Professional Documents
Culture Documents
IN THIS ISSUE
FALL 2010
Fall 2010 Issue
23
1065
4912
Orb Project, a book detailing his intensive five-year study of orbs, which was
co-authored with German physicist Klaus Heinemann. He is currently working
on a new series of books titled Forbidden Truth, a three-volume work that
focuses on human destiny and the mechanics of spiritual evolution.
SC: What was the source of your initial passion for pursing a religious path?
In spirituality, there is no dichotomy: The material and the spiritual are one
and the same, just different, very different phases of the same basic reality.
SC: Was your religious focus primarily the study and intellectual pursuit of
knowledge?
ML: Yes. I have been fortunate that every year since my entry into University
that in some way, shape or form, I have been a student studying obviously
theology, but later on other disciplines. It has been an on-going process.
SC: How did you and the other seminary students negotiate the logical and
rational inconsistencies within church doctrine?
ML: There was a conflict obviously. This wasnt just a head affair for me: It
was not something abstract and intellectual, because as students we were
trying to live this every day. The people who were going through the sevenyear course would be going out to teach or administer to numbers of people
with this set of beliefs. I was going through the seminary just after the
Second Vatican Council, a time of enormous upheaval in the church, and
some people in the church regarded the changes the Council made as the
work of the devil. It caused so much confusion. I am far from saying that I
was the only person that felt this way and I imagine most people who were
my classmates did as well. There were many things in the religious state that
didnt square with us.
I think most of my contemporaries were doing the same thing that I was and
pondering the same thoughts, maybe not as intensely, but they were
certainly as aware of those theories as I was. There were many people in
positions of authority in the church that were contemplating the
inconsistencies, and a lot of them ran afoul of religious authority. This is of
course something that had always occurred throughout the history of
Christianity.
I spoke with someone the other day that insisted on the importance of
holding on to some permanently valid religious truth. I asked And where
might we hope to find that in the gospels of the New Testament, for
example? Let me suggest something.
I was probably the last person in the entire universe that would have believed
in a channel. There was so much garbage out there, so much tomfoolery
everywhere out there. I had met so much of that, I couldnt count for you how
Go to the Vatican Library today and look at the oldest manuscript that we
have of the New Testament, which is known as the Codex Vaticanus, and
was probably one of the bibles commissioned by Constantine. Another one to
look at is in the British Library called Codex Sinaiticus which was discovered
in Mount Sinai at St. Catherines Monastery. Look at those two texts, both
from the 4th century, and try to find the famous story of Jesus rescuing the
lady who is being stoned for adultery in Johns Gospel Chapter 8. It is a very
powerful story, but it is not contained in either of those manuscripts, which
means that story was inserted into the text of the New Testament for the first
time at least as late as the 4th century if not later. I can give you a hundred
other examples.
Noting awkward facts like this of course is not going to please people who
seem to believe that the inspired books of both Old and New Testaments were
somehow sent down by fax or email from God directly.
SC: When you moved from your theological study into formal academic
teaching, were you compelled to look deeper into these inconsistencies and
bring about a more enlightened perspective?
ML: Absolutely. If we are interested in getting to the truth of things like that
and focus on the actual true sources, then how can we ignore what the
sources tell us?
ML: Well, not really. I was not a solitary lone figure because there were many
people trying to do the same thing. But it was sort of a hit and run affair
between the religious authorities and the people who were getting to the
truth of things. It is sort of accepted in the church that the academics are
SC: Were you able to broaden the approach of specific theological questions
into the curriculum while Maynooth University President, or were your duties
more practical?
Say for instance, the whole question of how do you understand Jesus Christ?
It is the same question that has been there from the beginning and that has
been tearing people apart since the 4th century. If you say he was divine and
at the same time human, how do you integrate those two things into a single
individual?
SC: What avenues were open to you to explore those questions while
President?
ML: I was one of thirty members of the Popes Advisory Commission from
1980 until 1997, and with those esteemed theologians there is very high level
of discussion. That was a great opportunity, especially over that long number
of years to get to know them, be able to interact with them, and get their
views, because they were all extremely open people. They were very forward
looking, and they were all aware of the issues that were controversial.
SC: How were topics chosen, and can you share a specific example?
ML: We were given topics by the Pope himself, or others would suggest topics
and they would go through a sifting and selection process. We would work on
that for a while and then build a document. I personally wrote three of the
documents over that time.
Say for instance, the whole question of how do you understand Jesus Christ?
It is the same question that has been there from the beginning and that has
been tearing people apart since the 4th century. If you say he was divine and
at the same time human, how do you integrate those two things into a single
individual? Certainly in the way those terms are couched traditionally and in
everyday speech, it seems to be an impossibility.
