DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] Re: 51 HEY RICK Page 1 of 1

Anyway, I don't know alot about the 110's history, but DO know something about
the 51. The 51 series came to be late in 1952, was only made till early '54. So
about a year I heard. Mine's a '53 4-51. It was designed to be America's most
inexpensive diesel engine and was used mainly for stationary applications and in
construction machinery, and was also made with a "downshot" exhaust manifold for
small trucks (must have been a terriffic performer!) as well! It was a "use it
for everything" engine. Ironically, it flows and breathes alot better than a
uniflow 53, 71, etc engine! With a non restrictive exhaust it's VERY VERY
efficient! In fact, loop scavenged 2 stroke diesels are notorious for their
efficiency. As long as the exhaust is free flowing they're ultra efficient. And
no valves to cause potential problems. it was only made for a short time because
I heard the uniflow 53's came about in '53 and there was no reason to continue
with the 51. Too bad because this was one of the
best diesel designs ever concieved! I only ever have seen 3 of these in my
life---the 4-51 my dad had cobbled into a Case 1000 track loader back when i was
a kid in the 1970's, and the one I own now I got from California, and one
recently listed on ebay. I've only seen pictures of the 2-51 and never saw one
in the flesh. I'd love it if they'd have built a 3-51---a 3 cylinder valveless 2
stroke would sound so WAY cool! Can you say "snowmobile on steroids" anyone? The
51 was balanced better than a Rolls-Royce. Literally. My bud at the fair
balanced a quarter or a nickle (not sure) on the rocker cover while my 4-51 was
idling then told me to run it up to full governed no load RPM then back down and
I did---several times, and the coin never budged! It just sat dead steady. The
simple balancing arrangent and the 2 stroke principal combine to make a diesel
that's something most aren't--SMOOTH! Ironically no 4 stroke could ever match
the balance of a Detroit that didn't even have valves in
it! LOL! They were rugged, smooth, powerful extermely thrifty on fuel, and
notoriously clean burning. Add to this they were relatively light weight for a
diesel of the times (1953) and they sounded amazing (yes---they sound BETTER
than any uniflow Detroit you'll ever hear---I was amazed at that!) and they are
a real joy to work on and maintain. (tho rather dirty like all diesels) This
beauty was only made a year or so, ditto on the 2-51 which may have only been
made a month or 2! The prefect diesel and we didn't have the sense to realize
it!

Anyway, hope this helps a little. My 4-51 is a sweetie, and she LOVES to
run---and run and run, full load, wide open, and making that amazing music only
a high speed valveless 2 stroke can! Rick C-6.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/6825 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] Manuals and Winter starting woes. Page 1 of 1

Block heaters help, but on a detroit they just waste electricity unless it
gets WAY below zero and/or the engine is worn quite a bit. Remember--Detroits
run low compression for a diesel---16:1 (typically the same as a spark-ignition
top fuel dragster engine actually) for the valve uniflow 53, 71 and 92, etc
series, and slightly higher 18:1 for the valveless 51 series. Therefore cold
starting with ether os something that was designed right into a Detroit. some
high compression 4 strokes will immediately knock and even lock on ether even
when spinning over fast. A Detroit just simply starts up, no knocks no problem.
Even if ya hear a little rattling and knockiong don't fret as it's slight and
will not harm the engine and it'll be fine. Also, using the above method saves
starters and batteries, saves fuel, saves the engine from possible oil dilution
and saves electricity and the fire hazard of using charcoal ot other heat
sources and the wasted time doing it. What takes between 3
minures to 5 hours will take like 15-45 seconds this way! after all the years
I've been around these engines, I've never damaged one using this method and it
nearly always works as long as the batteries are strong. A battery heater is a
good idea, not a block heater on a Detroit. Rick C-6.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/6438 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] 4-51 Detroit Diesel on Ebay Page 1 of 1

