20ITHAR 17 PM 3: 17 In The Matter Of: he TS Robert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs. City of Lancaster Ohio, et al. IN COMPUTER Michael Fracassa Vol. I January 31, 2017 Thornsberry Reporting 829 Bethel Road, Suite 129 Columbus, Ohio 43214 www. ThornsberryReporting.com 614.519.2844‘Robert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs, Michael Fracassa~ Vol. City of Laneaster Ohio, eta He January 31,2017 Faget | 7 Fae | : ea oe eee Ja ‘Tuesday Afternoon Session | ie cedars cantina 2 January 31,2017 3 cau 3 3:24 pam. 4 MONT BaP Boots 4 ae 7 5 STIPULATIONS s mame, : © __ Itis stipulated by and emong counsel 7 Pease wo, ss-ev-ase | > forthe respective parties thatthe deposition of © Garpor umcartan, onze, smo oaviD A. TEDONN | g MICHAEL FRACASSA, a Defendant herein, caled bythe 2 ae : Plaintiff under the applicable Ohio Rules of Civil 30 10 Procedure, may be taken at this time in stenotype by a2 7 21 the Notary; that said deposition may thereafter be a2 pepoattton of 432 ‘ransoribed by the Notary out of the presence of the a3 srzcanat, reacaasa 33 witness; that proof of the official character and a 14 qualification of the Notary is waived; thatthe witness a5 25 may sign the transcript of bis deposition before @ a6 akan at ee 36 Notary other than the Notary taking his deposition; ho unioige? court 47 said deposition to have tive same force and effect as he aE 48 though signed before the Notary taking i a9 39 os 20 fos twandey, Sanuary 24, 2627, et 3926 pom, [20 22 23 122 22 | 23 aported by: Pinna b. ohed, court Reporter. [22 " ae 24 3 25 Page? Pane « a 1 wo oF muKtOTION 12 my 2 ae 3 tie 3 wrcmnat Paacaasa nase 4 PiSateyalchatentiev.com 44 ca0gs-EAAKEKATION BY XB. MTCHALEKE 5 5 on abel of the F 5 ae ‘ ‘ wor To ExHIBITS 7 eigigh: Bees i 7 maneer'e Paar a Sehaaeee? 28 © 3 = comieint . 9 SHakstotteheiness com 9 3 - Grid and script Fo a0 (on benelt of he Detendanca. 20> meng gag 1/2076 tom me ote » 21 naymart, 3, guuem, megurAE a2 ai PEE 22 a = aguany,datgy 138/26 city cours, » ta Heetnan 2 See ceeeeeneraae u | as ‘op benalt of ee Defendant, city a5 : fe oF RRRLese a 2 sso renews v 8 wm. rover mrncxs a 19 ms. ona peer a9 20 20 21 ee 22 za 2 23 23 2 24 5 25 ‘Thornsberry Reporting . 614.819.2844 (1) Pages 1-4 ‘wow. ThornsberryReporting.com‘Robert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs. City of Lancaster Oto, et al. Page 5 | Michael Fracassa January Vou 2017 Pape 2 PROCEEDINGS 2 not laws, but just I'm going to be asking you a series 2 ao 2 of questions, You'e going to be responding to them. 3 MICHAEL FRACASSA aA Ub-huh, 4 being by me frst duly sworn, a hereinafter certified, | 4 Q_ And Ineed to have you answer verbally. 5 deposes and says as follows: 5s A Okay. ‘ CROSS-EXAMINATION 5 _Q_Youcantt havea shake of the head or shrugs 7 BY MR. MICHALSKI: 7 of the shoulders. Its best not to use uh-huh oF + Q. Forthe record would you please stale your __| huh-u because the court reporter needs to take it $name and would you spell the last name for the court | 5 down. 10 reporter. 30 A Right, Understandable. at A. Michael Fracassa, which is F-R-A-C-A-S-S-A. |11 Q_ And if Lask you a question, Tl just let 2 Q Andwhat’s your residence address? 42 you know if you don't understand it for whatever reson aA ae 33. because it's garbled or too complicated to understand, 14 Q__Anddo you prefer toca [4 just ask me to repeat it and Ill do that. But ifyou [us Mr, Fracassa or Mike? 15 have answered the question, 'm going to presume you 15 A Mikes fine. 116. understood what I asked you | 17 Q. Mike, [just want to get alitle background 37 A Okay, 18 information from you first ofall ae Q_ Fairenough? 48 Could you tell me a litle bit about your as A Yes, 20 educational background. 20 Q. AndifZask you a question and you want to 22 A_ Thavea bachelor’s degree in history, 21. talk to Mr. Fishel before at all, you have to answer (3) potic! science ani econoes fom indiana Wesleyan, [22 the question that's pending first before you havea 25. anda master's ~ or an MBA, a master’s, in business 23, conference. Okay? 124. administration also from Indians Wesleyan. za A Okay, 2s Q. And you had the BA and what was the other 25 Q_ Allright. You'e presently on city Pages Pages 1 one? 2 council 2A Thavean MBA, 2A Yes 3 Q MBA? 3 Q = forthe City of Lancaster, Ohio? «A. Ub-huh. 4 How many terms have you served? SQ Andwhat's your current employment? | $A. I'min the middle of my second term. & A. I'mthe vice president of operations at Ohio | 6 Q_ And what's your ward? | (7 Christian University. 7 A Second ward. | 8 —Q And how long have you been there? © Q_ Tmhanding to you what's been marked 2s 8 A. I've boen there currently for three years. Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1 and ask you, you've seen this 10 Q And where were you before that? 20 before, have you not? 21 _ A. Iwasatthe Ohio Treasurer of State's office [a2 A Yes. 22 for three years, and then before that st Ohio Christian /22 _ Q_ You got served with a copy of this when it 32. University for five years, In two weeks I'm going back 23 fist got filed? 14 to the Oio Treasurer of State's office. ae A. Yes. 25 MR. MICHALSKI: Off the record 35 Q_ Can you tell me, did you participate in any 3s __ Discussion held off the record.) 26 way in preparing the answers to the complaint? 