Tue Jan 30 09:32:31 1996

Subject: 0061 I am new here - Beat Krummenacher

Date: 29 Jan 96 18:59:03 EST
From: Beat Krummenacher <100667.1267@compuserve.com>
Since some time I pursue the events in your forum. With this message I
would like to shortly introduce myself as a new member. Surely it is desired,
if one can get an idea of who the novice is.
I am pharmacist and I deal with alchemy in theory and practice now already
since soon 20 years. Initially I predominantly worked with plants, because
this area offers a good lead-in in alchemy. Soon I however began with the
processing of minerals and metals. At the moment my main interest lies in the
preparation of the different solvents and/or menstrua of the alchemists.
None will get round this central theme, who seriously deals with
alchemy.
During my study of newer literature about alchemy as well as through the contact
with modern alchemists, it has struck me again and again, how little the present
alchemists understand theory and practice of the old one. Sure it is
not simple to penetrate into the complex area. To it it needs patience,
perseverance, industrious study of the writings and many experiments in the
lab. It is however astonishing, how confused the sights of present
alchemists often are. One speculates and philosophizes without being
on a sound footing. This may be for the individual of course
interesting, only it will not help him. Thus especially today it is
important to bring order in the edifice of alchemy. A systematic entrance to
alchemy is necessary, should it be understandable in the modern age.
Alchemy can scientifically be pursued. With it however I do not say, that
alchemy and science are one. For alchemy predominantly deals with the
application of certain energies, which are not considered in the present
sciences. However these energies nevertheless can experimentally and
reproducibly be utilized, if one correctly alchemically works. In this sense
alchemy is science. And as each science more simply is understandable
for beginners, if one can set up on fundamental axioms, so one of my
important requests is the construction of a general axiomatics of alchemy.
I take the view, that the mechanisms, which underlie alchemy, can be clearly
described.
Strictly speaking the terminology of the alchemists of earlier centuries
likewise was an experiment to axiomatically record the natural events. The
descriptions of the alchemists fundamentally are right, if also they may
strangely
appear today. The problem is the translation of the old concepts and
symbols in concrete materials and processes according to the present
nomenclature. The experience shows, that this problem is soluble.
I have written a publication, which first treats the general theoretical bases
of alchemy. Resting on it the general practice is derived. This leads to
processes, according to which spagyric essence of supreme quality can be
manufactured. As example I have set the production of spagyric essences from
plants in the center of the writing. The spagyric manufacturing processes are
discussed, which up to now are known above all in Europe and are utilized
there. Since however until today no process exists, which uncompromisingly
and completely fulfills both the traditional as well as modern criteria of the
preparation of a pharmaceutical product, I have developed new processes, which
suffice these conditions. Thus I call spagyric essences manufactured according

to my processes complete spagyric. It is interesting from modern view, that

complete spagyric essences are producible in the industrial scale. They
furthermore are standardized and can analytically be recorded according
to modern criteria of pharmacy. I have internationally patented my processes.
If any members of the forum would have interest in manufacturing spagyric
essences for instance in the USA or to distribute existing essences, so they
should get in touch with me. Still much work lies before us. However I am
sure, that spagyric essences have a great future ahead.
Who is interested, can procure the above mentioned publication both in German
or English. In English it is obtainable under the title "Spagyric Tinctures Tradition, Preparation and Usage by Beat Krummenacher, Archives Press, Box
11218, Boulder, Colorado 80301, 1993." Particulars for the German first
edition can be ordered from me via E-Mail.
I will sign future contributions to the forum with the code name Lapis.
My address:
Beat Krummenacher, Taegertschistrasse 34a, CH-3110 Muensingen, Switzerland,
Phone / Fax 0041 31 721 78 17, E-Mail 100667.1267@compuserve.com
Sat Feb 03 16:36:00 1996
Subject: 0134 Alchemy and Electricity
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 22:33:17 -0500
From: RawnClarK
Dear Peter Van den Bossche,
Your quote begins "Le fluide electrique", and should be distinguished from
"electricity", as it is so much more. Common electricity is an example of
the
Electric Fluid, a manifestation of it.
I recommend Franz Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics" (pp.19-20, 184-189,
194-203, 233-250) for a good outline of the Theory and Practical usage of
the Electric *AND* Magnetic Fluids.
My experience has been that different metals, when they are dynamically
impregnated with said Fluids, express the Fluids in different ways. For
instance 24k gold will express an accumulation of the Electrical Fluid much
differently than will a 14k gold, or iron, or lead, etc. There are also
affinities
between the Fluids and specific metals; such as Electric with gold, and
Magnetic with Silver. My experience with metals has only been of the
practical-magical sort and not of the laboratory-Alchemy sort, so I hope
there's someone out there with a laboratory perspective!
I've applied the Fluids spagyrically to my own satisfaction, and am led to
think that they would be of essential value in a laboratory metallic Work.
Is
there anyone Working in this way? Any comments?
:) Rawn Clark
Sun Feb 04 14:52:32 1996
Subject: 0150 Lao Tzu Trismegistus?
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:45:22 -0500

From: Rawn Clark

>Todd R. Rossman
>0068 answers?, questions ...
>
>He who knows does not speak.
>He who speaks does not know.
>Block all the passages!
>Shut all the doors!
>Blunt all edges!
>Untie all tangles!
>Harmonize all lights!
>Unite the worlds into one whole!
>This is called the Mystical Whole,
>Which you cannot court after nor shun,
>Benefit nor harm, honour nor humble.
>Therefore, it is the Highest of the world.
>>>>Lao Tzu
These words remind me of the following lines from the Emerald Tablet:
"....Its power is complete if turned towards Earth.
It will separate Earth from Fire, the Subtle from the Gross.
With great Wisdom it ascends from Earth to Heaven. Again it descends to
Earth, and takes back the power of the Above and the Below.
Thus you will receive the glory of the distinctiveness (light of Lights) of
the world. All obscurity will flee from you.
This is the whole most strong strength of all strength, for it overcomes all
subtle things, and penetrates all solid things...."
:) Rawn Clark
3 Feb 96
Mon Feb 12 09:45:18 1996
Subject: 0226 Alchemy, electricity and the two fluids
Date: 11 Feb 96 13:05:53 EST
From: Beat Krummenacher
Rawn Clark wrote (2.2.96):
>My experience with metals has only been of the practical-magical sort and not
of the laboratory-Alchemy sort, so I hope there's someone out there with a
laboratory perspective! I've applied the Fluids spagyrically to my own
satisfaction, and am led to think that they would be of essential value in a
laboratory metallic Work. Is there anyone Working in this way? Any comments?<
Dear Rawn,
Your reference is very valuable. A practising alchemist exactly taken works with
both fluids. There are the invisible fluids, which trigger the alchemical
effects. The work of the alchemist in his lab serves thus the purpose to prepare
material substances so, that they become optimal carriers for the fluids. The
fabrication of the material basis for alchemical works is chemistry. The useful
materials for alchemy are ideal sources of charge for the fluids, but also the
elementary powers. You can take this remark completely in the sense of Franz
Bardon. If the materials are strongly loaded with the concealed powers, they
alchemically begin to work. The fluids can be transferred on arbitrary other

things by alchemical tinctures and essences. The healing power of correctly

manufactured more spagyric and/or more alchemical essences is based on this
energy transmission.
This points to a large advantage of the practical alchemy facing the way of the
magician (after Bardon). The magician can force the fluids in materials through
concentration with his consciousness. The magic of the water is based on it.
Indeed natural materials usually are bad sources of charge. It is thus difficult
to receive materials heartily loaded with the fluids. To improve the situation
Bardon has taught the preparation of fluidal condensers. Indeed his instructions
are still defective from the view of an alchemist. For the fluidal condensers
present no optimal carriers for the concealed energies. Thus the magician
primarily is dependent on purely consciously steered energies. Fluidal
condensers help him to better reach his purposes in the matter.
It is a fact, that matter itself owns the characteristics to attract the fluids.
No plant could grow, if it did not own the ability to attract the fluids to a
sufficient extent and to use them. However an ordinary plant is a weak source of
charge from view of alchemy, and so the usual plant tinctures also own slight
healing powers. Spagyric processes isolate now the actively charged materials
under separation of the assimilation of charge decreasing components. This is
the true meaning of the . If one owns once substances
and/or essences capable of loading, so are open two ways to strengthen the
effect still in addition:
1. The materials are digested or circulated. This procedure allows the
everywhere latently available fluids to penetrate in the materials. The purified
substances take in the concealed energies and load themselves with them. The
digestion requires a certain time and a certain temperature, because the speed
of the loading is a function of time and temperature. Alchemical tinctures are
ideal condensers for the fluids, since everything charge impeding was separated.
Because the fluids are bound in supreme concentration, alchemical essences much
more strongly work than the unprocessed materials of chemistry.
2. With magic methods the alchemical materials can be loaded likewise. The
energy density called forth through the magician is higher and directly directed
at the material. With the help of these methods the loading process can be
shortened. However in the final analysis a difference hardly exists between both
ways. For the charge density of a substance depends alone by their
characteristics to take in load.
Since the electricity regarding its polarity between minus and plus is a
manifestation of the fluids, it counts: Just as there are more or less suitable
substances for preparation of an electric condenser, there are more or less
suitable substances for preparation of an alchemical product. If you search the
, so you must find those materials, which own the supreme
charge properties after correct preparation. The final product of this work is
the philosopher's stone, the supreme concentration of fluidal energies in
material form.
An alchemist owns facing the pure magician the additional power, to transfer
fluidal powers onto other things through mediation of material substances. He
can magically work without recourse to his consciousness. By right preparatory
work materials can be received, which own the ability without affecting of the
magician from himself, to load themself with the fluids. Fundamentally an
ethical inferior man can pursue thus likewise alchemy, if he knows the right
processes.
The property of the knowledge to manufacture the philosopher's stone, means
power on all levels of existence. Because this power makes possible a large

abuse of power, the central processes of the alchemy were concealed in addition.
This also should remain henceforth so. Fortunately he will achieve however no
more successes in his practice, who breaks the law of the secrecy. There are
higher laws, which care for it, that only he may own the philosopher's stone,
who is ripe enough to responsibly use this knowledge.
As long as men are not capable to peacefully coexist on mental high levels, the
doors will remain locked to the palace of the concealed temple. But
nevertheless: In the alchemical literature all necessary processes and materials
for the great work are found clearly described. However it requires mind and
patience to discover all that scattered recorded in writing, to properly order
and thus to completely understand the process to the philosopher's stone.
Whether then the practice will be successful depends on further things,
whereupon I do not respond now.
For these reasons it is to be recommended each man striving really after higher
worlds to exercise practical alchemy. For the development inside (magic) and the
development in the exterior (alchemy) harmoniously coordinated yield the key to
the true adept. A such development is for understandable reasons much quicker
and more penetrating than the persecution of only one of the both ways. If
Bardon would have been permitted to write further books, so the fifth book would
have carried the title .
Lapis
Tue Feb 13 22:54:46 1996
Subject: 0243 Alchemy and the Bible
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:53:59 -0500
From: RawnClark
The discussion about the connection between Alchemy and the Bible (which
somehow ended up as "Alchemy and Christianity", disregarding the fact that
the Golden Calf story comes from the Torah ;) seems to be ignoring one
essential item: the Alchemical symbolism in the Torah pre-dates Christianity
AND Judaism. This symbolism is also fairly cogent and speaks of well
thought-out, complete processes -- implying that it is based upon a yet older
tradition. Judaism and Christianity, as we know them today, are, however
slightly, expressions of (at least reactions to) this ancient root, and it is
no wonder that their Sacred texts are rife with subtle and not so subtle,
Alchemical symbolism.
I very strongly urge anyone truely interested in the Alchemical parts of the
"Bible", to look to the original text, in the original language it was
written in. This means the Hebrew Torah and the Greek/Coptic New Testament.
The King James translation of the "Old Testament" (Torah) is especially
misleading. It's translation of the New Testament is equally poor,
representing more a political statement of its times than an accurate
translation. One should also look closely at the difference between the
verifyable history of the texts versus the accepted mythology of their
origins...they usually negate eachother and point to different (and equally
important) levels of inherant meaning.
Any approach to a root text is necessarily one of translation. Translation
is a process of personalization, where the original words are ingested,
digested, and then spit out anew, carrying with them the imprint of the
translator (this is true even when we read a thing in our own language!). It
is not an exact process, as is show by the number of different translations
most root texts have generated. Add to this the inevitable errors of

transcription that are evident in most re-copied ancient texts, and the odds
of an error snow-balling are astronomical!
The advice of "Question Everything" is very apt when it comes to trying to
divine Wisdom from someone else's writings. A written word, no matter how
Divinely inspired, can only encompass a small part of the answer; at best,
they may lead us to the discovery of our own answers, but only when
personalized and empowered by our questioning.
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark (rawnclark@aol.com)
13 Feb 96
Tue Feb 13 22:54:57 1996
Subject: 0244 An Experiment
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:07:11 -0500
From: RawnClark
As an outgrowth of a project I'm Working on with a friend, I came across
(blindly stumbled right into it more like) a personally healing modality. I
have
been performing this exercise daily for two and a half months now and am
amazed at its healing effects.
While it began quite simply, it quickly evolved to its present state,
patterned
after an Archaeous of Water (with Sal=physical body; Sulphur=astral body;
and Mercury=mental body):
*** Rawn's Healing Archaeous ***
1) Spend a few moments settling completely and comfortably into your
physical body.
2) Sense the *bright* energy of your asral body and consciously incorporate
its vibrant matrix into every cell of your physical body.
3) Sense your mental body and consciously incorporate its essence into
your astral matrix as it permeates your physical structure.
4) Separate your mental and asral bodies as a unit, from your physical body.
5) Observe and regulate your detached physical body's process of slowing
and normalization.
6) Shift your attention to your astral body and consciously integrate your
mental essence into its matrix.
7) Separate your mental body from your astral body.
8) Observe and regulate your detached astral body's process of slowing and
normalization.
9) Observe and regulate your independant mental body's process of
clarification.
10) Accumulate the four Elements in the appropriate regions of your mental
body, equally and with balance.
11) Re-unite your mental body with your astral body, and consciously
integrate your mental essence into your astral matrix.
12) Accumulate the four Elements in your astral body (roughly: Earth, from
hips down; Water, abdomen; Air, chest; and Fire, head), equally and with
balance. Unite them with their mental correspondents.
13) Re-unite your mental/astral body with your physical body, and
consciously integrate their energy into your physical structure.
14) Accumulate the four Elements in the appropriate regions of your physical
body, equally and with balance. Unite them with their mental/astral
correspondents.
15) After a time, release the accumulation of the Elements and resume

normal bodily consciousness.

Generally this takes me about 30 minutes to accomplish (the above is a
rough outline of the process). I've found that at least 15 minutes of having
the astral separate from the physical is required for the physical to slow
and
normalize sufficiently for a healing effect to result. The astral and mental
bodies take much less time for their normalization and clarification.
I am seeking someone who is capable of this operation (ie: conscious
separation of the bodies and manipulation of the Elements on all three
levels) and who is also interested in trying the experiement. While my
results are personally satisfying, I'm left wondering if these results are
reproducable, and what the variations might be and/or mean. If you are
interested, please contact me directly at .
Sincerely,
:) Rawn Clark
13 Feb 96
RC
In a recent post, Mr. Richards brings up a pertinent question: Why make The
Stone?
Is the motivation greed? The desire for physical gold? Is it the greed of
ego, of needing to have a certain power "over" others? As Mr. Richards
attests, and as many have discovered over the millennia, this is an empty
goal.
Is it a fear of Death? A need to defy the Natural Law of Change? Is it lust
for a single, endless, physical existence? This too proves to be an empty
goal when pursued alone. It invariably leads to the question of "Why?", and
without an answer to this unavoidable question, there is little point.
To me, the question of "Why?" is of equal importance to the question of
"How?", and I think both need to be pursued simultaneously and with equal
vigor. The danger of ignoring the "Why?" is that it is a question that MUST
be answered, a question that will stop one hard in their tracks till
answered.
Addressing it throughout one's Work, allows one's motivation to mature
naturally along with the accumulation of knowledge and power. The answer
to the question of "Why?" one does what one does with one's power and
knowledge, is a crucial ingredient in the Stone (IMO), and one not best
saved for last.
In the language of the Western Hermetic-Qabbalistic Tradition, there are
several ways to make it to Binah (Understanding). One way is from
Geburah, and is thought by some to be a short-cut. By this Path, the Adept
Major, forces their way across the Abyss by sheer power of will, travelling
from the Fire of Severity (Mars) to The Water of Severity (Binah). However,
this places one in the "Dark Sterile Mother" aspect of Binah, having traveled
from Severity to Severity, without touching upon Mercy. The result is a
sterile, motivationless power, limited by its own Saturnian force. The
overcomming of this Saturn force is difficult indeed...far more difficult and
"time consuming" than following the "Lightning Flash". It inevitably
requires a journey to Gedulah and subsequent crossing of the Abyss from that
direction, inorder to be corrected.
The Path from Geburah to Gedulah, and then to Binah, takes the Adept

Major from the Fire of Severity, to the Water of Mercy, before crossing the
Abyss. It is in Gedulah that the Adept solidifies her/his motivation. The
journey of the Exempt Adept across the Abyss, captures the so called
"Crossover of Influences", wherein the Water of Mercy is transformed into
the Water of Severity. This leads one to the "Bright Fertile Mother" aspect
of Binah, where the deepest levels of motivation are revealed.
In my opinion, one's motivation should be the focus of regular meditation
and prayer throughout one's pursual of Alchemy.
Wed Jan 31 18:54:35 1996
Subject: 0088 Alchemy and the bible
Date: 31 Jan 96 12:54:42 EST
From: Beat Krummenacher
In the bible passages are found, which are very well alchemical. Two examples
should illustrate this:
1) Moses and the golden calf: The bible says, that Moses took the golden
calf, burnt it and gave it to drink the people. After that the people were
opened the eyes, and it recognized, that it had wrong dealt.
This passage is often cited by alchemists of past centuries as evidence for
alchemy in the bible. But how the noble gold can be burnt and drink? First the
alchemists manufacture for the preparation of aurum potabile a metallic
lime from gold. One method is the amalgamation of gold with mercury followed
by distillation of the mercury. Metallic gold with a very large inner surface
stays
behind. In this way gold is opened and can more simply be brought
in solution. Such gold is often called gold lime. After that the gold lime can
be dissolved in the philosophical mercury, from which a reddish to
blood-red tincture results. This is evaporated and the remainder dissolved
in alcohol. You receive a red sweetish fluid, which is the aurum potabile.
Beside that there are still further methods of preparing, which however
basically
are similar. One important effect of the potable gold is the expansion
of the sensual abilities. But also the understanding gains in inner processes.
In other words: The sources and consequences of the own acts become
more conscious. If therefore the people Israel should have received from
Moses potable gold, so the following judgment of the people in his wrong
behavior hardly astonishes.
2) The song of Solomon: Who only has understood a little of the symbolism
of the rework in the great work of alchemy, finds in the song of Solomon an
excellent description of the individual levels of the great work. You naturally
can
understand the song also as anthem to love, above all its bodily manifestation.
However the parallels to the great work are very striking.
With this I would not like recommending to study the bible, if one wants to
penetrate into alchemy. There are much better and more detailed writings for
this purpose. Alchemical passages from the bible are historically interesting,
because they illustrate, that already at that time with it was alchemically
worked
with success.
Lapis

Sun Feb 11 09:58:43 1996

Subject: 0222 Alchemy and the bible
Date: 10 Feb 96 18:53:57 EST
From: Beat Krummenacher <100667.1267@compuserve.com>
Thomas D Sola wrote (6.2.96):
>Just a note, in my copy of the bible--a standard King James--it says he melted
the gold and made it into a powder. He then mixed the powder with water and gave
it for drink.<
Of course it is evident, that the biblical texts can be interpreted on different
kinds. A theological interpretation is always possible. However the
above-mentioned quotation from the bible seems to me to force an alchemical
interpretation.
Moses melted the gold: An amalgamation with mercury first leads to a fluid
utilizing mercury in the excess. Heating of the product has evaporated the
mercury and produces a powdery gold. The concept of water at the alchemists
often means our water, i.e. a philosophical menstruum, suitable to lead back
other materials in their first matter and/or to dissolve them. This dissolution
is drinkable as aurum potabile, whereby as a rule the gold salt remains as black
powder on the floor of the vessel and is not taken in. The real preparation of
potable gold is more complicated in the detail. The essential is however the
overpass of the metallic gold in a drinkable form with large spiritual effects.
I'm not changing my mind: The practical interpretation of this passage from the
bible is just as plausible as any other.
Lapis
Mon Feb 12 10:49:47 1996
Subject: 0231 Swedish bitter
Date: 11 Feb 96 18:10:24 EST
From: Beat Krummenacher
Dear Petra,
The Swedish bitter is neither a spagyric nor an alchemical product. Swedish
bitter is similarly manufactured to this day like in earlier times. According to
the manufacturer the composition varies. Fundamental are all Swedish bitter
however nothing but alcoholic extracts from a plant mixture.
Preparation: One brings the dried plants as finely as possible ground in
approximately 40 percent alcohol and leaves stay under occasional shaking
several days. Then is filtered off. The brownish to greenish filtrate is the
Swedish bitter. While today the industry uses pharmaceutical alcohol, one
formerly took distilled brandy.
Composition: A typical Swedish bitter contains predominantly bitter drugs and
plants with laxative effect. Among others are always contained aloe, senna
leaves, gentian. In general one may say, that a Swedish bitter is a robust
laxative. Properly dosed the bowel movement is eased. Because diarrhea can
appear in higher dosage, one believed, that Swedish bitter has a purifying
effect on the body. From thus the concept of the cleansing of the bloodstream
emerged.

Formerly the dispenses for Swedish bitter were concealed always more or less.
Since some components were rare or expensive, one paid for a good Swedish bitter
high prices. No wonder, that the Swedish bitter soon counted as universal remedy
and was utilized against rather everything, which tormented man. Formerly the
Swedish bitter stood in a similar respect like the theriac, which was likewise a
specially manufactured mixture from usually at least 20 different plants.
However the whole has nothing to do with alchemy.
Lapis
E-Mail 100667.1267@compuserve.com
Fri Feb 23 09:15:59 1996
Subject: 0284 Prima materia
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 1996 20:18:32 -0500
From: Rawn Clark
Dear Beat/Lapis,
Your words on the Prima materia, have been, as always,
most helpful and illuminating! They have helped immeasurably
in my current studies. Please accept this humble (and
hopefully NOT humiliating ) attempt at poetry as a token of
my heartfelt thanks. It was written today, and is the result of my
alchemical mind observing last night's snowfall.
**********SNOWFALL*************
Snow falls upon this Dark, moonless night.
Turning this Black to a luminous Grey-White.
The meagre light of distant Stars, multiplied by a number untold.
Descends, transforming this Earth, and rapt, I watch Her unfold.
I arise to find the Sun, brightly shining.
And a world changed White, made nearly blinding.
The bright rays of Light, leave no corner unturned.
Drip, drip, drip, and the White is burned.
Round about noon, steam rising up do I see.
Great clouds joyous singing:"Father Sun, we come to Thee."
Who knows, but perhaps with Divine Grace.
They too may Snow, some where, some time, some place.
'Round and 'round and 'round.
One Substance to be found.
Three in One, Five in One, Seven in One, Ten in One.
Ancient Mother of all...endlessly done and undone.
Thank you Sir Lapis, for White Wisdom's words.
They set me aloft, like an arrow to man, or a crow to birds.
Bless you Sir Lapis, as you have Blessed me.
And Bless most of all, the One who is Three!
:) Rawn Clark
22 Feb 96
Wed Feb 21 09:06:14 1996
Subject: 0274 Locating the prima materia

Date: 20 Feb 96 18:29:59 EST

From: Beat Krummenacher
The discussion on the prima materia is central in alchemy. Reading the current
messages to this theme it has struck me, that obscurity exists about the
different application of this household name. Up to now the philosophical
meanings of the prima materia were discussed in the main. I would like to
emphasize, that the term is used also for completely concrete and practical
substances.
There is hardly a theme in alchemy, which was so concealed like prima materia.
Thus it does not astonish, that so much confusion rules around the meaning of
this household name.
In the practical alchemy of the large work two working steps fundamentally have
to be distinguished: The preparatory work and the rework. The preparatory work
serves to it, to manufacture the basic materials for the rework out of the right
materials coming from nature. The rework exists in the boiling of the purified
materials of the preparatory work, joined in the right proportion. While in the
preparatory work the common fire serves as source of heat, in the rework the
secret fire of the alchemists works. This secret fire of the alchemists is both
the outer central fire of the world, as well as the inner central fire in the
matter, roused through the outer fire of nature and bound to the purified raw
material made fit for the work. Both fires of the nature activate the powers in
the matter of the stone and bring it to maturity. Also in the rework it must be
warmed with the ordinary fire, whereby it is to be paid attention on the right
degrees of the fire according to the stages of the great work.
The term prima materia is used for materials both of the preparatory work as
well as of the rework. Because the most do not know either the both fundamental
levels of the work or do not know to distinguish them, they confuse the
materials marked with prima materia. It is understandable, that then one soon
comes to the conclusion, that prima materia only is an abstract household name.
It is complicating, that still the term is also used for the concealed energy,
which is the mainspring of the whole work.
The term prima materia is bound up with the household name Mercurius
philosophorum. So Mercurius once is called the remote matter, then again the
close matter and ultimately the next matter. For elucidation of the whole I give
following list:
1. Prima materia universalis: or Mercurius universalis, Materia remota (remote
matter), Materia tertia.
It is the general vigor in its subtle energetic ethereal vehicle, the spiritus
mundi, the astral salt, the prana or od.
2. Mercurius crudus, prima Materia cruda, Materia propinqua or Materia secunda.
It is the general vigor with its subtle energetic vehicle, concentratively
loaded to a raw material base especially corresponding to its nature, the
Subiectum artis or the salt of the metals. The Mercurius crudus is the source
material for the preparation of:
3. Mercurius philosophorum, prima Materia metallorum, Materia proxima (next
matter) or generally Materia prima.
We receive the prima materia universalis as a present of nature. The prima
materia cruda however is the result of our own efforts. It is purified in the

preparatory work and made capable to release the philosopher s mercury. The most
difficult is the knowledge of the method, how the third matter is prepared from
the second (2.). Note: The term third matter also is often used for the remote
matter, which causes additional confusion.
An old master of the art informatively writes on the second and third matter
(Non plus ultra Veritatis): The knowledge of the second matter is the door,
which opens a free entrance to the locked palace of the king. After that the
knowledge of our fire, which is called the next matter of the stone, is a so
concealed mystery, that it is only found alone through the secret art of the
practice. The latter is however heavy to attain. Yes it is a miracle of the art.
For who understands the work, comprehends the whole science. And who does not
understand the same, loses time, trouble and costs in treatment of the matter,
because the philosophical operation in the preparation can only be learned
through a great gift of God, by means of lengthy industry, or through the
instruction of an experienced master. Thus it comes, that many, who know the
matter, do not know to use it. By this second matter our water is extracted
alone, which is the next matter of the blest stone.
We see therefore: The practical work in the preparatory work rests on it, first
to prepare the second matter - which is found in the nature and is loaded with
the first matter (see above 1.) - in a way, that from it the basis is received
for the rework. The philosophical wine is gained then from the prepared second
matter by the implied secret process. The wine is divided in different
components, which are the ingredients of the rework after seemly purification.
During the distillation of the philosophical wine a burning and very volatile
spirit escapes, often called the burning water. It owns a distinctive smell.
Furthermore one receives a yellow to red oil. Stays behind a black mass like
pitch.
After seemly processing of the purified principles from the philosophical wine
one receives two essential components: the sulfur of the philosophers as well as
the philosophical mercury or the third prima materia. The latter has an
especially aromatic and often sweetish smell. If one unites these both basic
materials with the gold seed and digests in the first degree of the fire, so the
whole mass changes and goes blacker as black: The first level of the rework is
reached...
Patrick J. Smith wrote:
> They [the Philosophers] beheld a man, as black as a moor, stuck fast in a
black stagnant bog, to whose assistance came a young woman, beautiful of
countenance, and clad in bright apparel. Her back was adorned with glorious
white wings. .. From her proceeded the most sweet scent, above all aromas. ..
Notice the contrast: The appearance of the light from out of the abyss is
personified in the form of a beautiful young woman, clothed in radiant apparel,
and enveloped by a very pleasant, sweet scent. <
This passage now is easy to understand, if one considers my above-mentioned
explanations. I probably must not more explain it.
The third prima materia or the philosophical mercury owns the ability to lead
back metals and minerals in their first matter, i.e. to dissolve them. The
household name of the first matter is thus also used to mark a metal or a
mineral, which was dissolved by means of the secret fire of the alchemists. So
for instance gold - being in the philosophical mercury - can be transformed into
a fluid (confer various messages to the potable gold).
Because the third prima materia is impregnated with the power of the first
mercury, the heavenly influences or the both fluids, it animates the common

metal gold delivered by nature and it forms alive gold or the gold tincture.
This alive gold is excessively loaded with energy. Often the alchemists say,
that their gold be more highly exalted than common gold. Properly processed a
philosopher's stone prepared with gold can transmute base metals into perfect
gold like yeast ferments dough to bread. The excessive load with the first
mercury forms more gold, than originally has entered in the tincture. The
(metallic) philosopher's stone owns an increasing power.
The blackness, often described in earlier messages to the forum as pure inner
conditions, as abyss, concretely appears at several places in the practical
work: In the preparatory work there are source materials, which become
pitch-black during the putrefaction. The processing of the second matter leads
to a remainder, which looks bubble-like black. Because this remainder equals a
warty toad, it often was symbolized by this animal. Furthermore a black oily
mass remains in the flask like pitch after working up the philosophical wine or
the philosopher's chaos. Final the first phase of the great work in the rework
to the philosopher's stone is a condition, in which the matter hermetically
sealed in the vessel looks likewise pitch-black.
We see therefore: Blackness and prima materia are terms, which were used for
many materials and various conditions of the work. The above-mentioned only
should serve as clue. If an alchemist learns to associate the right materials
and right levels of the work with the passages of alchemical writings, so all
current obscurity will escape. He will see with his own eyes, that the allegedly
philosophical and abstract descriptions of the alchemists are well-founded in a
practice, which actually exists. A practice, which only remains concealed to the
man, who may or can not understand.
Lapis
Sat Mar 02 10:12:38 1996
Subject: Cathari text <--> Poimander
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:36:32 -0500
In reading Maury's outline of the Cathari text (thank you Maury!!!)
I couldn't help but notice the similarity to Libellus 1 of the Corpus
Hermeticum -- the "Divine Poimander (DP) of Hermes" (Walter Scott's
translation is the best IMO). Therein is also a description of the
essential Alchemical Process.
An interesting parallel exists between the Cathar's "Satan" and the
Poimander's "Mind the Maker" (MM). In the DP, MM is the "Son
of God" (God being "Life and Light", or All Mind); but "Man" (created
after MM) is also the "son of God" and is seen as "brother" to MM.
Man ascends to the realm of MM ("who was set over the region of fire")
and becomes creative in his brother's stead. Man creates the physical
"administrators" (7 planets) and then descends into "down-ward tending
Nature", revealing to her "the Beautiful form of God". In her thirst,
Nature embraces this beauteous form and reflects it "in the water and
its shadow on the earth", luring Man to dwell within/upon her.
Nature is initially created by God/Light, improved upon with the
assistance of her brother MM, and then completed with the assistance
of her youngest brother -- Man. So Nature has three stages:
1) created by Light;
2) improved by Light + MM;

3) completed by Light + MM + Man.

