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then be powered by a heavy duty wire capable of carrying the current required of all the
accessories on the block. Be sure to fuse the block at the battery.
Another important thing to consider is how you control the switching on/off of the power
to your accessories. In almost every case where high current is required, the switch you
will use to turn on the power should not handle the load because most switches are not
designed to handle higher amps. The job of switching the power is better left to a relay.
What is a relay? A relay is a device that, through a magnetic induction coil, turns on the
power for you. The switch that is installed in the cab of your 4x4 actually only powers the
relay itself which draws very little current. In most installations a 30 AMP relay from
Radio Shack (Auto Relay Cat. Number 275-226) will do unless your amperage demands
exceed 30 amps. I like to used a lighted switch in the cab to let me know if driving lights
are on.
Click to Enlarge
The method I use for wiring the lights and other external accessories, for the most part,
follows the diagram pictured above. As in the diagram a wire is run from a 12 volt power
source to the switch in the cab and out to the relay placing a fuse at the source of the
power. (Follow the relay's wiring schematic when connecting the wires to the relay) One
of the relays terminals goes to ground. Then run a heavy gauge wire from the battery to
the relay placing a 30 Amp fuse in line very close to the battery. Do not connect the
power to the battery until all wiring is done. Then I run a single heavy gauge wire out to
the lights or other accessory. If installing lights, split it into two leads at the lights. If you
do this be sure the wire is rated to handle BOTH lights since it will carry the current of
both. The diagram shows two leads coming from the relay. Then I run the second wire
of the lights or other accessory to a good ground on the frame of the vehicle. If the wires
will not be soldered together and crimped connectors will be used it's a good idea to put
a dielectric paste on the connectors where they come in contact. This will prevent
corrosion as time passes ensuring a good connection. Then double-checked all wiring
before plugging in the power.
FAQ Home
Version 5.0
Fuse Locations
Relay Locations
Without a good magnetic short detector, the problem would have been difficult to solve
since a relationship between a brake light and ashtray light isnt immediately logical or
clear, to say the least. In other unlikely cases, Ive found an instrument cluster fuse that
also supplies field current to the alternator. The moral is, never rule out the effect of one
circuit upon another...
10. In fact, avoid using test lights altogether. When testing fuses, for example, I use an
LED-type test light (available from a major tool manufacturer) that indicates open or
grounded fuse circuits and voltage availability. This eliminates guesswork and protects
ground-sensitive electronic circuits like air bag sensors.
11. Use a professional DVOM with a min/max voltage feature and alarm to test
intermittent failures. The min/max feature will record the highest voltage reached in the
circuit and sound an alarm each time a higher voltage is reached. For the technician
working alone, this feature is a real time saver, especially when performing a "wiggle" test
on an intermittent wiring problem. In the same sense, lab scopes are particularly useful to
find loose ground connections. During a wiggle or vibration test, loose ground connections
will show up as a voltage spike in an otherwise zero-volt lab scope waveform.
12. Remember how hard it is to find the trim screw driven through a wiring harness hidden
underneath a headliner? A good short detector will help you quickly locate concealed
short-to-ground circuits. For about 30 bucks, its a great time saver for you and your
customer alike.
Fuse Locations. See the follwoing diagrams for fuse locations in 740/940 and some
760/all 960 cars:
Relay Locations. See Michael Ponte's excellent illustrations below to identify relays in
740/940 cars. To access relays, remove the snap-on cover over the cigarette lighter, then
remove the two screws securing the storage box. Remove the box and you will see the
relay tray behind the fuses.
In 960 cars, the relays are in the same location but mounted on a vertical relay board.
Relay Identification in UK 760 Model. [Query] I need the relay identification on the relays
which are located on the side of the transmission tunnel under the plastic panel in the
passenger footwell compartment. These relays are labeled A,B,C,D,E,etc. No
disrespect ,but please do not refer to the ones in the compartment behind the ashtray
because I do not have that model. [Response: Steve] In my 1990 760gle United
Kingdom model the relays are A: main lighting(part); B: motronic/jetronic relay; C: central
locking relay; D: foglamp relay; E: main lighting relay(part); F: bulb failure warning relay
(front); G: overdrive relay; J: power boost relay; K: rear wiper delay relay;
L:windscreenwiper delay relay; M: seat belt warning relay. A, B, F, J, L, and M are
permanently attached to the board.
Hot Fuel Pump Relay. The relay should not get hot even if the pump is drawing too much
current...until the excess current starts to kill the contacts. Either way, a hot relay is a bad
relay. There are three possible reasons for a hot relay:
cold solder joint
bad crimp joint
bad relay contacts
All mean that a point in the relay has resistance and when current flows through that point
there will be a voltage drop which means work is being done and that work manifests itself
as heat (P = E * I). Over time the bad joint gets worse due to the heat and maybe heat
cool cycles, the resistance goes up, the joint gets hotter, the voltage at the pump goes
down so it needs more current to do the same work so the joint gets hotter, it gets worse,
well you get the picture. At its worst this kind of scenario can destroy a motor because the
low voltage condition causes a high current draw which over heats the motor. The relay
may or may not be fixable. I usually try to fix them and are often successful. Note that
Volvo released an improved relay, which has silver terminals, to solve this problem. If the
car's existing relay has copper-colored terminals, replace it with the newer relay.
Relay and Fuse Panel Removal. It is possible to pull the whole relay panel out the front of
its opening. Remove the plastic box (which also contains the accessory socket) above it
to facilitate this. There is an obvious clip that you bend slightly to release the tray. Lift
upward slightly, then the tray slides rearward and out. The opening in the console is just
the right size--the tray does not need to be turned or twisted.The wire umbilical attached
to it is long enough to allow the panel to be pulled out quite far. This is also how you can
hook up accessories to the fuse and relay connections under the panel. Use a good light
so you can see well.
Relay/Fuse Panel Base Replacement. My headlight relay got into a bad habit of getting
real hot. I had the same problem and after replacing the relay, I replaced the plastic base.
It's quite easy, get yourself a 1307160 ($2.89 CAD) and pull your relay/fuse tray out of
there. After removing the relay, flip the tray and remove each wire (tape the lug & mark the
position). You can usually coerce the crimp-on connectors out by bending the little tab
internal to each connector (with a small screwdriver). Once the relay base is clear of
wires, unclip and push it out. Install your new base and re-install each wire in the proper
position. I find that, using a knife, you can "restore" the little tab on each crimp connector
so that it "clicks-in" when you re-install the connector in the base. It is vital to have firm
connectors or else they slide out when you push-in your relay! One additional note... The
base melts because there is resistance & arcing between the crimp-on connector and the
relay lug. There is quite a bit of current going through there and you want to make sure
that you have tight connections. You can do that by "squeezing the gulls" of each crimp-on
connector. Contacts #30, 87 & 87b are the culprits (not sure if they are all used though).
My relay/fuse panel is all plastic. Double-check the part number of the relay base by
removing a relay and reading the part number in the center of a "good" relay base.
Relay Repair vs. Replacement. Here's a generic statement about your relay (which I know
nothing about) -- this statement displays my bias about the (poor) quality of Bosch wave
soldering. If you can pop the cover off the relay, try resoldering all the connections on the
circuit board before you replace it. (After all, you have nothing to lose but a few minutes.)
The heavy connections that go to large components like the actual relay may need a large
soldering iron or gun, whereas the connections at smaller components, such as
transistors, should be reflowed using a smaller iron, like a 25-Watt iron. If you're not
comfortable soldering, find a friend who is.
[Don Foster:] Over time (like 10 years), the solder used in production manufacturing
tends to become crystallized and cracks. The type of solder used in high-volume
production is different than that used in an electronics repair shop. The problem with the
relays is tiny, almost invisible microscopic cracks in the solder. These cracks usually
encircle one (or several) heavy connections, such as from the relay or a main lug
connector. Under a bright light, and using a magnifying glass, inspect the soldered
connections. Simply resoldering these circuit board very often restores them to perfect
performance, and it's a whole lot better (and cheaper) than a $50-$100 replacement part. I
have recovered literally dozens of Bosch relays (OD, fuel pump, wipers) to perfect
performance this way at $0. In fact, I resoldered ALL the relays in my family's 6 Volvos
before a failure stranded us.
Power Window Switches. [Switches don't work] I can suggest one course of action that
helped to alleviate the situation, take apart the individual window switches and clean them
out. The switch pivot has a bit of oil or grease on it and some of it gets on the ball bearing
contacts, causing dirt to get stuck and faulty contact points. The same may be true with
your child safety locks for the rear windows. It worked for mine, but I think I need to clean
the switch once more as it only operates correctly 80-90% of the time going down, and all
the time going up. I was even thinking of replacing the switch itself if that didn't work. No
experience on the power relays, though.
[Symptom: Window does not raise or lower.] [Diagnosis:] Switch. These are fun to fix. Pull
the switch assemblies out of the door handle (two metal springs at front and back hold
them in: use a screwdriver to lever them out. Then pop the switch out (I usually wind up
doing them all as long as I'm there) and pry the side off the little nipples so the cover
comes off each switch. Be careful since there is a spring in the rocker, you don't want to
lose it. Take out the little metal "lever" and use some very fine sandpaper to neaten up the
contacts on the lever and the contact points inside the switch. [Tip from John Yuristy] . I
wouldn`t use sandpaper or steel wool on contacts, some are just plated and you will
remove the good stuff.
[Response:Steve Ringlee] For a detailed analysis of the window switches, take a look at
Michael Ponte's analysis at http://www.mikeponte.com/volvo/pwin.htm. Another solution is
disassembling the switches (be careful in removing them from the black plastic holders),
de-oxidizing and cleaning them using an electronic de-oxidizer such as DeOxIt from Caig
Labs, then using a fine Scotchguard nylon scrubber to burnish the contacts, and finally
reassembling them using Caig ProGold protective coating (very small quantities precisely
applied) on the contacts to prevent further dirt and oxidization from ruining the contacts.
Caveat: I have tried the "rebuild" approach on these switches and found that it did not last
that long; I ended up buying a new driver's door switch from RPR for around $30 just to
save more work.
Power Door Lock Failure. [Query:] There has been a failure of the door locks on my 740
wagon. The tailgate unlocks with the drivers door but no other function works. Do I need
a new lock actuator or is there something else to check? [Response:] There is a switch in
the driver's door that sends a signal to a relay mounted on the central relay panel. The
relay then sends power to all the lock motors (all doors except driver's door). If some of
the locks are operating and others are not, then you have either a wiring problem or a
ground connection problem. Either way, the place to start is to remove the door panels on
those doors that are not working. Unplug the lock motors and check to make sure they
operate freely. If so, proceed to check the wiring with a multimeter - look for bad ground
connections, no power on lock/unlock leads when door switch operated, etc. I expect that
the three passenger doors are on one harness and that the tailgate has a separate
harness lead that comes from the relay. So look for those points which are common to the
three passenger doors.
Baked Engine Wiring. [Early-80s to 1987 240 and 7xx cars:] Harness failure often causes
multiple symptoms such as rough idling, stalling, hesitation, overall erratic performance
and random misfiring. The symptoms may mimic ignition or fuel injection trouble you've
encountered on other cars. I cannot address 240 vehicles newer than 87, the friends I
help do not own anything newer. In all the 240's I've seen there are several wires that are
"flaky": oil pressure; alternator wires and alternator dash signal; knock sensor; water temp
gauge; starter from ignition; starter to coil; primary ignition wiring near the ignition coil; and
on 7xx cars, harness connectors in the right rear corner of the engine compartment below
the ignition coil. ALL the wires from the ECU do not show any signs of deterioration in any
of the harnesses we have opened up. Since the flaky set are wrapped into the main
harness to replace them means replace everything. At big $$$ for Volvo & the service
center. After getting nailed for the 85's harness, I took preventive measures on my 83 and
others until we find a long down time to correct the problem. We replaced the alternator
and the oil pressure sending wires rerouting them around the right side of the engine bay.
We believe that if the alternator wire shorts to some other wire that is where the big
problems could occur. The alternator wire has the potential to supply a constant 12+ volts
to any of the others ( which are to ground) and act as a heater wire inside the harness,
getting hot enough to melt all the others. In my 85 it was from the starter wire to the
alternator wire up by the dash connector and was caught before much damage was done.
Had it replaced by the dealer thinking insurance only to find that insurance refuses to
cover this problems in Volvo's. Cutting open that harness revealed NO damage or
deterioration to any other wires in the harness except the above wires. Our solution: We
reroute with new wires to all of the above sensors. Best done with some other time
consuming task. To make it really easy we release the intake manifold. Takes two of us
about 3 hours to reroute all wires and replace the manifold. Tried it first without releasing
the manifold and it took 8 hours. I believe Volvo could have created a replacement
harness consisting of just these wires but did not do so because of $$. Another is that if
you catch the problem soon enough no other wires will fry because of a short between
two of the bad wires. Wait too long and other wires will be damaged from the heat of the
short. Since this is probably about the time Volvo found out about the problem, it looked to
them like all the wires in the harness are bad.
[Quick preventative:] Watch the wires coming from the connector directly under the
windshield below the driver and the oil pressure and alternator wires on the right front of
the motor. These are the first ones to go. If it starts reroute the alternator wire first as this
can cause the most damage if left in the harness. Then replace the starter, then the coil
wire as these have the next greatest potential for damage. If you can, get the wires
replaced before they cause other damage, do so as the cost will come out of your pocket.
[1983-1987 7xx cars:] If you are referring to the problem of wiring harness rot that affects
the 83-87 models, it usually affects the harness on the engine. On the LH cars, this
usually includes a fuel injection harness and a separate ignition system harness.
However, I have seen some deterioration of other underhood harnesses including the
wiring that goes to various lights (turn signals, corner markers, headlights, etc.
[Advice on replacement:] The engine wiring harness went bad on my 1983 240 Turbo
(170,000). I noticed it first when my starter would try to engage occasionally when I hit a
bump or turned a hard right. The wires up by the firewall on the left side of the car were
bare at the connector. I tried to separate and tape them, but that did not work. I found out
why when I replaced the harness. The harness runs along the left side of the block, and
EACH of the wires was completely bare the majority of the length of the block!! As you
know, depending on which ones touched which, anything could happen. REPLACE the
whole harness!!!!!! Trying to patch it will only lead you into hours and hours of nightmares
both as you attempt to cob it together, and as soon as moisture gets in your cheesy butt
connectors and your gauges, idle, starter, etc go wacky!!!