This is SO cool! Just like mine except mine has the small air cleaner mounted
directly on the blower, and doesn't have the rear cowl for a hood, only the
front one on the radiator because the guy made his own base for it. Whoever buys
it will have to free up the injectors like I did on mine. I know what to do now,
so if any of ya buy her, i can guide ya thru the injector restoration process.
Seems fuel gums up in these and sticks the injectors like gum in a carb plugs
the jets. With a good cleaning there's no doubt this baby will purr just like
mine and you can hear the best running diesel ever built! These even make the
uniflow Detroits seem a bit lame. Terriffic engine! I'm taken aback one is on
ebay tho! Rick C-6!

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5754 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] 4-51 Detroit Diesel on Ebay Page 1 of 1

DETROIT DIESEL 4-51 COMPLETE POWER UNIT

Only made 3 years 1951-1953. Complete with
PTO Clutch.

Starting bid: US $1,000.00

Time left: 6 days 19 hours

7-day listing, Ends Oct-14-05 14:22:04 PDT

Start time: Oct-07-05 14:22:04 PDT

History: 0 bids

Item location: Memphis, TN

United States

Ships to: United States

Seller information
1gwdiesel ( 1 )

Feedback Score: 1
Positive Feedback: 100%

Description

Cleaning out the classics from the G&W Diesel

warehouse!

This auction is for a SUPER CLEAN, COMPLETE power

unit. This is a four cylinder, Series 51 engine. This is
the predecessor to the venerable 53 series. This engine
was only made between 1951 and 1953. The serial
number indicates this is about a 1952 model.

The Series 51 engine HAS NO VALVES. It is a TRUE 2

CYCLE. It only has ports in the liners for the intake and
exhaust. The engine is appx. 55 horsepower. The rated
speed on this engine is 2,250 RPM. The maximum RPM
for the 51 Series engine is 3,000.

Power Unit comes complete with radiator, gauges,

stop/run controls, oil bath air cleaner, muffler/flapper,
frame rails and a General Motors (Rockford) 10"
P.T.O. clutch.

Included in this auction is a vintage, General Motors

Diesel, Series 51, Operator's Manual, dated Jan.
1953.

This engine was in running condition before storage

in our warehouse about 15 years ago. The engine
runs on WD-40, but will not keep running on Diesel.
The injectors must be stuck after sitting for all these
years. On WD-40 the engine runs smooth and has
good oil pressure.

With a little TLC, this would make a great conversation

piece for your Flywheelers Antique Equipment Club, or
a classic power to run that small saw mill, grist mill,
sorghum mill or duck pond pump.

Bid to own, no reserve.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5754 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] 4-51 Detroit Diesel on Ebay Page 1 of 1

Email your zip code to get a shipping quote. This unit

weighs about 2,000 lbs. Shipping will be added to the
total, checkout price, or we can ship freight COD
using your choice of shippers.

For over 48 years:

G&W Diesel Services

892 Kansas St.

Memphis, TN 38106

1-800-458-8748

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5754 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] HELP! 4-51 INJECTORS NEEDED, A... Page 1 of 1

Mart--alot! First, the body is a different design and shape, second, the spray
pattern is a wide, almost flat "umbrella" pattern because the combustion chamber
in the loop scavenged valveless 51's is in the head, not the piston. Also, the
racks are really rotary disc valves with arms on the discs. A flat bar runs
alongside the injectirs and attaches to each arm sticking out the side. The
conrol bar moves forward and back. In doing so, it merely swings the protruding
arms on the disc valves fore and aft, There is no rack sontrol tube that turns
with doenward protruding arms that have balls on the end that mesh with the "U"
shaped yokes on the ends of the racks, the rotary motion of the tube moving the
control arms and oushing and pulling the racks straight in and out. So the
comtrol machanism is completely different. To set the racks on a 53, 71, or 92,
you loosen ste rack arm set screw or clamp, and turn the adlusting screws to
move the rack in or out till all are set the same--at
the extreme end of the travel, so all move in exact unison. In the 51, you
leave the injector clamps loose (with the lines attached) and put a big ol'
crescent type wrench on the flats of the injectir body, and with the control bar
at the extreme end of it's travel (usually shut down, but also full throttle
will do it too), you turn the entire injectir till the control valve arm
ciontacts the end of it's slot. Then tighten the clamp, repeat with the othere
till all are at the end of the slot. same idea, different way to do it.