Light, MM, and Man are all obvious symbols for the different
stages of Our Fire. In the DP, Nature is the prima materia in
one sense; and the man who is hearing the Poimander's words,
represents the prima materia in another sense. The rhythmic
interplay between Poimander and this man, is very revealing!
Poimander himself, seems a symbol for both the Alchemist
and the higher Fire.
It seems that the essential Alchemical Process is described in
many ancient texts, and with the use of many different symbol
systems. For instance, the Process can clearly be seen in the
Hebrew of the Sepher Yetzirah, or in the life of Christ. I also
suspect it can be found in the religious culture of indigenous
Americans (definitely to be seen in that of the Hopi!), but I have
not sincerely investigated this conjecture. Certainly it is to be
found in Asian and north African texts.
:) Rawn Clark
1 Mar 96
Sun Mar 03 16:14:46 1996
Subject: 0377 Johannes Segerus Weidenfeld
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 02 Mar 96 19:30:39 EST
Adam McLean has very well described the writings of Weidenfeld. Indeed it seems
to be escaped him, that the English version of "Concerning the secrets of the
adepts" is cheaper to get.
Under the number ISBN 1-56459-353-3 the book newly had been published by
"Kessinger Publishing Company, P. O. Box 160, Kila, MT 59920." The quality of
this edition could be better of course. However the entire text is readable and
complete. I have compared important places of the book with the Latin original
text. Thereby I ascertained, that the English translation very exactly records
the sense of the original text.
There presumably is no alchemical work, which is so informative for the
practitioner of the royal art!
Lapis
Sun Mar 03 22:26:56 1996
Subject: 0383 Hidden practice in Goethe's Faust?
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 16:06:43 -0500
In a message dated 96-03-03 13:17:38 EST, you write:
>Who only pursues one side under neglect of the other
>disregards the law. Thus there are many theorists in
>alchemy, who of course may beautifully and fascinatingly
> write about alchemy, but never have attained a right
>understanding. Just as there are such, who digest and
>cook in their flasks, but never will arrive at the desired

>goal, because they do not understand what they do.

>
>
Dear Lapis,
While I agree with what you say in this post, and understand
what you mean, I also think you have limited your perspective
(in the above paragraph) somewhat. The Path to Wisdom is
long, and is utterly unique to each individual. We all pass
through stages of unfolding, plateaus of understanding...steps
if you will, that *inevitably* and eventually lead us to our Goal.
We learn from success AND error. Though for a time we might
focus on one pole of this continuum, it is inevitable that we will
each learn in our own time and in our own way from this error,
and come to envelope the broader approach.
To know a thing so powerfully and then witness another's
confusion as they reach for the same knowing, is a difficult test.
Our heart's inclination is to reach out and point to the clear errors,
to help in any way we can. But this is best served if it be balanced
with a deep respect for the other individual's own unique path, and
a complete non-atachment to their adopting our view. In this way,
you become a participant in Divine Providence's plan for the individual,
as contrasted with acting in disregard for another's personal karma
(karma being a thing no one can acurately "judge" as regards another).
It is clear that you know all this, but the strident nature of your
wording in the quoted paragraph obscures your intention, and perhaps
serves a purpose contrary to the one in your heart. Please heed
these words sir. I write them with the utmost respect, as you know,
and from the midst of my own unfolding...i.e. personal experience. ;)
Best to you!
:) Rawn Clark
3-3-96
PS: I HIGHLY recommend (Lapis) Beat Krummenacher's book
"Spagyric Tinctures - Tradition, Preparation and Usage" to the
Forum! It's available through Archives Press in the USA.
Wed Mar 06 21:24:22 1996
Subject: 0394 Hidden practice in Goethe's Faust
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 05 Mar 96 18:28:06 EST
Dear Rawn,
I wrote:
>Who only pursues one side under neglect of the other disregards the law. Thus
there are many theorists in alchemy, who of course may beautifully and
fascinatingly write about alchemy, but never have attained a right
understanding. Just as there are such, who digest and cook in their flasks, but
never will arrive at the desired goal, because they do not understand what they
do.<
You admonished:
>To know a thing so powerfully and then witness another's confusion as they

reach for the same knowing, is a difficult test. Our heart's inclination is to
reach out and point to the clear errors, to help in any way we can. But this is
best served if it be balanced with a deep respect for the other individual's own
unique path, and a complete non-atachment to their adopting our view.<
You are right. The choice of words may perhaps achieve an effect, which is not
intended. With the whole message I wanted to bring Petra to consider the
possibility, that Goethe has a slighter meaning in alchemy, as many suppose.
This knowledge can only be gained however, if one clearly opposes the practical
aspects of the alchemy to the theoretical considerations.
If I completely softly talk or write about it in the way: Perhaps it would be
good once to think about the possibility, that there really is a functioning
practical alchemy. Goethe has had only very slight experiences in reality. Thus
is little probable, that Goethe in his Faust has symbolically described the
practice. But it could be, that he has exclusively reported on inner
experiences. If we deal with the Faust gaining from it practical advices, all
trouble is futile.
The content of this formulation corresponds to the content of my original
message. With a large difference. Who is fixed on Goethe's poetry, will hardly
be brought by a gentle formulation to see the things by an other side. He will
think perhaps: Well, could be possible. However I have no reason to examine my
opinion and possibly to revise it.
The more severe formulation, which definitely never intended an injury of the
feeling or the personal opinion of Petra has one advantage. Admittedly the
formulation is direct and more powerful. It consciously demands in an aggressive
way for defense. I suppose, that a such formulation unfolds a larger effect.
Because it directly is felt and must churn, the own attitude is confused. One
must deal with again bringing order in the confusion. One can not simply get rid
of the other opinion. One is forced to exactly consider, whether a revision of
the own views is necessary at most, or whether one can get on with things again,
as if nothing would have happened.
Consider nature: If a heavy stone stands in a way, so it will not be to be
moved, if one softly touches it or gently speaks to it. One already must give it
one strengthen push, so that it again releases the way. Also the nature uses
beside gentle strong methods to pursue their goals. Equate the stone in the
parable with a boged down opinion, the way with the personal development.
Sometimes it needs larger powers to clear out of the way a view hindering the
way of thinking.
For Petra: Consider the symbolic push well-intentioned. If you are as always
convinced that in Goethe's Faust the practice be hidden, so you need not at all
to defend yourself. Perhaps my contrary view is wrong. If the push has caused
however, that you thoroughly think about the whole matter again, so the purpose
of my message is fulfilled. My message only wanted to set you thinking, to which
I consciously got rolling larger powers. I respect Goethe as a great poet. For
me however he has been never an important alchemist. If I would like to
experience poetry, so I can go to Goethe. If I would like to progress in
alchemy, so I choose other authors.
I hope having clarified the situation somewhat with this in mind. My remarks
were not evilly meant at any rate.
With my best wishes
Lapis
Sun Mar 03 16:15:06 1996

Subject: 0379 Hidden practice in Goethe's Faust?

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 02 Mar 96 19:30:31 EST
Dear Petra,
think about the law of polarity: "Everything is dual; everything has poles;
everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites
are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are
but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled. " The Kybalion.
Applied to alchemy: There is an inner and an outer alchemy. There is theory and
practice. Both are identical in their nature, but different in their degree.
However the inner alchemy is only the half truth, just as the practical alchemy
is not everything. First if theory and practice come together emerges what real
alchemy is. Thus there is no true inner alchemy without practice, like it gives
no true practice without the inner understanding of the connections. True
alchemy proves itself both in the interior as well as in the exterior. In the
interior it corresponds to the so-called mental rebirth, in the outer to the
concrete philosopher's stone.
Who only pursues one side under neglect of the other disregards the law. Thus
there are many theorists in alchemy, who of course may beautifully and
fascinatingly write about alchemy, but never have attained a right
understanding. Just as there are such, who digest and cook in their flasks, but
never will arrive at the desired goal, because they do not understand what they
do.
You write:
>I had hoped you could help me in the chemistry of things, because in this field
I am still a novice, but it seems I am on my own again. I still" believe "the"
Chemical "Opus is hidden in the personified drama of Goethes Faust, just like in
his" Wahlverwandtschaften".<
If you believe that the chemical work is hidden in the personified drama, so you
are mistaken. The drama can do embody inwardly experienced important stadiums of
the outer work. The real materials does it not describe! The great work is not
so simple as one may wish for. Even if the alchemists write their work be simple
and laborious - a children's game and women's trade - so this is only correct in
part. If one knows the processes, so many steps are simple and often laborious.
The whole work is however more than that. The cited statement of the alchemists
counts only for partial processes of the great work.
If you still are a novice in the chemistry of the things, so you should change
this your condition as soon as possible. Begin with the practice! Then soon you
will see, that there is actually little concealed in Goethe's Faust which may
help on in reality.
An important principle of the alchemists is: Examine and then decide. Without
practical experience you can not understand my appraisal of the poetry. That's
no use, if you believe something. You must learn through experience, so that you
know, how it is in reality.
You write:
>Could you say that regarding the tinctures you are making?<
My answer is yes. Learn to understand using the preparation of spagyric essences
from plants how our art can release unexpected energies from matter. Regularly

take in such tinctures and the insights in the connections will reveal
themselves also to you. The plant alchemy is a safe and harmless lead-in in the
practical alchemy.
With best wishes
Lapis
Sat Mar 02 10:12:38 1996
Subject: Cathari text <--> Poimander
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 13:36:32 -0500
In reading Maury's outline of the Cathari text (thank you Maury!!!)
I couldn't help but notice the similarity to Libellus 1 of the Corpus
Hermeticum -- the "Divine Poimander (DP) of Hermes" (Walter Scott's
translation is the best IMO). Therein is also a description of the
essential Alchemical Process.
An interesting parallel exists between the Cathar's "Satan" and the
Poimander's "Mind the Maker" (MM). In the DP, MM is the "Son
of God" (God being "Life and Light", or All Mind); but "Man" (created
after MM) is also the "son of God" and is seen as "brother" to MM.
Man ascends to the realm of MM ("who was set over the region of fire")
and becomes creative in his brother's stead. Man creates the physical
"administrators" (7 planets) and then descends into "down-ward tending
Nature", revealing to her "the Beautiful form of God". In her thirst,
Nature embraces this beauteous form and reflects it "in the water and
its shadow on the earth", luring Man to dwell within/upon her.
Nature is initially created by God/Light, improved upon with the
assistance of her brother MM, and then completed with the assistance
of her youngest brother -- Man. So Nature has three stages:
1) created by Light;
2) improved by Light + MM;
3) completed by Light + MM + Man.
Light, MM, and Man are all obvious symbols for the different
stages of Our Fire. In the DP, Nature is the prima materia in
one sense; and the man who is hearing the Poimander's words,
represents the prima materia in another sense. The rhythmic
interplay between Poimander and this man, is very revealing!
Poimander himself, seems a symbol for both the Alchemist
and the higher Fire.
It seems that the essential Alchemical Process is described in
many ancient texts, and with the use of many different symbol
systems. For instance, the Process can clearly be seen in the
Hebrew of the Sepher Yetzirah, or in the life of Christ. I also
suspect it can be found in the religious culture of indigenous
Americans (definitely to be seen in that of the Hopi!), but I have
not sincerely investigated this conjecture. Certainly it is to be
found in Asian and north African texts.
:) Rawn Clark
1 Mar 96
Thu Mar 07 09:16:26 1996

Subject: 0398 Hidden practice in Goethe's Faust

From: Rawn Clark
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 22:22:40 -0500
Dear Beat,
Your meaning shines forth clearly in your re-statement,
and more importantly, your good intent and loving kindness
are more self-evident. This good sir, is the Magic which
moves mountains...its effect on a mere boulder is undoubtably
assured! It is always possible to serve boulders, unavoidable
"Stones of Stumbling", with a side dish of a Path Around It. A
little sauce of Loving Kindness on top, and voila'....the completely
*digest*able boulder!
Burrrp... Ahhhhh.... ;)
And now for some ale!
I look forward to the boulders you will grace us with in the future.
So far they have proved quite stimulating, and have been of
inestimable value to me personally!!!
Best to you!
:) Rawn Clark
6 Mar 96
Fri Mar 08 09:39:48 1996
Subject: 0418 Energy-Matter
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:08:29 -0500
Dear Peggy,
In reading your post I was struck by one thought especially,
and that was that throughout, you were speaking in terms
of *material energy*. Each of the energy forms you spoke
of is a physical, material thing, where there is no real
conversion from a non-material energy into, or out of, a
physical vehicle per se, since each is being considered
within the realm of material physicality. How can I put this
more clearly...???
In classical Hermetics, The All is Mind, or Thought (by that
I do NOT mean "brain function"), and is posited as the entirety
of the Continuum, which expresses through the identifiable
poles of material form and Essential Being. This One
Substance, Mind, has infinite vehicles of expression, each of
which dove-tail into the other. One of those vehicles is the
physical manifestation of energy which you and others here
describe...but this is a very dense expression of Mind AND
energy! Physical energy is the "closed universe" of the
physicists, while Mind is the Infinite Universe of the Hermetics.
Sunlight for example is a physical thing which has predicatable
physical consequences, etc. But behind, or within, the Sunlight
is the Essential Mind. It is this Essence which is of the most
importance in physical Alchemy (IMO!!). It is the Essence

within that creates and defines the effect which material sunlight
has upon other matter.
A meta-physical axiom is that "mind controls matter". Well, I
say that energy is the vehicle of Mind's control of physical
matter. Perhaps this is why physicists are discovering that
physical energy dove-tails into Mind at a certain level, and
ceases to function at a definably "physical" rate of vibration.
Now physical energy requires a physical stimulous to impact
it within the realm of physical reality (e.g.:physical fire causes
molecular excitation, etc.), so simply thinking a thing may or
may not (most likely not, unless you have major *physical*
brain-power!) effect a physical energy form. However, when
one reaches within the self and connects consciously with
Essential Mind, it is then possible to impact a physical
energy from "above", from the inside out, so to speak. This
Mental influence travels via its vehicle of energy, dove-tailing
from one level into the next, till it manifests its inevitable
physical expression.
This, I think, is where physics and Alchemy are different:
Physics measures the physical manifestation of Mind yet
doesn't recognize Mind in the process; whereas in Alchemy
we see each physical substance as an expression of Mind
and it is this Essence with which we directly work. Alchemy
is not JUST physics (IMO), though the laws of physics are
certainly the stage upon which we enact our Cosmic Drama.
Please forgive the gross generalizations in the above...I hope
this helps instead of further obscuring!
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
7 Mar 96
Alchemy Forum 0401-0450
From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were
sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 401-450.
Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive.
Thu Mar 07 09:16:54 1996
Subject: 0401 Conversion of energy to matter
From: Diane Munoz
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:15:02 -0800
>From: OISPEGGY
>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 12:01:06 -0500 (EST)
>Also, are there any other examples of energy being converted to
>matter, or is this the only one? (the sun)
>
Maybe not what you're looking for... but that is exactly what electricity
does when it is sent through the lines into our homes... light from
lightbulbs, music from stereo systems etc... The energy that is created
from the dam or the nuclear reactor... and also holography is based on the
same principle. And what about ice/water/steam/condensation...?

>Carbon is from the sun, right? What is meant by us being carbon

>based? (I've heard that said.) What % of our bodies is carbon,
>the element of the sun? What does that mean?
That our bodies are coagulated light perhaps?
Armenua
Thu Mar 07 09:17:04 1996
Subject: 0402 alchemy and heresy
From: Vic Stevens
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:14:39 -0500
Christians weren't the first to attempt legislating alchemy out of existence.
Diocletian, the Roman emperor from AD 284-305, known as a great
[conservative] reformer, and, ironically, the last 'great' persecutor of the
Christians, had a stab at ridding the world of alchemists.
Following is footnote 12, p 117, from "A Study of Chinese Alchemy", by Obed
S. Johnson, 1928.
"The report that Greeks in Egypt were practicing alchemy, received official
notice in the year 290 of our era, when the emperor Diocletian issued an
edict commanding that diligent inquiry should be made "for all the ancient
books which treated of the admirable art of making gold and silver," and
that, without pity, such books should be committed to the flames."
Cf. Gibbon, E.: The History of the Decline and Fall
of the Roman Empire, vol. I, pp. 427, 428., Cf. Encyclopedia Britannica,
eleventh edition, vol. I, p. 519. (end of footnote).
This quote has been taken out of context, I don't know the impetus behind
Diocletian's edict. What I do know of Diocletian's reign, his attempt at
snuffing alchemy may have been aligned with his financial reforms, including
taxation, and wage and price fixing -- an attempt at staving off inflation
that was later revoked.
====================
Glad to be back on line!
Thu Mar 07 09:17:13 1996
Subject: 0403 Goethe the Alchemist
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:04:51 +1100
I am calling to the stand: Mr. Adam McLean , Esquire.!
Mr. McLean, please tell us in your own words:
Was Goethe an Alchemist?
Please Adam, help us out here! You have done some fantastic work on Goethe's
Fairy Tale in your Magnum Opus Hermetic Sourcework # 14
You said on the cover: >>Goethe's dream-like and enchanting fairy tale of
"The Green Snake and the White Lily" is an allegory of transformation based
on the symbolism of alchemy. While it has fascinated readers for nearly two
centuries, few possessed the background knowledge to decode the alchemical
symbolism which forms the core of the allegory.<<
This was one reason why I wanted to study Alchemy. To decode Goethe's Fairy

Tale was my ambition, and I am presently working very hard on it...and even
if it takes up the rest of my life...I will know at the end.
Goethe himself said about his Fairy Tale: >>Diesen Abend verspreche ich
Ihnen ein Maerchen, durch das Sie an nichts und an alles erinnert werden
sollen.<< (This evening I promise to tell you a tale which shall remind you
of all [everything] and nothing). {depending on how knowledgeable we are}.
I will prepare something, too, but it will take a while.
Greetings from

--Petra Christiane Gottlieb

Thu Mar 07 09:17:24 1996
Subject: 0404 Energy to Matter
From: simeon
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 22:15 MST
In relation to the questions posed on the conversion of energy to matter
posed by Peggy.
One must understand that the Universe (perhaps multi-verse would be a better
term) is a closed system, in the greater picture there is no loss, only a
recycling of the energy / matter. While in our reality scientists may
measure an energy loss, in truth the energy is only lost to their
instruments, as it moves through a transformation that allows it to move
into other dimensions of reality in other systems. It still exists within
the greater system, albeit perhaps it escaped ours for the time being. What
is not easily observed is the way this energy re-enters our system once
again (easily observed in the context of cause and effect in its relation to
the originally observed exchange or event).
Coming from a different perspective, each one of us is an excellent example
of energy being converted to matter, as is all of this Creation. If one
engenders that this reality we call Earth is a concentration of vibrations
slowed down to a rate that is slow enough whereby the atoms can then densify
and take form as matter, then is that not an example of energy becoming
matter? Indeed it is, as the energy has changed states, as ice to water to
steam or vice versa (only in this example the energy remains matter). Matter
and energy are not separate, but different states of the same thing. It is
all energy, as an atomic bomb dramatically demonstrates. Einstein's E=MC2 is
also supportive of this concept. It establishes a relationship between
matter and energy relative to the speed of light. Energy equals matter times
the speed of light squared, a rather profound statement coming from a
bonafide nuclear physicist.
On a more spiritual note, the energy of our souls, and that of other great
illumined beings is able to move between dimensions of reality whereby it
appears the energy / matter was lost, but it simply has moved on to another
system, part of the greater system we are a part of also. If one looks at
say the resurrection of the Christ, this would seem to demonstrate the
conversion of matter to pure energy form, at the time a soul incarnates,
this is somewhat of a reversal of this process, albeit the body seems to
formed solely from the elements of the Earth, it is the direct interaction

of spiritual energies such as a soul, that direct and orchestrate the

process, and again the principle I spoke of above applies (vibrations
densifying into matter). A more dramatic demonstrastion of this principle
would be that of the illumined being who appears into physical form from the
ether, India has seen many of these. The only problem is that most souls who
incarnate on Earth do not attain the ability to reverse the process at the
end of their stay here on Earth, therby they stay within the enrgy cycyle of
the Earth, returning to reform matter into a body once again until they have
freed themselves from the bondage through being consciously able to do what
Christ and other Masters have shown is possible. This is the highest aim of
true alchemy, which has been greatly obscured by the many who have sought to
transform matter in a laboratory to better understand the concept. The many
attempts to gain alchemical knowledge laboratory style are not in vain, for
these are attempts at bringing the true knowledge back into human
consciousness once again, but it is important to keep the true objective
clearly in mind when embarking upon any adventure of discovery lest we
become enmeshed and caught up in the means as the end.
Simeon Nartoomid
Crest In the Stone Mystery School
johgrove@rmii.com
Thu Mar 07 09:17:34 1996
Subject: 0405 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: Barry Carter
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 22:56:21 +0000
Dear Peggy,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Please excuse me for my lack of scientific terms and knowledge.

I am not a scientist. I am trying to figure something out that
I think relates to alchemy.
The universe and all it contains, I have read, is composed of
either energy or matter. Matter can turn into energy, for
example, when I put gas in my truck I can then drive it a
distance. Energy turning into matter seems less common to
me. When does that occur? Can anyone give me examples? It
must happen regulary under my nose and I fear I'm overlooking
something obvious.

The whole question revolves around the question what is the nature of
matter and energy. Modern physicists tell us that matter is small
bits of matter which are composed of even smaller bits of matter
which are composed of something that sometimes looks like a wave
(energy) and sometimes looks like a particle (matter). They say
that these bits of stuff spend part of their time in this universe
and most of their time in an infinite number of other universes.
The point here is that the rules of matter that we understand break
down when you get to this quantum level of matter. Some physicists
even speak of time as being a local phenomena that is peculiar to
our universe. Try to think of any cause and effect series of events
without invoking time. The mind quickly boggles here. The book "The
Tao of Physics" has a very readable explanation of many of these
things. The thing about infinity is there sure is a lot of it.

Barry Carter
Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance
Voice 541-523-3357
Fax 541-523-9438
The road to hell is paved with good inventions.
Thu Mar 07 09:17:44 1996
Subject: 0406 Book Search - Johann Segerus Weidenfeld
From: Russ House
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 00:57:12 -0500
Hi Jon,
This was said first to my knowledge in The Philosophers of Nature course,
Mineral Alchemy, Lesson 36, written by Jean Dubuis:
"The four "Secret Books" of Weidenfeld confirm the interest of Becker's
work. When this work appeared (Weidenfeld's he means), the Rosicrucian
lodges of the time quickly made the copies disappear; hence today only a few
originals remain. In these books, everything is revealed, but a key is
still missing. It hinges around the question of the identity of the famous
red and white wine of Ramond Lulle, i.e., the Wine Spirit of the Adepts.
Weidenfeld had promised to give us the answer to this question in a fifth
book which never saw the light of day. In Becker's work, however... some of
Weidenfeld's important recipes are found, but also and above all. the true
nature and origin of theis philosophical wine."
I think that a few weeks ago in the forum one of the contributors spoke
about another 'key' of Weidenfeld to actuate or sharpen the menstruums.
Regards,
Russ
>From: Jon Marshall
>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:24:34 -0800
>
>
>On Mar 3, 4:19pm, Alchemy forum wrote:
>
>> From: Russ House
>>>
>> I think that Weidenfeld's book is of tremendous value. It has been said
>> that the R+C lodges of his day immediately bought up all copies of his book
>> to prevent.the information from becoming accessable to the public.
>>
>
>Hi Russ
>
>for ages i've wanted to know Who said this and where.....
>
>(tis a good book though)
>
>jon
====================================

Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies

The Philosophers of Nature on the web:
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/
email: alchemy@mcs.com
Thu Mar 07 09:17:55 1996
Subject: 0407 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: Russ House
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 00:28:04 -0500
>From: OISPEGGY
>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 11:32:19 -0500 (EST)
>
>....snip...
>Well, back to the problem of matter being turned to energy, for
>now. When I drive my truck the gas (matter) is turned into
>energy and my truck moves. However, when my truck stops I
>look at what the universe has gained and lost. The universe
>has lost both the gas (matter) it took to move my truck and
>the energy (motion) that resulted. The energy is no more. It
>is spent. It is in the past. Instead the universe has my truck,
>moved a few miles. Is the universe better off? What benefit is there
>to the universe that my truck is in a different position, when
>energy is lost forever. (It is lost forever, isn't it?) So it
>seems to me that during the exchange of matter to energy the
>universe experiences a loss.
>...clip.....
I am replying somewhat impulsively, but that may not be out of character
for me ;-)
Don't count yourself out of the equations of the Universe. To do so is a
bit reductionist, if I understand the meaning of the word.
The Universe has the truck moved a few miles, and presumably you were
in the truck for some purpose. Is the universe better off? If you wanted
to go somewhere, I guess that it may be.
To take the equations a bit further, it may be interesting to consider that
humanity is one of the multitudinous (!) forms that the Infinite has assumed
in its epansion to achieve self-awareness and realization, having created and
populated Nature progressively in the process. In such a case, Nature is a
creation of the self-evolving Being, for the sole purpose of providing Itself
with a vehicle for realization. I like to think that in the origin, the
Infinite
was Infinitely Stupid since there is no time-space, no duality, no other, no
thing, even no-being.
The goal in the end is to 'return' in Infinite Knowledge and Being, after
the various
descents and reascents of consciousness and form, spirit and matter. The
relevance
to Alchemy? The evolution of the metallic kingdom is under the same laws of
Nature, and for the same reason... the self-creation of the Infinite.
Regards,
Russ
====================================

Courses in Alchemy * Qabala * Esoteric Studies

The Philosophers of Nature on the web:
http://www.mcs.net/~alchemy/
email: alchemy@mcs.com
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" - Groucho Marx
Thu Mar 07 14:46:17 1996
Subject: 0408 Albigeois & alchemy
From: Jason Johns
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:39:38 PST
Dear All,
I read with great interest, Patrick J Smith's posting on Dragons and the Greek
legend regardin Typhon.
I am really intrigued by this as it matches quite closely to something I have be
en researching. Where and when does this legend originate from?
I sounds (to me anyway) that this could be a tale created to describe a great
cataclysm that occured. Possibly the last great flood (approx 10-15000BC?
And then it describes how man got over it all. Such people as Osiris,
Quetzacoatl travelling the world and spreading civilisation.
I would appreciate anyone who knows any more of these tales to let me know
them as I can put them to good use!
Best regards
Jayzn
[Jason.Johns.RXUK@eur.xerox.com]
Thu Mar 07 14:46:29 1996
Subject: 0409 alchemy and heresy
Date: 07 Mar 96 05:54:36 EST
From: MARVIN LOWES
Maury in his perceptive post writes:
> I think one would have to examine at the very
>minimum: (1) the perspective the alchemists had themselves, i.e., whether
>they considered themselves heretical or not; (2) the role of the so-called
>Christian interpretation of alchemistic thought would have to be
>investigated, i.e., understanding it as an attempt at a spiritualization of
>chthonic forces (I see in alchemy the attempt at a different solution, namely
>to bring about the union of opposites which is lacking in the historical
>Christian doctrine); and (3) examining the encoding of heretical ideas within
>the alchemical literature itself.
This seems to be to be full of insights and I would hate to see this discussion
end here, thought hinking about it I realize that any of these 3 topics could in
themselves constitute a life's work!
But (1) above - could anyone comment on that? That would be most helpful to
those of us who find that the more we listen and learn on this forum the more

errors we find in our own preconceptions.