Remember: My Volvo is Turbo. Although a similar process, I can not speak directly on the
naturally aspirated version. The job took me (a former diesel mechanic but working with
limited tools on this job) 5 hours. I unbolted the intake and pulled it away from the head.
Of course to do this you will need an intake gasket. I recommend you do this also, as to
work around and under the intake would be treacherous. With the intake pulled away, you
can see straight down in there. You may want to replace your flame trap when you are in
there as you have a straight shot at it. Any troublesome vacuum lines could easily be
swapped out also.
The new Volvo harness is color coded exactly as the original. (big advantage). It is also
exactly correct in length. (huge advantage). Just remove the old one, being careful at
each connection - temp sensors, alt, oil press, etc. are all very dry. You may have to cut
the old harness out in pieces as it is not pliable at all. Install the new one by starting at
firewall and working your way along the block and around to the oil press and alternator. It
is pretty self explanatory really. Leave about 5 hours to do it. This sounds like a lot, but
multiply it times the hourly rate of your local shop, or the cost of burning up a starter (and
a tow) like I did, and you will have a little more incentive to clear up some time on
Saturday morning. No special tools. (May want torque wrench for intake if you are
REALLY particular). I shopped all over and I purchased it from NILS SEFELDT Volvo in
Houston Texas (281) 721-1600 (800) 468-0041 fro $230.22 and the gasket for $11.70.
[Additional tips from Dick:] My suggestion: do not remove the intake manifold on the 700
series. Remove AMM and hose to intake, idle speed motor and hoses, also flame trap
and oil trap. Label stuff carefully. Begin your rewire from under the car, ie the oil pressure
sender light, removing the old stuff as you go. Your new harness has yellow bands
indicating where the clamps should be. Remove the harness from the AMM and replace
with new. You will have to remove the knock sensor wiring and mark it . I think you get the
picture. With the oil trap removed, you can clean it and put a new O ring on it (leak
source) and new flame trap. Other suggestion is to remove the 3 plug ins on the
passenger side and pull then through and under the manifold along with the injector
harness stuff.
Believe marking and labeling is extremely important. I blew the brains out of a 240 by
mixing up two similar 3-prong connectors. Label the old harness too because you can
always compare wire colors in the connectors that are alike.
[More from a VCOA Wiring Clinic, courtesy of the BrickBoard:]
Scope: The problem afflicts 200 and 700 series Volvos manufactured during the period
1983-1987 [Note: several commentators would also include the 1981 & '82 models of 240
series.]. The problem has also appeared in other vehicles manufactured during the same
period with Bosch electrical systems. Owners of all vehicles manufactured with Bosch
electrical systems during the period should inspect the engine wiring harness. Anyone
considering purchase of such a vehicle should inspect the engine wiring harness if the
harness is the original.
Presentation of problem: Disintegrating insulation on wires exposed to high temperatures
for long periods (10 years or more).
Symptoms: All vehicles within scope are vulnerable to the problem. Close inspection of
the engine wiring harness will reveal the problem before it causes short circuits. If a
vehicle within scope exhibits drivability problems that are intermittent and cannot be
otherwise diagnosed, short circuits in wiring harness caused by deteriorating insulation
may be the cause.
Inspection: Use a strong light source and check wiring, paying particular attention to
wiring passing close to high heat sources. High heat sources include intake manifold,
exhaust manifold, turbocharger, block, firewall.
Common locations presenting problem: B23: firewall near main connector, alternator,
intake manifold. B230: ground wires on intake manifold, oil pressure sender, water
temperature sensor on block. B28/280: no engines were available for inspection.
Solutions:
Temporary solutions: liquid electrical tape, applied in several coats over several hours,
good between -20 and 255 degrees F; shrink-fit insulation, applied with heat gun or torch,
good past 400 degrees F, but hard to fit correctly over end connectors; spliced wiring,
recommended by some Swedishbricks and SAAB list members as the most nearly
permanent fix that does not require a new harness. Standard electrical tape is at best a
one-month reprieve. Any solution short of splicing lasts no more than a few months.
Permanent solution: new wiring harness, cost ranges between $250 and $350 (US).
VCOA has been successful in persuading Volvo to lower the price of its wiring harnesses
for vehicles within scope, and current price range quoted above reflects those reductions.
Prices have been cut from 33%-50% from previous levels (Example: old price of engine
harness for B230FT engine was approximately $500, now reduced to $270). Dealers who
offer club discounts will add their standard discount to the current prices. It is absolutely
critical that you order the correct harness. Very difficult to do when there are 3-4 variants
out there, yet little way to tell the harnesses/engine applications apart.
Workability: Owners who prefer to have a mechanic install the new wiring harness can
expect to pay 4-6 hours of shop time for the job. Owners who prefer to do the job
themselves should set aside one or two days. For the B230 engine, it is recommended
that the owner have all vacuum hoses replaced at the same time, as well as fuel injector
seals. In addition, performing the job on the B230 engine involves removal of the intake
manifold and air intake valve, and so requires replacement of the intake manifold gasket
and the air intake valve gasket. Owners who have replaced wiring harnesses of B23 and
B280 engines may wish to offer advice on other maintenance that should be performed at
the same time, as well as other parts (besides the wiring harness) that may be required.
Dielectric grease for multi-pin connectors, as well as an oxidation inhibitor for single
connection points to aluminum ground, are recommended. Do not interchange the two, as
dielectric grease is an insulator, while oxidation inhibitor is a conductor.
Picture References. Check out http://www.homestead.com/volvo2/harness.html
for visual images and instructions for wiring harness replacement and other maintenance
items.
Dielectric vs. Conductive Grease to Protect Connectors and Grounds. [Query:] You have
repeatedly recommended the application of dielectric grease to underhood wire
connections. Isn't the insulating property of such grease counter to the goal of
IMPROVING the integrity of electrical connections? I would think that a conductive paste
(such as Eastwood's Kopr-Shield) would be better. The only potential downside I can think
of is that sloppy application could cause short circuits, but care and common sense
should preclude this. [Response:] This is a good question and one that I have received
several times. Yes, it is true that the dielectric grease is non-conductive. However, in the
context of connections that carry voltages larger than 1 volt, the grease will not result in a
bad connection. The male and female connectors will wipe enough of the grease off at the
mating surface so that the electricity will flow just fine. The important part is that there is
no chance of the grease creating a conductive path between adjacent terminals in a multiterminal connector. The main purpose of the grease is to seal the terminals against
oxidation which creates a high resistance barrier and moisture and dirt which can result in
shorts and ground paths.
It is important to note that on all Volvos, the Oxygen sensor signal lead carries a very low
voltage (0.2v - 0.8v) and the dielectric grease must NOT be used on this lead as it will
interfere with the signal voltage.
For the GROUND connections - especially those in the engine compartment where the
ground leads are fastened to aluminum surfaces like the intake manifold, I recommend
using one of the conductive greases like OxGuard. These are found at electrical supply
houses and are typically used by electricians to treat the end of aluminum electrical
cables to prevent the very high resistance aluminum oxide from forming at connections this was a common cause of house fires. The same high resistance oxide plays havoc
with engine management system signal voltages. You can eliminate the problem by
cleaning the aluminum surfaces and treating with the conductive grease. Also note that
many of the spade type crimp on terminals that are available are made of aluminum. It is
very difficult to find copper ones. [Note: see also the note on greasing connectors under
Engine Tune, Performance.] DON'T use OxGuard on engine or chassis electrical
connectors or sensors.
Circuit Board and Contact Repair. [Tips from Joe Ward] My rear taillight has been
blowing the bulb rather frequently. Upon a closer inspection I noticed it had worn the
copper trace where the lamp holder contacts the copper trace. I removed lamp holder,
lightly sanded copper trace areas with some 600 grit, cleaned with alcohol, applied a thin
film of conductive epoxy on all three copper traces and let dry overnight. Next morning it
was hard as rock and conductive! This product was found at a local electronics supplier
(it was near the check-out counter and it occurred to me this would be a good product to
try before replacing). Product is used for field repairs for circuit boards that have cracked
or broken traces and soldering not available. Cost ~8.00 for tube but it didn't take much.
[Tip from JohnB] I had a similar problem with the plastic/copper circuit board below the
steering wheel on my Saab. So I sanded the copper circuit and placed about 5-6 strands
of copper from some 12-gauge multi-strand twisted together and flattened onto the copper
on the plastic and using a 350w Weller soldering gun and electronic rosin core solder, just
flashed the copper/wires together
Power Windows Operate in OFF. 1986 740: I just noticed that my power windows work
without the key in the ignition. [Response:] a stuck relay would do that. Either that or
there's a hot short at the relay socket or in the wiring between the relay and the ignition
switch. Should be leftmost relay in the front row. It also powers the electric radiator fan, so
given a hot engine on a hot day it too could run when the key is out. A hot short between
the relay and the fan thermostat would also enable the power windows. Try tapping on the
relay to see if that doesn't at least make a temporary difference. If that helps then you may
be able to salvage the relay by opening it and using contact cleaner. If not, then pull the
relay anyway and inspect socket for evidence of shorting. After that it's either try a new
relay or start tracing with a multimeter.
Relays Run Hot. 87 740 B230F 120,000 miles. Problems with the 740 fuel pump and
headlight relays are well documented. Volvo has a tech. bulletin that recommends
replacement of the relays and the sockets, which have both been done to my car before I
purchased it. Driving today, I put my finger on the fuel pump relay and it was darn warm. I
could just hold my finger on it - any hotter and I wouldn't be able to. Is this
normal/acceptable? If no, what's the fix (another relay??). [Response:] Relays on Volvos
run hot. That's why I drill holes in the covers. You must first remove the circuit board to
drill the cover. On overdrive relays, I have never had to replace a relay with holes in it, it
seems to help a lot. I have also run cooling to the relay/fuse board from the crotch cooler
port, so when the A/C is on, it blows cool air on the board via hose. It may help and can't
hurt. [Another:] I've seen several instances on 740s of excessive contact resistance at the
fuel pump relay connector. This causes overheating and melting of the spade connectors
and plastic socket. It probably wouldn't hurt to examine the male spade connectors and
socket for signs of high resistance and overheating (discoloration of metal, melted or
burned plastic). [Another:] Your description of the innards of the fuel pump relay sounds
right.... the wires from the solenoid coils to the PCB are small and fragile -- but I've never
experienced them breaking (at least, breaking from vibration). Because they're fragile,
fingers off! Soldering the PCB is done on the other side from the components. You'll notice
the component leads (including the fine wires) stick through and are soldered to so-called
"traces". These traces are copper, but are usually completely covered by solder so have a
silvery color. You'll also see where larger tangs stick through and are soldered -- these are
the heavy-current leads from the relay contacts as well as the relay connectors.
I usually solder the heavy connections using a soldering gun (but carefully, because these
deliver a lot of heat quickly, and can damage a PCB). The smaller solder connections are
best done with a small 25-Watt iron. Of course, you must use electronic solder, not
plumbing solder (which contains an acid-based flux).
Slow Battery Discharge. See the "Starting" section for more information.
Multiple Electrical Failure: Ignition Switch Bad. [Query:] After stopping our '90 745T the
ABS light came on, the blinkers did not work, along with the power windows. Wife
managed to get home and call me at work. My first reaction was, of course, a fuse. But
when I got home and started up the car, everything was fine, along with the fuses. Any
ideas on a solution to my quandary? [Response: Abe Crombie] The electrical switch
behind ignition lock is almost certainly the culprit. You can test for this by starting car and
then turn key a few degrees either way and see if you can't duplicate what your wife
observed. The switch has the spring in it that returns the key to run position after you go to
the starter position and it can weaken or wear. The switch is easy to change and is readily
available through a good parts supplier.
Cruise Control Surges: Worn Servo. [Query:] What is the fix for surging with the cruise
control ON. It tends to fluctuate 2-4 mph in level driving conditions. Real annoying.
[Response: Abe Crombie] Look closely at the servo on the throttle housing that tugs the
cable wrapped around the throttle spool. This can get a hole worn in it and the vacuum
level that keeps throttle positioned evenly is impossible to maintain.
NOTE: The information on this sheet is provided to you on an "as is" basis with no representatio
of accuracy whatsoever. It is the sole responsibility of the installer to check and verify any circui
connecting to it. Only a computer safe logic probe or digital multimeter should be used. Dr.Detai
other associated or unassociated individual or corporation who furnishes this document assume
no liability or responsibility whatsoever pertaining to the accuracy or currency of the information
installation in each and every case is the sole responsibility of the installer performing the work
other associated or unassociated individual or corporation assumes no liability or responsibility
resulting from any type of installation, whether performed properly, improperly or in any other wa
information supplied is a guide only.
Power wire
The power wire for your car starter should be connected either directly at the battery or to the w
supplies power to the vehicle's ignition switch. Some vehicle's have more than one wire supplyin
switch but may be fused differently. A good example of this is the dodge intrepid, there are 2 con
wires at the ignition switch, both are the same gauge, RED & PINK/BLACK. The RED wire is fus
and the PINK/BLACK is fused at 40 amps, connecting a remote starters power lead to the RED
eventually result in a blown fuse as most remote car starters draw much more than 20 amps. If
car starter has 2 power wires you can connect 1 power wire to each of the vehicles power wires
which one is used to supply the accessory output and connect that wire to the power wire that c
higher load.
Ignition wire
This wire supplies power to the vehicle's ignition system and fuel pump, it shows between 10 an
the key in the RUN and CRANK positions of the key switch. Some vehicles have more than one
all ignition wires should be connected when installing a remote starter. Use relays for connecting
ignition wires.
Ah, yes, thats right, I bought a MegaSquirt ECU from someone on the GRM board. Also
included in the box was a wiring harness and the assembly guide for the ECU. Seeing as
there are a few wiring decisions to be made, I decided to go through the build instructions
and ensure that everything was in the correct place. Everything was where it needed to be
except for two things. Considering how many components are on this thing, thats pretty
darn good.
These two transistors were in the correct places, but they were put in backwards. The
curve of the narrow sides is supposed to follow the silkscreened curve on the PCB.
After ten minutes with a soldering iron, solder wick, and a pair of pliers the problem is
solved.
While driving the car I noticed that the ABS warning light wasnt coming on when it should
(while starting the car) and the ABS wasnt working. So I pulled the gauge cluster and
replaced the bulb. Wouldnt you know it, ABS light comes on and stays on.
So it seems that the previous owner(s) had left the ABS broken so long that the warning
light actually burned out, nice.
