Review Courtesy AllAboutJazz.

com

Alvin Queen: The Move, The Groove and The Beat

Alvin Queen

By Maxwell Chandler
There are two types of great drummers in jazz, the
impeccable time keepers and the ones who bring
something more to both the instrument and the
pieces/groups in which they appear. Alvin Queen is of the
latter group, possessing a casual grace and instantly
recognizable sound. He is in a direct line of artistic
descendants from other great skin-men including Billy
Higgins, Elvin Jones and Max Roach.

AAJ contributor Maxwell Chandler sat down with Queen to

talk about his impressive pedigree.

Chapter Index

1. Early Days
2. Studies and Influences
3. First Gig/Gretsch Drum Night
4. First Recording/John Coltrane
5. Organ Trios
6. George Braith/Grant Green/John Patton
7. Playing Live vs. Studio Recording/Drum Sound
8. Horace Silver
9. Favorite Organists
10. The European Scene
11. Nilva Records/Oscar Peterson/Current Line-Up
12. Club Scene
13. Current and Dream Projects

Early Days

All About Jazz: You grew up in the Levister Projects during the fifties, and your father was a jazz
enthusiast, taking you to shows at The Apollo. Did you inherently have a passion for the music
from the get-go or did it grow on you?

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Alvin Queen: Ive always had passion for the music, because although I lived in a town as small
as Mount Vernon, NY, which was an area of only four square miles, they had at that time at least
five jazz clubs where folks could hear music.

You must keep in mind that jazz music was once a

danceable music, and I was able to see the connection
between entertaining the audience and playing my
instrument, and how I could make them a part of my
performance. All the good players understood that.

Today, you can hear musicians playing music, which

they can understand, but most of them have forgotten
that the audience cannot follow what they are saying
musically--the audience works every day, nine to five--so
chances are if they havent actually studied music in the
context of some school, theyre not going to know what
youre playing, unless the feeling is there for them to pat
their foot, to be a part of it.

AAJ: Your brother, Willie Queen, was a percussionist with the Grime School Marching Band, an
activity he tried to turn you onto. At The First Church of God In Christ, you played the tambourine
while singing in choir. Did these two things occur at around the same time or did one open you up
to the possibilities in your mind of the other?

AQ: I really never knew what I want to do in life at the age of eight, but my brother used to take
me to school every day (he was five years older), and I also wanted to follow him in life, so he
was marching every year in the annual school parade band and I thought, Once I become old
enough I want to do that.

Regarding the second part of the question, in most black families at that time we had to go to
church every Sunday or you wouldnt be able to go out to play with your friends on Saturday, or
youd have to stay in the house all day on Sunday, thats how serious it was. Yes, they did occur
around the same time, because I can remember as far back when all children had to sit in the
front row during Sunday school meetings, and I saw my Grandmother singing and beating the
tambourine when I was just four, so the vibration of being into music was always around me
because my family in the neighborhood always played a major part of my life, so I took part in the
choir and I picked up the tambourine and played it, too.

AAJ: You were shining shoes to save for a drum kit, a slow-going
prospect in any economy, although your shine kit allowed you entrance
into the studio, where you were able to meet studio owner Andy Lalino
and take lessons. How long did these formalized lessons last? Fairly
fast you would get practical application in diverse, hands-on situations.
Was this the only time in your career in which you formally studied?

AQ: To make a long story short, Ill tell you how I met Andy Lalino. It
was after Christmas holidays. I remember my mother had taken me Christmas shopping on

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Fourth Avenue in Mount Vernon, and I remember looking up onto the second floor of a building,
where I saw written, Andrew Lalino Drum Studio, which was like a storefront window everyone
shopping could see.

By this time in my life, Id joined the same marching band in school that my brother was part of
before he moved on to junior high school. They were teaching me the marching rudiments, and
reading in elementary school, so I did have an idea of how to read music for the drums when I
first met Andy.

But, respectfully, I have to correct you on something. When youre a black kid in the
neighborhood, most of the children would try to find something to do so they could pick up a few
dollars on the side without getting into trouble; this is why I use to shine shoes, because most
kids had a paper route or something else.

