Muse Vs.

The Man-Machine
Muse in promotion-mode has been a tested recipe for many years: the three men
are sitting, somewhere in Europe, in three different rooms and the international
press is taken from band member to band member to exchange thoughts with
them for 15 minutes. This is also the case for Drones, album number 7. This time
OOR went to AIR Studios in London an old Church in Hampstead, property of Sir
George Martin to talk to the gentlemen about current business, the new
records concept and, with a headline slot at Pinkpop [Dutch festival] in sight, the
plans for the stage. A triptych with bassist Chris Wolstenholme, drummer Dominic
Howard and singer/guitarist Matthew Bellamy about the impressive Drones.
Chris Wolstenholme
I: Muse are doing something new: instead of continuing with earlier experiments,
youre going back to your past selves. Why the sudden introspection?
C: Ive always had loads of fun with all the experimenting, but now we dare to be
ourselves. Back to the three-piece set-up it all started with, which we have to
thank everything for. Wed forgottenthat a little bit. The past couple years its
been strictly prohibited to even imagine it, but actually already we knew during
the The 2nd Law era that we couldnt go on like that forever. So much work had
gone into that record, so many productions within productions I think weve
expressed all extreme influences on that [record] and that has tempered our
curiosity for now, at least. And somewhere its just as daring to say: till here and
no further. First go back to the core and see what we find there. Not that wed lost
the connection to our own essence, but it was a very thin connection. And look at
the result: a classic Muse-record that is something great in itself and in my
opinion has completely opened our future. We can literally go anywhere with
Drones in our back pocket. Undoubtedly, its a //diving board// - but to where, that
even we dont know.
I: Were you lost in your own hunger for expansion?
C: Not lost searching, yes. It was a quest, sometimes we found something nice,
but we never really found a new base. If wed continued anyway, there wouldve
been a different band sitting here right now. We wouldnt have a been a threepiece anymore, but an electronic establishment with a rock past. Not the band we
actually are. That realisation was very important in this process. The future holds
many opportunities to experiment and look further, but first lets fortify that what
has to work; the band. So lets rock it. Luckily were pretty good at that.
I: Drones contains many references to your own past. We heard Psychos riffas
an outro during the last tour and in other songs there are little familiar nuggets
and references to your history as well. Were these all conscious decisions?
C: A couple were, like the sequence in The Handler that goes directly back to
Showbiz. I feel the ghost of Origin of Symmetry when were playing and whims of
Absolution, too. And then youve got Reapers, which explores a totally different
area than the three-piece format. Ten years ago we couldnt have made that

song. Even if its form and approach isnt new, the craftsmanship has kept
growing on the inside. Ive been thinking for days about whats the best label for
this music and I keep coming back to classic. Not necessarily classic rock, but
classic Muse. And seeing as we are Muse, thats not that big of a problem.
I: What has been Mutt Langes contribution to all this?
C: Yeah, hes one of the most legendary rock producers in the business. The last
few records we did by ourselves, now we couldnt even resist the temptation to
let such a big name work with us. Listen to Back In Black by AC/DC: a band in a
room that makes a record and what a record! We hadnt even finished the
concept before we started working with Mutt. Lyrics and conceptual stuff usually
come after the music anyway. It turned out to be a gold mine to use a clear
storyline, because it adds to the consistency of the album hugely. We havent
made a record like this in ages, where youve got a clear plot, of which you can
hear that its been made by the same group of people at the same time in the
same place. Not everyone will notice, but I can hear a very clear coherence in all
the bass and drum lines throughout the record. It really is a whole. Thats mainly
Mutts contribution, he kept us on the right track.
I: How did you end up in Vancouver?
C: The 2nd Law took long to record and that was partly due to the fact that it was
way too easy to pop in at home for lunch. Dom lives around here [London], Matt;
s got a place here too and Im living just inside Greater London myself nowadays,
Ive left Teignmouth after all those years after all. When youre recording here,
even if its a great studio, youll be distracted way too easily and thats why we
just wanted to work very hard for a couple weeks in a new environment.
Vancouver is ideal for that: it has all the facilities, its a nice city to be in and you
dont get that temptation to lose yourself for an entire month I think weve only
really gone out for a big dinner on one night in that entire time. Completely
focused on work, away from home. And family oh well, when I get to the studio
in the city by car the kids have gone to school already, when I get back from the
session theyll be in bed. Whether youre twenty minutes away or in Vancouver
doesnt matter much then.
I: On The 2nd Law you wrote and even sung a few tracks. It didnt appeal to you to
write more?
C: Oh, definitely. I still write regularly, but for this record it didnt make sense to
put my stuff on. Everything was solid to begin with, the music and the concept
worked well together. Matts really in his comfort zone with this subject, I didnt
think for one moment that I had to add to that. Like youre writing chapter 6 for
someone elses book. So no. Ive got enough ideas lying around, who knows I
might start a solo project sometime, even if those ideas arent waiting to be
worked out. Sometimes friends of mine ask me to make something up by their
request, but I cant do that. Its good like this. Everything in time.
I: Will we see you as a lead singer in the near future?