I did a couple of hours of research on the internet for why the ABS wasnt working. It turns
out that there is a fusible link in the ABS relay under the dashboard breaks after someone
jump starts the car backwards. I pulled the relay apart and found this:
The fusible link was broken. The internet also told me that you could solder a couple of
wires across the broken fuse with a 7.5-8 amp fuse inline. So I did just that.
Put it back in the car and the ABS light went out and the ABS worked. But I also noticed
that the relay was getting very warm while the car was running. So I took the relay apart
again and found that one of my solder joints wasnt connected well. In the process of
fixing it I accidentally unsoldered another joint in the relay. It happened to be one end of
the coil wire and proved impossible to fix. Next run to the salvage yard Ill look for a
replacement.
Yesterday was the first autocross of the season in my region so naturally I had to go.
It was a lot of fun, but I was reminded how much I hate automatic transmissions in
performance applications. I could bump shift it between 1 and 2, but it still felt slow.
Overall impressions: the car has lots of body roll, the nearly new all-season tires arent
very good (to be expected), the limited slip works well, the engine pulls strong (at least
compared to my del Sol), and the seat needs to be lowered and/or the sunroof removed.
In two weeks the car gets its daily-driver privileges revoked and we can finally really start
digging into it. I cant wait.
1995-2002 Toyota 4Runner Fog Light Installation Using Factory Fog Light
Prewire
I recently installed aftermarket fog lights on a 2000 Toyota 4Runner (Third Generation). I
was able to use some of the factory wiring that was already ran for optional factory fog
lights.
Under the hood on the driver side, you should be able to locate the fuse/relay panel. The
fog lights fuse/relay location are normally clearly marked on the top plastic cover.
The fog light circuit is typically fused at 15 amps. If the vehicle didn't come equipped with
the factory fog lights, there will most likely be no relay in the location. If you look at the
relay location you will notice five female spade connectors. The two larger spade
connectors on the right side are the ones I used (A and B. One should meter constant
12V, the other should meter continuity to the pink wires on the factory fog light harnesses.
The factory fog light harnesses should be taped up behind the bumper. On each side,
they are pretty easy to find.
On the factory fog light harnesses you should have two wires
White/Black - Ground
Pink - Goes up to fuse/relay panel in engine bay (Positive)
If you connect your aftermarket fog lights, to the wires at the factory fog light harnesses.
White/Black wires should connect to ground wires coming off the aftermarket lights, Pink
wires should be connected to the positive wires coming off the aftermarket lights. Now
when you jump terminals A and B at the factory fog light relay location, you should be able
to power up your new fog lights. The fog lights I installed required about 8 amps of current
with the vehicle off.
Now all I did was run two wires one from terminal A and one from terminal B, though the
fire wall into the vehicle and connected them to an on/off switch.
You will always want to make sure to use a switch that is appropriately rated for
this application. If I remember correctly I used a switch rated to handle 25 amps @12
Volts.
Hope this helps!
If you haven't installed an aftermarket stereo into a Volvo XC90, then you may find this car
audio tip helpful.
The stereo removal is pretty easy if you need step by step direction for removal I will post
a link bellow.
Moving on, once the stereo/ac control panel is removed you will need to separate the face
of the stereo from everything els. Make sure the key is completely out of the ignition
switch before disconnecting any wire harnesses. Do not place the key back into the
ignition switch until you have reconnected all necessary harnesses.
The main LCD display will need to be reconnected and remain in the vehicle to allow the
factory components to function properly. In order to make this possible you will first need
to remove the LCD display from the stereo panel.
The CD changer portion of the stereo can be removed, and will no longer be used. The
main LCD will need to be reconnected and set aside.
This is the CD changer harness. Other than the two orange fiber optics cables there
should be three wires.
12V Constant - Violet/White
Switched 12V - Violet
Ground - Brown
When I wired up the new stereo harness I tapped into the Violet/White for my 12V
Constant at this harness, but I tapped into the cigarette outlet power for my Switched 12V
and ground because I know the cigarette outlet is rated for more current.
The wires coming off the cigarette outlet harness should be,
Switched 12V - Violet
Ground - Black
Once you have connected your main power wires for your stereo, and any accessories
like the power antenna, SWC interface, you will need to connect your speakers. The Volvo
XC90 I installed this stereo in had what was called the eight speaker system. Some will
come with the twelve speaker system, with an optional sub. If the vehicle your installing
the new stereo in has the twelve speaker system you will need an additional amp to
power the additional speakers. Otherwise some speakers will be lost including the factory
sub.
The speaker wires can be found back bellow where the factory stereo/ac controls mount,
in the dash.
After locating the speaker wires you will want to cut each pair. One side will be coming
from the factory amp, the other side will be going to each set of speakers. You shouldn't
need to use the side that runs down towards the factory amp under the passenger seat.
The other side should be the side that runs to each set of speakers, you will want to test
this side with a digital multi meter. You should get a reading of around 2ohms on each pair
of speaker wires. Now depending on the stereo your installing, will depend on how you
will want to wire these factory speaker to your new stereo. If your new stereo doesn't
support 2ohm speakers, then you may need to wire the front left and rear left speakers in
series and the front right and rear right speakers in series to get the impedance up to
around 4ohms. You will lose your "Fade" in the stereos settings, along with some volume
and quality but should allow you to power the factory speakers off the aftermarket stereo
without adding an aftermarket amp. If you are also installing new speakers then you
shouldn't have to worry about the impedance of the factory speakers.
After you have all your wiring taken care of, you will want to place and secure the main
LCD nicely bellow the stereo. I normally rap it in carpet.
That's just about it, sometimes you will have to cut out some of the plastic behind the
stereo to get it to fit in just right. One other thing you may want to be aware of is the
headphone controls in the back of the vehicle will be lost.
If you happend to trigger the AIR BAG LIGHT then you will need to get that code deleted
at the dealership, or if you want to do it yourself you can purchase a diagnostics tool like
this.
It is the Autel AutoLink AL619
Anyway I hope this helps!
If you are looking to use the factory upfitter switches in a Ford F-Series Super Duty Truck
(F-150, F250, F350, F450, F550) then this tip may be helpful to you.
The 4 factory switches are typically located on the lower passenger side of the dash,
below the stereo.
They can be used to power and control additional accessories, when the vehicles ignition
switch is in the on position.
The auxiliary upfitter switch wires aren't typically the wires you will clearly see right bellow
the driver side steering column.
You can typically find the wires and the relays under the plastic cover, located on the end
of the driver side dash.
Once that cover is removed, you should see the black relay pack.
You can remove the black cover to reveal the 4 auxiliary switch relays. The output wires
will be located below the relay pack, coming out of factory black split loom.
Near the output wires, you should see a white tag that identifies the aux output wire
colors with the aux switch number.
AUX 1 - Yellow
AUX 2 - Green/Brown
AUX 3 - Violet/Green
AUX 4 - Brown
You should be able to located the fuses for the auxiliary switches in the fuse panel to
identify the max current for each switch. I believe AUX 1-2 are 30 Amps, and AUX 3-4 are
10 Amps.
If you need more room to work, you can unclip the relay pack and pull it out under the
driver steering column right near the parking brake.
You can also then gain access to the wiring off the back of each auxiliary relay.
Hope this helps!
- JEREMY
I recently had the pleasure of installing an overhead LCD/DVD player in a new 2013
Mercedes Benz with a sunroof. Not to much different from any other vehicle with a
sunroof, just had to really pay attention to details.
I placed the overhead up to the headliner, to get an idea of where it would look and
function the best. Once I had an idea of where I wanted it, I checked for clearance by
dropping the driver side of the headliner. I then placed the metal mounting plate in the
center of the chosen location, and double checked my measurements.
Time to cut the headliner, I slowly cut the piece of the headliner out with a razor.
(Always make sure the sun roof and sun shade are in the closed position!)
Once the piece was cut and removed, I checked for proper fitment.
The back of the overhead mounting plate will be secured to the roofs reenforcement bracket that runs across the roof of the vehicle. The front will be supported
by the headliner.
I riveted a piece of ABS plastic to the front egde of the metal mounting plate. This piece of
ABS will rest on the top side of the headliner so when the overhead LCD/DVD player is
mounted to this plate the headliner will be sandwiched in-between.
On the back of the center consul there should be a power outlet that is switched power.
I used short steel rivets to secure the back side of the mounting plate to the vehicles reenforcement braket. I had a little less then 1/4th inch to work with and using screws was
just to risky.
One other thing you must be carful with is where you run your wires, I ran mine in the little
channel of space I had between the headliner and the re-enforcement braket that runs
across the roof. If you don't run your wires properly you will get marks/scratches on the
sun shade.
Once I had my wires run and mounting plate secured, I mounted the overhead and tripple
checked clearance.
If you still want to run the original switch, it's probably not capable of carrying enough
current for modern needs without seriously limiting the the voltage or burning out all
together.
However, there is a way to keep it and still use it to power everything. That's right, our old
friend the relay.
The relay is just an industrial sized switch. With it the older ignition switch can still be
used, but now it will simply turn on and off the relay which takes hardly any juice at all...
And it's simple to do:
Now if you have a newer style switch, they're capable of handling much more current.
However, if you're running lots of accessories, then you still may want to run a relay.
Now, to wire up your fuse panel, look at the following diagram. Note that only one wire
power wire can run a few circuits on the fuse panel. You use jumper wires. Some
aftermarket ones come with them, and others you just make your own.
Circuit : Ron J
Email :
Description:
This circuit features exit and entry delays, an instant alarm zone, an intermittent
siren output and automatic reset. By adding external relays you can immobilize
the vehicle and flash the lights.
Notes
The alarm is "set" by opening Sw1. It can be any small 1-amp single-pole
change-over switch - but for added security you could use a key-switch. Once
Sw1 is opened you have about 10 to 15 seconds to get out of the vehicle and
close the door behind you. When you return and open the door the buzzer will
sound. You have 10 to 15 seconds to move Sw1 to the "off" position. If you fail to
do so, the siren will sound. The output to the siren is intermittent - it switches on
and off. The speed at which it switches on and off is set by C6 and R10. While
any trigger-switch remains closed, the siren will continue to sound. About 2 to 3
minutes after all of the switches have been opened, the circuit will reset.
One of the inputs is connected to the vehicle's existing door-switches. This
provides the necessary exit and entry delays. It's usually sufficient to connect a
SINGLE wire to just ONE of the door switches - they're generally all connected in
parallel with the return through the chassis. You can add extra normally-open
switches to the door-circuit if you wish; but note that any additional switches will
have to be able to carry the current required by your vehicle's interior light.
Any number of normally-open switches may be connected - in parallel - to the
"Instant" input. Since they don't have to carry the current for the interior light,
you can use any type of switch you like. You may want an instant alarm on the
bonnet, the boot, the rear-hatch, the rear-doors etc. It doesn't matter if these
already have switches connected to the door-circuit. Simply fit a second switch
and connect it to the instant input. It will override the delay circuit. You can use
the chassis for the return. However, a ground terminal is provided if - for any
reason - you need to run a separate return wire for either zone. If you're not
using the instant zone then leave out Q2, R3, R4, R5 & D3.
The exit delay is set by R1 & C1, the entry delay by R9 & C4, and the reset time
by R7 & C3. The precise length of any time period depends on the characteristics
of the actual components used - especially the tolerance of the capacitors and the
exact switching points of the Cmos Gates. However, for this type of application
really accurate time periods are unnecessary.
The circuit board and switches must be protected from the elements. Dampness
or condensation will cause malfunction. Fit a 1-amp in-line fuse AS CLOSE AS
POSSIBLE to your power source. This is VERY IMPORTANT. The fuse is there to
protect the wiring - not the alarm. Exactly how the system is fitted will depend on
the make of your particular vehicle. Consequently, I CANNOT give any further
advice on installation.
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The circuit is designed to use an electronic Siren drawing 300 to 400mA. It's not
usually a good idea to use the vehicle's own Horn because it can be easily located
and disconnected. However, if you choose to use the Horn, remember that the
alarm relay is too small to carry the necessary current. Connect the coil of a
suitably rated relay to the "Siren" output. This can then be used to sound the
Horn, flash the lights etc.
Add an Automatic Immobilizer.
Before fitting this immobilizer to your vehicle, carefully consider both the safety
implications of its possible failure - and the legal consequences of installing a
device that could cause an accident.
If YOU decide to proceed, you will need to use the highest standard of materials
and workmanship. Remember that the relay MUST be large enough to handle the
current required by your ignition system. Choose one specifically designed for
automobiles - it will be protected against the elements and will give the best
long-term reliability. You don't want it to let you down on a cold wet night - or
worse still - in fast moving traffic!!! Please note that I am UNABLE to help any
further with either the choice of a suitable relay - or with advice on its
installation.
When you turn-off the ignition, the relay will de-energize and the second set of
contacts (RLA2) will break the ignition circuit - automatically immobilizing the
vehicle. When the ignition is switched on again the relay will not energize; and
the vehicle's ignition circuit will remain broken. You must press Sw2 to energize
the relay. It then latches itself on using the first set of contacts (RLA1); while the
second set of contacts (RLA2) complete the connection to the ignition circuit.
The design has a number of advantages. It operates automatically when you turn
the ignition off - so there's no need to remember to activate it. The relay uses no
current while the ignition is off - so there's no drain on the battery. To de-activate
it you'll need to have the ignition key and you'll need to know the whereabouts of
the push-switch. Sw2 only requires a single wire because its return is through the
chassis. It carries no load other than the current required by the relay-coil. So
almost any small "momentary-action, push-to-make" switch will do. For extra
security Sw2 could be key-operated.
The Support Material for this alarm includes a step-by-step guide to the
construction of the circuit-board, a parts list, and a detailed circuit description.
Starting problems?
Please read this information before going further.
If you have starter motor problems on your vehicle please read this page
through before going out to buy or even phoning the garage It may save you a
lot of money and heartache.
Even if having the work undertaken by a garage make them aware of this
information/content. Many garage operators will not be aware of the situation
in respect of starter motors on this car.
The A class is fitted with 4 different starters and so going to an car accessory
outlet may not produce the correct starter for you particular car
Two of the Starters as different purely by brand name 'Bosch' , and
'Valeo' these are standard motors and operate in conjunction with a lock out
relay situated under the bonnet of the A class.
However the other two are NOT standard and have built in
immobilisers .
The only way you can find out the correct starter for your car is to use your VIN
number/chassis number and purchase from Mercedes.