Most of the people in the neighborhood knew who I was because they used to have many places
called skin joints, where most of the black men were playing cards or doing some kind of
gambling, and they were all friends of my father, so I knew that I could make a decent buck or two
around there, so Id walk from place to place with my shoe shine box until I felt like I had enough
money for the day.

Now to get back to Andys studio, I needed a way to get up there to see what was happening. So
I used my shoe shine job to offer him a free shine, so that I could see what was going on, thats
when he asked me if I knew anything about the drums, and I told him yes, because I was playing
in the Grime School Marching Band.

He told me to have my mother contact him for lessons--which I did--but my mother was raising
five kids at this time on her own, so my lessons became too expensive after nine months. This is
where Andy stepped into the picture. He knew I was a good kid and he didnt want me to turn to
the streets, so he started to teach me just like the rest of the kids, only now for free, and he told
me in return that once I became successful I could pay him back. Thats how it happened.

These lessons lasted for about six years, and I turned out to be Andys best student, so he was
very proud. This was only the period in my life that I studied formally, with anyone. To this day,
Andy and I are the best of friends, after forty-five years.

Studies and Influences

AAJ: In general, what did your musical studies consist of? How long
each day would you practice, and is this something you still do?

AQ: I normally would practice for at least three or four hours a day on
rudiments and exercises to keep my hands together, but the first thing
you have to realize is that the drum is a very loud instrument, so you
have to find the correct place, so youre not disturbing someone else
with it.

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I mostly practice when Im traveling, because usually I can get into the club a few hours earlier,
before the sound check, and enjoy working out.

I came up when they didnt have metronomes, which would tell you how a triple or an eighth note
would sound like, so the teacher would tell us how they would sound, and youd sing that sound
all week long to yourself and if you forgot it, that would be your lesson for another week.

This definitely gets to be expensive when you have to pay for those lessons, so this is how I
learned about the sound of the sixteenth note, the eighth and the quarter note.

I can still remember some of the books I learned from at that time, such as Haskin in Hard, Ted
Reed Syncopation, and I had to study with the Jimmy Chaplin Music Minor--one LP with the
music charts--which was made for drummers learning to play with big bands.

AAJ: During this time what were you listening to and who were your heroes? Were there any
drummers or particular sounds you made an effort to emulate?

AQ: My father was very heavily into music at this time of my life, so it was always being played in
my house, and I was always trying to act and imitate people like Arthur Prysock, Billy Eckstine,
Bill Henderson and Jimmy Rushing, some of my favorite drummer were: Elvin Jones, Max Roach,
Art Blakey, Roy Haynes, Walter Perkins, Louis Hayes, Roy Brooks, Gus Johnson, Panama
Francis, just to name a few.

During this time of my life black people were still using chemicals to
straighten their hair, and I was waiting until I became old enough to
have my hair done. Im telling you this to understand the rest of the
story Im going to tell you, about my introduction into the music world,
because you asked me what I was listening to during this period.
Remember, I was not older than ten or eleven and I knew some of the
very biggest names in jazz already.

So, to continue the story, my father would to take me to Sugar Ray

Robinsons barber shop down in Harlem, where folks would have their hair done. My father was
having his hair processed at least every two weeks, at this same place where Miles Davis,
Cannonball Adderley, Joe Louis, Moms Mabley, Redd Foxx, Philly Joe Jones would also
frequent.

After each visit to Sugar Rays barber shop, my father would take me to the Apollo Theatre to
catch a show before wed return to Mount Vernon by subway, and if he didnt have a copy of the
record with him, by the artist wed just seen, after the show we would go to a record shop across
the street and do just that, before our journey back home.

It was run by a guy called Teddy McRae.

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First Gig/Gretsch Drum Night

AAJ: One of your first professional gigs was at the age of eleven with the Jimmy Hill Trio. Had
you your own kit yet? How hard is it for a drummer to play another musicians kit, or do the
potential difficulties vary with each musician?

AQ: By this time I had managed to get my own drums, and Id like to share with you how this
happened. Jimmy Hill was a self-taught alto player who was always trying to help other people
out. He was more like the Cannonball Adderley of Mount Vernon, and my father and most of the
people in the neighborhood would always go do to the Ambassador Lounge on Eleventh Avenue
to listen to him play on weekends.

One special evening Jimmy Hills drummer didnt show up, and I believe this was on a Friday
night, which left Jimmy in a very difficult situation, as there wasnt anyone else around that he
could call, so he thought of me this particular evening.

