilities, or expenses including legalfees sustained by us as a
consequence o£ any default or delay in payment by the Obligor of any sums, due under
this Facility Letter.
Kindly sign and return to us the duplicate of this letter to signify your understanding and
acceptance of its contents. The offer of the Facility shall lapse if we do not receive the signed
duplicate of this letter on or before 6th September, 1996.
Yours faithfully,
For and on behalf of
Ansbacher (Cayman)'Limitec
J. B. Bothweil
Managing Director e Banking Director
Agreed to and Accepted by: Agreed to and Accepted by:
FOR AND ON SSHAU5 OP FOR AND ON BEHALF OF

c m LIMITED . M UMlTtD
Authorised Signature Authorised Signature

Optima Securities Limited Optima Securities Limited
Encl.
Appendix XV (93) Mr John Mulhern
John Mulhern.
a) Transcript of evidence of Mr John Mulhern dated 9 May 2001.
b) Statement of Mr John Mulhern dated 23 March 2001.

c) Share purchase agreement of 29 October 1993 - College Trustees Limited
& Clayton Love Distribution Limited.
d) Letter of 30 July 1992 - Ansbacher Limited to IIB.
e) IIB statement of 15 March 1993 re Cayman International Bank & Trust

Company Limited.
f) Annsbacher Limited statement dated October 1992 re Ansbacher Limited

Cayman a/c no 80024123.
g) Letter of 27 July 1993 - Hamilton Ross Co Limited to IIB.
h) IIB statement of 29 July 1993 re a/c no 02/01354/81.
i) Extract from a/c headed G & M Limited, Jersey Trust Trustees of 24

January 1974.
j) Internal Guinness and Mahon memo re resident loan accounts.
k) Letter of 7 December 1990 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and Mahon.
1) Extract from internal Guinness and Mahon memo headed 'suitably

secured - all references'.
m) Letter of 16 February 1994 - Hamilton Ross Co Limited to IIB.
n) Report &financial statement re Ice Cream Marketing Limited ending 31

July 1995.
o) Consolidated cash flow statement re Clayton Love Distribution Limited

ending 31 July 1994.
p) Letter of 2 July 2001 - Secretary to Inspectors to Reddy Charlton

McKnight Solicitors.
q) Letter of 13 August 2001 - Reddy Charlton McKnight Solicitors to
Inspectors.
Correspondence received from or on behalf of Mr John Mulhern.
a) Letter and enclosures of 27 November 2001 - Reddy Charlton McKnight

Solicitors to Inspectors.
PRIVATE EXAMINATION OF MR. JOHN MULHERN
UNDER OATH
ON WEDNESDAY, 9TH MAY 2001
Stenographer
PRESENT
The Inspectors: JUDGE S. O'LEARY
MS. N. MACKEY BL
Interviewee: MR. J. MULHERN
Represented by: MR. H. MOHAN SC
Instructed by: MR. D. O'DOWD
Reddy Charlton
& McKnight
12, Fitzwilliam Place
Dublin 2
1 THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. JOHN MULHERN COMMENCED AS
2 FOLLOWS ON WEDNESDAY, 9TH MAY 2001:
4 JUDGE O'LEARY: Mr. Mulhern, thank you
5 very much indeed for
6 coming. We know it is not easy with a busy
7 schedule like yours to fit it in but we appreciate
8 it greatly. I hope it won't be very long.
9 It is a matter of a number of questions. What we
10 are doing -- and this is important to emphasise --
11 is investigating a company. We are not
12 investigating you, we are investigating a company.
13 It is not your company, we are investigating
14 Ansbacher. That is what we are investigating.
15 As part of our job investigating Ansbacher,
16 obviously we have to ascertain the extent of the
17 business which they carried out in various places.
18 Because we are asked to do it by the High Court we
19 have to identity where possible clients of
20 Ansbacher. We are not going to make value
21 judgments on clients of Ansbacher, that is not our
22 job. That is someone else's job. But we have to
23 identity the clients of Ansbacher. The questions
24 that I will ask will obviously relate to the type of
25 activity which the company engaged insofar as you
26 might have any knowledge of it. And if you don't,
27 of course I understand that. It also will be
28 directed towards establishing whether or not you are
29 within the meaning of what the High Court order has
3
1 laid out for us, a client of Ansbacher.
3 Here today is Ms. Noreen Mackey, one of the
4 inspectors. I am another of the inspectors.
5 Sean O'Leary is my name. We are two of the four
6 inspectors appointed to hear and gather the evidence
7 and report to the High Court.
9 Insofar as two of the inspectors only are present
10 today, they will be the two inspectors that will be
11 dealing with any matter which might arise concerning
12 yourself. There might be no matter concerning
13 yourself, but if there was we would be the two that
14 would be dealing with it rather than the absent two
15 inspectors. From a practical viewpoint we have to
16 operate in that way.
17
18 This is a very informal procedure. There are
19 really only two formal portions of it I would say.
20 One is that we require you to take the oath and the
21 second is that ultimately in accordance with the
22 provisions of the Companies Act we require you to
23 sign the transcript at the end of the examination
24 as a true and accurate record, obviously subject to
25 any corrections or changes there may be in it.
26 Other than that it will be quite an informal
27 procedure. I would ask you now to take the oath.
28 Our solicitor, Ms. Cummins, will administer the
29 oath.
4
1 MR. JOHN MULHERN, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AS
2 FOLLOWS BY JUDGE O'LEARY:
4 1 Q. JUDGE O'LEARY: Thank you very much for
5 coming, Mr. Mulhern.
6 We have got your unsworn statement (Exhibit 1). It
7 is a good start for us to have an unsworn statement
8 from somebody because it gives us the basis on which
9 to operate. Have you read the unsworn statement
10 yourself?
11 A. I have.
12 2 Q. Are you satisfied with everything in the unsworn
13 statement or are there any changes you would like to
14 make?
15 A. The only changes are that the dates might not be
16 exactly correct.
17 3 Q. We are not terribly concerned about that aspect of
18 the thing?
19 A. Other than that I don't think there are any changes.
20 4 Q. What I find sometimes -- I am sure it doesn't apply
21 in your case -- is that people come in with a
22 statement that has been put together by a solicitor
23 or a barrister or somebody like that and they find
24 in the middle of it 'I don't really know what is in
25 the statement at all' and they find themselves in
26 confusion. So normally we start by asking people
27 are they happy with the statement. We note that
28 you have your solicitor and barrister here and they
29 are very welcome. This is not trial, this is a
5
1 mere examination of you for gathering information.
2 However, if at anytime during the course of the
3 examination you feel you wish to consult either of
4 your legal advisers or both of them, you can ask us
5 to stop and we will stop and you can withdraw to the
6 room or we will withdraw and you can have your
7 consultation and then we will commence. Similarly,
8 if either of those at anytime feel that they would
9 like to consult with you, all they have to do is say
10 to us "stop" and we will provide precisely the same
11 facility. I don't know how long the interview will
12 go on but if it goes on for any length of time at
13 all, we will take a break and there will be tea and
14 coffee available for you during the course of it.
15
16 Mr. Mulhern, you are involved in the business of
17 Clayton Love Distribution Ltd, is that right?
18 A. That's right.
19 5 Q. How long is that business in operation?
20 A. Since June 21st 1966.
21 6 Q. Was it established afresh at that stage?
22 A. Yes .
23 7 Q. The Clayton Love name was there, and the
24 significance attached to that?
25 A. The company at the time belonged to the
26 Clayton Love family.
27 8 Q. Were you involved in it?
28 A. I was the managing director.
29 9 Q. It is like a dream to me, but did Clayton Love

1 Junior's brother work in the company?
2 A. Not in Clayton Love Distribution Ltd.
3 10 Q. He never worked in that?
4 A. No.
5 11 Q. You have been the managing director since that time,
6 have you?
7 A. Since the day it was set up.
8 12 Q. Are you still the managing director of the company?
9 A. For my sins.
10 13 Q. I know about the shareholding; we might talk about
11 that later on. Ultimately you are the shareholder
12 in the company?
13 A. That's correct.
14 14 Q. I realise that various changes went on.
15 The shareholding of the company at that stage, was
16 it the Love family who had the shareholding at that
17 stage?
18 A. At the outset, yes.
19 15 Q. They had the shareholding and you acquired it
20 together with somebody else?
21 A. In 1972 with the Nestle company.
22 16 Q. What were they operating in Ireland as at the time,
23 not under the Nestle name I would say?
24 A. We were selling Findus frozen foods.
25 17 Q. They were Findus?
26 A. They were Findus.
27 18 Q. And you were distributing Findus foods?
28 A. Yes.
29 19 Q. You took 55% of the shareholding and Nestle
7
1 took 45%?
3 20 Q. Presumably then you carried on on that basis for
4 some time?
5 A. Yes.
6 21 Q. You were in the majority shareholding and I presume
7 their interest was the distribution of their branded
8 frozen food products?
10 22 Q. But as can happen in those situations, changes are
11 almost inevitable I think?
12 A. That's right.
13 23 Q. What actually happened?
14 A. I think control of the company became something that
15 they wished to have and it was something that I
16 didn't want to give up.
17 24 Q. They began to ...(INTERJECTION)?
18 A. Agitate and cause problems which were just
19 unacceptable and we spent too much time talking to
20 lawyers and not enough time looking after the
21 business.
22 25 Q. Where were you operating out of at that stage?
23 A. At that stage we were operating out of Cabra.
24 26 Q. A buy-out situation became a possibility?
25 A. It seemed to be the only solution.
26 27 Q. When did that actually come to fruition,
27 Mr. Mulhern?
28 A. I think 1982 or 1983, that period.
29 28 Q. In 1982/1983 you wanted to buy them out?
8
1 A. We had to find a solution and the only solution that
2 could be found was to fix on a figure and either
3 they could buy us out for that figure or we could
4 buy them out or find somebody to buy them out for
5 the agreed figure.
6 29 Q. Was it a very substantial sum of money at that
7 stage?
8 A. It seemed at the time that it was but when you look
9 back at it, it was a pittance.
10 30 Q. What was it in fact?
11 A. £300,000 for the 45%.
12 31 Q. It was still a substantial sum of money at that
13 stage?
14 A. If you didn't have it, it was.
15 32 Q. Exactly. I think I would have found myself in that
16 position at that time, I wouldn't have had it.
17 You instructed Mr. Desmond Traynor to act as your
18 advisor during that negotiation, is that correct?
19 A. He had been my advisor since... back in 1964 he was
20 on the panel, he was the director of Clayton Love
21 group and he was on the panel that interviewed me
22 for my original job with the company in 1964.
23 So I had known him from 1964 and he had made it
24 possible in the first instance to get Clayton Love
25 Distribution Ltd up and running. He had always
26 been there to assist.
27 33 Q. In the background?
28 A. Yes .
29 34 Q. Was he a director of the company?

1 A. Not of Clayton Love Distribution Ltd.
2 35 Q. Were you banking at that stage with Guinness &
3 Mahon?
4 A. We may have done some currency transactions with
5 them.
6 36 Q. But they were not your main bank?
7 A. No, they weren't.
8 37 Q. Your main bankers were?
9 A. The company's main bankers were either Ulster Bank
10 or in those years City Bank.
11 38 Q. Presumably in 1964 when you were interviewed by
12 Mr. Traynor, he was acting more or less as an
13 accountant?
14 A. He was a non-executive director of Clayton Love
15 Distribution Ltd.
16 39 Q. Of the Group?
17 A. Yes.
18 40 Q. Was he still with Haughey Boland at that stage?
19 A. He was.
20 41 Q. By the time we move on to the 1982 situation, he was
21 working now in Guinness & Mahon?
23 42 Q. And of course you would have kept contact with him?
25 43 Q. Right up to the time of this negotiation had
26 Mr. Traynor ever sought to interest you in offshore
27 activities?
28 A. No, I didn't have that sort of an involvement with
29 him.
10
1 44 Q. So he never said to you that you could establish a
2 trust or a deposit in the Channel Islands or the
3 North of Ireland or the Cayman Islands or any place
4 at all?
5 A. I owed money to him.
6 45 Q. You don't think you would have been a suitable
7 recruit for his scheme at that stage?
8 A. I didn't know anything about the scheme; when we
9 look back we know a lot more obviously. I didn't
10 know anything about the scheme, I was a debtor to
11 the bank.
12 46 Q. You needed £300,000?
13 A. Yes .
14 47 Q. Who came up with the solution to the problem?
15 A. Des Traynor did.
16 48 Q. Do you remember what he said to you, Mr. Mulhern?
17 A. The situation was that we had spent a day in the
18 solicitor's and we were getting nowhere. I was to
19 report to him in the evening and I reported to him
20 that we hadn't made any progress. He said 'If I
21 may join the meeting, we will progress it.'
22 So he came to the meeting and said 'My client
23 doesn't want any more legal bills, he doesn't want
24 any more of this stress. And the only solution is
25 we will name a figure. You can give us 55% of it
26 and you can have the company or we will give you
27 45% of it and we will have the company.' They
28 thought about it and said 'We will name the figure
29 and we will agree on the same basis' so they named
11
1 the figure. I didn't know where the 45% was going
2 to come from but "JDT" had committed himself to it
3 and that is what was done.
4 49 Q. No doubt you were looking on in a rather surprised
5 way at this turn of events?
6 A. It all happened in half an hour.
7 50 Q. When you withdrew from the meeting did you say
8 'Mr. Traynor, this is a bit of a surprise to me.'
9 A. The situation was that he decided that the
10 frustration was too much, and it was very
11 frustrating because I was dealing with things that I
12 didn't know a lot about, legal terms and contracts
13 and things. We were pushing paper backwards and
14 forwards between ourselves and Nestle and it was a
15 total waste of time. But they would frustrate you;
16 that is the way multinationals operate.
17 51 Q. When you came out what did Mr. Traynor say to you
18 about the arrangements?
19 A. He said 'We will look after the paperwork tomorrow'
20 and I think he said 'A company called College
21 Trustees Ltd will own the shares for the time being
22 until such time as you sell the business.'
23 52 Q. College Trustees Ltd bought the shares?
24 A. 45% .
25 53 Q. Did you know anything about College Trustees?
26 A. Never heard of them before.
27 54 Q. Did you say to Mr. Traynor who controls College
28 Trustees or who is in charge of it or who owns it?
29 A. If he said it was all right, as far as I was
12
1 concerned it was all right.
2 55 Q. Did you know at that stage that College Trustees was
3 a subsidiary company of Guinness & Mahon?
4 A. I assumed it was because I thought of College Green
5 being where Guinness & Mahon were and that it had
6 something to do with College Green and therefore it
7 was probably a subsidiary of theirs.
8 56 Q. Did you know where the money came from ultimately?
9 A. I hadn't a clue.
10 57 Q. You didn't know that?
11 A. No.
12 58 Q. College Trustees acquired it. Reading through this
13 one might form the impression -- I know it might be
14 looking backwards at how successful you were
15 afterwards -- that in fact it was your money in
16 College Trustees that was used. That you had money
17 in College Trustees and that was used to execute the
18 purchase?
19 A. No.
20 59 Q. Did you have money in College Trustees at that time?
21 A. No, I had never heard of College Trustees before
22 that night.
23 60 Q. The way Mr. Traynor operated is that if you gave him
24 money it would end up in an account all legitimate
25 and legal in the sense that we have never come
26 across a case where he didn't treat people
27 honourably but that they might not know the name of
28 the company that the money would go into?
29 A. Mr. O'Leary, I owed money, I didn't own money.
13
1 I owed money.
2 61 Q. We have come across a lot of people, Mr. Mulhern,
3 who owed quite a substantial amount of money but
4 simultaneously had money abroad which they
5 didn't...(INTERJECTION)?
6 A. That wasn't the case.
7 62 Q. Particularly where people were importing goods.
8 Were you importing goods?
9 A. Yes .
10 63 Q. You know the idea of what we will call to give it
11 its polite name some "differential invoicing" where
12 prices would be inflated into this country and
13 skimmed off elsewhere. I am sure you have heard
14 people doing that sort of thing?
15 A. I haven't but I can just assure you that you would
16 not be able to trade with Nestle in that fashion.
17 64 Q. Is that right?
18 A. That would not be possible.
19 65 Q. They wouldn't sell to a Channel Island company who
20 would sell on to you?
21 A. No.
22 66 Q. As far as you were concerned it was these
23 College Trustees. You said you understood the
24 company to be an investment vehicle?
25 A. That's correct, yes.
26 67 Q. What happened to the control of the company
27 thereafter on a day-to-day basis?
28 A. It just carried on as it had done in the previous
29 period.
1 68 Q. Did you retain your Nestle connection?
2 A. I had my 55% and we kept on selling Findus frozen
3 foods.
4 69 Q. You retained that agency, was that part of the deal?
5 A. Yes .
6 70 Q. You carried on and you sold Findus foods. Did Mr.
7 College Trustee ever knock at your door and say 'How
8 are you doing, Mr. Mulhern?'
9 A. I would get a call annually from JDT if I didn't
10 meet him somewhere and he would ask how is business.
11 I would say not too bad and he would say send us on
12 a set of accounts. You would send him on the
13 accounts and that is all you would hear.
14 71 Q. You would send them on to where?
15 A. To Guinness & Mahon.
16 72 Q. As far as you were concerned they would be sent down
17 to the appropriate people?
18 A. As long as the graph was going the right way it
19 didn't seem to concern him.
20 73 Q. He wasn't a very hands-on investor?
21 A. No.
22 74 Q. Did you get the impression that maybe it was his own
23 investment?
24 A. No.
25 75 Q. As you will appreciate people can be laid back about
26 their own investments but if you are investing money
27 for somebody else...(INTERJECTION)?
28 A. I don't believe it was. It never struck me but
29 when you ask the question, I don't believe it was.

1 76 Q. Have you ever down through the years ever
2 established who the beneficial owner was?
3 A. No, Sir.
4 77 Q. College Trustees is a trust company. It is
5 possible that they owned it themselves, that is
6 possible. But it is much more likely that they
7 were holding it for somebody because that is what
8 they are, they are a trust company. You never
9 found out who it was?
10 A. At the time it didn't concern me. As long as they
11 were quiet and let me run the business I was quite
12 happy.
13 78 Q. We will move along to 1992. At that time you were
14 approached by a larger food processing company with
15 a view to purchasing the shares in Clayton Love
16 Distribution Ltd. Do you remember that?
17 A. I do.
18 79 Q. Who approached you?
19 A. Waterford Foods.
20 80 Q. They wanted to buy you out?
21 A. Yes .
22 81 Q. You were not sympathetic to that, were you?
23 A. I suppose everything has its price and I certainly
24 did tend to go along with it at first but as the
25 negotiations progressed it was going to be
26 unacceptable.
27 82 Q. Their price wasn't right effectively?
28 A. The price was right, just the manner in which they
29 were treating the business was not going to be
16
1 right.
2 83 Q. Obviously if the price was good this College
3 Trustees, whoever they may have been, had some
4 interest in the outcome as well?
5 A. I had to tell Desmond that we had the offer.
6 84 Q. What was his general approach?
7 A. 'If it is suitable to you, he said, College Trustees
8 will accept it.'
9 85 Q. How did the question of rejecting the offer and at
10 the same time or shortly thereafter buying out the
11 45% arise. Whose idea was it, how did it arise?
12 A. The offer was rejected not because of the figures
13 concerned but rather with the fact that there was
14 what they call an "earn-out." I was going to be
15 left running the business for a minimum of
16 three years and the profitability for those three
17 years was going to affect the final figure.
18 86 Q. It was going to determine your price, I understand
19 that.
20 A. The agreement was that no finances would be taken
21 out of the company by Waterford for the period of
22 the "earn-out". But in the latter days of the
23 negotiations there was £1,500,000 in cash that was
24 in the company gone. When we looked at the cash
25 flow figures going forward there was £1,500,000
26 gone. I asked the people from Waterford 'Where is
27 it gone' and they said 'You don't need it so we are
28 going to take it out.' And I said 'No, we had an
29 agreement that that wouldn't happen.' So it just

1 struck me that the three years were going to be a
2 misery if I went through with this.
3 87 Q. So you decided against it?
4 A. Yes.
5 88 Q. What about this other suggestion then that you would
6 buy out College Trustees. How did that come about?
7 A. They had been involved for ten or eleven years and
8 had never had a dividend on the basis that the
9 business was going to be sold one day and that was
10 going to be their return. Having wetted his
11 appetite about the thought of selling at that time,
12 sale was in their mind and they wanted to do
13 something about it.
14 89 Q. Did the initiative come from them at that stage
15 rather than you?
16 A. I think so. When JDT realised there was a certain
17 amount of cash in the company and that it wouldn't
18 affect us adversely and it was then possible to buy
19 out your own company shares because of the change in
20 the Act a year or so before, he came up with this as
21 a solution. Then he said 'You won't have any
22 outsiders to worry about, you can do what you like
23 with the company.'
24 90 Q. So his suggestion was that you would buy your own
25 shares?
26 A. Yes.
27 91 Q. Which had become legal in accordance with the
28 1990 Companies Act?
29 A. Yes.
18
1 92 Q. And that is what happened?
2 A. That is what happened.
3 93 Q. Where did you get the money to do that?
4 A. There was the £1,500,000 that we were talking about
5 that was in the business and we borrowed whatever
6 other monies we needed from National Irish Bank.
7 94 Q. Which was how much?
8 A. I think we borrowed nearly £1,000,000.
9 95 Q. During all this time had you done any business with
10 Des Traynor's company in Dublin?
11 A. Which company?
12 96 Q. With Guinness & Mahon?
13 A. He was long gone from Guinness & Mahon at that
14 stage. I still owed Guinness & Mahon a lot of
15 money for many and various things right up to the
16 late 1990's.
17 97 Q. What about Des Traynor wearing his other hat of
18 being the Chairman of Ansbacher or Guinness Mahon
19 Cayman Trust as it was known as. It had all sorts
20 of different names. But they were real either
21 Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust or Ansbacher?
22 A. I didn't know him or see him as having anything to
23 do with Ansbacher, that never came into my world.
24 98 Q. To your knowledge. So far as you were concerned,
25 you knew nothing. Did you know anything about
26 Ansbacher at all?
27 A. I knew nothing of Ansbacher other than they were in
28 Leeson Street.
29 99 Q. They were a different Ansbacher.