Tony
Thu Mar 07 14:46:37 1996
Subject: 0410 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: Arnstein Vestad
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:52:10 +0100 (MET)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, back to the problem of matter being turned to energy, for

now. When I drive my truck the gas (matter) is turned into
energy and my truck moves. However, when my truck stops I
look at what the universe has gained and lost. The universe
has lost both the gas (matter) it took to move my truck and
the energy (motion) that resulted. The energy is no more. It
is spent. It is in the past. Instead the universe has my truck,
moved a few miles. Is the universe better off? What benefit is there
to the universe that my truck is in a different position, when
energy is lost forever. (It is lost forever, isn't it?) So it
seems to me that during the exchange of matter to energy the
universe experiences a loss.

All energy and matter in a closed universe is conserved.

The energy is converted to a different form, and the total
level of entropy in the universe is increased. What this means,
is that the energy used to drive the car, is converted to a
less usefull kind of energy, mostly heat that is transfered
to the ground that you drive on etc.
--Arnstein
arnves@stud.unit.no
Thu Mar 07 19:12:43 1996
Subject: 0411 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: William A. Ryan
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 08:02:48 -0500
Peggy, read Chapter 9 of In Search of the Miraculous by P.D. Ouspensky,
to understand a little more about the waste of energy. Also, think
about thoughts being translated into spoken words for energy converted
into matter. Think of the weight of words. Hence incantations in spells
etc.
Best Wishes, Kate Ryan
Thu Mar 07 19:12:55 1996
Subject: 0412 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: OISPEGGY@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:28:26 -0500 (EST)
Russ:
>The goal in the end is to 'return' in Infinite Knowledge and Being, after
>the various
>descents and reascents of consciousness and form, spirit and matter. The
>relevance
>to Alchemy? The evolution of the metallic kingdom is under the same laws of

>Nature, and for the same reason... the self-creation of the Infinite.
Yes, well good for the infinite, but what's in it for *me*?
- Peggy Thu Mar 07 19:13:03 1996
Subject: 0413 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: OISPEGGY
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:53:43 -0500 (EST)
>From: Logodox
>The truck has converted matter into energy, but neither the total matter or
>energy in the universe has changed, only the form of 1 or both of them.
Perhaps it is possible that the energy lost by driving the truck was
converted to enery via wind-resistance, breaking, etc... But I'd
feel more confident about this if I saw it demonstrated.
[...much interesting discussion deleted....]
>Your emotion is the Alchemical Chaos, Your MIND is the Alchemical ORDER,
>Your polarized concepts are the bride & groom, marry them and You will have the
>original hermaphrodite, the one being, pre-existing all matter !
Is this (above) a way of saying integrate the subconscious with the
conscious? Find the pearl of great price? Journey to Ixtlan? Swallow
the oyster? Polish the diamond? Slay the dragon? Incinerate the Phoenix?
Etc., ect... If so, its the first step -- is it not -- but not the entire
process? After that don't you have to find a higher (spiritual) guidance?
Then there probably is more.....
- Peggy Thu Mar 07 19:13:13 1996
Subject: 0414 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: OISPEGGY
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:22:19 -0500 (EST)
Bary Carter:
>The whole question revolves around the question what is the nature of
>matter and energy. Modern physicists tell us that matter is small
>bits of matter which are composed of even smaller bits of matter
>which are composed of something that sometimes looks like a wave
>>(energy) and sometimes looks like a particle (matter). They say
>that these bits of stuff spend part of their time in this universe
>and most of their time in an infinite number of other universes.
More universes? Jesus, I have enough problems already.
>The point here is that the rules of matter that we
>down when you get to this quantum level of matter.
>even speak of time as being a local phenomena that
>our universe. Try to think of any cause and effect
>without invoking time.

understand break
Some physicists
is peculiar to
series of events

So what happens to energy in regard to my "driving the truck" example.

The gas (matter) is turned to energy to move my truck. When my truck

stops I have less gas that I started out with, and the energy used
to move it is gone, so does that mean that the universe has less
raw material, energy/matter, than it did before I drove? Is it
being depleted all the time?
>The mind quickly boggles here.
Yes.
>The book "The
>Tao of Physics" has a very readable explanation of many of these
>things. The thing about infinity is there sure is a lot of it.
I shall watch for it.
Regards,
- Peggy Thu Mar 07 19:13:22 1996
Subject: 0415 (Energy to Matter) now: True Alchemy
From: OISPEGGY@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:20:32 -0500 (EST)
Simeon,
>The only problem is that most souls who
>incarnate on Earth do not attain the ability to reverse the process at the
>end of their stay here on Earth, therby they stay within the enrgy cycyle of
>the Earth, returning to reform matter into a body once again until they have
>freed themselves from the bondage through being consciously able to do what
>Christ and other Masters have shown is possible.
I have read of the Bardo, in _Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines_.
Although the esoteric is fascinating in its own right, my studies
also have a practical side. I wish to avoid becoming lost in the
Bardo or the labrynth, or the sea, or the Scajaquada (Rte.33), or
whatever other wasteful energy patterns occur after death. This
bug has been buzzing around the light (to the tune of the Beatles,
"This Boy" only insert "this bug") for too long. There must be
a better way.
>This is the highest aim of
>true alchemy, which has been greatly obscured by the many who have sought to
>transform matter in a laboratory to better understand the concept. The many
>attempts to gain alchemical knowledge laboratory style are not in vain, for
>these are attempts at bringing the true knowledge back into human
>consciousness once again, but it is important to keep the true objective
>clearly in mind when embarking upon any adventure of discovery lest we
>become enmeshed and caught up in the means as the end.
Can you say more about "true alchemy?" I do not have the energy to
spend years and years on lab experiments so this sounds promising.
On the other hand, no offense intended, whenever someone says "true
[fill-in-the-blank] I fear a 1-true-wayism diatribe is coming next.
Simeon Nartoomid
Crest In the Stone Mystery School

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BTW, what is this mystery school?
Regards,
- Peggy oispeggy@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Fri Mar 08 09:39:28 1996
Subject: 0416 Goethe the Alchemist
From: Jeffrey A steele
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 96 14:37 CDT
A very evocative book on the subject of Geothe and alchemy is Alice Raphael's
_Goethe and the Philosopher's Stone_ (New York: Helix Press, 1965).
Jeffrey Steele, jasteele@macc.wisc.edu
Fri Mar 08 09:39:39 1996
Subject: 0417 ritual and alchemy
From: Pat Zalewski
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 96 08:18 NZST
>From: George Randall Leake III
>Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 16:46:09 -0600
>
>
>Just wondering since someone recently had said "where's the magic in
>alchemy" if anyone out there conductstheir lab work as a ritual
>(consciously or unconsciously)?
>
Yeh,
I do george, but it is a long winded drawn out process. One experiment I
did in ritual and used 18 horoscopes.
Pat zalewski
Fri Mar 08 09:39:48 1996
Subject: 0418 Energy-Matter
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:08:29 -0500
Dear Peggy,
In reading your post I was struck by one thought especially,
and that was that throughout, you were speaking in terms
of *material energy*. Each of the energy forms you spoke
of is a physical, material thing, where there is no real
conversion from a non-material energy into, or out of, a
physical vehicle per se, since each is being considered
within the realm of material physicality. How can I put this
more clearly...???

In classical Hermetics, The All is Mind, or Thought (by that

I do NOT mean "brain function"), and is posited as the entirety
of the Continuum, which expresses through the identifiable
poles of material form and Essential Being. This One
Substance, Mind, has infinite vehicles of expression, each of
which dove-tail into the other. One of those vehicles is the
physical manifestation of energy which you and others here
describe...but this is a very dense expression of Mind AND
energy! Physical energy is the "closed universe" of the
physicists, while Mind is the Infinite Universe of the Hermetics.
Sunlight for example is a physical thing which has predicatable
physical consequences, etc. But behind, or within, the Sunlight
is the Essential Mind. It is this Essence which is of the most
importance in physical Alchemy (IMO!!). It is the Essence
within that creates and defines the effect which material sunlight
has upon other matter.
A meta-physical axiom is that "mind controls matter". Well, I
say that energy is the vehicle of Mind's control of physical
matter. Perhaps this is why physicists are discovering that
physical energy dove-tails into Mind at a certain level, and
ceases to function at a definably "physical" rate of vibration.
Now physical energy requires a physical stimulous to impact
it within the realm of physical reality (e.g.:physical fire causes
molecular excitation, etc.), so simply thinking a thing may or
may not (most likely not, unless you have major *physical*
brain-power!) effect a physical energy form. However, when
one reaches within the self and connects consciously with
Essential Mind, it is then possible to impact a physical
energy from "above", from the inside out, so to speak. This
Mental influence travels via its vehicle of energy, dove-tailing
from one level into the next, till it manifests its inevitable
physical expression.
This, I think, is where physics and Alchemy are different:
Physics measures the physical manifestation of Mind yet
doesn't recognize Mind in the process; whereas in Alchemy
we see each physical substance as an expression of Mind
and it is this Essence with which we directly work. Alchemy
is not JUST physics (IMO), though the laws of physics are
certainly the stage upon which we enact our Cosmic Drama.
Please forgive the gross generalizations in the above...I hope
this helps instead of further obscuring!
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
7 Mar 96
Fri Mar 08 09:39:58 1996
Subject: 0419 FRENCH : Alchimie et Symbole
From: Christian Vanden Berghen
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 20:09:50 +0100
Bonjour a tous,

Voici un article que j'ai publie il y a quelques semaines dans une revue.
Il me semble que la reponse de Barry a la question de Peggy peut etre
completee par certains elements de cet article.
Amities a tous
Christian
Le sejour de l'etre humain dans le monde manifeste implique la confrontation
parfois douloureuse avec la dua-lite. Le physicien francais Louis de
Broglie, createur de la mecanique ondulatoire, presenta une theorie qui
devait troubler profondement la quietude des savants accroches aux theories
mecanistes du siecle dernier. Il demontra en effet l'existence simultanee
de deux etats contradictoires au sein de la lumiere : le caractere gra-nule
dans la continuite d'une onde. Le photon qui a l'apparence d'une quantite
isolee apparait en meme temps dans une fonction continue de l'onde : le
discontinu dans le continu. C'est cette simultaneite, que l'intelligence
cerebrale ne pourra pas saisir, mais dont l'experience demontre l'existence,
que le physicien Werner Heisenberg appellera le "Principe d'incerti-tude",
mais que la Tradition traduit par le "Moment Present".
Cette decouverte illustre parfaitement les limitations de l'intelligence
cerebrale face a la dualite qui nous rend si complexe la comprehension du Un
La simultaneite etant inobjectivable, il est impossible de la "raisonner".
Nous devons alors faire appel a une autre forme d'intelligence qui refuse
l'objectivation pour la remplacer par la symbolisation. Ceci appelle en
nous la recherche d'une vision intuitive.
Des qu'un concept se trouve formule, c'est-a-dire decrit et defini, il
devient statique, exoterique. Or, c'est precisement que nous faisons avec
notre intelligence cerebrale. C'est pour cela que la seule comprehension
possible des choses de l'Esprit passe par une maniere d'impregnation ou
intelligence cardiaque. La forme intuitive de l'intelligence est une
intelligence dynamique, esoterique.
Le symbole remplace de longues suites de raisonnements puisqu'il procede par
analogie. Personne n'a jamais dit au jeune enfant qui dessine une maison et
un soleil que la maison est "comme" sa maman, et que le soleil est "comme"
son papa, et pourtant il le "sait", car l'intelligence de l'enfant est
encore intuitive et analogique. Il faudra qu'il aille a l'ecole pour perdre
cette richesse et apprendre qu'un chat est un chat et rien qu'un chat.
Le symbole peut etre defini de plusieurs manieres qui seront toutes, par
definition, incompletes en fonction precisement de ce qui vient d'etre dit.
Disons alors que le symbole est un element concret qui nous evoque une
realite d'un autre ordre. Contrairement a ce que s'imaginent ceux qui ont
perdu cette forme de comprehension, le symbole ne sert donc pas a cacher
certaines choses aux regards indiscrets, mais au contraire a reveler des
verites inaccessibles a l'intelligence rationnelle, c'est-a-dire ne pouvant
pas etre exprimees en mots.
Le symbole est donc une fenetre s'ouvrant sur un autre monde seulement
accessible a un mode de pensee unitaire. Lui seul permet de comprendre (au
sens etymologique du terme : prendre ensemble) les dualites et leur
simultaneite.
Si nous examinons la notion de temps, nous admettrons logiquement qu'il se
mesure par le mouvement, c'est-a-dire par rapport a l'espace : le temps est
determine par le deplacement de la Terre dans l'espace. Or, le mouvement
est soit termine soit a venir , ne pouvant etre a la fois passe et futur.
Que devient des lors le Moment Present ? Il ne peut etre situe qu'en dehors
du temps et echappe donc a la comprehension humaine puisque l'homme est
entierement baigne et soumis au temps et a l'espace. Le Moment Present
evoque donc l'Absolu, dont l'approche ne peut se faire que par le symbole
qui seul nous permet d'echapper a nos limitations humaines.

Ce sont nos limitations cerebrales qui nous font parler d'avant la naissance
et apres la mort. Corollairement a cela, assimiler la mort a l'eternite est
absurde car la seule eternite se situe justement dans le Present.
L'attitude inverse reviendrait a accepter la notion de temps lineaire que
tente de nous imposer la science, et surtout de courir sans repos vers un
futur qui se derobera sans cesse a nous.
Seul le symbole nous permet de nous glisser dans cette faille entre le temps
et l'espace, entre le passe et le futur.
Christian Vanden Berghen

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Christian VANDEN BERGHEN
Rota Solis asbl
Brussels/Belgium
christian.vanden.berghen@netropolis.be
ChristianVandenBerghen@msn.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Fri Mar 08 09:40:08 1996
Subject: 0420 PRIMA MATERIA / SPIRITUS UNIVERSALIS
From: calhhh
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:13:41 -0400

I can not say strongly enough how much I have enjoyed this
Forum since my recent subscription, and how valuable it is
for all of us that for one reason or other are sincerely
interested in ALCHEMY. I can just imagine, how the Great
Masters of our Sacred Art would have felt and used such
a formidable resource .......
A few days ago while reviewing Franz Hartmann's ALCHEMY I came
upon a quotation that I thought would add something of value to
the forum discussion on the subject of PRIMA MATERIA as previously
discussed by LAPIS and others. Furthermore, reading it between
lines, also speak to us about the thematic relating to energy/matter
interaction, within the alchemical scope. So I quote :
------------------------------------------------------------------THE SPIRITUS UNIVERSALIS
Without which no alchemical experiment will succeed
Johannes Tritheim, an abbott and alchemist, whose writings are
plainer and more comprehensible than any other alchemical book,
says :
- All things have been made by the power of the divine word,
which is the divine spirit or breath that emanated from the
divine fountain in the beginning. This breath is the spirit or
soul of the world, and is called the "spiritus mundi". It was
at first like air, and contracted into a fog or nebular substance,

and afterwards became "water" (Akasa). This "water" was at first

all spirit and life, because it was permeated by and made alive by
the spirit. It was dark in the depths; but through the outspoken
word the light became generated therein, and then the darkness was
illumined by the light, and the "soul of the world" (the astral
light) had its beginning. This spiritual light, which we call
"Nature", or the sould of the world, is a spiritual body, which,
by means of Alchemy, can be made tangible and visible; but as it
exists in an invisible state, therefore is it called "spirit".
This is an universal and living fluid diffused throughout the
All of Nature, and which pervades all beings. It is the most
subtle of all substances, the most powerful on account of its
inherent qualities, penetrating all bodies, and causing the forms
in which it is active to live. By its action it frees the forms
of all imperfections, and renders the impure pure, the imperfect
perfect, and causes that which is mortal to become inmortal by
becoming fixed therein".
"This esence or spirit has emanated from the centre in the
beginning, and is incorporated into the substance of which the
world is formed. It is the Salt of the Earth, and withouth its
presence the grass would not grow, nor the fields be green; and
the more this essence is condensed, concentrated, and coagulated
in the forms, the more enduring will they become. This substance
is the most subtle of all things, incorruptible, unchangeable in
its essence, pervading the infinity of space. The sun and the
planets are merely condensed states of this universal principle,
and they distribute their abundance from their throbbing hearts,
and send them into the forms of the lower worlds and into all
beings, acting through their own centres, and leading the forms
higher up on the road to perfection. The forms in which this
living principle becomes fixed become perfect and permanent, so
that they will neither rust nor decay, nor be changed on being
exposed to the air; neither can such forms be dissolved by water,
nor be destroyed by fire, nor eaten up by the elements of the
earth.
"This spirit can be obtained in the same manner in which it is
communicated to the earth by the stars; and this takes place by
means of water, which serves as its vehicle. It is not the
Philosopher=B4s Stone, but the latter may be prepared of it by
causing that which is volatile to become fixed.
"I admonish you to pay strict attention to the boiling of the
water, and not to allow your minds to be disturbed by things of
minor mportance. Boil it slowly, and let it putrefy until it
attains the proper colour, for in the water of Life is contained
the Germ of Wisdom. By the art of boiling the water will become
transformed into earth. This earth is to be changed into a pure
crystalline fluid, from which an excellent red fire is produced;
but this water and fire, grown together into one essence,
produces the great Panacea, composed of meekness and strenght :
the Lamb and the Lion in one" .
-----------------------------------------------------------------I here propose that the description of the author while speaking to
us of the Spiritus Universalis, also makes us remember of what
happened on Genesis as well as what occurs in the Chaos contained
in the Vessel of our Work. Does it also remind us of the Mutus

Liber ... (?)

The author also describes the Prima Materia as follows:
----------------------------------------------------------------THE "PRIMA MATERIA"
If we wish to know nature we must learn to know God, and God
cannot be known without a knowledge of one=B4s own divine self.
The spiritual substance of which external visible nature is an
imperfect expression and manifestation, has been called "Prima
Materia"; it is the material for the formation of a new heaven
and a new earth. It is like "water", or a "crystalline ocean",
if compared with our grossly material earth, it is at once fire,
water, air, and earth, corporeal in its essence, and nevertheless,
incorporeal relatively to our physical forms.
In it as the "Chaos", are contained the germs, or seeds, or
"potencies" of all things that ever existed, and of all that
ever will exist in the future. It is the soul, or corpus of
nature, and by means of the magic fire, it may be extricated
from all substances, and be rendered corporeal and visible.
It is a unity, and nevertheless a trinity, according to its
aspects as Sulphur, Mercury, and Salt. These three are distinct
qualities characterising the spirit of light, and nevertheless
they are nothing different from the essence of the light, and
this light is eternal nature, or the soul of the world.
This "primordial matter" contains the powers that go to form
minerals and metals, vegetables and animals, and everything
that breathes; all forms are hidden within its depths, and it
is therefore, the true principium or beginning of all things.
It is the play and battle ground for all the astral influences
that come from the stars and the birthplace of the beings that
inhabit the astral plane, not less than of those that are born
into the (to us) visible world. It is the womb of eternal nature
from which everything that exists is born by the power of the
spirit acting within. from its fertile soil are produced good
and evil fruits, wholesome and noxious plants, harmless and
poisonous animals, for God is no distinguiser of persons, or
favouring any particular individual; each receives its share
of live, and will, according to its capacity to receive, and
each becomes ultimately that which its character destines it
to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------As LAPIS mentioned previously, part of the confusion when discussing
alchemical terminology, and specially so when one of the most hidden
subjects such as the PRIMA MATERIA is concerned, is the fact that the
same terms where used interchangeably to mean different things and/or
stages within our Work. On the writing above, Tritheim speaks to us
of the Spiritus Universalis, which indeed is contained in everything
that could be considered to be "LIVE" within the mineral, animal or
vegetable kingdom.
LAPIS states that the Prima Materia Universalis also called
Mercurius Universalis, Materia Remota, Materia Tertia, etc., is
the GENERAL VIGOR in its subtle energetic ethereal vehicle, the
Spiritus Mundi, the Astral Salt, the Prana or Od.

It is precisely this primordial matter, that as it is said in the

text quoted, "contains the powers that go to form minerals and
metals, vegetables and animals, and everything that breathes". But
also, it is important to underline that : "By its action it frees
the forms of all imperfections, and renders the impure pure, the
imperfect perfect, and causes that which is mortal to become inmortal
by becoming fixed therein".
Does this statement, in its best sense, sounds familiar with the
Alchemical Quest ....(?) In my humble opinion and being far from being
an expert alchemist, I will say that I agree that this "primordial
matter" IS the starting point of nature=B4s creation and therefore could
well be labeled PRIMA MATERIA.
Johannes Tritheim adds that "The sun and the planets are merely
condensed states of this universal principle, and also mentions
that "It is not the Philosopher=B4s Stone, but the latter may be
prepared of it by causing that which is volatile to become fixed."
This opens another door to a healthful discussion ..... I am not
argueing that the Mineral Work as conducted by many alchemists through
the ages with different materials (antimonists, galenists,..., etc.) is
mistaken, since it could be well argued that since this Spiritus
Universalis is contained in everything living, then any "living" matter
you are working with, already has enough of it to proceed with the Work,
given that the other materials that the alchemist have chosen to work
with are adequate to this Pursuit .
On the other hand it could also be argued that is precisely in the
knowledge of "condensing" this Spiritus Universalis, where resides
the neccesary way to philosophize our work and even more to
potentialize it .... Indeed it has been said that the True Alchemist
is just a facilitator of Nature, whom by doing specific procedures,
with the right materials, just accelerates Its Work.
So what is this primordial matter that " It is a unity, and
nevertheless a trinity, according to its aspects as Sulphur, Mercury,
and Salt." ? ? ?
In my opinion it is an Energy that through the processes of Nature is
condensed on our physical plane, through the marriage of the Sun and
the Moon, and that can be made clearly visible through the Art of
Alchemy ... This original marriage that speaks to us of the union of
a Positive (Male/Cosmic/Od/outer fire) and Negative (Female/Telluric/
/Kundalini/inner fire) energies, also constitute the primordial fire
of nature. Through the Ages, different native cultures have become
aware of its existence, and have tried to chanelled them through the
usage of Dolmens, Menhirs, Gothic Cathedrals, Pyramids, etc., giving
birth to art/sciences as Feng Shui, Sacred Geometry/Architecture, and
others, which were developed with different but interconnected purposes
in mind.
The Alchemists in turn are also trying to condense and potentialize
this energy through its laboratory processes, incorporating it to the
other Materials while at the same time and most importantly adding its
own internal divine spark into the mixture. It is this internal energy
of each Alchemist, that in my opinion, apports to the Work the tuning fork
after which his Stone in the process of creation will resonate to. And
that is why I feel that, as there are no two alchemist alike, there are
not two Philosoher=B4s Stones alike. This is also why we must pray again

and again, so that ourselves with the help of God, and in a simbiotic
process with our Lapis Philosophorum, continue to evolve through the
process that hopefully will carry us over to the successful conclusion
of our Opus Magnum.
Can the stone be made by an alchemist from the Spiritus Universalis
alone ? ? ? I guess it can .... but I also feel that it would require
a much more skilfull and patient Artist ....
I apologize for such a long posting, but hope to contribute with what I
consider to be a central and much interesting subject for discussion.
To all members, my fraterly love,
ORCIS
Fri Mar 08 09:40:17 1996
Subject: 0421 Becker's work
From: Petra Gottlieb
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:53:26 +1100
Russ,
you mentioned Becker's work in your last post.
Can you please give title, full name of the man, and may be location where I
could purchase the book?
Thanks from
--Petra Christiane Gottlieb
petrag@iaccess.com.au
--OHNE LIEBE KEINE KUNST! (Paracelsus)
WITHOUT LOVE THERE IS NO ART!
Fri Mar 08 09:40:25 1996
Subject: 0422 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: Logodox
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 19:20:55 -0600
>Yes, well good for the infinite, but what's in it for *me*?
>
>- Peggy Nothing while You are YOU, since the real You is the One infinite being, all
else is illusion. The universe doesn't care about You any more than it
cares about me. Its much bigger than US! The more one perpetuates his
separate "self" the further he travels from the "gate":
Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way unto life,
and few there be that find it !
Nature loves children, figure out why...
Best,
>

nous ----> logodox@sound.net

Fri Mar 08 09:40:34 1996
Subject: 0423 crocodiles
From: M.E. WARLICK
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 18:33:56 -0700 (MST)
Dear Jane:
I wanted to reply to your question, then got put on Jury Duty
for the week and had no time. Reptiles often appear in 17th century
prints and paintings of alchemical laboratories, although there is
some scholarly debate on the degree to which these images truthfully
reflect what real alchemical laboratories of the period would have
contained. To begin your search, I would suggest the following
articles: C.R. Hill, "The Iconography of the Laboratory," -Ambix_ Vol.
22 Part 2, July 1975, pp. 102-110, and Jane P. Davidson, "I am the
poison dripping dragon": Iguanas and their Symbolism in the alchemical
and Occult Paintings of David Teniers The Younger," -Ambix- Vol. 34,
Part 2, July 1987, pp. 62-80. Good Luck!
M. E. Warlick (mwarlick@du.edu)
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From: Jane E. Jenkins

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:26:57 -0600 (CST)

Alchemy Forum Members,

I am still baffled by the presence of stuffed crocodiles hanging in
apothecary/alchemical laboratories. What were they used for? What was the
symbolism attached to them? Any help in my search for more info would be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
jenkins

>
Fri Mar 08 09:40:45 1996
Subject: 0424 True Alchemy?
From: simeon
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 96 18:27 MST

Peggy, you wrote:

"Can you say more about "true alchemy?" I do not have the energy to
spend years and years on lab experiments so this sounds promising.
On the other hand, no offense intended, whenever someone says "true
[fill-in-the-blank] I fear a 1-true-wayism diatribe is coming next"
Perhaps I could better have represented the concept at hand by saying 'the
highest form of alchemy' as all forms of alchemy that transform matter in
some way are 'true alchemy'. The ultimate goal at hand would be to transform
matter into pure energy through consciousness alone, such as was exemplified
by the Christ (and others). As we are existing in what Thoth refers to as a
fallen continuum, the efforts to attain this knowledge through laboratory

experimentation have a definoite place in the process. There are souls who
have incarnated for that specific purpose in order to 'open the scroll of
knowledge' for others to take the process increasingly further. Whatever
each of these souls accomplishes is recorded in the akashic recording
crystals of the Earth, and serves as a 'database' for others to draw upon
whether they realize it or not.
The task for you is to discern just what your correct path is in this
incarnation, that of the laboratory alchemist, that of the more nebulous,
but more direct purely spiritual transformation of matter (i.e. your own
form) or perhaps a combination of both. All of these paths are deeply
involved with Universal principle, and will require a great deal of commitment.
I would also like to preface any future posts I may place on the forum in
regards to my use of the word 'Truth'or 'True'. It is my belief that each
and every soul must discern what is truth to them in any given moment of
time. I use the word to represent that which I have discerned to be my
truth, if it does not feel right to another, then I support them in their
right to a different perspective. Each of us must come to firmly know what
their own truth is, without closing down to the possibility that they may
see it differently tommorow, or some point in the linear future.
The Crest In The Stone Mystery School is founded by my wife and partner Maia
Chrystine Shamayyim. It originally was The Rainbow Earth Dwelling Society
founded 1981, her name was originally Linda Christine Hayes. It became the
Star of Isis Mystery School in 1989 and then the Crest In The Stone Mystery
School in 1995. The foundation of the organization is 'source translated'
information received by Maia over the last 28 years. Maia was originally
made aware of her unique talents when she was 18 years of age. At that age
she started writing accountings of what she thought were imaginative
stories, but came later to find out they were validated by the work of
others she had no previous knowledge of, to be actual transcriptions taken
from the akashic recording crystals of the Earth. Within a couple yaers time
she was approached by Ultra and Inner terrestrial beings that taught her how
to more accurately read and translate the information she was able to access
from the akashic. They told her that they were preparing her to receive the
energies of her benefactor in the near future. In 1977, at Mt. Shasta she
was intriduced to her benefactor, and came to know him as Thoth Hermes
Trismesgistus (Tehuti). Since that time Thoth has given her a great deal of
information, much on the Inner earth in the early years. Later information
involves bringing ancient principles of alchemy and sacred knowledge into
the current time frame to reinstate it in the planetary consciousness. As I
mentioned previously on this post, simply by translating this information
into printed form as this current time it reweaves the thread within the
available 'database' for others to access whether they ever come into direct
contact with the material or not.
At this current time the core information available is in a 3 volume set of
compiled back issues of a Sacred Doctrine of Mysteries originally called the
Source when started in 1980, and now called Temple Doors. We still produce
this publication quarterly. The 3 volume set takes one from 1980 to 1992,
and then there are individual back issues available from that point. We hope
to compile a 4th volume to bring the set current before years end. At this
time we do not have a structured curriculum, but have plans to develop that
as resources become available. We intend to make the 'structured curriculum'
as experiential as possible, perhaps using the media of audio and video tape
to assist the process. We feel that learning from books can only open the
door to the greater mystery, one has to venture through the portal of their
own intent, commitment and ultimately their heart to truly gain the
experiential knowledge necessary to become the ultimate alchemist and
transform their own consciousness, form and all to a higher state of being.

