Claire Okumura shared a link.

March 16
msnbc

China uses Trump to make case against democracy

What does Donald Trump's rise in Republican politics look like abroad? Consider this: China is using Trump as
evidence against democracy itself.
APPLE.NEWS|BY STEVE BENEN

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4Liam Bremner, Benjamin Luke Petkov and 2 others
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Liam Straughan Even under a Trump Presidency, America will still be more free than China is right now.
Like Reply March 16 at 11:50pm Edited
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Aaron Lam Have you even been to China?

Unlike Reply 4 March 16 at 11:35pm
Liam Straughan No, I haven't, but needless to say, at least in America the people have freedom of speech, the right
to a fair trial, the right to freedom of association, the right to a free press, and the right to actually go out and vote for
their leaders in a multi-party system, something China doesn't possess.
Like Reply March 16 at 11:48pm
Aaron Lam Fair enough if you believe that to be 'free' but like every Chinese person seems to be able to walk, talk,
eat, drink however they want to. They seem free enough to make their own decisions about life.
Just because they have a different justice system or different ways of governing their country doesn't make them any
less free.
Unlike Reply 3 March 16 at 11:52pm
Liam Straughan Tell that to the people in Tibet, or the Xinjiang region, where there are tanks rolling down the street,
and martial law is often in effect. Not to mention, people are setting themselves on fire to demand their individual
rights.
Like Reply March 16 at 11:57pm Edited
Liam Straughan None of this is to say that I, in any way hope Trump wins the White House, or that I don't like China,
or the Chinese people. I just think it's a fair call to say that the Chinese publication using Trump as a case against
democracy really need to look at what happens within their own country, and stop trying to hide it away from the rest
of the world.

Like Reply March 17 at 12:10am Edited

Aaron Lam I direct you back to my first comment, have you been to China? Or are you being spoonfed by the
Westernized media.
Obviously pointing out extremists will make anything, anyone, any place look shitty. "Oh wow Islamic terrorists have
bombed a city. All...See More
Unlike Reply 2 March 17 at 12:10am
Liam Straughan I direct you back to my second comment. The rights Americans hold are guaranteed under the
Constitution, and held up by the rule of law. Are you being spoonfed by the leftist groups who blindly and conveniently
ignore the human rights abuses people on their side have committed, and just go after the western "oppressors" and
"imperialists"? Obviously, pointing out a government built upon cronyism and deceit will make a certain country look
bad. China has no avenue whatsoever where people can make their voices heard, and, only until just recently, had
"re-education" camps inside its own borders, as well as less access by its citizens to clean water, or air. China has
one of the largest numbers of people in the world imprisoned for crimes of thought (hello, 1984?), or for expressing
themselves, where they mean no harm; America has no such system in place, but at least has due process, where a
defendant has the right to a trial by jury. I think as much as America has its own problems to deal with, China has a lot
more pressing problems. There is a reason the US has the largest intake of refugees every year - its system
guarantees that people will not be persecuted for wanting to have a voice in how they are governed, or how they want
the government to spend their tax dollars. It's a 2 way street.
Like Reply March 17 at 12:22am
Aaron Lam I mean I literally acknowledged everything you just said about China. It's a broken system that's a fact.
But if you think America is any better...
Sure they can voice their opinions; if they're Caucasian, heterosexual and male lol
Unlike Reply 2 March 17 at 12:26am
Aaron Lam Oh and I'm spoonfed from my non-politically biased open mind. I make up in my own mind what I decide
what is right or wrong, not what I'm told. But yeah cheers for the stereotypically left wing assumption lol.
Like Reply March 17 at 12:27am
Liam Straughan Congratulations, you just brought race, gender and sexual preference into a political debate... good
one. Yeah, but cheers for just making it about those 3 distinguishing features. Maybe with all my straight, white,
heterosexual privilege, I won't have to pay $3.50 like everyone else for my coffee every morning...
Like Reply March 17 at 12:38am
Aaron Lam I mean I pay $2 for my coffee where are you getting your coffee from?
Like Reply March 17 at 12:40am
Liam Straughan Coffee Nomad cart outside RMIT, or Caffenatics in QV. Where is this $2 coffee you speak of? Tell
me...
Like Reply 1 March 17 at 12:40am
Aaron Lam But real if you don't see how everywhere is fucked (including America) then, well, fair enough
Unlike Reply 1 March 17 at 12:41am

Jonas Anderson I am so confused as to why both of you are debating the nature of freedom in two foreign countries
instead of questioning our own skewed politics closer to home, but I'm going to add that I'm actually an American
citizen and the system there is fucked to a debatable degree. Yes, freedom of speech is assured by the Constitution;
but the black people being shot on the street by police officers might argue you on a right to fair trial. Yes, it's much
better to be a wealthy, educated, white hetero guy in America. It's not about three features, but there's a lot of proof
that being a Person Like Us helps a lot. We know this. There's a body of evidence proving it.
People are setting themselves on fire in China, but they're also chaining themselves to things and starving themselves
in America. China is trying to quell rebellion in the Xinjiang province, but America is perpetuating a process of
colonialism and use of its military and economic superpower status to direct global politics in numerous regions well
beyond its geographical borders.
China is using this to suggest to their own people how much better they are under communism, and it's a propaganda
move. It also has the convenient side-effect of embarrassing and angering the only other superpower in the world.
This was never about which system is legitimately more effective - it's just posturing.
Like Reply 2 March 17 at 2:14am Edited
Claire Okumura Kind of (?) following on from Jonas but only about the USA...
I'm not confident that with a Trump presidency, those rights Liam first mentioned will stay in place? The ways he's
inciting violence in his rallies seem to be a threat to the peoples' liberty and security of person, to start with. And take
the freedom of association for instance - will that really be kept in place for every single American citizen? Like, if you
wanted to change your religion will that be completely supported by the presidency? I'm not really sure.
And let's not forget America has in history failed to keep up fair trials like during the time of McCarthyism. Even if that
was in the 1950s, a similar kind of panic seems to be engulfing the USA that led to those show trials.
Like Reply 1 March 17 at 10:33am
Liam Straughan I reckon if Trump gets the Presidency, he'll be forced to tone it down, and back off. He's pulling out
all the stops as a candidate, but if he's in the top job, he won't have any choice but to act well... Presidential, or face
one term. John Kasich or Hillary Clinton are my own hopefuls to get it, though.
Like Reply 1 March 17 at 10:37am
Liam Bremner Chiming in on Jonas' comment about politics closer to home:
We *know* Australian politics are fucked, that's why we're not discussing the fact.
And on the topic of Trump inciting violence at his rallies:
*Any* politician who resorts to inciting violence amongst their own population has zero credibility. What a clown.
Just my $0.02.
Like Reply 3 March 17 at 12:32pm Edited