37 BY MR. MICHALSKI: 17 A_ No, Other than, [ mean, consultation with 3 Q. Have you everhad your deposition taken [18 Randall Ullom. 9 before? 19 Q- Before the answer got filed? lo A No, dont think so. 20 A. Tithinieso, {think he did consult us on the 22 Q_ [think you would remember but ~ 21 answer, yes. | 32 A. Yeah, We had it wasn't quite adeposition 22, Q_Tildirect your attention to Exhibit Ato | 23. level at Ohio Christian University for an 23. the complaint. Are you familiar with that document? be. investigation. uA. Yes | Gs Q. ‘There are some rules, basic rules. They're [25 Q_ Ill represent forthe record that this isa | ah ‘Thorasberry Reporting .. 614.519.2844 (2) Pages $8 ‘www. ThorasberryReporting.comRobert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs. Michael Fracassa- Vol. City of Lancaster Ohl, et al. Hou January 31, 2017 aa Pogo zi Page 17 1 copy of Section 111.06 of the Lancaster city ordinanees | 2 Drive Tim Hortons, 2 that were in effect atthe time that you were elected | 2 Q And who was present at that meeting? 43 {0 your most recent term, which was in place until t | 3 A Myself and Mr. Hedges. | ‘4 was repealed and revised earlier --orlast year: is | 4 — Q__Anddid you receive anything from Mr. Hedges 5 that correct? 5 at that meeting? 6 A Yes © A He showed us-- He showed me the planned + Q Now, that particular ordinance indicates that) 7 committee structure. 1 don't remember keeping it oF if 8 the president of city council shall appoint the 8 he had just had one that he kept but he showed me that | 5 standing committee members and the chairs of the | 9 document. 0 committees? 30 Q_ And what was your diseussion with him about 11 A That is what it says. a2 that document? 12 Q. And does it say in there anywhere that there [22 A That I was disappointed not to be on the 13 needs to be advice and consent of city council for 23 economic development ~ not to be the chair of the 114. those appointments to be effective? 34 economic development committee as A. It doesn't say that here. 35 Q_ Isthata position that you had before? ¢ Q_ Where does it say i? is A Yes. s7 A. Well, Tmean its always the understanding |37- Q__But you were still on the economic se just as Mr. Hedges himself voted against the previous |28 development committee? 19 council president's appointments that council has the |29 A That's correct. 20 opportunity to either approve or reject the 20 Q You told me you were just disappointed in 121. appointments of the eouncil president. 21 that, You weren't upset that you weren' appointed? 22 Q. And inthis particular situation there was a 22. A_‘Twas disappointed. I didn't feel that was ‘23. rejection of the appointments? 23. right. 24 A Thats correct. 24 Q_ Did he have a response to your comments about ‘25 Q_ After your election to the second term since 25. that? Page 10 Page 2 you had already served on committees you are fairly | 2 A He wanted to shake things up, 2. familiar with the appointment process? 2 Q Anything else about thelist that Bob | aA. Ubsbuh 3. presented to you that had you had any concerns or 4 Q_ Also the structure of the committees? 4 questions about? s A Yes. 3A. Well, [mean there were others that I knew & Q Andafter the election for the 2015-16 6 that they would be disappointed in losing their 7 tenn = + chairmanships such as Councilwoman Bentle being taken e MR. FISHEL: Now 2016-17 term. 8 offof the safety committee where she has a lot of 8 MR. MICHALSKI: 2016-17, I'm sorry. 9 experience from. And that one stuck out to me because ao A Correct. Jao Tjust felt like she had that. And I knew that hz Q_ -=2016-17 term did you have any discussions |11 Councilwoman Bobbitt would also be upset for being off 112. with Mr, Hedges about his sppointments to the a2. public works, 35 committees? 33 Q_ She would not be? ue A Yes. u¢ A Yeah, she would not be the chairman, And 1s Q_ And when did that occur? 25. that's the same as Councilwoman Beale not being the as A. Ithappened before the end of 2015. Sometime |26 chairwoman of safety. x7. in December before Christmas. 17 Q_ Anything else about the lst chat stuck out 18 Q_ And how did that meeting come about? 18 10 you? ng A. Mr. Hedges set up the meeting with us, with ‘A No. Tmean just ~ there's just that, the ‘20 me and the other council members as well. ‘chairmanships in general of those committees. ‘21, Q_ And where did that occur? Q Ofthose to? 32 A_Let'ssee, Tim Hortons, We bad two A. Of those two but plus the others. 23, meetings. ‘Tom was kept on finance because he felt that 24 Q_ At Tim Hortons where? ‘was the one that could do that, bu otherwise everyone 25 A. Tim Hortons on Memorial Drive. Memorial |25_ lost their chairs - their chairmanships. ‘Thornsberry Reportin 614.519.2864 3) Pages 9-12 ‘www. ThornsberryReporting.comRobert Hedges, Ind and as Clty Council President vs. Michael Fracassa~ Vol. 1 Cty of Lancaster Oto, etal. 7 January 31,2017 ( Seca Poae | = Page 78] 2 Q Andyou thought that wasn't the right thing | 1 committee chair. 2 todo? 2 He had not served on council before 30 1 2A Thats correct 4 think he had certain committees that he wanted to serve 4 Q Did you express that co him? 4400, which I dont totally remember what those were at 5 MR. FISHEL: You have to say yes or no. 5 this point, but I think ke understood my disappointment 6A Yes, ‘in my conversation for net being the chair of economic 7 MR. FISHEL: Thank you. 7 development @ BY MR. MICHALSKI @ — Q Any discussion with him about what might be | 5 Q Did Bob educate you that he might reconsider | 9 done to get the list changed? 