1 A. I didn't know that.
2 100 Q. So you had no dealings with Ansbacher?
3 A. None.
4 101 Q. Or your company, had it ever any dealings with
5 Ansbacher?
6 A. Not to my knowledge.
7 102 Q. When you paid College Trustees off how much did you
8 pay them?
9 A. We paid them £711 per share which came to about
10 £3,199,000.
11 103 Q. On the original investment of £300,000; it wasn't a
12 bad return?
13 A. It was a very reasonable return.
14 MR. MOHAN: I have a copy of that
15 agreement for you (Exhibit
16 2) .
17 104 Q. JUDGE O'LEARY: Thank you, we will take
18 that from you. That is
19 very satisfactory, thank you very much. All that
20 makes perfect sense to me. I have no difficulty
21 with it at all, Mr. Mulhern. But unfortunately I
22 have a number of documents I must put to you that
23 seem to cast some doubt on it, and I am looking for
24 explanations obviously. I will show you Exhibit 3
25 -- page 29. Mr. Mulhern I have my folder here.
26 A lot of the documents are of no relevance at all
27 but some of them are of relevance. Where they are
28 of relevance I am going to show you the documents.
29 I will tell you where they came from and you can
20
1 tell me whether you know anything about it or not.
2 If at anytime you think you need time to consider an
3 explanation, I have no difficulty with that either.
4 MR. MOHAN: Subject to what you say,
5 Mr. Chairman, to show us
6 all the documents and give us five minutes?
7 JUDGE O'LEARY: No, I think I will do it
8 one by one if you don't
9 mind because I have a very limited capacity to deal
10 with large pieces of information myself.
11 MR. MOHAN: Obviously we haven't seen
12 them before.
13 JUDGE O'LEARY: There is nothing magical
14 or tricky about it, they
15 are very straightforward. Could I explain to you,
16 Mr. Mulhern, in case you didn't know.
17 When Mr. Traynor left Guinness & Mahon and started
18 operating in his private capacity in other addresses
19 including 42, Fitzwilliam Square which was the place
20 of the head office of CRH -- when he did that the
21 Ansbacher accounts which had been in Guinness &
22 Mahon Ireland were moved. The business was moved
23 to Irish Intercontinental Bank. He obviously had
24 some kind of falling out or disagreement with GMI,
25 nothing personal I think but he just moved the
26 business. He moved the Ansbacher business because
27 Ansbacher was no longer a subsidiary of Guinness &
28 Mahon at that stage. We have got from the
29 Ansbacher files through their executives in one way
21
1 or the other various documents. This document you
2 can see is headed "Ansbacher Ltd."
3 A. Yes.
4 105 Q. The context is Mr. Traynor writing to Ronan Redmond
5 of Irish Intercontinental Bank Ltd where the
6 Ansbacher account was. There was this pot of money
7 over in the Irish Intercontinental Bank which had
8 Ansbacher on top of it. It was owned by various
9 people, maybe dozens of people. Not hundreds but
10 certainly dozens of people. From time to time
11 Mr. Traynor would instruct Irish Intercontinental
12 Bank to accept a lodgement or make a payment.
13 Here in this document (Exhibit 3) dated 30th July
14 1992 he is instructing the transfer of Ir£750,000 to
15 Ulster Bank Ltd, Dorset Street, Dublin 1 to the
16 account of Clayton Love Distribution Ltd. And he
17 gives the account number. You can understand, Mr.
18 Mulhern, why I find it difficult to accept that you
19 had nothing to do with Ansbacher when I have this
20 document?
21 A. I can understand that, Sir, but you can possibly
22 also understand that you are showing me this through
23 one side of the window. I saw that from another
24 side of the window. I asked JDT to provide
25 £750,000 by close of business on 31st July because
26 we wanted to have sufficient funds to do a deal that
27 we were trying to do at the time. I wanted to have
28 enough cash in the pot so that I could secure it
29 immediately. And if I am correct, that money was
22
1 returned in either October or November of the same
2 year?
3 106 Q. I don't know.
4 A. And was never used.
5 107 Q. That may well be the case.
6 A. I asked JDT to provide the funds, I didn't ask him
7 where it came from. He provided the funds to the
8 company's bank.
9 108 Q. Let us go back in terms of time: When did you pay
10 the £3,000,000?
11 A. 1993.
12 109 Q. So this is before that date?
13 A. That's right.
14 110 Q. So what deal are we talking about?
15 A. I was trying to buy another distribution company to
16 add to our own business. The people we were trying
17 to do business with were very difficult or tricky.
18 But the one thing they were interested in was a very
19 quick deal, but the deal didn't come to pass.
20 But I didn't want to have to be looking for money at
21 short notice and not able to provide it so I asked
22 JDT to provide £750,000, which he did.
23 111 Q. But to provide it from where?
24 A. Normally he would send you somewhere or tell you to
25 go and see somebody and the thing was dealt with.
26 That is what he usually did.
27 112 Q. But doesn't that show that you -- I am not passing
28 any judgement on this, Mr. Mulhern -- you borrowed
29 £750,000 from Ansbacher?

1 A. No, I didn't, I borrowed £750,000 from Des Traynor.
2 113 Q. That may well be the case...(INTERJECTION)?
3 A. He provided it from Irish Intercontinental Bank;
4 that is who transferred it into our bank.
5 114 Q. I am not talking about your state of knowledge at
6 the time, I am not talking about that, but I am
7 saying that the money came from Ansbacher?
8 A. You are telling me that, as far as I was concerned
9 the money came from Irish Intercontinental Bank.
10 That is who transferred it into our bank.
11 115 Q. Did you sign an agreement with Irish
12 Intercontinental Bank?
13 A. No.
14 116 Q. So we can accept that Irish Intercontinental Bank
15 were the mere instrument. Whoever you owed the
16 money to, you didn't owe it to Irish
17 Intercontinental Bank?
18 A. No.
19 117 Q. In other words, if I was to say to you on
20 1st August 1992 'Mr. Mulhern, you got £750,000
21 yesterday, who do you owe that money to?'
22 A. JDT was the answer.
23 118 Q. You wouldn't have said Irish Intercontinental Bank?
24 A. No.
25 119 Q. Forget Irish Intercontinental Bank, they are out of
26 the picture, they are merely the instrument?
27 A. Yes .
28 120 Q. They are a mere instrument for the carrying out of
29 this situation. You would have believed that you
24
1 owed it to JDT?
2 A. Yes.
3 121 Q. Mr. Traynor. Was there interest on this or was he
4 giving it as a shareholder?
5 A. No, it was a totally separate transaction.
6 122 Q. There must have been interest on it so?
7 A. There would have been interest charged on it
8 eventually.
9 123 Q. What was the agreed interest rate?
10 A. In those situations, Sir, you don't certain concern
11 yourself with the agreed interest rate when you are
12 dealing with somebody who you have known for all
13 those years and who has been your godfather.
14 124 Q. Yes, I understand that.
15 A. You don't query the interest; you know you won't be
16 robbed. What is very interesting about this
17 transaction -- and you might find this very strange
18 -- is that we paid back a lot less money than we
19 borrowed because the currencies changed in the
20 interim. He could have asked us for Ir£750,000 but
21 that is not what we paid him back. I don't know
22 what the exact figure was but now that you produced
23 this piece of paper (Exhibit 3) I remember the thing
24 quite clearly. We paid him in Sterling and we paid
25 him a lot less than the Ir£750,000 equivalent at the
26 time of payment. He could have said if he was
27 dishonest or not an upstanding man 'You got
28 Ir£750,000 and I would like you to pay me back
29 Ir£750,000. That is not what he did.
25
1 125 Q. Did you think it was coming from College Trustees?
2 A. That is not the way he operated. In my experience
3 that is not the way he operated; it could have come
4 from anywhere.
5 126 Q. I understand that. I am trying to get inside your
6 mind, don't mind his mind for the moment?
7 A. Once he was doing what I wanted him to do I didn't
8 ask what it was.
9 127 Q. But he, Mr. Mulhern, was College Trustees. He was
10 the man who had set up the deal with College
11 Trustees?
12 A. But that was a separate thing.
13 128 Q. I understand that. He was the man who gave you
14 £750,000 without telling you where it came from or
15 you wondering where it came from and without any
16 arrangement with regard to interest or repayment?
17 A. Mr. O'Leary, you would have to understand the
18 history of my relationship with him. I am
19 obviously not making that very clear. On many
20 occasions in other years involving other deals or
21 transactions you would go to him and say 'I want to
22 do this or that.' He would say 'Let me think about
23 it.' Two or three days later he would ring you and
24 say 'Go and see David Went in City Bank. Go and see
25 Gerry Tierney in Northern Bank Finance.' And when
26 you went in the thing was done.
27 129 Q. Yes, I can understand that.
28 A. All you had to do was sign. That was my
29 relationship with him.
26
1 130 Q. I understand that.
2 A. I never asked him where anything came from. I was
3 so glad that he could find a solution. It was the
4 solution I was interested in.
5 131 Q. Mr. Mulhern, if you stop and think about what you
6 have just said to me. I know you are doing your
7 very best to be honest with me. I know that.
8 But if you stop and think about what you said, it
9 actually shows up the strangeness of this deal.
10 You said on many other occasions you would ask him
11 for some arrangement. He would think about it for
12 a day or two and then he would say 'Go and see some
13 other banker' and he would have the necessary
14 arrangements made. But when you went into the
15 other banker you signed a document, a promissory
16 note. You signed something. You were getting
17 money and you were going to pay it back and there
18 was an interest rate. This is an entirely
19 different situation?
20 A. But the interest rate would have been the current
21 interest rate at the time. One knew what interest
22 rates were. You are asking me now. I cannot
23 remember what the interest rate was.
24 132 Q. No, I don't want to know a number. Are you saying
25 to me that it was your understanding that you were
26 paying the current interest rate?
27 A. If you want to borrow money you have to pay for it.
28 133 Q. Did you pay interest on it?
29 A. I am sure there was interest at the repayment
27
1 period.
2 134 Q. I wonder would you therefore get some person in your
3 organisation in a responsible position -- you can do
4 it yourself if you like -- to indicate the date on
5 which this money was received in, the date it was
6 sent back out and to whom it was paid. When you
7 sent it back out who did you pay it to?
8 A. Can I keep this piece of paper?
9 135 Q. Absolutely. Every piece of paper I am going to
10 give you, you can keep it. It may well be that on
11 some other pieces of paper there may be other
12 information about other people. We may have to
13 eliminate some information not relevant to yourself.
14 Rest assured that anything which is relevant to
15 yourself, you can keep that information. It is
16 important that you keep it. What I am particularly
17 anxious to know is, when you made that repayment was
18 it by cheque, by bank draft, by cash? Who was it
19 made out to? That is something, which if you tell
20 us we can then check with the appropriate financial
21 institution?
22 A. Yes.
23 136 Q. Because that may give us some idea of what was in
24 your mind at that stage.
25 A. Yes.
26 137 Q. I am sure you are doing your very best at the
27 moment. But if somebody asked me to say what
28 happened in 1992 I might not be 100% sure either.
29 I will now show you Exhibit 4 -- page 30. You will
28
1 see there that there appears to have been a payment
2 out of that account of £703,000 -- I suspect that is
3 a Sterling account and that is why there is a
4 differential -- on 31st July 1992 which appears to
5 correspondend to the Ir£750,000 which was made
6 available to your company?
7 A. Yes .
8 138 Q. You can see that it came out of Cayman International
9 & Bank & Trust Company Ltd?
10 A. Yes .
11 139 Q. You can see that was a total account. That was the
12 account in Irish Intercontinental Bank of Cayman
13 International at that stage, which was some
14 £10,000,000. He paid Ir£750,000 out of that for
15 you. If you look now at Exhibit 5 -- page 31 --
16 you see the position there. This shows £703,000
17 not on exactly the same date, but it might be the
18 date it was repaid. Coincidentally it is the same
19 sum of money. You will see that that account is
20 noted as S9. Do you see up on the top right-hand
21 corner S9?
22 A. Yes .
23 140 Q. And you see it is coming from S7 to S9?
24 A. Yes .
25 141 Q. There was an internal transaction. It would appear
26 that the money was lodged back into S9, the £703,500
27 and was subsequently transferred to S7?
28 A. Yes .
29 142 Q. One of the matters we have to consider of course is

1 whether you were the owner of S7 or S9?
2 A. Yes .
3 143 Q. What do you have to say about that?
4 A. There are seven people in this room. As sure as
5 there are seven people in this room I had nothing to
6 do with S7 or S9. It is very important to me, Sir,
7 that you understand that. And if I say that, that
8 is fact. And there is no colour on the fact.
9 144 Q. Of course, Mr. Mulhern, it is not right to say that
10 you had nothing to do with it. It may not have
11 been yours; that is a different matter all together.
12 But it does appear that you got £703,000 or your
13 company did at an appropriate time, so you can
14 hardly say you had nothing to do with it?
15 A. You made the suggestion that S7 or S9 might have
16 been mine.
17 145 Q. I am saying that is a possibility we have to
18 consider.
19 A. I didn't own any part, penny worth of that.
20 146 Q. In fact Ms. Mackey mentions to me that I should
21 bring your attention for the sake of completeness to
22 Exhibit 3 -- page 29 -- which is the Ansbacher
23 headed paper. You will see that there is an
24 instruction there to DPC from Mr. Traynor.
25 Do you know who DPC is?
26 A. No.
27 147 Q. Mr. Padraig Collery. It says: "Please debit S9."
28 In other words, the £750,000 which you got came from
29 S9. Mr. Mulhern, if you will please look at

1 Exhibit 6 -- page 33. I should explain to you,
2 Mr. Mulhern, in case you don't know yourself already
3 that the Ansbacher accounts were changed in name
4 from Ansbacher to Hamilton Ross during that period
5 of time. But there were no other changes in the
6 accounts of any kind. In fact if you compare the
7 Hamilton Ross notepaper with the Ansbacher
8 notepaper, you will see that they are exactly the
9 same, telephone numbers and everything, in all
10 particularities. Hamilton Ross was a mere flag of
11 convenience by which Ansbacher was later known.
12 It is a different corporate entity but you can take
13 it that everything Hamilton Ross had originated in
14 Ansbacher.
15
16 Exhibit 6 is Stg£1.3m sent by Hamilton Ross through
17 Irish Intercontinental Bank to Clayton Love
18 Distribution Ltd. Do you remember that
19 transaction?
20 A. I don't but I am sure it is tenable.
21 148 Q. This is 27th July 1993 - how does that relate in
22 time to the purchase of the shares?
23 A. It is coming up to that period.
24 149 Q. When do you think the purchase was?
25 A. 29th October.
26 150 Q. But presumably it was agreed sometime previous to
27 that?
28 A. It had been going on for some time.
29 151 Q. You were holding an extraordinary general meeting on
31
1 29th October and it couldn't be done before that.
2 This is an extraordinarily large sum of money,
3 Mr. Mulhern?
4 A. It is.
5 152 Q. Your company apparently got 31,300,000 shares.
6 For what did it get £1,300,000?
7 A. I am not au fait with this but I am sure we can
8 provide a perfectly clear explanation.
9 153 Q. As you will appreciate, in respect of the last one
10 and in respect of this documentary evidence from
11 your records with regard to its receipt and the
12 payment of it back, if it was paid, or the purpose
13 of it is important so that we can come to a
14 conclusion. You can take it for the purpose of the
15 exercise that we will be considering Hamilton Ross
16 and Ansbacher to be one and the same entity for this
17 purpose. Just for this purpose. They have other
18 distinctions but for the purpose of deciding whether
19 or not people were clients of Ansbacher at that
20 stage, there was no distinction between Hamilton
21 Ross and Ansbacher. Was there a second deal do you
22 think or was it a different purpose because this is
23 a year later?
24 A. That's right.
25 154 Q. Was there a second proposed deal?
26 A. I am not sure about this one. That one I am sure
27 about because I remember at the time we paid back
28 £672,000 or £670,000 odd rather than Ir£750,000, so
29 we actually made money on borrowing those funds.
32
1 That stuck in my mind; that is why I remember that
2 one. This one I don't remember but I am sure we
3 will be able to explain it.
4 155 Q. The extraordinary thing about it is, even that
5 itself is extraordinary because everybody says that
6 Mr. Traynor was very fair man?
7 A. Yes.
8 156 Q. Everybody who comes in here says that. They also
9 say he was a very efficient man and that he looked
10 after people's money with extreme diligence. In
11 other words, if you gave Mr. Traynor money you could
12 do it in perfect safety, he wouldn't fiddle you out
13 of money. I think you share that view from the way
14 you are nodding your head?
15 A. Absolutely.
16 157 Q. As you now appreciate the person whose money it was
17 lost a sizable sum of money which would rightly be
18 his by reason of Mr. Traynor agreeing to accept a
19 lower sum of money?
20 A. He didn't, he accepted the same Sterling value that
21 he started with; the currency had changed in the
22 meantime.
23 158 Q. In other words, the currency profit was yours.
24 That would seem to suggest that he wasn't living up
25 to his normal high standards of looking after
26 people's money or alternatively that it made little
27 difference because it was your money in the first
28 place?
29 A. I wish you were right.
33
1 159 Q. Or somebody with whom you were closely connected?
2 A. The answer is no.
3 160 Q. You see what I am saying, that it is out of
4 character that he would do that to an investor?
5 A. He earned the interest, whatever that was. It just
6 happened that the ball bounced the right way as far
7 as we were concerned in that period.
8 161 Q. I understand what you mean. I will show you
9 Exhibit 7 -- page 34. This is the actual
10 withdrawal from Irish Intercontinental Bank, the
11 Hamilton Ross account. It is now a Hamilton Ross
12 account even though it is precisely the same type of
13 account as the other one but it is now down to
14 £4,000,000. You can see that the £1,300,000 is
15 withdrawn. You will come back to us on that?
16 A. I certainly will.
17 162 Q. I will show you now Exhibit 7 -- page 36.
18 The remainder of that document relates to other
19 people and it would be unfair of us to show it to
20 you. But if your professional advisers wish to see
21 the original document there is no difficulty in
22 showing it to them?
23 MR. MOHAN: That won't be necessary.
24 163 Q. JUDGE O'LEARY: I have it here in front of
25 me; anyone can come up and
26 have a look at it. I prefer however not to give it
27 into your possession so as not to identify other
28 people. This is Guinness Mahon Jersey Trust
29 account. This is way back in 1974. You see down
34
1 towards the end "Re John Mulhern settlement £500?
2 A. Yes .
3 164 Q. That seems to have been paid re John Mulhern
4 settlement. What can you tell us about that?
5 A. It is £500 in 1974 so I wouldn't be good at that.
6 165 Q. Mr. Mulhern, you are an intelligent man. You know
7 very well that I don't care about the £500.
8 It is the "re John Mulhern settlement" that I am
9 interested in, not the £500?
10 A. I cannot imagine what it is.
11 166 Q. They didn't imagine it?
12 A. No, I cannot imagine what it is. I don't know what
13 it is. You are asking me and I don't know.
14 167 Q. Did you have a settlement or a trust in Jersey at
15 around at that time?
17 168 Q. Irrespective of whether you used it or not?
19 169 Q. It is an unusual name "John Mulhern?"
20 A. Absolutely.
21 170 Q. Can you give me any explanation?
22 A. That is an old Guinness & Mahon statement; I would
23 recognise the statement.
24 171 Q. You can see that they had an account called
25 Guinness Mahon Jersey Trust Ltd. You can take it
26 that all the other transactions are from people who
27 established trusts of one kind or another and that
28 is why I won't show you the names. Your
29 professional advisors can look at them without any
35
1 difficulty. In that we see "re John Mulhern
2 settlement."
3 A. I couldn't tell you what it is. I wouldn't have a
4 clue.
5 172 Q. I understand you couldn't tell me what it is, but
6 do you know what it is? That is a slightly
7 different matter?
8 A. No, if I knew I would tell you.
9 173 Q. It is not necessarily the same thing. When you
10 practice law in Kerry like I do and people say to
11 you things like 'I couldn't tell you that' that does
12 not mean that he doesn't know, it merely says
13 'I couldn't tell you.' You understand?
14 A. I do.
15 174 Q. So you will forgive me if I have to pursue you a
16 little bit on that matter?
17 A. That is all right.
18 175 Q. You understand the difference?
19 A. I do but I cannot tell you. I don't know.
20 176 Q. You don't know is a better way of putting it.
21 That was way back in 1974. Did you at a later
22 stage use the facilities in Jersey or Guernsey or
23 the Channel Islands or the Cayman Islands for a
24 settlement of some kind?
25 A. Not that I can remember. But it is possible that
26 JDT did it that way, I don't know. I cannot
27 remember specifically.
28 177 Q. The establishment of a settlement or trust or
29 anything of that nature, certainly if it was done by

1 yourself you would remember it?
2 A. You would.
3 178 Q. It is not a thing we do everyday of the week.
4 It is a bit unusual?
5 A. What is very unusual about it is 1974. In 1974 I
6 was living in a bedsitter down the road from here.
7 I cannot help you but I will see if I can put some
8 sense on it. That is two years after we bought the
9 business off Clayton Love.
10 179 Q. As you will appreciate, a bit of forward prudent
11 planning by Mr. Traynor might have been considered
12 appropriate?
13 A. It might have been.
14 180 Q. Did you ever use such a trust later?
16 181 Q. A settlement?
18 182 Q. What security do you remember did you give for the
19 borrowing at the time you bought out the Clayton
20 Love family?
21 A. All the shares in the company.
22 183 Q. Did you have a company with which you were
23 associated called Icecream Marketing Ltd?
24 A. Correct.
25 184 Q. How did that fit into the general structure?
26 I have seen the returns and that sort of thing.
27 I am not interested in that?
28 A. It was subsidiary of Clayton Love Distribution Ltd
29 that we set up to handle the importation and
37
1 distribution of Lyonsmade Icecream in this country.
2 185 Q. So it was a subsidiary of yours?
3 A. Yes.
4 186 Q. Was it used ultimately in the share purchase scheme.
5 Did it have some involvement in that?
6 A. I don't think it had.
7 187 Q. I probably picked that up incorrectly. Did that
8 have money offshore or in Belfast or London on
9 deposit?
10 A. I wouldn't think so because it wasn't a very
11 successful company, all it had was losses.
12 188 Q. In 1975 we have an internal document from GMI which
13 calls that reply into question. I will give you
14 Exhibit 8 -- page 48. You see "Icecream Marketing
15 Ltd."
16 A. Yes.
17 189 Q. The first of the two of them there. This is an
18 internal GMI document. You can see that they have
19 down in respect of the first of the two loans
20 "suitably secured."
21 A. Yes.
22 190 Q. We have received sworn evidence from GMI -- and
23 indeed the Moriarty Tribunal received similar sworn
24 evidence -- that the term "suitably secured" meant
25 that there was a backing deposit in respect of the
26 loan. It may not have been in Cayman of course, in
27 which case we are not the slightest bit interested
28 in it except to eliminate it from our enquiries.
29 But that it was somewhere. It was either in
38
1 Cayman, in the Channel Islands or in one of the
2 other subsidiaries, either Britain or the North of
3 Ireland. Overwhelmingly in the Channel Islands or
4 Cayman. What money was backing that loan?
5 A. I couldn't tell you, Sir.
6 191 Q. There must have been some money backing it?
7 A. Obviously, but I don't know.
8 192 Q. Did Mr. Traynor ever say to you 'I am going to back
9 that loan with some cash that I have?'
10 A. Not to my recollection.
11 193 Q. Did the company ever have money itself offshore?
12 A. In 1975 I cannot imagine what it was.
13 194 Q. You can take it that suitably secured has only that
14 meaning?
15 A. You are telling me that and I have to accept that.
16 195 Q. If you want to question the man from the bank, you
17 will be entitled to do that in due course. But I
18 am telling you that is what he swore on oath and
19 that is what another member of the bank also swore
20 on oath at the Moriarty Tribunal. So I am putting
21 to you that there is something that needs
22 explanation?
23 A. Yes. I will certainly look into it and see if I
24 can throw any light on it, but as of
25 now...(INTERJECTION).
26 196 Q. Are you familiar with a company called
27 Clarkwood Holdings?
28 A. Yes .
29 197 Q. What company is that?