Mercedes Parts system will detect if your vehicle is fitted with a starter with
built in immobiliser and if so which of the two variants should be fitted. If as
indicated below the paper work on the last page of your service book displays
an 049 in the range of codes displayed then your car does require a starter
with a built in immobiliser.
Fit the wrong starter and your car will not start using the Starter Motor, in fact
the starter motor will not even operate.
There is no doubt that with this car you live a learn and best learn fast or you
will grossly out of pocket.
This e-mail was received from an owner in South Africa and I'm pleased to see
she did her home work and saved on the ESP/ABS problem and also saved
money when it came to dealing with a defective/suspect starter motor.
I ask you this question if this motor has been replaced in a Mercedes-Benz
workshop would they have owned up to the failure being caused by over
lubrication? I think not, You would have paid a fortune for the work and the
replacement motor not knowing the true cause. Thanks to this owner you have
now been made aware of another possible cause for the starter motor failure,
so for those of you and I include myself if you have problems. Ask for the old
starter back , as far as I'm aware they are not exchange they are a straight
replacement which makes the old motor your property, it got to be worth
taking a look.
:-quote
Thanks for a great site, had a problem with ABS/ESP/BAS light showing while
driving with the car going into the infamous limp home mode. Your advice
regarding the brake light switch solved it!
( mypage 18)
Some other info: I had intermitted starter problems for two years, agents only
resolve was to change it at enormous cost!
Eventually I removed it and the only problem was that there was too much
lubricant in the bearings that spilled on the commutator. Cleaned it, and it has
been perfect for two years now! Went to the agent and found 5 starter motors
they have replaced with same problem.
Regards from South Africa
Unquote
Prelimary check
Is power reaching the starter motor?,
Unlike most cars when the starter fails one would hear a click, on this car it is
usual to hear nothing at all
You will therefore not know if power is reaching the starter motor and solenoid.
You can however check this by opening the battery/fuse board access hatch in
the floor, disconnecting the triple pin socket and plug situated towards the far
side of the battery compartment, (shown above) put the red cable probe of
your voltmeter into the socket carrying the Mauve & White cable, (this is the
thickest of the three cables going to the triple socket and plug) the black(earth
probe onto the battery earth connector.
With the volt meter turned ON , No power will be registered when the ignition
key is in either position one or two,
However when the key is turned to the start position and held the volt meter
should read the voltage You can however check this by opening the
battery/fuse board access hatch in the floor, disconnecting the triple pin socket
and plug situated towards the far side of the battery compartment, (shown
above) put the red cable probe of your voltmeter into the socket carrying the
Mauve & White cable, (this is the thickest of the three cables going to the triple
socket and plug) the black(earth probe onto the battery earth connector. With
the volt meter turned ON , No power will be registered when the ignition key is
in either position one or two, However when the key is turned to the start
position and held the volt meter should read the voltage going to the starter
motor, this will at least confirm that power is reaching the cable feed to the
starter motor, if no power is recorded on the meter then I would consider the
starter cutout relay suspect. Note the voltage available for the starter from my
battery which is fully charged. This car will not start if the battery is sub
standard/defective going to the starter motor, this will at least confirm that
power is reaching the cable feed to the starter motor, if no power is recorded
on the meter then I would consider the starter cutout relay suspect. Note the
voltage available for the starter from my battery which is fully charged.
This car will not start if the battery is sub standard/defective
This photograph from the rear shows us where the starter motor A and
solenoid are located in relation to the engine.
And of course if sitting on the workshop floor as seen here, no problem of
access in fact it couldn't be more straight forward. you could in fact change the
starter with in minutes, rather like the olden days with fords ,Morris minors and
so on.
However when as is normally the case the engine is in this car it is a very
different story as the engine lays at a 45% angle and the starter motor is
tightly sandwiched between the underside if the floor and top of the engine, in
fact it is impossible to even touch the starter let alone get at, so even such
That would have been far to easy and anyway where would the after sales
income come from if every thing was that easy?
No sorry if you can't do this job yourself it is going to cost you hundreds and
that's before you pay for the new starter and the VAT Oh and yes it could gets
worse!!!
If this is you first starter problem on the 'A' Class and the car has done a high
mileage 80000+ then it is most important that the ring gear is checked , the
geared ring situated on the fly wheel. This can be done by inspecting the ring
gear through the port into which the starter motor is normally housed. Ideally
the engine needs to be turned through 360 degrees so that the whole ring is
inspected and the ring gear tends to wear at particular spots rather than even
wear over the complete circumference of the ring.
This can be done by putting the car in 2nd or 3rd gear and turning the drive
shaft, while you or a third party inspect the gear as it passes the starter port.
However because of the very limited space available you may have to use a
mirror to view the ring gear teeth.
Being aware now of the starter location one could be forgiven for believing
that it is secured to the engine with bolts, well it is BUT they are technically
screws in that you need a mail Torx bit to remove them.
However from this photo it appears the electrical connections to the solenoid
are standard If this is you first starter problem on the 'A' Class and the car has
done a high mileage 80000+ then it is most important that the ring gear is
checked , the geared ring situated on the fly wheel. This can be done by
inspecting the ring gear through the port into which the starter motor is
normally housed. Ideally the engine needs to be turned through 360 degrees
so that the whole ring is inspected and the ring gear tends to wear at
particular spots rather than even wear over the complete circumference of the
ring. This can be done by putting the car in 2nd or 3rd gear and turning the
drive shaft, while you or a third party inspect the gear as it passes the starter
port. However because of the very limited space available you may have to
use a mirror to view the ring gear teeth. Being aware now of the starter
location one could be forgiven for believing that it is secured to the engine
with bolts, well it is BUT they are technically screws in that you need a mail
Torx bit to remove them. However from this photo it appears the electrical
connections to the solenoid are standard bolts. bolts.
PLEASE NOTE
Having removed the starter, I would mark the tooth central to the starter port
with white paint, this will enable me to not only ensure that the engine is
turned through 360 degrees but also ensure the starter is fitted back to the car
as found. This action will delete any remote possibility of the crank-case and
cam-shaft sensors detecting a change in the engine set up.
(It is worth noting that the engine is much easier to turn over if the plugs are
removed first although this would need to be carried out prior to lowering the
engine as you cannot get at them once it is in the lowered position.)
The ring gear is the gear wheel attached to the flywheel on which the starter
motor gear wheel (starter Dog) engages every time the car is started. If this is
heavily worn then you are wasting your time putting in a new starter motor,
with out assessing whether to take the risk of damaging the new motor.
Big decision time!
Because if you do decide by necessity that the fly wheel ring gear should be
replaced, then the engine has got to come out of the car and the gearbox split
from the engine , only then can you get at the flywheel and replace the ring
gear.
There was a time when the ring gear alone could be changed , this was done
by drilling off the old gear, heating the new ring and then placing it over the
flywheel and allowing it to cool whereupon it became fixed to the flywheel.
In today's throw away World I suspect you will have to purchase the complete
flywheel with the ring gear pre-attached, I have no idea if this is the case nor
am I aware of the cost.
What I am however aware of is this this is a very different job to lowering the
engine and replacing the starter, it will be costly and the car will be off the
road I suspect for at least couple of days dependent on who you employ to do
the job, unless you have a means raising the car and dropping the engine out,
down below the raised car it is not a DIY task. If this task does have to be
carried out and you car is a manual gearbox, then it is a wise move to replace
the clutch at the same time, although adding to the cost it will pay in the
longer term.
B The starter motor
C The starter solenoid, the unit which engages the starter dog and passes
power to
D Starter motor dog, the cog which engages on the fly wheel ring gear and
turns the engine over to start.
Take a good look because you won't see it or get at it on the car, it is
sandwiched between the top of the engine and the floor. One just hopes that it
never fails! which sadly they do.
It is most important that when replacing the starter that you ensure the starter
Dog (Cog) is identical to the one on the starter being removed from your car .
After market starters may be cheaper BUT they may not be identical and will
cause more problems when fitted , in one case the new starter damaged the
ring gear which then required the engine to be removed and the ring gear
replaced.
Ring Gear
The ring gear fitted onto the flywheel can be purchased alone , this can then
be fitted by the owner or a garage , BE WARNED, if the ring gear is not fitted
100% correctly you will have problems and both starter and new ring gear will
need to be replaced.
MY Advise purchase the flywheel complete with new ring gear fitted, Yes it will
cost more but when fitted it will work and you will not need to get the engine
removed again to replace them both at of course extra cost and
inconvenience.
Mercedes Parts can cost more but if supplied to your Vin Number By mercedes
Parts, then they should be correct for your car
The flywheel and ring gear in the photo on the right has been removed from an
automatic 'A' Class and is not therefore solid.
The photo on the left is off a ACS model which has the same solid flywheel and
the manual version
in both cases they show the damage caused by wear which is inflicted on the
ring gear over many years of use.
This damage can be seen through the starter port (location point ) as the
flywheel is turned. In high mileage cars this damage should be looked for
before the new starter is fitted.
The teeth between the yellow sector are badly worn with the result that when
the new starter dog (gear) tries to engage at this point it may be damaged or
even fail to turn the engine.
On a used flywheel the tips of the teeth and certain places on the flywheel will
be slightly worn, this is acceptable but where they are badly worn as indicated
between the yellow marker it is advisable to replace the flywheel or ring gear
should be replaced.
If you have facilities to heat the ring gear alone then the gear only can be
replaced on the flywheel certainly on the manual version, I do not know if this
is the case with the automatic .
where the flywheel is scored (Grooved) or you do not have full workshop
facilities it may pay you to replace the flywheel complete with ring-gear
Why are some teeth worn more than others ?
This is due to the compression of the cylinders which causes the engine to stop
in one of four points on the flywheel . Inevitable wear will arise at these points
over time.
Removing the plugs prior to commencing work to replace the starter Motor will
enable you to turn the engine with ease, thus inspecting the complete ringgear
Two Types of Starter Specification
Just when you think your getting to grips with all the little intricacies of this
vehicle something else crops up that reminds you of the vehicles complexity
and variation between not only different models but years of manufacture.
There are apparently two types of starter motor, yes we now that the Russian
site shows a 'Bosch' and 'Valeo' starter motors. But now we hear, and it is
confirmed that there is one starter fitted with an immobiliser feature and one
not, at present I cannot find out any more accept that one is 80.00 more than
the other, and that the immobiliser version was fitted to the last of the preface lift models W, Y, Reg. vehicles.
Following an e-mail about a car not starting after having had a new starter
fitted it came to light that a 2002 'A'140 W168 also had the starter with the
immobiliser, so this variant is not it appears restricted to late pre-face lift
W168s
It should be noted that where the car is fitted with this variant of starter motor,
the car will not be fitted with a starter lock out relay. see details below.
If I get more information I will post it .
In the meantime if you have starter problems ,make sure you purchase your
new starter using your Vin number ( Vehicle identification Number ) Number or
you could well find yourself with more problems than you started and you will
have to repeat all the work to get the new starter back off the car!!!! Buy it
from the Car Breakers or E-Bay and you could have the wrong component for
your car. Fitting cheap or even second hand spares where they can be got at is
one thing, fitting them in obscure locations like this starter with all the work
entailed is quite another.
128.. I still
have
starting
problems
even after
replacing
the starter motor!!
Hi Lofty
I could not find the email address for asking questions about A class mercedes.
I was so pleased to find your forum as I have been searching the internet for a
solution or explanation to my problem.
I have an A 140, 2002 that has done about 85000 miles. It has always been
reliable but now has a starter problem.
I have read through all of the questions/answers related to this but have not
come across my exact problem although it sounds very similar to many of the
e-mailers.
Like many of the other, one day it would not start. Left it for 5 minutes and it
started no problem. About 3 weeks later, same problem. Left of 5 minutes and
started ok. 2 weeks later, wouldn't start and couldn't get it to start. Next day
started first time. This then started happening on a weekly basis, and you had
to leave it for at least half an hour.
Took it to my local garage who said they thought the started motor had gone.
Booked it in to be done the next week. Replaced the starter motor and it will
not start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have phoned Mercedes who say that it must be
the computer, over 1000 for the part and must go the MB as it needs to be
programmed to the car? The garage has told me that as an alternative, they
could fit a button on the dash that connects to the starter motor so that it can
be started. I am very worried.
What do you think?? Appreciate your advice.
'R' (female)
'R' Hi
Forget what MB say for a start, even if the ECU does want a repair we have a
company that can repair or replace the ECU and re-code for a max of 350 less
15% if you mention my site .see mypage.38. BUT I'm sure it won't come to
that
Have you tried replacing the starter lockout relay?
it is situated under the bonnet in the black box secured to the bulkhead left
hand side. you have to search carefully in the box because the relays are deep
in behind the loom wires, you can get at them from the passenger side by
pulling the carpet back but I have never removed one, they are held in by
small clips see my page fuses and relays
There is every chance that's the cause of your problem When you turn the
ignition on do all the instrument cluster lights come on as normal every time?
I wouldn't have a modification done as you may well cause other problems,
gone are the days when you could just stick in an extra switch, the 'can-bus'
system is all interlinked and one item affects another when they go wrong.
Did you get a diagnostics test done before you started any work?
Come back to me if you want further information but in any case the car does
not want a 1000 new ECU lofty
Feed back
Hi Lofty
Finally a conclusion to my problem.
I took all of your information to my garage regarding the starter lockout relay
and gave him your website address. The starter relay was not where you had
described, even the fuse and relay diagram with the car said it was. He phoned
MB, they said it should be there!
Anyway, to cut a long story short, there are 2 types of starter motors fitted to
my model A140. One has a starter lockout relay as described and the other
has it built in to the starter motor.
The new starter motor MB supplied was one that has a separate relay and the
one they should have supplied was the one with it build in. The starter motor
was replaced yet again and now it is working.
If you hadn't planted the idea in their heads that they need to locate the
starter relay, I do not think this problem would have been solved and they
would have gone along with MB thinking it was a problem with ECU.
thank you. 'R'
Lessons have got to be learnt from this owners experience, I'm not aware what
information was supplied to the Mercedes-Benz Parts department supplying
the New starter motor, BUT it is essential that the VIN number not only be
supplied but that the MB parts use that VIN to find out what spares are
appropriate for the car, if you purchase parts using the Van, and they turn out
to be, as in this case, the wrong parts for the car, seek damages from MB for
the costs incurred in the installing and removing of the incorrect part. They
might then take more care with the next customer.