0. thelist that he gave you of the committee chairs? 10 -A_ No. aa A Not that I recall. 31 Q_ And the conversation that you had with 42 Q_ Soafter you had that meeting with Bob did _|22 Ms. Bentle is that just one conversation? 23. you talk to anybody else about the appointments, any of |23. A I'mnot sure if i's one or two. 116. the other council people? 24 Q And that was done over the phone? as A Yes, Italked to some other council members ]35 A Yes. 16. individually. 36 _Q_ How about Ms, Bobbitt? Excuse me 17 Q_ Who might have you spoken to? 37, Mr, Stoughton, I'm sory. 8 A Let's see, [talked with Councilwoman a8 A. Thad one phone conversation with him, 149 Bentle, Talked with Councilman Stoughton. Iiaiked |29 QA phone call? 20 with Councilman Uhl. I.can't remember if talked to 20 A Yes. ‘2a. others, I know thet I talked with those three. a1 Q_ And how about Mr, Uhl? 22 Q And 22, A. Tonly remember one call with him. 23 MR. FISHEL: I'm sorry. Who was the third |23 Q_ And prior tothe January 11th, 2016 meeting 24 one? I missed that 24. were you aware of the development of any other list of 25 ‘THE WITNESS: Councilman Ub 25 members and chairs being made? Page 18 Page 16 2 BY MR, MICHALSKI: 1A No, Twas not. 2 Q What were Ms. Bentle’s feelings aboutthe | 2 Q_ T'llhand you what's been marked as, 3. appointments? 3 Plaintiffs Exhibit 3 4 A_ From my recollection she was also 4A Okay, 5. disappointed to lose the chairmanship of safety, and1 | $ Q Have you ever seen this or anything similar? 65 think she appreciated my disappointment in not being | ¢ A The first time I saw this is a meeting with 7 the chairman of economic development. 7 my counsel and with Da ® —Q_ Didyou discuss what you might be able to do | 8 MR. FISHEL: That's okay, Whatever you 3 about holding onto those chairs? 10 A No 31 Q_ So what discassions did you have with 32 Mr. Stoughton? 13 A. Avery similar discussion, mean, I let him 14 know was disappointed that I was not the chair of the 415 ecortmic development committee and that other people 46 had lost their chairmanships. And he also expressed 417 disappointed on the way things were handled with the 18 chairmanships. 19 Q_ Was there any discussion about what you might 20 be able to do about that? nA. None. 22 Q_ How about Mr. UbI? 23 A He-came from alittle bit different remember. A. twas whenever we met like last week I think, right? Or last week or whatever I met with him thats the fist time that I ad seen that exhibit. Q_ Did you see anything similar to this before the meeting on the 11th? ‘A. No,I did not, Q__ Did you see this similar type of grid before meeting on the 25th? ‘A No,Idid not. There was the No. I would say no, [did not, ‘Q Do you know who prepared this document? A No Q_ I'm going to represent to you that this grid ‘matches the appointments which were approved at city ‘24 perspective. I mean, I think he understood my 24 council on January 25th, 2016, 25. disappointment from not being the economic development 25 A Okay. ‘Thornsberry Reporting ... 614.519.2844 (4) Pages 13 -16 ‘www. ThornsberryReporting.com‘Robert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs, ‘Michael Fracassa- Vol. Cy of Lancaster Obio, etal. - January 31, 2017 - a Page 7] Page 19 4 Q Doyouhave any reason tonot believe that | 1A. [think Idid. [think that's mostly what I 2 or-- you can double check it if you would like. 2 proposed because I think that seemed to be the big 2A. That is my name as ~ It seems to line up. 3 concern. 4 Q_ As faras making these appointments as, ‘ ‘And then [think if you look at my list Dave '5-memberships and as chairs do you know how this actually | 5 is where Bob was because Dave was a replacement for | & was compiled, Exhibit C, which was the list of actual | ¢ Bob. Soll think that's what my state did, 7. appointments, who compiled that? 7 Q And after you had your meeting with Bob you 8 A No,Idonot 8 said that you had spoken with Ms. Bentle and she was 19 Q. Were you aware of what that list was before | » disappointed about not being chair? 10 you walked into the meeting on January 25th, 2016? |29 A Uh-huh. 21 A No, Iwas not aware of it. 12 Q__Buteven though she was not a chair of the 22 Q_Nodne had any discussion with you prior to |22 committe that she wanted to be on, she was a member. 25 the January 1th meeting or the January 25th meeting 13 A Okay. 14 conceming what committees you wanted to be on? |24 Q_And did she indicate why that was such ~ why 15 A_ Between the January 11th when we rejected the |15_ it wasa big deal? 46 committee meeting and the January 25th meeting | put [26 A Well, justin our discussion together just as 137. out on a public record a list of compromised 27. in my disappointment with not being on the economic x8 committees. So I had -- I put totally out on the 26 development committee. 8 public record what T thought my compromise would be. |19 mean setting the agenda for your committee 20 Imet with Mr. Hedges again and talked '20 is important, So I don't remember if she said that 21 through that list, but as far as --and Ilet people 21. specifically but I know that that was on my ming. 22 know on the public record that I wanted to continue on |22_ Q When you say, "setting the agenda,” what do 123 economic development. Other than that there was no |23 youmean? What exactly do you mean? 124 additional conversation, 24” A Well, [mean as economic development 2s Q_ With anybody? 