A Philological Study of The Ariya-Sacca As "Noble Truths" - Dhamma Wheel

A philological study of the ariya-sacca as Noble Truths - Dhamma Wheel
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A philological study of the ariya-sacca as

Noble Truths
by ancientbuddhism Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:26 pm
P
Ino1982, K.R. Norman published a paper on The Four Noble Truths, a complete philological
s
examination
of the topic with the scope to examine the grammar and syntax of something
t
which, although fundamental to Buddhist doctrine, has never been satisfactorily explained at a
linguistic level. Truly a thorough study of the Tathgatas doctrine on dukkha, with and
without the superlative ariya sacca.
ancientbuddhism
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011
12:53 pm
Location: Cyberia
With reference to ariya-sacca, Norman mentions in A Philological Approach to Buddhism

(p.16):
Take for example, the phrase noble truth, which I mentioned a few minutes ago. It
has become a commonplace to talk about the four noble truths, and this is a perfectly
acceptable translation of the compound ariya-sacca: ariya means noble and sacca means
truth, so ariya-sacca means noble truth. This translation is so common and so fixed in
our minds, that it seems almost like blasphemy to have to point out that not only is this
not the only possible translation, but it is in fact the least likely of all the possibilities.
If we look at the commentators we find that they knew this very well. They point out
that the compound can have a number of meanings. It can mean truth of the noble
one, truth of the noble ones, truth for a noble one, i.e. truth that will make one
noble, as well as the translation noble truth so familiar to us. This last possibility,
however, they put at the bottom of the list of possibilities, if they mention it at all. My
own feeling is that it is very likely that the truth of the noble one (the Buddha) is the
correct translation, although we must never lose sight of the fact that in Indian
literature multiple meanings are very often intended, so that it is not always possible to
say that there is a single correct meaning.
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22867&p=327697[3/8/2558 0:16:59]
And then Normans paper Why are the Four Noble Truths Called Noble? (1990) gives a concise
summary of the place of ariya sacca.
All of this may seem much over nothing, like Gandalf's questioning of Bilbo's simple good
morning. However, what I have found useful in these papers is at least caution on how critical
a rendering pi idiom into English (or another) language is.
Another page to read is one Dmytro had posted on this topic here on DW
Who are you? said the Caterpillar.
Alice replied rather shyly, II hardly know, sir, just at presentat least I knew who I was when I
got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.
LEWIS CARROLL
Secure your own mask before assisting others. NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)
A Handful of Leaves
o
p
paul
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue May 31,
2011 11:27 pm
Location: Australia
Re: A philological study of the ariya-sacca as Noble

Truths
by paul Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:49 pm
P
o
-Extract
from "Aryan', Google:
s
"The
t name Iran, Iranian is itself equivalent
to Aryan, where Iran means "land of the Aryans,"[12]

[12][14][28][29][30][31][32] and has been in use since Sassanid times[30][31]"
o
p
Nicolas
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014
8:59 pm
Location: Somerville, MA,
USA

Truths
by Nicolas Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:48 pm
P
o
(Why
not post on Dmytro's thread?)
s
Leigh
Brasington calls them the "Four
t
Ennobling Truths".
o
p

Truths
by daverupa Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:10 pm
P
o
s
ancientbuddhism wrote:
t
They point out that the compound can have a number of meanings. It can mean
daverupa
Posts: 5288
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011
6:58 pm
1. truth of the noble one,

2. truth of the noble ones,
3. truth for a noble one, i.e. truth that will make one noble, as well as the translation
4. noble truth so familiar to us.
Nicolas wrote:
Leigh Brasington calls them the 3. "Four Ennobling Truths".
I tend to prefer 3. as well; 1. & 2. both seem to me to be synonyms for *buddha-sacca, which
can be understood in the same way that 'buddha-dhamma' can be understood: the Buddha's
Dhamma which he discovered but did not invent & the Buddha's Truth which he discovered but
did not invent.
So I'll say "Buddhadhamma", or "the Dhamma", or "the ennobling truths" to refer to this.
ancientbuddhism wrote:
However, what I have found useful in these papers is at least caution on how critical a rendering
pi idiom into English (or another) language is.
Indeed! Getting foreign language idioms into one's wheelhouse is the bee's knees, though a hard
nut to crack...
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit,
development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way
that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience,
harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one
protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
o
p

Truths
by ancientbuddhism Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:53 am
P
o ennobling truths (p. 172) does fit with the
the
s
Four
Noble Truths Called Noble? @ p. 174:
t
ancientbuddhism
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011
12:53 pm
Location: Cyberia
closing possibility Norman gives in Why are the
There is, in fact, at least one further possibility, where the first element is also taken
in the genitive, but as a simple possessive the truths of, possessed by, the noble
ones. This could be a reference to the Buddhists as a whole, as these would then be
truths held by the Buddhists, as opposed to anything held by the Jains or the
Brhmaas.
I personally have encountered resistance from Western students whenever noble truth is
attach to the doctrine on dukkha. It has a dogmatic tone that anti-traditional hippies dont
like. And to rather get the edifying information of Dhamma across, I leave it out of some
materials, talks and discussions.
Who are you? said the Caterpillar.
Alice replied rather shyly, II hardly know, sir, just at presentat least I knew who I was when I
got up this morning, but I think I must have been changed several times since then.
LEWIS CARROLL
Secure your own mask before assisting others. NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)
A Handful of Leaves
T
alan
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Sep 30,
2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach,
Fl.

Truths
by alan Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:43 am
P
o
Don't
do that. Those who want to be ennobled will probably be the best students.
s
downplay
Dukkha, the message will never be properly understood anyway.
t
And if you
o
p
chownah
Posts: 3649
Joined: Wed Aug 12,
2009 2:19 pm

Truths
by chownah Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:01 am
P
o not call it the buddha sanctioned overview
Why
s
chownah
t
and introduction?
o
p
sphairos
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon Jun 21,
2010 4:37 am

Truths
by sphairos Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:35 pm
P
o
Those
issues are explored at length in P. Harvey's
s
and
t translations and commentaries to them)
publications (his "Introduction to Buddhism"
How good and wonderful are your days,

How true are your ways?
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