Another majir difference here is the connections to the injectfeed and return
lines. On regular DD injectors the connections are usually on one side of the
plunger and stich straight up. On the 4-51, the connectors are on the sides of
the body, directly opposite each ther, at about a 30 degree upward angle. So
even the lines are way different. The rocker shaft is sectional, with a seperate
short section for each rocker (remember--no valves, only 1 rocker to a cylinder)
connected together by short hoses for carrying the oil. A novel yet simple
design! Rick C-6.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5243 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] 51 Series Page 1 of 1

I have a magazinf ad from 1953 showing a 4-51 on an irrigation pump. As used, it

was making 85 HP, well below what it can make. The valveless Detroit has
virtually no upper HP limit, per-se. 125HP is about right, and it will make 200
or more if set up right and run at high revs. The valveless design is known for
high efficiency and large HP and RPM capabilities---no ither engine can breathe
as freely as a valveless loop scavenged, or opposed piston uniflow scavenged 2
stroke diesel. The valve uniflow design was clever on Detroits, but it was
horribly restrictive and limited HP ratings terribly. Even the 'N' series 4
valve head Detroits can't even come close to the performance potential of a
valveless 51. And a 2 valve per pot 4 stroke is just plain a JOKE! Even the 4
valve 4 strokes (2 intake 2 exhaust) are horribly inefficient and make no HP at
all unless they have a turbo or blower shoving the air in, but still, the
exhaust still has trouble getting out. The 51 series were noted
for especially clean combustion with a totally smokeless exhaust because ALL
the burned gases were thoroughly blown out, and the engine always had an excess
of combustion air. Throw a restrictive long exhaust pipe or worse yet a car
muffler on, and the 51 becomes a dog, smoking and making little usable power.
Straight pipe it or use a straight thru muffler and a short pipe, abd she makes
bookoo HP and responds instantly The stock exhaust manifold was the main design
goof up on these fine engines. It did have a large passage size, but it was a
"log" tyoe manifold, and this still restricted the exhaust flow a bit, but
usually not enough to be a problem if the right exhaust was used. If a clever
person created a pair of steel headers, with 2 cylinders each to a 3" pipe, for
dual exhaust on the 4-51, the HP would go well higher---I mean it'd increase
quite a bit more over stock! Besides, a set of headers would look and sound
amazing on a 4-51! Rick C-6. 0one seperate open dragster style
pipe per cylinder would be SO rad!)

mart4@... wrote:I saw an magazine ad, dating from the early 1950's, for
sale on e-bay
recently, for Detroit Diesel 4-51 marine engines. D.D. was pushing them at
the time, as main powerplants for small to medium sized (30 to 45 ft)
pleasureboats and yachts and to drive marine gensets on bigger boats. The
"marine powerplant" version was rated at about 125 hp, I think. I didn't
bid on the ad or even save the pic from ebay. Arrgh! : (.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/4957 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] 51 Series Page 1 of 1

Re: [Detroit Diesel] 51 Series

Yup. It works on the simple 2 stroke principle just like a gasoline 2 stroke. In
fact the port arrangement is identical to a gas 2 stroker.

First: the piston has just covered the ports. The cylinder is full of fresh
clean air. It rises amnd compression begins, and the air is compressed to 1:18th
of it's original volume, or 18:1 compression ratio. This heats the air to around
1,000-1500 degrees, in typical doesel fashion, and near the top of the
compression stroke, the fuel is injected, and it ignites. Then the power stroke
commences as the piston starts downward. The hot expanding gases push the piston
down on the power stroke like in any diesel or gas engine.