25 committee chair specifically T set the agenda for the Page 18 Page 20 1 A No 1 meeting, [lay it out, I set it out, And so not all 2 Q Now, the list that you compiled and put out | 2 committees are like that. Sometimes the department 3 on the public record obviously comport with -- 3 heed sets that agenda. But on economic development 4 actualy, how doss it comport with what actually got | 4 specifically in my ease I set the agenda for those 5 done? 5 meetings. So a different chair could have set the 6 A. Tdhavetosee that exhibit. Imean, as far] 6 agenda out differenty. +7 as the chairmanships they weren't exacily the same. | 7 Q And making what difference? & But! mean I put myself as the chair of the economic | @ A Making the aggressiveness that you push for 9 development committee and Gina safety and Tom was | 9 some of the economic development things. 110 finance. Melody Bobbitt as public works. 0 1 think I pushed on that committee quite a 2 Twas keeping ~ In my list was keeping _|11 bit to make sure that, for example, we had gotten @ 412 most of the same chairmanships, l think, So that was |12_ retail analysis survey. Some of the pushing that I did ‘13. the goal of thelist that! put out on the public 13 during the first term on making sure the website was 14 record for every one to see. 14 updated, getting tools for incentive, |25 Q_ Well, how do you know that those were a5, Tmean I drive some of the agenda so I push |16 satisfactory? 46 some of the things that Mike Pettit has done as 37 A How did | know? 17 economic development director. 19 Q_ Ordid you know that was going to be 1e — Q- You couldn't do that as ust a member? 19 satisfactory? 19 A _Youdon't have as much say over the agenda, ‘20 A._No. I put that outas a possible compromise. |20 yes. So can't say you can't do ita all but 1 21. 1 didn't know that would be satisfactory ornot. I |21 wouldn't have as much say in doing it 22. knew that people were upset with losing their 22 Q_ Youcouldn't go to the chair - someone 23, chairmanships so I put that o 23, couldn't come to you as chair of the economic 24 Q_ You put the chairmanships back the way they |24 development committee and say, Mike, we really need £0 as were? 25. push this? ‘Thornsberry Reporting .. 614.519. (5) Pages 17-20 ‘wow. ThornsherryReporting.comRobert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs. City of Lanca Obl, et 56 Michael Fracassa~ Vol. inuary 31,2017 Pepe 25 1A. They certainly could but they don't have 2. was supposed to be happening here and you felt that 2 quite -- they wouldn't have quite as much influence | 2 that shouldn't be something that Bob Hedges should be 3 either way. Yes, that's correct 3. doing? 4 Q Well, when you say they wouldn't have the | 4 A” I think it's a collaborative effort. 5 same amoun of influence I'm not real sure how you mean | 5 Q_ Well, when did you first become aware that 6 that? 6 these appointments that were being made by Mr. Hedges | A. Because the chair has the opportunity to set | 7 were going to be rejected? | the agenda, they have the opportunity to help run the | 8 A During the vote on January 1th, | 9 flow of the meeting, and so that does make a 2 Q_ Youhad no prior discussions with anybody? 10. difference, to A._I'mean I had the one-on-one discussions that [11 Q_ You dont suppress things? /11. I mentioned that people were disappointed. I knew that 12 A Absolutely not, Absolutely not. 12 people were disappointed so I wasn't totally surprised 13 Q_Butif'someone wants to take charge of 43. that people voted against the committees but I didn’ 114 something on the economic development committee even |14 know what the vote would be. |15 though they're not chair they can't pursue that? 1s Q__You didn't have any idea what the other [1s A’ Tmnot saying they can't pursue it, but tt —_|16 people other than who you spoke to what thei actions [17 just ~ it helps you as chair. It just gives you more [17 were? 118. of an opportunity. te A No, I didnot. 19 Q Well, fom Mr. Hedges'tist he had appointed 29 Q_ So going in you had talked to Bentle, ‘20 new chairs to some commiztees? [20 Stoughton and Unl and you hadn't talked to anybody else la A Uh-huh. 22. on council? 122 Q Meaning that they would have had the same |22 A Ihhad not. No, I had not, 23. opportunity that you had to drive the agenda? 23 Q You're not aware of what their feelings were? 24 A Okay. 24 A. No, L was not, 25 Q_ Beaggressive and doing things that they may 25 Q So when you walked in the meeting the first Pose 22 Pose 24 1 have felt compassionate about, 2 time that's the first time you were aware that people 2A Okay. 2 were going to reject what Bob had done? i 3 Q And what was good for the goose would have | 3 A That's correct. 4 been good forthe gander. They would have been willing | 4 Q And you never mede a commitment to anybody 5. to do that 5 prior to that meeting to vote to eject? 6A Okay, 6 A No. 7 Q From the standpoint of taking that away ftom | 7 Q__Soafter the committee appointments being ‘them you felt comfortable in doing that? 2 made by Bob were rejected did you have discussions? 