He knew I was underage, and therefore not allowed to be in a place that sold alcohol unless
accompanied by an adult. Jimmy had about an hour to get things together, so we heard a knock
on the door and he spoke with both of my parents explaining the situation. My father called me in
the room and asked me, Alvin, do you think you can help Mr. Hill out for the evening, and do you
think you know the music? After which I turned around and said, Sure Dad, I think I can help Mr.
Hill for tonight and I know that there wouldnt be any problem, because they cant be playing any
music other than whats in your record collection and I know all that. So my father said Fine. Put
your little suit on and lets go!

AAJ: Like your first gig, because of your age, you had to be
accompanied by an adult to your next baptism of fire, the annual
Gretsch Drum Night held at the original Birdland [in New York City]. You
garnered enthusiastic responses from what now reads like jazz
percussions royal court (Elvin Jones, Charlie Persip, Max Roach and
Mel Lewis). Being young but already displaying talent, did any of these
cats have any advice to offer?

AQ: Yes, this was something organized by Andy Lalino, who was also
more like my manager. Once he got permission from my parents, he was able to pick me up and
drive to Birdland, where he introduced me to Elvin Jones. Elvin took me in right away, and told all
the drummers around him to leave me alone, because I was his son. Pee Wee Marquette used to
bother me all the time until Art Blakey and Elvin told him to leave me alone or he would know
what was going to happen, and after that Pee Wee backed off.

Elvin presented me on stage with five other Gretsch Drummers that night: Art Blakey, Max
Roach, Philly Joe Jones, Charlie Persip and Mel Lewis. They didnt give me any advice, per se.
They just commented about how they were very happy to see me playing and handling the drums
so well at that age. It was a key moment for me, to feel at that young age that it was all about
being around the correct musicians to be able to hear what was right. Its hard for musicians
today to get this right, because most of the legends are dead and gone.

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AAJ: This special night was held on the still thriving 52nd Street scene. It was a fertile period
when masters of different eras and schools could still be found in late night jam sessions. Did you
get the feeling of the cats being broken into different camps based on genre (bop, cool et al) or
was the old adage that there are only two types of music good and bad the general rule?

AQ: There were different forms of music and around this time things were beginning to change,
but still, above all, musicians had respect for one another. John Coltrane gave musicians more of
a chance of playing much freer.

Roy Haynes was playing triplets way back with Charlie Parker and Sarah Vaughan, but
everybody thought it was something new when Elvin came along playing them with Coltrane.

There was a big change during this period with Elvins style of playing
and also Tony Williams. Normally Elvin played more triplets off of the
beat whereas Tony was able to free up the bass drum and use it for a
lot of accentuation.

The older guys used to demand you just play time, without any
syncopation, and when it was time for you to solo theyd give you the
freedom to play, but youd have to play that solo in time with the bass
drum. The bass drum to the older guys was the heartbeat of the band,
just like the engine of a car, and without that, nothing would function, so they depended on that.

AAJ: A year later you would make your first appearance on a record. Leading up to this, where
you now regularly gigging? Did this affect your schooling at all? At what point did you realize this
was your calling, and did you readily find support from your family?

AQ: Well no, I was not gigging, because I never realized what success was, I was mostly just a
happy kid, and it wasnt about what you didnt have, it was all about what you were accomplishing
in life. It did affect my schooling, because it made it very difficult for me to get out of bed many
mornings after getting in late at night, but I managed to do it, burning eyes and all. I never
realized this was my calling, because at my age what would I know about a calling? Twelve years
old is pretty young!

First Recording/John Coltrane

AAJ: Your album debut has an impressive cast, and features Zoot Sims, Art Davis, Hank Jones
and Harold Mabern (splitting piano chores). Do you remember the set list? You were still very
young; did you get any guff from your fellow musicians? This album was never released, and
besides being a shame for us listeners, did it affect your outlook towards the business? Has
anyone ever explained why this album was not released, then or now?

AQ: This record was also arranged by Andy Lalino, who managed to speak with some important
people whod heard me perform at the Gretsch Drum event at Birdland. That night was very
successful for me; someone had decided to spend the money to introduce me to the world as a
child prodigy.