NOW: the exhaust ports are taller than the intakes which ar directly on the
opposite sides of the cylinder. The air passage to the intake ports (airboxes)
are specially angles sharply upwards for a reason I'll explain in a second.

Since the exhaust ports are taller, as th piston goes down and nears the
completion of the power stroke, it uncovers the exhaust ports first, and the
hot, pressurized burnt gases begin to escape, causing "blowdown" where the
pressure in the cylinder drops to that of the atmospher surrounding the engine,
and the vast majority of the burnt gases escape to the air via the manifold and
pipes, etc. This is what makes the actual exhaust sound, the instant the exhaust
ports open. The piston continues downward towards bottom dead center (BDC), and
shortkly after the exhaust ports open and blowdown occurs, the intakes on the
opposite side of the cylinder begin to open, and air under pressure from the
blower begins to enter the cylinder. Here's where the special angle of the
airbox in the 51 comes in. The angle directs the air nearly straight up the f
dide of the cylinder to the head, where it hits the head anmd bounces off,
'looping" down the opposite side towards the exhaust ports, pushing
remaining burned gases out ahead of it. as the piston gets to TDC and fully
uncovers the intake ports, not inly does it loop up to the head and back down,
but it also goes straight across, thoroughly removing all the burned gases in
the process, blowing them out the exhaust. The same thing happens in a gas 2
stroke, except g for 2 things. First in the diesel, pure air is used to scavemge
out the burned gases. In the gasoline engine a fuel-air mixture scavenges the
cylinders. And second, in the diesel, a blower supplies the necessary
pressurized air. In the gasoline engine, the crankcase is used as a pump instead
of a blower. Otherwise it's identical in both.

After the cylinder "scavenges" and is filled with clean fresh air, the piston
rises again, and the intake ports close first, then the exhaust ports,
compression begins, and the 2 strokes repeat over and over, so it's compression,
power/scavenging. The 2 strokes. Hence the term 2 stroke diesel. The principal
sounds complex, but it's as simple as possible--no engine is simpler than a
valveless loop scavenged diesel or gas engine. And in spite f what the engineers
think, they are VERY efficient AS LONG as the exhaust is free and unrestricted.
Back pressure will make a 51 run real bad because it won;t allow free scavenging
of the burned gases. On the other extreme, a gasoline 2 stroke nEEDS back
pressure to a certain extent to prevent the fuel/air mixture from excessively
being wasted out the exhaust, causng power loss, "4 stroking" or "stuttering".
anmd high fuel consumption, so a properly tuned exhaust is essential on the gas
engine. on the diesel, only air is lost, and the cylinder
still fills to the proper volume, so an open exhaust is best for peak power and
efficiency on a 4-51 or 2-51.

I have bith a service manual AND an operators' manual for my 4-51. Like the
engine, the book is EXTREMELY RARE. The service manul has many pages, but i may
be able to copy t, if you want to pay for the copies and shipping. It'll be ALOT nc.
of loose pages tho! LOL. I will not lend it our nor sell it. too risky and too
rare. Do you have a 51? Rick C-6! o rI
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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/4939 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] Junkman Page 1 of 1

