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Home
Biology
Plants & Animals
July 3, 2013
A chimp-pig hybrid origin for humans?
Jul 03, 2013 by John Hewitt
phys.org/news/2013-07-chimp-pig-hybrid-humans.html
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have been a male boar or pig (Sus scrofa) with a female chimp (Pan troglodytes), and the offspring would
have been nurtured by a chimp mother among chimpanzees (shades of Tarzan!). The physical evidence for
this is convincing, as you can discover for yourself with a trip over to macroevolution.net.
When I asked McCarthy if he could give a date estimate for the hybridization event, he said that there are a
couple broad possibilities: (1) It might be that hybridization between pigs and apes produced the earliest
hominids millions of years ago and that subsequent mating within this hybrid swarm eventually led to the
various hominid types and to modern humans; (2) separate crosses between pigs and apes could have
produced separate hominids (and there's even a creepy possibility that hybridization might even still be
occurring in regions where Sus and Pan still seem to come into contact, like Southern Sudan).
This latter possibility may not sound so far-fetched after you read the riveting details suggesting that the origin
of the gorilla may be best explained by hybridization with the equally massive forest hog. This hog is found
within the same habitat as the gorilla, and shares many uncommon physical features and habits. Furthermore,
well-known hybridization effects can explain many of the fertility issues and other peculiarities of gorilla
physiology.
It is not yet clear if or when genetic data might support, or refute, our hybrid origins. The list of anatomical
specializations we may have gained from porcine philandering is too long to detail here. Suffice it to say,
similarities in the face, skin and organ microstructure alone are hard to explain away. A short list of differential
features, for example, would include, multipyramidal kidney structure, presence of dermal melanocytes,
melanoma, absence of a primate baculum (penis bone), surface lipid and carbohydrate composition of cell
membranes, vocal cord structure, laryngeal sacs, diverticuli of the fetal stomach, intestinal "valves of
Kerkring," heart chamber symmetry, skin and cranial vasculature and method of cooling, and tooth structure.
Other features occasionally seen in humans, like bicornuate uteruses and supernumerary nipples, would also
be difficult to incorporate into a purely primate tree.
McCarthy has done extensive research into the broader issues, and shortcomings, of our currently incomplete
theory of evolution. As the increasing apparent, magnificent, speed with which morphological change can
occur continues to present itself for us to comprehend, the standard theory of random mutation followed by
slow environmental selection, seems to stall. In my own opinion, female choice undoubtedly provides much of
the functional "speed-up" we observe, but other mechanisms of mutation, or pathways for acquired
characteristics to be fed back to the gonads (through retroviral transfer?), now need to be considered anew.
The role of hybridization in driving morphological change, as McCarthy has observed time and time again,
particularly in his studies of avian species (Oxford University Press, 2006), may be the most powerful
mechanism of all.
Follow-up story: Human hybrids: a closer look at the theory and evidence
phys.org/news/2013-07-chimp-pig-hybrid-humans.html
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Jul 11, 2013: Jimmy Kimmel Live - Human Species Created From Pigs and Chimps
Explore further: Chimps use touches and noisy gestures when trying to get another chimps attention,
researcher finds
view popular
3.7 /5 (161 vote s)
2013 Phys.org
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Display comments:
newestnumber
first variation among species of a North American group of
prickly
pear humpback
cacti (nopales)
showed
that the most
widespread species encountered are of hybrid origin.
US studies
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widespread species ...
lonewolfmtnz
Aug 31, 2013
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3.9two-hour
A
/ 5 (16) Jul
drive
03,from
2013
the French coast, Paris sets up an artificial seashore on the banks of
Ithe
would
Seinesay
each
thatsummer
this wasand
an while
April the
fools
beach
joke may
evenbe
though
fake, it's
thenot
seagulls
April,overhead
but he seems
turn out
serious.
to be
real. and tigers have the same number of chromosomes.
Lions
Chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans have 48, and I've never heard of a cross between any of them.
Pigs
have 38
and chimpanzees
have
46.
'Walking'
shark
discovered in
Indonesia
A cross between them seems very unlikely.
Aug 30, 2013
Hard to believe
A new species of shark that "walks" along the seabed using its fins as tiny legs has been
Report
discovered in eastern Indonesia, an environmental group said Friday.