9A. Well, [was one I was one vote. Sol ° I think you said that after that you tried to 110 mean, yes, in my vote ~ in my vote Iwas comfortable |10 work something out with Bob? faa with that nA Uh-huh, 32 ‘Tmean my understanding is that the council [12 Q__And what happened? 13. president should work with the council members to get |13 A _Again, I proposed my slate, which I think {14 is committees approved because you have to work, so |14 kept 23 of the 27 stots the same but mostly change up a5 yes. 115. those chairmanships. 16 Q_ Sothe council president has to work to get [16 ‘As far as the conversation I remember T think 117 the chairs that he wants so he can get things done? [17 Bob said, well, even if he wanted to he couldn't eA Yes. 18 propose a slate again because he had to do it at the 19 Q_ And you weren't comfortable with letting 39.‘frst meeting 20 Mr. Hedges have that opportunity? 20 MR, HEDGES: That was the meeting at Panera, 2x A Timnot sure what |22 Qh, so you had the second meeting — 22 Q_ You said that the president works to try to [22 A The second meeting was at Panera, that is 22. get the chairs because if he's the president and gets |23. correct, 24 these chairs appointed because he would like to see |24 Q You had the second meeting and you were the 25. council going a certain direction is what you said what |25 only one there with Bob? (6) Pages 21 -24Robert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs. City of Lancaster Ohio, et al 1 January 31, 2017 i Pages Page 27 2A Yes, that’s comeet |. Q Thisis Plains Bxnibit 4, which isa 2 Q And going into the second mecting in January | 2. records request by Randy Groff 10 members of city 3 of 2016 did you have any idea what was going to happen | 3 council 4 atthe second meeting before you got tothe second 4 A Okay. s meeting? 5 Q Do you recall receiving that? 6 A No 6 A. think so, I mean I'm sure I di. 7 Q With regard to the committees? 7 Q Pardon? 8 A No | 8 A Yeah, it looks familiar, It has my email on 5 Q Noone had any disoussion with you at all | = itso 'msure received it. It's been more than a 10 other than Bob? 20-year, but a2 A. Otherthan with Bob and what Iput in the 11 Qo you know if you responded to it? 412 public record discussion I think that a couple people 12 A Tdon't 12 commented on my email that I sent out. |23, Q__Doyou know if you have any correspondence or 4 Q_ Butyoudidn't know what slate was going to 14. any of this information that doesn't appear in the 15 be proposed? 3s_ public record? 1s A did not as A. Tdon't know. 27 Q_ Orifaslate was going to be proposed. Did |17 Q Could you check? | 28 you know that at all? ae A Yes. 1s A No,I didnot 13 Q_ And let Mr. Fishel know? 20 Q_ Andwhen you saw the second slate, which is }20 A Yes. | 21 Exhibit, that would have been at the second meeting; [22 Q_ Tl hand you Plaintiff's Exhibit 5. Are you | 22. is that correct? 22 familiar with that document? nA. Yes, 23. MR. FISHEL: The same objection as before. 24 Q_ Itake ityou didnt have any concern about |2¢ _ Goahead. You can answer. 25 who was being moved out of Bob's list orre-assigned. |25 A Yes, it looks familiar. Page 26 Page 28 2 You didn’t know that and none of that troubled you at | 2 Q Do you know what the import ofthat letter 2 all? 2 was, why it was generated? 3A Well, mean locked at the ~ looking at | 3. A. Obviously for the authority on setting 4 this list I mean I saw the chairmanships were mostly in | ¢ committees, place from the last term, so that was something that | 5 Q_ So was there some doubt amongst council 6 did suppor. members as to what they could do, what they did on the 7 Q And do,you think that that's the way it 4 25th of January? 8 should elways be? @ A [don'tknow. 3A. Itdoesn't have to be, but 9 Q How about you personally, did you have any 10 Q_ So forpurposes of making the second set of [20 doubt as to whether or not that could be done before 12 appointments was it your understanding thatthe city [11 you got this letter? 32 council had the authority to do that? 32 A. Lthink what I wanted was path forward. aA Yes 33 Q_ What do you meen? 14 Q_ Andhow did you know that or why did you |24 A Well, the council president's committees were 45 think that? 15 rejected so we needed to have a path forward 1s A Because council was the approver ofthe is Q Was there a consensus as to why it was 27 committees, so I mean ~ 37. rejected as far as you know? 28 Q_ Was that not contrary to what the ordinance 28 A I don’t remember that a9 said? 19 Q_ Doyou know whether or not prior tothe 20 A Timtrying to remember this so T'm sure there [20 January 11th meeting in 2016 was there some discussion 21. was probably ~ I don't there obviously must have |21 about amending 111,06, which isthe statute that gives 22 been discussion on it but I don't remember that. |22_ the president the authority to — 23. Q Youhad no concems about whether ornot [23 A_ Twas not privy to that or I'm not aware of [24 those appointments would be valid or not? 124 that discussion, 2s A. No, didnot 25 MR. MICHALSKI: We'll take a break ‘Thornsberry Reporting . 614.519.2844 www. ThornsberryReporting.com (7) Pages 25-28Robert Hedges, Ind and as Clty Council President vs. City of Lancaster Ohio, et al Michael Fracassa- Vol. January 31,2017 98 2 Page 37 2 (A recess was taken.) 2 oryou cen waive that, I would advise and recommend 2 BY MR MICHALSKI: 2 that you do reserve your right to review it when that, 3 Q With regard to the January 11th meeting, | 3 time comes. 