The 51 only has ONE rocker arm per cylinder instead of 3. The other 2 outer ones
in "normal" Detroits operate either the 2 or 4 exhaust valves. The center
operates the injector. In the 51 there are only the center ones for the
injectors, as this engine has NO valves at all. It's a simple (and efficient to
beat the band too!) "loop" scavenged 2 stroke pretty much identical to a
chainsaw or snowmobile or outboard motor engine in basic design and principle.
Only differences are it uses compression ignitioon and fuel injected directly
into the cylinders in ordinary diesel fashion, and uses the typical detroit
blower to scavenge the cylinders as opposed to crankcase compression in the
gasoline equivalents. Basically a giant chainsaw engine with no spark plugs. The
head is different in many ways from a typical Detroit. The injectors are
different, witu little toggle type levers protruding out the sides that are
actuated by a square solid rod with pins that engage holes in the ends of the
"toggle arms" on the injectors and arew retained by simple spring clips
attached directly to the square rod if I remember correctly. The rod slides back
and forth longitudinally with the length of the head, and rides in lieelt
machined "saddles" cast into the head. The governor is at the back of the head,
on the blower side and is a simple vacuum diaphragm type operated off vacuum in
the intake side of the blower and regulated by a butterfly valve and venturi in
the blower. Increased vacuum closes the injector throttles till equilibrium is
reached. less vacuum opens the throttle till again equlibrium is reached. When
yu operate the throttle, it has NO mechanical connection with the "racks" at all
in a 51. You merely open and close the butterfly in the intake to vary the
vacuum and the governor spring controls the rack over the diaphragm. Simple as
can be and works great. A seperate lever in the head mechanically throws the
"rack" to no fuel position independent of the vacuum
throttle lever to shut it down.

The combustion chambers are in the head, so therefore not the "open" type of
chambers used in valve uniflow DD's, and the head has recessions for the
chambers and not flat like the deck type head of a uniflow DD with valves. The
injector sprays in an inverted pattern UP into the chamber in the head, instead
of down in a narrow cone into the swirl design of the uniflow DD's open chambers
in the piston crowns. Therefore the combustion takes place in the HEAD after
initiation of injection in a 51, and in the PISTON in all other DD models. The
head also uses external fuel manifolds and these are NOT cast as part of the
head. And the water pump is bolted to the head too like on an old 2 stroke SAAB
I think. Rick C-6.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/7833 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: 4-51 water still in it---UPDATE Page 1 of 1

OK, I was in tears last night thinking of my 4-51 sitting n that museum and
freezing solid this winter breaking into shards. i expressed my large concerns
to my best friend in the club, Ed Gifford, and he said he'll gladly drain it and
put anti freeze in next week for me. We can't start it, but anti freeze should
do it. I got pretty emotional, and he said we're def making an appointment to
get that done as I cannot reach it with my chair at all, he saw where it is.
He'll be able to do it easily tho. What a load off my chest. I also almost had a
sound clip but they put it away before I could record it. I bought a tape
recorder but returned it yeaterday, no sense in keeping it, because it'll sit
till next year--I'll deal with getting a clip then. I need that money now at
least until i get disability hopefully soon or I'll starve to death here (aother
story entirely, and I won't go into details here)! LOLOLOL! Anyway, looks like
problem solved. Rick C-6.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5448 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] IT LIVES!!!! YAY!!!! THE 4-51 IS M... Page 1 of 2

Hi, all! The beast has awoken from it's long

slumber, and it took alot of work to awaken it! I
got it all done except the idler pulley from an
anti-tipper because this will not fit between the
fuel pump and fan. So, i removed the belt
totally--who needs a radiator anyway to fire an
engine up I said! LOL! The water pump is also
obviously disabled. But with a block full of water,
you can run an engine with no load at least 20
minutes safely.

I cranked and cranked and cranked, till I started

seeing smoke, and used some ether, got a few firings
and it even kicked back, but my battery kept dying
fast. Eventually we junped the battery off my truck,
and the first try it darn near started. I then let
it sit a few minutes and drained more old junk out
of the secondary stage filter. I pumped up the
primer bulb in the outboard motor fuel line, and my
bud at the fair said try er again. I touched those 2
wires servng as my "starter button" together,, she
cranked, then started cranking wicked fast. I
stopped, and let it sit a few seconds and touchd the
wires again, she spun over really fast assisted by
firings, and came to life, showering us all with
czrbon particles! I only revved it slightly at
first, then gradually brought up the RPM. Bear in
mind the water pump and fan were not working at all.
The restrictive fitting in the return manifold was
missing, so I used a 1/4" ball valve, and during
start up had it closed completelly to
force some fuel under high pressure into the
injectors--a smart thing to do. it helped get things
working. After a few seconds i realized the throttle
was lightly sluggish and it was smoking heavily, and
I realized it had too much fuel pressure because the
return "restrictor" valve was closed! LOL! I opened
it, and she started picking up RPM immediately and
the sluggishness went away! like a carb being too
rich--same in a diesel.