C: Haha, I dont think Liquid State is on the bill to be played. And you know what?
I hate singing. Really, its not my thing. Liquid State was always in the middle of
the set and every night I would be waiting till it was there. I was dead nervous, till
the very last show. The first couple times I thought itd be alright, but every night
it was a breaking point. Let Matt sing and let me bass, thats what were both the
best at.
Dom Howard
I: You published a photo in September last year: 7 days till album number 7. And
the whole world fell over it.
D: Oh yeah, they even speculated wed present the album the next week, like
weve been seeing with those surprise releases lately. Fans, media, everyone
started yakking. A new Muse record in a week? Bloody hell! But it really was
about the start of recording and nothing else.
I: For most people it was at least the first official sign of life regarding Drones.
Did you even think that with one click you could rouse entire populations from
their slumber?
D: No, not at all. I was in California and had just made an Instagram account. You
know, get with the times. I put up that pic just to test stuff. Took a selfie, put a
caption under it. Does it work. Click, and go. It was crazy, but it reminds you
about what you started.
I: In the picture your hair was still blond, like we know you. Now its pitch-black.
Wow, well spotted. Haha! I dyed it in February. Im used to it by now. The first few
days itd scare the hell out of me every time I caught sight of myself in the
mirror, but I dont think Ill change it anytime soon. Dont look into it too much, it
was an experiment.
I: We didnt recognise you when you came in.
D: A successful experiment.
I: Its always been the question: how will you guys bring the new music to the
stage. That seems to be way easier with Drones than with the last two albums.
D: Musically, definitely. The Resistance and The 2 nd Law were real studio projects
and even if wed stopped being a three-piece on stage, it continued to be an
incredible challenge to take the new things to the stage. I love both of those
albums, but this time around we didnt frustrate ourselves for once. Guys, weve
gone too far, well never get this on stage!
I: So in the past you felt that you went too far?
D: Well, its a bit two-sided. Actually we loved going over the top. The symphony,
Madness, Unsustainable I dont regret anything, let me say that first. Its more
of a clash between the nature of the song and the practical reality. We could go