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Andy decided to contract the musicians and Joe Newman was contracted as music director, so
he got for the date Zoot Sims, Art, Davis, Hank Jones and Harold Mabern. Hank was not able to
do the second session because he was still working for NBC, so he was replaced by Harold
Mabern.

The set list I dont remember, but I know there were a couple of Joes and Zoots tunes added to
the date.

I did have a problem a few times within the date, but they were not with the musicians, they were
more with Joe Newman. Joe was the type of guy who always stayed on your back about keeping
the time up, play strong and keeps the beat steady, and thats all I could hear.

I was only twelve years old, so from time to time my muscles would get tired and Joe would say,
Lets take a break, so the kid can take a rest and get his chops together, but the record turned
out in the end to be perfect.

AAJ: The next event in your life could definitely be seen as a graduation of sorts. While still in
your teens, happenstance found you once again at Birdland, this time as John Coltranes classic
quartet was recording their live album, Live at Birdland (Impulse!, 1963). Elvin Jones had you sit
in with the band midway through first set. Do you remember the set list? In some respects, now,
jazz has become more rigid in an audiences expectations of what encompasses a show. To your
knowledge, were people responsive to your presence on the bandstand?

AQ: I remember this night so well, because the Terry

Gibbs Quartet was the opening act for Coltrane, and I
remember Alice McLeod was playing piano with Terrys
group. Of course later she became Alice Coltrane.

This is where George Braith first spotted me, which led to

my joining his group soon after. During this special night
Elvin sat me at his table with his wife and put a coca cola
in front me, before he headed for the stage, I was no
more than three feet from the band, where I could see
both feet and hands working.

I never knew what Elvin had in mind, but all of a sudden

Elvin got up from the drums while John was playing and
said, The kid has to learn, and he picked me up, sat me
on the drums and said, Now play!

People were responsive to the way I played, because

they realized I knew what I was doing, and it would just
be a matter of time before building up my muscles.
Thanks to this special night at Birdland, I was at the top of the list as one of the youngest jazz
musicians in the business in 1963.

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The set list consisted of the same tunes as found on Live at Birdland, and one of the tunes which
was very popular was Afro Blue by Mongo Santamaria. I cant recall what tune it was when Elvin
put me up on the drums.

AAJ: Did you ever play with or keep in touch with any members of the band after that?

AQ: I use to call Elvin just about every day, and he was responsible for getting me a brand new
set of drums from the president of Gretsch drums at the time, Mr. Phil Grant. McCoy and I have
been talking about getting together for many years, but things havent as yet materialized.

I used to go down to Pooky Pub to hear Elvins group after he left Coltrane, and he had Joe
Farrow on tenor and Junior Booth on bass and sometimes Jimmy Garrison.

I was part of Jimmy Garrisons band before he passed away, which included George Braith,
Ronnie Mathews, Juantine Faulks and me on drums. I use to see Jimmy a lot because he was
living in Horace Silvers building, I believe on 87th Street, before Horace moved to Los Angeles.

Organ Trios

AAJ: You were now working with Wild Bill Davis in an organ trio. Was this your first time playing
with this instrument and did you find you had to alter your touch at all for the music being
produced?

AQ: No not really because the first organ player that I ever worked with was Richard Levister
from Mount Vernon and he was a part of the Jimmy Hill Trio in which I replaced the drummer.

AAJ: In general, do you find you must change your touch depending upon the instrumental line-
up of an ensemble?

AQ: This is a very interesting question, because it is the most important one for me. The reason
why Ive taken so much time and [so many] years to play with everyone that Ive played with is
because every individual person has something to say. They speak differently and their emotions
are different. You cant play the same way with everyone, because it simply wont always work,
and therell definitely be some kind of conflict with the musicians in the band.

If each musician tries to be creative at a certain spot within the music, you are supposed to hear
this within an eight to a sixteen bar phrasing, if youre listening. Ive learned from my experience
of life and as a musician to learn from playing on the bandstand, not going to school. My school
was the bandstand.

The musicians used to yell at me years ago and at times say some very ugly things, but they only
meant well, funnily enough. They all knew in the long run I could do it, so one would have to take
this like a man during these moments, and to keep your mouth shut if you wanted the gig.