4 prior to that if you weren't elected you had a meeting | 4 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I would like to. with Bob to discuss his appointments -- 5 a 6 A Okay. 5S —__ Thereupon, the deposition was concluded 7 Q_ =which he gave to you and he asked for your | 7 at 4:10 p.m., on Tuesday, January 31, 2017.) '8 reaction, your response which you gave to him and you | 8 7 8 expressed to him some disappointment. 2 0A Uh-huh, 20 2 Q_ And you actualy really wanted to see him [24 12 make some changes to that. So after that was voted |12 {13 down there was - another list was made, which /a3, 14 according to you you did not sce until January 25th of | 34 Jas 2016. You're not even sure who made thelist, right? |35, 16 You'e not sure who made the list? a6 |a7 A. Well, L wasn't sure there was not alist uv |16 until I saw it front of me. Is that what you mean? = [18 las Q) Who made the list? a 20 A Oh, Yes, I was not sure who made the list, | 20 2 that's correct. aa 22 Q_ Areyou sure now? 22 23 A No. 23 24 Q_ Butyou didn't have the same expectation with |24 25. regard to those whoever it was, whether one person, (wo | 25 Page 99 Page? people who prepared the list to come to you and get | > ee eee ee ‘your input on what committees you wanted to be on or | 2 SME OF —____ gg, ‘which committees you wanted to change? eee f ‘A No. Ilet know through the public record aa Sifeiat ‘that I wanted tobe on the economic development chair. | 5 1, MECHAML FRAGAGEA do Dereby certify Eat ‘So whoever made the list knew that. And I was the | © = have resd the deposition given on Tuesdays economic development chair. And that list did also | 7 Yanoery 21, 2017) thar topether with the correction include other key people as chairmanships, which is | ® page attached tereto noting changes in form or 3 what I -- which is what I voiced my eoneems 9 substance, Sf any, At 1e true and correct. 10 Q_ You felt that was your input? x0 iz A_ Yes, through the public record and everybody | 12 Serena raxexsex a2 saw it. 1 do bereby cartéty thet the forescieg 12 Q And sitting here right now you don't know how onion of ICHAEL FRACASBA van mubeitted to the 4 your list matches up with thelist that finally got |24 witness ¢or reading ond atgningy that after he bad as. approved? 2S stated to the undersigned wocary Public that he had ue A. Iknow the Key chairmanships that I cared |36 rang an¢ wuaninad nis deposition, be signed the sane in 17. about matched up with that list 27 wy presence on Boe aay ot ao. 1@ —_Q And you don't know what input other members | 18 118. of council had inthe development of that list? a 20 A No,Idont. 20 22 MR. MICHALSKE: All right. think that's | 21 2a it 22 23 MR. FISHEL: Okay. So, Mike, you have the |23 24 ability to review the transcript if it’s ordered just [aq 25. tomake sure everything has been accurately taken down |25 (8) Pages 29-32 ‘www, ThornsherryReporting.comRobert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs City of Lancaster Ohio, et al a 3 4 aa aa 3 4 15 16 v 18 jr "20 aa 22 23 24 a5 me Page 33 ERI ame, soled) My Comission Eepirens suse 1, 2020. Michael Fracassa- Vol. T Sanuary 31,2017 ‘ ‘Thornsberry Reporting .». 614.519.2844 (©) Page 33 www.ThornsberryReporting.comRobert Hedges, Ind and as Clty Council President vs. Michael Fracassa- Vol. Gin‘ Lanfiier Onn ea maar 310047 39 break cp 16232611272 [eomersaton ) appoint (1) 28:25 Civil (I) | 15:6,11,12,18;17-24; : Helps bostess "3 dee ae sppotnea 2) 305 Chverdae com) ty) [rent 22.24 oo Pisbe ‘able (2) appointment (1) c collaborative (1). correspondence (1) ae Te on Absolutely (2) ‘appointments (15) eal 2) comfortable (3) council (22) ma a ioar ro, |S ia2 mea 98 13.19,19:21; we | eee te8 te | ete ty jeommentee a) Toate tetee oo ranenenzetioe |S 13 tae 1213635 hanes Ea came tt) comments (2) 2331261216273, cura sopresaed() ms ie Seauacos scion i cms) omttment cy | coneingan 9 an meee SiSizqei, an neianoas actual (1) 9:20 27-24;31:1 ‘committee (18) | Councilwoman (4) me approved @) caree) Solita reig | CIN TIS aSR actly Teoesasois |e tigress course 2) MN aoa, approver) caeil) gissioizis, “ete? ton ei "ou 28201024215 couple ty Les ston) corn) 29 se wenetiey po ies commtices(1s) | court) 7 utters @) eoraniv to sos sddveed() aetna mt Tea013:71418; | caosbExAMINaTtONy a [aware ered) seaaooa ig |S GS ean ener ait (cto BS fizer36 7284, currency 7 Boege lear ree s oa vay) Treet4s16 leompantenatc) | eorendyt) ie oy Ieaiosaizaans, oT ‘3 og B33821 11843308, compiled) Aiton) | entra @) compilat sf BAG) ie mess Dae@) ae so charmenstp (1) | compmtcated (1) "as 17:20;24:13,18, bachelor's (1) 14:5 TAS David (1) seat) sor cotirmanshipa (13) |eomport @) vr 9:18;23:13 back (2) 12:7,20,25;14:16,18; 18:34 deal (1) eee Stnts2s IGIAEES Rea, [conprorae 2) 4 Serene eer seasorie Terps)” | December) Paes ss enti) coupreabed () = agree) basi) Sade, TRI Defendant ars ms Taseteaur 82120 | concern 2) so aggressiveness (1) some (1) 22:17,23,24 19:3;25:24 degree (1) as 333 ciakwcenas) —— foamearaingtd) a a reals) Te mri deperoment (1) ma rpseasa9,525 | change @) concerns) 300 coe taza seis 7232625:309 | depose ty we, ene) |enaged conte ay amending) ms "8 a depestion oe vest cnanges (1) coatereace() Bestest 8 fea * 330 755 Baie non vig) character () conn) dcrlopment 20) ‘amongst (1) 19:2,15 313 28:16 11:13,14,18;14:7,15, 28:5 biG) charge (1) consent (1) 25;15:7,24517:23;18:9;, a SSaasz0n | on iStazeansyoe = Boot, neck @) conte) Snaosnts wekisc Taarssaaies6, [Nan ohay a0 afeence - Tabageaatoaas | cuttan O) conataton (1) Sean Fae Bioinass 2% |Oemtass a7 aaerene) : esol) |cartance a) contaued) es sppetr() Tettasa6isio Non? 3 aaereny cy QT Bob's (1) ity (8) contrary (1) 20:6 ee 38 Tese1ai, “ete avert ‘Thornsberry Reporting ... 