This is the experience of another owner who didn't initially go to Mercedes:Hi lofty My Vin no is WDB1680312J560***, the starter motor no is
A00515121080. My partner went to 'Euro-Car Parts' before contacting
Mercedes-Benz, they had two starter's but didn't know which one was for my
car even though they were given the Vin No!
They also said that one had an immobiliser and one didn't. What they did say
was they needed to see the old starter.
As I mentioned in my last mail, mine doesn't have an immobiliser in the starter
motor, it does have a lock out relay, although this is pretty hard to find.
Anyhow the main thing is, it is now working again, thanks again for all your
help M.
There is a warning on this very page about the different starters, only you and
the supplier can ensure the correct starter is supplied and fitted, lowering the
engine twice to fit and remove the starter is no joke. do not GET CAUGHT OUT
BY THIS MISTAKE, take my advise, get MB parts to write 'Vin checked on the
sales invoice, then you have real come-back
Hi Lofty,
Here is the latest update:
The starter motor they fitted was indeed the wrong one and it took them 2
days to find out. In the end they had to order one directly from Mercedes Benz
and re-fit it, they will not charge me for the extra labour though.
The car was ready on Friday afternoon but when I called to arrange collection I
was told there is a noise coming from steering wheel now!
The guy who worked on the car told me he thinks it is related to the steering
angle sensor and that it will need replacing for the noise to disappear.
Just to make it clear, there was no noise on the steering wheel when I took it to
them and this only happened because they removed the wheel to check the
ignition switch when they couldn't find what was wrong (after they fitted the
wrong starter!) and obviously they damaged something in the process.
The lad that worked on the car admitted that as there was no noise when I
took the car to them and that the steering wheel would not have been
removed at all if the correct starter motor was fitted in the first instance.
The garage owner is arguing that he will not pay for this but I do not
understand what his argument is, it was clearly their fault!
More arguments to follow tomorrow morning, can you believe this saga? my
advise unless they correct the fault they have caused?
Cheers, Marc
My reply to Marc,
If they do not play ball :- www.Consumerdirect.gov.UK, this is consumers direct
line to complaining to Trading Standards who will not take the case unless you
have first taken the matter up with Consumer Direct. when you contact them
and give details they will give you a case number inform the garage of you
intention
I suspect the problem is as simple as to be that the short screw one of three
has been re-located in the wrong hole and is fouling as the steering wheel is
turned.
So you have been warned
So do not just go off and buy any old starter you could be completely wasting
your money as well as, either money having it installed or your own time
installing it. and it is not a quick job! In either case it will have to be removed
because it will never work.
Examples of data cards, Some digits have been removed to protect the
vehicles identity .
This unit is a Bosch rebuilt unit and is exchanged for your defective unit , I
have no idea of cost but having been rebuilt by the manufacturers or their sub
contractors it should be as good as a brand new unit from Mercedes-Benz.
Certainly worth making an enquiry, but make sure your Vin number year of car
terminal of the battery to any clean metal part of the combined engine and
gearbox, if the car then starts the problem is the earth.
if your car is a manual and it will start when bump or tow start, that will almost
certainly eliminate other causes for the car not starting and points more
directly at a starter motor.
There are circumstances where due to wear on the starter dog and flywheel
the starter will jam, no further response can be got from the starter. (Jammed
starter, in effect the solenoid has thrown the starter dog, the small cog on the
starter which engages in the ring gear to turn the engine over, start the car
and has jammed in the teeth of the ring gear on the flywheel.
If a manual gearbox car, then put the car in a low gear, Ignition OFF and bump
the car backwards and forwards this action more often than not allows the
sprung loaded dog to disengage/clear from the flywheel, however it will
happen again in the long term so be prepared for a large bill because in this
instance the engine will have to come completely out of the car, the gearbox
split form the engine and the flywheel and starter replaced, a 1000 + Job.
Be aware that because of the location of the starter motor, which as stated
earlier is situated between the under floor and top of the engine, the engine
will need to be at least lowered to allow you to remove the starter motor, even
then space is tight.
Obtain the replacement starter motor, if it is an exchange unit/item then make
arrangements to return the old unit once removed.
Ensure you get the correct starter for your particular vehicle, Use your Vin
number to confirm the type of motor fitted,
It is my understanding that there are two types of motor fitted to the A class,
Bosch & Delco, I was also told that on some A class the starter motor is fitted
with an immobiliser so it is most important that you get the right one.
Also while you purchasing the starter buy yourself two exhaust suspension
rubbers, if your car needs a starter it is very likely that the rubbers (ring A168
49 201 44) are original and will be best changed at the same time. see
page.34.
Also situated between the catalytic converter and the main silencer box there
is a seal, (seal A168 49 201 181) This may well need replacing have split the
two boxes in which case at least order this item, your Mercedes Parts dept will
mail this to you when they have it in stock)if needed it can then be fitted at a
letter date, All of these parts have a part to play and are checked on the
MOT/UK (Annual vehicle inspection)
Now you wonder when the list will end BUT when was your poly V belt last
changed or even inspected, they are not expensive and it is certainly worth
considering changing it at the same time as replacing the starter , because the
engine is lowered it will also be easier. The last thing you want is a poly V belt
shredding soon after your starter motor replacement. for details see page
57.Remember these jobs you are about to undertake would cost you well over
600.00-800.00 plus vat so do not short-change on doing that little extra
The first job to prevent damage to the paintwork of the vehicle and to allow
monitoring of the lowering process, is to remove the front bumper /spoiler
assembly.
(If you have my CD 'Lofty's Homepage' copies Feb 2008 please see the file
'Starter lowering engine', as a reference.)
Steering alignment
Align the steering to the dead ahead position see page 49 for detail
Now remove the ignition keys and gently move the steering wheel slightly in
either direction until the steering lock engages
Remove the ignition keys and do not replace until the steering column has
been re-connected to the steering rack.
Because the starter motor complete with solenoid is sandwiched between the
floor and the top side of the engine you may well, like Pete a fellow owner
want to work from the engine bay as well as under the car, if this is the case
then it is necessary to remove the screen wash reservoir
Simply siphon out the fluid into a clean container for further use.
Release the screen wash reservoir from its fixing,
lift and remove the washer pump complete with hoses from the side of the
reservoir, the pump assembly is simply retained in the container by a spigot
which houses into a rubber grommet, just gently ease it out.
This will allow you to completely remove it from the engine bay.
Disconnect the electrical connections to the power steering the lid of the
protective black box has been opened to display the connections located on
the bodywork N/S front lower engine bay.
see page.49.
Pay particular attention to releasing clips and cable ties , the last thing you
want on lowering the engine is to damage wiring ,looms etc where possible
secure these items up out of the way of the moving assembly, a few extra
minutes spent looking for these fixings will save you hours of labour and heartache later on, note some black clips are not that conspicuous!
Remove the two 'Scart' like plugs that are located at the back of the ECU,
along with the wire going to the windscreen washer heaters this will prevent
any stress being applied to the loom wiring and casing see page 38 for detail
Cut /release any cable ties securing the loom to the engine (replace on
completion to prevent abrasion of the cables)
Disconnect the air intake hose from the air filter housing, as it is a fragile item,
I would also remove it from the front cross member again it will not handle
being crushed or damaged and to be able to see what else is going on as the
engine is lowered and thus prevent damage.
While in the engine bay area I would Remove the Air filter housing a simple
task along with the ECU, although this sounds a lot of work most jobs only take
minutes.The ECU is a very costly item and should be stored safely a
replacement will cost you in excess of 1000.it have to come from MercedesBenz Germany
Now the steering column lower UJ can be easily got at and can be
disconnected from the steering rack, take care not to damage the
gaiter.<br mypage.16.>
Remove the two radiator fixing clips. there removal allows the radiator to move
with the whole assembly.
Disconnect the electric fan, you will see I have passed the cable through to the
front of the car and secured it with red tape , this is one connection you cannot
not afford to forget to re-connect, leave it in the engine bay and if it doesn't
get damaged it will be forgot!
Air conditioning filter dryer electrical contact , will only fir one way again
secured to the front of the car out of harms way, the metal pipe going to the
dryer has a flexible high pressure section in it but watch this to make sure it is
not put under any stress,
DO NOT ATTEMPT REMOVING ANY AIR CONDITIONING PIPE WORK OR HOSES
THESE ARE UNDER PRESSURE AND THE SYTEM CONTAINS REFRIGERANT
GAS/LIQUID. see page31.
Remove both front wheels ensuring that axle stands or support (remember you
will need your trolley jack for lowering the engine)using the front two jacking
points.
Wheel Arches
It is necessary to remove the plastic lining from the front wheel arches.
This is to allow you to access the rear Torx Bolts. Release the clamp on the air
conditioning pipe located within the o/s wing, ( While you there check for signs
of damage to this pipe! In at least one case it was damaged by abrasion due to
ill fitting and was the cause of a failure of the Air conditioning facility)
Place the plastic wheel arch linings somewhere safe, they will not take kindly
to being trampled on!
Both front wheels will need to be removed before the lowering process can
begin
The air conditioning pipe enters the engine bay lower off/side, ensure the pipe
is released from the securing clip there also . This will allow the engine
movement without damaging the pipe.
Rubber hoses are another example where damage will cause you even more
work, make sure they are unclipped and free to move with the complete
engine and sub frame.
Also having completed the job again make sure that none of the hoses are
contacting other component parts that will cause wear and eventual major loss
of coolant and other fluids, or in the case of wires/looms that they are in
contact and will suffer abrasion.
The engine has to be lowered complete on the sub frame I have a 2 ton trolley
jack and that will be sufficient to do the job, make sure the relief valve works
easily and the the jack does not drop while under load.
Ensure the jack is situated so as to take the load evenly. If available have axle
stands or blocks positioned so as to stop the combined load engine and
gearbox from being lowered more than 80mm, set these up prior to
commencing the lowering process.
This photograph was kindly supplied by Chris which clearly shows the starter
location while under the car, when the back of the engine is lowered .
Do bear in mind that his car is a 'B' Class which may have slightly more room
than the 'A' Class
While undertaking a task such as changing the starter will in most instances
reveal other problems , in this case rusting of the sub-frame, a good spray with
duck oil or even a coat of rust treatment would be well worth while both of
which will retard the rusting.
Chris is of the opinion that there is sufficient room for removing the starter
from below PROVIDING you have the correct tools and equipment to raise the
car to a safe working height. Please see page 5 before even considering
working under your car
The point is made that the engine mounting needs to be completely removed
to allow the engine to drop , failure to remove the mounting will result in it
jamming on the projecting lug.
Remember to do this job you will require a range of tools and other equipment,
including Torx Drive sockets and torque wrench.
You just cannot afford to take chances when working under the car! And to do
so would be irresponsible.
You will also need a piece of substantial timber, preferably hard wood, 1.1
meters long Approx (3' 9" inches long, this allow for overhang either side of the
sub frame. the piece I have in mind is (10cm x 6 cm approx.
This will be placed beneath the sub frame and will take the weight of the
complete engine and gearbox (power pack)while lowering, so do not short-cut
on the quality of the bearer, timber you use/purchase. A metal bearer would be
Ok providing is was sufficiently robust but timber is less likely to slip than
metal on metal.
Although this photo shows the car at an angle it is purely to show the sub
frame layout the car would need to be higher for working under and also level
or jacking the sub frame would be more difficult.
Having placed the bearer beneath and central to the sub frame supported by
the trolley jack, we are now ready to slacken the sub frame securing bolts,
from the diagram above we can see there are 4 each side,
While the trolley jack supports the sub frame remove the Torx bolts both sides,
When released slowly lower the combined unit , Pay attention to all hoses
pipes and electrical cables while doing so
DO NOT LOWER MORE THAN 80)MM (3.25 inches)
Air conditioning compressor
Where it is foreseen that the amount lowered exceeds 80mm it is necessary to
remove the Air conditioning compressor , DO NOT disconnect any hoses or
connections , simply remove the 'Poly V belt' < href="mypage.38,htm"> see
page 38 and release the compressor from it is fixing it should then be secured
to the under floor in such a way as to avoid putting any stress on hoses and
pipe work, being replaced when the necessary work has been undertaken and
before the engine is fully restored to it is working position.
> The space created should allow you to remove the starter motor, you may
like Pete decide to do this from the the engine bay(Top) or from the bottom
(under the car)(Please note I have not done this job myself) Do remember that
there is an electrical connection that needs to be disconnected from the
starter.
I suggest that the securing nuts would be best loosened before slackening off
the starter securing nuts.
Withdraw the old starter motor
The manufacturers do advocate inspecting the flywheel ring gear for damage,
However if substantial damage /wear is apparent on the teeth of the ring gear
the flywheel may need replacing, only you can now decide what action to
take . To replace the flywheel as stated earlier the engine will have to be
completely removed and the gearbox split from the engine a very large job
which may well be out side the scope of DIY.
This diagram shows the location of the starter securing Torx Bolts
Note when removing the nut from the larger of the two cables there should be
a protective insulation cap, this will prevent you locating the spanner until
removed , ensure it is replaced following re-connection of the cable.
If you suspect that there is damage to the flywheel, the starter can be heard to
run but does not engage, i.e. turn the engine sufficiently to start the car, then
you would be best advised to get the work done a garage, UNLESS of course
you have full access to garage facilities.
As mentioned earlier dependent on the miles driven, it may be wise to replace
the clutch assembly complete with thrust bearing at the same time as
replacing the ring gear. More expense and work this time but saves removing
the engine again in six months time when the clutch goes! see page 58
Torque settings
Bolts starter to transmission-------------------Nm20
Cable to starter circuit ---------------------------------------6
cable to starter terminal-------------------------------------9
Bolt exhaust to catalytic converter-----------------25
Bolt steering shaft to rack-------------------------------20
Front axle carrier screw on to the body-------120
Strut screw on the front-axle carrier--------------60
If you have a good workshop handy with a vehicle lift that would be of a great
help, but few of us have facilities of the nature available.
I had one guy who managed to remove it from the engine bay but it is so
cramped that it is near impossible to even locate the motor. If you locate the
oil filter housing at the rear of the engine the starter is inline with that on top
of the engine, see my page 33,& 66,
One thing I would say is before you condemn the starter look at the age of the
battery 3= -4 years and it would pay you to replace it the 'A 'class is a car that
really must have a sound battery anything less the 98% and it causes all sorts
of problems. ideally 13 volts plus and I know we all think of these cars as being
twelve 12 volt but a new battery will provide 13v plus and the car enjoys and
runs well with a fully charged battery so much so that I trickle charge my
battery about once a quarter, but in fairness I am these days doing g few runs.