1 A. It was a company that I owned and put some purchases
2 through.
3 198 Q. Was it part of the frozen food situation?
4 A. No, it was to do with horses.
5 199 Q. You bought and sold horses through that company, is
6 that correct?
7 A. I bought horses certainly.
8 200 Q. Who were the shareholders of the company?
9 A. Me.
10 201 Q. Effectively yourself?
11 A. Yes.
12 202 Q. Was Mr. Traynor involved in that company?
13 A. No.
14 203 Q. Had he any involvement at all?
15 A. No.
16 204 Q. Do you know whether he ever provided a service for
17 the company?
18 A. No.
19 205 Q. Where did the company bank?
20 A. I think its only bankers were Guinness & Mahon.
21 206 Q. Is it trading now?
22 A. It may still be in existence but it is not trading.
23 207 Q. When did its trading start approximately?
24 A. Late 1970's maybe.
25 208 Q. When did it stop trading did you say?
26 A. I would say the last set of accounts that went in
27 would have been 1998 or 1999.
29 A. That means absolutely nothing to me.
40
1 210 Q. The problem, Mr. Mulhern, is that to me it means
2 that there was some connection between Ansbacher and
3 Clarkwood Holdings. Why would Ansbacher or
4 Guinness & Mahon have been making a payment of £45
5 to Clarkwood Holdings. It was hardly for the
6 purchase of a horse or the sale of a horse either?
7 A. I cannot imagine.
8 211 Q. You told me that Mr. Traynor had nothing to do with
9 it?
10 A. Nothing.
11 212 Q. At this stage Mr. Traynor had now left Guinness &
12 Mahon?
13 A. Yes.
14 213 Q. He was no longer operating as Executive in Guinness
15 & Mahon. You can see that in fact that he was even
16 using other note paper. In the very early days he
17 continued to use internal memos because it was that
18 kind of relationship. But obviously as time went
19 on it became more formal and he wrote to them with
20 Ansbacher note paper, a reply to 42, Fitzwilliam
21 Square. He wrote to Mr Humphries and said:
22 "Dear David,
Could you please arrange to let me have
23 for collectionn a sterling draft for
Stg£45,00. Debit the cost to Ansbacher
24 United account... ."
25
26 A. Yes.
27 214 Q. Your company appears to have got £45 Sterling from
28 Ansbacher?
29 A. If we did I don't know what it was for but I will
41
1 try to find out for you.
2 215 Q. I am taking these documents in the order which I get
3 them here. If you now look at Exhibit 10 -- pages
4 61 and 63. Mr. Mulhern, I have here four pages of
5 a schedule. You are only getting the extract which
6 relates to you. These are the names of all of the
7 people who had loans with Guinness & Mahon that were
8 suitably secured?
9 A. Yes.
10 216 Q. I have extracted from those the ones relevant to
11 your company. If you look at page 61 you will see
12 "Icecream Marketing Ltd - £40,000."
13 This is a schedule prepared by GMI for us dealing
14 with 31st October 1974. It is saying that on
15 31st October 1974 Icecream Marketing Ltd owed
16 £40,000 and it was backed by external funds
17 somewhere. I am asking you where the external
18 funds were located that backed it?
20 217 Q. If you look at page 63 of Exhibit 10 you will see
21 that in 1978 from the same source £80,000 was owed
22 by Icecream Marketing Ltd which was secured
23 according to Guinness & Mahon in respect of external
24 funds. I am asking you where those external funds
25 were that are backing that £80,000?
26 A. I am saying to you that I couldn't tell you.
27 I don't know.
28 218 Q. Do you know anything about a company called
29 Debon Arabia Contracts Ltd?
42
1 A. Yes.
2 219 Q. Would you tell me about that company?
3 A. It is a company that Desmond Traynor set up.
4 I don't actually know the purpose of it but it was
5 set up by him supposedly in Guernsey or Jersey.
6 220 Q. When was it established?
7 A. 1990 or 1991.
8 221 Q. Sometime anyway a good few years before he died.
9 He died in May 1994. It was therefore a few years
10 before he died. Was it your company?
11 A. If you are saying has it anything do with those
12 items there, I don't think it had anything to do
13 with those.
14 222 Q. That is not what I am asking you at all because
15 they are very much later; that is totally different
16 altogether. I am not asking you that. This is
17 quite a separate question, nothing to do with any
18 other questions I asked you. This is a question in
19 its own right. Could you tell me whether or not
20 you were the legal or beneficial owner of
21 Debon Arabia Contracts Ltd?
22 A. I don't know that. It was a company that was
23 available to be used if we required it. That is as
24 it was.
25 223 Q. It was an offshore vehicle established for your use
26 if you wanted to use it. There is nothing wrong
27 with that. I am not criticising you in any way for
28 that. But it was available to you. And did you
29 in fact use it?
43
1 A. I am not sure whether we did. I don't believe we
2 ever put a transaction through it.
3 224 Q. Was it your intention at some stage to use it?
4 A. I think it was originally a shelf company that
5 existed in Deloitte & Touche or in Guinness & Mahon,
6 one of the two.
7 225 Q. But insofar as it was used at all, so far as you
8 were aware it was a very peripheral involvement, is
9 that correct?
10 A. It was just a facility that was there if it was
11 required as I understood it.
12 226 Q. Did you pay for the cost of establishing this
13 company do you think?
14 A. I don't know.
15 227 Q. Could you check that for me?
16 A. Yes .
17 228 Q. D-E-B-O-N Arabia Contracts Ltd?
18 A. Are you thinking that £45 is what that might be?
19 229 Q. I am not thinking at all at the moment. I am not
20 actually. That £45 may have nothing to do with
21 that. It may have, I don't know. What was the
22 date of it?
23 A. 1990.
24 230 Q. Maybe it was, I don't know. I think it is
25 unlikely. I don't think you would establish any
26 company for £45. Did it ever have a bank account,
27 do you know?
28 A. I don't think so. It may have had.
29 I don't believe it did.

1 231 Q. If I mention AIB Channel Islands in Jersey as being
2 the possible place it had a bank account what would
3 you have said?
4 A. It could have.
5 232 Q. That would be one of the places that it could have?
6 A. It could be.
7 233 Q. If I was to say to you that a sum of £1,700,178.75
8 was transferred to that bank account in February
9 1994, what would you say to me?
10 A. In February 1994 it is possible, Sir, I am not sure
11 234 Q. Mr. Mulhern, I think we are gone away from £45
12 payments now which you certainly couldn't be
13 expected to remember. But even a man of your
14 diverse interests would remember whether or not
15 £1,700,000 was transferred to Jersey?
16 A. I can certainly check it up, Sir.
17 235 Q. I understand that you can check it up and we would
18 greatly appreciate if you can check it up.
19 The question is, do you remember it?
20 A. I don't remember it.
21 236 Q. Would you show Mr. Mulhern Exhibit 11 -- page 79.
22 I am going to adjourn now for about ten minutes.
23
24 SHORT ADJOURNMENT
25
26
27
28
29
45
1 MR. MOHAN: Before you begin,
2 Chairman -- I have just
3 had an opportunity to go through some things.
4 It does appear that we prepared a statement based
5 upon what the perceived terms of reference were and
6 how it affected Mr. Mulhern. Now you have given us
7 a series of documents which date from as far back as
8 1973/1974 up to 1993/1994, which is a gap with all
9 that entails. I must say I am quite concerned
10 about the way the questioning has gone. In no way
11 do I want to appear to be critical of you, Sir, in
12 this regard. But it does appear to be, when the
13 reply comes that my client is unaware or is unable
14 to help or doesn't know, a natural enough reaction
15 of an implied criticism in that regard. And hence
16 when I had asked at the outset could we have sight
17 of the documents, we would be in a much better
18 position to assist you in relation to all of those
19 documents.
20 JUDGE O'LEARY: Mr. Mohan, that is of
21 course correct.
22 Of course you would be but part of the investigating
23 process is that we get information from people and
24 put that to people. Part of our assessment is
25 assessing the reaction of a person to documents
26 which are put to them.
27 MR. MOHAN: But with the greatest
28 respect, it is form of
29 trial by ambush.
46
1 JUDGE O'LEARY: No, it is not.
2 I repeated time and time
3 again that Mr. Mulhern isn't accused of anything,
4 all I am trying to find out is the extent of
5 Ansbacher business and whether he was a client.
6 That is all.
7 MR. MOHAN: I appreciate that.
8 But you say he is not
9 accused of anything.
10 JUDGE O'LEARY: He is not accused of
11 anything.
12 MR. MOHAN: I know that but
13 sometimes you might be
14 forgiven for thinking so because of the nature of
15 some of the questions that are put to him.
16 JUDGE O'LEARY: Mr. Mohan, if you listen
17 to the answers that I
18 listen to and ...(INTERJECTION). Really it is not
19 the time for submissions.
20 MR. MOHAN: I want to make one point
21 and it is this: I have
22 instructions from my client to cooperate in the
23 fullest extent possible. I think you have seen
24 that certainly in some measure this afternoon.
25 JUDGE O'LEARY: But have I ever suggested
26 for one moment that your
27 client wasn't cooperating?
28 MR. MOHAN: No. What I am coming to
29 is this point and you may
47
1 disagree with it: I would feel that we would be in
2 a much better position to assist armed with this
3 documentation and whatever other documentation you
4 have which has not been put to him. If we had
5 that, we could prepare a more detailed statement for
6 him and to re-visit here on foot of that letter.
7 JUDGE O'LEARY: Mr. Mohan, the position is
8 that these type of
9 enquiries -- and it is an enquiry into Ansbacher --
10 have been conducted in this method for quite a long
11 time. It is specifically provided in the Act.
12 As far as I am concerned I am looking for
13 explanations. I made it quite clear that I am not
14 limited to today in the explanations which I am
15 given. Any explanation I get after today will get
16 precisely the same weight. I don't expect your
17 client to know about a £45 payment. That would be
18 ridiculous. I would however think that he might
19 have some memory of a payment of £1,700,000.
20 It is an entirely different thing. I am going to
21 continue with the questioning, Mr. Mohan, and if we
22 come to any preliminary conclusion -- it is only
23 if -- which is potentially unfavourable to the
24 interests of your client, we will of course hear any
25 evidence he wants to put. We will listen to any
26 submissions you or any other counsel or solicitor
27 wants to make on his behalf and anything he wants to
28 say himself. He can call whatever evidence he
29 likes. At the moment I am continuing with the
48
1 enquiries.
2 MR. MOHAN: I simply wanted to make
3 the point and you have
4 noted the points that I have made.
5 237 Q. JUDGE O'LEARY: I have indeed noted them
6 carefully and I want to
7 emphasise that this is an enquiry under the
8 Companies Act and that is all it is. Getting back
9 to page 79 — Exhibit 11 — Mr. Mulhern, that
10 appears to me to be an instruction from
11 Ms. Williams. Do you know Ms. Williams?
12 A. I knew Ms. Williams.
13 238 Q. She is now retired. She worked with Mr. Traynor,
14 isn't that correct?
16 239 Q. She worked with him in Guinness & Mahon and later in
17 CRH?
19 240 Q. She was his secretary at 42, Fitzwilliam Square?
20 A. Yes.
21 241 Q. Did you in fact ever visit 42, Fitzwilliam Square?
22 A. I did.
23 242 Q. For the purpose of business?
24 A. To see him.
25 243 Q. For business purposes or not for business purposes?
26 A. (No answer).
27 244 Q. In February 1994 Mr. Traynor was still alive, isn't
28 that correct?
29 A. Yes.
49
1 245 Q. Your transaction with College Trustees was over?
2 A. Correct.
3 246 Q. Having been completed in 1993?
4 A. Correct.
5 247 Q. There was this company which you could have used if
6 you wanted to and which apparently was used by
7 somebody to the extent of transferring £1,700,000 in
8 Sterling from Hamilton Ross/Ansbacher to AIB at
9 St. Helier, Jersey?
10 A. Yes .
11 248 Q. Do you know anything about that?
12 A. You are asking me about a specific transaction that
13 I should remember and I don't remember that
14 transaction. And I don't remember the timing of it
15 but I can check it up and report back to you.
16 249 Q. Please do that and it would be very worthwhile if
17 you would check up on that and get back to us on it.
18 Did any company that you were associated with at or
19 around that time -- whether or not Debon Arabia
20 Contracts Ltd -- have an account in AIB at AIB
21 House, Grenville Street, St. Helier?
22 A. They may well have had, Sir, because I wouldn't have
23 any involvement. That would have been a lawyer's or
24 accountant's decision if there was such a thing in
25 existence.
26 250 Q. While I understand that accountants might make
27 arrangements for you, they certainly wouldn't open
28 an account for you, Mr. Mulhern. They wouldn't
29 open an account for you without your instructions?
50
1 A. Then it cannot have been my account.
2 251 Q. Are you satisfied that we can take it that you had
3 no interest in that £1,700,000?
4 A. If JDT opened an account, he could open it in any
5 name on behalf of anyone. That was how he worked.
6 You might find that strange but he on behalf of his
7 clients acted in what he thought was their best
8 interests. In the same way with some of the other
9 pieces of paper you gave me, I couldn't explain what
10 they are or how they came into existence or why.
11 But there will be an explanation.
12 252 Q. As you will appreciate, Mr. Mulhern, this particular
13 one we are looking at now is in a different
14 category?
15 A. Yes, I see that.
16 253 Q. Because it goes to that company. I don't know who
17 the beneficial owner of that is. I don't know who
18 the beneficial owner of that company. I do accept
19 what you said, that you had some knowledge of the
20 company and you could have used it. That doesn't
21 prove that you actually used it, of course not.
22 Some of the other documents are in an entirely
23 different category because they are money which
24 admittedly ended up in your accounts. What we are
25 talking about is the state of your knowledge.
26 It actually ended up in your accounts so these are
27 factual matters. In this case we don't know where
28 it ended up really. I would like you to
29 investigate that and report back to me on that
51
1 particularly?
2 A. I will also report back to you, Sir, on the other
3 one that you sprung at me for £1,300,000 in 1993.
4 254 Q. And the £750,000?
5 A. The £750,000 I know about but the £1,300,000
6 . . . (INTERJECTION) .
7 255 Q. If you remember the £750,000, you were going to tell
8 me the date you received it, the interest which you
9 paid on it and who you made the repayment to?
10 A. Absolutely. I am only in the mists of my mind now.
11 The £1,300,000 had me mystified. But what the
12 £1,300,000 may have been was the fact that I may
13 have owed my own company monies and if the business
14 was going to be sold to Waterford Foods at that time
15 I may have wanted to pay that back into the company
16 so that it was there. That the debt wasn't down as
17 a debt to a director.
18 256 Q. I understand that. If you did that, whose money
19 was used for that purpose?
20 A. I may have borrowed the money to put that back in
21 in the light that the Waterford Foods transaction
22 was going to take place.
23 257 Q. From Ansbacher?
24 A. From JDT.
25 258 Q. From Ansbacher effectively?
26 A. You are saying that to me now, Sir. It is very
27 easy to be wise at this time. At that time I would
28 have borrowed it from JDT and it wouldn't have had
29 anything to do with Ansbacher so far as I was
52
1 concerned.
2 259 Q. Did you think when he was operating from
3 42, Fitzwilliam Square, Mr. Mulhern, that he was
4 operating some kind of personal loan service where
5 he made loans to people himself personally?
6 A. He supported anyone in a venture capital situation
7 that he had regard for or had been involved with or
8 had some success with. He was an unbelievably
9 helpful man.
10 260 Q. Where did you think the money was coming from?
11 A. He had been an enormous success himself.
12 I wasn't concerned; he could provide funds from
13 wherever. And that had been my experience over
14 30 years from £12,000 to £2,500,000.
15 261 Q. I will show you Exhibit 12 -- page 163 Mr. Mulhern.
16 To be fair to you, Mr. Mulhern, I should give you
17 every page from page 156 onwards. These are
18 reports and financial statements for Icecream
19 Marketing Ltd for 14 months to 14th July 1995.
20 They were audited by Deloitte & Touche. The first
21 page is "contents" (Exhibit 12) and nothing arises
22 in respect of that. The second page is the
23 directors of the company. Who is JT Johnson?
24 A. The company secretary and accountant.
25 262 Q. Does he operate from your business?
26 A. Yes .
27 263 Q. He is an employee in other words?
28 A. Yes .
29 264 Q. It looks as if the registered office is at

1 Deloitte & Touche rather than your own place of that
2 particular company anyway at that stage?
3 A. It could be.
4 265 Q. Page 160 shows the profit and loss account which
5 indeed shows a negative profit and loss situation
6 for Icecream Marketing Ltd as you indicated to me.
7 They are signed by yourself and Mr. Johnson.
8 Do you see "directors and secretaries interest in
9 shares" on page 163?
10 A. Yes.
11 266 Q. This is only typical of the kind of document which
12 you would have had for Clayton Love as well.
13 I picked it out because it just came to my
14 attention. It says:
15 "None of the directors or secretary had

an interest in the share of the company
16 at the end of the period. The
directors and secretary had the
17 following interest in the shares of
Clayton Love Distribution Limited, the
18 holding company at the end of the
period."
19
20 You yourself had 5499 and Mr. JT Johnson 1.
21 Mr. Johnson being the secretary had the same
22 interest in the same share. It is the next
23 paragraph that I am interested in. It says:
24 "The directors and secretary have no

interest in the "B" ordinary share
25 capital of Clayton Love Distribution
Limited. The directors who held
26 office until 31st July 1995 had the
following interest in the share capital
27 at the start of the financial period."
28
29 And then it went on to deal with that. Who had the
54
1 interest in those "B" ordinary shares at that time.
2 This is after the takeover?
4 267 Q. The reason I ask you is because of course you signed
5 the accounts, I didn't sign the accounts.
6 You signed the accounts and presumably as you signed
7 the accounts you would have had some knowledge of
8 them. You cannot make that statement unless you
9 know who had an interest in the "B" ordinary shares?
10 A. If the shareholding changed, as it obviously did
11 otherwise Deloitte & Touche wouldn't have put that
12 in. That is a technical thing and it wouldn't mean
13 anything to me.
14 268 Q. You don't know?
15 A. No, but we can find out.
16 269 Q. I am not really that terribly interested in the
17 factual situation. I am sure you are well advised
18 and that everything like that is absolutely
19 correctly done. I have no doubt about that.
20 It is the state of your knowledge that I am
21 interested in rather than the actual situation. I am
22 not suggesting for a moment that there is anything
23 illegal.
24 A. It wouldn't concern me; that is for somebody else to
25 worry about.
26 270 Q. Could I bring you back to something that may concern
27 you: Look at it from my point of view when I am
28 asking you the question. For one moment look at it
29 from my point of view. You have given me the
55
1 following information: At the time you were having
2 trouble with Findus or Nestle?
3 A. Yes.
4 271 Q. They were interfering in the way you wanted to run
5 your business?
6 A. Yes.
7 272 Q. And they wanted you to do things that were
8 unacceptable to you?
9 A. Yes.
10 273 Q. They were, as you said, spending more time in
11 lawyers's offices than they were in the business?
12 A. Yes.
13 274 Q. So you had a bitter experience. And I am sure it
14 was from the way you spoke about it?
15 A. Yes.
16 275 Q. This is what I have picked up, that you had a bitter
17 experience of an interfering minority shareholder?
19 276 Q. In that context another minority shareholder by the
20 name of College Trustees arrives on the scene
21 arranged of course by your good friend, Mr. Traynor.
22 But why did you not suddenly consider yourself
23 'Am I going from the frying pan into the fire.
24 I am giving 45% of company to people and I don't
25 even know who they are.' What do you say about
26 that?
27 A. Exactly as I said to you earlier, I had never found
28 him wanting previously so why should I have been
29 concerned about it then. If he said it would be
56
1 all right, it would be all right.
2 277 Q. That may well be the case, no doubt you had a lot of
3 reliance on his word and that sort of thing.
4 But ultimately it wasn't Mr. Des Traynor who was
5 buying the shares, it was College Trustees.
6 They could have fallen out with Des Traynor the
7 following week and you were left with 45% of a
8 shareholding from people you didn't even know?
9 A. My assumption was that College Trustees was part of
10 Guinness & Mahon as I explained to you.
11 278 Q. But did you think that Guinness & Mahon were
12 actually taking a share in your company or did you
13 think that they were acting for somebody else.
14 That is the point I am making to you?
15 A. No. If Guinness & Mahon had taken a part in the
16 company they would have charged interest the same as
17 everybody else and they would have got paid at the
18 end of day. That is what they would have done.
19 279 Q. So it wasn't Guinness & Mahon?
20 A. If JDT put some form of company into play on my
21 behalf, I didn't have any concern that it was in
22 anything but the safest of hands. But that there
23 has something to do with the changeover after we
24 bought in the shares because after we bought the
25 shares in there were no "B" shares.
26 280 Q. I don't know, that is what it says?
27 A. I am assuming that is what happened.
28 281 Q. You might get an explanation. There is probably a
29 technical explanation for it and all I want to do is
57
1 find out what the technical explanation is so that I
2 can forget about it.
3 MR. MOHAN: It will be forthcoming.
4 282 Q. JUDGE O'LEARY: Exactly. Who were the
5 directors of your company
6 in 1991, Mr. Mulhern, do you remember approximately?
7 A. I would say that Mrs. Love was the Chairman.
8 283 Q. Is that A.G. Love?
9 A. Yes. Myself, Mr. Johnson and I am not
10 sure...(INTERJECTION).
11 284 Q. There is one more, Mr. Field-Corbett?
12 A. Sam Field-Corbett would have been there looking
13 after the interests of College Trustees.
14 285 Q. Mr. Mulhern, you never told me that before.
15 Are you saying to me that when College Trustees got
16 45% of the company, they put in a director?
17 A. They were entitled to do that.
18 286 Q. I am not saying they weren't but you never told me
19 that?
20 A. He had no influence whatsoever in what happened.
21 287 Q. But he was a director?
22 A. There is nothing strange about that.
23 288 Q. No, except that when I was asking you about the
24 thing from the very beginning, you never said to me
25 that there was a director appointed by the "B"
26 shareholders ?
27 A. He never attended a meeting in the whole time that
28 they were involved.
29 289 Q. Did you meet the man?