I'll have to fine tune my homemade "restrictor

valve" when i get the fan belt on and can run it
continuously, till the exhaust becomes clean and
clear. Also, the 4-51 can run on straight kerosene
just fine. says so in the manual. Right now, i have
year old (actualy alot older) home heating oil in it
from last year taken from the 2-71 tank. It's black
and heavy,, so this prolly was whet made it so darn
hard to get started, as well as he fuel prime,
injectors needing to get working again, and likely
partially stuck rings lowering compression. I'll
just mox xome fresh diesel and kero into this fuel
oil, and use it all up. Then maybe run it on a mix
of 90% kero, and 10% diesel, with marvel oil it it
for storage. Amybe even run it on near straight
marvel oil to protect the injectors. I'll add diesel
fuel conditioner to the fuel tomorrow as well. And nc.
marvel.
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One word--TERRIFFIC!!!!!!!!! And that's beyond all
belief! Basically, if you close your eyes, you hear
a 318 8V71N in this engine 100%! It sounds e
in
practically exactly like a 318 V-8 'troiter! It does ar
NOT sound like any other 4 banger Detroit except for M
a passing resemblance. Honestly, no offense to you n
4-53 fans, but I never liked the sound of this
d so
oo
venerable 'Troiter. These are "tinny" sounding like
a dirt bike 2 stroke motor, and no matter what
exhaust they have they sound kinda harsh. The 4-71
G
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sounds much throatier and better but still a bit
harsh especially at high revs. But this-----the 4-51 L ar
sounds perfect! If ever there was a perfect diesel

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5345 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] IT LIVES!!!! YAY!!!! THE 4-51 IS M... Page 2 of 2

exhaust note this is it. Bear in mine this has no

muffler--just a 2 foot straight pipe with a rain
flapper. BUT--to me surprise and amazement, it was
NOT the loud, nasty screaming beast I thought it'd
be. To the contrary--its ultra mellow, quiet, and
low pitched. At idle it has a throaty growl that
surpasses a 318 'Troiter and for sure any
4-53. It revs smoothly thru the full range, that
vacuum governor a wonder of smooth response, and
absolute precision operation. The note gets lightly
higher pitched, but even at about 4,000-4500 RPM
(which I had it to for like 2 minutes straight to
blow carbon out) it's mellow, soft, quiet, and most
pleasing. I will venture to say that even under full
load, this will be well in the tolerable volume
range! The full sound spectrum is perfect from idle
to full revs and even at slght overspeed. no fear of
overspeeding--this engine handles it so easily it's
uncanny! This is wothout a doubt the most musical
'Troit ever built, period! The uniflows sound great,
but will sound like they have problems if run next
to a 4-51. Even my fave--the 12V71, has been pushed
just below the 4-51 on my scale of favorite detroit
sounds! This is some SWEET stack music---this even
sounds better than a classic American V-8 or a 426
HEMI! MUCH better! The fact it's quiet amazed me,
but than again I'm not
surprised by a Detroit doing the opposite of what
you'd expect in terms of raw sound volume! A muffler
is redundant and unnecesary on this engine.

