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to the BTS. Based on these reports BSC takes the decision and orders the
handover(if necessary).
I want to know...
A MS continuously measures the Rxlev of "neighboring" BCCH frequencies and
sends them over SACCH. Now the "neighboring" refers to what?a) Is it the list of those BCCH frequencies which were told to MS by the BTS that
here is the list of your neighbors. And the MS will do the MEASUREMENTS only on
these frequencies/neighbors.
But if above mentioned case is true..then why a HANDOVER FAILURE will occur?
Since a MS will never send a report for a BCCH which is not present in its neighbor
list. Thus the BSC will never order for the handover to that frquency. And if there is
no order there will be no attempt. So how does the question of handover failure
arises?
ANS:
a) yes, the MS measures only the neighbour BCCHs transmitted in the system
information messages SI2 (or SI5 ? i can never remember).
HO Fail can occur if
1- the BCCH(n) is good, then the HO is trigerred,
a) the target TCH is on the BCCH TRX : the RxLev is known to be good, but
RxQual can be poor --> interference. The HO ACCESS can't be heard by the
target, or the reply BTS->MS can't be heard by the MS.
--> interference
--> poor Rx sensitivity of the BCCH TRX
--> hardware problem : TCH can't be allocated on the timeslot, etc...
b) actually the HO COMMAND message from serving cell -> MS contains the
reference of a target "TCH timeslot" that is not on the BCCH TRX. So the MS
will jump onto a TCH, which is not on the BCCH TRX.
--> interference on TCH TRX
--> poor tx power of this TRX
--> poor Rx sensitivity of this TRX
--> hardware problem : TCH can't be allocated on the timeslot, etc...
c) the measured BCCH(n) does not belong to a neighbor defined in OMCR
ANS:
You are right for Handover to be performed the BCCH should be in SI5 List. The
problem occurs if there are two neighbors with that BCCH one is defined in the
serving cell and the other is not defined. then it measures the BCCH and since
the same BCCH is used twice in the vicinity there is chances of it being
interfered.
2nd HO from the second best neighbour C to B as C has B defined in BA list and
B is the best based on leavel and so a PBGT HO will be trigerred.
SCENARIO 2.
A does not have B and C does not have B.
For this case handover shall not be initiated towards B. Worst case lets say a
new site comes on air with ZERO neighbours then it will not take any handover
traffic.
2).
A frequency in the BA list but not in the neigbour list. Let us take the case:
Case 1:
BSC finds that the frequency is a better candidate for handover.
Then BSC checks the neigbour list for the reported BSIC. And BSC doesnot find the said BSIC
in the neighbour list. Hence no handover command message will be sent to MS.
Drawback: You looses a possible good candidate.
Case 2:
BSC finds that the frequency is a better candidate for handover.
Then BSC doesnot performs the neigbour list check.Handover command message will be sent to
MS.
After that BSC performs the neighbour list check and founds that BSIC is not the neighbour. But
until now it is too late. The handover command message has already been sent to MS.
Advantage: The MS attempts HO and fails. You have a easy way to find out the best candidate
which is being missed or a missing neighbour.
So...
Is it possible to configure the HO sequence/settings according to the need.
regards
Note: Practical data is available where it is shown in the TEMS log files that HO fails are due to
missing definations of neighbours.
Hence it is sure that HO command is being given by the BSC inspite of the fact that a BSIC is
not a neighbour.
4).
ha ok, sorry, i didn't see it was a question.
for the example below, the probable cause will be "radio link failure" or "
reversion to old channel".
But as far as i can see, all the handover failure causes on A interface trace are
"abnormal". I think the vendor can put which ever cause he wants, it's not
mandatory to put the cause that corresponds to the problem : the MSC does not
care about the cause of the failure.
note: i'm just talking about A interface.
5).
First at all, I learned this topic as a beginner. In fact I never needed this info so I
forgot the details.
No metter this I'll try to explain in breef the main idea. I hope our colleagues will
help if something missed or wrong.
MS will send access burst over RACH. The MS Tx is synchronized with BTS Rx
( both know that the beginning of the RACH TS number N is moment "t0" ).
The MS wants access and choose to use RACH TS number N. It waits for the
beggining of the RACH TS and in moment "t0" sends the burst.