1 A. I met him the day that College Trustees took over
2 and I met him the day that they left.
3 290 Q. So in other words your point of contact once the
4 deal was done with College Trustees was
5 Mr. Field-Corbett rather than Mr. Traynor?
6 A. No, Sir, it was not. I had no dealings with
7 Mr. Field-Corbett at all but when old Mr. Love died
8 and there was a space on the Board he was appointed
9 so called to look after the interests of the College
10 Trustees shareholders.
11 291 Q. What date was he appointed in that position?
12 A. I don't know but I can find out.
14 What did you say, Mr. Mulhern, was the way you
15 financed the £3,000,000?
16 A. I thought we did it from our own resources and
17 borrowings.
18 293 Q. How much had you of your own resources?
19 A. I thought it was £1,500,000.
20 294 Q. How much did you borrow?
21 A. We must have borrowed the balance.
22 295 Q. It appears to me that at 31st July 1994, which was
23 the first period after the transfer had taken place,
24 there was a new secured loan of £2,266,000.
25 Do you see that?
26 A. Yes .
27 296 Q. Could you point that out to me on the balance sheet
28 of Clayton Love -- I don't expect you to do it
29 now -- that £2,266,124 new secured loan.

1 I want to identify it on the balance sheet of the
2 company?
3 A. Okay.
4 297 Q. Because in fact in July 1994 there was £1,300,000
5 cash in the bank which was only changed from
6 £2,000,000 the previous year. In other words, at
7 the end of July 1993 you had £2,000,000 in the bank
8 but by July 1994 you had £1,370,000 in the bank.
9 So it doesn't appear to me that however it was
10 financed, that there was much of it financed in cash
11 if you understand the point I am making?
12 A. Yes.
13 298 Q. You might just have a look at that and give me an
14 explanation of that. I don't expect you to carry
15 the explanation around in your head for that.
16 It is obviously something I am interested in in view
17 of the other substantial money transfers which took
18 place. I have no further questions.
19 MS. MACKEY: I have no questions.
20 MR. MOHAN: I wonder would it be
21 suitable now to fix a date
22 for a second occasion or maybe to keep in touch with
23 you?
24 JUDGE O'LEARY: I think the best thing to
25 do, Mr. Mohan, is to send
26 us in information. We may not want to see
27 Mr. Mulhern again at all. We will have no
28 objection if you really want us to see him of
29 course. If we come to any conclusion on a
60
1 preliminary basis which is adverse or which could
2 possibly be adverse to the interests of Mr. Mulhern,
3 you will have an opportunity of coming in here and
4 calling evidence and doing anything you like with
5 regard to the matter.
6 MR. MOHAN: I accept that.
7 We do wish an opportunity
8 to deal with these issues raised and we will deal
9 with them in writing first.
10 JUDGE O'LEARY: Deal with them in writing
11 first. Then they will
12 either remain issues, in which case we will arrange
13 for another interview or they won't remain issues.
14 But I tell you one thing, Mr. Mohan, we are moving
15 on with speed at this stage.
16 MR. MOHAN: I don't doubt that for one
17 moment.
18 JUDGE O'LEARY: We are moving on because
19 it is hanging on for too
20 long and it is in nobody's interest to hang on.
21 While these are very important questions, I don't
22 think they are difficult questions.
23 MR. MOHAN: They are not but they may
24 take weeks in order to
25 gather some documentary information which may be of
26 interest.
27 JUDGE O'LEARY: I would expect
28 Mr. Mulhern's records of
29 his companies to be as organised as I would expect
61
1 them to be. I think they would be very well
2 organised. I think all that information would be
3 instantly available, not to Mr. Mulhern but to his
4 accountant.
5 MR. MULHERN: I hope you are right.
6 JUDGE O'LEARY: We will leave it at that
7 for the moment and we will
8 keep in touch.
10 END OF INTERVIEW WITH MR. JOHN MULHERN
11
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13
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15
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62
* h .
23-MRR-2001 17:31 FROM REDDY CHARLTON MCKNIGHT TO 2033929 P.02/04
NARRATIVE STATEMENT OF JOHN MULHERN

23"' MARCH 2001
I set up Clayton Love Distribution Limited in June 1966. This company was
then andls now a frozen food distribution company. The business was then
controlled by the Clayton Love family. I was, however, Managing Director of
the company. The business took some time.to establish and grew modestly
during the early years. In 1972, .'Nestle Limited, a multinational, and I
acquired the entire shareholding of Dayton Love Distribution Limitedfrom the
- Clayton Lovefamily. T purchased 55% of the shareholding and Nestle Limited
purchased 45% of the shareholding.
The company operated cold storage premises at SirJohn Rodgersons Quay in

the City of Dublin and operated a food distribution business throughout the
twenty six counties. My shareholding was purchased through a commercial
loan at normal commercial rates over a ten/fifteen year period.
Throughout the 1970's the company thrived adding extra brands to the
portfolio. Between 1978 and 1982 differences arose between the two
shareholders, namely myself and Nestle Umftecfs representatives. These
differences centred
• » on the control and direction of the company. It became
dear that one party would have to acquire the other party's shareholding and
interest Discussions and negotiations were protracted and took place in early
1982. Eventually a deal was worked put whereby a formula was reached
which fixed the value of the company. During these negotiations Mr
Desmond Traynor acted as my adviser.
In order to raise the funds to purchase the Nestle Limited shareholding I

contacted Guinness & Mahon Bank who had previously provided me with
banking facilities. Mr Desmond Traynor was then the Chief Executive of the
23-MfiR-2001 1?:31 FROM REDDY CHARLTON MCKNIGHT TO 2833929 P.03/04
bank and advised and assisted me with regard to raising the finance to
purchase the Nestle Limited shareholding,
Mr Desmond Traynor purchased the Nestle Pic shareholding on behalf of a

company called College Trustees Limited on the 27th January 1983 and
Exchange Control was granted for this transaction. I understood this company
to be an investment vehlcje. I remained m control of Clayton Love
. Distribution Limited and kept Mr Desmond Traynor informed on an annual
basis of the company's performance. No dividend was declared during the
period that College Trustees Limited were entitled to the benefidaj ownership
V-i' of 45% of the shareholding, nor was any return made to College Trustees
Limited for the Investment R was understood to be a capital investment
which would become mature in time.
In 1992 the company was approached by another larger food processing

company with a view to purchasing ail the shares of Dayton Love Distribution
Limited. This put the issue of the ownership of the company on the agenda.
I also was keen to acquire the flill ownership of the company. A formula was
agreed whereby the valuation of the company, wasfixed and based on. this,
valuation the company purchased the 45% shareholding held by College
Trustees Limited. The method by which this was done was that Clayton Love
Distribution Limited Infact purchased the shares owned by College Trustees
Limited. This deal was completed on the 29th day of October 1993.1 had no
further dealings with College Trustees Limited and Z never had any dealings
with Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited.
Having regard to the duration of time over which these matters have
transpired there has been some difficulty in obtaining documentation,-
however, any documentation which fs available will of course be furnished to
the Inspector.
23-MPR-2001 1?:32 from REDDV CHARLTON MCKNIGHT ' TO 2833929 P.04/04
®
1
The above transaction sets out the scope of my involvement with the various
companies referred to In your correspondence. I confirtn that I am happy to
make myself available for interview with you.
TtirTT)i*'ltllilW*tTil flM>lwHlMMKi>.THj^T TTf fWHVW

THIS AGREEMENT is made theac>* day of ÛX^j^y 4
1993 Between College Trustees Limited of P.O. Box '
122, St. Julians Court, St. Peters Port, Guernsey,
Channel Islands.
(hereinafter called "the Vendor") and Clayton Love
Distribution Limited whose registered office is at
Jamestown Road, Inchicore, Dublin 8 (hereinafter
called "the Purchaser").
WHEREAS:
1. The Purchaser was incorporated in the Republic of
Ireland on 20th August, 1981 under the Companies
Acts, 1963 to 1977 and has an authorised share
capital of £10,000 divided into 5,500 "A" Shares
of £1 each and 4,500 "B" Shares of £1 each of
which all the said shares are issued and fully
paid.
2. This Agreement is made by the Purchaser pursuant
to the powers conferred in Part XI of the
Companies Act, 1990 and by Article 39 of the
Articles of Association of the Purchaser and "
pursuant to a Special Resolution passed at an
Extraordinary General Meeting of the Purchaser
held on 29th October, 1993.
NOW IT IS AGREED as follows:
1. The Vendor shall sell. and the Purchaser shall
purchase .free from all liens, charges and
encumbrances 2,000 "B" Shares of £1 each in the
capital of'Clayton Love Distribution Limited from
the Vendor.
2. The Purchase price of each share shall be
IR£711.00 in cash.
3. Completion of the sale and purchase of shares
hereunder shall take place at Deloitte & Touche
House, Earlsfort Terrace, Dublin 2 on 29th
October, 1993 whereupon:
(a) the Vendor shall deliver to 'the Purchaser
share certificates oyer the shares now
being purchased or if the certificate(s)
is (are) lost such indemnity as the purchaser
shall reasonable require; and
(b) the Purchaser shall deliver to the Vendor a
cheque for the consideration due to the
Vendor.
4. Time shall be of the essence of this Agreement.
WiOAYTW ( W
5. The P u r c h a s e r s h a l l upon t h e purchase of t h e s a i d
2,000 "B" Shares of £1 each t r a n s f e r a s u a e q u a l
t o t h e nominal amount of t h e s h a r e s redeemed t o
t h e C a p i t a l Redemption Reserve Fund and t h e
p r o v i s i o n s of t h e Companies Act, 1963 s h a l l a p p l y
a s i f t h e C a p i t a l Redemption Reserve Fund were
p a i d up s h a r e c a p i t a l of t h e Purchaser ( s a v e a s
modified by S e c t i o n 208, Companies Act, 1990) and
t h e amount of. t h e P u r c h a s e r ' s i s s u e d s h a r e
c a p i t a l s h a l l be reduced by t h e nominal v a l u e of
t h e s h a r e s redeemed.
6. (1) T h i s Agreement; . s h a l l be b i n d i n g upon t h e
s u c c e s s o r s of t h e Vendor b u t s h a l l n o t be
assignable.
,
(2) This Agreement constitutes the whole
agreement between, t h e p a r t i e s h e r e t o and no
v a r i a t i o n t h e r e o f s h a l l be e f f e c t i v e u n l e s s
made i n w r i t i n g .
(3) This Agreement s h a l l be governed by and
c o n s t r u e d i n accordance with t h e laws of t h e
Republic of I r e l a n d .
AS WITNESS t h i s Agreement h a s been s i g n e d by o r on

b e h a l f of t h e ' p a r t i e s h e r e t o t h e day and y e a r f i r s t
before w r i t t e n
Signed by
For and on b e h a l f of •
C o l l e g e T r u s t e e s Limited
i n the presence d e -
s i g n e d by
For and on b e h a l f of uJIl
Clayton Love D i s t r i b u t i o n Limited
in the presence o f : -
H'C^YTOH m
Jit
t
Atubacher Limited
Pleasereplyto: P.O. Box M7| Onad Cayman, Caynaa lalanda, British W«at Indies
42 FluwfllUm Square, Tetepboae: (S09) 949-S6J3 Telex: CP <303
Dublin 2. FlCaimiI«(309) 94*7946 (SM)949-3Z67
Tel: 765144/763065
Fax: 612035
36th July, T992.

Ronan Redmond, B s q . r '
Corporate Services,
IriSh I n t e r c o n t i m a n t e l Bank L i m i t o d f
91 Merrion Square',
DOBLIM 2«
I •:.?..
S^-vV.
Dear R o n a n , SS&V'
would you please arrange to transfer the sum of XR£750,000 to:
•
. The Ulster Bank Ltd.,

Dorset Street*
Dublin I*. *
for Account of Clayton L o v e Distribution Ltd.
Account MO. 29627133..
It is essential that the funds be in the Ulster Bank value
tomorrow 31st July.
The Sterling cost uhuuld be debited to Ansbacher Limited
Account Ho.02/01067/61.. .
Please fax confirmation end indicate Sterling ebited.
•
Many thanks,
Yours sincerely, . -
' ;
J.D. Trfyaor. ffi ^
flehit j<
*
• *»S
JDT/AJW
4
— ^^wSww.Mowaco AwaowmaattAHo
.C/O'CWOKATE stRvices"
t, i Hi sv !! p tr-" 0*: 3
• ' J* i >'j
i
wan*.«o«37SJ. ?; •ix"? >,:..:. j . ' riV r •* 1 * ' \ | . "''A
i STAT5MENT-ii{v TRusr ::coftpA.Nyu«iTEi> . ,5..?.

'
T
«. J^'HUSH WTERCCMIIKSMTAI. BAMX LTD. .;
V S c a n •
.-•" . •' ',' c/o CORI'6WAT£ SERVICES - T .. i*;;
, •;• i ;.Ait:ll *I« » KtonoND.
KtnnONO. ••• , J33TI
r.^Jsaac (ODTCJOM
' • 'A/C: 02/U1087/81 .
" |Y;': OEP CL OEM NOLI "EL :rir;rjjNTOATa:
'. :. • page 'to:
VAUJf •7 " S i E t ^ ^ f 1
Mil PIBIT C \:t
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I B I U I W I L D E P O S I T c/n•MIWB' 1
, \.f, i/'J 05.177.3 , ;?••: 31JUi.^
OVtTOMAWN BALANOS AM MAM

M TMt IVtNT W ouowa PUAK WNTI
TO OUR WTWNAW AUOtT DEPMTMINT. nMNDMMM«lM*Ml«
. * • « • * » da Ml aHNMsnOiteaM
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8TATEMENT rilJST C'.-l'S'flliY LIMITED /ntn Qh «MtatoS(«m
STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT
ANSBACHER LIMITED
P.O. Box B8877 Grand Cayman British West Indies
Telephone No. 8—4663/4
Ansbacher Limited Telex CP 305 Cable Address Guinness
Cayman
iS/9
J ACCOUNT NUMBER 80024123

BALANCES SHOWN ARE IN:
f A Q E • 24
sterling
atiipssi
FORWARD 0.00
no/ 9/9*2 490033.25
0/0 y. :»0/ 9/92 FROM S 10600.68
a/<t'z 30/ 9/92 FROM S7 703500.00
y/92 30/ 9/92 INT ADJ 738.70
n/o'j 30/ 9/92 PUKCHASE DM 1203395.23
1
1.U/'i '£ 0.00
CARRIED FORWARD
Appendix XV (93) (1) (g)
V , I
f \
Hamilton Ross Co. Limited

Pleasereplyto: P.O. Box, XK7. Grand Cayman, Caymw hl*ft<J», British West Indies
42 HtzwOUam Square, Telephone: (H09) 94946M Telex CP 43
Dublin 2. Facsimile;. (SQ9) 949-7946, K09) 949-3267
Tel: 6765144/6763065
Fax: 6612035
27th July, 1993.
Ronon Bndabnd, Esq.*
Corporate Services,
Irish Xnbercont.1 nental Dank Limited*
91 Nerrion Square,
DUBLIN 2 .
Dear Ronan,
Would you please ctrr«tutje to transfer .the sum of Stg.Cl.3m. to
Ulster Dank Limited u at rf w
N
• , .
Dorset Street Branch ' •
Dra-nch Codes 98-50-90
for credit to: Account No.29627133
Account. Nome: Clayton Love Distribution Ltd.
It Is. important that th«r funds be with the Ulster Bank valuex
Thursday 29th July. ft. t iff * jl Wit
Would you please arrange to'debiL Hamilton Rosa Account ___
No.02/01354/81.
Please confirm in due oourac.*.
Youra sincerely,
.»»— *- ••• .. -
J.D. Travnor- L^SCÊD
JDT/AJW
S e n t by f a x - 5 r T g T ! f t i l ^ t 0 ^ f 6 l l b w " b y ~ h a n d ; 7
BUSHINTBRCCNnNHNTAI. &MOCLTD
t/U LUWUKAIt StSH»l».B» ttMHdNSV*
SIAIfcMfcNI DabfcS
ATT* MR R HEDHOKD ibkihwsomww
tkta 333a :
A/C» «/0l334/«l (01)189034
6BP
DEP CU DEN HOH RES crAiwwrsATu 27JUL93
PASE NO* 1041
BROW— • 22JUL93
P2JUL93 M CVH 444117 22JUL93
rx CJ* 444129 24JUL93
24JM.93 PX CVH 444134 24JUL93
(N 132731 WITHDRAWAL 24JUL93
RENEWAL DEPOSIT C/H 120827 24JUL93
RENEWAL DEPOSIT C/H » » « ' .
H I M IIITIIIIIII I 2SJUL93
2«JUL93 CM 132191 WITHDRAWAL
MIMKMrWC
5" ' •
•5'.' es 1
! ill
r"; is
I I «r irt I s
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u
5
m . I 35=
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Appendix XV (93) (l)(k)
- 6 > < M
Ansbacher limited
PLC Mtrchant tanking Group
887, Quart CiytBsn, IdlUt Wut Inrthn

Please reply to: Rmoac (KB) 94MCS/4
42 FitzvnDIiam TUne CP 4303
Rue (109) 949-1946
Dublin 2. (809) 949-0267
Tel: 765144/763065
Fax: 612035
ecember, 1990'.-
M. David Humphries, E s q . ,
S e n i o r Manager t- O p e r a t i o n s ,
G u i n n e s s A Mahon L i m i t e d ,
17 C o l l e g e G r e e n ,
DOBLIN 2 .
Dear D a v i d ,
Could you p l e a s e arranger t o l e t ma h a v e f o r c o l l e c t i o n
a S t e r l i n g D r a f t f o r Sfc#.£45.00 and d e b i t t h e c o s t t o
Ansbacher L i m i t e d Accddnt Kfo. 13154602." The D r a f t s h o u l d b e
p a y a b l e t o Clark-wood f o l d i n g s .
Tours s i n c e r e l y ,
4 F
J.Dfc T r a v n o r
SUITABLY SECURED - ALL REFERENCES
30thJUNE1972 -Management Report

£'000
31 it October 1974- Management Report

IcfiQrtazn Marketing Ltd.
1976 - Credit Committee Minutes
t
80-" JSC./.
Ice Cram M o k e t t o s Ltd.
•
Hamilton Muss Co. Limited

Hmiit^yio! P.aBcx8^,&airfayaa«uOqmahbmKBii^ WtsIzxSe
Tekptwne: (S09) 9494635 Tekx CP 4305
Mbfel ftetaBe (109) 949-7944. <I09> 949-3267
%L*C78514«6763C65
Fix: 6612035
16th February, 1994.
nontax Redacmd,Bsq.«
Corporate Services, .. .
Irish Intercontinental Bank Limited
91 Merrion Square,
* . -5 ••
Dear Sonah,
We recently lodged with you an Irish
requested you to have converted to Ster3yaVsndj*&fCi6ge the
proceeds to Basil ton Boss Account R o . 0 2 M 3 S 7 | j ^ r This yon
did and according to your advice note therjJ&sSCfs amounted to
Stg.SI ,700,178.75. We would now be grateful if you could
arrange to transfer this amount of Sterling less the coat* and
charges involved to: —
Allied Irish Banks (C.I.) Ltd
A.I.Bk H p U » < j u b
jersey
Channel Islands
f < & * i t .to.. Contracts Ltd. '
The funds should of course coee out of Hamilton Ross Account

No.02/01354/81 and it would be appreciated if you could advise
the actual amount transferred in due course.
Yours sincerely,
2aa65g
H -
For HAMILTON ROSS CO. LIHITBD
q VRV
I8/84/B1 15:16:21 -> 2833929 Page 826
MoHtlft
We hereby Certify that the within

Profit and Loss Account, Balance
Sheet, Report of the Auditors, Report
of the Directors, are true copies of the
documents laid before theAnnual
General Meeting of the Company
held on the <y Hay of 1996.
Deioitte & Touche,