Hope that helps there is all sorts on info on the CD that's not on the site, but
for the supplementary files run the free program http://www.irfanview.com/ it is
ideal for reading and scrolling these files where as a lot of program's are slow.
best wishes
Feed back from Emad
Thank you for sending the A160 CD.
I feel stupid for not ordering the tool together with the CD. I will do that soon.
I have not used the CD yet. However, I was trying to buy the starter motor
before doing anything. While talking to a Benz parts place at
www.mbspares.com.au the sales person said something about the ignition
switch.
He told me that the ignition switch may have become faulty and advised to
replace it first before changing the starter motor.
This sales man did not try to sell me anything "he actually does not have the
switch in his stock" but offered an advise.
I thought I'd seek your opinion too!
Now for the last three days our A160 started ok without a miss. However there
is that kind of a rough noise at the end of every crank right before the engine
kicks in.
As you know, I do not wish to run around spending money on something that is
not the actual cause. What do you reckon?
My reply
Emad,
One thing you need to do to try and eliminate the switch is when you start the
car ensure the key is supported square to the slot, many of us me included
carry bunches of keys on the same bunch as or ignition keys this in time wears
the switch and it then needs to be replaced
2 Shows Emad's Flywheel and worn starter ring gear, To replace the starter
without replacing the rear gear would be a waste of time and the new starter
would soon be damaged.
However the amount of wear on the ring gear will be relevant to the mileage of
the car, with any high mileage car 100,000 miles + you would be well advised
to replace or at least thoroughly check the flywheel
The cause of the waste oil contamination should also be investigated, Should
this get into the bell housing (location of the flywheel and clutch assembly)
then the components will become contaminated with the oil and will need in
the short term to be replaced due to the clutch plate slipping on the flywheel
(clutch plate not driving the gearbox.)
Pressure washing the engine can not only cause electrical problems but also
drive this sort of contamination into the bell housing.
I do not know what mileage you car has done ? but if it is high 10000+ then
there is every chance that it is the starter but from what you say you would
need to examine the flywheel ring gear as well as it may be that that's causing
the noise when you start your car, the engine has a habit of stopping on four
points on the ring gear which means that those four points teeth on the gear
wear and causes problems it that the starter turns but does not engage fully
on the ring gear.
3</br These photos show Emad's flywheel and worn clutch plate, the wear
being detected by the thickness of the remaining clutch plate relative to the
securing rivets . If removing the engine to replace the starter flywheel
complete with starter ring gear then it is also advisable to replace the clutch
plate assembly as was done in this case.
The ignition switch is not straight forward to change but it is easier than the
starter motor, the other thing you must bear in mind is that there are two
starters and you must get the right one for your VIN No or the car will not start
or even turn over if the wrong one is fitted. Try supporting the key or even
detach it from your other keys see if that helps if yes then the switch is
suspect, if no then it could still be the starter but equally do not forget that
battery condition will effect very dramatically the staring performance of your
car . If the battery is 4+ years old get it tested that may well cure all your
problems.
Feed back from owner
4 Emad's car in for repair. We could all do with a friend who owns garage
equipped like this one photographed, obviously a mechanic from the older
school, using his hands and with the skills to do a good job.
Sadly too many so called mechanics these days do not have the experience,
knowledge or in some cases the right tools to do the job, relying far to much
on diagnostics which can cause more problems that it cures.
We can if we study this page learn quite a bit we have owners changing their
own starter motors at low mileage because the motor fails, that fine but do
remember that if your car has a high mileage on it then as I predicted with
Emad's car the ring gear will almost certainly need replacing and if the engine
is being taken out then use the opportunity to change the clutch plate
assembly it is false economy not to do so, that way you know you the car is in
good condition as far as starter plus ring gear and clutch are concerned.
Many thanks Emad for the information and photos, they will I'm sure help other
owners understand the car better and also make them realise the amount of
work involved when starter problems develop on their Mercedes-Benz 'A'
Class.
This information was received from Richard and I have incorporated in the
page because it is typical of the starting problems encountered by owners.
Some of the content is relates to various electrical measurements / recordings
while testing the car for faults these may be of interest to readers who have a
volt meter and can test their own car if they suffer the same problem as
Richard. quote
Dear Lofty
Thanks for sending the CD and tool so quickly, very impressed , the additional
material on the CD looks very good.
I have a bit of a question for you, or at least would like your opinion on
something from your experience with the A Class.
I have just brought (private) a 2002 A140 manual , I am very pleased with it ,
drives great , no horrible noises or worrying lights (touch wood).Full service
history.
Unfortunately five days after I brought it I could not get it to turn over.
Immediately I thought starter or ECU or relay?
On the A140 there is no relay in the ECU box for the starter inhibit, I have
checked and its not there , understandable for a manual car with a clutch.
The symptoms where as follows.
Turn key to position 1 and the SRS light comes on , then goes off after a few
seconds.
Turn to position 2 and all the rest of the lights come on.
Turn to position 3 (crank) and nothing, although a lot of clicking from the
engine and the fuel pump/purge can be heard.
I called out the AA who said that my battery volts where low, we tried to jump
start from his portable power pack but just the same, so we gave it a bump
Certainly it involves a lot of work, if you have the expertise, yes it can be done
but great care would need to be exercised to avoid loosing the present gear
selector/box settings.
That said I received this information from Bob in Australia who replaced his
Valeo starter from the top, he took his time and the job was very successful.
Bob's e-mails are below, they are worth a read and may help you decide if you
can tackle this job:Hello Lofty,
I have attached some photos of my starter motor change, I bought the genuine
article through the UK from Poland, its a Valeo motor.
You will see in the photo of the engine bay, the manual cables which run over
the top of the starter. these did not really present a problem.
The thermostat housing has to be removed to make it easier to get the starter
out, that black plastic water pipe and the oil filter housing stayed, I could
juggle the starter out with the solenoid passing under the pipe and the rear of
the starter coming out towards the thermostat housing area.
The two securing bolts I can confirm are torx T40 although a Allen key would
probably fit but not the best fit if they are really tight.
Its best to fit the rear bolt into the starter first, then juggle the starter nose
first and then under the gearbox linkage cables then into its mounting position,
fit and nip up the top bolt first.
Its possible if you have long slim fingers to slide your fingers over the top of
the starter, feel the bottom bolt which you placed in the starter earlier, then
slide it into its mounting hole and its possible to roll the head of the bolt with
your fingers to start it a few threads.
Tools I used were a combination of various extension bars, 1/4 and 3/8 and
universal couplings.
The tricky part was getting the solenoid terminal nuts back on! So I cut a small
piece of paper masking tape and jammed it into the socket and then pressed
the terminal nut into the socket to make a nice tight fit in the socket so it
would not fall out.
This worked extremely well.
I found that the gearbox rubber breather hose was rotten and split and broken
at the inlet manifold. I just capped the manifold port, left the breather hose
lying on the block, it can breath to atmosphere.
I also found the rubber fuel line hose from the injector rail to the firewall pipe
had many splits along it length and sooner or later would burst so I replaced
that along with the rotten engine breather hose.
A fresh oil change and filter was done 5w-50, the engine starts and runs
perfectly now, got rid of that lazy lifter rattle, the car has been sitting for about
6months with little use.
Hi Lofty,
Yes you are right, MB would change a fortune to replace the starter. Valeo
starters can be purchased in Australia locally from $663-$750 which I am sure
are the Chinese version! The genuine Valeo starter I purchased came from:-
is that the engine has to be dropped to get at the starter motor which is
sandwiched between the under floor on the passenger side and the top of the
engine.
Lowering the engine for changing the starter motor is the method used by
Mercedes-Benz Workshops and a bill for close on 1000 would not be out of
order with VAT currently being at 20% 04/01/2011.
The question comes when the car is still very serviceable and in good general
condition but the replacement of the starter exceeds the value of the vehicle.
Well Tom it appears has come up with the answer, and forwarded the
procedure in the hope that it will assist other owners faced with the same
predicament, provided you are prepared to do the work yourself or can find a
mechanic who will undertake the work or assist you with the job, it can be
done without raising the car or dropping the engine albeit there is still quite of
lot of work involved and mechanical knowledge skills are required.
However it is advisable to have a good understanding of what you are
undertaking before commencing work and to obtain not only the correct
replacement starter for your car but also other spares which might be required
during the procedure.
In the first instance I recommend you read fully mypage.43. with emphasis
being on this
page 66.
Also make
yourself
familiar with
the photos
on mypage.3
3 in respect of
the precise
location of the
starter Motor.
Also be aware
that the
starter motor
you install
must be
matched to your Vin number, failure
to do this and there is every chance
the starter motor although not coded to the individual car when fitted will still
not operate, not because it is defective, but because it is the wrong type motor
for your particular 'A' Class' car's electronics set-up.
There would be some advantage to having lofty's CD to hand as it includes
files of information which would be useful when undertaking tasks of this
type. Purchase CD now
Starter motor lockout Relay
In common with most modern vehicles a starter motor lock out relay is fitted,
so ensure this is checked for correct operation before undertaking work to
.replace a defective starter motor
Unfortunately there is only one relay of this value fitted on the A class so if you
.suspect the relay it does mean purchasing a replacement unit
However in the case of some relays the cover can be easily removed you will
.then be able to see if the relay closes when the power is applied
In the case of this relay it can be seen the the contact points 'A' are worn
which is what would have caused the intermittent problem when starting by
this owner
With cover in position, if the relay is working, when the ignition is turned to the
start position the relay will be heard to, or felt to click, I.e. closing of the
contacts within the unit which allows power to pass to the starter motor
.solenoid which powers the motor. Revised part number
A0002 542 76 19.The photo on the right is of the old unit removed, and bears
.the old part number
Note the lugs on the sides of the relay , these engage with the white retention
clips ensuring the relays remain fully housed, use other manufacturer's relays
.and you may not have this facility
The history to this defect was that even after replacing the ignition switch the
owner still had spasmodic problems starting the car. On some occasions only
the SRS light would show when the ignition key was turned, when this
happened the owner knew the car would not start, turn the key on other
occasions and all instrument cluster lights would show, when this happened he
.knew the car would start
Remember a Mercedes-Benz 'Star' diagnostics short test will cost you 50.00
approx, that's the price of two relays so the relay replacement is the cheapest
option initially, the worst that can happen is that you finish up with it as a
.spare part
The other option is to clean the points with fine' wet & dry' and then re-test,
.although I would replace it as soon as convenient
.value
New file
black tape next to the fuse box). I need to go back & tidy up the installation. I
did it on the quick whilest on a road trip when the inverter connection kept
crapping out in the cigarette lighter socket. The hard-wired 400 watt inverter
does great. I think we pulled something on the order of 220 watts continuous
.thru it while on the road & never so much as a hiccup
There are a few ways to wire your new electric cooling fan depending on
how much control you want over the engine temperature. Your kit most
likely came with a controller specifically made for your fan and in Part
1, Install an Electric Fan for Increased Power and Cooling, we went over how
.to install the new fan and mount the controller nearby in the engine bay
Now were going to wire it all up based on the typical controller thats
normally included. Performing the wiring on your new electric fan may
sound like a daunting task, especially if youve never done any wiring, but,
its not. Were going to wire them so the fan turns off when the ignition is
turned off. Remember to use heat shrink tubing for all your connections to
protect them from environmental elements. With thinner wires (like fan
motor wires), an additional tip is to strip an additional 1/8 of insulation and
fold them over to increase the thickness of the wire sliding into the butt
.connector
TOOLS
Strip the blue and black wires coming from the fan motor 1/4 from
their ends. Twist each of the wire ends tight and fold them over like we
mentioned above to increase the thickness.
Strip the 10-gauge black and red wires supplied with the kit, 1/4 from
one end. Twist the wire ends tight.
Crimp a butt connector to the blue fan motor wire, sliding the wire into
the connector until the insulation contacts the metal inside the
connector. Crimp the 10-gauge red wire into the other end of the butt
connector making one long wire.
Route the wires from the fan to the controller and cut them to the
proper length.
Strip 3/8 of the insulation from both the newly cut red and black wires
and twist the ends.
Insert the red wire into a spade connector until the insulation contacts
the metal insert. Crimp firmly but not enough to deform the connector.
Alternatively, if your controller is already pre-wired, use a butt connector
to join the red wire from the controller to the blue fan motor wire.
Do the same with the black wire.
If your controller accepts spade connectors, slide red and black wires
with the spade connectors on them onto the correct spade lugs on the
controller.
Route a length of 16-gauge red wire from the controller to the fuse
panel inside the car, tying it away from exhaust components and moving
parts. Be sure to go through a hole in the bulkhead with a rubber
grommet to prevent shorts.
Attach a spade connector to the controller side and connect it to the
correct terminal.
Locate a fuse for a circuit you know is only powered when the engine is
running, such as the ECU/TCU/Cruise Control/etc.
Remove the fuse, install the fuse piggyback, and reinstall the fuse.
Attach a spade connector to the end of the wire and connect it to the
piggyback.
Attach large ring terminals to the battery side of both wires and spade
connectors to the controller side. If your controller is pre-wired, use butt
connectors instead.
Plug the red and black wires into the controller terminal lugs according
to your instructions.
Attach the battery end of the black wire to the negative battery
terminal or ground using the ring terminal.
Attach the battery end of the red wire to the positive battery terminal
using the ring terminal.
Insert the fuse into the fuseholder.
Locate the radiator inlet and slide the temperature probe between two
of the cooling tubes within two inches of the inlet. It may be easier to
create a hole with a punch tool first before sliding in the temperature
probe.
Mount the switch somewhere easily accessible from inside the car but
where it isnt going to be accidentally hit.
For the ground use a piece of black 10-gauge wire, strip 3/8 from one
end and install a spade connector, connecting it to the correct terminal
lug on the switch.
Find a good ground under the dash (like the steering column or brake
pedal assembly) and cut the black wire to length, crimping a ring
terminal to the end. Attach the terminal to the ground.
Use another piece of 10-gauge wire between the switch and the
controller, preferably other than black (yellow is good). Strip 3/8 from
the switch side, crimp a spade connector on it and connect it to the
correct terminal lug on the switch.
Safely route this wire through the firewall, zip tying it away from
hazards such as moving parts and exhaust system components to the
controller. Cut this wire to length, strip it and crimp a spade connector to
it in order to slide it into the right terminal lug on the controller.
Locate the inside fuse panel and route a piece of 10-gauge red wire
from the switch to the panel.