During the RACH TS number N the BTS receives access burst from unknown MS
but in time "t1".
The BTS knows when beggins RACH TS number N ("t0"). So the BTS computes
the delay of the signal due to the propagation distance.
TA="t1"-"t0".
Then ( via the SACCH associated to the AGCH ) BTS informs the MS for its own
TA.
TA is useful for SDCCH, voice and data communications. But how exactly?
You know, the DL and UL for one connection is during the same frame TS, but not
simultaneous in time. There is a 3 TS period shifting ( this fact could generate
some problems with consecutive TS PS data transmission/reception - other
topic ).
DL F1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 F2 0 1 2 ...
UL F1 X X X 0 1 2 3 4 F2 5 6 7 ...
F1 and F2 measure the DL frame.
Its copy down to show the shift for UL
So, lets say, at moment "t0" the BTS transmits burst to MS1 using F1 TS3.
Exactly at same moment the BTS receives burst from MS2 ( which have F1 TS0 if MS2 present at all).
After 3x0.577ms ("t1") in DL the BTS will transmit a burst to MS3 and will expect
a burst from your MS1 at same time.
MS1 will transmit its burst at moment "t1"-TA. The signal travels some time ( TA )
and arrives exactly at moment "t1".
That's what I think about TA...
I don't know how many clocks have the MS and BTS but I think it's one... and
everything is shifted up or down...
What do you think...?
3).
the way if you do tracing for one MSISDN ,Can you get his TA value .i mean how much the
MS far from BTS ,is that possible ?
to compute the TA. And the first LOS to arrive might be a mixture between different NLOS.
But why do you ask this question ? Maybe there is another question behind, isn't it ?
paraho,
the list sent in SI2 and SI5 are exactly the same. The BTS doesn't choose to send only some
cells in SI2, based on a filter, as you said.
timing advance, traffic load, interference, all this is not measured, whether the MS is in idle or
dedicated mode.
mkt,
i don't find it complex at all, they just decided to give possibility to have "idle" neighbours and
"dedicated" neighbours, there will always be a case when this comes in handy.
point of standard is to be as "evolutive" and non restrictive as possible. They give all
possibilities. Up to the operator to use it or not.
When you look at GPRS, then you see complexity at its highest :)
LAC:
Br\\
Bijoy
Hi Pix,Sheldon,LAC
The MS doesn't know anything about the neighbour's LAC or other parameters neither during
cell reselection or HO.What the MS does is to simply report the neighbour BCCH(if in the cells
BA list) & decoded BSIC alongwith its Rx_Lev(If BSIC is decoded and redecoded) to the BSC.
Br\\
Bijoy
Regards,
SHELDON
SHELDON
17 00 00 03 03 49
Message dump (Hex):
06 1D 80 47 FE 81 3F 7F 80 80
FF FF FF FC 08 15 00 7F
Because these appear in every SI
Please help me on
Atually its a two sector site. the second sector is also 1800 and has the same problem, both
sectors are added as neighbors to each other but not handovers between them.
yes neighbors are defined in the OMCR.
Skip indicator : 0
Protocol discriminator : (6) Radio resources management messages
Message type : 26
Neighbour Cell Description
EXT IND : (1) The information element carries only a part of the BA
BA IND : 1
1024 Range
Channels : 63 64 65 66 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 77 78 79
NCC permitted
NCC permitted values : 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
RACH control parameters
Max retransmission : (2) Maximum 4 retransmissions
Tx-integer : (7) 10 slots used
Cell bar access : (0) Not barred
Call reestablishment : (1) Not allowed
Access control
Emergency Call allowed : (0) All MSs
Barred classes :
BA IND : 1
1024 Range
Channels : 622 624
RACH control parameters
Max retransmission : (2) Maximum 4 retransmissions
Tx-integer : (7) 10 slots used
Cell bar access : (0) Not barred
Call reestablishment : (1) Not allowed
Access control
Emergency Call allowed : (0) All MSs
Barred classes :
rest
spare
SI 5 : one band
SI 5ter: other band
I have drive tested some other DCS only sites, they are not showing this discrepecy and are
working fine.
Can any tell whats the problem? why is the message like this? is there any parameter that
controls this?
Thanks.