Chartered Accountants,
Deioitte & Touche House,
Earlsfort Terrace,
Dublin 2. 1 56
Appendix XV (93) (1) (n)
3 ^ 4 / 8 1 15:17:34 -> 2833929 Page 827
.. .MFBbS
ICE CREAM MARKETING LIMITED
REPORTS AND FINANCIAL STATEMENTS

FOR THE 14 MONTHS ENDED 31 JULY 1995
CONTENTS
PAGE
... DIRECTORS AND OTHER INFORMATION

wy.
'REPORT OF TOE DIRECTORS 3-4
STATEMENT OF DIRECTORS' RESPONSIBILITIES
REPORT OF THE AUDITORS
STATEMENT OF ACCOUNTING POLICIES 7
PROFIT AND LOSS ACCOUNT 8
BALANCE SHEET 9
©
NOTES TO TOE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS 10-11
3^4/81 15:17:47 -> 2833929 Page 82S
_ JS"^ ice CREAM MARKETING LIMITED

DIRECTORS AND OTHER INFORMATION
DIRECTORS I Mulhern
J.T. Johnston
> SECRETARY AND IT. Johnston,

REGISTERED OFFICE Ddoitte & Touche House,
' Eartefort Terrace,
Dublin 2.
AUDITORS Debtee & Touche,

Chartered Accountants.
Deloitte & Touche House,
Earlsfort Terrace,
Dublin 2.
BANKERS Bank of Ireland,

Inchicore,
Dublin 8.
f\
30/ u4/81 15:18:53 -> Z8339Z9 Page B32
Deloitte &
louche Chartarad Accountants Datoitta Si Toucha Houss
EartcfortTarraca
Dublin 2
Telephone: (OM 47S 4433
PacsMla: »0D 475 6622
REPORT OF THE AUDITORS
TO THE MEMBERS OF ICE CREAM MARKETING LIMITED
We have audited thefinancial statements on pages 7 to 11 which have been prepared under the accounting
policies set out on page 7.
^ Respective responsibilities of directors and auditors

As described on page 5 the company's directors are responsiblefor the preparation of financial statements. It is
V^'Sur responsibility to farm an independent opinion, based on our audit, on those statements and to report our
[A opinion to you.
Basis of opinion
We conducted our audit in accordance with Auditing Standards issued by the Auditing Practices Board. An
audit includes examination, on a test basis, of evidence relevant to die amounts and disclosures in the financial
statements. It also includes an assessment of the significant estimates and judgements made by the directors in
die preparation of thefinancial statements, and of whether the accounting policies are appropriate to the
company's circumstances, consistently applied and adequately disclosed.
We planned and performed our audit so as to obtain all die information and explanations which we considered
necessary in order to provide us with sufficient evidencetogive reasonable assurance that die financial
statements arefree from material misstatement; whether caused byfraud or other irregularity or error. In
forming our opinion we also evaluated the overall adequacy of the presentation of information in the financial
statements.'
"""" • Opinion .
• In our opinion thefinancial statements give a true and fair view of the state of the company's affairs as at 31
July 1995 and of itstossfor the period then ended and have been properly prepared in accordance with die
Companies Acts, 1963 to 1990.
We have obtained all the information and explanations we consider necessaryfor the purposes of our audit In
our opinion proper books of account have been kept by Hie company. Thefinancial statements are in
agreement with the books of account
In our opinion the infbimatiQn given in the Report of the Directors on "pages 3 to 4 is consistent with die
financial statements.
The balance sheet of the company, on page 9 shows and excess of liabilities over assets and, in our opinion, on
that basis there did exist at 31 July 1995 afinancial situation which, under Section 40(1) of die Companies
(Amendment) Act, 1983, would require die convening of an extraordinary general meeting of the company.
Deloitte & Touche

Chartered Accountants and
Registered Auditors 27 February 1996
38, .4/01 15:19:27 -> 2833929 Page B33
a.
• uui
©
STATEMENT OF ACCOUNTING POLICIES
ACCOUNTING CONVENTION
^ Thefinancial statements have been prepared on the basis of the historical cost convention. ..
ft)
' " ) BASIS OF ACCOUNTING
Thefinancial statements have been prepared on die going concern basis but in the event of the curtailment or
cessation of existing operations in theforeseeable future no material adjustment would be necessary.
sTWfll 15:19:48 -> 2833929 Page 834
MoflhJ
gmgm
PROFIT AND LOSS ACCOUNT
14 months 12 months
Notes to 31 July 1995 to 31 May 1994
IR£ IR£
Gross profit 1,615 735
Distribution costs (832) (180)
^•^•Administrative expenses (29,451) <1,916)
;OPERATING LOSS (28,668) luiii)
Other income 5,250 5,250

r
Interest receivable 769 417
(LOSSyPROFIT ON ORDINARY ACTrVTTIES

BEFORE TAXATION 1 (22,649) 4,306
Taxation 2 (304) (212)
(LOSSyPROFIT ON ORDINARY ACTIVITIES

AFTER TAXATION (22,953) 4,094
; Balance at beginning of period (26,538) (30,632)
Balance at end of period (49,491) (26,538)
There are no recognised gains or lossesfor the currentfinancial year and precedingfinancial year other than as
stated in the profit and loss account The operating loss derives solely-from continuing operations.
Thefinancial statements were approved by the Board of Directors on 27 February 1996 and signed on its
behalf by:
J. Mulhern
DIRECTORS
J.T. Johnston
SCA/U 15:19:58 -> 2833929 Page 835
b ICE CREAM MARKETING LIMITED
BALANCE SHEET AS AT 31 JULY 199S
Notes 31 July 1995 31 May 1994

Ri QUE
CURRENT ASSETS
Debtors 14,110 33,674
Cash at bank and in hand 26,633 23,032
40,743 56,706
)
' CREDITORS (Amounts falling due within
one year) (10,744) (3.754)
NET CURRENT ASSETS 29,999 52,952
CREDITORS (Amountsfelling due after

more than one year) (79,488) (79,488)
NET LIABILITIES (49,489) (26,536)
FINANCED B Y ;
CAPITAL AND RESERVES
Called-up share capital 2 2
Profit and loss account (49,491) (26,538)
(49,489) (26,536)
Tliefinancial statements were approved by the Board of Directors on 27 February 1996 and signed on its
behalf by:
J. Mulhem
DIRECTORS
J.T. Johnston
3 ^ 4 / 8 1 15:17:59 -> 2B33929 Page B29
&
REPORT OF THE DIRECTORS
The directors present their annual report and die auditedfinancial statementsfor the 14 months ended 31 July
1995.
ACTIVITIES
The company's activities consist of the distribution of ice cream.
REVIEW OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE BUSINESS
The resultsfor the period are detailed on page 8 and are summarised below:
t. •
i •
. . . 14 months 12 months
) to3Uulyi$9S to31 May 1994
IRi IRi
(Loss)/proflt on ordinary activities before taxation (22,649) 4,306 •
Taxation (304) (212)
(LossVprofit on ordinaiy activities after taxation (22,953) 4,094
There are no changes or proposed changes in the nature of the business.
DIRECTORS
The present (firectors are listed on page 2.,
DIRECTORS' AND SECRETARY'S INTEREST IN SHARES
rr^None of the directors or secretary had an interest in the share of the company at die end of the period
The directors and secretary had thefollowing interest in the shares of Clayton Love Distribution Limited, the
holding company, at the end of the period.
DIRECTORS No of Shares
31/7/1995
Mr. J. Mulhern 5,499

Mr. J.T. Johnston *
SECRETARY
Mr. J.T. Johnston 1
The directors and secretary have no interest in the "B" ordinaiy share capital of Clayton Love Distribution
Limited. The directors who held office at 31 July 1993 had the following' interest in the issued share capitcd of
ill* enmnflnv at the beainnina of the financial period. .'
3 ^ 4 / 8 1 15:18:21 -> 2833929 page b30
MMi
Tmriw
& ICE CREAM MARKETING LIMITED
REPORT OF THE DIRECTORS
DIRECTORS' AND SECRETARY'S INTEREST IN SHARES (CONTINUED)
DIRECTORS No of Shares
31/7/1995
2
Mr. J. Mulhem
Mr. J.T. Johnston
^SECRETARY
J.T. Johnston
AUDITORS
The auditors, Deioitte & Touche, Chartered Accountants, continue in office in accordance with Section 160(2)
of the Companies Act 1963.
Signed on behalf of the Board:
J. Mulhem )
) DIRECTORS
J.T. Johnston )
27 February 1996
3f"Wai IS:IB:34 -> 2833929 Page 831
6 ICE CREAM MARKETING LIMITED
STATEMENT OF DIRECTORS' RESPONSIBILITIES
Company law requires the directors topreparefinancial statementsfor eachfinancial period which give a true
arid fair view of the state of aSairs of the company and ofthe profit or loss of the companyfor that period. In
preparing thosefinancial statements, the directors are required to
select suitable accounting policies and then apply them consistently;

U J
)
make judgements and estimates that are reasonable and prudent;
prepare thefinancial statements oh die going concern basis unless it is inappropriate to

presume that die company will continue in business.
The directors are responsible for keeping proper books of account which disclose with reasonable accuracy at
any time thefinancial position ofthe company and to enable them to ensure that thefinancial statements
comply with the Companies Acts, 1963 to 1990. They are also responsiblefor safeguarding the assets ofthe
company and hencefor taking reasonable stepsfor the prevention and detection of fraud and other
irregularities.
3lP4/01 15:28:14 -> 2833929 p a g e 836
n.,1.111,. •
• ;- « » tCE CREAM MARKETING LIMITED
NOTES TO THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS

1. BASIS OF ACCOUNTING
The holding company, Clayton Love Distribution Limited, willfor theforeseeable fixture provide such
financial support as may be necessary to enable the companytocontinue trading and to meet its
liabilities as theyfell due.
Given this ongoingfinancial support by the holding company,fee directors have adopted the going
concern basis in die presentation of thesefinancial statements.
.-•-v
PROFIT ON ORDINARY ACTIVITIES 1995 1994

BEFORE TAXATION TR£ IR£
This is stated after charging:

Auditors' remuneration 562 875
3. TAXATION 1995 1994

IR£ IRE
Corporatioti tax based on profit for die year 304 168

Adjustmenttoprior year tax provision 44,
© "304 ~212
A corporation tax charge arises on deposit interest receivable.
DEBTORS 1995 1994

IRE IRi
468
Trade debtors -
Prepayments 365 5,448
Amount dueftom connected company - 27,758
Amount duefrom group company 13,745
14,110 33,674
3 ^ 4 / 8 1 15:28:33 -> 2833929 Page 037
, Drioatai
• —IFFI^ I C E CREAM MARKETING LIMITED
NOTES TO THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS (CONTINUED)

CREDITORS (Amounts Ming due within 1995 1994

one year) IRi IRi
Trade creditors 118 354

Amounts due to connected companies 8,033
Taxation and social welfare 2,013 1,279
Accruals 580 2,121
10,744 3,754
The amount due in respect of taxation and social welfare is comprised as follows:
1995 1994
IRE IRi
VAT 1,709 1,111

Corporation tax 304 168
2,013 1,279
CREDITORS (Amounts falling due after more 1995 1994

than one year) IRi IRi
Directors'loan 79,488
Amounts owed to holding company 79,488
79,488 79,488
7. SHARE CAPITAL 1995 1994

IRi TR£
Authorised:
Ordinary shares oflRil each 1,000 1,000
Allotted, called-up and fully paid:
Ordinary shares ofERil each

Appendix XV (93) (1) (o)
t
38/B4/81 18:22:58 2833929 Page B28

1
r
CLAYTON LOVE DISTRIBUTION LIMITED

6
CONSOLIDATED CASH FLOW STATOFFINT
FOR THE YEAR ENDED 31ST JULY 1594
Notes 1994 1993

m IR£
NET CASH INFLOW FROM

OPERATING ACTIVITIES 21 1,175,363 1,549,737
RETURNS ON INVESTMENTS AND

SERVICING OF FINANCE
Interest and rent received 50,333 117,488
/Înterest paid • ......... . .. (92,848) (138,778)
\ '.'..I
LI ; NET CASH OUTFLOW FROM RETURNSON (21,290)
INVESTMENTS AND SERVICING OF FINANCE (42,515)
TAXATION
Corporation tax paid (515,672) (720,250)
Mr ii • i i <i i r.- ••
INVESTING ACTIVITIES
Purchase of tangiblefixed assets (56,755) (117,566)
Sale of tangiblefixed assets 974 21,259
NET CASH OUTFLOW FROM (96,307) ..

• INVESTING ACTIVITIES (55,781)
JNfeW secured loans . • ' ' • ^.2,266,124

Capital repayments 0*92,100) (823,990)
Purchase of own shares (3,217.275)
(681,856) (112,100)
NET CASH OUTFLOW FROM FINANCING
DECREASE IN CASH AND (112,100)
CASH EQUIVALENTS 22 (681,856)
Appendix XV (93) (1) (p)
OurRef: C/M15/FG
Your Ref: DOD/SB
2 n d July 2001
Mr Dominic O'Dowd
Reddy Charlton McKnight Solicitors
12 Fitzwilliam Place
Dublin 2
STRICTLY PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL - ADDRESSEE ONLY
Re: Your Client Mr John Mulhern
Dear Mr O'Dowd
The Inspectors have asked me to write to you as a reminder of the outstanding items,
which your client is required to furnish to the Inspectors arising out of his interview with
them on 9* May 2001.
These items specifically include:
• Details on his receipt of £750,000 which he said under oath that he received from
Des Traynor: the date he received it, the date it was repaid and the name of the
person or entity to which it was repaid;
• Similar details re withdrawal of £1.3m, as discussed during his interview;
• An explanation of the security backing the "suitably secured" loan to Ice Cream
Marketing Ltd, as discussed during his interview;
• Details on the withdrawal from Ansbacher in favour of Garkwood Holdings, as
discussed during interview;
• Details on the establishment of Debon Arabia Contracts Ltd, specifically whether
he paid for same,
• An explanation of the receipt of Debon Arabia Contracts Ltd of £1.7m from
Hamilton Ross, as discussed during interview;
• Ownership details of the "B" ordinary shares in Clayton Love in 1995;
• The date of Sam Field-Corbett's appointment to the board of Clayton Love;
» 4 •V
• Identification of the 1994 secured loan of £2,266,124 on the balance sheet of

Clayton Love, as discussed during interview.
The Inspectors now require you to furnish said information within 14 days ofthe date of
this letter.
Yours sincerely
ices Gaynor
Seiretary to the Inspectors
Appendix XV (93) (1) (q)
RCMCK ®001
13-"8 "01 16:31 ©
* ^ * v
,\ bt-i"lTCR$ & tUHOPeAMT**C)<MMl* ATTORMSYi 12 riCZVkilliiirr. T>l.ic«

Dublin 2
Tel (01!rth1 fSI.10
fu (01) 6-S V.92
DX 1090:t Fir/wiliura
Email rcmrUi?rcmck.coni
VKib www.rcnick.<."">
OUR nr.r. DOD/SB YOUR. REP:
13 August, 2001
Office Of The Inspectors Appointed By Order Of The High Court To Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited,
Third Floor,
Trident House,
131fl ckrock
Co. Dublin. ^ ^ FAX NO. 283 3929
iV?) •••
RE: Our Client: John Mulhern
Pear Sirs,
We refer to your letter of the 2 n d July as follows:
i. The £750,000 was received on the 29 th July 1992 and it was repaid on or about the 3 rd /4 ,h
November 1992. It was repaid to Irish Intercontinental Bank.
The £1.3 million was borrowed at the end of July 1993 and was repaid by means of another loan
at some time in November 1993.
3. Our clicnt understands and accepts the meaning ofthe term "suitably secure" as explained by
Inspector O'Leary at page 38 of the transcript at his interview. However, our clicnt has no
knowledge of any deposit backing the loon in question. Our client has made enquiries from his
accountants and has also made enquiries into his own affairs from his own company and
reiterates that he is not aware of any deposit made by him or on his behalf to "back" the loan
matters in question. We would also wish to point out that Mr Traynor on many occasions dealt
with on our client's behalf without specific direct reference to our client. As far as our client
was and is concerned he never had an Ansbacher account, or money in a joint one.
4. The Clark-wood Holdings Limited was formed in 1988 as a non-trading company with £2 issued
share capital. The company's sole trade was the purchase of horses and it received loans to
finance those purchases. In November 1990 the issued share capital was increased to £100 with
Partners) OfiUti Curlier. ».». j'ohi McKnight i i..>. R0:un O Sioch«in I • T!.«m«. <S. Mjrwo n.i:. .
fciiil M, Kcsnc «.*.. : : . *.!.'.".!, Domini; 0'Do*«<i n.c.L. F«r|al McK'ui^-.i »-A., tt..«., *.r.M.t.
Solicitors: Diane Rciliv »..••.. I />•>'< I. Doc'mrr i.A. n.l.<.. .<.i.M.A. [<ob<r? WcOwycr O.L I. M.r» «.J.. O A. Mlnmon. *.«.. II.j
CsMalmnU: Geiroidin Ch uUvii u.c U. Ckrimphtt B. Hor.'"!' ()*!« Wimpr N'oti Dunnr
Aootiaie Officci in A:h«:l» Bcirui Bruw«l< f.im. HamburK HtJ'nlci l.i>l)un Landau l.'^cir.l'OarR
Ma:.n» Vilaii New Vo.-i Sicun: l'»rf» ?rajut Roi:s:ajm irl Torcolc (Hritii:) ^'irgir. )>jjr..'i»i Zu i..'.
18:32 © RCMCK © 002
our client, John Mulhem, holding 55 shares and College Trustees'Limited holding 45 shares for
which shares it paid £45. College Trustees Limited held those shares in trust for Debon Arabia
Contracts Limited. This increase in share capital and division of shares was done on the basis
of financial advicefrom Mr Des Traynor so that it was held in the same ratio as Clayton Love
Distribution Limited.
From enquiries our client can confirm that Debon Arabia Contracts Limited was incorporated
on the 25® February 1981. It was a shelf company purchased by Mr Traynor in Jersey. Our
client believes from enquiries that the company was purchased by Mr Traynor as a vehicle for
John Mulhem / Clayton Love Distribution Limited. Our client does not recall paying for it's
establishment but accepts that it was established for his benefit and therefore he lias paid or
should have paid for its establishment.
The price paid by Clayton Love Distribution Limited and County Fair Foods Limited (a
subsidiary of Clayton Love Distribution Limited) for the 4,500 shares was £711 per share as
fixed by Deioitte & Touche as fair value. Clayton Love Distribution Limited paid £1,422,000
to College Trustees Limited for 2,000 shares in Clayton Love Distribution Limited. County
Fair Foods paid £1,777,500 for 2,500 shares to College Trustees Limited. The proceeds of this
second transfer, namely £1.77 million, was passed from College Trustees Limited to Debon
Arabia Contracts Limited. This money was passed to Debon Arabia Contract Limited's bank at
AIB, Channel Islands in Jersey. Our client can confirm (hat he did become the beneficial owner
of the £1.7 million.
The Companies Acts require that the director and secretary's interest in the share capital of the
company and the company's parent company be disclosed in the report of the directors. At the
commencement of the 14 month period ended 31 rt July 1995 the entire share capital (2 shares at
£1 each) of Tee Cream Marketing Limited was held by our client and this fact is disclosed on
page 4 of the report of directors. During that period Ice Cream Marketing Limited became a
wholly owned subsidiary of Clayton Love Distribution Limited and therefore at the end of the
period none of the directors had an interest in the shares of Ice Cream Marketing Limited. As
the company was a subsidiary of Clayton Love Distribution Limited at the end of the period it
was therefore necessary to disclose the directors and secretaries interest in the shares of Clayton
Love Distribution Limited at the end of the period. At that lime, the issued share capital of
Clayton Love Distribution Limited was £8,000 made up of:
1. 5,500 A ordinary shares of £1 held by J.E. Mulhem 5499, J.T. Johnston 1.
2. 2,500 B ordinary shares of £1 held by County Fair Foods Limited.
The report of the directors disclosed the holding of the shares by our client and Mr Johnston and
also disclosed thefeet that none of the directors had an interest in the B ordinary shares. The
shares in County Fair Foods Limited arc wholly owned by Clayton Love Distribution Limited.
Sam Field Corbett was appointed a director of Clayton Love Distribution Limited in July 1983.
Our client has made enquiries from his auditors and it appears that a mistake was made in that
thefigure described as new .secured loans being £2,266,124 should have read "new sccured and
other loans" being made up of new secured loans of £1,225,000 and other loans £1,041,124.
The new secured loan wasfrom National Irish Bank Limited and was the amount drawn down
on foot of an addition facility of £1,700,000 obtained to enable the company to purchase it's
own B shares. The sccured loans were further dealt with in note 12 of thefinancial statements
Tty;«i-rK
« ' *oi 16:33 © RCMCK ©003
whereby it was stated that the balance outstanding at 31" July 1994 was £1,422,900 and at 3 I s 1
July 1993 was £490,000. These amounts are reconciled as follows:
balance at 31/7/1993 £490,000

new secured loans (as above) £1,225,000
capital repayments (292100) as per consolidated cash flow statement
balance at 31/7/1994 £1,422,900.
Yours faithfully,
REDDVCHARLTON McKNl
rr.mc.lc@rcmek.com
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N<>v.*inber, 2001
• 'l
TheOffice of theInspectors Appointed by Order of the High Court to Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited,
:
'li'id h'OX.
Blackrock
o Dublin
FAX NO. 283 3929
FAO. Mary Cummins
HF: Our Client: John Mulhern
Dear Madam,
<'October 2U0I.
our:: [aithfijrfw/
///
• - / /
••fc'.Di>yq h a M / T O N MCKNIGHT,
P-ittMtv. l«cr»tr<i ChArlron b.A. ]oi.r MtKaijH Rmun O $i<Kt>*i»1 B.C.I. Tkniv.i« G M.rrcr, B.C.:..
t\-i.: M Ivi.: .• ' . '...::.. a...:.:. Dominic O'fVwd l.C.l. ^'f' McKn.'ghr *••*.. u.f.. t.r \l..\
So!;,Iwrc ! (-.„>! =- -x , . B„l« MiPwu. n >.. s.t.m.a. D»«»icn A. Mii»m«.. »..>.. -
0%n-.ul<ant>. Ch..i"!t.-.« SAM .. O^K-phcr P. H.^pny Ottkc Mlnigc» Duel*
A-UO.-TC Offta* . I< !,."•' i < . n1 n. 11 H.'!-:«il.. J^.rtrtfo • j.
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:-PY OYiPLTOM r'iCi MIGHT TO 2833929 P. 82- '2?
STATEMENT
2 3 r d N o v e m b e r 2001
We wish to take this opportunity to set out our client's reply to you with
regard to the preliminary conclusions as set out in your letter of the 25th
October 2001. Our client takes no issue in relation to matters set out in the
first paragraph of that letter. Our client does, however, take issue with the
preliminary conclusions set out in that letter.
In relation to matters referred to in the third paragraph of your preliminary