An Introduction & Catalog of our organization and its available publications

/ tapes / services is available for A $5.00 requested donation to offset our
costs. If the $5.00 is a problem for anyone truly seeking the information,
they can contribute what they may, conversely if prosperity has shone upon
you then any additonal donations are always welcome to help us to continue
to provide the information to those less fortunate. We do accept Visa /
MasterCard for those who wish to use that convenience.
You can order by sending the request to: Johannine Grove
P.O. 235
Crestone, CO 81131
or calling (719) 256-4057
or e-mailing johgrove@rmii.com
blessings, Simeon
Fri Mar 08 09:40:55 1996
Subject: 0425 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: Patrick J. Smith
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:15:30 -0700
OISPEGGY wrote:
> ...When I drive my truck the gas (matter) is turned into
> energy and my truck moves...
Actually, if you carefully collect the exhaust from your truck's
tailpipe, and weigh it against the gasoline you've lost, you'll find
they weigh almost the same. Very, very little of the matter will have
been converted to energy.
To illustrate, suppose you're driving down Rt 3 at 60mph, and further
suppose that your truck gets 10 miles to the gallon, and develops 200
horsepower in the process. Then, in 10 minutes you'll have lost a
gallon of gas, and dissipated 200 x 330,000 = 66,000,000 ft Lbs of
energy, which is roughly 7x10^14 ergs (which seems like a lot).
Now, invoking Einstein's famous formula of mass-energy equivalence:
E = 1.1x10^15 ergs = mc^2; or m = about 1 micro-gram.
In other words, only about one-millionth of a gram of mass was
converted to energy by burning that gallon of gas. The rest was
converted to exhaust.
> ...Energy turning into matter seems less common to
> me. When does that occur? Can anyone give me examples?
By reversing the above arguement, you can see that it requires an
enormous amount of energy to produce a very small mass. One example
that no one has mentioned yet is the conversion of a gamma ray quantum
into an electron-positron pair (Gamma radiation is extremely high
energy electromagnetic energy---like light, only much higher energy).
In the case of the absorption of the sun's light by plants, it's true
that the mass of the plant is thereby increased. But the effect is so
small that it cannot be measured.

> ...What benefit is there to the universe that my truck is in a

> different position, when energy is lost forever. (It is lost forever,
> isn't it?)
Technically, the energy isn't lost. It just appears in different
forms---mostly as heat energy in the air and ground. But in a sense
it is lost: in its original form (potential chemical energy) it could
be used to do work (move your truck); but in its final form (heated
gases) it cannot be used to do useful work. The original form is a
relatively organized state. The final form is a very disordered state
(the random motions of gas molecules). The second law of
thermodynamics states that all physical phenomena procede in this way;
i.e., they increase the amount of disorder (or entropy) of the
universe. And when the universe reaches the state of maximum
disorder, no physical phenomena will be possible. But not to worry,
that won't happen for billions of years. But if you could find a way
to gather up that randomized heat energy and use it to move your
truck, you would have constructed what's popularly known as a
perpetual motion machine---a device which the second law states is
impossible, and, Joseph Neumann and Keely enthusiasts notwithstanding,
has never been convincingly demonstrated. This is, in fact, one of
the criteria the patent office has long used for rejecting patent
applications.
On the other hand, the earth is open to the sun's energy, and because
of this continual influx of solar energy, life (which is a dissipater
of energy) has been able to evolve and increase. In fact, the energy
stored in that gallon of gas was, millions of years ago, solar energy
shining down on a primeval swamp forest.
> So, what is it alchemists ingest to supplement and fortify their
> bodies? It can't be merely food (matter), or a good diet alone would
> do the trick. It must be energy, captured somehow...
The great physicist Bose pointed out that, in the living realm, the
problem is not energy. Energy is all around us, constantly, in
various forms. The struggle is for a highly organized form of
energy---what he called neg-entropy. And this is presumably what a
good diet provides, among other things. So one will have to look
elsewhere for immortality. But note that, because a living being is
an "open" system (takes in food, etc. and eliminates waste), there is
no physical requirement that we must age...
-Patrick
Fri Mar 08 09:41:05 1996
Subject: 0426 Albigeois & alchemy
From: Barry Carter
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 22:42:25 +0000
Dear Jason,
A woman named Lucile Taylor Hansen wrote one of the definitive books
on "Quetzacoatl travelling the world and spreading civilisation". It
is called "He Walked the Americas" and it contends that Jesus did not
die on the cross but rather walked the Americas as Quetzacoatl etc.

I don't know if this book is still in print.

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From: Jason Johns

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 00:39:38 PST
Dear All,
I read with great interest, Patrick J Smith's posting on Dragons and the Greek
legend regardin Typhon.
I am really intrigued by this as it matches quite closely to something I
have been researching. Where and when does this legend originate from?
I sounds (to me anyway) that this could be a tale created to describe a great
cataclysm that occured. Possibly the last great flood (approx 10-15000BC?
And then it describes how man got over it all. Such people as Osiris,
Quetzacoatl travelling the world and spreading civilisation.
I would appreciate anyone who knows any more of these tales to let me know
them as I can put them to good use!
Best regards
Jayzn
[Jason.Johns.RXUK@eur.xerox.com]

Barry Carter
Blue Mountain Native Forest Alliance
Voice 541-523-3357
Fax 541-523-9438
The road to hell is paved with good inventions.
Fri Mar 08 16:17:34 1996
Subject: 0427 Newton's Alchem
From: Manwing
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 05:20:28 -0500
Thank you for the information on Dobbs' books. I have the Janus Faces of
Genius (easy to find). I have all the information that you sent about The
Foundations of Newton's Alchemy. The problem is that the book is out of
print. I have several book-finding services working on this problem but so
far with no luck. I was hoping to reach a broader audience and perhaps find
someone who knows where I might actually get a copy. I appreciate your
effort.
Fri Mar 08 16:19:13 1996
Subject: 0428 Locating the prima materia/healing dew
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 06:39:11 -0500
From: Maury
On Feb 8, 1996, Patrick Smith wrote:

>>...The image of `condensing the Universal Spirit' has been depicted

symbolically as the collection of dew (a condensate which seemed to the
ancient philosophers to materialize out of the vastness of the calm, clear,
night sky). Dew thus represented the Universal Spirit in its condensed form.
Some took this symbol literally, and spent their lives collecting dew from
the fields...<<
Patrick has provided many further amplifications of the idea of the prima
materia in his fine post. There are many rich ideas to which I would like to
respond, but given my time restraints, I can add only a few further
amplifications on the subject of "dew" - its a further addition to the theme
of locating the prima materia.
In alchemical philosophy, my understanding is that the essence of the
heavenly Sol descends into the flower - earth's anhr>
Thu Mar 07 0 countenance. In Robert Fludd's work, and one can see a fine illustr
ation of
this idea in the frontpiece of Fludd's *Summum bonum* (1629) (See Paul M.
Allen's *A Christian Rosencreutz Anthology,* p. 204 for the illustration).
The solar quality has also survived in the symbol of the "golden flower" of
Chinese alchemy (The strength of the _aqua permanens_ is also called _flos_
in the *Turba,* and was used by later alchemists to express the mystical
transforming substance). The golden brillance of the sun had to submit to a
descent, and found its analogy in the glitter of earthly gold as _aurum
nostrum_, not, however, in the gross materiality of the metal. This process
is depicted most vividly in the 1550 alchemical text, the *Rosarium
philosophorum.* This phenomenal synoptic text covers the whole field of
alchemy at the time and is extensively quoted in later alchemical literature.
The text can be seen as a paradigm of this leading idea in alchemy, that is,
"locating the prima materia," as it assimilates "dew" and "cross" symbolism
in its alchemical opus [cf. Patrick mentions in his post, "The hieroglyph of
this Stone is the cross..."].
For those unfamiliar with this extraordinary text [Adam has written a very
fine brief commentary to the treatise when he published the English
translation], I'll first briefly describe it. This description is drawn from
various sources. The word _rosarium_ means both "rosary" and "rosegarden."
As many of you know, in the Church the rosary is a string of beads on which
religious prayers are counted as a kind of devotional meditative exercise
involving a cycle of formal prayers together with subjects for meditation
selected from the mysteries of the life of Christ or the Virgin Mary. The
Rosarium text is laid out in an analogous way - a series of 20 illustrations,
followed by amplificatory quotes and analogies from the great alchemists,
used as meditative exercises describing the preparation of the Philosopher's
Stone - the whole forms a rosary of selected blossoms, a cluster of symbols
associated with the sacred hieros gamos, i.e., a dense network of symbolic
images all clustering around the alchemical opus. The other meaning, that of
the mystic "rosegarden" was associated with the symbolic attributes of the
Virgin Mary and the taming of the unicorn (=Mercurius; as Patrick pointed to
in his post) by a virgin in the garden. From a psychological perspective, it
introduces the idea of the individual's encounter with the archetype of
Wisdom. There is a double meaning here - as there is with almost all
alchemical images - the rosarium is the enclosed garden/sealed vessel where
one finds Sapientia, and it is also Mary in whose body Christ takes shape Christ being the parallel to the _rubedo_ (=rose) or Philosopher's Stone.
The Rosarium then, is an account of the activation of the opposites, of
contraries, and their transformation. These opposites or "animosity," the
dual elements or "bodies" or principles, personified as King and Queen,

undergo a number of phases of their mystico-erotic relationship and

eventually unite in a new, androgynous being, called "the noble Empress," or
Wisdom (in figure 10). The "animosity" can only be bridged or converted into
"love" by a mediator; some element in between, yet it must be common to both
participants in the process. I will briefly summarize the process, somewhat
psychologically, and then examine the particular image of "dew." For the
sake of clarity and brevity, the following is a summary of only the first ten
images of the treatise.
The process starts with a fountain, symbolizing the activated energy of
transformation and continues with the meeting of the King and Queen. The
partners immerse themselves in an alchemical bath - allowing love (or enmity)
to engulf them, and blotting out other considerations. In a state of
passionate engulfment, psychosexual union takes place. This union results in
death; loss and dissolution. The result of love is not viable and undergoes
decomposition and putrefaction. At this point, it is the force of commitment
to the process (not necessarily to a partner) and its transformational work
that becomes all important. The soul ascends to heaven, the body is washed
in celestial dew. The soul returns and reanimates the corpse which stands in
its full, numinous glory. A new being is born - the transfigured
consciousness of the lovers. It is a process of unitive transformation for
reconciling opposites.
Figure 8 (Washing or Mundification) in the Rosarium text presents us with an
image of a dead united body lying on a mortuary slab. Above is a cloud, and
we are told by the text, that "dew" (_ros_) starts dripping from the cloud.
The epigram appended to the image is:
Here the dew falleth from heaven,
And washeth the black body in the sepulchre.
A movement is initiated from above downward (this is opposite the previous
figure which was from below upward). The text calls this "Gideon's dew."
Whenever a specific mythological reference is made in an alchemical text, we
can take that to mean that it is especially important. This isn't any old
dew, it's Gideon's dew - that would be telling the alchemist who is
performing this "experiment" that you are living out the myth of Gideon (see
Judges 6:36ff.).
At that time, Israel was then occupied by a foreign power - the Mideonites who had imposed an alien religion and were sacrificing to their gods to
demonstrate their occupying status. In that situation, Yahweh visited
Gideon, the youngest of his family - and he told him to take his father's
young bull, pull down the altar of the alien god (Baal), and cut down the
sacred post beside it. Then build an altar to Yahweh and take the bull and
offer it as a holocaust (burnt offering) to Yahweh, using the wood of the
sacred post. And Gideon did what he was told to do - he did it at night
because it was dangerous, and he was almost killed for it - but he got away
with that - but the spirit of Yahweh came to him again and told him to gather
an army and start a rebellion - but Gideon was very resistant to do that - it
was very dangerous - so he remonstrated with God about that and told him: "If
you really intend to deliver Israel through me as you said - I'll place a
fleece of wool on the threshing floor - if dew falls on the fleece and all
the ground remains dry, then I shall know that You will deliver Israel
through me, as You have said." And that's what happened. Indeed, he even
tested God a second time and reversed the procedure, so that the fleece had
to be dry and the ground wet with dew. And that happened, too.
Gideon puts Yahweh to the test to check out whether its an authentic call.
To put this psychologically, Gideon has a psychological attitude that seeks

to do justice to the unconscious - it's kind of like the difference between a

practical psychology based on signs and literal meanings, and a psychology
based on symbols [Also brought out in Patrick's post]. The text seems to say
that rescue cannot take place on abstract, intellectual knowledge alone, you
need the element of divine intervention - grace - the dew - a miraculous
agent of healing grace that is paradoxical - its moisture is enlivening and
yet it operates in a dimension outside rationality.
In the Rosarium, this _solutio_ [washing] process emphasizes its power to
answer questions, to provide a solution to problems - and most important, as
has been restated in posts on this Forum, the alchemists thought that the
opus demanded not only laboratory work, reading books, meditation, and
patience, but also love. Only a feeling-relationship to the contents of
whatever is under scrutiny imparts an abiding value to anything one has
understood. The alchemists seemed aware that intellectual understanding and
aestheticism both produce the deceptive, treacherous sense of liberation and
superiority which is liable to collapse if feeling intervenes (Since this
Forum's inception, we are witness to numerous examples and variations of this
in vitro). Feeling always binds one to the reality and meaning of symbolic
contents, and these in turn impose binding standards of ethical behavior from
which aestheticism and intellectualism are only too ready to emancipate
themselves. This consideration, I believe, is what is hinted at in this
alchemical treatise. Indeed, this is a crucial matter today, especially for
those who still believe that intellectual insight and routine understanding,
or even mere recollection, are enough to effect a cure of our psychological
dissociation.
The image of healing in the Rosarium is the image of "dew" - its what can
follow death, despair, hopelessness, and the separation that are pictured in
the two previous Rosarium figures. The dew descends, purifies, and
revivifies the dead body. This is the alchemical process of the
_mundificatio_, of purification [I believe Jon raised the discussion of the
motif of "purification" in previous posts]. With the soul separated from the
body, and the body in its separate dissociated state, it undergoes a process
of purification. One could interpret this psychologically, that is, by
thinking of the body symbolically as representing a psychological entity not a concrete, literal body - it refers to the ego - the ego is the body of
the psyche. What has taken place now is a purification of that dead ego by
the divine "dew" that's falling on it. The ego is to be purified from
contamination with the unconscious (in its many manifestations - ideational,
emotional, instinctual, ego-self identity, etc.).
From the perspective of depth psychology, the "dew" symbol is part of the
alchemical operation of _mundificatio_, the process of differentiating the
ego from the unconscious, a necessary condition for the return of the soul to
the body. From this perspective, it is this contamination, this admixture,
which once located, is the prima materia. The body then, is necessary if the
unconscious is not to have destructive effects on ego-consciousness, for it
is the body that gives bounds to the personality. The unconscious can be
integrated only if the ego (=Gideon) holds its ground (i.e., the
feeling-relationship). The alchemist's endeavor to unite the purified body
with the soul as pictured in the Rosarium text is also the endeavor of the
modern psychotherapist once he or she has succeeded in freeing his or her
ego-consciousness from contamination with the unconscious. It comes about
through separation of the ordinary ego-personality from all the inflationary
admixtures of unconscious material. This task entails the most painstaking
self-examination and self-education, which can, however, be passed on to
others by one who has acquired the discipline oneself. According to the
text, the process of differentiation is no light work; it
needs the tenacity and patience of the alchemist, who must purify the body

from all the superfluities in the fiercest heat of the furnace.

It can be surmised from the Rosarium that the alchemists seemed to have
understood that a radical understanding of this kind is impossible without a
human partner. A general and merely academic "insight into one's mistakes"
is ineffectual, for then the mistakes are not really seen at all, only the
idea of them. But they show up acutely when a human relationship brings them
to the fore and when they are noticed by the other person as well as by
oneself. Then and only then can they really be felt and their true nature
recognized.
Maury
Fri Mar 08 16:20:15 1996
Subject: 0429 Taoist Pearls
From: WTHEISEN
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 9:43:36 -0600 (CST)
There is a book, Alchemy, medicine and Religion in the China of
A.D. 320 the Nei P'ien of Ko Hung, translated and edited by James
r. WAre that you might find of interest.
Fri Mar 08 16:21:02 1996
Subject: 0430 Newton's Alchemy
From: WTHEISEN
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 9:40:34 -0600 (CST)
Do you want to buy the book about Newton's alchemy or just read
it? Our library and I suspect most libraries have a copy of the
book, but I am sure it is now out of print.
Fri Mar 08 16:21:39 1996
Subject: 0431 Conversion of energy to matter
From: WTHEISEN@tiny.computing.csbsju.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 9:46:17 -0600 (CST)
Dear Peggy,
There is the process of pair production in physics that is a
transformation of energy into matter: if a photon of energy
has a sufficient amount of energy, about .5 MEV it can
produce two leptons, I believe, a positron and an electron.
Fri Mar 08 16:22:25 1996
Subject: 0432 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: WTHEISEN
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 9:51:56 -0600 (CST)
Dear Peggy,
Your speculations are not at all irrelevant, and should be pursued.
They seem to be on the edge of the concern about the relation
between spirit and matter, well worth the effort. I think

this is THE current issue in the debate about freedom and the
difference between brain and mind and soul.
Regards, Wilfred
Fri Mar 08 16:23:14 1996
Subject: 0433 (Was: matter/energy) now: Why do we age?
From: OISPEGGY
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 10:14:26 -0500 (EST)
Patrick:
>But note that, because a living being is
>an "open" system (takes in food, etc. and eliminates waste), there is
>no physical requirement that we must age...
Then why do we age? What is it that alchemists do that stops aging?
Regards,
- Peggy oispeggy@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
PS: Thanks to all who have responded to my inquiries with so many
interesting comments. Since few have email addresses in
their sigs I cannot send thanks individually in email, so I'm
slipping it in here.
Fri Mar 08 16:24:40 1996
Subject: 0434 Albigeois & alchemy
From: John Obrien
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 09:56:16 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Barry Carter > Dear Jason,

A woman named Lucile Taylor Hansen wrote one of the definitive books
on "Quetzacoatl travelling the world and spreading civilisation". It
is called "He Walked the Americas" and it contends that Jesus did not
die on the cross but rather walked the Americas as Quetzacoatl etc.

Part of that is what we (Mormons) believe. That he was known as

Quetzacoatl, not that he did not die on the cross.
,o888b,`?~~~~~ ~~~~~P',d888o,
,8888 888 ?~~~ John D. O'Brien obriens@sound.net ~~~P 888 8888,
8888888P' ~~~ ~~~ ?8888888
888P' ~~~ "When all the World recognizes ~~~ `?888
`88 O d~~~ good as good, This in itself ~~~b O 88'
`?._ _.o~~~~~ is Evil." Lao Tsu ~~~~~o._ _.P'
Fri Mar 08 16:26:19 1996
Subject: 0435 True Alchemy
From: John E. Myers
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 8:22:48 EST5EDT

>From: OISPEGGY@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
>Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:20:32 -0500 (EST)
>
>I have read of the Bardo, in _Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines_.
>Although the esoteric is fascinating in its own right, my studies
>also have a practical side. I wish to avoid becoming lost in the
>Bardo or the labrynth, or the sea, or the Scajaquada (Rte.33), or
>whatever other wasteful energy patterns occur after death. This
>bug has been buzzing around the light (to the tune of the Beatles,
>"This Boy" only insert "this bug") for too long. There must be
>a better way.
There is. :)
J.E.M.
/ "All things come to * *
myersj@gactr.uga.edu / he who waits." * * * *
alt.immortal / I have time. * * *
* * * *
* *
Fri Mar 08 16:27:17 1996
Subject: 0436 Matter and Energy and Alchemy
From: OISPEGGY
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 10:01:48 -0500 (EST)
Peggy:
>Yes, well good for the infinite, but what's in it for *me*?
Logodox:
>Nothing while You are YOU, since the real You is the One infinite being, all
>else is illusion. The universe doesn't care about You any more than it
>cares about me. Its much bigger than US! The more one perpetuates his
>separate "self" the further he travels from the "gate":
Yes, yes, I've read that many times before. It seems to be what all
the experts say. Little consolation in that. I suspect that most of them
started out from the "what's in it for me" perspective too. The problem
with the solution is that it requires destroying oneself (the ego anyway)
which is not appealing, particularly because the ego had a lot to do with
starting the endeavor in the firstplace. Think of all the years it took
to get a well-functioning ego in place and how essential it is to have
one in order to function well in society. Do I have to get rid of it
entirely, or just learn to use it as a tool? (A tool of what is the next
question.) Its like burning the bridge out from under oneself. One could
burn up with the bridge and spin off into mental illnesses or other
dysfunctional states. (From the many occultists I've observed, particularly
those who started very young, this is a real danger.) There is no guarantee
of safe passage.
>Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way unto life,
In my chats with the universe I have pointed out that this is not
a very good system (from my point of view) because it has a
severe bottleneck, and I would never let a system like this go into
production -- but the universe doesn't listen. I would never let
the universe run payroll -- guaranteed it would make a big, fat mess

out of it....grumble, grumble...

>and few there be that find it !
So it seems. A bottleneck. Is this a design flaw or is there a
reason for it? What are those stuck in the bottleneck supposed
to be doing? Spinning around and around until we get it right?
>Nature loves children, figure out why...
Let's see.... I have a 3 year old, and I still remember what it was like
to be a child, so I can say something about this. I can still wail and
whine and say "mine!" mine!" as I do to the universe, like any selfrespecting 3 year old, but I feel silly doing this and I think other
people look silly doing it too. (This is what they all look like to me,
all over the world, fighting about this and that.) The great part about
children IMO is that they do not have the layers of socialization that
distances them from experience. I think they experience more directly
and live more in the moment. This (IMO) is what gives them their
tremendous energy. Doing things for the first time, too, they are
often lost in awe and wonder over simple things like the taste of
pizza with olives or the softness of a rabbit.
- Peggy Sat Mar 09 10:22:48 1996
Subject: 0437 alchemy and heresy
From: WTHEISEN
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:00:06 -0600 (CST)
Dear Jon,
Can you give me the sources for the decrees against the practice
of alchemy in the British monasteries? I know of only two
decrees where the reasons for the prohibition of alchemy were
given: the decree of Pope John XII (against counterfeiting) and
the decree of Nicholas Eymerich in 1396, which condemned alchemy
because it was demonic. The Dominican general chapters condemned
alchemy throughout the 14th century, but their decrees never
gave any reasons for its condemnation.
Regards, Wilfred
Sat Mar 09 10:24:02 1996
Subject: 0438 crocodiles
From: John Obrien
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 10:05:18 -0600 (CST)
> > I am still baffled by the presence of stuffed crocodiles hanging in
> > apothecary/alchemical laboratories. What were they used for? What was the
> > symbolism attached to them? Any help in my search for more info would be
>
I'm inclined to think that they may be there as a resemblance of the
ouroboros. At least that is what I came up with when I took a few
seconds to think about it. Any comments?
John D. O'Brien obriens@sound.net

Sat Mar 09 10:25:15 1996

Subject: 0439 Albigeois & alchemy
From: p-smith@nemesis.SLC.Unisysgsg.COM (Patrick J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 11:56:26 -0700

Jason Johns asked about the origin of the Greek legend of Typhon.
Most likely, it originated in the following historical events:
Western civilization traces its aesthetic, intellectual and democratic
traditions back to classical Greece. But in the 15th century BC,
Greece was inhabited by relatively primitive Helladic tribes, while
the Minoan civilization flourished in sun-washed cities on Crete and
on the island of Stronghyli, now known as Thera. The Minoans
possessed a sophisticated form of writing, air-conditioned their homes
by channeling cool breezes into them, and their artisans created
graceful vases and other works of art. In the Aegean Sea, between the
coasts of Greece and present day Turkey, about 70 miles north of
Crete, lay the beautiful island of Stronghyli. It had an active
sea-port and merchant fleet, and there were terraced vineyards with
canals. In the center of the island stood the sacred mountain, and
the people bathed in the warm springs that flowed from it, and they
consulted the oracles in the exhalations that poured from clefts and
fissures in its side. But late in the 15th century, at the height of
its strength and glory, the Minoan civilization abruptly vanished.
Archaeological excavations have revealed that all the Minoan cities
were wiped out at the same time by an immense cataclysm. All of the
red-columned palaces that once had stood above the Aegean had been
destroyed, their building stones scattered.
In about the year 1400 BC, the 4900-foot mountain in the center of
Stronghyli exploded in the greatest volcanic eruption in history. The
wind had been blowing from the northwest and spread ash over an
80,000-square-mile area, mostly to the southeast. When the fiery rain
ceased, the hollowed out mountain fell into its magma chamber 1200
feet below sea level, creating a vast crater into which the ocean
poured. Immense tidal waves rushed outwards at 200 miles-per-hour,
and the coast of Crete was smashed by successive walls of water 100
feet high. Less than three hours later the Egyptian delta was
engulfed, and the ancient port of Ugarit in Syria was drowned. The
heavy fallout of volcanic ash filled Crete's fertile valleys,
destroyed the crops and rendered agriculture impossible for decades.
Almost the entire Minoan race perished. And all that was left of
Stronghyli was a blackened crescent, buried beneath 100 feet of
volcanic ash.
Those few scattered survivors who had managed to reach high mountains,
or were on distant voyages, fled to western Crete, and from there
northward to Mycenae on the nearby shores of Greece, which had not
suffered from the volcanic fallout because of the northwest wind. The
results of this migration were quickly apparent in the flowering of
Mycenaean civilization, about 1400 BC, when the written history of
Greece begins. Thus the cataclysmic events of that summer's day long
ago in the Aegean Sea changed the course of world history, and gave
rise to Western civilization.

Centuries later, Plato wrote the story of the destruction of Atlantis

which, some have conjectured, originated in the still partly
remembered destruction of the Minoan civilization. In the story,
Solon, an Athenian lawmaker on a visit to Egypt in 590 BC, was told by
Egyptian priests that he and his fellow athenians were the seed or
remnant of a former fair race which had disappeared in a single day
and night of earthquakes and floods during which the island of
Atlantis had sank beneath the sea. But the size of Atlantis was much
too large to fit in the Aegean; Plato had placed it in the Atlantic
(beyond the Pillars of Hercules, now known as the Straits of
Gibralter), and the time of destruction was set at 9000 years before
Solon's time. But there are two promontories on the coast of Greece
near Crete also called "Pillars of Hercules," and it has been
suggested that Solon misread the Egyptian symbol for "100" as "1000",
which would have put the size and date about right.
It has even been suggested that the Stronghyli cataclysm caused the
Biblical Ten Plagues in northern Egypt (red rain, darkened skies,
etc). According to these highly speculative accounts, the enslaved
Israelites tooke advantage of the confusion to begin their epic
migration. Some Egyptian records do point to such a catastrophy.
Reads one papyrus: "The land is utterly perished... the sun is veiled
and shines not."
-Patrick
Sat Mar 09 10:29:26 1996
Subject: 0440 Useless contributions and a bit on Taoist esotericism
From: tim scott
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 1996 13:57:33 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: John E. Myers

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 8:22:48 EST5EDT
>From: OISPEGGY@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
>Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 10:20:32 -0500 (EST)
>
>Although the esoteric is fascinating in its own right, my studies
>also have a practical side. I wish to avoid becoming lost in the
>Bardo or the labrynth, or the sea, or the Scajaquada (Rte.33), or
>whatever other wasteful energy patterns occur after death. This
>bug has been buzzing around the light (to the tune of the Beatles,
>"This Boy" only insert "this bug") for too long. There must be
>a better way.
There is. :)
J.E.M.