Attach a spade connector to both ends after safely securing the wire
away from moving parts and connect the switch end to the correct
terminal on the switch.
For the other end, locate the stereo/radio/accessory fuse (for switched
or ignition positive power) or battery terminal (for constant power). If
using switched power, remove the fuse, install the fuse piggyback
connector and reinstall the fuse and connect the wire to the piggyback. If
using constant power, plug the spade connector into the lug labeled
Batt.
Locate the circuit that energizes the fan clutch. You will need to
determine if it goes to ground or positive when energizing as this will
affect where you connect the wire.
Many controllers require that you identify and use the positive signal.
Use a three-way connector to tap into the clutch trigger AWAY from the
compressor and belt(s).
Route the newly tapped wire to the controller and into the correct
terminal.
It used to be that electric radiator fans were low-performance add-ons that maybe
pulled a couple of extra degrees of heat out of overheated muscle cars. But today,
they are an integrated part of all but the most heavy-duty vehicles.
There are hundreds of electric radiator fans available in the boneyard in a variety of
sizes, many of which are dictated by space considerations. If fan depth isnt critical,
the consensus among confirmed junkyard builders is the Lincoln Mark VIII 18-inch
fan or Fords slightly smaller, 17-inch Taurus LS/95 Thunderbird/95 Cougar 17-inch
fan are the best. These fans move a serious amount of air, which is why they are so
popular with car builders. The hero is obviously the 18-inch, big-dog Lincoln fan,
which is still relatively easy to find in the boneyards. If you have trouble finding a
used one for roughly $30, consider a brand-new one from Rock Auto at only $72
plus shipping. Most of these electric radiator fans operate in two speed modes
high or lowdepending on coolant temperature. Some however, are only capable
of a single speed. A three-pin connector indicates a two-speed version. The electric
fans with only two wires in the connector are the less desirable single-speed units.
Wiring is the area in which some car crafters may need some help. Rather than
simply toggling these electric fans on and off in high-speed mode, there is a simple
and easy way to wire the fan to operate it in both modes, running the high speed
only when necessary. This is especially important when you consider that the fans
high-speed side demands every bit of the 40 to 42 amps to keep it spinning. This
places significant load on the charging system. Low-speed operation pulls a more
conservative 28 amps.
Both the Lincoln and T-bird/Cougar electric radiator fans come with an integrated
fan shroud, which is another reason they offer such great cooling potential. Because
each vehicle application is different and car crafters are good at mounting the
electric fans, we focused our attention on the critical aspect of wiring and
establishing an efficient switching mechanism. While you can just hook up a simple
toggle switch, thats troglodyte tech. We can do so much better. Both Delta Current
Control and Spal make excellent pulse-width-modulated (PWM) fan controllers that
can ramp fan speed much like factory computer controllers. These controllers are a
great way to emulate new-car cooling technology in your muscle car, and the
controllers are fairly reasonable. DC Control sells a basic box for around $150, or
you can get a Spal PWM controller for less than $140 from The Fan Man.
While searching for controllers, we ran across Dave Chapmans Hollister Road Co.,
which offers a very nice three-relay fan control system thats simple and affordable.
The best version of this system is the three-relay kit that comes with two
temperature sensors. The low-speed sensor triggers the fan at 180 degrees F, while
the second sensor engages the high-speed side of the fan at 195 degrees F. All
three relays are ganged together for easy mounting.
We cant emphasize enough the importance of a high-output alternator to supply the
amperage necessary to spin this fan. Plan on using a 100-amp output alternator to
ensure theres plenty of power for all your muscle cars electrical devices. (We
covered high-output alternators in the Sept. 11 installment of Junkyard Builder.) Dig
up a good Mark VIII fan, and then you too can chill out.
Task: replacing the mechanical cooling fan with a sucker electric fan. I was not
content with the small 12" fans marketed by the Triumph vendors, but there is
a clearance problem between the radiator and the front frame rail (about 3.5").
So choice of a fan to mount behind the radiator is crucial.
After much experimenting, I found that the PermaCool 16" 'standard' fan fits perfectly. The fan is
just the perfect diameter so that I could use machine screws to mount it directly to the edge of the
radiator. No need to make complicated straps, it is a simple bolt-on installation. I would advise
NOT to use the through-the-radiator straps. These fans are heavy, and in time, will bend the fins
and the fan will sag. The fan kit is supplied with some anti-vibrations pads, and I would suggest
.using them
The only mounting problem with this fan is that the radiator has to be removed to install or remove
the fan. The 16" fan costs $81.99 from Jegs (800/345-4545), part #771-19126. This fan blows 2250
CFM and draws 8 amps. Yeah, its a monster, guranteed to cool the hottest TR. You can see a
picture of it at http://www.jegs.com/ and then find your way to the cooling section of the products
.page
Further more, the crankshaft extension has to be cut down to 1.25", and the crankshaft pulley bolt
shorted to 2.5". Rethread the bolt (18 threads/inch) to fit the crankshaft end Reinstall crankshaft
extension. Be sure to replace the dowels between the crankshaft pulley damper and the extension.
.Safety wire the bolt or use lock-tite
I did not want to use the cheesy thermoelectric switches often sold with electric fan kits, as I have
heard a lot of bad stories (grounding, etc) about them. So while the radiator was out, I took it down
to the local radiator shop and had them install at the bottom of the radiator a drain tap and a mount
to which I screwed in a BMW thermoelectric switch. This switch is designed to come on at 91C
(195 F), and seems to switch off at 82C (180F, when my thermostat closes). The BMW part
(#1VT14AA231F1384272BMW 91c V2T) is pretty expensive, but only $25 from NAPA (part
?#ECH-FS198). But what do you expect of BMW parts
I followed a wiring diagram prepared by fellow Scion and Triumph List member Dan Masters
(danmas at aol dot com). This was quite easy to rig up, using a small 3-position DPDT switch I
found at Radio Shack. This switch is tiny, and easy to hide - no need to drill holes in the dashboard,
I mounted it just beneath the steering wheel, on the small metal lip behind the dash board. I am a
real klutz at wiring, but this job was easy, and afterwards, I tidied up the wiring in the engine bay
with tie-wraps and those split-hoses that you can buy just for this purpose. The whole underhood
.installation looks very neat, and something you can be proud of
After installation, I backflushed the cooling system for 30 minutes using one of those nifty kits
from Pep-Boys that enable you to hook up a household garden hose to the heater hose that runs
.from the block
I dont use anti-freeze, as it never gets that cold in San Diego. Instead, I use my own special mix of
distilled water, Redline Waterwetter and PenCool (used to be NalCool). How does it work? Rags
has to sit in traffic in at least 85F air temperature for 30 mins before the fan switches on. The fan
switches on at the advertized 195F (the 3/4 mark on my temperature gauge), and in less that 60
seconds, the temperature drops to below 180F when the thermostat closes and the fan switchs off.
.Thats what I call cooling! The fan has never come on when the car is moving
The real benefit of this mod is that under acceleration, I dont hear the mechanical fan anymore, just
that meaty sounding six screaming up front, pounding through a 2" pipe to the Ansa mufflers.
!Ahhhh, life is good
1) the relay can be mounted any where that is convenient. The only criteria
that is of any concern (other than protection from physical damage) is the
TOTAL length of wire from the Brown (or Brown/White) wire to the relay and
then from the relay to the fan motor. This length should be kept short, but
as long as you use the proper size wire, it is not really important (assuming
you don't intend to mount the relay in the trunk!). In my car, I bought a
relay with a metal mounting tab, bent the tab and mounted the relay under one
of the screws that fasten the existing relays to the bracket under the hood.
2) connect to a Brown/White wire in a car with an ammeter (this is so that the
ammeter will read correctly), or to a Brown wire in a car with a voltmeter.
3) the fuse in the lead to the Brown (or Brown/White) wire MUST be placed as
close to the connection to the Brown (or Brown/White) wire as possible. If
you do this, the remainder of the wire will be protected, and routing becomes
less critical. HINT: If you detest un-necessary splices as much as I do, you
might try this trick. I buy heavy duty in-line fuse holders from the auto
parts store and modify them to suit my purpose. I cut the leads off to about
an inch and strip off all the insulation. Next, I remove the fuse contacts,
and the wire, from the holder. I place the contacts in a vise and spread the
wire strands out in a fan shape. Using a pair of needle nose pliers, I pull
the center strand out of the crimp on the contact. After a few of the center
strands are removed, the rest come out easily. Once all the wires are
removed, I spread the crimp just a little, and insert the end of the wire I
wish to use and recrimp, followed by soldering. This way, I get an in-line
fuse holder with the correct color coded wires, and each wire long enough to
reach the rest of the circuit without splices.
4) The wires used from the Brown (or Brown/White) wire to the relay and from
the relay to the fan should be sized to carry the rated current of the fan
with a little margin. I would use 12 guage -- good for 20 amps -- unless you
are using a real horse of a fan.
5) the fuse MUST BE NO LARGER than the current rating of the wires used in 4).
6) if you wish to use the optional indicating light, you will have to use the
same size wire for the light as you use for the fan motor to ensure that it is
properly fused (or add a second fuse in the wire to the light, sized to suit
the wire gauge. This fuse will have to be sized not larger than the current
rating of the wire, and placed as close to the relay as possible). If you
prefer, you could connect the indicating lamp to terminal 85, along with the
other two wires. Thgis way, no special precations are required, other than
listed in 8) below. Wired this way, the light will tell you that the fan is
"supposed" to be on, but not that it is actually running. The fuse could be
blown and you would still get an ON indication, even though the fan is not
powered.
7) When you connect to the Green and the Purple wires, you can use ANY Green
or ANY Purple wire you find, whichever of these wires is most convenient for
you to connect to. Same for the Brown (or Brown/White) wire.
8) use at least 14 guage wire for the connections to the Green and Purple
wires, and you won't need to use a fuse in these leads, as the Green and
Purple wires are already fused.
9) You must use a DPDT switch; otherwise, if you have the switch in the ON
position and the thermostat switch comes on, the effect is the same as having
the ignition key on. In this instance, power would be backfed from the purple
wire through the two switches and then back to the Green wire. Since the
green wire is connected to the ignition switch, all the loads fed from the
ignition switch via the Green wires would be powered. By using a DPDT switch,
wired as shown, the green wire is disconnected from the thermostat switch when
the DPDT switch is in the ON position.
10) there is a problem with the labeling of terminals on relays. They are not
consistant in how the 87 terminals are labeled. If you buy a relay with four
terminals, there is no problem, but if you buy one with five terminals, the
"center" terminal may be labeled 87, or 87a or 87b, depending on who makes it.
Sometimes the center terminal, regardless of its label, is a "normally closed"
or NC, contact ie, connected to terminal 30 when the relay is OFF, and
disconnected when the relay is ON. The only way to be sure is to look at the
diagram on the side of the relay case to see that both the center and the
other 87 (or 87a or 87b) terminal are closed only when the relay is energized.
Luckily, it is very rare to find a relay with the center terminal as a NC in
an auto parts store (I have to special order them, and about half the time, I
get the wrong ones!).
11) if you buy a relay with four terminals, and still wish to use the optional
indicating light, just connect the wire to the light to the same terminal (87)
as the fan motor. The same requirments in 6) still apply.
12) the physical configuration of the DPDT switch as shown in the connection
diagram is not important -- only that it looks like that shown when the wiring
is completed. Wired one way, the fan will be ON with the switch handle in the
down position: wired the other way, the fan will be ON with the switch handle
in the up position.
13) if you wish to eliminate the ON-AUTO switch, just connect the thermostat
switch to the green wire, and eliminate the other wire to the relay terminal
85.
14) if you buy the ON-AUTO switch at an auto parts store, it will almost
certainly have three positions - ON-OFF-AUTO. If the third position is
undesirable, you will have to go to an electronics store, such as Radio Shack.
The only problem with this is that their switches usually don't suit an
automobile very well, from an asthetics standpoint. You might want to hide it
under the dash somewhere.
This is all I can think of right now. If you have any questions, let me know.
We thought it would be nice to post up a quick guide on how to wire up a Mishimoto Electric fan.
We hope this is helpful and can answer any questions!
MATERIALS NEEDED:
- 1 x 5 post relay
- 2 x 10 AMP fuses
- 15 feet of 18 gauge wire
Instructions:
Run a 12 volt positive wire to the relay (put a 10amp fuse in this wire). The other side of this relay
is the positive connection to the fan.
The ground from your fan can be grounded to the body of the car. Make sure its a good ground.
Find an accessory wire to tap off of. This is a wire that becomes hot when the key is in the on
position.
Tap a wire off of the found accessory and run it to the switching side of the relay (put a 10amp fuse
in this wire), and then ground the other side
of the switch.
Wiring your fans like this will make them turn on when the key is in the on position (when the
engine is running).
Please refer to the wiring diagram below.
**Please see the 2nd post of this thread- I had to change my wiring setup due to the fact that
once the engine is cut, coolant flow is stopped and with constant power to the switch- the
coolant temp won't decrease for at least 5 minutes- which is just too long**
Chiming in here with my modified electric fan setup. I've used the thread below for wiring up my electric
fan using the Aux fan wiring.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=210783
Short story: I followed that on how hook directly to the Aux fan wiring with a
80C switch. Easy to do, simple and not a lot of electrical cabling. I was running
a SPAL 16'' Puller as my primary cooling fan for a few months.
This worked like a charm- except under the ONE scenario: If the temp switch
kicks on the fan at 80C and starts cooling, and I was ready to park or turn off
the car and the fan was still on- the fan would obviously lose power. IF I had to
turn the car back on for whatever reason (maybe to move the car after you
parked it) and the temp was still over 80C- the startup of the ignition I would
blow the stock 30A aux fan fuse every time. I found out that this can happen
when switching from the +12v of the battery (ignition ON but engine OFF) to
the new +14.3v you get from turning over the engine and obtaining the power
bump from running from the Alternator. By the way- I never blew the in-line
fuse I added from the +12v of the fan- only the 30A fuse in the fusebox.
Also- which is a great point on why I modified it- was that say you are getting
ready to pull into your destination, you might be idling a bit to find parking etc
etc and the car gets up to 80C. The fan kicks on and might still be running
when you turn the car off. Which is fine. But if you need to turn the car back on
again, the thermo switch on the thermostat- which goes to the DME- will tell
the DME that the engine coolant is too hot and don't supply fuel. So you get
this hesitation when trying to start up. I can't get a definite temperature of
what the thermostat DME switch reads that tells the engine that it is too hot. I
only found out what resistance it reads at certain temps. If you know- I would
really be interested what this threshold is.