conclusion we would respectfully point out that at our client's meeting with
tne Inspectors he was asked questions about these issues without any prior
notice. You will recall that Mr Mohan S.C. on behalf of our client took
exception to the manner and format of the questioning. It is again reiterated
on his behalf that the interview was in the form of an ambush. It was
explained that any issue on which the Inspectors wished to have detailed
information, or to have documents furnished to them, would have been dealt
with, when our client had an opportunity to check his records. Therefore,
issue that was raised was deait with comprehensively in our letter of the
13th August. It is in this context that our client takes exception to the
^ assertion that his evidence can be called into question when he was not
afforded simple fair procedures.
Our client again confirms that he was not, is not and has ever been a client of
Ansbacher. Our client never had any funds on deposit with Ansbacher nor
any dealings to his knowledge with Ansbacher.
We find it hard to comprehend that the explanations proffered by our client in

respect of the two transactions referred to in the fourth paragraph of your
•preliminary conclusions were, as you described, inadequate and non-existent,
respectively. In respect of the first transaction, namely the transfer of
£750,000, we refer you to our client's evidence and point one of our letter of
the 13th August, m relation to the second transaction, namely the loan of
£1.3 million, we refer to our ciient's evidence and point two of our letter of
the 13th August, In respect of both these transactions you have not sought to
re-interview our client nor seek any other clarification or detail, yet, you are
prepared to form a view which appears to ignore the fact that explanations
have been offered. It is again in this context that our client takes great
exception to the manner in which material was put to him in the interview.
In relation to the Inspectors preliminary conclusions that the loans were

connected to our ciient's offshore interest, we wish to make the following
reply; our client was at the relevant time seeking financial facilities to borrow
money at a time when he did not have the funds available. The inference
that our client was borrowing money which was secured against funds which
he either owned, controlled or had an interest in is completely inaccurate.
Our client did not have such funds available to him either in this country or
offshore. Furthermore, there is absolutely no evidence which would allow the
Inspectors to come to such conclusion. The entire basis on reaching such a
conclusion would appear to be based on the significant details of our letter of
the 13th August, which is used in contrast to his testimony. Again we
reiterate that had our client been afforded either a list of the questions or put
on notice of the areas that the Inspectors were going to deal with, all the
material contained in our letter of the 13U) August could have forwarded to
the Inspectors prior to the interview.
You will recall that you initially required a Narrative Statement dealing
generally with the issues you raised. This was prepared and forwarded to
you. No criticism was made in relation to this statement, instead our client
was called to interview and a series of transactions were put to him without
prior notice, All of these transactions took place many years ago and our
client was clearly at a disadvantage without having his files before him. In
rhis regard we respectfully point out that it appeared that the Inspectors
2001 14: 18 F'piji'i F'EDDY CHARLTON HO" NIGHT TO
2833929 P.04.
ought to trap our client by placing this information before him without an
adequate opportunity to deal with same. In this regard the Inspectors'
conduct lacked the basic principles of fair procedure. This was pointed out by
our Counsel and it is reiterated here. Our client has co-operated at all stages,
and when given the areas in which further clarification was required,
furnished details to you in our letter of the 1.3th August, and it is entirely
inappropriate, given the conduct of the interview and the manner in which it
m s conducted, that, adverse inferences are being drawn in respect of our
client by reason of the information now given in our letter of the 13th August.
Our client again reiterates that he did not have a Jersey trust or deposit at
that time. The Inspectors seem to place significance in the fact that our client
could not explain a charge of £500 in 1974 to the account of Guinness Mahon
Jersey Trust. With the greatest of respect it is suggested that most people
would have difficulty remembering a charge of £500 five years ago let alone
twenty-five years ago.
In relation to the loan to Ice Cream Marketing Limited, this loan was secured
by properties in Dublin, namely 33, Grange Road, Rathfarnham, and
47,Lawrence Avenue, Maynooth. This information has only come to light by
virtue of our client making further enquiries in iight of the allegations made by
you. We enclose copy documentation from Guinness & Mahon Limited for
your attention. In this regard we await confirmation as to whether the
Inspectors had sight of this documentation prior to our client's interview. We
Crust: that, this matter will be further investigated by yourselves before
reaching any final conclusion. It is again reiterated that at no time did our
client have deposit sums held offshore for security or trading purposes.
In relation to the £45 payment on the 7 th December 1990, we respectfully

refer you to paragraph 4 of our letter of the 13th August, and would
respectfully point out that a statement in your preliminary conclusions that
this has not been explained is absolutely inaccurate. Our client has grave
concerns that the inspectors are pre-judging this issue and all issues which
concern and affect him, in light of the fact that a clear explanation on this
issue has been offered, and by virtue of the unfair manner in which our client
has been treated as set out in this letter.
We respectfully point out that during the course of the interview on two
occasions, the Inspectors indicated that they had no interest in any material
or connection that was not related to Ansbacher or Cayman. Our client was
not a client of Ansbacher and did not avail of the services of Ansbacher in the
manner in which it has been suggested. Our client did of course have
dealings with Mr Desmond Traynor and relied upon his services, at the time
and in the manner already set out. We would respectfully suggest that our
client's dealings with Mr Desmond Traynor do not make him a client of
Ansbacher.
E:\8VAnsb»<i*rUotvi MulhercAstatemeot 23.11.01.doc 00D/S9

GUINNESS+MAHON LTD
SANKEBS 17 College Green Dublin 2 P.O. 8ox 55A Telephone: 782444
Our Ref: PO'D/AC 24th F e b r u a r y 19 78,
The Secretary,
Ice C r e a m Marketing L i m i t e d ,
C/G C l a y t o n Love Distribution Limited,
Baanow R o a d ,
Cab-a,
DUBLIN 7.
D e a r Sir,
.further to recent negotiations we w r i t e to c o n f i r m that
we are prepared to m a k e available to you a f a c i l i t y s u b j e c t to
the following terms and conditions;
CD Eorroivtr : Ice Creara M a r k e t i n g Limited.
(2) Amount: £ 8 0 , 0 0 0 . 0 0 (Eighty T h o u s a n d

P o u n d s ) - Irish £ .
(3) Purpose. The funds are being- made available

in the form of s h o r t - t e r m
working Capital.
(4) Tera: In a c c o r d a n c e w i t h n o m a ] ,
b a n k i n g p r a c t i c e all funds
advanced are r e p a y a b l e on
demand but in any case not later
than 1st F e b r u a r y 1 9 S 0 .
; 5) Repayment T h e funds are being; granted

s u b j e c t to r e p a y m e n t s being made
as follows:
£20,000.00 1st August 1978

£20,000.00 1st February 1.9
£20,000.00 1st A u g u s t 1979
£20,000.00 1st F e b r u a r y IS
(6) Drawdown: By way of Loan A c c o u n t in the name

of Ice C r e a m M a r k e t i n g L i m i t e d , on
Cont'd/.
Traynor ' D c j v . v Cha><n.»n». Mju»c<. r. 0 Vtnr, iManaprmj • Citocar*
ti-atl 1 J.
A em^fi a? (Jj-^pu G'OWC.
Hwi-.irY C-OttC- ' McOiqk.ni
N»vE»»CvUV<! P.J 5„ n o. u . J.E.A.R. J. C. l o v a J " ' . . 3 . T O'Conno'
mtinuation Sheet No. 2 24th February 1978
:.e S e c r e t a r y ,
ce Cream Marketing Limited
(8) Security: Continued...

(2) Your S o l i c i t o r s undertaking'
c o n f i r m i n g that the T i t l e D e e d s
of a house at 3 3 , G r a n g e R o a d .
R a t h f a r n h a m w i l l b e held to our
order p e n d i n g lodgement of the
D e e d s by way of E q u i t a b l e D e p o s i t .
(3) We s h a l l c o n t i n u e to hold the

T i t l e D e e d s of 4 7 , L a w r e n c e
A v e n u e , M a y n o o t h as security for
the Loan now b e i n g s a n c t i o n e d .
(4)' We s h a l l r e t a i n a blank t r a n s f e r
duly c o m p l e t e d o v e r the s h a r e s
in C l a y t o n L o v e D i s t r i b u t i o n
Limited.
(5) We s h a l l r e q u i r e the L o a n
g u a r a n t e e d by M r . John Mulhern
and C o n n s b r o o k P r o d u c t i o n s
Limited. In the case of the
G u a r a n t e e c o m p l e t e d by ' C o n n s b r o o k ' ,
we s h a l l r e q u i r e a copy of a
Board R e s o l u t i o n c o n f i r m i n g the
i s s u a n c e of s u c h G u a r a n t e e .
(6) We s h a l l r e q u i r e a form of
A s s i g n m e n t c o m p l e t e d over a
Life p o l i c y in the s u m of
£ 1 0 0 , 0 0 0 . 0 0 in the name of
Mr, John M u l h e r n .
Liauiditv If t h e r e s h a l l b e any increase

v in the cost to us of making: or
Clause: m a i n t a i n i n g t h e L o a n by an a m o u n t
w h i c h we d e e m m a t e r i a l r e s u l t i n g
from any c h a n g e s in the r e s e r v e
or l i q u i d i t y r e q u i r e m e n t s to
w h i c h we may be s u b j e c t e d , then
we s h a l l be e n t i t l e d to call f o r
p a y m e n t of a d d i t i o n a l interest
of such a m o u n t as we shall
c e r t i f y as the a m o u n t required
to c o m p e n s a t e for such increased
cost w i t h e f f e c t f r o m the date
of n o t i f i c a t i o n .
Cont inued.
2833929 P•^8-' 28
? •••• •
a!*?'. Vv- ,
411! F e b r u a r y 19 78.
T
t -v. C4 r
a ..^ r You s h a l l be at l i b e r t y w i t h i n
----- Cluu'-Tt/r - kl
r-'u ' ^"o.iie m o n t h a f t e r s u c h n o t i f i c a t i o n
f f^M:- and w i t h o u t p a y m e n t of any p r e m i u m
; or p e n a l t y to r e p a y the full
• amount of the f a c i l i t y o u t s t a n d i n g
t o g e t h e r with i n t e r e s t a t the
rate applying prior to notification
jt« • • - •
documentatfba of the Loan we enclose:

"Vr". i L -h facility J.'etter f o r s i g n a t u r e by your authorised
-v.' - r e t u r n , . t h e r e b y c o n f i r m i n g a c c e p t a n c e of the
i . the terms asat ianeri. When r e t u r n i n g s a m e kindly
<iav * a B o a r d R e s o l u t i o n a u t h o r i s i n g the b o r r o w i n g .
-''rtT.r! i"— for ,he a u t h o r i s e d s i g n a t o r i e s of
S XSTTjatur^
a /'v P r o d u c t i o . a s Lis:.-! and r e t u r n , in due c o u r s e ,
- » i - t h a coav of a B R e s o l u t i o n as alz*eady o u t l i n e d .
t ti'iu :: l. n e r e l a t i v e G u a r a n t e e has a l r e a d y b e e n
<t j -
IV. .
•/ Mulhern,
•Mandate form f o r c o m p l e t i o n a n d r e t u r n c o v e r i n g t h e o p e r a t i o n
.Banking A c c o u n t .
• look fox-ward t o r e c e i v i n g t h e r e q u i r e m e n t s as set o u t , as

possible a n d .in t h e e v e n t o f y o u r b e i n g u n c e r t a i n r e g a r d i n g
; i ci.x t ar aspecc o f ;l>a f a c i l i t y please let us know.
Y o u r s f a i t h f u 11 y,
for GUIXJtESS + M A H O N LIMITED,
C o n t i n u a t i o n Sheet No. 24th February 197S
The S e c r e t a r y ,
Ice Cream M a r k e t i n g Limited
£
sisw Sr^s?
(6) Drawdown; Continued.. .
completion of the s e c u r i t y
f o r m a l i t i e s as o u t l i n e d .
(7) Interest We p r o p o s e c h a r g i n g interest on

the L o a n at 3 % in excess of
G u i n n e s s + Mahon L i m i t e d * s Base
Rate f l u c t u a t i n g t h e r e w i t h .
The p r e s e n t e f f e c t i v e rate is
t h e r e f o r e 1 2 % p e r annum and we
s h a l l a d v i s e you of any f u t u r e
upward or downward movement in
our Base R a t e , Interest w i l l
be debited to the A c c o u n t on the
31st M a r c h , 3 0 t h June, 30th
S e p t e m b e r and 31st D e c e m b e r
a n n u a l l y and at maturity of
the L o a n . We s h a l l apply to
you i m m e d i a t e l y after the
a f o r e m e n t i o n e d dates for payment
of interest and it is to be
clearly u n d e r s t o o d that we s h a l l
e x p e c t ' t o r e c e i v e payment of
interest w i t h i n fourteen days
after the date on which interest
is d e m a n d e d .
(S) Security; A s s e c u r i t y for the Loan we

shall require:
(1) Your S o l i c i t o r s undertaking

confirming: t h a t the T i t l e Deeds
of the f o l l o w i n g leasehold
p r e m i s e s s h a l l be retained to
our o r d e r :
(a) 92, Churchtown Road.

(b) 42, Main S t r e e t , Rathfarnhnm
(e) 77, F r a n c i s S t r e e t .
(d) B&llsbridge Terrace.
(e) 130, Terenure Road.
(f) 46, North wall.
(g) C o r n e r of T r i n i t y S t r e e t .
In due c o u r s e w e s h a l l require
the T i t l e D e e d s lodged by way
of Equitable Deposit.
Continued.,.
GIAKANI££:
THAT the Seal of the Company b e affixed to a D e e d of G u a r a n t e e

v h e r e b y the Company g u a r a n t e e s the borrowing of £40,000 b y M r .
Jo h a M u l h e r n frcjj C u i t m e s s & M a h o n L i m i t e d .
LOAN FACILITY;
I'MAT the Compan? a-ceut a loan facility in the s u m of £ 8 0 , 0 0 0 , say

E i g h t y Thousand P o u n d s .. from Guinness & M a h o n limited on the terms
ind coiidicicns Scit out. in. the Bank's facility letter of the 1st
M a r c h 19/8 and that M r . John M u l h e m be a u t h o r i s e d to sign a copy
of the s a i d facility letter accepting the loan on b e h a l f of the
Coepauy,
Certified as true and e x a c t .
Secretary
MAW
iatftd this 22nd d a y o f v I 9 7 3 .
C O N N S B K O O K PRODUCTIONS L I M I T E D
EXTRACT
of t h e
r e s o l u t i o n of Directors passed
p u r s u a n t to the A r t i c l e s of
A s s o c i a c i o n on the 7th day of
March 1978.
GUARANTEES:
THAT the Seal of the Company be a f f i x e d to the following

forms of C u a r a n t e e :
No. 1 A Deed of G u a r a n t e e whereby the C o m p a n y g u a r a n t e e s

the b o r r o w i n g of £80,000 by I c e - C r e a m M a r k e t i n g L i m i t e d
f r o m G u i n n e s s & Mahon L i m i t e d .
N o . 2. A D e e d of G u a r a n t e e whereby the C o m p a n y g u a r a n t e e s
the b o r r o w i n g of £40,000 by M r . J o h n M u l h e r n f r o m
Guinness & Mahon Limited.
Certified as true and e x a c t .
Secretary \
XCS-CRSAM M&3K3TING LIMITED
Resolution of Directors passed pursuant to the Articles of

Association of the Coepany on the 7th March 1378.
RESOLVED-.
LOAN FACILITY
TEAT the Company accept a loan facility in the sum of

£<30,000, say Eighty Thousand Pounds, from Guinness &
Mahon Limited on the fceras and conditions set out in the
Bank's facility letter of the 1st March 1978 and that
Mr. John M u l h e m be authorised to sign a copy of the
said facility lettar accepting the loan on behalf of the
Company.
Dated this 7th day c£ March 1978.
Jamas O' Hear a John M u l h e m
CERTIFIED A TRUE COPY

- -i '} -J) jisfsr^
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G u a r a n t e e
By individuals), Partnership or Cornpariy(ies)
T o G u i n n e s s + IVlahon L i m i t e d (hereinafter called "the Bank"

which expression shajf include and extend to their successors and
assigns)
Js'fdwj taking IN C O N S I D E R A T I O N of the Bank making or continuing advances

• Vhere the. giving time for payment or otherwise granting credit or affording
ustomer is in
banking facilities to
mmes of
''r'T..•; Of
• nr/e mime U&J
(hereinafter called "the
-cfs uie Customer")

,a,8f>r.or is
partnership /P 1
7t?« i LiJjtd
imcfe name

Guarantor") HEREBY UNDERTAKES upon demand by the Sank to
^ pay and satisfy to the Bank all moneys which are now or shall at any
time hereafter be due or owing to the Bank on any account and in any
manner whatsoever by the Customer whether as principal or surety
and whether solely or jointly with any other person or persons and to
' discharge on demand all other liabilities certain or contingent incurred
by the Customer or for which he may be liable to the Bank in respect
of acceptance or documentary credits discount facilities currency and
any other transactions howsoever and all liabilities by way of guarantee
or indemnity undertaken to the Bank by the Customer together in all
cases with interest (as well after as before judgement) charges
commissions expenses legal costs and charges pertaining to or
occasioned by this or any other security the Bank may hold for the
aforesaid moneys and liabilities.
PROVIDED ALWAYS that the total amount recoverable from the

Guarantor hereunder shall no? exceed the sum of {
h^frrri j^^Trrm^f.
In addition to
<i) such further sum for interest on that amount or on such less sum
as may be due or owing (and also all Bank charges in respect
thereof) as shall have accrued due or shall-accrue due to the Bank
within six months before and at any time after either the date of
demand by the Bank upon the Guarantor for payment or the date
of the determination of this Guarantee pursuant to any notice of
determination as hereinafter provided and
(ii) all costs and expenses recoverable from the Customer and all
costs and expenses (on a full indemnity basis) arising out of or
in connection with the recovery by the Bank of the moneys due
to the Bank under this Guarantee which the Guarantor hereby
agrees to pay.
2. Interest accruing due to the Bank under (i) above after the date of
/; .-.• nf demand or determination of this Guarantee as herein mentioned shall
• "••iiy HOp'n:$bll} be calculated at
when the terms
•'/,••-•.• iaciiny
a,- ~ .nit n>zintamed
The certificate of an officer of the Bank as to the amount of the said

^ moneys and liabilities shall be conclusive for all purposes.
C-.>rr?inub»fi This Guarantee shall be construed and take effect as a Guarantee of

3. whole of the said moneys and liabilities and untii they shall have
been paid discharged and satisfied (and they shall be deemed to be
due anu owing notwithstanding the bankruptcy insolvency or
liquidation of the Customer) the Guarantor agrees that the Guarantor
shall not take steps to enforce any right or claim against the Customer
in'respect of any moneys paid by the Guarantor to the Bank hereunder
and snail have no right of proof in such bankruptcy insolvency or
liquidation in competition with the Bank notwithstanding any payment
of the whole or part of the sum for which the Guarantor may be liable
nor any other right of a surety discharging his liability A N D if this
security shall from any cause whatsoever cease to be binding upon
the Guarantor or the Guarantor's legal persona! representatives as
hereinafter provided the Bank may without prejudice to its rights
hereunder open a fresh account or accounts and continue any existing
account in the name of the Customer and may appropriate to any such
fresh account any moneys thereafter paid in received or realised for
the credit of the Customer without being under any obligation to apply
the said moneys or any part of them in discharge of any indebtedness
or liability of ths Customer to the Bank and if the Bank shall fail to
open such a fresh account it shall be deemed to have done so with
the erfect that the said moneys shall not operate to reduce the said
indebtedness or liability at the time this Guarantee so ceases to be
binding as a continuing security.
3
' ^rrmnation 4. This Guarantee shall be binding upon the Guarantor and the executors
administrators or other legal personal representatives of the Guarantor
as a continuing security until the expiration of three calendar months
from the time of receipt by the Bank of notice given in writing by the
Guarantor or the Guarantor's said representatives or any of them to
determine the same and shail not be considered as satisfied by any
intermediate payment of the whole or any part of the moneys due or
owing to the Bank by the Customer but shall extend to cover all such
moneys as snail be due or owing or accruing due or owing at the time
at which such determination shall take effect and shall further extend
to cover any cheques, orders for payment, drafts, bills, notes or other
negotiable instruments drawn, made endorsed or accepted by or for
the account of the Customer on the Bank and purporting to be dated
before* the expiration of such notice although not paid or honoured by
the Sank until after such expiration.
Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions regarding termination of this
Guarantee by the Guarantor giving to the Bank three months written
notice, in the case of an advance to the Customer being repayable at a
fixed date no such notice shall take effect until the day next succeeding
the date upon which all the moneys and liabilities hereby secured
should have bean fully paid, discharged and satisfied by the Customer
• in accordance with the terms of this Agreement with the Bank.
Kanferuptcy/ No assurance security or payment which may be avoided under any

enactment relating to bankruptcy or under the provisions of any other
statute affecting the Customer or his affairs and no release settlement
or discharge given or made by the Bank on the faith of any such
assurance security or payment shall prejudice or affect its rights to
recover irom th<s Guarantor to the full extent of this Guarantee including
any moneys which the bank may be compelled by due process of taw
to refund to the Customer in liqudiation or a liquidator pursuant to any
such enactment or statute and any costs payable by the Bank pursuant
to or otherwise incurred in connection with such process. In the event
of the death bankruptcy or liquidation of the Customer the Guarantor's
liability hereunder shall extend to all sums which would at any time
have been owing to the Bank by the Customer if such death had
occurred or such bankruptcy or liquidation had commenced respectively
at the rime when the Bank receives actual notice thereof and
notwithstanding such death bankruptcy or liquidation.
1
6, This Guarantee shall be in addition to and not be prejudiced by any
other Guarantee or security now or hereafter held by the Bank for all
or any part of the moneys and liabilities hereby secured nor shall any
other such security or the liability of any person not a party hereto be
in any way prejudiced by this present security A N D so long as any
moneys are duo or owing hereunder the Bank shall have an immediate
right of set off in respect of all moneys standing to the credit of the
Guarantor with the Bank on any account whatever and a lien over any
securities or other property of the Guarantor held by the Bank whether
for safe custody or otherwise.
7. To the extent that any payment made by the Guarantor hereunder may
be subject to taxes, duties, levies, imports or charges imposed in
respect of sucn payment to any authority of the* Republic of Ireland
or other Country state or other political division by means of deduction
at source, the Guarantor will in such event pay to the Bank such
additional amount as may be necessary to ensure that the Bank
receives the full amount due to it in accordance with the foregoing
provisions of this Guarantee.
?X. The Guarantor has not taken and will not take from the Customer any ^
security whether personal or forming a charge on property of the I
Customer for the moneys and liabilities hereby secured such as might '
on the bankruptcy insolvency or liquidation of the Customer result in
any diminution in or prejudice to the security herein and the Guarantor
UNDERTAKES that any such security now or hereafter held by the
Guarantor shall be held in trust for the Bank and for its benefit in
respect of the obligations of the Guarantor hereunder.
W I T H O U T P R E J U D I C E to this security the Bank may without the