I apologize in advance for the flame that I now find myself unable to
resist writing. (But if I do, I'm sure Adam will quickly put me in my
place...) but with all due respect to Mr Myers, his response is worse
than useless. And personally, I find it additionally condescending and
fatuous, although I'm sure that was not its intent. I'm sorry, the
mini smiley does not redeem it. It just made me explode. So much for
the personal attack. I really feel OISPEGGY wrote a sincerely question
worthy of a better answer than that.
In the decades I've read alchemy and all things cognate, the thing that

maddened me the most was the lack of anything AT ALL practical about
the "dumpsters" full of books with "alchemy" in the titles. As I have
mentioned, you can pretty much enumerate the books that give you a way
to start working in ANY way with it on your thumbs: Albertus and Junius
...both with their own deficiencies, but that's another discussion. This
is where LPN/PON is a godsend: to provide the practical balance against
the endless spinning of theory and speculation.
You are probably thinking here: "then why don't you just sign off this
list and have done with it, or at least contribute something positive
of your own?" Well, I will in a minute, but let me quickly clarify one
more thing: most everyone still on the list (a few departures are
not missed, I think you know who I mean) is contributing wonderful
things: there are excellent references, discussions of obscure texts,
there was a great sequence on the Prima Materia recently, really too
much to enumerate. And that's why I look forward to the mailings from
the list.
So much for the soapbox. Sorry about the length of this, but it may
help reduce the amount of misunderstanding and ill will I generate.
ObAlchemy: I see there have several people who have expressed an
interest in Taoist/Chinese alchemy. I have been looking at that a lot
for the last few years, and will post some information periodically
depending on how much interest there is. I have become especially
interested in the magical/qi gong aspects of the study. For instance,
there is quite a bit of controversy about such works as the Can Tong
Ci (Ts'an T'ung Ch'i, perhaps "Triplex Unity"). In the 1932 Isis
article where it first appeared the authors thought it was a work of
metallic chemical alchemy, whereas later commentators (and there is a
new work on it) insist that that is not at all the case, but that it
is an occult manual of breathing and other qi gong exercises. In
a very exhaustive article by Stan Rosenthal about the Tao Teh Ching
he comments:
"The earliest known reference to Alchemy (in Eastern and Western
Literature) is in the 'Shi-chi', written about eighty-five B.C., but
the 'Chou'-i ts'an t'ung ch'i' of Wei Po-yang (c.200 A.D.) was probably
the first major alchemical text to use a Taoist work to this end, some
auhorities believeing the treatise to be a derivation of the I Ching.
This form of alchemy was referred to by the Philosophical Taoists as
'debased Taoism'."
(see http://www.cnu.edu/~patrick/taoism/ttc/tao-teh-ching.rosenthal.txt
for this whole article, and go up in the path for more taoist
goodies. In addition, for those interested, I cannot too strongly
recommend the excellent Chinese philosophy web page, starting at
http://mars.superlink.net/user/fsu)
The question is whether so-called Taoist alchemy, when approached as
a mystical process rather than a laboratory one (albeit with definite
exercises, postures, rituals, etc.) is magic(k), alchemy or something
else, and whether further discussion of it is apposite here.
Best regards,
Tim Scott
Sat Mar 09 10:29:07 1996
Subject: 0441 Locating the prima materia

From: calhhh
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 21:10:48 -0400
Dear Forum Members :
I have just received a copy of Maury's message dated
Fri. 08 Mar. on LOCATING THE PRIMA MATERIA, which among
other things mentioned the commentaries given by Patrick
Smith on his post of Feb.08th.
When I first joined this forum, circa Feb. 19th, and among
the first messages of which I received a copy was the posting
of LAPIS on the PRIMA MATERIA subject, in which I am very
interested, and about which I also posted a long message
yesterday March. 07th, which I still have not seen posted,
so I do not kwow if its transmission has been delayed by
the system, or if it was "moderated", or if the messages
posted by anyone are not sent back to the one who posted it
by the computer system.
Previous to my posting I tried to get from the forum adm. a
copy of previous messages on this subject, so as to avoid
repeating in the future something that other member might have
already said, but it was explained to me that this service
was not available, and that sometime in the future all of
the messages would be posted on the Alchemical Virtual Library
Home Page.
Therefore, and due to my increased interest caused by Maury's
extremely stimulating response based on previous post,
I am writing to all of you who participated to ask you if you
please be so kind as to send me a copy of the previous posts
on LOCATING THE PRIMA MATERIA. Your help will be truly and
enormously appreciated.
Just to end, I will repeat my deep appreciation for the excellent
service provided by Mr. McLean, as well as for the enriching
messages posted by the members which in many ocassions give
ample evidence of their deep knowledge of both the practical and
theoretical parts of our Sacred Art of Alchemy, which evidently is
flourishing, and of which I am only a beginning student and admirer.
Best Regards to All,
ORCIS
calhhh@mail.pananet.com
Sat Mar 09 10:30:22 1996
Subject: 0442 "Matter-Energy" spin-off
From: RawnClark
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 19:26:37 -0500
Dear Peggy,
I read with great concern the exchange between yourself and Logodox, and

so I offer the following comments (their value is 2 cents! ).

Logodox: >>>"Nothing while You are YOU, since the real You is the One
infinite being, all else is illusion."<<<
This statement is a common one, but when pulled apart, it says little
essentially. You are you at all levels, not just at the most ephemeral...and
that's no illusion. The difference between the "One infinite being" and
"you"
is merely a matter of perspective, or location of conscious awareness. While
our conscious awareness is centered in a physical body, we do not directly
perceive ourselves as this infinite being, but we are no less the infinite.
Futhermore, this statement implies that all but the infinte is illusion, or
unreal, a chimera (continue this line of thought as an equation, and it ends up
that the infinite is an illusion!). This philiosophy, taken to heart, can be
very
counter productive and flies in the face of experience, often leading to a
sense of irresponsibility in who and how we are in the world. It denies the
fact that the world is a very real place where we pass through very real
experiences. It tends to slide into misplaced moral judgments of
physical=bad and spiritual=good. This, IMO, is the real illusion, the
genuine
"sin" of duality, since it takes us from integration to opposition with the
universe *as it exists*.
As you point out, this philosophy leads to: "The problem with the solution is
that it requires destroying oneself (the ego anyway)..."
Much of the problem with this philosophy is that it denies us our starting
place, the raw material with which we must begin our work. It calls illusion
what is in fact our Prima Materia, in a spiritual-alchemy sense. Our Ore,
from which we craft our Stone (again in a spiritual-alchemy sense), is this
very ego-self. By this, I mean, who one is at the moment (our arbitrary
starting point); all the good parts and all the unsavory parts, rolled into
one.
Alchemy teaches us that Putrefaction is the first step, and in the spiritual
pursuit of alchemy, this means looking within and taking stock of the
entirety
of who we are...examining the personality especially, since this is the
grossest expression of such. This introspection requires a radical selfhonesty, and eventually leads to the purification of the personality. This
purification is nothing other than the conscious crafting of a personality
that
better expresses one's more essential Self. When (or as) the personality is
regenerated, other layers of self emerge and the process is repeated with
their inclusion. One step follows another, but without the base of our
stairway, we risk toppling over.
In this way, there is no loss of self, but an expansion of self. No burning
of
bridges, but a building of bridges.
You ask:>>"Do I have to get rid of it [the ego] entirely, or just learn to
use it
as a tool? (A tool of what is the next question.)"<<
This aspect of self is a tool for the Whole Self's expression in the material
realm...there is no disconnection of one realm from another, but a
continuous, unbroken flow. However, our conscious awareness is generally

limited to the physical. The point of a spiritual discipline is to expand

our
conscious awareness to include the Whole of Self (ultimately), being careful
to NOT disassociate our selves from ANY part of who we are in toto. Such a
disassociation can lead to the mental illness you mentioned.
You write:>>>"There is no guarantee of safe passage."<<
Logodox writes:>>>"Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way unto life,
and few there be that find it !"<< & >>>"The universe doesn't care about You
any more than it cares about me. Its much bigger than US! "<<
My experience is that these are very limited and limiting assumptions. My
experience is that the Universe is much Grander that these assumptions
imply. I have come to a very deep and intimate Love, Respect, Devotion,
Faith, Worship....I've run out of capitalizable words, and none of them
suffice
my meaning!.....for this Infinite Universe of Self, and say that it is Alive,
Immanent, and minutely Self-Conscious. I have absolutely no doubt that we
each succeed in reaching our Ultimate Goal. We each are this Infinite
Universe....Guidence is intimately woven into the fabric of each and every
moment of our existence...though it is so intimately a part of our
experience,
that we seldom name it Guidence! Do you see the color of your own eyes
when you look out through them? Each time we define the Infinite, we limit
the Infinite; but define the Infinite, we must, for that is the Nature of a
physical existence. The Art, is in remembering that each assumption which
limits is *also* un-true. The Infinite encompasses all polarities; so each
polarization that we humans arbitrarily define, exists *with* its opposite,
*within* the Infinite.
So says Rawn, at any rate. ;-)
Logodox writes:>>>"The more one perpetuates his separate "self" the further
he travels from the "gate":"<<
Can you guess what I have to say here?? This is both true and un-true... ;)
My experience is that the uniqueness of the individual is the doorway to the
more inclusive levels of self awareness. Our separateness at the physical
level is certainly only a part of the Whole picture, but a definite part
nonetheless, and a part which we dare not deny or belittle. It is where we
must begin, and conversely, where we must end. We expand inward and
express outward, and mix the Elements of Self -- bringing what is within,
without; and what is whithout, within. Higher levels of Self-Awareness
*include* the physical; without them, there would be no physical.
I would restate what Logodox wrote thusly: The more one separates one's
separate self from the Whole, the harder it is to find the gate; which is of
course, to be found within the separate self which attaches itself to the
Whole. ;-) That's Hermetic Zen!
Please understand that all of the above is *my* experience and *my* opinion,
and I in no way mean to denegrate the experience and opinion of either you
or Logodox. I could well be wrong!!! Even so, all I have to offer is *my*
experience and opinion.
Best to you!
:) Rawn Clark
8 Mar 96
Sun Mar 10 14:13:23 1996

Subject: 0447 Carbon from the sun?

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 09 Mar 96 12:15:22 EST
OISPEGGY wrote:
>The sun's energy is converted to matter via plants and the plants nourish the
animals. All life on the planet relies on the sun. Carbon is from the sun,
right? What is meant by us being carbon based? (I've heard that said. ) What% of
our bodies is carbon, the element of the sun? What does that mean?<
It is right that the solar energy makes possible the construction of the whole
organic matter in the end. Indeed one may not say that carbon is from the sun.
Carbon as component of organic compounds originates from the earth and the air.
It is the carbon dioxide of the air, which reacts with water and other chemical
elements from the floor under influence of the sunlight and forms the diverse
chemical compounds of all organic bodies. Carbon is thus just as little an
element from the sun as the remaining elements in the body.
The sun is the active mover of the physical processes. Its energy is in the
beginning of the formation of bursting with energy substances, which make
possible the life on our earth. This is the material, physical and chemical
aspect of life.
There is however an other side of life, which often is little considered: the
metaphysical aspect of life. Here too the sun plays an important role. It
invisibly mediates the solar fluid, which flows into the material world as
positive polarity of the "spiritus mundi". The moon in his invisible form
mediates the lunar fluid as negative polarity of the universal spirit. The
metaphysical aspect of life works in the concealed bodies of the creatures. The
conscious power of mind as well as the powers of the soul are supplied with the
spiritus mundi. As organizing principles they care for it, that the physical
manifestations of the individual creatures are viable.
Thus from the sphere of causality the intelligent energy comes, which
materializes itself in increasing material form. Originally all material
elements of our planet emerged from nuclear reactions in stars. The carbon of
our earth originally is thus of stellar origin. However this happened, still
long before physical life developed on our earth. Since beginning of time of
life on earth the elementary carbon has survived and is no more newly created
from the sun. As chemical element of the earth it is the earthly matrix, in
which the visible and invisible energies flow. The same is valid for all
remaining chemical elements. Because no direct changes happen more with the
chemical elements, the chemical processes can be very exactly described by
chemistry.
If it is successful however to impregnate matter with the fluids beyond it, so
materials are attained, which trigger effects going beyond chemistry. Alchemy
describes such effects and processes, which thus includes more than chemistry.
The latter only describes material processes.
Lapis
Sun Mar 10 14:13:33 1996
Subject: 0448 Practice of the "Rosarium philosophorum"
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 09 Mar 96 12:15:28 EST

Dear Maury,
You very beautifully describe and interpret the first figures of the "Rosarium
philosophorum". Your interpretation is worth considering from a psychological
view.
However there is a fully other approach. It is of course sober, however it can
well be brought in accordance with the alchemical work.
If you pursue the wet way of alchemy, you receive three substances: a volatile
spirit (mercury), an oily substance (Sulfur) and a salt (Sal). Joined in the
right quantitative ratio they dissolve and form a yellowish fluid. From it the
philosophical mercury can be distilled - the "wife".
One way to the stone of the philosophers exists now therein to dissolve calcined
gold in the philosophical mercury. Symbolically you unite "man" and "wife".
After that the resulting fluid is digested in the first degree of the fire. A
part of the fluid distills in the upper cool part of the flask. There the drops
condense and trickle down like dew etc. The whole process of the rework as
actual events begins to run down in the hermetically locked egg of the
philosophers. If you try graphically to describe the phenomenological events, so
you get as a possible description the "rose garden of the philosophers".
In other words: This famous alchemical book is a graphic description of the
practical process to the stone of the philosophers, more exactly to the rework.
Naturally one can psychologically interpret the pictures. However the essential
is a practical process, which runs down on the material level in this case. To
what extent a psychologization of material processes is however meaningful and
helps on in the practical alchemy is another question.
Distill ordinary spirit of wine. As long as highly concentrated alcohol
distills, you see little in the helmet. If water increasingly distills with the
alcohol, serpentine cords become visible in the helmet. Physically it deals with
changes of the surface tension of the distilling fluid which become visible. An
alchemist has graphically described this process once as follows: "Then let the
eagles fly. And if you see snakes appear in the helmet, so change the
recipient." If one knows that the word order "eagles fly" is called "distill",
the "snakes" in the helmet present the visible changes, so the description of an
ordinary distillation is not at all more so mythical and fantastic, how it
initially has seemed to be.
Today we have the aid of chemistry and physics to soberly describe material
processes. The alchemists did not have these aid. They had to grasp to a graphic
language to adequately describe their observations. If you read alchemical
texts, so you must conversely go ahead. You must try to translate the graphic
ideas in concrete physical-chemical processes. Of course this breaks the spell
on the beautiful pictures, however brings success in reality. If you take in the
products of your practical work, so you begin to dream of the pictures. The
circle closes again: Another manifestation of the Ouroboros.
Lapis
100667.1267@compuserve.com
Sun Mar 10 14:13:23 1996
Subject: 0447 Carbon from the sun?
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 09 Mar 96 12:15:22 EST

OISPEGGY wrote:
>The sun's energy is converted to matter via plants and the plants nourish the
animals. All life on the planet relies on the sun. Carbon is from the sun,
right? What is meant by us being carbon based? (I've heard that said. ) What% of
our bodies is carbon, the element of the sun? What does that mean?<
It is right that the solar energy makes possible the construction of the whole
organic matter in the end. Indeed one may not say that carbon is from the sun.
Carbon as component of organic compounds originates from the earth and the air.
It is the carbon dioxide of the air, which reacts with water and other chemical
elements from the floor under influence of the sunlight and forms the diverse
chemical compounds of all organic bodies. Carbon is thus just as little an
element from the sun as the remaining elements in the body.
The sun is the active mover of the physical processes. Its energy is in the
beginning of the formation of bursting with energy substances, which make
possible the life on our earth. This is the material, physical and chemical
aspect of life.
There is however an other side of life, which often is little considered: the
metaphysical aspect of life. Here too the sun plays an important role. It
invisibly mediates the solar fluid, which flows into the material world as
positive polarity of the "spiritus mundi". The moon in his invisible form
mediates the lunar fluid as negative polarity of the universal spirit. The
metaphysical aspect of life works in the concealed bodies of the creatures. The
conscious power of mind as well as the powers of the soul are supplied with the
spiritus mundi. As organizing principles they care for it, that the physical
manifestations of the individual creatures are viable.
Thus from the sphere of causality the intelligent energy comes, which
materializes itself in increasing material form. Originally all material
elements of our planet emerged from nuclear reactions in stars. The carbon of
our earth originally is thus of stellar origin. However this happened, still
long before physical life developed on our earth. Since beginning of time of
life on earth the elementary carbon has survived and is no more newly created
from the sun. As chemical element of the earth it is the earthly matrix, in
which the visible and invisible energies flow. The same is valid for all
remaining chemical elements. Because no direct changes happen more with the
chemical elements, the chemical processes can be very exactly described by
chemistry.
If it is successful however to impregnate matter with the fluids beyond it, so
materials are attained, which trigger effects going beyond chemistry. Alchemy
describes such effects and processes, which thus includes more than chemistry.
The latter only describes material processes.
Lapis
Sun Mar 10 19:35:25 1996
Subject: 0451 Advantages of the practical alchemy
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 10 Mar 96 11:28:08 EST
OISPEGGY asked:
> So, what is it alchemists ingest to supplement and fortify their bodies? It
can't be merely food (matter), or a good diet alone would do the trick. It must
be energy, captured somehow. What kind of energy and how to find it? How is it
captured? Captured in food and drink? Captured via breathing? <

The strengthening of the physical body can be reached on different kind. The
consumed cells and materials in the body must be replaced. The food, the
drinking and the gases of the air serve to it. Because the human body is not
able to synthesize all chemical compounds itself, nutrients are necessary like
amino acids, carbohydrates, mineral substances, fats etc. It does not suffice
therefore merely to take in the chemical elements. The man is dependent on
organisms, which deliver him prepared materials: Plants, animals among others.
This is the material basis of our life.
Each diet, which leaves unconsidered these legalities, is thus one-sided and
longer-term leads to disturbances in the metabolism, i.e. diseases.
The metabolic processes are predominantly redox processes. Chemical compounds
change their oxidation state, substances with high chemical energy density are
burnt in the body to gain the energy necessary for the right working of the life
processes.
Beside that other energies work in the body, which are marked as fluids,
elemental forces etc. (confer earlier messages). By the ordinary man the fluids
likewise are unseen gained in the right quantity from the food and air. The
human body knows in the hidden, how much and which quantities of supernatural
energies are necessary to the right working of his organization.
So far the processes are legal and run down agreing in all men. If disturbances
appear in the balance of the powers, so result different ailments, which can
solidify to diseases at continuances. The body tries then to bring itself again
in balance. This is the immaterial basis of our life.
A primeval energy underlies everything existing. This energy owns one
characteristic, which explains the entire magic: It is intelligent, it is
conscious! The man disposes of self-confidence. The man can direct his
consciousness directly at the primeval energy by means of concentration and
imagination. With it he causes the concealed energies (fluid etc.) to become
active according to his wishes and intents. This is the basis of magic.
Most people do not know the possibility to be able to do consciously affect on
the concealed powers. Who knows the laws owns the master key to work actively on
an improvement of his whole nature, i.e. his body, his soul and his spirit. He
can consciously put ideas in the powers and so impregnate that material
substances. He can imagine e.g., that a malfunction of his body is equalized,
whereupon soon the gotten lost health is restored on magic way. To the magic
methods and way I would not like to respond more exactly, because much was
written about it already. Who would like to argue with this aspect of the life
more exactly, should study above all Franz Bardon's writings.
The consciously controllable energies, loaded with ideas, wishes or mental
orders of the own consciousness are the deeper basis of all breathing exercises
of the yogis. Also the food can be impregnated to such an extent in a way, that
it is more than only substitute of chemically consumed materials. In this way
man can make himself powers available alone through his consciousness, which
will raise him soon over the ordinary man. The laws and methods to it are very
simple. We need only to grab, for we swim in a gigantic ocean of invisible
conscious and intelligent energy!
The alchemists always have known these processes in their concealed legality.
They directly work with the concealed energies (fluids, elemental forces,
planetary powers etc.). Since they have recognized, that also these energies
obey laws like the known natural forces, magic and alchemical processes can be
understood and scientifically described. The difference between the present

sciences and alchemy therefore is only gradual.

The alchemists had noticed already long ago, that diseases,
and many disharmonies are not divinely-ordained. They found
conditions of man are no necessity. If man learns to timely
necessary for his whole nature according to the laws and in
can live harmoniously in health and youthfulness as long as

the aging process

out, that such
take in the energies
right quantity, he
he wants.

If man utilizes only magic methods, so can he reach a condition of perfect

harmony under consideration of the physical, emotional and mental legalities. He
can become an adept alone in this way. The problem is only, that the learning of
all the methods lasts very long time and requires much discipline and patience.
Not each is successful in being effective on this way. Success can only have,
who learns to completely have his consciousness in the handle any time.
The basis of all undesirable conditions and/or all diseases is a defect of
energy or a disharmony of the powers working in man. A perfect magician can
equalize an imbalance in short time. A novice can not yet do this.
Thus the adepts of earlier time searched for further possibilities to get hold
of the invisible energies. Just as they felt the work of all the powers and
energies in their own nature, they felt the rampart of the energies in the whole
world and the cosmos. There should be however a way to make directly available
these powers of nature independently of man! Soon they found ways and means to
put into practice this hypothesis: the practical alchemy was born. Practical
alchemy is the applied knowledge, how the concealed energies can be gained alone
from matter and how they can be presented concentrated in matter. With it
immeasurable energies were available to the alchemist.
Chemistry is alchemy under this point of view. Work with the matter becomes for
chemical change of their materials to the purpose, to manufacture the material
basis of concealed energies. Practical outer alchemy is nothing but the
isolation and creation of a concrete material basis, which is able to
concentrate the concealed fluids in supreme concentration. An alchemical essence
is thus comparably to a condenser, only that its composition does not aim at
storing static electricity, but the primordial energies themselves.
The alchemists found always better ways to manufacture such substances. With
surprise they ascertained, that to it the consciousness of the alchemist is not
necessary! It suffices, if the alchemist brings together the right materials in
the right proportions under the right conditions. The matter itself begins to
store concealed energies, if it is properly prepared. The consciousness of the
alchemist only is in so far necessary, as he must understand, how matter is to
be handled.
In this sense alchemy does not differ from chemistry. But the synthesized
substances loaded with alchemical energies own much mightier characteristics
than usual chemical materials. Alchemical tinctures work magically! The taking
of an alchemical high-grade tincture is able to produce effects in the human
body, to which a magician only is capable under supreme concentration.
An alchemical adept is above the ordinary magician regarding development. Both
govern the matter. The magician can directly influence matter, to which he
always must apply his consciousness. An alchemist has the knowledge by contrast
to transform matter so, that it can work on other matter without conscious
concentration of the alchemist alone owing to their inside concentrated powers.
If an alchemist takes in his tinctures, so he is transformed to a magician in
much shorter time. There the same worlds present him, in which the magician
moves. Because alchemy goes beyond magic, it was called royal art.

Knowledge stands for power. Power always implies the possibility of the abuse of
power. A magician abusing his power will soon lose it. For his consciousness
will change in a way, that he is no more capable to apply the concealed energies
goal-oriented. An alchemist has a much higher power by contrast with it. For the
stone of the philosophers also keeps its powers independently of the alchemist.
The stone of the philosophers is to be compared in its interior energy to the
atomic bomb of the ordinary matter. It works also in the hands of the meddler,
and so the alchemists have always kept secret their most secret and best
processes since time immemorial.
It's up to divine providence, whom He wants to send this really divine
knowledge.
Lapis
Mon Mar 11 08:28:38 1996
Subject: 0453 Sources of practical alchemy
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 10 Mar 96 17:13:06 EST
ORCIS wrote:
>The Alchemists in turn are also trying to condense and potentialize this energy
through its laboratory processes, incorporating it to the other Materials...<
This is true.
>... while at the same time and most importantly adding its own internal divine
spark into the mixture.<
This ist possible, but NOT necessary!
>It is this internal energy of each Alchemist, that in my opinion, apports to
the Work the tuning fork after which his Stone in the process of creation will
resonate to. And that is why I feel that, as there are no two alchemist alike,
there are not two Philosopher's Stones alike.<
As I have written in an earlier message, the alchemist can influence the
progress of his work by means of magic methods. However he can also let work the
matter alone. In the rework the alchemists say again and again, that the
ingredients to the work are to be digested hermetically locked. In this stage
nothing more is added. Only time, presupposed the physical temperature is
correct, let ripen the work to the philosopher's stone.
The alchemists say: The king lies bare in his bath. He puts on invisible clothes
and emerges from the bath at end of the process wrapped in ruby-red clothes as
glorious sovereign of the world. The invisible clothes are the invisible fluids,
which the properly prepared matter attracts and is transformed by them. The
matter goes through different stages, visibly in different colors (peacock
tail). Ultimately the stone remains as ruby-red mass in the glass. The king has
newly fitted out himself with royal clothes.
>This is also why we must pray again and again, so that ourselves with the help
of God, and in a simbiotic process with our Lapis Philosophorum, continue to
evolve through the process that hopefully will carry us over to the successful
conclusion of our Opus Magnum.<
Without prayer and fear of God it does not actually function! However it is not

the prayer, which changes the matter, but it depends on the maturity and/or the
honest character of the alchemist, whether he can attain the knowledge, how he
must practically go ahead. Only if he is inwardly clear, he will be able to
understand the writings. Only then the words are meaningful, which he has read
perhaps dozens of times before without attaining clearness.
If the preparation of the philosopher's stone inalienably depend on the
assistance of the spirit and the powers of the alchemist, so all alchemical
processes would have been openly and clearly described. Why something keep
secret, if a meddler never could reach any result?
The matter contains the potential to the philosopher's stone independently of
man. The practical alchemist only helps nature to release the tremendous powers.
One can and may clearly separate between magic and practical alchemy.
Lapis
Mon Mar 11 08:31:38 1996
Subject: 0454 Buyout of Weidenfeld's book
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 10 Mar 96 17:13:13 EST
Dear Russ,
I would like to attach your message of 7th March the following: That the book of
Weidenfeld was bought up by the Rosicrucians did not first appear in lesson 36
of the Mineral Alchemy. Subsequently I would like to try to demonstrate the
origin of this assertion of Jean Dubuis:
As Frater Albertus had still hardly an expectation of alchemy and practically
worked first since short time, he travelled through whole Europe in search of
alchemists. About 1960 he met Alexander von Bernus. This man advised Frater
Albertus to the books of Becker and Weidenfeld.
Frater Albertus of course maintains in his book "Practical Alchemy in the
Twentieth Century" that Alexander von Bernus have learned much from him. In fact
it was reverse. This I have heard from one of the closest friends of Alexander
von Bernus, who told me once of the encounter between this both great alchemists
of the 20th century.
At any rate after that Frater Albertus began to work especially according to the
book of August Becker. These works led to the distillation of the philosophical
mercury. Frater Albertus emphasizes, that this process was for the first time
successful under presence of seven persons 1963. Three of the persons involved
in this distillation have told me independently of each other about it, why this
description is not to be doubted.
Jean Dubuis had worked together with Frater Albertus for years, before he went
his own way. Both ultimately have failed, because the view is wrong thinking the
distillate be the philosophical mercury.
Alexander von Bernus therefore is the source of the knowledge of the writings of
Becker and Weidenfeld for Dubuis as well as Albertus. Bernus had put both on
this track. Whether both already formerly had gained fundamental knowledge about
this way through the study of other writings, I don't know.
Alexander von Bernus published a book 1956, which was later reprinted under the

title "Alchemy and medical Art" (Alchymie und Heilkunst). Alexander von Bernus
writes therein (translated from the German edition):
>Strangely, this work about the secret spirit of wine of the adepts by Johann
Segerus Weidenfeld, one of the most informative books of the entire alchemical
literature, which newly was printed already a year after his first appearance in
London 1684 in Hamburg, a sign, that it found large interest, has never again
been reprinted since then. By no alchemical author neither of the 17th nor of
the 18th century it is mentioned also only in one word, and I know no state
library, where it would be to be found. It belongs to the rarest and most
difficult findable books of alchemy. This circumstance let suppose, the both
editions have been bought up immediately after the appearance by the Rosicrucian
lodge and the Illuminates, and a further dissemination of the book has been
suppressed by this side. The mysterious fact of the almost entire disappearance
of this book unique in the alchemical literature can not be explained
differently.<
Bernus owned both editions of the book already during the second World War. Most
of his practical works rest on it.
Bernus as first has expressed the conjecture the book of Weidenfeld being bought
up by the Rosicrucians. Dubuis made an assurance from it, which he derived from
the conjecture of Alexander von Bernus. With it it remains unanswered as always,
whether the book has been actually bought up shortly after the appearance by
these secret societies or not.
Lapis
PS: The whole really is not at all so important. It only shows, that often
original remarks or sights change their content, if they are handed down by
others. Thus one must study the original works of the alchemists. One must
descend to the source of the fountain to get hold of the hermetical birdie.
Tue Mar 12 09:46:45 1996
Subject: 0462 Dry-way/Wet-way
From: RawnClark
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:09:27 -0500
Dear Lapis,
WOW! WOW! and WOW again!!!
I feel VERY fortunate to have the benefit of the words
of such a fine Alchemist as yourself!!!
Your latest posts have helped immensely. They have
seeded many thoughts and questions, one of which I will
ask here: Would you please define "Wet-way" and
"Dry-way"?
Again, I humbly thank you for this fine Gift of Wisdom
you so freely and kindly offer to the Forum.
Best to you!
:) Rawn Clark
11 Mar 96
Wed Mar 13 19:06:21 1996

Subject: 0465 Plant mercury

From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 12 Mar 96 20:11:02 EST
Andrew Minkin wrote:
> I have a general question about plant mercury, what I understand to be ethanol
(or carried by the ethanol). I know that it is easy to come by if you ferment
herbs, but what about using a jar maceration or Soxhlet extraction? Does plant
mercury exist comingling with the alchohol menstruum or is it not released
without more of a "natural" alchemical process? I welcome any opinions and
personal experience on this matter.<
Ethyl alcohol is the material basis of the plant mercury. Alcohol owns the
characteristic to attract vegetable spiritual powers. If one uses alcohol for
the extraction of a plant by means of maceration or Soxhlet extraction, so a
certain part of the mental powers of the plant can be isolated with it.
Such a method nevertheless is not spagyric. The reason is easy to understand.
The alchemists have emphasized again and again, that a new birth only can happen
after the death of a being. In reference to plants this means, that only then a
plant can appear in a new figure, if it previously dies. From spagyric view the
death means disintegration of the inner structure of the plant in reference to
the three alchemical principles Sal, Sulfur and Mercurius.
Concerning plants this disintegration - the death - is only attainable through
fermentation. Extraction processes isolate only soluble extractive substances, a
spagyric disintegration does not occur. The fermentation of a plant can not be
replaced thus by an extraction or maceration with alcohol. Extraction or
maceration lead to ordinary plant tinctures, them spagyric characteristics
almost fully are missing. Even if one gives the ash or the water-soluble salts
of the plant to the alcoholic extract, one receives no spagyric essence. The
plant must be fermented!
One may not forget: The putrefaction or fermentation dissolves the inner
structure of the healing powers of a plant with regard to all three alchemical
principles. First after resulted fermentation the three alchemical principles
are found in the fermentation mass in a form, which makes possible the
separation of the pure healing powers of the curative effect hindering dissonant
components.
The effect of the putrefaction is materially especially obviously illustrated:
The plant loses its form through the fermentation. Its spirit is released in a
perceptible form. The alcohol emerges through the fermentation process. If one
distills the mixture, so one receives the alcohol specific for plants loaded
with the medical mercurial powers of the processed plant.
The same is valid for the Sulfur and the Sal. Each who once has fermented a
plant, can directly attest this through his own perception. The most plants
first develop an aroma typical for them through the fermentation process, which
is to be led back first of all to been released sulphuric components. The
physical basis is found in the salts, which likewise endure certain changes.
Summed up: The fermentation is in the beginning of each correct spagyric
processing of plants. Extraction or maceration with alcohol are no spagyric
processes.
Who wants to read more about practice and theory of these processes is referred
to my little booklet "Spagyric Tinctures - Tradition, Preparation and Usage" .