big, we wanted to go big, so we went big. Or, if youre talking about stylechanging tracks like Undisclosed Desires or Madness, different. And then came
the question: what now? Nice to play this on stage later, we thought of songs like
Reapers and The Handler. Reapers does have a complicated structure, in a
musically technical sense, but its nice to challenge yourself like that. When I look
back on the past two records and their live shows I think: we made it way too
hard for ourselves. Though we did always manage. But its nice to get on stage
without all those troubles for once. Weve been rehearsing for a week and its
been going well. We can play everything now, even integrally. Now we can tell a
story with the album it could be useful to keep that in the future. But oh well, Ill
see how it goes, itll be a great tour.
I: Apart from your music you also have some extreme action on your live resum:
the towers of the The Resistance-tour, the UFO. And later for The 2 nd Law the TVlike theatre in the stadiums with the acrobats and actors.
D: I dont know what were going to do about that. The music is stripped down,
thats where the focus is. Maybe well set up the shows from a more central
thought as well. Now were really focused on the festivals, that wasnt as much of
a circus as our own shows in the past, either. People will expect big things from
us, though, and in that way were a bit like kids in a toy store: if we can do
something cool, then well do it. I dont think we can surpass things like the UFO,
but you shouldnt want to. But the audience will get that. Maybe the theme in
Drones will give us some nice ideas, too, were looking into it in the back of our
heads. Things flying through the room, freaking people out Therell be some
examples of lighting and visual effects, really innovative stuff. But first we want
to get the set right and have a nice warming up at the festivals, then well see.
I: In earlier interviews you regularly talked about the 360 concept. Isnt this an
ideal time for a stage in the middle of the venue?
D: Yeah, its definitely ideal. I can tell you were closer than ever. So close, even,
that when the promoter for our gigs in Mexico next autumn put the tickets on
sale, he put a nice 360 map of the venue on there as well. So the surprise has
been taken off a little.
I: Why havent you tried it before?
D: Yeah, the ideas been lying around for ages. Around the time of The Resistance
there were serious plans but then U2 was one step ahead of us with their 360
spectacle. It wouldve looked very stupid if wed started touring with the same
concept. We exchanged it for those three hydraulic towers for the arena tour.
Even if thats not the same. In sports venues youve got people sitting behind you
anyway sometimes. I like it actually, its just that the show is still directed to
those in front of you. Thats where the attraction is for us. When youre on a
circular, or even a spinning stage, the whole dynamics in the venue change. Matt
and Chris can go anywhere, play every corner and the crowd is everywhere
around you. I only have to take a couple spins behind my drum kit, haha. I think
we could learn a lot from that, its a challenge for us and something new for the

crowd. And, as with everything surrounding Drones, it continues to be a very

central thought. We wont need actors in coffins underneath the stage.
I: Have you seen how Royal Blood do their shows? Two guys, loud noise, a few
lights and they could soon be going to sports venues.
D: Yeah, Ive seen a show of theirs last year. Great live band! Just two of them,
and they make it work! By far the best two-piece Ive ever seen. When we started
we wanted to get the maximum out of minima equipment, and now were back to
that idea again. Even if their point is that they have to forget the guitar and
weve always had and the guitar and the piano. But even then its astonishing to
see how much noise three little men can make on a stage. In that sense, not
much has changed in all those years.
I: This year youll be doing Pinkpop [Dutch festival], does that ring a bell?
D: Of course, its the umpteenth time were performing there. A nice big field,
large and clear, we like that. Pinkpop reminds me of Reading, Lowlands is more
like Glastonbury much smaller, but the same type of spirit. I remember one of
the first times we were at Pinkpop, we went to see System of a Down. Just
ambled over the field to the other stage. We could do that back then, nowadays
they recognise us everywhere.
I: Maybe you could dye your hair another colour
D: Even if I dye it pink, theyll still find me.
Matthew Bellamy
I: As always our opener: what is your favourite conspiracy theory at the moment?
M: Hmm, Ive definitely got one, its more a theory than a conspiracy. And I
basically told the whole thing on the record, I could speculate about it for hours
I: Weve got twenty minutes, so keep it short.
M: Ill talk fast. To start with the conclusion: soon it should be possible to test the
world leaders on their human qualities. And that would bring much good to
mankind. I thought of it myself, after studying lots of different things that control
our society at the moment. Power is the magic word, in English we have the term
the powers that be. Whats behind that? Thats what I was wondering, it
fascinated me. I read a lot about evolutionary psychology, the change in
mankinds thinking in the biggest possible scale, based on Darwin and his natural
selection, the theory of evolution. When you follow that line, you find out that
there is no self-conscious agenda behind it, but something much more terrifying:
a completely psychopathic train of thought. Very clinical, very intelligent as well
thats what makes it so dangerous. Only if you succeed to switch off all human
feelings, especially empathy and emotions, youll be able to use that power over
others.
I: If you dont care about it all then you can do whatever you want?