•••
">
-' knowledge or consent of the Guarantor determine reduce or increase
any credit or facility or compound with grant time or other indulgence
to or renew any bills of exchange or notes for the Customer or to or
for any other pyrson whatsoever or deal with exchange release modify
or abstain from perfecting or enforcing any security or other Guarantee
or right which the Bank now has or may hereafter have against the
Customer or any such other person. Without prejudice to the generality
of the foregoing, the Bank shall be at liberty but not bound to resort
for its own benefit to any other means of payment at any time and in
any order the Sank may think fit without thereby diminishing the
liability of the Guarantor and the Bank may enforce this guarantee
either for the payment of the ultimate balance after resorting to other
means of payment or for the balance due at any time notwithstanding
that other means of payment have not been resorted to and in the latter
case without entitling the Guarantor to any benefit from such other
means of payment so long as any monies remain due from the
Customer to the Bank.
Assignment 10. The Bank may at its absolute discretion without the consent of the
Guarantor and without notice to the Guarantor A S S I G N the debt and
liabilities hereby secured and the rights and benefits embodied in this
Guarantee together with any securities of the Guarantor held by the
Bank in support thereof or otherwise to any person or persons firm
committee association or other unincorporated body or to any limited
company or corporation whatsoever and the Guarantor agrees that the
Guarantor and the executors administrators or other legal personal
representatives of the Guarantor shall be bound to any such assignee
in like manner and to the like extent as the Guarantor is bound to the
Bank hereunder.
iuspuaise ^ The Bank is to be at liberty without prejudice to any other rights it

account 11 might have at any time and from time to time to place and keep for
such time as the Bank may think prudent any moneys received
recovered or realised under or by virtue of this Guarantee to or in a
separata or suspense account as the Bank shall think fit without any
intermediate obligation on the Bank's part to apply the same or any
part thereof in or towards the discharge of the moneys due or owing
to tne Bank by the Customer.
Notices 12. ANY D E M A N D made or notice given hereunder shall be deemed to

have been properly made or given if sent by prepaid letter post to the
last address of the Guarantor known to the Bank and shaii be deemed
to have reached the Guarantor in the norma! course of post notwith-
standing that the same be returned undelivered and notwithstanding
the death of the Guarantor.
<ab'?;5ty 13. Whe.-a the Customer h in joint account this Guarantee shall be effective
anci enforceable against the Guarantor notwithstanding the death of
one or more of the joint account holders and when the Customer is a
firm committee association or other unincorporated body or a limited
company or corporation this Guarantee shall be construed and take
effect as s Guarantee of all moneys due or owing by such firm and
even/ member thereof or by such association committee or other
unincorporated body and in such case and in the case of a limited
company or corporation in spite of any defect irregularity or
insufficiency in the borrowing or in the capacity or borrowing powers
of the Customer or in the exercise thereof such moneys shall be
recoverable from the Guarantor as if the Guarantor was the principal
debtor A N D FURTHER this Guarantee shall in the case of a firm be a
Guarantee of 3ft moneys due or owing on any account of all persons
carrying on the business of the said firm notwithstanding any change
in its constitution AND in the case of a limited company the liability of
the company and the security herein shall continue notwithstanding
any absorption amalgamation or other change in the constitution of
the company A N D FURTHER this Guarantee shall be a security for all
moneys due or owing in respect of debentures or debenture stock of
the said company or other corporation of which debentures or
debenture stock the Sank is a holder A N D such of the provisions
hereinbefore contained as shall be primarily and literally applicable to
a single individual Customer shall be construed and take effect in
respect of moneys and liabilities owing or due by such limited
company as identical with or analogous to that construction and effect
which they would have in the case of a single individual customer and
lastly where the Customer is an infant or a person otherwise legally
incapable of contracting or where for whatsoever reason the principal
debt shall be unenforceable the undertaking of the Guarantor herein
shall be construed take effect and embody the full indemnity of the
Guarantor as a direct or primary security. Where the Guarantee is
executed by more than one person the Agreements and obligations on
the part of the Guarantor herein contained shall take effect as joint and
several Agreements and obligations and all references to the Guarantor
shall take effect as references to the said persons or any of them and
none of mem shall be released from liability hereunder by reason of the
Guarantee ceasing to be binding as a continuing security on any other
or others of them and where the Guarantor is a limited company or
corporation this Guarantee shall take effect and be binding on the said
company or corporation notwithstanding and absorption amalgamation
or other change in us constitution.
bo far as may be necessary to give effect to the provisions of this

Guarantee, the Guarantor waives in favour of the Bank all rights which
but for this waiver the Guarantor might exercise or enforce against the
Bank or the Customer.
Jurisdiction 15, The Guarantor agrees that in the event of the Bank taking proceedings
hereunder the Bank may in its absolute discretion bring them in the
Courts of the Republic of Ireland or any other Country which it may
deem suitable and for the purposes of those proceedings the Guarantor
hereby submits to the jurisdiction of the chosen courts and agrees that
any writ notice judgement or other legai process or document relating
to such proceedings may be served on the Guarantor by delivery to or
service on him or his agent in the Republic of Ireland being
or elsewhere as the case may be. This Guarantee shall be construed

and take effect according to the law of the Republic of Ireland in
force at the time any such proceedings are begun.
Definitions 16. In this Guarantee where the context so admits words denoting the
singular number only shall include the plural number also and Vice
versa. Words denoting the masculine gender only shall include the
feminine gender also and words denoting persons only shall include
companies and this Guarantee shall be construed and take effect
accordingly.
JVtvJrcsiina! The Marginal notes are for the purposes of reference only and shell
risotiis 17. not in any manner affect or restrict the interpretation of this Guarantee.
18. This Guarantee is and will remain the property of the Bank.
•SIGNED.. SEALED & DELIVERED '

by the said
In the Presence o f : -
"SIGNED, SEALED & DELIVERED

by the said
In the Presence ot:~
PRESSNT when the C O M M O N SEAL of

was hereunto affixed:-
• •—vj'r.-
... ( t :
I >'
it
tl®^
m :;'d•;•_]) till
•ti -3. afi -n® s
Mil-;
'11 i • 1
llJ-fe'S.'? :
iilSliHfe
-•m'mm-jmm
•y .t. -3 1-... • j: •
••Sl'^Sf-T;,-' s; • ; -—".v r J : f i - r n , • • Mr j »
Si's
t ~ 1
III
1
îlK-.i.-r-i'l'- iSSMmîMSiSMM
Vi
I ki&iii;
> W -IS^r^ t -
i-; rt:
I
i . - 1 - . . . . . . -.. .. - ; -. »i:!..
-- . J.
... . . < * *
:••:•]: I ; ; V 1 fl J i s i •
?:-ji!; ^ i; Si § gi a^Ss ^fc-.giSj.
iiiiiiii?
& a
i.Hi.'mi'j
jUZV;
^mMmm
b u a r a n t e e
By Individual(s). Partnership or Company(ies)
T o G u i n n e s s 4 - M a h o n L i m i t e d (hereinafter called 'the Bark"

which expression shall include and extend to their successors and
assigns)
undertaking 1. IN C O N S I D E R A T I O N of the Bank making or continuing advances

^ - giving time for payment or otherwise granting credit or affordinq
21
u •/to'pri/' is in
•'•'jrtnorsMp banking facilities to
•:•
r-;ntnef$n;->mes of of
t'-oae name . C&f fsJGr Li M r
rns _ Customer")
' n-iyar.ior is
wznenhip JoAW AtUi^H € O.N
•nc: -:rade name —

Guarantor") HEREBY UNDERTAKES upon demand by the Bank to
pay and satisfy to the Bank all moneys which are now or shall at any
time hereafter be due or owing to the Bank on any account and in any
manner whatsoever by the Customer whether as principal or surety
and whether solely or jointly with any other person or persons and to
• discharge on demand all other liabilities certain or contingent incurred
by the Customer or for which he may be liable to the Bank in respect
of acceptance or documentary credits discount facilities currency and
any other transactions howsoever and all liabilities by way of guarantee
or indemnity undertaken to the Bank by the Customer together in all
cases with interest (as well after as before judgement) charges
commissions expenses legal costs and charges pertaining to or
occasioned by this or any other security the Bank may hold for the
aforesaid moneys and liabilities
PROViDED ALWAYS that the total amount recoverable from the

Guarantor hereunder shall riot exceed the sum of .S~ft
^TTT^f.
Fpfiii '-F'iriY :;i-iHPLTON I'ICKNIL.HT TO 2333923
-I •
In addition to
{(} such further sum for interest on that amount or on such less sum
as may be due or owing (and also all Bank charges in respect
thereof) as shall have accrued due or shall accrue due to the Bank
within six months before and at any time arrer either the date of
demand by the Bank upon the Guarantor for payment or the date
of the determination of this Guarantee pursuant to any notice of
determination as hereinafter provided and
(ii) ail costs and expenses recoverable from the Customer and all
costs and expenses (on a full indemnity basis) arising out of or
in connection with the recovery by the Bank of the moneys due
to the Bank under this Guarantee which the Guarantor hereby
agrees to pay.
Interest accruing due to the Bank under (i) above after the date of
demand or determination of this Guarantee as herein mentioned shall
be calculated at
The certificate of an officer of the Bank as to the amount of the said

moneys and liabilities shall be conclusive for all purposes.
This Guarantee shall be construed and take effect as a Guarantee of

the whole of the said moneys and liabilities and until they shali have
been patd discharged and satisfied (and they shall be deemed to be
due and owing notwithstanding the bankruptcy insolvency or
liquidation of the Customer) the Guarantor agrees that the Guarantor
shall not take steps to enforce any right or claim against the Customer
in respect of any moneys paid by the Guarantor to the Bank hereunder
and shall have no right of proof in such bankruptcy insolvency or
liquidation in competition with the Bank notwithstanding any payment
of the whole or part of the sum for which the Guarantor may be liable
nor any other right of a surety discharging his liability A N D if this
security snail from any cause whatsoever cease to be binding upon
the Guarantor or the Guarantor's legal personal representatives as
hereinafter provided the Sank may without prejudice to its rights
hereunder open a fresh account or accounts and continue any existing
account in the name of the Customer and may appropriate to any such
fresh account any moneys thereafter paid in received or realised for
the credit of the; Customer without being under any obligation to apply
the said moneys or any part of them in discharge of any indebtedness
•Mm,
tlr
'••sS&L&^r*
or liability of the Customer to the Bank and if the Bank shall fail to
open such a fresh account it shall be deemed to have done so with
The effect that the said moneys shall not operate to reduce the said
indebtedness or liability at the time this Guarantee so ceases to be
binding as a continuing security.
; m i i nation 4, This Guarantee shai! be binding upon the Guarantor and the executors
administrators or other legal personal representatives of the Guarantor
as a continuing security until the expiration of three calendar months
from the time of receipt by the Bank of notice given in writing by the
Guarantor or the Guarantor's said representatives or any of them to
determine the same and shall not be considered as satisfied by any
intermediate payment of the whole or any part of the moneys due or
owing to the Bank by the Customer but shall extend to cover all such
moneys as shall be due or owing or accruing due or owing at the time
at which such determination snail take effect and shall further extend
an-v to cover any cheques, orders for payment drafts, bills, notes or other
Hf * negotiable instruments drawn, made endorsed or accepted by or for
the account of the Customer on the Bank and purporting to be dated
before the expiration of such notice although not paid or honoured by
the Bank until after such expiration.
Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions regarding termination of this
Guarantee by the Guarantor giving to the Bank three months written
notice, in the case of an advance to the Customer being repayable at a
fixed date no such notice shall take effect until the day next succeeding
the date upon which ail the moneys and liabilities hereby secured
should have been fully paid, discharged and satisfied by the Customer
in accordance with the terms of this Agreement with the Bank.
£ J4 ruptcy/ No assurance security or payment which may be avoided under any

•- Mtj.dHtion enactment relating to bankruptcy or under the provisions of any other
statute affecting the Customer or his affairs and no release settlement
or discharge given or made by the Bank on the faith of any such
assurance security or payment shall prejudice or affect its rights to
recover from the Guarantor to the full extent of this Guarantee including
any moneys which the bank may be compelled by due process of law
to refund to the Customer in liqudiation or a liquidator pursuant to any
such enactment or statute and any costs payable by the Bank pursuant
to or otherwise incurred in connection with such process. In the event
of the death bankruptcy or liquidation of the Customer the Guarantor's
liability hereunder shall extend to all sums which would at any time
have been owing to the Bank by the Customer if such death had
occurred or such bankruptcy or liquidation had commenced respectively
at the time when the Bank receives actual notice thereof and
notwithstanding such death bankruptcy or liquidation.
Off €, This Guarantee shall be in addition to and not be prejudiced by any

other Guarantee or security now or hereafter held by the Bank for all
^ or any part of the moneys and liabilities hereby secured nor shall any
other such security or the liability of any person not a party hereto be
in any way prejudiced by this present security A N D so long as any
moneys are due or owing hereunder the Bank shall have an immediate
right of set off in respect of all moneys standing to the credit of the
Guarantor with the Bank on any account whatever and a lien over any
securities or other property of the Guarantor held by the Bank whether
for safe custody or otherwise.
Oe-<?nc?!c>ns 7. To the extent that any payment made by the Guarantor hereunder may
be subject to taxes, duties, levies, imports or charges imposed in
respect of such payment to any authority of the Republic of Ireland
or other Country state or other political division by means of deduction
at source, the Guarantor will in such event pay to the Bank such
additional amount as may be necessary to ensure that the Bank
receives the full amount due to it in accordance with the foregoing
provisions of this Guarantee.
•• < g. The Guarantor has not taken and will not take from the Customer any
security whether personal or forming a charge on property of the
Customer for the moneys and liabilities hereby secured such as might
oh tht bankruptcy insolvency or liquidation of the Customer result in
any diminution in or prejudice to the security herein and the Guarantor
U N D E R T A K E S that any such security now or hereafter held by the
Guarantor shali be held in trust for the Bank and for its benefit in
respect of the obligations of the Guarantor hereunder.
Discretion W I T H O U T PREJUDICE to this security the Bank may without the

issnfc 9. knowledge cr consent of the Guarantor determine reduce or increase
any credit or facility or compound with grant time or other indulgence
to or renew any bills of exchange or notes for the Customer or to or
for any ether person whatsoever or deal with exchange release modify
or abstain from perfecting or enforcing any security or other Guarantee
or right which the Bank now has or may hereafter have against the
Customer or any such other person. Without prejudice to the generality
of the foregoing, the Bank shall be at liberty but not bound to resort
for its own. benefit to any other means of payment at any time and in
ihF L'-"OM NIGHT i'833929 P. 2b ••
il-ll-J [ L4= 30 FRO F:EDD i
any order the Sank may think fit without thereby diminishing the
inability of the Guarantor and the Bank may enforce this guarantee
either for the payment of the ultimate balance after resorting to other
means of payment or for the balance due at any time notwithstanding
that other means of payment have not.been resorted to and in the latter
case without entitling the Guarantor to any benefit from such other
means of payment so long as any monies remain due from the
Customer to the Bank.
A assignment 10. The Bank may at its absolute discretion without the consent of the
Guarantor and without notice to the Guarantor A S S I G N the debt and
liabilities hereby secured and the rights and benefits embodied in this
Guarantee together with any securities of the Guarantor held by the
Bank in support thereof or otherwise to any person or persons firm
committee association or other unincorporated body or to any limited
company or corporation whatsoever and the Guarantor agrees that the
Guarantor and the executors administrators or other legal personal
representatives of the Guarantor shall be bound to any such assignee
in like mariner and to the like extent as the Guarantor is bound to the
Bank hereunder.
Suspense The 3ank is to be at liberty without prejudice to any other rights it

Account 11. might have at any time and from time to time to place and keep for
such time as the Bank may think prudent any moneys received
recovered or realised under or by virtue of this Guarantee to or in a
separate or suspense account as the Bank shall think fit without any
intermediate obligation on the Bank's part to apply the same or any
part thereof in or towards the discharge of the moneys due or owing
to the Sank by the Customer.
Notices 12. A N Y D E M A N D made or notice given hereunder shall be deemed to

have been properly made or given if sent by prepaid letter post to the
last address of the Guarantor known to the Bank and shall be deemed
to have reached the Guarantor in the normal course of post notwith-
standing that the same be returned undelivered and notwithstanding
the death or the Guarantor.
.s-abiiity 13. Whers the Customer is in joint account this Guarantee shail be effective
and enforceable against the Guarantor notwithstanding the death of
one or more of the joint account holders and when the Customer i's.a
firm committee association or other unincorporated body or a limjtecfc.^
company
V jWSJljr-V*/ or ^-rcorporation
V " Jsr' ' -- > • . this
MHV Guarantee
'-'"••I ' shall beV construed and
— '•TVl'
effect as a Guarantee of all moneys due or owing by such firm

every- m e m b e r thereof or by such association committee or other
unincorporated body and in such case and in the case of a limited
company or corporation in spite of any defect irregularity or
insufficiency in the borrowing or in the capacity or borrowing powers
o f the Customer or in the exercise thereof such moneys shall be
recoverable from the Guarantor as if the Guarantor was the principal
debtor A N D FURTHER this Guarantee shall in the case of a firm be a
Guarantee of all moneys due or owing on any account of all persons
carrying on the business of the said firm notwithstanding any change
in its constitution AMD in the case of a limited company the liability of
the company and the security herein shall continue notwithstanding
any absorption amalgamation or other change in the constitution of
the company A N D FURTHER this Guarantee shall be a security for all
moneys due or owing in respect of debentures or debenture stock of
the said company or other corporation of which debentures or
debenture stock the Bank is a holder A N D such of the provisions
hereinbefore contained as shall be primarily and literally applicable to
a single individual Customer shall be construed and take effect in
respect of moneys and liabilities owing or due by such limited
company as identical with or analogous to that construction and effect
which they would have in the case of a single individual customer and
lastly where the Customer is an infant or a person otherwise legally
incapable of contracting or where for whatsoever reason the principal
debt shali be unenforceable the undertaking of the Guarantor herein
shall be construed take effect and embody the full indemnity of the
Guarantor as a direct or primary security. Where the Guarantee is
executed by "more than one person the Agreements and obligations on
the part of the Guarantor herein contained shall take effect as joint and
several Agreements and obligations and all references to the Guarantor
shali take effect as references to the said persons or any of them and
none of them shall be released from liability hereunder by reason of the
Guarantee ceasing to be binding as a continuing security on any other
or ethers of tham and where the Guarantor is a limited company or
corporation this Guarantee shall take effect and be binding on the said
company or corporation notwithstanding and absorption amalgamation
or other change in its constitution.
So far as may be necessary to give effect to the provisions of this

Guarantee, the Guarantor waives In favour of the Bank all rights which
but for this waiver the Guarantor might exercise or enforce against the
Bank or.the Customer.
2833929 P.28/28
I0U L 14:31 jrfrPCiH P^'DV CHARLTON MO NIGHT
; u r i a d i c t i o n 15. The Guarantor agrees that in the event of the Bank taking proceedings
hereunder the Bank may in its absolute discretion bring them in the
Courts of the Republic of Ireland or any other Country which it may
deem suitable and for the purposes of those proceedings the Guarantor
hereby submits to the jurisdiction of the chosen courts and agrees that
any writ notice judgement or other legal process or document relating
to such proceedings may be served on the Guarantor by delivery to or
service on him or his agent in the Republic of Ireland being
of
or elsewhere as the case may be. This Guarantee shall be construed

and fake effect according" to the law of the Republic of Ireland in
force at the time any such proceedings are begun.
Definitions 16. this Guarantee where the context so admits words denoting the
singular number only shall include the plural number also and Vice
versa. Words denoting the masculine gender only shall include the
feminine gender also and words denoting persons only shall include
companies arid this Guarantee shall be construed and take effect
accordingly.
IVLngmat The Marginal notes are for the purposes of reference only and shall
Motes 17. n o t i n a n y manner affect or restrict the interpretation of this Guarantee.
18. This Guarantee is and will remain the property of the Bank.
SIGNED, SEALED & DELIVERED

by the said
In the Presence o f : -
PRESENT when the COMMON SEAL of

was hereunto affixed:™
TOTAL P.
Appendix XV (94) Mr James Murray, deceased
James Murray.
a) Extract of transcript of evidence of Mr Jack Stakelum dated 8 November

2000.
b) Letter of 18 October 2000 from Inspectors to Mr Jack Stakelum.
c) Letter of 6 November 2000 and enclosure from Mr Stakelum to

Inspectors.
d) Letter of 21 February 2001 and enclosures from Mr Stakelum to

Inspectors.
e) Internal Guinness and Mahon credit committee memo of 25 May 1977.
f) Internal Guinness and Mahon minute of 28 October 1977.