Lapis
100667.1267@compuserve.com
Fri Mar 15 09:39:32 1996
Subject: 0481 Dry-way/ Wet-way
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 14 Mar 96 19:30:15 EST
Rawn asked me:
>Your latest posts have helped immensely. They have seeded many thoughts and
questions, one of which I will ask here: Would you please define "Wet-way" and
"Dry-way"?<
Dear Rawn,
The alchemists describe different ways to arrive at the philosopher's stone. At
this point I would not like to come to speak on different remote matters,
likewise not on different variants within single processes. For according to the
chosen original substance the way to the stone differently proceeds.
Nevertheless mutualities of all processes can be crystalized. If one knows these
mutualities, so the differences can be better understood. All processes can be
divided in two successive sections: the preparatory work and the rework.
In the preparatory work the ingredients of the rework are prepared from the
different source materials. In the preparatory work reaction steps appear, in
them is worked with solid as well as liquid substances. Dry as well as wet steps
are characteristical for almost all these processes. As main product the
philosophical mercury will be received. This appears in two different forms:
1. It can be received in the form of a liquid after acuation of the spirit of
philosophical wine.
With the liquid philosopher's mercury, accordingly prepared metals now are led
back to their first matter. Gold as the noblest of all metals was often used to
it. One took off the tincture of the gold and received the gold sulfur in alive
form. This sulfur along with the mercury are cooked to the philosopher's stone
in the rework. Because in this way predominantly is distilled regarding
processes, one speaks of the wet way.
There is a method in this way, which gets along completely without gold. The
philosophical sulphur is isolated from another matter and is processed so, that
it can replace the sulphur of gold. Some alchemists even maintain, that this
philosophical gold in its tincture i.e. power exceeds the ordinary gold by far.
The philosopher's stone prepared from it should accordingly unfold special
strong effects.
2. The philosophical mercury can be received as a sublimate. This sublimate often also named fire salt - is solid. While the wet way always includes the
preparation of the spirit of philosophical wine, this does not have to be the
case in the dry way. There are methods, which result in the fire salt without
preparation of the philosophical wine. A fire salt can also be gained however
from the philosophical wine. Thus both ways intersect.
Because in the dry way the minerals and metals are directly treated with the
fire salt in the crucible and are predominantly sublimated regarding processes,
one speaks of the dry way.
Just as in the dry way also in the wet way it can be worked with or without

ordinary gold.
The both ways differ in many points, though they also show important
mutualities. The dry way is also called the short way, since one receives the
philosopher's stone after shorter time. In contrast the wet way is also called
the long way. The wet way counts as the much more distinguished, but also
unequally more difficult and more lengthy way. The stone produced according to
the wet way however should considerably be more effective than the other.
An author of the 18th century has very fittingly described the differences
between both ways, and so I would like to cite him. The passage is taken out of
the book "The true old natural way of Hermes Trismegistus, or: Mystery how to
prepare the great universal tincture on men and metals without glasses.
Published from a genuine Freemason I. C. H., Leipzig 1782". As far as I know
this text has been passed on only as German handwriting, to which no foreign
translation exists:
>The philosophers remember two ways in their writings, through which one can get
to the tincture. They name the one way the dry one and the other one the wet
way. One may however work for the tincture in a way, in which one wants, so
initially no difference is in the same, in that one must operate in both through
the damp and dry. They however differ or have their various designation thus,
that by the tincture prepared following the dry way the gold is opened as by a
dry powder in the crucible and is brought in a plusquamperfect or tinctural
status. On the contrary in the wet way the gold must be opened by our resolved
philosophical mercury, and must arrive to the tinctural status by reversal of
the elements.<
Since there are many variants within both ways, more detailed statements can be
hardly made. For which may be right as statement in one process, would fully
lead astray in an other process. The quotation originates from an author, who
has evidently processed ordinary gold. Other authors emphasize, that the one
fails, who thinks the philosopher's stone would be prepared from gold.
If one knows, that there are different ways, so one must not let confuse himself
through such contradictory remarks. One should try to find out, why an author
has pursued a specific way. If one consults the literature of other authors, so
one must very exactly explore, whether they have followed the same way or have
worked with completely other substances.
Lapis
Sat Mar 16 10:37:59 1996
Subject: 0487 The hand of the philosophers
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 15 Mar 96 19:56:20 EST
Claire Sherman asked:
>Can anyone tell me about alchemical texts with illustrations of hands with
alchemical symbols?<
Up to now an important alchemical text was not yet called to this theme: "The
hand of the philosophers" by Johann Isaacus Hollandus. Some copper engraves are
appended to the text, of which the first is an upright right hand. This shows to
the viewer with the palm. On each fingertip as well as on the palm following
symbols are found:
Thumb: Crown and increasing moon in the first quarter

Index finger: hexagonal star

Middle finger: Sun
Ring finger: Lantern
Little finger: Key
Palm: A fish standing on four diagonally put crosses within a sea of flames
The copper engraving is found in (German edition): "Collection of different
proven chemical writings of Johann Isaac Hollandus, Vienna, 1773. The hand of
the philosophers is in the beginning of the extensive collection.
The text begins with the following sentences:
"This is the hand of the philosophers with their dear secret signs, with which
hand the old sages have joined and sworn each other. Nobody can understand this
hand with their secret signs, unless he becomes before a juror of the
philosophers, and has loyally served them in the art alchemy. Therefore then,
who has not this hand and does not understood their secret signs, nor is loyally
sworn with it, such are bastards in this art. They will not own the treasure of
the philosophers..."
Lapis
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 17 Mar 96 19:08:26 EST
Dear Jose,
you asked:
>Does the dry way, which makes use of the crucible and solid substances, also
requires the use of high temperatures? Fulcanelli suggests that the short way
needs temperatures near the metal fusion point and the progress can not be
observed by the alchemist as the wet way permits.<
The first part of your question is to be answered with yes. The dry way requires
high temperatures. The basis of this way is the preparation of a sublimate with
the characteristics of an universal solvent. This sublimate is often called
Columba Dianae (The pigeon of the Diana). The first steps of this process
require a red-hot fire. The temperature reaches about 1000 degrees Celsius.
According to the process still higher temperatures can be necessary.
The remark of Fulcanelli only is correct in a limited way. I do not know
exactly, which process Fulcanelli had in mind writing this sentence. According
to Philaletha there processes should be in the dry way, which very soon directly
lead to a transmuting powder. In this sense the statement of Fulcanelli is
correct.
If one starts from the mentioned sublimate as solvent, so a further way is open.
The sublimate can be transformed in a liquid. This liquid along with gold lime
is brought through the colors. In other words: The rework corresponds to the
rework in the wet way, and so the progress of the work can be just as observed
by the alchemist. Then the difference between the wet and dry way exists only in
the preparatory work. The way to the real philosophical mercury is different,
the further agrees.
Lapis
Tue Apr 02 23:02:05 1996
Subject: 0578 Law of Causality
From: Rawn Clark

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:21:04 -0500

One aspect of the Law of Causality, is that our personal philosophies, pretty
much shape our experience of the Universe. What we sow in the way of
attitudes, preconceptions, biases, all determine our interactions with our
physical surroundings. What we expect, or are only capable of seeing due
to the rigidity (and often fragility) of our philosophy, effectively filters
the infinite Universe, leaving us with but a small portion of it as our arena of
conscious experience.
When we expect to everywhere find evidence of a Severe Divine
Reciprocation, we will find it. Similarly, if we are certain that there are
Benign Laws, we will find them too. The filter of our limited
understandings, serves as the cause for our resultant personal experience of the
universe.
Nowhere, can one Law be separated from another. To over-simplify about
one Law while ignoring the simultaneous reality of the other Laws, is a
common error of rationalization and strict intellectualization. This is the
main reason why non-rational techniques like meditation are the basis of
Hermetics...they open the awareness to more inclusive levels of mind.
When placed in context with each other, these several Laws match pace
with the finest Zen aphorisms!
No matter how one experiences the Universe, neither endlessly long quoting
of other's words nor pages of capitalized letters, will ever erase the fact
that every other conceivable experience of the very same Universe is happening n
ow, somewhere. The Hermetic Laws can be used to unlock the
commonality within this seeming chaos; or they can be used to further limit
our perceptions, effectively defining ourselves out of large chunks of the
Infinite.
Though the Kybalion presents them in a very intellectualized context, these
Laws are not graspable in their entirety by so limited an aspect of the human
mind as the rational. They require the solving and integrating power of
meditation for their embrace, and subsequent experiment for their proof-inthe-fire. As the astral and mental senses are refined, the Universe reveals
a much different face than is commonly seen, and it was from this perspective
that the Kybalion was written (though through the filter of a Victorian
bias!).
:) Rawn Clark
2 Apr 96
Mon Apr 01 09:47:14 1996
Subject: 0559 Violence for violence, murder...
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 31 Mar 96 18:59:09 EST
Petra wrote:
>Violence for violence, murder for murder, but thank heavens also, kindness for
kindness, and love for love.<
This statement is based on the law of causality. This law is an important axiom
of hermetics. The Kybalion says:
>Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its cause; everything happens
according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many
planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.<

The natural laws have their basis in this principle. If this principle did not
count, so it would give no legal courses of events in nature. If we utilize the
law of causality, so we must consider two aspects. All events in nature obey
different laws. Any condition leads to an other as consequence of the causality.
According to events different laws can be valid. The way on which a condition is
transported into the next can exactly be either only one certain, or there also
many ways can exist to arrive from one condition at an other. Therefore we have
conditions and ways as the two essential aspects of causality. An example: The
earth circulates the sun on one exactly defined path through the law of gravity.
The law determines, when the earth will take up a certain position to the sun.
The place at the moment of the spring as a certain spatial condition of the
earth goes over in the condition, i.e. place at the moment of the fall after a
certain time. As long as the solar system owns the present order, the earth will
exactly take up a place relatively to the sun after a certain time. There is
only one way.
Also the karma is based on the law of causality. In contrast to the gravitation
however the karma is subject to more complicated laws. There is more than one
way, how a condition can lead to a next. This fact is of extraordinary
significance.
Let us take the quotation mentioned at the outset. Murder corresponds to a
condition, murder also is the next condition imperatively following from it. The
statement maintains that a man who murders will personally be murdered.
According to the quotation there is only one way, which imperatively leads to
the same following condition. The erroneous acceptance this being right has
seduced many men in the past. If this linearity would be right, so our life
would be pure fatalism. A certain act of man would necessitate the same act as
answer. It give no escaping from the wheel of rebirth. The evolution of
humankind would be impossible.
If one considers the principle of causality, so one would have to say more
correctly:
Violence can call forth violence, murder can call forth murder etc.
Murder does not imperatively have murder for consequence. If a man murders, so
he heaps on himself heavy karma. But in the same or in a following life this man
does not absolutely force himself to be personally murdered. This case can
enter. However it also can happen, that for instance the man loses a very
cherished man through disease. The pain triggered through the loss can rouse in
him the feeling, that each man is irreplaceable. Perhaps he subsequently
recognizes, that the murder of a man will rouse the same feeling in men, which
have been close to the victim. This sympathy will produce in him the certainty,
that murder can solve no problems. In other words: The earlier murderer
recognizes the badness of his act at that time in a quite other way. He does not
have to personally be murdered to come to realize this.
The definition of the principle of causality in the Kybalion especially exactly
describes this: There are several levels of causality, to say ways. Of course
each cause has its effect. The variety of the laws and ways does not lead
however to fixed orders of events, but to abundant possibilities. A certain
condition does not bear therefore exactly a certain following condition, but
opens the entrance to a whole palette of possibilities. A cause always will have
a certain effect. However the effect can not exactly be forecast. Modern physics
has recorded this fact a long time ago. The quantum physics has replaced the
simple causality of the classic physics.
The conclusion: One should be very attentive in the choice of words. Quotations

like that from Petra are dangerous simplifications. They are formulations, which
correspond to the classic physics. The reality disobeys however classic laws. If
we would like to copy the reality in words, we must accordingly choose words,
which meet the complexity of the actual events.
Lapis
Fri Apr 05 11:30:41 1996
Subject: 0606 Causality, karma and gender
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 04 Apr 96 17:46:02 EST
Petra wrote:
>The only "danger" lies in the RECIPROCAL ACTION of what oneself has put into
the world!!! No one can escape this action! Not Beat Krummenacher's INTELLECTUAL
ACROBATICS can change the Cosmic Law of Reciprocal Action which carry DIVINE
JUSTICE from the beginning of time, --- but by degree, the effects may be
weakened, if a violent man in his heart has, in the meantime, become a
SAMARITER, and the murderer a SAINT.<
All that is correct and a more religiously or philosophically oriented
description of two of the hermetical axioms:
Naturally a relationship exists between world and men. The law of karma
emphasizes, that each action will have reactions as a consequence. While I spoke
in my message about cause and effect, Petra spoke in her remark - from
hermetical view - more about a process, which is to be associated with the
principle of gender. The law of causality results in the effect, that everything
what exists is assumed to laws. That is to say utilized on karma: There are
laws, which give a structure to karmic events in the hidden. Karma will manifest
on the most different levels according to certain patterns.
Against it the principle of gender says (Kybalion): "Gender is in everything;
everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles; Gender manifests on all
planes."
The principle of causality and the principle of gender are two different laws.
One may not mix or confuse the one with the other. Let us take again the
formulation >violence for violence, murder for murder...<, so the difference can
be made plain:
Principle of causality: It describes - in the physical world - a sequence of all
events. The sequence physically manifests as time or thermodynamically as
entropy. To this principle also the different legalities of all passages between
different states of existence are to be calculated: It describes the ways, on
which a murder CAN lead to a murder.
Principle of gender: This principle is easiest to understand remembering the
physical 'actio = reactio'. It is the inherent attractive and dissipative power
of space and time between separate bodies etc... Example: If the sun attracts
the earth, so also the earth simultaneously attracts the sun. The deeper cause
of the law of gravity lies in this interaction, which the hermetics generally
called gender. The concealed working principle of gender is therefore the basis
of laws, which regulate the future (time) or informative and/or proper (entropy)
events, described by the law of causality. The principle of gender itself is the
cause of an effect, which is the principle of causality. Murder and murder causal joined with the former - are reciprocally tied up.

With my critical remark on the use of turns like >violence for violence, murder
for murder...< I only wanted to emphasize, that the semantic meaning must be
exactly considered and understood. While the statement suggests to assume a
murder imperatively necessitate a second, in fact this is not the case. For not
only one of both mentioned hermetical axiom works in this statement, but both.
A murder and a murder causally connected with the former stand to each other in
a comparable proportion like earth and moon from gravitational view. An
invisible band of the gender karmically joins murderers and victims. This is the
deeper energetic reason, why karmic connections exist. How will run down events
in reference to the variable time and entropy, however is subject to the
principle of causality, which describes the complex laws of the interaction.
Murder thus CAN generate murder, murder is however NO imperative consequence of
murder.
I hope having more clearly expressed with it what I wanted to mediate. I wanted
warn against ethical demands of such a formulation. I wanted warn against an
appraisal, which then enters, if one means murder must generate murder. With
this opinion we are again in the class of good and evil and classify conditions.
It is better to recognize, that murder must not imperatively generate murder. It
is open the door for a change, which frees from the imperative bands of (more
karmic) connections.
And another thing: Always if I put in question or critically illuminate
something - from my view! -, so it is never personally meant. I would like to
speak about a matter. For if we accustom ourselves self-critically and
critically to reflect events, we can advance on the way for mental rebirth, the
'unio mystica' of the alchemists.
The law of causality says, that this way is subject to just as laws, as we know
them from physics. Magic, inner and outer alchemy can actually scientifically be
explored. If we know the laws, we learn to utilize them. And earlier miracles
become to nothing but events of up to now unrecognized or misunderstood laws.
Magic becomes science! An alchemist is no dreamer or magician. An alchemist is a
critically thinking man, whose field of research searches to include everything
existing.
Lapis
PS: Petra's citation of 'THE GRAIL MESSAGE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH' by Abd-ru-shin
(2. April) is a very good example how somebody can confuse and mix the law of
causality with the principle of gender.
Fri Apr 05 22:10:26 1996
Subject: 0610 Cosmic laws, mind and intuition
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 05 Apr 96 11:20:51 EST

Petra wrote:
>THE COSMIC LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION = CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE LAW OF
REPERCUSSION<.
I would like to emphasize only, that the equals sign does not be correct in this
assertion. The law of interaction is NOT identical with the law of causality!
Why no equality exists between both laws, I have described in my last message
(606).

Rawn wonderfully described the obtuseness of the rational formulations of cosmic

laws by the 'Kybalion'. It is right, that the human mind only can record
connections, in that it picks individual things out of the endless plenty of the
being and it logically ties them with each other. The whole can never be
comprehensively described with it. Nevertheless the human mind is of eminent
importance: It altogether helps us to recognize connections.
Dear Rawn, how would it be now, if it be successful to expand the abilities of
the human mind in a way, that it understandingly includes always larger spheres
of the being? Then one could arrive at a penetrating understanding of the
connection of complex things, which formerly incoherently laid before one.
Intuitive recording of complex connections can be regarded than as a higher form
of the mind. We spontaneously know that something is. And because the analysis
of the mind lies concealed in the intuitive knowledge, we can subsequently
logically explain, why an intuitive knowledge is right (for us). That the
attempt to logically and rationally explain the complexly recognized only is a
reflection of the real experience naturally is clear. But only a such reduction
on essential aspects allows us to wake in other people interest and
understanding to perhaps once differently consider certain things. For instance
to personally begin with alchemical practice.
This is only a stimulation to consider an unaccustomed possibility for
development of the mind.
Lapis
Wed Apr 10 10:50:40 1996
Subject: 0635 Cinnabar, Caro's way
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 09 Apr 96 18:29:41 EDT
Dear Manfred,
you wrote: >The so-called Way of Cinnabar has been thaugt by the French
alchemist Roger Caro who lived in South France and died few years ago.<
Have you practically examined the way? As far as I am informed, the process
actually is very simple. Only the preparation of the necessary raw materials for
the work is costly. Thereby the production of the salt fire presents the most
time-consuming work. But also this is to be made...
The problem: Good friends of mine have re-enacted dozens of times the union of
the three essential alchemical principles of this work. Thereby they exactly
followed the statements of Caro. The described and also in photos captured color
changes which Caro observed really are reproducible. Only: The product was not
the philosopher's stone! One received a red powder, which however did not own
the characteristics being attributed to it.
Do you know more about it?
Best regards
Lapis
E-Mail 100667.1267@compuserve.com
Alchemy Forum 0601-0650

From January 25th 1996, the Alchemy forum was restructured and the messages were
sequentially numbered. This is an unedited extract of messages 601-650.
Go to next 50 messages . Back to forum archive.
Fri Apr 05 11:29:54 1996
Subject: 0601 Weiser Books
From: Certum
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:14:25 -0500
To Jack Handler, et al., and other fellow bibliophiles:
Greetings from Laura in North Carolina (Certum@aol.com) If the S. Weiser that you're talking about is the same publisher
that I think it is, then yes, they operate out of "some northern state"
(Maine) and mail-order is not a problem....and I agree that they publish
an excellent selection of books.
I've never been to an actual Samuel Weiser bookstore, and didn't
know that they had a retail location(s?); I've seen some of their books
for sale at other bookstores, here & there. They've been sending me
their catalogs regularly for several years now, and I've mail-ordered
from them several times. I think I originally got their address etc.
from one of their books, and have been dealing with them directly
ever since, whenever I wanted a particular title that I couldn't find
locally.
So without further ado, here are the coordinates:
Samuel Weiser, Inc.
Box 612
York Beach, ME 03910-0612
Phone: 207-363-4393
Order phone: 800-423-7087
Fax: 207-363-5799
They accept Visa/Mastercard/AmEx for orders over $15.
Happy reading!
In L.V.X., Laura
Fri Apr 05 11:30:03 1996
Subject: 0602 Weiser Books
From: FModica
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:36:58 -0500
I too miss Weiser's Bookshop. There is none other like it here in NY.
You can write: Samuel Weiser
P.O. Box 612
York Beach, ME 03910
They have an extensive catalogue and take mail orders.
I'll dig up the phone number and post it within a day or so.

Fri Apr 05 11:30:12 1996

Subject: 0603 Tangents in by Josh
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:49:02 -0500
From: photopro
Josh writes:From: joshua geller
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:15:57 -0800
wisa writes:
> All the Mystical sciences are also and primarily - "tangents in" toward
> understanding who you are and becoming that.
that is certainly one, but hardly the only way to look at it.
>The Secret of the
> Universe, of all the ages, is that everything, being and symbol is
> literally You.
and it is equally not-you.
josh
Wisa asks: When all is One, out of the One, lives in the Mind of One as
the One lives in you...When all illusion is there for you to learn your
true Identity through experiences. as
lessons... when there is no "other" and that is why you do unto others
as you would unto yourself...How can anything, person, being, symbol of
anything in this world not be you? That is the lesson. The ladder of
metals is you on you way up. You are a process. Alchemical processes
are you as you transcend yourself...and move along on the wheel. Name
it. It's you or some aspect of yourself whether it is a dominant or not
seen aspect of you that you can or can't recognize. Can you recognize
that?.
Fri Apr 05 11:30:25 1996
Subject: 0604 Gold again
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:02:25 -0500
From: photopro

Alchemy forum writes:

> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:38:10 -0500
> Subject: Gold
> You know: You can make physical gold but it won't stay in that
> form,
could you clarify this statement please?
if it was gold once and became something else, spontaneously as it
were, it doesn't really meet the definition of 'gold', or at least so

it seems to me.
> while you can become gold and that is eternal. Wisa
yes, outward direction and inward direction. but is there a real
difference, ultimately?
some work upon themselves, some work upon the world, some work upon
both.
Joshua - MY statement was made upon a statement that was made to me by
a master teacher who was aware that alchemists had actually been
successful, at some historical points in so-called time, in turning
lead to gold. Physically successful! But he also stated that the
physical form did not stay gold (hold) and therefore was not materially
valuable for one who was searching for material success. Whereas if a
person transforms into a Being of Gold. A touchstone so-called, that is
eternal! That Being has/is the Elixar of LIfe. I do agree with all
your wise comments. Wisa
Fri Apr 05 11:30:33 1996
Subject: 0605 Question - law of reciprocal action
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:06:56 -0500
From: photopro
Is the law of reciprocal action, that many in this forum are referring
to, what I call the law of compensation? That is balance restored in
the universe.
Fri Apr 05 11:30:41 1996
Subject: 0606 Causality, karma and gender
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 04 Apr 96 17:46:02 EST
Petra wrote:
>The only "danger" lies in the RECIPROCAL ACTION of what oneself has put into
the world!!! No one can escape this action! Not Beat Krummenacher's INTELLECTUAL
ACROBATICS can change the Cosmic Law of Reciprocal Action which carry DIVINE
JUSTICE from the beginning of time, --- but by degree, the effects may be
weakened, if a violent man in his heart has, in the meantime, become a
SAMARITER, and the murderer a SAINT.<
All that is correct and a more religiously or philosophically oriented
description of two of the hermetical axioms:
Naturally a relationship exists between world and men. The law of karma
emphasizes, that each action will have reactions as a consequence. While I spoke
in my message about cause and effect, Petra spoke in her remark - from
hermetical view - more about a process, which is to be associated with the
principle of gender. The law of causality results in the effect, that everything
what exists is assumed to laws. That is to say utilized on karma: There are
laws, which give a structure to karmic events in the hidden. Karma will manifest
on the most different levels according to certain patterns.
Against it the principle of gender says (Kybalion): "Gender is in everything;
everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles; Gender manifests on all
planes."