M: In a nutshell, yeah. And here comes the evolution part, the change, the story
within: in the last century and a half, the relationship between man and machine
has rapidly developed. Efficiency and precision have become important values.
Thinking irrationally is disappearing, its all about the rationality. We think
logically, but emotion doesnt play a part in that anymore. And weve started to
think its natural that people with those qualities have the most important jobs
its supposed to be like that, that has crept into our mindset. Big leaders in
politics, the army, business and even in some religious societies all have that ice
cold, calculating part in them. A lot of them, at least there are a few exceptions.
But over 80% of leaders have switched off all human elements and function in a
highly developed but inhuman level. A fact that is also reflected by our
continuous fascination with technology.
I: Is that a finished, indisputable process or is there a bit of development in it as
well?
M: Well, here it comes: I think theres development in there. Its not an
indisputable fact, there is a solution. Were so in love with technology that we put
those who embody technology onto a pedestal. Were the ones who enable that
psychopathic behaviour, in fact, we dont want anything but constant progress.
The fact that it produces so much violence hasnt prompted anyone to stop with
it. That progress has brought us the internet and now you cant imagine a world
without it. But because every form of human contact physical contact between
two living beings is banned like this, or remote-controlled in the best case, we
remove that whole element of emotion from ourselves. You put a nasty message
on the internet or send a stupid tweet to someone: click, its gone and how would
you know what the consequences are? You can make decisions from a large
distances, without even feeling a thing. The best example of that is the drone.
Someone is in a bunker somewhere with a remote in their hand and causes pure
havoc somewhere thousands of miles away. But you dont see it you dont want
to see it either so you can do it. In that sense, at a macro-level, were all
becoming psychopaths. Were all potential drones. Although the general public is
alright at the moment: facts point out that 2% of all people have psychopathic
elements. But among powerful leaders, that percentage is much higher.
I: What is the solution, where should we all go?
M: The common denominator between all those leaders is that they oppress
people. The army, with its violence, the government that doesnt listen to its
people, the multinational who doesnt have competition anymore we feel
oppressed by those people. And because it doesnt matter to them what we
think, it goes on. If, amongst those leaders, there is a shift to even a little bit of
emotion, empathy, feeling, than mankind will be not save, I dont want to put it
that way, but at least not as condemned as it is now. If someone sees the danger
of the decision he threatens to take, thatll influence the decision. Of that 98% of
us who dont have psychopathic traits, a few must be as intelligent as the big
men now, but who do have some empathy. The good thing is: we can measure
that now. Recently a book came out, The Psychopath Test, in which the writer
developed a scientific method of testing humans. Sensors on your skin and your

head, who read all the reactions to different situations. Anticipation of fear,
stimuli of violence. When a psychopath sees someone else suffer, he doesnt feel
a thing. But if the sensors do go off, there is some feeling there. Were coming
into an era where we can test all the candidates for their humanity. And only
when youre a feeling person, you can get that function in my opinion, at least.
Every president or CEO or general should have some proof of humanity before he
can start.
I: So its our task
M: Yeah, we have to stop giving that kind of people power. Sensor on their head,
test them , and were done. I believe in it. Simple, isnt it?
I: You mentioned, with reservation, the church. Drones opens and closes with a
religious reference. Is that a coincidence?
M: Nothing is a coincidence. Revere a million prayers, draw me into your
holiness, is the first lyrics to the first track, Dead Inside. Thats where the
protagonists journey starts, at the moment hes mentally broken and empty. He
lost his faith. Not that hes religious, but hope and trust are important
cornerstones in every religion and in life itself. Hes lost everything. Confused, to
the bones, he doesnt have any resistance to an authoritarian power who
consumes his being and turns him into an emotionless, ruthless killing machine
a drone. But slowly he reclaims his emotions, in The Handler he sees the light, in
Defector he has also found the strength to escape and in Aftermath he has found
himself due to finding love again.
I: what makes him find that strength in the middle of the record? Suddenly you
sing, on The Handler: leave me alone, I must disassociate from you
M: In that moment, hes experienced very intense things and hes totally
estranged from everything within himself. The last bit that remains, is his soul. Or
call it his will to survive, if you need to. In that hollow shell that last bit of
humanity resonates and begins to make its way back. I dont even know what it is
exactly, Im just speculating. When youre at your worst, at the darkest point
possible, you cant go further down. You touch the bottom and seek the light
again. If you have that humanity inside of you, at least.
I: The light at the end of the tunnel, thats how the title track at the end feels.
Our Prayer meets The Prophets Song, very pastoral, like some heavenly choral
singing. With the word amen as the closing gate of the record.
M: The hope, the trust, the love are back in the protagonists being again. Add
those three together and you have lifes most important values. Ive thought
about that, yeah. And the ecclesiastical side was the most appropriate metaphor
for that: how extremely far every form of religious thinking is from being killed by
a remote-controlled machine. The hope versus the reality. An important theme on
the record.