TheGhostofOtto1923
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of the same ilk that my claims were inconsistent with one tenet or another of accepted theory....Be that as
it may, such objections weighed increasingly on the mind of my editor. Eventually, after the book had been
under contract for nearly a year, he requested that we terminate our contract"
Report
jsdarkdestruction
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Claudius
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This argument will get attention due to sensationalism, it will then be discredited by the public for
the same reason.
Why is it so repulsive? Pigs are extremely intelligent animals as are chimps. Pigs respond to affection and
verbal commands when raised as pets. Their behavior in pens, an unnatural environment, is no indication of
their nature. Modern humans exhibit similar behavior when forced into crowded and competitive
circumstances. I now have another reason not to eat them- it may be construed as cannibalistic.
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Urgelt
But doesn't that go beyond the constraints of the dense aether model? The AWT can only model the DNA
using uncertainty.
Report
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Koolokamba
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them.
Pigs have 38 and chimpanzees have 46.
A cross between them seems very unlikely.
Hard to believe
Well analysing!
Report
meerling
No. You're wrong, Gmr. He has it all worked out in detail and documented. Take a look at what he's done
before you just blow him off.
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Sinister1811
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There are very few crossing capable animals wher the resulting chromosome number differs - but only by 2 at
most. And those are almost exclusively sterile. A jump from 38 to 46 seems extremely unlikely in the
timeframe he suggests.
Even if we posit that both species started out with a similar number of chromosomes and then somehow
humans aquired more in time that makes the mentioned 'backcrossing' even more unlikley.
But McCarthy seems to have fallen prey to the idea that convergent evolution necessarily means "of common
stock" - which isn't so.
Report
natello
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exceptional.
You mean like, say, a Jack Russel vs a teddy bear, or trouser leg?
And if you know ANYTHING about bonobos, well, lock up your Jack Russells, that's all i'm saying..
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Valik
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This is one more indication that humans are a domesticated species, of living amidst technology in the
unnatural social structure of the tribal dynamic. Our development and interaction is best understood from this
perspective. We are distinctly unnatural.
Report
TheGhostofOtto1923
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natello
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@SmokedBort: You refer to a diversification, I think, as hippos are the whales closest living species. That is
happening all the time.
Report
Telekinetic
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Smithder
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Unfortunately, there is apparent anatomical similarity between pigs and most of what you'll actually find on
many dating web sites. I don't plan on advancing any new hypotheses because of it.
Report
Smithder
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AGAIN WTF does that have to do with your link?? EXPLAIN yourself.
Report
evercurious
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Nowhere is there a suggestion that humans have been mating or hybridising with swine.
Sorry nowhere in the article is there a suggestion that bonobos have been mating or hybridising with swine
either. Try again.
Report
MrVibrating
Precisely.
Besides, i've heard puppies are more like the real thing...
Report
Smithder
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komone
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Google it.
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MrVibrating
I'm familiar with the idea, if skeptical. Again though, you'd need to go through all of these morphological
anomalies - things we share with pigs but not other apes - and invoke different explanations for each.
McCarthy does mention the aquatic ape theory, if only to note that his neatly obviates and surpasses it.
Of course the ultimate arbiters of this will be paleoanthropologists, down the line. Maybe they'll hit a
taxonomic wall that only a hybrid could scale. Or maybe they'll dredge up an aquatic ape off the coast
somewhere..
AAT tho remains a kind of 'god of the gaps' hypothesis, whereas McCarthy's is offering a tangible alternative.
It's also the more wickedly, deliciously subversive of the two.. For some reason i get the impression THAT
should appeal to you...?
Report
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Smithder
And, lol, i was being sarcastic but seriously? Animals that root DO have cartilaginous snouts! Not only are
you suggesting such adaptations are futile but also that we had an ancestor under pressure to get on all fours
and rummage with its face in the dirt? Was this before or after Captain Seaman (oops, i meant sea-man)?
Report
MrVibrating
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betterexists
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Smithder
@betterexists
I have read that chimps have extremely well developed capacity for language, but no vocal chords.
Pigs on the other hand have vocal chords and are very vocally communicative but I have not read of any
attempt to demonstrate language - perhaps we do not want our food to have a conversation with us or
understand what it is screaming before we kill it.