23 147 Q. When did that start?
24 A. I am inclined to believe 1976 but it might have been
25 1977. I would have started on my own in late 1975.
26 I only had one year of operations in 1975.
27 148 Q. Would you tell us what the arrangement in a general
28 way was with Mr. Traynor. How was this service
29 operated?
1 A. If I can take a typical example, a client may have
2 asked me to look after funds that in almost all
3 cases that I am aware of were already abroad.
4 I would have asked Mr. Traynor to advise me where
5 the funds might be transferred to, and then the
6 client would issue instructions when I got the
7 tracking route or account name or code or whatever
8 they might be.
9 149 Q. Could you not be a little bit more specific because
10 . you know these terms, I don't know. Would you mind
11 explaining them to us?
12 A. If the client wished to place the funds with me and
13 they were in some Royal Bank of Scotland in Jersey
14 or wherever.
15 150 Q. This is client's of yours?
16 A. Yes.
17 151 Q. Why would they want to place their funds with you?
18 A. They might be unhappy about monitoring the funds in
19 the sense of what interest rate...(INTERJECTION).
20 152 Q. But you were not a bank?
21 A. No.
22 153 Q. They were asking your advice as to where to put the
23 funds?
24 A. They were asking me whether I could monitor those
25 funds on their behalf.
26 154 Q. Monitor is a word you use; I don't understand it.
27 Your clients have funds and they come into you.
28 What do they ask you to do?
29 A. They would say 'We have funds offshore' wherever
1 they might have been 'Can you look after these funds
1
2 for me.
3 155 Q. "Can you look after these funds." What did that
4 mean?
5 A . Mould you endeavour to get the best interest rate.
6 Would you monitor the funds.
7 156 Q. Take it slowly. Would you endeavour to get the best
8 interest rate. Were they asking you to change
9 where their funds were into some other financial
10 institution?
11 A. I don't think they would come in and say 'We have
12 funds. Will you change them for some other
13 financial institution.' I think a discussion would
14 have arose with them that they would have advised me
15 that they had £X in funds and say 'Can you look
16 after these funds on my behalf.'
17 157 Q. What does that mean?
18 A. It means that they might not want to correspond
19 directly with whatever foreign bank they were using.
20 They might not want to get mail received from
21 foreign banks on the basis of monthly statements.
22 They wouldn't feel that necessarily competent about
23 looking at whether the funds should be placed
24 one month or three months or six months. And that
25 they would like me to look after those factors.
26 158 Q. What did you do then?
27 A. I would probably advise them at some stage that
28 there would be a facility available through
1 159 Q. You then contacted Guinness & Mahon?
2 A. Yes.
3 160 Q. You used the word "facility." What does that mean
4 in this connection?
5 A. It means I would probably have contacted
6 Des Traynor. I would have said *I have a client
7 — for the most part he wouldn't know who my clients
8 were — that wishes to have funds monitored abroad
9 by me.'
10 161 Q. Don't used the word "monitored" because I don't
11 understand what it means. You have a client.
12 What is he to do?
13 A. Des Traynor is to give me an account number, a
14 reference, a bank where the client who would have
15 the funds would have to give instructions to his
16 bank to have the funds moved. Those funds —
17 I don't understand these things either ~ might be
18 moved to a receiving bank.
19 162 Q. This is very important. If you don't understand it,
20 I understand even less. Let us take a typical
21 client with funds in Jersey. You tell Mr. Traynor
22 that this client is dissatisfied. What does
23 Mr. Traynor then do?
24 A. He gives me coded references. I don't remember but
25 it might well be a reference to a bank account in
26 London for so and so, for the account of so and so.
27 163 Q. What was the bank?
28 A. Mr. Costello, I don't remember and I am sure those
29 instructions would have varied over the years.
33
1 164 Q. What was the account, in whose name was the account
2 to be placed?
3 A. I have a difficulty answering that question, not
4 wanting to be uncooperative. All I am saying is
5 that Mr. Traynor would be seeking to get the funds
6 under his control and there is a transfer process.
7 165 Q. You must have known the financial institution in
8 which your clients's funds were going to be placed?
^ 9 A. The only answer I can give to that is I don't recall
10 because over the years they probably used different
11 financial institutions.
12 166 Q. Tell me some of them that were used that
13 Mr. Traynor would have told you about. Give me the
14 names of some of those, Mr. Stakelum?
15 A. It is very difficult under oath, but let us try
16 Guinness & Mahon London for a start. I don't know.
17 But if it was Guinness & Mahon London, it would
18 probably be account of so and so, reference so and
19 so etc. etc.. But I am not absolutely positive of
20 that. It could also vary depending on the currency.
21 If it was dollars it might be something else.
22 167 Q. What other financial institution did he tell you
23 that the money was going to be deposited in?
24 A. I don't know, I just don't know. It would be a
25 once-off instruction. I don't know. It probably
26 would depend on where the funds were coming from
27 too.
28 168 Q. Do your best. I am sure you are under strain,
29 Mr. Stakelum. Tell me the numbers of other
34
f
1 institutions that clients of yours had money

2 deposited as a result of your contact with
3 Mr. Traynor?
4 A. I just cannot answer that. That is not wanting to
5 be uncooperative, I just cannot remember.
6 169 Q. Why can't you remember?
7 A. How do I answer a question of why I cannot remember?
8 170 Q. For example, were any of the funds lodged in any of
9 the Guinness & Mahon subsidiaries in Cayman or in
10 the Channel Islands?
11 A. I don't think so. But I think the funds would be
12 initially lodged somewhere maybe for the account of
13 Guinness Mahon Cayman, reference number so and so,
14 maybe for the account in Guinness & Mahon London for
15 Guinness & Mahon Dublin. I am not too sure.
16 You would get specific instructions.
17 171 Q. It may have been the account of Guinness & Mahon in
18 Dublin or Guinness & Mahon in London. Was this the
19 offshore bank we are talking about, Guinness & Mahon
20 Cayman Trust, the Ansbacher bank. They would have
21 been lodged in its account in Dublin or lodged in
22 its account in London?
23 A. It may well have beien, I don't remember.
24 172 Q. But you are under oath now?
25 A. That's right.
26 173 Q. You are under oath. Can you say that funds your
27 client had asked you in relation to assistance were
28 lodged in an account in the name of Guinness Mahon
29 Cayman Trust in Dublin or in London?
1 A. I cannot remember. I suspect that some of the
2 instructions given at the time would be what was at
3 the best requirements of the Guinness & Mahon bank,
4 what their internal ...(INTERJECTION).
5 174 Q. A few minutes ago you to said to me that you gave
6 Mr. Traynor instructions and that you transferred
7 funds to him and they were transferred offshore, is
8 that not right. Didn't you say that to me a few
9 minutes ago?
10 A. They were probably offshore already. I thought we
11 were talking about a client...(INTERJECTION).
12 175 Q. They were offshore already you think?
13 A. Yes, most of the funds were offshore already.
14 176 Q. All the funds of these clients we are talking about
15 were offshore. Did you ever have clients coming in
16 to you with funds that weren't offshore?
17 A. Yes.
18 177 Q. What would happen then?
O 19 A. At different stages, in the early stages I think
20 Irish pounds could be converted without any problem
21 into Sterling. It is one and the same in the
22 1970's. Then-they could be moved from Sterling.
23 178 Q. Were they put offshore, the funds?
24 A. Yes.
25 179 Q. Where?
26 A. All I know is that with Des Traynor I would have
27 assumed Guinness Mahon Cayman Trust, later
28 Ansbacher. But it could well have been
29 College Trustees or Guinness & Mahon Guernsey.
36
r
1 180 Q. One or the other?

2 A. Yes, I assume one or the other.
3 181 Q. Did any of your clients to your knowledge establish
4 trusts with the assistance of Guinness & Mahon with
5 Mr. Traynor either in the Cayman Islands or in the
6 Channel Islands?
8 182 Q. None of them told you that they had done this?
9 A. No.
10 183 Q. Mr. Traynor didn't tell you that he was going to
11 suggest this to them?
12 A. No.
13 184 Q. You are pretty certain on that or are you doubtful
14 about it?
15 A. I am not aware certainly of any clients that
16 established such trusts. I am not aware of any
17 that did.
18 185 Q. If they didn't establish trusts, you are aware of
19 clients who transferred funds offshore?
^ 20 A. Yes, that's right.
21 186 Q. We will break now for a cup of coffee,
22 Mr. Stakelum, for about ten minutes or so.
23
24 SHORT ADJOORMMKNT
25
26
27
28
29
«
OurRef: C/S10/NM " " • ' '
18* October 2000

Mr. Jack Stakelum
'Yairmont"
BaUyronan Road
Kflpcddcr
Co. WickJow
Strictly Private A Confidential -Addressee Only
DearSir
Irefer toyour letter of 11 October 2000, and I reply on my own behalf, and on behalf of my
colleagues,
*
Mr. Justice Dedan Costdlo and Mr. Paul Rowan.
We now wish to examine you under oath concerning the matters set out in our two letters dated
30 August 2000 and 21 September 2000. To that'cad, I propose that an interview would take
place in our offices at the above address, either on Wednesday 8 or on Thursday 9 November, at
10.00 a.m. Perhaps you would make contact with, our secretary, Ms Frances Gaynor at the above
phone number to confirm cither date, or to make mutually convenient alternative arrangements if
those dates do not suit you.
We note your refusal toprovide us with names of your clients prior to examination. I must point
out to you that you are obliged by law to provide us with the information we have required of
you. In that regard, I refer you to Appendix B of our two letters, which sets out our statutory
powers. You will note that section 10(5) of the Companies Act 1990 imposes a duty upon you to
comply with our requirement, and, in the case of a refusal to do so, m&es provision for the
matter to be dealt with by the High Court
I therefore repeat our requirement that you provide us with the names and addresses of those
clients who you may have advised in relation to trusts in the Cayman or Channel Islands, or in
relation to the transfer of funds to eilher of those islands. We require this information to be
provided in writing prior to the interview. We have noted also your expressed intention to argue
at interview that it would be invidious to disclose the identity of your clients. Once again, I must
point out to you that you are obliged to do so, in compliance with our requirement The interview
is not the proper forum in which to make submissions, and it is not our practice to entertain them.
Yours faithfully
Noreen Mackey B.L.

"FAIRMONT"
JS
JACK STAKELUM BALLYRONAN ROAD
CHARTERED ACCOUNTANT
KILPEDDER
TELEPHONE: 2810646 PAX: 2810645
MOBILE: 0872854660 CO. WICKLOW
The Inspectors
3* Floor
Trident House
Blackrock
usr AO* * J
CO.
6 November, 2000
Dear Sirs,
With reference to your letter of the 18* October, and in partkailar the third
paragraph, I should point out that I did not reflise aa such to provide the information in
question, merely that I should be afforded the opportunity to argue why I should not be
asked to divulge such informatioa The persons in question dealt with me on an
understanding of confidentiality, and as the Inspectors will surely appreciate, it is difficult
not to honour that confidentiality, particularly when one has been used, over one's
professional life, to honouring the confidentiality of Clients.
However, as you point outforcefully in your letter, you are not prepared to aQow
me that opportunity and you have referred to die legal position. In the circumstances, I
attach a list of the names and addresses of the persons in question.
s
r
Yours fkhhfUlly,
Eack
r^
V.A.T. Number 26S4485K

urn' Lbirdt
James Mnrray, Hadley, Coast Road, Momington, Co. Meath (now deceased).
rN
(^WT)
JOHN J. STAKELUM
"Fairmont"
BaUyronan Road,
Kilpedder, Co. Wicklow.
21 February 2001.
The High Court Inspectors, '\»e reft MM

3 r d Floor, '
Trident House,
Blackrock,
Co. Dublin.
Re: Interviews with the Inspectors on 8/11/2000 and 6/12/2000.

Dear Inspectors,
The content In sections 1 and 2 has been written in order to add clarification to the information
given in my Statement dated 22 September 2000.
1. The Consultancy Busiaess I set op in 1975. * »
In December 1975 I decided to set up a business that would provide a general financial
Consultancy service to clients. I bad identified the market need in Haughey Bo land & Company
during my auditing work but more particularly during my receivership, liquidation and financial
restructuring experience. The services I decided tofocus on were:
• Preparation of properly assembled requestsfor financing from banks.

• Preparation of well constructed projected cashflow and profit and loss statements.
• Accompanying clients at meetings with their bankers.
• The presentation of meaningful management accounts and the procedures within businesses
for the timely production of them.
• Being a sounding board for all kinds of operating issues - both problems and perceived
opportunites.
• Guidance on where to go and how to request professional services.
• Helping businesses in difficulty to get back to profitability or to move logically to
receivership or liquidation.
• Actingfor clients in the purchase or sale of businesses.
• Acting in a non-Executive Director capacity when requested to do so.
Those were the principal service headings under which I operated in the name of Business
Enterprises limited from December 1975 until my retirement on the 31 October 1998. This
business was busy, demanding and successful. Typically, it occupied well over 100% of 50-
hour weeks.
2. The service I gavetopersons who wished to holdfends offshore.

Involvement with the savings of clients in any opacity whatsoever was not envisaged in my
original plan. When in due course I agreed to provide a service I required that it be on a
minimalist basis. Towards this my stipulations were:
• Funds would be deposited in licensed banks at rates of interest that would be competitive and
market related. This empowered depositors to be satisfied concerning both safety and
interest rates.
• All decisions in relation to movements in these funds would be conveyed to me directly and
orally by the person concerned;
® I would undertake no advisory or management role in relation to these funds and this fact
was communicated to each person with particular reference to decisions that concerned the
buying or selling of investments.
• I would neither issue"nor obtain.receiptsfor movements in funds. Neither would I keep any
ledger recprds, issue statements or engage in correspondence.
• Information in relation to balances and rates of interest would be provided on an oral basis
only.
• Originally, no charge was envisaged for this service but over time it became necessary to
recover costs on a case by case basis.
My operating procedurefor this service had butfour components:
• A deposit account in G&M that I have described as a hotchpotch account

• A manual memorandum record I kept in my office under my personal control.
• Afloat account in ABB.
• A monthly reconciliation of the sum of the memorandum records with the sum of the
account(s) in G&M and any float balances.
In the interest of completeness perhaps I should add also:
• G&M would be aware of the total funds I had in my hotchpotch account

• O&M would not be aware of the names of the depositors whose funds, in aggregate,
comprised the balance in the hotchpotch account albeit that a name and an amount could
surface as part of another business transaction with the bank, e.g. a back-to-back ban.
• Some of my clients would be aware generally that the fUnds they held offshore were in a
G&M vehicle. Other clients would be aware that their funds were offshore but would have
no awareness or care about the name of the bank in which their money was deposited.
• Only I knew the names in the memorandum account and only I knew the ownership of the
balance in thefloat account kept in ABB.
5. The information requested by Ms. Mackey on the 6 December 2000.
The information requested by Ms. Mackey on 6 December' 2000 is given in the three schedules
that are appendedtothis letter.
Schedule 1 relates to the list of names I sent to the Inspectors on 6 November 2000. All on this
schedule had offshore deposits in G&M through my procedure.
Yours sincerely,
SCHEDULE 1
Name. Offshore Back to Date Deposit Date Deposit Source of Funds Souioe of Funds
Deports Backloen. Opened Closed Offshore Irish Pounds.
James Murray. Yes. Possibly. Late 1070s. a 1987/88. All. None.

James Murray, Esq:
Amount: a £75,000
Purpose: PurcKqw of farni. f
Term: ^ For a period of one year

Rate: 15i% fixed
Drawdown: On completion of documentation
Security: Title Deeds of Farm. (Solicitors undertaking meanwhile).
M « 4 3.A*>;
Recommended • •
Minutes of the 149th Meeting of the Banking/
Credit Committee held at 17 College Green,
Dublin 2, on Friday 28th October, 1977.
PRESENT: J . D. T. - M. E. O'K. - M. J . P. - R. D. C. - GMbC. - P. J . F.

P. O'D. - M. C. K. - BMcL. - 1 . W. K.
FOREIGN EXCHANGE:
The £ standi at 1. r P against the U.S.I
612: James Murray, Esq:

i
Amount: £75,000 r
i
Pbipos^
Purchase of farm
Term:
Repayment of £15,000 at end of October, 1978.
Rat®:
1% over G+M Bom I.e. 10%fixed
Drawdown:
By way of loan In noma of Janes Murray
Security: *
"Suitably Secured" Deeds of farm available as
security. »
Recommended.
613:
Appendix XV (95) Mr William Navan Snr
William Navan Snr.
a) Note of telephone attendance of 3 May 2001.
b) Letter of 19 September 1990 - Ansbacher Limited to Guinness and

Mahon.
Telephone Attendance
Name: Amanda Navan
Date: Wednesday 2 n d May, 2001 at 12.00 noon approx.
Ref: C/NOl/MLC/mf
Ms. Navan telephoned me as a result of my letter of 1 st May which she received

this morning.
She explained to me that her father William J. H. Navan had died on 16th
September, 1990.
She told me that herself and her brother had opened an account in their names,
namely William S. Navan and Amanda Navan in the Northern Bank in
Portadown to deal with their father's funeral expenses. She confirmed that the
account referred to can only be that account in die Northern Bank in their names.
She then explained that her brother had been killed in an accident some ten
months after their father's death.
She told me she has no recollection of this payment and she did not have any
connection with Guinness & Mahon Dublin Limited and Guinness & Mahon
Belfast Limited but that she did have a cousin in Dublin who was not in banking
but in business.
I explained to her that I would have to discuss the information which she had
furnished with the Inspectors and that I would revert to her should they require
any further assistance.
Mary Cummins,
Solicitor to the Inspectors.
Thursday, 3 r d May, 2001.

Ansbacher Limited
A Utmbtr ofthe Htnry AmbacHtr Holding! PLC MtrchvU Banking Group
P.O. Box 8S7, Grand Cayman, McUi Waat Indict

Please reply to: Phone (S09) 949-4653/4
42 Fitzwilliam Square, Telex: CP 4303
Pax: (M9) 949-7946
Dublin 2. 009) 949-5267
Tel: 765144/763065
Fax: 612035
17 College Green,
DUBLIN 2.
Dear David,
Could you please arrange to let me have a draft for
Stg.£5,000.00 payable to Amanda and William Navan and debit
Ansbacher Limited Account No.13154602.
As I would like to have the draft collected tomorrow morning
I am sending a copy of this letter to you by fax and will
have the original of the letter delivered in the morning.
Yours sincerely.
J.D. Traynor

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Record Number: 1999 /163 Cos

THE HIGH COURT

Published by Order of the Court made on 24 June 2002

© Government of Ireland 2002

a) Letter of 19 May 1992 - JD Traynor to Ansbacher Limited.

b) Letter of 14 December 1992 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.

c) Letter of 4 March 1993 - JD Traynor to Susan Sheridan Mack.

d) Letter of 27 January 1994 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.

e) Letter of 1 February 1994 - JD Traynor to Susan Sheridan Mack.

f) Letter of 25 October 1994 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.

g) IIB statement re Hamilton Ross & Co of 31 March 1994.

h) Letter of 10 March 1997 - Hamilton Ross & Co to IIB.

i) Letter of 28 January 2002 - Gibbs & McCurley to Inspectors.

To? . Ansbacher Limitad. F « HO. 001 809 9495267

Attention: Nr. M. bay. P*t«» 19th Hay, 1992.

This Client has telephoned looking for son* fund*. She

5959 Bayviaw Circle South,

14th December, 1992. .

For Hamilton Ross Co. Limited

Mrs Susan Sheridan Mack,

Dear Mrs. Mack

Toura i alncaral , y^ rc! V <

• J: ' '••. •• j; . ; .'-v./'/ v. \tc •'•••••-•" •• i .,-.•••." V-t

Ms.DaireNoin-Ca«idy, 25th October, 1994. •V

Could you please arrange to 1st us h mfor coDecdon threes. Doflard«qw»eac^

MTI OCTAJLS • • • VMM MNT CMCCT grtt/UfCg

GIBBS & MCCURLEY, RA.

His Honour Judge Sean O'Leary

Re: Ms. Susan Sheridan Mack

Dear Sirs and Madams:

Reference is made to your correspondence of December 17, 2001 affording Ms.

Please understand that Ms. Mack is never considered herself a "client" of

If we can be of any further service to you please contact the undersigned.

GIBBS & McCURLEY, P.A.

(Signed in the absence of B. Gray Gibbs to avoid delay)

a) Unsworn statement of Mr Edward Lynam dated 23 June 2000.

b) Letter of 22 June 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Solicitor to the

2. Correspondence received from or on behalf of Ms Mary Maher (nee Lynam).

a) Letter of 21 August 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.

b) Letter of 21 August 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.

c) Letter of 17 September 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.

d) Letter of 26 October 2001 - LK Shields Solicitors to Inspectors.

I, Eddie Lynam, make this statement supplemental to my unsworn Statement of 23rd

I enclose further copy bank statementsfrom Ansbacher (Cayman) Limited. As you

I also enclose herewith further correspondence received by me from Mr Padraig

TlLIPHONB: 333+1 ui gui

22* June, 2001

Re: Onr Client: Edward P. Lynam

Dear Ms. Cummins, a* <m m

We refer to your letter of 12& inst

Our client instructs us to respond to your letter as foHows:-

Regarding paragraphs 1 and 2

26th October, 2001

Re: Our Client: Ms. Mary Maher

Vrtnro fa 1 tl-i-fi 111\/

W& Mh TELEPHONE: 3 5 3 + 1 6 6 1 0866

His Honour Judge Sean O'Leary, O U R REF:

Ms Noreen Mackey B.L., Mr Paul Rowan F.C.A., 1477-001/LKS/EC/010820L3

Re: Our Clients: Mr Bryan Lynam & Ms. Mary Maher

We look forward to hearing from you.

17th September, 2001

re: Mary Maher (nee Lynam)

26th October, 2001

Re: Our Client: Ms. Mary Maher

~ <r • r » 'rTf1'f.Br.^ V11-. •• * — • w!' * •