I: Speaking of metaphors: that protagonist doesnt have an identity, anywhere.

Are you maybe singing about your own your own journey of the past couple
months?
M: The starting point is clear: my relationship [with actress Kate Hudson, together
they have a son] ended and I felt like how I am singing there. I continued thinking
from that feeling, incorporated the Drones-idea and the aforementioned theory
and got into a role like this. Here and there, there are some similarities, but it
isnt necessarily my story. Loosely based on my story, more like. Heavily
dramatised, of course: Ive never been brainwashed by the army. But Im singing
about it anyway. That doesnt have anything to do with me, although both of my
grandfathers have fought in the war and my uncle on my fathers side has been
killed in a bombing by the IRA. He was a high-ranked military man. When I hear
my father talk about his father and his brother, that does have a lot of influence
on me. All of the overarching ideas come from somewhere within my own
experiences, but Im not and I repeat, not a drill sergeant.
I: Sir, no sir! Were you, when you were at the bottom, resistant to the brutal force
of the powers that be?
M: I didnt really encounter those in my personal life, in a moment like that youre
mostly dealing with yourself. In my teens I have been in a situation exactly like
the man on the record. My parents separated when I was about 14 and I didnt
know what to do with my life. I was very vulnerable and out of control, I couldve
gone every which way. Luckily I found the music, we started the band that
became Muse and it got me back on track. Then we got a record deal with
Showbiz. All the bigwigs who told us what to do, where to play, whose hands to
shake The music business wasnt a nice place in the late nineties, they felt our
potential and had an enormous amount of power, it was suffocating. I felt like a
pawn, I wasnt resistant to that pressure. But we conquered that, too, after Origin
of Symmetry the labels power decreased, and we were stronger than ever and
controlled everything. Since then Ive had total control over everything I do.
Disregarding personal setbacks everyones vulnerable to those.
I: Its funny that you address that ruling power with babe on the record. You
got the CIA, babe, and all youve done is brutalise you sing on Reapers.
M: Yeah, youve got a big clue there, haha! My personal story is entwined with the
big theme at moments like that. Lots of things have happened regarding my
relationship, and that surfaces through words like that. The protagonist on the
record wouldnt call the CIA babe, so am I talking to someone myself? Figure it
out yourself. It doesnt have to be about a man and a woman, by the way, Ive
taken multiple interpersonal relationships into that parallel. Humanity has
difficulty with technology, the individual behind the story hasnt had an easy time
either. I thought Id covered it up pretty well, but that babe reveals me after all.
I: Where does the second-to-last track, The Globalist, stand in this story? That
ones actually sung from the perspective of a dictator and quite a successful

one. Has our friend found that much power that hes begun oppressing people
himself?
M: Yes and no. The Globalist is actually a stand-alone track, a sort of sequel to
Citizen Erased on Origin of Symmetry, but in hindsight I realised that a scenario
like that is also a possibility. Regarding its form its a logical ending, regarding its
concept it is too. Im not saying it is, Im just saying its a possibility. Actually its
the same journey the protagonist makes on the rest of the record, but inversed.
I: A small inversed pyramid in the bigger picture?
M: If you like symbols, you could look at it that way, haha! In that sense the
protagonist and the dictator are two different people. They both have exactly the
same starting point theyre void of feeling and emotion, they dont have trust in
humanity anymore but they both dealt with that in very different ways. One
goes along with the power, the other takes the power. The lesson is that the
dictator eventually ruins his world again and remains alone. And Im definitely
not that dictator.