614.519.2844 ‘www. 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Sanwary 31,2017 5:22 920213 so4 ta | seato13 direction (1) eject (1) finance @) handled (1) into @) 22:28 24:5 1223;1810 117 | rmtos.2 irector (1) elected 2) ‘ine (1) happen (1) Investigation (1) 20:17 9:2:29:4 5:16 25:3 624 dlsappotnted (10) ‘lection (2) first (11) happened (2) 11:12,20,22;12:6; 9:25;10:6 5:4,1857:22,813; 10:16;24:12 14:5,18,17;19:9:23:11, | else (4) 16:6,12;20:13:23:5,25; | happening (1) Saeco 2 12:217313:13;23:20 | 24:1119 2:1 January (18) disappointment (5) email 2) Fishel (9) 3:2;15:23:16.24; 14:6,25)15:5319:17; | 25:13;27:8 721;10:8;13:5,223; 17:10,13,13,15,16; 299 ‘employment (1) 16:8;27:19,23;30:23 | Hedges (10) 23:8;25'2;28:7.20; discuss (2) 6s five) 9:18;10:12,19;11:3, | 29:314331:7 14:8;29:5 end (1) 6:13, 417:20;22:2023:2,6, ———~ Discussion (12) 10:18 flow (1) 24:20 K 6:16;11:10;14:13,19; | enough (1) 21:9 Hedges! (1) 15:8:17:12319:1625°9, | 7:18 follows (1) 219 keeping (3) 12;26:22;28:20,24 | even (4) SS held (1) TET discussions (5) 19:11;21:14324:17; | force (1) (66 kept 3) 1O:11;14:11;23:9,10; | 29:18) 317 help (1) 11:8:12-23;24-14 248 everybody (1) forward (2) 21:8 key (2) document (8) 30:11 28:12,15 helps (1) 30:8,16 8:23:11:9,11;16:20; | everyane (1) FRACASSA (4) 21:17 knew (8) 2722 12:24 3:853,11,15 herein (1) 12:5,10518:22;23:11; done (7) exactly (2) ERACASSA() | 3:8 3056 15:9,14;18:5;20:16; | 48:7,19:23 sal hereinafter (1) 22:1724:2:28:10 | example (I) front (1) S4 L double (1) 20:11 29:18 himsett (1) — 172 Exeuse (1) rb “| 9:18, Lancaster (3) doubt @) 15:16 G history (1) | s1383:91 28:5,10 Exhibit @) Sai Ist (8) down 3) 8:9,22516:3,12;17:6; | gander (1) holding (1) $:9;9:4;16:10,11; 7:9;29:13330:25 18:6,25:2137:1,21 2d 149 | 265 Drive (S) ‘expectation (1) garbled (1) Hortons (4) taws (1) $:13)10:25:1 1-15 29:24 73 10:22,24,28;1 21 1 20.15,21:23, experience (1) rave (3) ‘hub-ub (1) lay (1) duly (1) 129 13:10,29:7.8 18 20:1 $4 express (1) general (1) letter @) ‘during (2) 134 12:20 1 281,11 20:13;23:8 | expressed (@) | penerated (1) jetting (1) 1299 | 28:2 idea (2) 22:19 E fp pets 1) 23:15;25:3, evel CD) F [2223 import (1) 623 earlier (1) ——————eina 28:1 tine 9:4 Fate (1) 189 Important (1) 173 economic (18) 7:18, aves (2) 19:20 Uist (29) 11:13,1417;14:7,15, | fairly 1) 21:17;28:21 | Incentive (1) 122,17513:10:15:9, 25;15'6;17:23;188; | 10:1 foal (1) 20:14 24;17:69,17215182, 19:17,24:20:3,9,17,23; | faruiliar (5) 18:13 Smelude (1) 11,13;19:4;21:19; 21:14305,7 8:23;10:2;27:8,22,25 | good (2) 30:8 25:25,26:4;29:13.15, economics (1) far (5) 234 Indiana (2) 16,17,19,20;30:1,6,7, 5:22 174,21;18:6;24:16; | goose (1) 5:22.24 14141719 educate (1) 28:17 22:3 indicate (1) le 3) 139) feel (1) ‘geld (2) 19:14 | san assa2s ‘educational (1) 11:22 16.1622 {indicates (1) long (1) 5:20 feelings (2) Groff) oT 68 effect 2) 14:3;23:23, 272, Individually (1) took (1) 3:17:92 fox 6) -— —J 1316 19:4 effective (1) 12:10,23;22:1,8; H Influence (2) Hooked (1) 9:14 23:1;30:10 21:2,5 263 effort (1) fled (2) hand (2) information (2) ooking (1) 23:4 813,19 1622721 5218.27.14 2633 either (2) Finally (1) handing (1) input 3) looks (2) ‘Thornsberry Reporting ... 614.519.2844 @) dlrection - looks ‘www. ThornsberryReportRobert Hedges, Ind and as City Council President vs, City of Lancaster Ohlo, et al. 27:85 lose a) 148 losing 2) 12:6;18:22 lost (2) 12:25;14:16 tot (1) 8 M making (5) 17:4;20.7.8,13,26:10 many (1) sa marked 2) 8851622 master's (2) 5:23.23 matched (1) 30:17 ‘matches (2) 16:23;30:14 may (4) 3:10,11,15; MBA G) 523623 mean (23) 8:17,9:17:12:5,19; 14:13,24;18:6,8:19:19,, 23,23,24;20:15;21:5; 22:10,12;23:10.26:3,4, 17,27:6,28:13:29:18 Meaning (1) 21:22 meeting (31) 10:18,19;11:2,5, 13:12;15:23;16:6,14, 171710,13,13, 16,16; 19:7,20:1;21-9:23:25; 24:5:19.20,21,22,24;, 28:2/45,21;28'20,29:3, 4 ‘meetings (2) 10:23;20:5, Melody (1) 18:10 member 2) 19:12;20:18 members (8) 9:9;10:20;13:15, 15:25:22:13;27.3.286, 30:18 ‘memberships (1) 15 Memortal (2) 10:25.25 mentioned (1) Bll met (3) 16:10,11;17:20 MICHAEL @) 3:85.11 3:956:6,11,12,14.25; MICHALSKI (9) 83 STG15,17 10:9; | one (16) 13:8;14:1;28:25;29:25 | ~ 6:15 1:8)12:9,24; 30.21 33:2415:12,13,18,22; middle (1) V7:12;18:14:22'9.5, © | a5 24:25,25:9:29:25 might (5) one-on-one (1) 139,17;14:8,19;15:8 | 23:10 Mike (6) only @) S:15,16,1720:16.24; | 15:22.24:25 30:28 ‘onto () | mind (1) 149 19:21 operations (1) missed (1) 66 13:24 opportunity (6) more 2) 9:20;21:7,8,18,23; 217279 22:20 most @) ordered (1) 9:3518:12 30:28 | mostly @) ordinance (2) 19:1;24:1 4264 9:7;26:18 moved (1) ‘ordinances (1) 25:25 sit much (3) others @) 20:19,21;21:2 12:5,22:13:21 must (0) otherwise (1) 26:21 12:24 Myseif@ out 15) 1131838 3:12;12:9,17.17:17, 18518:2,13,20,23;26:1, N 1,6;24:10;25:13,25 over @) name @) 15:14:20:19 59.9173 need (2) P 7:4;20:24 needed (1) Panera (2) 2815 | "24:20,22, needs (2) Pardon (1) 7389:13 2:7 new (1) participate (1) 21:20 &15 None (2) particular (2) 4:21;2601 9:7.22 Notary (6) parties (1) ' 111214 16,1618_ | 3:7 Fseeeesereee path (2) ° 28:12,15 | pending (1) objection (1) 722 27:23 people (12) obviously (3) 1314142151721; 183:2621;283, 18:22;23:11.12,13,16; occur @2) 241,25:12;30:1 10:15,21 person (1) ony 29:25 6:15,16,128,11 personally (1) omice 2) 28:9 6114 perspective (1) official (1) 1424 3:13 Pettit (1) ObI0 20:16; phone (3) 15214,18,19 place @) 932635 latin) 39 Plaintf?'s (4) 8916327121 planned (1) 1136 please (1) 58 plus (1) 12:22 pm) 33317 point (1) Iss polities (1) $22 position ( 1s possible (1) 18:20 prefer (1) 4 prepared (2) 16:20;30:1 preparing (1) 816 presence (1) 3:12 present (1) 112 presented (1) 123 presently (1) 7:28 president (8) 6:6;9:8.21:22:13,16, 22,23;28:22 president's 2) 921932814 resume (1) 7S previous (1) 9:18 prior (6) 15:23:17:12,239; 24'528:19;29:4 privy (1) 28:23 probably (1) 26:21 Procedure (1) 3:10 recess (1) 10:2 proof (1) 3:13 propose (1) 218 proposed (4) ‘Michael Fracassa~ Vol. 1 January 31, 2017 19:2;2413;25:15,17 publte (11) 12:1231717,19.2%, 18:3,10,13:35:12; 27:15;3068,11 purposes (1) 26:10 pursue (2) 21:15,16 push @) 20:8,15,25 pushed (1) 20:10 pushing (1) 20:12 puta) ¥7:16,18;182,8,13, 20,23.24/25:11 Q qualifteation (1) 314 quite 4) {622;20:10;21:2,2 R Randall (1) 818 Randy (1) 272 reactlon (1) 29:8 real (1) 2 really (2) 20:24;29:11 reason (2) TAIT resassigned (1) 25:25, recall (2) 13:112735 reeeive (1) 1 received (1) 219 receiving (1) 21S recent (1) 93 recess (1) 29:1 recollection (1) 14d recommend (1) 31 reconsider (1) 13:9 record (13) $:8:6:15.16;8:25, 17:17,19,22;183,14; ‘Thornsberry Reporting w» 614.519.2844 www. ThornsberryReporting.com @) lose - recordRobert Hedges, Ind and as City Counell President vs. Michael Fracassa- Vol. City of Lancaster Ohio, etal nuary 31, 2017 25:12;27:15;30%8,11 | stlsfactory 3) Sometime (1) 21317:20;23:1920 | understood @) records () 18:16,1921, To:16 term @) 716 14 24:15:5 72 sav 5) Sometimes (1) 8:539:3,25;10:7.8,11; | University 3) regard @) 166:25:20,261; 202 20:13;26:5 6413.03 2s:729:3.25 29:1830:12 sorry @) ‘terms (1) up (6) saying @) 16 9;13:29315:17 ee 10:19;12813173; Bt6 specifically 3) thereafter 1) 24:14330:1417 relected (5) science (0) 19:21,28;20:4 31 updated (1) 171523273244 saz spell (1) Thereupon (1) 20:14 28:15,17 second (12) 39 31:6 upset 3) rejection (1) 9:5,79:25:24:21,22, | spoke (1) third (0) 11:2412:11;18:22 9:23 24282442021; | * 23:6 1323 se (1) remember (11) 26:10 spoken (2) ‘though @) 92 G2111:783:20; | Seetton (1) 133175198 SHB; 19:11.21315 — 1$:422:169;1020, || 9:1 standing 1) thought (2) 24:16;26202228:18 | seemed (1) 99 13811719 repeated (1) 192 standpoint (1) three @) valid) od seems (1) 227 69,121321 26:24 repeat (1) 173 state Te) verbally (1) 4 sent (1) 58 10:22,24,25;11:1 14 replacement (1) 25:13 State's 2) together (1) vice (1) 1938 series () 6:11 14 19:16 66 reporter (2) 71 statate (1) told cy voleed (1) 5:10.78 serve) 28:21 11:20 30:9 represent (2) 153 stenotype (1) Tom @) | vote (6) B:25i16:22 served () \" 3:10 1223189 22°9,10,10;2338,14; request (1) Beh 1210:1;15:2 | sal) tools () 24s 272 Session (1) 11317 20:14 voted @) reserve (1) 3 stipulated (1) totally @) 9:18;23:13:29:12 312 st 36 1541 7218;28:12 residence (1) 10:19;19:25,20:1,4, | SFIPULATIONS (1) _| transertbed (1) w 12 5:215526:10 35 312 respective (1) sets (0) Stoughton (4) transcript @) walve () 37 203 Taig 1a121817%; |" 3:15;30:24 3I:L responded (1) setting @) 23:20 ‘Treasurer (2) walved (1) zl 19:19,22:283 structure @) eil14 314 responding (1) shake @) 10-4117 trlea iy walked @) 72 7631221 stuck @) 243 17:10;28:28 response (2) shall (1) 123,17 troubled (1) vwants @) 1242938 8 support (1) 26:1 21:13;22:17 retail (1) shoulders (1) 26:6 ery) ward Q) 20:12 77 supposed (1) 2222 86.7 review (2) showed @) Bil trying () way 8) 30243122 11668 suppress (1) "26:20 8:16;14:1718:24; revised (1) shrugs (1) 21) 21:3:26.7 ot 76 sure (14) website (1) Right (9) sign (1) ISI3ZOLNI321:S; | wo (6) 20:13 Ftoass2ssi; | 1S 22:21;26:2027%68; | 6:13;10.22:12:21.22; | week @) 16:14,29:15;30:13,25 | signed (a) 29:15,16172022;, | 15:13;29:25 16:10,11 312 318 30:28 type) weeks (i) Rules @) similar @) surprised (1) 16:16 13 3:9(6:25.25, 4:13:16:5,13,16 Biz weren't (8) run (i) siting 1) survey (D) u 11:2121318:722:195 28 30:13 20:12 —| 28: —— | station sworn (D) um) Wesleyan @) s 9:22 sit 1320,28:14:22; 5.2324 tate (6 ————| _15:21:23:20 what's 6) safety (4) 19:6:26:13 1825514, vunom 5112;6:5;8:6,8;16.2 1238,16:14:5:18:9 1720 8:18 whenever (1) same @) stots (1) talk 2) under (1) 16:10 S725 18712; | 4 721;13:13 39 willing CD) 31:5.2924'14,27.23, someone @) talked () Understandable 1)" 22:4 29:24 jmaezans 1515,18,19,1920, | 7:10 | wtess 4) ‘Thornsberry Reporting ... 614.519.2844 (4) records - witness ‘www. ThornsberryReporting.comRobert Hedges, Ind and as City Counel President vs. Michael Fracassa- Vol. 1 City of Lameasier Oho eta January 31,2017 saszanasaie F work ) 5 22:13,14,1624:10 sa) | 228 2721 year 2) 924227310 years 3) 69,1213, ee 10) 39 111.06) Breed | tha 152816141713, 1523182820.208 3 2 2018) 10:16 2015-16 (1) 10:6 201616) 15:23:16:24:17210; 25:3;38:20,29:15 2016-17 @) 10:8,9,11 20170) 32317 Bw 26:14 28th (7) 16:17,24317:10,13, 16;28°7;29:14 aay | 21d 324) | 33 Q@ 32317 | 4a) 2 4:10) 31:7 ‘Thornsberry Reporting -.. 614.519.2844 (S)work-5 ‘www. ThormsberryReporting.com