As for performance----this is one FINE engine all

the way! I can't believe this was a "cheapie" model
from Detroit! They have banlanced this engine so
carefully, it'll easily make a Rolls-Royce silver
shadow engine seem rough. And this is no joke--it's
literally! I had removed a brass plug from the
blower to spray a little ether in to help get the
fire atarted and make her knock some to free the
rings. This plug was in a precarious position on the
bell housing, and it never even moved! from idle to
full revs, this engine runs smoother than an
electric motor! It's perfectly balanced and just a
mechanical wonder to behold.

This engine, if it was ever made in 6, 8, and 12

cylinder versions for trucks would literally make
today's 4 strokes seem archaic in comparison. I
didn't know a diesel was capable of this kind of
smoothness till today! This is engineering at it's
best, and a fine peice of machinery that the folks
at Rolls-Royce and Mercedes-Benz would go crazy
about and admire to the fullest! What a beautiful
piece of engineering this little valveless detroit
is! She loves to sing me tunes when I play t wioth
that throttl lever too------2-stroke music! All with
no valves! What was that about 4 srokes being
better? In what way? LOL! Rick C-6--excited beyond
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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5345 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: OK GOT THE INJECTORS WORKING, NOW ONE MIN... Page 1 of 1

OK, I'm ready to reinstall the injectors in the 4-51 and make some serious
noise. But, there's one issue I want opinions on.

The noses of the injectors had rusted a little, one injector out of 4 rusted all
round the nose, and is pitted a little after clean up. I cleaned them off with a
brass wire brich, and they look decent except for the pitting. Before I drop em
back into the coppers, should I coat the noses with something to seal em and
compensate for this slight pitting? I honsetly don't think it'll cause enough
leakage if any to cause problems. My pop said there was a guy in the military
who was a Detroit whiz, and this guy and 2 others could literally completely
rebuild a 6-71 in an hour and a half! He said to my pop sometimes the injector
noses get rusty when sitting on the bench, he just brass brushed em like I did,
put some grease on tm, and dropped em in, and away she went. I agree with this.
Just slather some grease on and they should seal plenty fine. When the grease
cooks a bit, it'll form a dandy sealing compound.

What do ya think? It;s a cinch I have to use em in spite of slight puitting from
rust, and I think trying to lap a fresh surface is too risky. I guess I can pick
up some crocus cloth and use it with oil and clean the pits up a bit especially
on the one worst one. But I still say, crocus or not, if they're greased,
they'll seal just fine in the coppers, especially since the soft copper will
mold itself to the pitted areas. What'cha think? I think it's a Detropit and it
won't care about slightly pitted injector noses myself! If this was a Come-Apart
you'd have to friggin' polish the new injectors or the POS won't run at
all---but this isn't a lousy no-go 4-joke Cummins Come-Apart. It's a rugged
bulletproof pour sand in the cylinders while reassembling and get grit in the
bearings by dropping them in the dirt doesn't care about stuff like that
Detroit! So I think I'm homefree here. I misplaced my damn book too, so I'll
have to go it by memory. Watch the friggin' book turn up a month
after I get this animal belching flames out of the stack and pleasing crowds!
LOLOLOL! Rick C-6! (feeling pretty good about how I saved those injectors!)

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/5242 6/11/2007
DetroitDiesel : Message: Re: [Detroit Diesel] Re: cubic inch to cc, litres,, XXXX cc to... Page 1 of 1

Ivan I agree! Like the 4-51---people rail me about the DD with no valves that
had no power at all. Really? So 85 HP is no power? I'd like to see a modern 4
stroke with no turbo with this displacement make what this does, and do it
reliably! Ain't gonna happen! And that SOUND! Man! Here's an engine that's been
around since the early 1950's and is still excellent mechanically, and after I
reinstall the injectors, ready for years of trouble free service! And these
little valveless 2 strokes were known for a totally clear and clean exhaust--no
smoke at all. What more could you want from a diesel? And no valves to play with
or give trouble to boot---the 4-51 was an ingenius design that deserves the
highest honor like any DD. Rick C-6.

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http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/message/4914 6/11/2007