ML: The Council, in fact, stated that he was both, and therein lies the
difficulty. There had always been a tendency to exalt him above the ordinary
human level by using theological techniques such as the Virginal Conception
of Jesus or the permanent Virginity of Mary. This wasnt totally new at Nicea.
The difficulty was (and still is) in being able to see how an individual could be
both divine and human, especially in that time because those notions were
irreconcilable in one person. There were certainly a great number of highly
intelligent and welleducated people at Nicea, but they had backed
themselves into a corner because there was no way they could account for
both of those things and done so in any satisfactory way.
Wisdom, I was given extensive knowledge of the Seven Levels that constitute
reality all the way back up to what we now call the zero point. If the Council
of Nicea members had had that knowledge, they would have been able to
understand how Jesus could move in and out of the physical dimension of
visibility, thus understand how the notions of divinity and humanity could be
reconciled in one individual.
SC: While the Popes Theological Commission was examining the issue of
Jesus Christ, did that discussion include the separation of man and divinity?
ML: No is the simple answer to that. Our job was basically to clarify the
implications of the historical doctrine that had been formulated. In other
words, here is the subject and produce the very best insight that you can. I
say it with great respect because these men [the other theologians on the
commission] have great integrity. Our job was basically, What can I discover
to shed light on the ancient doctrines.
SC: When did you begin to explore ideas outside the Church, other spiritual
ideas?
ML: I always did. Anyone in my position would. I wasnt unique in this. I would
have studied whatever I could get my hands on. There were insights in all of
them. Every great movement has some very powerful insights and
clarifications to help your understanding. By the time I found the Ramtha
teaching, I had identified major gaps in all religious systems, East and West.
ML: For instance, I used to teach in my own lectures that we were not here to
just obey the commandments. If you look at the teachings of Jesus, he wasnt
concerned with that. I always taught that we were here on this Earth and in
this life to accomplish some profound internal personal change. I wasnt able
to explain how that would happen, but that was something I had always
taught.
Anyone who obviously thinks at all about what the religions propose, is bound
to come to issues and problems that dont really make sense.
SC: What was the basis for you having such a perspective?
ML: From looking with a very critical eye at the teachings of the New
Testament, it was obvious to me thats what it was all about. This became
clear to me after I had studied quantum physics as a student. There is one
great statement from the Gospel of St. John that struck me as extremely odd:
Jesus said, When you pray for something, believe it is already yours and it
shall be so.
Goodness me, this is not what we are doing in the church at all. What we
were taught and told to practice was that when you want something, you
pray first and begin by demeaning yourself as far as possible with Oh God,
forgive me, have mercy on me. I am a worthless sinner. I do not deserve
this. You win God over to your side to have pity on you. Then you ask God, or
you beg or you implore, or you beseech, or pray. In other words you do
everything except what Jesus said, which is Believe its already yours. It
was obvious to me that the teachings of Jesus were tools for the manipulation
of the quantum field.
ML: I found The White Book and I read it all that night. I knew it was true. I
had always taught that we are here to accomplish our own personal inner
transmutation. Before I studied with Ramtha, I couldnt explain how that
would be done. Another of the things I saw in The White Book is how those
gaps I saw everywhere else were filled.
SC: How did you transition from Maynooth President and Papal Council
member to student of Ramtha?
ML: By law, my presidency term was limited to ten years, and I was coming
near the end of my time anyway.
I was probably the last person in the entire universe that would have believed
in a channel. There was so much garbage out there, so much tomfoolery
everywhere out there. I had met so much of that, I couldnt count for you how
many blind alleys I have gone down in my life.
I was very skeptical, but I also knew that there are many things that you have
to commit yourself to first in order to see the reality and validity of them. We
cant say prove it to me while staying disengaged. Wanting to see before
you believe is in many ways like wanting to jump across a chasm in two
phases. You dont stop halfway to see what youre doing; it just doesnt work.
I realized if I hadnt had that mindset, I would never have come to the School.
SC: What has been the great distinction between your journey within
traditional religion as opposed to your evolution as a spiritual adept?
ML: The basic realization prompted is that [in religions] there is no continuity
between the spiritual and the physical: They identify the higher realms of
frequency as spiritual, and the lower end of the realms as physical. When
pursing spiritual knowledge, there is no such division. That may seem a very
harmless statement at first sight, but it is catastrophic for the Churchs
understanding of Jesus.
In spirituality, there is no dichotomy: The material and the spiritual are one
and the same, just different, very different phases of the same basic reality.
Have you walked away from organized religion to discover a richer spiritual
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