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The older musicians were like your parents, so you didnt speak back to them in a nasty way--and
if you did you knew youd better look for another gig. There were great musicians years ago and
they all could play. Whenever you were on a gig with someone years ago, there was always
someone waiting around for something to go wrong, so that they would get the gig and replace
you.

AAJ: Your next gig was backing singer Ruth Brown. The rest of her
band at that time was the Don Pullen Trio. In this group Don played not
piano, on which he was a wizard, but organ. I had known Dons work on
piano through his stint with Charles Mingus and his Don Pullen/George
Adams groups, never realizing hed also played organ. I read that it was
partially commercial considerations that made him adopt organ for a
while. Don was always very forward thinking, with a modernistic
progressive bent to his piano playing. What were his chops on organ
like?

AQ: Yes, it was Don Pullens trio, but I didnt know Ruth Brown until Don called me up to join his
group. Im not sure if it was C.I. Williams on alto or Tony Williams from Philadelphia, but we used
to play a lot in Gracies Belmont club in Atlantic City, New Jersey, which was the same place I
was working with Wild Bill Davis and Dicky Thompson.

I really didnt know Don as a piano player until years later when he showed up in Europe with
Charlie Mingus, and this is when he got his big break, but he had a beautiful touch on the
Hammond B3. Im pretty sure theres a record out under Dave Hubbards name, on the
Mainstream label, produced by Bob Shad, who did the date featuring Don on organ.

AAJ: I think when one is young the coming or leaving of a job seems a more serious, heavy
thing. Did leaving one group to join another bother you? Were they for the most part amicable
departures?

AQ: Man, this is one of the most painful things that can happen, because once youre involved in
a group its like being part of a family, and you learn to do things together.

The vibe among musicians is different today than years ago. When I came up, there were
musicians traveling from different parts of the country to New York, and if they had nowhere to go
after a jam session, they used to hang out all night at Horn & Hardarts restaurant or at Bickfords,
and if you had enough money to buy a sandwich, youd break that into pieces and share that with
him--thats what the music world was all about.

Most of the musicians would take another musician home with him and throw an extra mattress
on the floor to give him a place to sleep, thats what it was all about until you got a gig.

Most of the time there were not put-together bands. For example, some of Art Blakeys bands
would stay together for ten or fifteen years, the same was true for Horace Silver and Miles Davis
groups--you didnt leave school until it was time for you to be a bandleader.

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Most bandleaders would tell the record labels, Hes ready--thats how things were. This is one of
the reasons I went out of my way to perform with so many different people, to get my approval
that I was ready, for the word to be out there.

This didnt take four years; it took more like thirty-five years, and now Im putting it through the
test. Ive always left any group under good conditions. If not, Id feel guilty and couldnt face the
person later in life.

George Braith/Grant Green/John Patton

AAJ: Multi-reedman George Braith was also present at the Birdland Gretsch event. He offered
you a place in his band which at this time also included Grant Green and John Patton. This is one
of my favorite line-ups which George has had. Did you have a chance to record with George or
Grant at all? In looking at an overview of your career there is a wide variety of playing situations
in which you participated, but all seemed somewhat based in a sort of soul-groove feel or a
progressive hard-bop thing. Was your time with George your first foray into music which went a
little further out? George is a definite one of a kind, and like yourself seems in his music to be
comfortable with incorporating some of the same sonic base elements. Did your time with all
these various artists up to this point add things to your artistic palette or was your artistic
evolution more of a solitary inner thing?

AQ: George was really the one to discover me at Birdland and to put
my music through the test. I really have a lot of respect for George
because he was the one to help me to develop the mind and the sense
for putting things together.

When George bought me into his group it had some very powerful guys
and I suffered a lot because my chops were not strong enough at the
time, but they also took the time with me to get them right.

Try to remember that the Hammond B3 is a very strong instrument, and when you add John
Patton to the mix, its even stronger. Grant Green only wanted to know if you could find a groove.
He was all about closing his eyes and asking you to help him find that groove. It used to be funny,
because after Grants solo he would turn around say You are that bad motherfucker, and I
would just smile, because I knew I was doing something right.

George was the one who introduced me to so many people at this time. Hes the one who would
take me by Elmo Hopes house.

I can remember a gig I did with George at the Blue Cornet in Brooklyn, and he had Larry Young
on piano, Ernie Farrow on bass and me on drums.