Why so many languages? - try 'Founder Effect'
Report
Smithder
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figments, and do not reflect any underlying pattern of evolutionary descent (as is the assumption under ST),
then they certainly cannot be used to measure rates. So it becomes nonsense to talk about an organism having
the greatest rate. " E McCarthy -Private communication 2013
Report
Sean_W
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context. A population which has migrated north and invested the effort over hundreds of generations to
develop traits which aid survival in those climes, might naturally resist incursion into their gene pool by
individuals who would mitigate these adaptations.
But the interlopers would have much to gain for their offspring by borrowing from this pool.
Report
VendicarE
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Sex is enjoyable BECAUSE reproduction is the most important thing we can do as animals. We are guided
by the specifics of this desire. Certainly some of it is pathological, but maybe far less than we are led to
believe.
I think homosexuality for instance is an epigenetic response to overpopulation which would explain its
prevalence in cities. And then there is this
http://aftermathn...rothels/
-Why so popular unless there is a genetic reason for it?
Report
TheGhostofOtto1923
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report in New Scientist about 3-4 years ago (i recall taking the article to a friends for discussion). As such
you may disregard the claim for now, however the point kind of still stands in that there's numerous sources
describing their mutation rate as being 'average' - this despite 500my of outward stasis.
Also i didn't mean to imply a hybridisation link - merely the point that the rate of genetic change and
morphology are perhaps only loosely correlated.
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MrVibrating
Right. Except by marrying out. Or non-consensual sex. Or 'laying with animals'. Or incest. Or adultery. Hell,
there's even solemn restrictions on marital sex. In fact rabbinic law associates our very libido with "yetzer
hara" - the evil inclination. Etc.
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I've wondered in the past why judeophobia's so prevalent amongst gay folks, but you seem to have gone
some way towards explaining that here... kudos.
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TheGhostofOtto1923
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Yes, any and all flavors of non-procreative sex were the most serious of sins BECAUSE the mandate to
outgrow the enemy and replace battle losses faster, is the most important. Because the tribes which weren't
as good at this as their neighbors, were annihilated.
Your book writers were the first to record this successful formula for conquest. Later on, Romans added the
NT which enabled it to be used to consolidate entire regions. Then came Islam.
Report
TheGhostofOtto1923
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Wassamatter opentootlite, something about the direction of this thread you find objectionable?
the high point of his week is down-voting everyone on the forum. Have pity.
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grondilu
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books cannot be rewritten. But this fact does mean they can be disproved and discredited, and in time ended.
I don't like to see buses full of schoolgirls getting firebombed or land and lives getting stolen from anybody
over the cause of religion. Does that make me sanctimonious?
But I do find it fascinating that the bible contains so much pertinent info on the human condition. It is evidence
that the ancients knew far more than we give them credit for, and this is why I like to quote scripture when
relevant, to elucidate this obvious truth.
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TheGhostofOtto1923
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I meant that this aspect is not translated in the phylogenic tree, and it can not with a binary tree.
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FainAvis
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Clearly, with all that back crossing to the chimp, the amount of pig DNA is reduced.
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FainAvis
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FainAvis
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marraco
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combination without a lot of welding, and the result won't look like some blending of the two. You might pull
this off with a beetle and a porsche of the right kind... but they share some similar support chains and
engineering.
As much as this fantasy might appeal to some minds - keep in mind that you wouldn't have a smooth blend. A
lot of it would be either or - like the Yugo/Gremlin - genes tend to use one or the other in inheritence. Rarely
both.
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TheGhostofOtto1923
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Not really. We know some cross species activity occurs. Just that carrying out a basic experiment such as
attempting cross fertalization of this kind /in vitro/ to see if any basic blastula results is apparently overlooked.
Simple thing to try - can a spermatozoa even begin the process.
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Shelgeyr
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I wonder, have you compiled a list of human differences from Pan and looked to see if these match a reptile
characteristics - loose a leg and grow a new one, lay eggs...
Somehow 'overwhelming' just doesn't seem to be the right word here.
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Kir Komrik
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time intervals are long enough and the mating is frequent enough, it does stand to reason that, probabilistically,
successful hybridization must be occurring. And if for "pig" and "chimp" then what about other species?
Report
Kir Komrik
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