Anyway- my plan was to remove the fan from the Aux wiring fuses/relay and
run power directly to a new relay that has constant +12v w/o the ignition on.
First tried to wire up a new relay and fuse to the stock fusebox. Wasted my
time since I couldn't find the correct female blade inserts for the fusebox.
Decided to do a completely standalone setup.
Here is what I used and how I wired it in:
Hella 30A Relay and weather proof wiring harness $15
- Relays are pretty much all the same from what I found. Went with this one
since I decided on mounting it stand-alone from everything else and tried to
make the install clean. Sure you can use a standard Autozone 30A relay, but
finding the wiring harnesses are hard to find locally and at the end it will
probably be a pretty messy wiring job. Installed mine on the side of the fuel
pump relay cover.
Relay Wiring
Terminal 30: +12v (12GA wire) constant from stock accessory fusebox (with Inline 30A fuse) Updated- switched this lead from the constant 12v+ to the
Constant OFF/Ignition ON 12v+ accessory lead
Terminal 85: Ground (12GA wire)
Terminal 86: Trigger switch (14/16GA wire) I'm using my 80C thermo switch
with a manual override switch that I used a extra fog light switch and mounted
it next to the defrost/hazards (to turn on the fan under 80C if needed) You
need to tap into a 7.5 fuse that has constant +12v so fuses 21, 22 and 23 are
always on. I tapped fuse 21 (not 10 as pictured) since it is used for other
switches on the car. Run a wire from here, to the thermo switch. Then a second
wire back to terminal 86. Updated- switched this to the another Ignition ON 7.5
fuse (Used #19 Mirror Control)
Terminal 87: Fan +12v (12GA wire) used an in-line fuse here to protect the fan.
Mounted it near the fusebox for easy access.
Terminal 87A: NOT USED (unless you need power to something that is ALWAYS
on and OFF when the fan is ON)
Notes:
Make sure you invest in good butt connectors, crimp (or solder if you prefer)
and electrical wrap. I hate glossy electrical tape, so I purchased some premium
wire wrap.
Thats about it! It's not the most complex job, but it gets it done and doesn't
rely on anything stock. Hopefully this will help out people who might see the
same issues. There are a few threads around that I've read about their fans
blowing fuses left and right. This should be the solution. Good luck!!
__________________
Relay Test
Easy step by step procedure to test an automotive relay, this information
pertains to all relay controlled circuits.
Difficulty Scale: 4 of 10
Step 1 - A relay is used to control (switch) a high amperage electrical circuit
with a low amperage one, for example a radiator fan can pull up to 25 amps
when in use, which would burn the computer circuit that controls it, a relay is
used to bridge this circuit to prevent electrical damage.
Testing Fuses
Step 3 - Many vehicles supply relay location and identification information on
the lid of the PDC. If this information is not available, check the owners manual
or Google Images
Relay Identification
Step 4 - Once the relay has been identified, gently grasp or touch the relay in
question, have a helper turn the ignition key to the on position, then crank the
engine over, the relay should click in one of the ignition switch positions. If so
the trigger circuit of the relay electrical system is working, if not continue to
next step. ( Note: If the relay clicks and the circuit is still not working there is a
good chance the contacts inside the relay have shorted.)
Terminals 86 and 85 are the primary side of the relay, which utilizes an
electromagnet to close (connect) the secondary electrical circuit inside the
relay. This electromagnet is activated by a simple power (+) and ground (-)
much like a light bulb circuit.
Terminals 87 and 30 are the secondary side of the relay which acts as the
"switch" that connects electrical current from one terminal to the other.
Terminal 87a is not widely used and does not need to be connected for
the relay to operate. 87a can be used for many different things such as relay
activation monitoring or connecting a separate circuit that uses power when
the relay is not in use.
New Relay
Step 15 - When installing the new relay be sure the orientation is correct or the
relay will not work.
These accessories can range from the main computer PCM (powertrian control
module), radiator fan, fuel pump, door locks etc. There are two tests that
should be considered when dealing with a relay problem, is the problem with
the relay itself or is the problem a power or ground issue. A relay is prone to
failure when used for a long periods of time (hot) or when the amperage of the
accessory has increased beyond its designed use.
A rely should be considered as two separate halves, the primary side which
utilizes an electromagnet to close the secondary electrical circuit. This
electromagnet is activated by a simple power (+) and ground (-) much like a
light bulb circuit. The second half of the relay is the "switch" that controls
power to a particular accessory like a fuel pump or ignition system.
In short, when the primary side of the relay (electromagnet) is activated, it
closes the contacts (switch) to supply power to operate the accessory.
Tools and Supplies Needed
Test light
When excessive amperage has been drawn through a relay circuit it can
cause the relay contacts to "stick" not allowing the power to be shut off to the
accessory. Example: When an ABS system motor ages it will draw excessive
amperage causing the control relay to "stick". This condition will run down the
battery until corrected.
Moister can get inside a relay hindering the relay operation.
When testing relay circuits for power, ground is accidentally contacted
causing the fuse to fail.
Removing and installing switches and instruments illumination regulator -E20-/headlight ran
The switches and instruments illumination regulator -E20- and the headlight range control regulator -E102- are located in a joint
List.
Removing
Remove light switch Chapter.
Release the 4 clips -arrows-.
Take the switches and instruments illumination regulator -E20-/headlight range control regulator -E
Installing
Install in reverse order, paying attention to the following:
Press the switches and instruments illumination regulator -E20-/headlight range control regulator Install the light switch Chapter.
Removing
Switch off ignition and remove ignition key.
Remove the radio set/navigation control unit
Remove screws -arrows- at centre air vents.
Remove bolt
Release retaining clips
and remove hazard warning switch
-E3--Item 4-
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Component
Nm
1
Small radio slot
1.8
Ideally, remote starters should be installed by a qualified technician because improper installation can
damage expensive vehicle control electronics. However, for someone familiar with electronics and
vehicle repair knowing how to install a remote starter in a car can save money on installation costs
and eliminate the frustration of finding a qualified installer. While this article provides some general
.instructions for wiring a remote starter, it varies by vehicle and remote starter model
1.
1
Make sure the starter you choose is compatible with your vehicle make and model. Read the box or
contact the remote starter manufacturer to determine if it is compatible with your vehicle. You will want a starter
that is compatible with your antitheft system and secure.
If it is not compatible with your antitheft system, you will have to buy additional costly anti-theft
bypass modules.
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Read the installation instructions carefully. Installation instructions vary according to different brands and
models of remote starters. It is important to carefully read the installation instructions and find the wiring
diagrams for your particular starter.
If you choose a used unit or one that does not include directions, check out online instructions
before making a purchase. Make sure the website is easy to use and has complete, printable directions and
wiring diagrams that clearly show how to install a remote starter in a car.
3
Read the owners manual and repair guides for your vehicle. Become familiar with the wires in your
vehicle by looking over the manual and repair guides. Some standard wire connections include the starter,
ignition, power and accessory controls like heat and air conditioning, security or alarm system, radio and power
locks.
4
Gather all the tools and equipment you will need. Consult your manuals to determine which tools you will
need for your particular starter and vehicle. You may require a utility knife, wire cutters, wire strippers,
soldering iron and solder, electrical tape, digital multimeter, wrenches and/or screwdrivers. A digital multimeter
is recommended for testing during and after installation.
Some remote starters will come with all the necessary tools so check your box. For example,
many systems come with an LED circuit tester to find the necessary wires for installation.
It is recommended that you solder all your wires together to form better connections. If you
choose to solder you will need a soldering iron and safety glasses.
5
Decide where to put the main module and open the area. It must be in a secure, hidden location that wont
require extending the supplied wires. The usual position is inside the lower dash underneath the steering
wheel. This way you can connect directly to the ignition wiring.
Dont place it in the engine compartment or any area where it will be exposed to extreme
vibration or heat.
Possible alternative locations include spaces above the radio or glove compartment, the center
console and above the dashboard fuse box.
6
Go over the car to make sure everything is working properly prior to installation. Check the battery,
switches, lights and other systems. If any electrical systems are not working correctly then you should fix them
prior to beginning your installation.
7
Remove the seat where the control module will be installed if possible.Removing the seat will give you
more room to work while installing the system. If you cannot remove the seat then slide the chair all the way
backwards.
Disconnect the battery. When working on the electrical system of your vehicle it is safer to disconnect the
battery to prevent any shocks. To test the wires you will need to have the battery connected but disconnect it
while you are soldering wires together to be safe.
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1. 1
Remove the panel covering under the steering wheel. Use a screwdriver to remove the panel covering the
underside of the steering column. This is where you will access the wires to connect the starter.
o
If the panel is not attached with screws then you might require a socket set to remove nuts
securing the panel.
Depending on your vehicle you may also need to remove the lower steering column cover to
access the ignition switch harness. If your vehicle has an anti theft system, it is likely that you will need to
remove this cover.
If you choose to connect your remote starter to other functions such as the door locks and
overhead lights then you will need to remove the kick panel as well. This is located on the lower left-hand
corner of the drivers foot box.
2
Connect all your wires properly. It is very important that you securely connect all your wires. Loose wires
can cause injury or major property damage. It is best to solder all your connections to ensure that they are
strong.
To connect wires first strip away about 1/2-1 inch (1-2.5 cm) of the coating around the wire. If
there are two wires then split them and insert the attaching wire between them. Wrap the attaching wire around
the stripped wire and solder them together using the soldering iron. Once they are securely attached, wrap
electrical tape around the connection and use ties to hold them in place. Lightly tug on the wires to make sure
they do not become loose.
Connect the ground wire. The ground wire will be part of the starter and is often black. Connect this by
screwing through the ring terminal into a clean, unpainted metal surface in the kick panel area. This wire is
very important for the proper functioning of your vehicle.
Because it is so important it is better to connect the ground wire to a location in the kick panel
4
Locate the 12V constant wire on the vehicle and attach the power wire of your system to it. The 12V
constant wire is the one attached to the battery and is usually found in the bundle of wires attached to the
ignition switch. You can locate this wire by reading the vehicles manual and repair guides or testing with the
multimeter.
If you see any yellow or otherwise noticeable wires, do not touch them! These are the airbag
wires and must not be tampered with or unplugged.
To test using the multimeter attach it to the wire when the car is off and the key is out of the
a higher number of amps and attach your primary power wire to this one. If your starter has two power wires,
attach the second power wire on the starter to the additional 12V constant wire.
Use a soldering iron to connect all wires. This keeps them from falling apart and potentially
5
Find and attach the accessory wire. The accessory wire supplies power to heat and air conditioning controls
and supplies 12V when the key is in the first (accessory) position. Attach the accessory wire on the starter to
the accessory wire on the vehicle.
To find this wire attach the multimeter while the key is in the off position. The voltage should be
zero in this position. Turn the key into the first position but no farther. If you have found your accessory wire,
the voltage will now read around 12V (11.5-14V). Check that the voltage goes to zero while you are cranking
the engine (it will read 12V before and after cranking).[1]
Some vehicles might have more than one accessory wire to control all the functions. In this
6
Locate and connect the ignition wire. The ignition wire supplies power to the fuel pump and ignition system
and will be attached to the ignition switch under the steering wheel. The vehicle manual or repair guides should
tell you which color this wire should be. Connect the ignition output wire on the remote starter to
Once you have located this wire you can confirm its identity using the multimeter. Attach
the multimeter to the wire while it is connected to a good ground wire and it should show no voltage. Turn the
key to the first position and the voltage should still read zero. In the second position, before starting the car,
there should be a voltage displayed on your multimeter. If there is, then you have identified the correct wire, if
not then you must try again to locate your ignition wire.
Some vehicles have more than one ignition wire. If so, use a relay to connect all additional
ignition wires.
7
Find and attach the starter wire. This will only show a voltage while the vehicle is being cranked, or turned
on. It supplies power to the starter solenoid when turning your vehicle on. Connect the starter wire output on
your remote starter to this wire by soldering the wires together.
Locate a potential starter wire to test with the multimeter. The voltage should be zero when the
key is in all positions except while cranking the engine. If you think you have found the wire, start with the key
in position two and then crank the engine. The voltage should read zero while the key is in position two, show
12V while cranking and then go back to zero if you release the key before the engine turns over.[2]
8
Connect the parking light and brake wires. The brake wire is usually found at the switch harness above the
brake pedal but can also be found along with the parking light wires in the kick panel on the way to the rear of
the vehicle. Connect these wires to the parking light and brake output wires on the remote starter.
To find the brake wire press the brake pedal down while the car is on and use the multimeter to
test the wire. The multimeter should read between 11.5-14V while the brake is pressed down.
The brake wires in particular are important to connect because they prevent someone from
driving off in your car while it is running from the remote starter.
9
Locate and connect the tachometer wire to the tachometer output wire on the remote sensor. This is
required by the remote starter so that it disengages the starter once the car has started. It can usually be found
in the engine distributor or coil pack.
To locate the tachometer wire look for the engine distributor by following the spark plug wires to
where they junction at a distributor and find a small wire harness which should have a tachometer reference.
Alternatively see the owners manual to determine the recommended tachometer wires location.
10
Connect any security, anti-theft and other optional components. Some systems might have additional
steps for connecting to the door locks of the vehicle. Others might need a special system for getting around the
anti-theft system that exists in your car. As always consult the manual or manufacturer of your remote sensor to
find out which extra features your system has and where you should connect them.
To connect to the door locks you can locate the wires in the drivers side door. You may need an
external relay, of which there are many different kinds. However the four most common include positive trigger,
negative trigger, reverse polarity and multiplex door lock systems. Consult your vehicle manual or repair guides
to determine which system your vehicle uses.
11
Use a relay to connect additional wires if there is more than one wire for power, accessory or the
starter. A relay allows multiple wires to be connected together. There are many different designs, shapes and
sizes but they all perform the same basic function. Connect the wires to the relay by wrapping them around the
pins.
12
Secure wires with tie wraps or screws to keep them away from moving parts. This will protect the wires
and make the installation look tidy and neat.
13
Connect the batter and test to see that all the functions work. Test your remote start and keyless entry
systems as well as your brakes and brake lights to make sure everything has been connected properly and is
working. If something fails to work, go back and check all the wires you have connected to see what went
wrong.
14
Replace the kick panel and the panel covering the ignition switch. Push the remote sensor and the wiring
into the compartment and cover with the panel. Screw (or ratchet) the panel into place.