I was with George when he decided to change his form of music by letting the organ go and then
adding piano and bass. After this, George decided to only use bass and drums. He was always
the guy to say to me Free up the time and drop the two and four on the hi hat.

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I had this same experience with Joe Henderson. Joe uses to love for the time to flow, without the
hi hat on every two and four, thats what I like about Joe Chambers. Hes a master at this and
whenever I get a chance to check Joe out, Im sitting right there.

The only recording I ever did with George is part of his private collection, and I think that
someone should definitely speak with him to get them out on CD. I was the one who originally
helped George to build his club Musart down on Spring St. during the 60s and early 70s.

I can remember Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane use to go there to rehearse and play together,
and I also received an offer from Sonny Rollins at this time to join his band at Georges place.
Many people used to come by, for example Roy Haynes, Janet Getz, Evelyn Blakey, Joe Lee
Wilson, Freddie Hubbard and Cedar Walton. Lots of musicians began to have lofts around this
time, were you could play all night.

AAJ: Would it be safe to say that at this point you had appeared more in live situations than you
had on record? Do you have a preference for one over the other?

Playing Live vs. Studio Recording/Drum Sound

AQ: Yes, thats true, I never looked at it that way, because I have been having a lot of fun during
my life, expanding my horizons with music and musicians, and it really doesnt matter to me
whether Im on record or not.

This gives me more reason to lead a group because I havent been overexposed this way, and I
have a lot to offer, and most of that youll begin to hear on my own records. I have a treasure
chest full of stuff to share with the world that I received from some of the greatest musicians who
ever lived; they gave me the material during the years I worked with them.

I prefer to play for a live audience, and if its being recorded, its definitely great to capture this if
possible, as these are some of the best recordings. This was the case with the live album at the
Domicile in Munchen [Impact (Strata East, 1975)] with the Charles Tolliver Quartet in 1972, the
same for the Loodrecht Jazz Festival in Holland double record set [Live at Loosedrecht Jazz
Festival (Strata East, 1973)]; these were classic recordings which opened doors for me in Europe
and America.

AAJ: When reading about rock & roll and sometimes with saxes in
jazz, equipment is discussed. Not as often though with things other
than horns, unless its an article in a trade specific magazine (Drum
World etc). Do things like types and brand of stick matter to you? Has
the size or configuration of your drum setup changed over the years or
with whomever you are playing? I know they are constantly coming up
with new materials to make mouthpieces and things with, new types of
mics and ways of recording. Have you tried anything new and cutting
edge which either didnt work or that became part of your working
setup?

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AQ: We are living in a world which tells us from day-to-day, that this is better than this. I really
dont believe this because the best set of drums that I ever had were Gretsch from the 1960s.
The wood they made the drums with at that time was much better than today.

I dont hear a real drum sound anymore on most recordings. What I hear is a drum sound which
is put together by the sound engineer. The studio today has modern equipment and the
engineers are from today; most dont have a foot in the past.

My sound is coming from only four drums; this is what I use mostly, and my set up never
changed. My last recording [I Aint Looking At You (Enja, 2006)] was mixed by Pete Bernstein
and I, and Im the one to push the levels of the drums up without using any compression on the
instrument. I also told the engineer how to set up the microphones to get the sound I wanted.

I dont need an engineer to make my sound for me. I know what Im looking for, and analog
recordings are much better for jazz. Normally digital recordings make everything seem sharp to
me, and thats not the sound of the drums that I remember.

Im a true jazz lover, and I havent heard anything better today than I did years ago for me to want
to change my setup. I remember when you used to be able to get the whole set of drums in a car
in 1963 without any problems at all. Now you need a van to go to the gig. Its just not possible to
get the drums into a car.

I have been using Vic Firth sticks for many years, which the company has been providing me
with, and theyre the best--a small version of the 7A.

Horace Silver

AAJ: You had an opportunity to audition in 1969 for Horace Silver, getting the gig. He had tried a
whole bunch of drummers, had you ever heard who had been turned down in lieu of you? At this
point in Horaces career he had Bennie Maupin and Randy Brecker in his band. What did the
bands book look like? Was Horace still performing his Blue Note hits?