The principle of causality and the principle of gender are two different laws.
One may not mix or confuse the one with the other. Let us take again the
formulation >violence for violence, murder for murder...<, so the difference can
be made plain:
Principle of causality: It describes - in the physical world - a sequence of all
events. The sequence physically manifests as time or thermodynamically as
entropy. To this principle also the different legalities of all passages between
different states of existence are to be calculated: It describes the ways, on
which a murder CAN lead to a murder.
Principle of gender: This principle is easiest to understand remembering the
physical 'actio = reactio'. It is the inherent attractive and dissipative power
of space and time between separate bodies etc... Example: If the sun attracts
the earth, so also the earth simultaneously attracts the sun. The deeper cause
of the law of gravity lies in this interaction, which the hermetics generally
called gender. The concealed working principle of gender is therefore the basis
of laws, which regulate the future (time) or informative and/or proper (entropy)
events, described by the law of causality. The principle of gender itself is the
cause of an effect, which is the principle of causality. Murder and murder causal joined with the former - are reciprocally tied up.
With my critical remark on the use of turns like >violence for violence, murder
for murder...< I only wanted to emphasize, that the semantic meaning must be
exactly considered and understood. While the statement suggests to assume a
murder imperatively necessitate a second, in fact this is not the case. For not
only one of both mentioned hermetical axiom works in this statement, but both.
A murder and a murder causally connected with the former stand to each other in
a comparable proportion like earth and moon from gravitational view. An
invisible band of the gender karmically joins murderers and victims. This is the
deeper energetic reason, why karmic connections exist. How will run down events
in reference to the variable time and entropy, however is subject to the
principle of causality, which describes the complex laws of the interaction.
Murder thus CAN generate murder, murder is however NO imperative consequence of
murder.
I hope having more clearly expressed with it what I wanted to mediate. I wanted
warn against ethical demands of such a formulation. I wanted warn against an
appraisal, which then enters, if one means murder must generate murder. With
this opinion we are again in the class of good and evil and classify conditions.
It is better to recognize, that murder must not imperatively generate murder. It
is open the door for a change, which frees from the imperative bands of (more
karmic) connections.
And another thing: Always if I put in question or critically illuminate
something - from my view! -, so it is never personally meant. I would like to
speak about a matter. For if we accustom ourselves self-critically and
critically to reflect events, we can advance on the way for mental rebirth, the
'unio mystica' of the alchemists.
The law of causality says, that this way is subject to just as laws, as we know
them from physics. Magic, inner and outer alchemy can actually scientifically be
explored. If we know the laws, we learn to utilize them. And earlier miracles
become to nothing but events of up to now unrecognized or misunderstood laws.
Magic becomes science! An alchemist is no dreamer or magician. An alchemist is a
critically thinking man, whose field of research searches to include everything
existing.
Lapis

PS: Petra's citation of 'THE GRAIL MESSAGE IN THE LIGHT OF TRUTH' by Abd-ru-shin
(2. April) is a very good example how somebody can confuse and mix the law of
causality with the principle of gender.
Fri Apr 05 11:30:50 1996
Subject: 0607 Weiser Books
From: Clark Stillman
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:07:39 -0800
Charla,
I used to work in Weiser's in the 70's [shudder, how long ago]. Now
they are my distributor for an internet occult and metaphysical store.
Please visit us at http://www.AccessNewAge,com. We have over 2000
titles in all subjects, including alchemy, kabbalah, magic(k), etc.
Regards,
Clark Stillman
***********************************************************************
Access:New Age
All Things--Esoteric and Spiritual, Occult and Metaphysical--All Things
http://www.AccessNewAge.com
***********************************************************************
Fri Apr 05 12:12:35 1996
Subject: Help !! Need new Web site!!!
My Internet provider Colloquium have now increased their pricing for Web space,
and I doubt if I can afford the new charges.
Originally they set up my site at a rental cost of 50 UK pounds (about $80) PER
YEAR for each 5 megabytes of space. At the moment I have 15 megabtyes allocated
to me. I can of course quite easily cover these costs out of my own pocket.
In the last few weeks, however, they have reassessed their pricing structure and
have set a new price of 35 UK pounds (about $60) PER MONTH !!! for 5 megabytes.
This is 400 UK pounds (about $600) per year for each 5 megabytes.
I find I cannot cover the new costs as the present 15 megabytes will cost me 120
0 UK pounds (about $1800) per year and I will need much more space than this in
the longer term as the site develops.
Can any one help find me cheap or possibly free space on a server? There must be
an academic site which would be able to host the alchemy virtual library. I wou
ld expect the Alchemy web site would grow to 30 megabytes by the end of this yea
r and add 15-20 megabytes each subsequent year.
With my best wishes,
Adam McLean
Fri Apr 05 22:10:07 1996
Subject: 0608 Gold

From: joshua geller

Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:09:49 -0800
On Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:09:45 -0600 George Randall Leake III writes:
> >From: joshua geller
> >some work upon themselves, some work upon the world, some work upon
> >both.
> *or to put another way "some are born great, some achieve greatness, and
> some have greatness thrust upon em!"
of course the vast majority of people work neither upon the world nor
upon themselves, but sort of stumble from birth to death and pass as
if they had never been.
josh
Fri Apr 05 22:10:17 1996
Subject: 0609 Tangents in
From: joshua geller
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:14:26 -0800
On Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:49:02 -0500 photopro writes:
> Wisa asks: When all is One, out of the One, lives in the Mind of One as
> the One lives in you...When all illusion is there for you to learn your
> true Identity through experiences.
this is only one way of looking at it.
josh
Fri Apr 05 22:10:26 1996
Subject: 0610 Cosmic laws, mind and intuition
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 05 Apr 96 11:20:51 EST

Petra wrote:
>THE COSMIC LAW OF RECIPROCAL ACTION = CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE LAW OF
REPERCUSSION<.
I would like to emphasize only, that the equals sign does not be correct in this
assertion. The law of interaction is NOT identical with the law of causality!
Why no equality exists between both laws, I have described in my last message
(606).
Rawn wonderfully described the obtuseness of the rational formulations of cosmic
laws by the 'Kybalion'. It is right, that the human mind only can record
connections, in that it picks individual things out of the endless plenty of the
being and it logically ties them with each other. The whole can never be
comprehensively described with it. Nevertheless the human mind is of eminent
importance: It altogether helps us to recognize connections.

Dear Rawn, how would it be now, if it be successful to expand the abilities of

the human mind in a way, that it understandingly includes always larger spheres
of the being? Then one could arrive at a penetrating understanding of the
connection of complex things, which formerly incoherently laid before one.
Intuitive recording of complex connections can be regarded than as a higher form
of the mind. We spontaneously know that something is. And because the analysis
of the mind lies concealed in the intuitive knowledge, we can subsequently
logically explain, why an intuitive knowledge is right (for us). That the
attempt to logically and rationally explain the complexly recognized only is a
reflection of the real experience naturally is clear. But only a such reduction
on essential aspects allows us to wake in other people interest and
understanding to perhaps once differently consider certain things. For instance
to personally begin with alchemical practice.
This is only a stimulation to consider an unaccustomed possibility for
development of the mind.
Lapis
Fri Apr 05 22:10:37 1996
Subject: 0611 Law of Compensation?Reciprocal Action
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:16 -0500
From: photopro
> THE COSMIC LAW OF
>RECIPROCAL ACTION = CAUSE AND EFFECT, THE LAW OF REPERCUSSION.
Below is a meditative essay I wrote that quotes a shortened version of Vero> out
lining of The Law of Compenstaion. This seems to be what members of the Alchemy
Forum refer to as Reciprocal Action. I have found this outline very useful. I ha
ve condensed
RHYTHM - EVERYTHING IN MOTION- CONTINUAL EBB AND FLOW
The Law Of Compensation - The Law of Neutralization
"Do unto others as you would do unto thyself." There is no other.
You are very important and your claim of Identity and what you do or
dont do or say or think is very important and causal. What you put out ,
comes back sometimes in strange and unrecognized ways!
Below is a shortened resume consisting mainly of quotes, as put forward
in some of the Hierophant Teachings of Vero. We must understand this
principle in order to work it rightly.
Principles of Compensation:
"Man must make every dealing with another being a symbolic encounter
between himself and the True Self through the so-called "other". A hatred
or attack on another is a slash at Your Self:..."
"We must give value in exchange for value." ( No
accommodations/rationalizations -pay the price.)
"We must sort out real hardship,which is very occasional, from imagined
and paranoid hardship, and we must use this, especially in our dealings
with fellow mystics, to work through these illusions .........." "Pay
now, and you honor yourself ......."
"True charity is earned from God; it is not whimsically or defensively or

seductively dispensed by fearful man. Take what is unjust, for whatever

reason, and the Law of Universal Compensation called Karma will so
rebalance the life that you will pay your debts ten times over in other
ways if you seek to escape them initially."
"When someone gives a gift, that fact of "gift" which you are free to
refuse, does not discharge the obligation of compensation. If not to the
giver, then to others in kind and in like measure of sacrifice, you become
a debtor, who must freely pay and serve others or experience the
inevitable backswing of the Law of Compensation. in the world of
circumstance. Especially in your dealings with fellow workers of a
mystical path, justice in compensation is swift, sure and occasionally
terrible: for the purpose of the event is to learn that the fears of loss
are the enemy and avoidance is impossible since merely the arena of
experience and payment shifts but never the lesson nor the debt. Never."
"When one asks another for accommodation in payment of a debt justly owed
for service and value, one asks another to act as a lender, as a
creditor..." "that allowance does not eliminate another and greater debt
thus created by so imposing upon the generosity or fear of another, a debt
which you will pay in time by having to endure a hard imposition of this
sort yourself."
"A mystic above all other people, must know the value of what he gives,
and exchange values for what he receives. Any avoidance of the Laws of
Compensation creates very powerful imbalances in a life, and that
compensation will be paid to the universe ten-fold and when you are least
anxious to pay it." * VERO
RHYTHM THE DANCE OF LIFE THE DANCE ETERNAL
The Music of the Stars, the Universe. The ebb and flow of the tides. Day
and night. Hot and cold. In and out, up and down. Rich and poor, back and
forth ...The pendulum swings unerringly and eternally. The only way out is
to get above the swing and there in balance watch as it swings below you.
Who must you be to sit "up there?" Someone who has come to know
Universal Principle by the increase of perspective and Identity of the
Self. Someone who gathers wisdom in a pervading surround and someone who
cares to establish who they were into a transcendental persona who, in
balance, is a receptor for the Primal Will To Good. Never can it be your
"little will" that transcends humanity and unites all into One, but "Thy
Will be Done"..through you for The Everlasting Glory of All. Now some of
this sounds heavy, ponderous, weighty and solemn. This need not be so.
Perspective is all and humor pervades and conquers the darkest corners of
mans nature and therefore the world and nature herself, for what is the
nature of Nature anyway if all is one and this is your story????
So how you see it is how it is. Shakespeare states, in The Tempest, that
its not what happens but "Its how you take the blow..." Also being
causal, whether you know it or not, its once again - your story.
A discrepancy? i.e. when a young innocent infant is born into tragic
circumstances? Cry and torment as you may, is it possible to conceive that
a Soul selects its own parents and the degree of "pressure" to be born
into, in order to transcend this birthing- this moment of conscious life and more to have a great strong and deep "spring" off the diving board of
embodied life. When you are in the nadir, the pits - you can not go down
but only up or into non -existence. Oblivion!
Also, conceive that if there is no real time in the ultimate "True Value
Universe", Man can be undergoing all experiences, all lifetimes,
rebirths, all birthing of the self forward again simultaneously - not
progressively. Although most minds find "successive progression" a

convenient reference toward understanding this concept in terms they are

able to. And conceive that within THE MIND, beyond your present knowledge
of how its intricacies work, you can "select" the pathway while still
having the "destiny" to undergo all there is - one way or the other. So
Meditative reconciliation may not be ruled out for that is how a Seer
will not be given more than he/she can bear . Yet, once again we come to
Rhythm working through Polarity.
The best, the worst until you can know there is another way to do it. To
change yourself, climb The Tree of Life, raise consciousness on the
planes (the ladder of metals). Oh, you dont have to know everything-where
you are, how to do it specifically You do have to have a "true heart", to
desire it, strive to learn the mysteries from a trusted teacher and your
own interior quest for Truth of the matter, the Universe and for the
TRUTH PRINCIPLES THAT RUN THE UNIVERSE. Find them by exploring the true
nature of yourself and the meaning of Who You Are, and thus understand the
nature of All by The Law of Correspondence. "As above, so below. As below,
so above.." Remember that unless you put these principles into your life,
all the reading and knowledge and even understanding will not get you over
the threshold into Infinity with consciousness. Recall Who You Are and
say; "I have Immortal yearnings..." Do it! Go for it!
There is a MEMORY OF PERFECTION within you that once awakened, establishes
an imperative in the blood. Its a whirl of a ride and rhythm makes it
very interesting.
Fri Apr 05 22:10:47 1996
Subject: 0612 Kerotakis
From: Jfruther
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:12 -0500
>Have you take a look in Forbes' classic *A short history of the art of
>distillation*, reedited by Brill.?
>Claude Gagnon
Thanks, for the information, are there any bibliographic information
available for this book?
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.
Sat Apr 06 11:47:43 1996
Subject: 0613 Weiser Books
From: dpriver
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:09:44 -0800
For the West Coast Crowd:
Many of Weiser's titles carried at 310-451-1224 in Los Angeles.
Sat Apr 06 11:47:59 1996
Subject: 0614 Question - law of reciprocal action
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 15:42:24 -0500

In a message dated 96-04-05 07:32:30 EST, you write:

>From: photopro
>
>Is the law of reciprocal action, that many in this forum are referring
>to, what I call the law of compensation? That is balance restored in
>the universe.
Perhaps "a Universe in balance" would be a more complete phrasing.
At no point is the Universe "out" of balance, so there is not a
"resoration", per se...though it may seem that way to our limited
human perspective.
This is a very important point: As physical human beings, our
perspective is limited. Yet we also have the power to transcend
these physical limitations and limitlessly broaden our perspectives.
At the physical level, our path to understanding is through singularity
of focus. We Solve' the Infinite into finite enough chunks for our
limited brains to handle. So we humans create Laws to define our
Universe, as a way of grasping hold of the Un-graspable Infinite.
Each of these Laws is both true and un-true, when considered in
relation to the Infinite Whole; but at this physical level, they provide
us with a proven key to un-lock the seeming chaos.
:) Rawn Clark
5 Apr 96
Mon Apr 08 13:08:54 1996
Subject: 0624 The Law of Reciprocal Action
From: RawnClark
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 15:52:00 -0400
In a message dated 96-04-07 07:47:48 EDT, you write:
>Also, no one has yet given specific examples about how exactly they
>make decisions to do, or not to do something, based on Karma.
>
>- Peggy >
>
Aye, and there's the rub! The application of these Laws can be a tricky
business, especially it seems, as concerns one's personal "karma". The key
question to ask oneself when attempting to apply these Laws is: "Why?" For
instance: To what end am I a good person in the world? Is it simply the way
I am? Or is it all an effort to manipulate my karma? The latter is
manipulation, with all its negative shades, no matter how one justifies it,
and will usually lead to a viscious circle of karmic indebtedness instead of
a mitigation. Yet this latter, is how most view the process -- i.e. If I do
good things, good things will be done to me. While this is an essential
truism (that good nets good), when it is held up as a "reward" for "doing
good" however, it debases to greed and rate-of-exchange. Motivation is the
ingredient we bring to these Laws whenever we employ them, and it inexorably
shades our experience of them. This is one reason why "Know Thyself" is
repeated over and over and over again.
In my personal experience, there are many levels of karma. I have found none

of them to be avoidable (and there are a couple of bits I'd REALLY like to
avoid); but many of them are completely transformable by the attitude I carry
with me as I encounter them (oddly enough, this is escpecially true of those
bits I'd like most to avoid...). This is where I find the greatest
possibility for creative input. My response to my karma, allows me to
sometimes alter the *way* in which it expresses itself in my life, but not
the fact that it *will* express itself. I find this impossible to accurately
express in words...
The question of "Why?", is a moral one, to which we must each craft our own
answer -- I mean no moral judgements of others in my statements here, but
only to raise these questions, and to hopefully answer Peggy's question in
part.
:) Rawn Clark
7 Apr 96
PS: Okay, here's a practical example for you Peggy: I know my "Car-ma" is
tenuous, so I'm taking my vacation (a drive of several hundred miles)
*before* Mercury goes retrograde. ;-) My poor car will probably phart once
and fall apart, after Merc retro's, but at least it'll be at home, and I'll
have had my trip! Thats the plan at least...
Sat Apr 13 14:15:48 1996
Subject: 0666 20th Century alchemists
From: RawnClark
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 23:18:44 -0400
In a message dated 96-04-12 18:21:46 EDT, you write:
>There was no prolonging of life here.
>I do not think both of them [Roger Caro & Archibald Cockren] were liars.
>This seems to pose more questions than answers.
>
>Pat zalewski
Did anyone ask these folks if they had actually employed the Stone personally
for such a use? It is after all, a matter of choice at such a juncture, no?
There are also considerations of personal karma when the issue of prolonging
life arises. Though the Stone may return the body to a state of health, I
see many ways in which that would not necessarily equal prolonging the life
of said body. It would be very enlightening to hear from folks who conversed
with these Alchemists, whether or not they ever stated their preferences or
expectations in this matter.
Great achievement, does not necessarily require that the achiever use the
fruits of their labor in the ways another might expect, or even understand.
Yet, we all tend to judge the results of others by the standard of our own
level of understanding. Human lives are not as simple as chemistry, not as
predictable, because we can never grasp the entirety of another's experience
and perspective. How then are we to judge another's claim of completion of
the Great Work without physical evidence of transmutation (or any other
accepted test of the Stone)? We certainly have no such concrete evidence
remaining with which to judge the writings of the Sages.
Yet somehow we judge, as is our human way. Without physical evidence to
examine, or witnesses to such an examination, we must call upon our intuition
and our rational intellect, and then personally decide......or not.

:) Rawn Clark
12 Apr 96
Sun Apr 14 22:55:58 1996
Subject: 0678 Roger Caro's work
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 14 Apr 96 13:34:02 EDT
Dear John,
you asked me: >Was the stone that you wrote about put through three revolutions
of the wheel or only one?<
This is a good consideration. To the best of my knowledge, the work was always
interrupted after the union of the three materials, and after the mixture had
gone through a series of color changes. If one gives together the three
alchemical principles of this work in a hermetically locked flask, so it must be
shaken well. During the first phase of the work the mixture becomes very hot.
The work is quite dangerous, since the flask can explode. Then one digests the
mixture during a ten-day period, whereby it goes through the following colors:
red, brown, black and green black. What was made indeed after this first stage
with the vessel, I don't know. Some time I will ask the concerning people, how
the process was continued.
Your question could explain the failure of the experiments. I have personally
thought quite never about this possible momentous error. Presumably the first
rotation was quite never properly finished. Whether several rotations were made
with the same mixture, I do not know. Perhaps the success would have arisen, if
always the work would not have been interrupted too early, and one would
patiently have digested further.
Thank you very much for your reference!
Lapis
Mon Apr 15 09:53:28 1996
Subject: 0684 WPG is not the philosopher's stone!
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 14 Apr 96 19:06:33 EDT
Dear Tim,
you wrote:
>In my opinion Hudson may be "pure 20th century", but pure 20th
century fraud and/or delusion.<
I am not so sure whether a so sharp judgment is justified. I have examined the
patent of Hudson and studied further documents of his research. It seems very
probable that Hudson has described a novel state of matter. The physical data
are quite convincing in part, though I mean, they would have to be seriously
examined by independent laboratories.
I understand your dislike opposite the Hudson gang, if one considers the
exaggerated enthusiasm of many disciples of Hudson. However I recommend you to

be a little more tolerant. Never forget: It can only be helped whom, who wants
to be helped! If somebody especially is inclined to the Hudson work, so this may
correspond to his current state of development. He must and will pick up his
experience, which will teach him, that there are still other and perhaps much
better things. You must distinguish between the right at the Hudson material and
the nonsense, which by Hudson and especially eager disciples has been spread for
marvels.
What bothers me at the monatomic gold is the fact, that it should have a white
color in pure form. If one considers the further characteristics of this gold
and compares it to the characteristics of the philosopher's stone, so the great
differences become evident. The philosopher's stone is not white! The monatomic
gold is not the philosopher's stone! You may therefore quietly return again into
your lab and follow up your own works...
Consider well: Everybody is right somewhere and somehow. Therefore also at
Hudson something will be found, which is worth to know. I suppose that monatomic
gold could be valuable as raw material for alchemical works. But the
philosopher's stone is not found with the discovery of the monatomic state of
matter. Perhaps the whole story can teach us, how we can better understand real
alchemical processes.
Lapis
Tue Apr 16 10:36:18 1996
Subject: 0707 The hidden Sun- and Moonlight
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 15 Apr 96 15:24:48 EDT
In alchemy the polarity of the sun and the moon arises again and again. The
metallic gold and silver can be understood by it, but also the male or
philosophical sulphur and the feminine mercury as universal menstruum. About
such meanings I would not like to speak now. In the following I would like to
consider more the energetic background of the polarity of the sun and the moon.
Namely there are the concealed energies - first and foremost the magnetic and
electric fluid - which play an important role in practical alchemy.
The electric fluid is associated with the sun, the magnetic fluid with the moon.
How does it be with the practical application of these energies?
Karl baron of Reichenbach has ascertained in his work with sensitives, that the
quality of the sunlight and the moonlight is different. The both fluids are
mediated by both celestial objects. While the sun sends out the electric fluid,
the moonlight reflects the magnetic fluid. During the day the fluid of the sun
arrives in the upper areas of the earthly atmosphere. Though the sunlight
streams on the earth and is directly perceptible on the earth's surface, the
corresponding fluid lingers - the positive side of the universal mercury - due
to its fiery volatility in the upper spheres of the atmosphere. The getting
through the atmosphere requires both some time as well as the help of the cool
heavy lunar od. Therefore the solar fluid arrives first on the earth's surface
during the night, when the radiation ot the cool moon prevails.
During the night the moonlight just as arrives in the upper areas of the
atmosphere and affects the earth's surface first in the morning and during the
day. Only in this way the observation of Reichenbach can be explained as far as
goes the od. Sensitives namely have ascertained, that during the day the blue od
(magnetic fluid) is visible, while during the night the red od (electric fluid)
prevails. This alleged contradiction with the rhythm of sun and moon in the sky
can be explained by the temporal delay due to the passage of the fluids through
the atmosphere.

One may say therefore, that the effect of the both fluids correlates on the
earth's surface timewise with the body in the sky, which radiates the
counterprinciple. This observation is very important for practical alchemy. For
one would like to catch the solar od, so must be worked during the night. If
against it one would like to get hold of the lunar od, so the work has to result
in the daytime, especially in the morning. This view contradicts one would
logically expect.
Beside that one may not forget, that matter itself as binding matrix has the
fluids in it. In so far as one is trying to release the bound fluids, one does
not need to pay attention on the course of day. Thus all partial processes of
the preparatory work are not bound to a certain time. You can accomplish these
works, when you want.
In the rework or when loading a suitable condenser with the both fluids
originating from the cosmos, the point in time is important against it. If one
would like to increasingly load a matter with the positive fluid, so it is to be
exposed to the free night sky, but to hold covered or locked during the day.
Conversely the same is valid for the negative fluid.
I have the impression that the most present alchemists do not know this
difference altogether, never mind consider it in reality. Therefore I have
written this contribution. Indeed I would like to emphasize: The above-mentioned
presents only the general behavior of the both fluids. If one knows however this
behavior, so can he accomplish more differentiated experiments in his own lab.
If other members can take their personal stand from practical experience to the
above-mentioned remarks, so corresponding contributions would surely be welcome
to all members of the forum.
Lapis
"Alterius non sit, qui suus esse potest." (Paracelsus)
(Be no other's servant, if you can be yours own master.)
Wed Apr 17 17:50:44 1996
Subject: 0731 The seed out of nature
From: Beat Krummenacher
Date: 16 Apr 96 18:47:41 EDT
Petra asked: >Where do you get the seed from if not from within the Alchemist?<
The simple answer: From nature. Nature contains in itself all necessary energies
to the great work. Indeed matter is composed of parts, which hinder the release
and radiation of the concealed energies, and of parts, which are strong
condensers of the concealed energies.
In reality it counts to separate the material supporting emanation by the
material impeding emanation and to purify and to unite it in a supremely loaded
form again. That is spagyrics, that is uniting and separating again. Indeed it
is more complicated to put into practice as it sounds. Therefore many have had
the erroneous sight, the alchemists would have described in their books only
inner processes of the psyche.
Thu May 02 22:10:59 1996
Subject: 0802 Divine Revelation & Secrecy
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:39:15 -0400

Douwe wrote:
>"So, secrets don't exist more then the bolts that lock the full/new
>soul and spirit and body from them, and these same bolts have to be
>removed by yourself, no one will be able to do that for you.
>From that point on the secrets will not be secrets anymore, but you
>might find yourself saying less....."
You touch here on what the sages described as "Divine revelation", which for
me, is at the root of "secrecy" as it relates to things alchemical or occult.
Of course, in the absence of such revelations, we can find no valid reason
(historical persecution aside) for this related secrecy. The old adage about
not seeing the forest because of one's focus upon the individual trees, is
apt here...we are Naturally limited by our perspective. Furthermore,
"secrecy" has become "tradition" and is often applied to innocuous things, in
completely inappropriate ways (often out of the personal ego needs of the
occultor), simply because that is what one has learned to do.
I would like to illustrate "Divine revelation" and the secrecy it engenders,
by a personal story. For many years, I applied my interpretation of the
alchemical texts in a purely "spiritual" sense of a serious mental and astral
discipline. This approach has served me well and led me to places and states
of being that amaze and satisfy me. Along this journey, I have come to see
things differently (the whole point of a journey, no?), and now seek to
pursue a physical, laboratory alchemy in an effort to physically manifest
what I have achieved astrally and mentally. Every step along the way, every
experience, has served to slightly or greatly, broaden my perspective. [ I
blush then grin then laugh uproariously when I read some of my original
journal entries! ;-) ]
At any rate, I recently came to a realization as regards a certain matter. I
was utterly amazed and awestruck by the Sublime Obviousness of my seemingly
'hard won' realization. The Utter Simplicity of it, combined with the fact
that I hadn't seen it till that moment, abide no other words than "Divine
revelation"! The impact of this quite simple -- humbling, in fact -realization has been quite cathartic, and has opened a whole new doorway of
my journey.
I needed to discuss this with someone more learned than my humbled self, and
in doing so, found that I couldn't actually name it in writing... Certainly,
I could have physically written anything I chose, and as was pointed out to
me, many had plainly done so before me; but that was not the issue. I felt
no injunction from outside of myself, the reluctance came purely from within.
It comes from my respectful worship of Divine Providence, and the sacredness
I see in the inividual journey of discovery that S/He has led me through. It
does not feel to be within my domain to deny another the struggle and the joy
of such a process of Divine revelation, so even in writing to one who already
knew, I could only speak in symbols. Of course, my meaning was plain to this
one who already had made their own journey.
My point is that certain things are made secret not by virtue of their not
being everywhere plainly stated, but by virtue of our limited perspective and
understanding. Essential secrecy (as opposed to an egoistic secrecy) is not
a function of someone withholding information; but rather, a function of the
maturity of our ability to understand what they are saying in the way in
which *they* are meaning it.
Learning Nature's language, so to speak, has led me to a deep and abiding
faith that there will always be little revelations along the way, for each
and every one of us. Each "secret" will be realized in one's own time and in

one's own way, simply because that's Nature's way.

:) Rawn Clark
2 May 96
Thu May 09 20:53:25 1996
Subject: 0842 Dew and alchemy
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:34:56 -0400
I realize this is totally irrelevant to Joel's information request, but what
the hell....has risking irrelevancy ever deterred me before? ;) At least
it's alchemical...
Some Particulate-Water Thoughts:
Earth of water: Hail, Ice, Snow.-- downward tending & solid.
Water of water: Rain.-- downward tending & fluid.
Air of water: Fog, Mist, Cloud.--upward tending when heated,
downward tending when cooled.
Fire of water: Dew.-- upward tending.
*********
Earth of water, holds the particular ability to capture the light of either
sun or moon within a crystalline matrix, multiplied by the individuality of
each falling crystal.
Water of water, is much more generalized, and works to spread the celestial
influences it carries. It penetrates and nourishes the Earth.
Air of water, is a state of great activity and movement. Each particulate is
circulated and exposed to the celestial forces of sun and/or moon, absorbing
great amounts of the fluids.
Fire of water, rises from the Earth, expressing/containing the cosmic
energies with which the Earth has been impregnated by the preceeding months
of winter. Dew forms just before dawn, pulled out of the Earth by the
increase in the magnetic fluid which accompanies sunrise. It is the
'Earthed' electric fluid, rising to its celestial mate, and passing quickly
through the volatile stages of dew, to evaporate-cloud, to completely
dissipated-spiritualized...and when the Great Artist (Nature) sees fit, it
recondenses, entering the visible parts of the cycle anew.
Yours in irrelevancy,
:) Rawn Clark
9 May 96
Fri May 24 15:19:00 1996
Subject: 0942 Sunspots
From: RawnClark@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 17:21:30 -0400
In a message dated 96-05-23 16:20:32 EDT, Peggy quoted:
>>Are there reports of alchemic or spiritual "flops" during quiet sun
periods?
>>(sorry if my question is naive :-))

I don't know who it was that asked this originally (sorry), but I notice that
there haven't been responses from certain forum-ites who's level of
Alchemical knowledge I personally esteem. Perhaps they are at the PON
conference???
From my limited understanding, I'd say that the "flavor" (zodiacal position)
of the Sun, and/or Moon, would be most important during the "re-work" part of
the Metallic Opus in which the Three Principles are re-joined. In the
writings of the Sages, this is the point in the process where they begin
speaking about what time of the year to proceed, etc.
In purely magical Workings, the Solar and Lunar flux *can* be of central
importance, but again this depends upon the type of Working pursued.
I hope whoever asked this question initially will re-ask it when the
conferee's have returned...or at least keep asking it till they get a
satifactory answer! ;)
:) Rawn Clark
23 May 96
hu Jun 06 07:25:16 1996
Subject: 0999 physical vs. spiritual
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 00:07:25 -0400
To me, the philosophy and imagery of Alchemy describe a
Universe wherein there is no separation between spirit and
matter; where spirit is immanent and matter is seen to be alive.
This matches my experience. A consequence of such a
Universe as this is that there is not a single aspect of our
physical existence which is separate from our spiritual path of
pursuit. What we so blithely term spiritual-alchemy has definite
physical consequences. Just as what we term physical-alchemy
has spiritual consequences. They are inseperable. To me, this
clearly points to the fact that it is our individual focus which is at
issue here, not the specific focus of Alchemy itself. Alchemia
has broad arms, eager to embrace the serious suitor. What we
find in Her embrace depends upon what we are searching for,
and since we take ourselves wherever we go, we inevitably come
face to face with ourselves along the Way.
:) Rawn Clark
5 Jun 96
Fri Jun 07 08:41:21 1996
Subject: 1008 spiritual/psychological alchemy
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:21:54 -0400
Since there seems to be some genuine and non-derisive interest in "spiritual/psy
chological alchemy" lately, I offer the following. It is based
entirely upon my own experience and study, and is meant *only* in spiritual/psyc
hological terms. There is absolutely no implied belittlement of "physical alchem
y" here, nor any intended implication that "spiritual alchemy" is the only alche
my, so please don't try to find any. ;)
I welcome comment.
*******************(-; Rawnian alchemy ;-)**********************

Our materia is who we are at the moment of our consciously beginning the
spiritual-alchemical process. We express this through our personality and
so it is our personality with which we must first work. We begin with a
discipline of deep introspection because our personalities are for the most
part un- and sub-conscious creations. We generally know them only
slightly so our first task is to take stock of our personalities in the
minutest detail and with the utmost self-honesty, bringing them up to the level
of
conscious awareness and control. When we know our personalities
thoroughly, only then are we fit to begin crafting them to a clearer, more
conscious expression of our essential selves.
The process of self-crafting the personality (the cycling of the Elements)
exposes the individuality...our Green Lion. The nascent individuality is
then led through a similar process of self-discovery and subsequent selfcrafting as it is brought to maturation...our Red Lion. While the
personality's self-crafting follows an Elemental rhythm of 4 (and by
extension, a Zodiacal rhythm of 12), the individuality's rhythm is Planetary,
and therefore based on 7.
Again, the process of self-crafting exposes a yet deeper level of Self and
the Self-crafted Individuality then pursues a Three-fold division and
purification of the Mental, Astral and Physical aspects of Self. Here there
is a rhythm of 3, yet the focus is 1. This is so because this process is the
final act of Solve', or separation, in preparation for the inevitable
Coagula.
It is the Goal of Unity which drives and directs here, not a mere lust for
differentiation.
The Coagula of the purified Principles is a process of complete and utter
integration, an eternally inseperable mixing of 3 into 1...the self-realized
Self. This implies a conscious and complete interpenetration of all aspects
of Self.
The only difference between the result of this spiritual-alchemical process
(which I'll call our Stone) and our begining materia is that the Stone is "consc
ious".
Self interpenetrates the begining materia in much the same way as it does
within the Stone, except that within the materia, lower aspects of ItSelf are
not directly conscious of higher aspects. Essentially, the process of
"spiritual alchemy" is the systematic integration of conscious awareness
throughout the whole of Self.
:) Rawn Clark
6 Jun 96
Thu Jun 20 11:32:08 1996
Subject: 1112 Tarocchi del Mantegna
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:14:34 -0400
From: RawnClark@aol.com
Thank you George for your summary of the Trojani book. If you get it
translated, will you be so kind as to pass on further info from it?
Especially more info on how he relates it to alchemy.
To me, the most startling difference between the Tarocchi del Mantegna (TdM)
and the more standard 78-card Tarot (78T), is to be found in their basic
structure. The 78T has the following structure:

22paths+40elements+16court=78. The focus of the Major Arcana, is the Paths

between Sephiroth; of the Minor Arcana -- the Tree in the Four
Worlds/Elements; and of the Court Cards -- the Elements/Personages in the
Four Worlds.
The TdM on the other hand, is divided into 5 sets of 10. The final image,
"A50 -- Prima Causa", explains the TdM's structure. The first 4 sets of 10
(groups "E,D,C, & B") represent the sphere of Malkuth, and the final set of
10 (group "A") represent, in sequence, the spheres of Yesod/Luna through Ayin
Soph/Prima Causa.
Group "E" shows the 10 Sephiroth (Malkuth through Kether) of Malkuth in
Assiah/ Elemental Earth, echoing a "400 Lights", Jacob's Ladder-ish,
schematic of the Tree. Consistent with this, group "D" represents the Tree
of Malkuth in Briah/Water; group "C", the Tree of Malkuth in Yetziah/Air; and
group "B", the Tree of Malkuth in Atziluth/Fire. {Note the sequence of
Earth/"E", Water/"D", Air/"C", Fire/"B". This is a more Hermetic, Elemental
sequence than a Qabbalistic, Four Worlds sequence, since it doesn't follow
the IHVH pattern.}
These first 40 images of the TdM share a stucture similar to the Minor Arcana
of the 78T, but the focus of both is slightly different. The groups "E"
through "B" of the TdM depict the Tree specifically as it occurs in Malkuth
(multiplied by the Worlds/Elements); whereas, the Minor Arcana of the 78T
depicts the entire Tree in the Four Worlds/Elements, inclusive of but not
specific to, Malkuth. Thus the Minor Arcana is more universally general and
the TdM's groups "E" through "B" are more specific to the sphere of Malkuth.
The 78T's Major Arcana breaks down into: 3 Element cards, 7 Planetary cards,
and 12 Zodiacal cards. Group "A" of the TdM can be stretched in meaning to
encompass the Planetary and Elemental cards of the Major Arcana (although the
TdM's focus is not upon Paths per se, but upon Spheres), but leaves out the
Zodiacal aspect. I wonder though, if the Zodiacal cards are not salted
throughout the first 4 sets of 10, in the TdM?
I'm not certain how or if the *basic structure* of the TdM relates to alchemy
(though it's quite clea
Thu Jun 20 14:51:21 1996
Subject: 1165 Tarocchi del Mantegna
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:01:36 -0400
From: RawnClark@aol.com
I just wanted to note that I've continued my discussion about the TdM with
George, off Forum, since my comments were getting further and further from a
direct relevence to Alchemy.
On a directly alchemical note, I recommend for your perusal, an interesting
series of images from the Tarocchi del Mantegna -C:22/Loica, B:35/Prudencia, B:32/Chronico, B:31/Iliaco
The first three images contain the only dragons found in the TdM. Though the
fourth image doesn't contain any dragons, its relevance to the series is
immediately apparent when viewed in the sequence I recommend. Comments???
:) Rawn Clark
19 Jun 96
----------------------------------------

Reproductions of the Tarrocchi de Mantegna are included on the web site under th
e section on articles. --- Adam McLean
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:26:57 +0000
Subject: 1233 absoluteness/Re: homunculus
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 01:25:44 -0400
From: Rawn Clark
In a message dated 96-06-28 Logodox wrote:
>If One became superconscious as mentioned above,
>then would all the billions who were not in same state
>at same time simply be "unconscious" cells ?
True attainment of a Unitary awareness (which is how I
would translate the intent of your word "superconscious"
in the above context) implies the encompassing of poles
such as conscious and unconscious. In such a state,
one is conscious within and through each and every cell
of the Whole. Even unconsciousness becomes an active
state of consciousness when considered from a Unitary
perspective. Do you understand my meaning? Essentially
the Unitary consciousness is aware of itself in each of its
cells regardless of those cell's individual self-awareness.
This is a hard concept to grasp, let alone describe, with
strict clarity.
A Unitary consciousness is not exclusive of your, or my,
individual awareness (ego), but rather, *inclusive* of them
both...and more, inclusive of It All. There is no loss of an
individual experience of self for a Unitary awareness. On
the contrary, as one approaches Unitary consciousness,
there is an expansion of self as more and more of what
was previously considered "not-self" is included in one's
self-experience. A Unitary awareness must, by definition,
pervade absolutely all things consciously, and all things
therefore, become avenues of the Unitary's self expression.
In the same sense that you are aware of your left foot as a
viable part of your physical self, a Unitary awareness is
conscious of, and employs, the countless individualities,
the countless things and non-things that populate the universe, as extensions of itself. The Whole becomes self, the
All becomes the expression of the self's will.
For a physically incarnate human being to attain a Unitary
consciousness is a truly Blessed event! It represents the
self-conscious connecting of the entire spectrum of self.
While it is a rare occurance from the perspective of any one
moment in time, the numbers are impressive over the whole
of human history.
There are many levels of self-awareness encountered as we
rise toward the Unitary. At each level, our experience and
definition of the Unitary awareness grows, and we are often
Blessed with brief glimpse-like experiences of it along the way.
Imagine a single brief glimpse's feeling of Oneness, stretched
out as a continuous state of functional awareness (not just a
stupifying bliss, but a consciously active state), and you
approach the meaning of Unitary awareness as an absolute

state. The rise of consciousness through successive levels is,

in many ways, an intentional process of repeatedly familiarizing
one's self with this Oneness, and consciously striving to link it
to one's daily experience. In this way, it gradually becomes a
more accessible, functional and steady, state of awareness.
Best to you!
:) Rawn Clark
28 Jun 96
Wed Jul 10 23:53:16 1996
Subject: 1323 Sol, Luna, Earth.
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:43:40 -0400
From: RawnClark
In Joel Tetard's wonderful post on musical scales new
his findings to the heptagram of planets/metals. This
several alchemical figures which seem to be depicting
the Work, in which the seven planets are arrayed in a
pattern of planets varies from figure to figure, from
the overall intent seems common to each.

and old, he correlates

brought to mind
a specific passage of
specific pattern. The
artist to artist, but

I have read, though cannot now pinpoint where I read it, that the Sun brings
the influence of the other planets with him. While this idea is infered in
some of the figures, it seems absent from others.
In my process of trying to understand these symbols' practical meaning, my
mind keeps returning to an examination of the planetary symbols themselves.
When I look at them, they seem to be graphically depicting the relationship
and movement of related forces. These forces are specifically Sol, Luna and
Earth, symbolized by circle, crescent and equal-armed cross, respectively.
I've been trying to place them in a sequence that made alchemical sense
to me, to somehow line them up in an order that revealed the overall symbol's
meaning. [I should note here that I am completely aware of the fact that the
planetary symbols are also graphic descriptions of the physical properties of
their respective metals. I think however, that they mean more than just this
in many alchemical figures.]
My inclination to a strict Qabbalistic sequencing nets me very little in
relation to a physical work (though it provides ample inspiration for a
"spiritual" work!). Of the many options I've examined, few have been very
satisfying. However, as in all learning and especially in the learning of
alchemy, my perspective grows and what made no sense before often makes
glaringly simple sense at a later date. ;-) Such was the case when I placed
the planetary symbols in sequence determined by the tonal correspondences
provided by Joel. Lining them up, A through G, nets the sequence: Jupiter,
Saturn, Luna, Mercury, Venus, Sol, Mars. I have toyed with this sequence
previously, but didn't see it then in the same light as I do now.
Based upon my studies of alchemical literature...*and not upon extensive
laboratory work, so I'm speculating here*...I place this part of the process
represented by the 7-planets-arrayed glyph in the preparatory work of
maturing the Green Lion. I speculate that this seven-fold process results in
a) the Red Lion (holding within it the Sal and Sulphur); and b) the Spirits
(holding within it the Mercury).
Placed in the above tenuous and unproven context of my speculation, I line up
the planetary symbols into the following meaning:
A) Jupiter -- Luna descending upon the surface of the materia.

B) Saturn -- Luna penetrates the materia.

C) Luna -- The materia is completely Lunarized.
D) Mercury -- Luna brings Sol to the materia (either the Sol which lies
within her reflection of light, or this is an inference to Luna's magnetic
pull of Sol's Electric push).
E) Venus -- Sol descending upon the materia.
F) Sol -- The materia is completely Solarized.
G) Mars -- Sol penetrates the materia. The materia's Solarity projects
outward.
This seems to lead the materia through a process which begins with the
materia as a passive thing and ends with it as a radiant, emergant force.
Luna acts as a soft force, as it were, bringing with her, the seed of
activity, or the sol-light at her core.
But still this explanation is dissatisfying. There are too many things
dangling, too many gaping holes in its apparant applicability to the
laboratory Work. My laboratory experience being what it is (minimal), I am
at a standstill in deciphering this symbol's meaning and realize that only
more lab experience will remedy the situation. Until I do aquire sufficient
lab acumen, I would greatly appreciate Forum comments on my line of thinking.
A main question, assuming I'm on the right track, is do these 7 planets
symbolize a process that occurs during the sequential separation of the
spirits, essentially enacted upon the cloud of spirits themselves; or do they
refer to the forces which cause the actual separation of the spirits?
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
10 July 96
Subject: 1352 Sol, Luna, Earth
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:34:42 -0400
From: Rawn Clark
Dear John,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my "Sol, Luna, Earth" post. Your
reply raises several questions and I am not sure I understand your meaning,
so please bear with me as I seek your clarification.
First off, my question regarding the planetary symbols was in reference to a
specifically physical laboratory process upon a physical materia. At several
points in reading your response, I wonderered if I was trying to squeeze
laboratory relevant meaning from words which intend a psychological/spiritual
meaning instead. So, my first question is -- Are your responses based upon a
laboratory experience or upon a psychological/spiritual experience?
>This response has its foundation in esoteric astrology as it applies to
>alchemy and is based upon the following presumptions/observations:
>1) The processes of nature are designed to produce gold out of the
>substances which co-operate with it.
Are you saying here that the "processes of nature" are separate from the
"substances" involved? And what happens to the "substances" which don't
"co-operate"? Do you see the universe as being separated into "gold" and
not-"gold", with the pole of "gold" being the direction in which all things
evolve/move? Hmmm....this seems very dualistic to me. Certainly the
Hermetic doctrine of Polarity can be interpreted in a dualistic sense, but
this negates large parts of the rest of Hermetic thought, which focus upon

the human ability to self-craft a Center capable of encompassing _both_

poles.
>2) The individual planets DO NOT symbolize a process but EACH planet
>symbolizes a condition. (for instance Mercury, by itself, is not a process
>but, rather, a condition)
>3) The interaction of the various conditions represented by the
>individual planets reveal the processes.
From this, I understand you to be saying that the planets each represent
static states, and that it is the interaction of these static states that
constitutes the processes (of nature?).
>4) The "forces" which cause the actual separation is only 1 force with
>different attributes. This force operates invisibly until the Alchemist
>includes him/herself as one of the "substances" being operated upon.
>
>An Alchemist can observe the movements of the planets, much like an
>astronomer, and never begin the "work" of alchemy. In order for the work of
>alchemy to begin the observer/alchemist MUST place him or herself in
>relationship to the movements of the planets. The way that this is
>accomplished is by superimposing the movements of the planets over the
>placements of the planets at the time of the birth of the neo/alchemist.
>
Are you suggesting following the real-time transits to one's natal chart as a
path of self-discovery, and that this alone will reveal an otherwise
invisible force? Is this what you mean by "the 'work' of alchemy"?
>5) "God" is the Supreme Alchemist (as well as the Great Geometer) and
>the processes of "God" are revealed by the movement and interaction of the
>components of the solar system. (As above-so below).
I'm still getting overtones of dualism here, under the guise of Hermetics.
Your words convey the idea of separation between "God"/spirit/Above and
matter/human/Below, whereas the passage of the Emerald Tablet you quote
describes instead how Center is the common ground of all polarized
continuums. The term "as Above, so Below..." is not simple dualism. "Above"
postulates 1) the starting point from which there is an "above", and 2) an
unlimited upwardness. "Below" likewise establishes 1) the starting point
from which there is a "below", and 2) an unlimited downwardness. The Emerald
Tablet's statement that "above is like below", and vise versa, places them on
a continuum of alikeness. This creates an infinite continuum with only one
"thing" clearly defined -- the Center, from which "above" and "below" stretch
infinitely.
>This way, as an example, when firey Mars transits the Alchemist's Mercury
>then he or she can record the event along with all of his or her
>self-observations. The timing of "alchemical experiments" to celestial
>events reinforces this process. In fact, the experiments of the alchemist
>attempt to duplicate the processes which are revealed by the movements of
>the planets.
I can take this statement several ways, and each depends upon whether you
mean this in a laboratory-alchemy sense or in a spiritual-alchemy sense.
Would you care to be more specific, especially as regards that last, very
broad, sentence?
>Regarding the planetary symbols - a circle indicates spirit, a cross
>indicates matter, a cresent indicates duality/polarity.

That's certainly one set of correspondences, but I still think that there is
a more practical set for laboratory alchemy and magic in general. Circle =
Sol, gold, Electric Fluid. Crescent = Luna, silver, Magnetic Fluid.
Equal-armed Cross = the Four Elements acting in unison ("matter" as it
were). Hence the representation of Venus, showing copper with a golden
exterior and an inner "corruption". Or mercury, the metal, with it's silvery
exterior, golden characteristics, and inner "corruption". The symbol for
Mars is perhaps more complex that just an arrow pointing up from a circle,
and I recommend a look into its variations. It points more towards its
silvery exterior, "corrupt" characteristics, and Electrical core. But these
are details important to a laboratory approach and not to a spiritual
approach necessarily, so again I wonder whether I'm trying to inappropriately
squeeze a laboratory relevance from your words.
>planets and their corresponding notes, however, it will take on no real
>meaning whatsoever until you first understand how your planets (and notes)
>are arranged by investigating your astrological birth chart and then
>relating it to the current movement of the spheres.
I agree that natal astrology and transits are significant, but I'm not clear
if you're making a direct reference to my specific question regarding the
laboratory work. Are you saying that the image of the 7-planets, in this
particular part of the laboratory work, is indicating that the alchemist must
somehow power the process by their own natal dynamic? Or are you somehow
referencing the "invisible force" and suggesting that the alchemist must
somehow reference this force to their natal astrology? I don't understand
what you're saying here...
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
16 July 96
Subject: 1431 Alchemical Tarot deck
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 19:57:54 -0400
From: Rawn Clark
In a message dated 96-07-26 07:46:11 EDT, you write:
>Maybe I'm an "old-time-lover" - but most of these compilations seems to lose
>both the original symbolism of Tarot, and the symbolism of Alchemy.
>(Maybe this is not the case...)
>
>Recent times (the past 100 years) launched a lot of Tarot derivates, which
>are just "somehow similar to Tarot", but make a total mix of ideas and
>symbols.
>Then the original Tarot, used to encryption (for example Sefer Jecira), etc.
>gets spoiled and lost by these... With new and new Tarot decks comes the
>danger of losing the only true original one and the traditions bound to
>it...
>
>Correct me, if I'm wrong...
>
>Semi.
Dear Semi,
I disagree (though I can't speak specifically to this new Alchemical Tarot)
with your comments for several reasons:
1) Tarot, like Alchemy, is a living tradition, not a static thing. The mere

fact of the existence of so many tarot, and pseudo-tarot, decks is proof of

this, regardless of what one may think of each individual deck's worth. And
this Alchemy Forum alone, evinces the aliveness of Alchemy! ;) Living
things evolve and continuously re-interpret the past into the context of the
present moment, and visa versa. These new Tarot decks seem just a natural
part of Tarot's evolution.
2) We each cherish the mythology we choose, no? A very popular mythology of
the Tarot is that is has ancient Egyptian (or any other land of personal
choice) origins, having been passed down occultly through the millennia.
While this is *symbolically* meaningful, it is just as historically untrue
as are the mythologies surrounding the origins of the Torah, the New
Testament, the Emerald Tablet of Hermes, and probably most of our sacred
texts. I think it is important to separate mythology from history when we
consider the origins of Tarot and especially when we speak in such dogmatic
terms as "the only true original one".
3) We are five centuries into a long rush of new Tarot decks...some of them
have been real gems. The oldest known decks of Tarot have been recently
reprinted, so I doubt there is much chance of our losing sight of modern
Tarot's roots.
4) While I don't find any direct historical evidence that the Tarot was
originally intended to depict the principles of the Sepher Yetzirah, I do
find ample evidence that it was *later* in Tarot's history that these
correspondences where drawn. Nonetheless, this Qabbalistic-origin theory has
become a part of the popular mythology of Tarot, the importance of which is
amply demonstrated by the fact that most of us have learned to use Tarot
based on these Hermetic-Qabbalistic correspondences. Jewish Kabbalists
flatly refute any correlation between Hebrew Kabbalah and the Tarot, and to
me, the modern Tarot's correspondences are clearly of the
Hermetic-Kabbalistic branch and not direct off the Hebrew root. So, even
accepting a Qabbalistic root, that root is from a fairly recent branch. I
would agree however, that Tarot has *become* Qabbal-ized. ;)
5) Further, there are many differing traditions of the correspondences
between Tarot and Qabbalah. I can reach behind me to my library and find at
least a dozen conflicting systems! Oddly enough, each claims to be the right
one, but in reality, each is only one of many interpretations. This is no
less true for Alchemical symbolism!
Personally, I cherish the opportunity of access to so very many different
perspectives on the world. While I hold and cultivate my own unique
perspective, I find it is often another's perspective which intiates my own
growth. So I say "right on!" to anybody who has the guts to put forth their
own interpretation...I think it simply adds to our choices, whether we find
the options presented to be to our personal liking or not.
We are, after all, always brought back to the main point, which is the making
up of our own minds for ourselves.
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
26 July 96
ubject: 1508 Dualism
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 23:53:20 -0400
From: Rawn Clark
Several days ago someone asked how central a strict dualism is to the

alchemists on the forum. Here are my two cents worth on the subject. ;)
*****************************************************************
Perceiver --> filter of personal bias --> essential universe.
Over-simplified, these are the players in human perception. It is at the
level of the filter of personal bias that we "create our own universe". This
universe is illusory in that it is composed of and determined by our
reactions to what we perceive of the essential universe *through our filter
of personal bias* (a reaction to a reaction). It is conversely real in that
we experience it and are changed by it. It is self-perpetuating and its
relevance to the essential universe varies from individual to individual.
Perception through the filter of personal bias produces a polarized vision of
the universe. This places us in contention with the essential universe as we
try to supercede it with our self-created universe. Relfecting the
subconscious binary-logic of the ego's most rudimentary self-defining, we end
up experiencing the universe as divided into 'self' and 'other'. The pole of
'other' however, is completely referenced to 'self' and is not a perception
of the essential universe...again, it is both illusory and real, a reaction
to a reaction.
In a path of self-realization, an esential first-step is a scrutiny of one's
filter of bias. Only when this filter is known and then set aside, is there
a perception of the essential universe itself. Up until then, perception is
completely self-involved, revealing more about one's own psyche than the
universe.
Direct perception of the essential universe is the opposite of "creating our
own universe". At the level of the filter of bias, we are
separated/separating from the essential universe; but when this filter is set
aside, we find ourselves to be within and a part of the essential universe.
This shift in perspective allows one to see that 'other' *is* 'self'.
In my opinion, this is the level of perception which alchemy and hermetic
philosophy speak to. And while both can be tortured into alignment with a
strict dualist philosophy, I think doing so discolors the profound treasure
they offer.
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
3 Aug 96

Lapis
Wed Apr 17 17:50:27 1996
Subject: 0729 Sunlight/Moonlight
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:50:18 -0400
Dear Beat,
Thank you so much for your important post!

Throughout this past lunation (New Moon to New Moon) I have been
studying the rhythm of the Fluids and have discovered the following:
1) In my observations, this archetypal rhythm was exact only on the day of
Full Moon itself (when she was truly opposite the Sun). During the 3 days
preceeding and following exact Full Moon (seven days in total), there was
indeed a fairly even correlation between day/Magnetic Fluid (MF) and
night/Electric Fluid (EF). I observed the following archetypal pattern:
Sunrise to noon -- MF increases steadily, peaking around mid-morning and
holding this crest till noon. Noon to sunset -- MF fades as EF increases,
reaching an approximate balance at sunset. Sunset to midnight -- EF
increases steadily, peaking by the time Moon reaches about 11 o'clock, and
holding this crest till it reaches about 2 o'clock in the sky. Midnight to
sunrise -- EF fades as MF increases, reaching an approximate balance at
sunrise.
2) At New Moon, the Fluids are mixed, Mercurial... There is less polarity,
yet the EF seems predominant. During the waxing Moon, the Fluids slowly
differentiate and polarize. During the waning Moon, the opposite occurs,
and the Fluids merge.
3) The above observations are strictly regarding the physical presence of
the Fluids on the surface of the Earth here in Laytonville, California, USA;
during this past lunation with Sol in Aries. Astrally, the Fluids present a
somewhat different pattern. They are tied to the Solar sphere and the Lunar
sphere in much the same way as their physical aspects are tied to Sun and
Moon; but these subtle spheres have a different rhythm and a different
correlation to experience. As regards the astral and mental use of the
Fluids, I observed the following during the same lunation: a) My access to
the "Universal supply" of the Fluids was not affected by the lunation cycle
whatsoever. But this may simply be my personal response to this particular
lunation considering my natal astrology, etc. Direct observation of
subsequent lunations will be required to prove or disprove this conclusion.
b) Dynamic accumulation of the Fluids into a simple condenser was however
directly influenced by the phases of the lunation! At New Moon, I am able to
effect a base-line physical loading, and my standard astral and mental
loading (which far outweighs the physical load). During the seven days of
the Moon's fullness, the amount of physical load of which I am able,
increases (for both fluids and in direct correlation to time of day), and
this
has the effect of integrating a greater portion of the astral and mental load
into the physical condenser. The flow of the Fluid's manifestation from
mental, through astral, to physical, is somehow increased during the
physical polarization of Sun and Moon. The physical effectiveness of my
use of the Fluids was greater during the Moon's fullness, whereas the Fluids
directed for specific astral and mental effects were unaffected by the
lunation.
I am conjecting from my observations of this single lunation that the best
times for charging a physical condenser would be as follows:
1) During the seven days surrounding the Full Moon.
2) From sunrise till about 2pm (in the open air) for an MF load.
3) From sunset till about 2am (in the open air) for an EF load.
I am most interested to hear how, or even if, this correlates with your -- or
anyone else's -- laboratory experience.
Best to you,
:) Rawn Clark
16 Apr 96

Sat Apr 20 13:13:54 1996

Subject: 0749 Sunlight/Moonlight ?'s
From: Rawn Clark
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 23:41:39 -0400
Dear Peggy and Patrick,
Sorry, I realized upon re-reading my Sunlight/Moonlight post, that these are
questions I should have addressed....
***RE:
>>I am conjecting from my observations of this single lunation that the best
>>times for charging a physical condenser would be as follows:
>> 1) During the seven days surrounding the Full Moon.
>> 2) From sunrise till about 2pm (in the open air) for an MF load.
>> 3) From sunset till about 2am (in the open air) for an EF load.
>>
>>I am most interested to hear how, or even if, this correlates with your ->>or anyone else's -- laboratory experience.
***You asked:
>Excuse me for being dense, but how exactly did you measure this?
> [This is NOT a dense question, but a very good one!]
>Thanks,
>- Peggy And...
>What sort of "physical condenser" are you referring to here? How do
>the electric and magnetic fluids manifest themselves in the condensed
>state? E.g., as electric charge and a magnetic dipole moment?
>
>-Patrick
For many years, I have pursued the path of Hermetic magic laid out by Franz
Bardon in his book "Initiation Into Hermetics". Through this process, I have
developed my physical, astral, and mental senses, and it is with these
senses that my observations have been made. I have used no scientific
instruments, nor do I even compose my experience in those terms. I know
this will be especially frustrating for you Patrick...this is simply *my*
way.
I have worked with the Elements and the Fluids extensively and know them
well. I live very close to Nature and know Her well too. With my astral and
mental senses tuned specifically to the perception of the Fluids as they
descend to the surface of the Earth, I made thrice (at least!) daily
observations of real-time conditions. I took note of the Fluidal-tone or
prevalence, and its perceivable affect upon the Earth. I systematically
covered the cycles of the day throughout the lunation and simply correlated
my observation and my experience and concluded as above.
Throughout the lunation I also conducted experiments upon my fabled
condensers. :-) They are quite simple and rudimentary. For the EF, I used a
specific 18k gold ring; and for the MF, I used a .999 silver amulet of
personal
importance. I have loaded these objects countless times with a variety of
purposes, and know their limits (and mine in relation to them) quite well.
I performed several control loadings and achieved my usual result, which I

call my "base-line" load. This is very strong mentally and astrally, with a
small ratio of physically perceivable (by me) effect (warmth, and the tingly
"feel" with the EF; and a coldness that "feels" magnetic with the MF...sorry,
but I've never tried to describe the "feel" of the Fluids before).
I devoted a great deal of time and effort to the specific study of the Fluids
during this past lunation. I realize however, that this is simply a single
lunation -- that of Sol in Aries, specifically...perhaps the most archetypal
of the cycle. I will continue my study throughout this year (though with fewer
experiments and at a milder pace!) and see if my intial conjectures hold
true.
Many questions have arisen for me (many more than have answers) during
this study, and I am most interested to see if/how the Fluids correspond to
the Earth's cycle of changes. The Fluids seemed to have a specific Aries
"flavor" during this last lunation, so I am paying specific attention to this
aspect of my observations currently, as Luna and Sol enter Taurus.
I hope this answers your questions.
:) Rawn Clark
18 Apr 96