AQ: I prefer not to speak about this, because they were all friends of mine, and this has nothing
to do with who fixes this position the best. I feel we all had something to offer and Horace simply
decided to accept me over everyone else.

Horaces band book always stays the same. We were still doing tunes such as Filthy McNasty,
Senor Blues, Tokyo Blue, Happy Medium and Song for My Father, which we had to play
more than three times a night, as this is what the audience had come for.

AAJ: Horace was a founding member of Art Blakeys Jazz Messengers. Really, one of the
original working models for the whole jazz mentor thing, which is still practiced in various forms
even today. Looking at the list of all the people you shared the bandstand with up to this point, its
easy to forget that at this time you were still very young. Did Horace show you the ropes at all?

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 12 of 21

AQ: Yes, he did show me the ropes. This is what you dont have anymore today. Horace was the
one who showed me how this business of jazz really works. The first thing you were asked was if
you owned a suit, and were you a member of the local 802 union. I was not, so Horace took me
down there personally and had me join the union.

Youd also need a cabaret card, which was a card from the police authorizing you as a musician
to perform in a place that sold alcohol. This law was banned after I became eighteen, so I didnt
really need this card anymore.

Horace Silvers music was the ideal situation in which any young man could get it together, if he
could play. Horace would teach you the complete format of a tune, and most of them were written
with eight or sixteen bar heads, then youd play the bridge and solo off the changes. Most young
people today are trying to compose off that same format that Horace used back in the 60s. This
is how I learnt all about the dynamic behind the soloist and learning how to create something with
the artist.

AAJ: Horace then disbanded the quintet, and you went to George
Bensons band. Hes more known for smooth jazz, but at this time he
was doing something different. What was the sound of this band?
Lonnie Smith was also in the band. Do you find theres more freedom
for a drummer in a group whose front line was organ/guitar, as opposed
to one consisting of horns?

AQ: First I want to clarify that Horace didnt actually disband this group.
What happened was Horace was taking his annual vacation every year
for about 2 months, then hed call up the guys to start rehearsing so he could return to the road
within the fourth month.

I needed a gig during this period, and Id heard the drummer with George Benson was leaving.
Its been such a long time now that I really cant remember how I got the gig, but Ronnie Cuber
was there along with Lonnie Smith, and then after Lonnie left Charles Covington replaced him.

George was also singing back then, but he wasnt then known as a singer. He used to admire
Ronnie Dyson and Little Jimmy Scott during our travels, hearing them whenever possible. On
Georges first album, he sang The Other Side of Abbey Road, which I had the opportunity to
perform with him on the Johnny Carson show.

Theres another album which we did at his studio, with him singing, but which was never
released. Every time I see him we always talk about this record.

People talk about smooth jazz, but back then, this word didnt even exist. It was more of a rhythm
and blues-based commercial form of music to reach the marketing world.

I think the organ confines you more than any other instrument, because its one person doing two
jobs, playing the piano and also the bass line, whereas working with a piano player hed definitely
think differently from the bass player.

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 13 of 21

Favorite Organists

AAJ: You have the distinction of having played with most, if not all, of the modern masters of jazz
organ. To the casual listener, organ is organ, but there is a multitude of stylistic differences. Did
you have a particular favorite to play with?

AQ: Larry Young, I feel, was the John Coltrane of the organ, and you can hear this on some of
the recordings with Tony Williams Lifetime, and also his own record Unity (Blue Note, 1965).

Ive worked with many different organ players, and they all had a different type of conception for
the instrument. It was a pleasure to learn how to deal with this instrument. You must be mindful of
the fact that in ghettos throughout the USA the most popular instrument when I came up was the
Hammond organ--every club had one.

AAJ: At the age of twenty-one (in 1971), you first went to Europe with trumpeter Charles Tolliver.
Before the opportunity arose, did you have any ambition to get there?

AQ: No, I never thought about going to Europe at all, but this opportunity came when Charles
Tolliver proposed it.

Ill tell you about how I met Charles Tolliver.

Hed casually worked and recorded with
Horace Silver. I can remember one night I
was working with Horace at the Club Baron
in Harlem when Charles came by to check
out my playing. I can remember very clearly
because Billy Paul was the opening act for
Horace, and this was when he had a hit with
Bluesette, and he had Sherman Ferguson
on drums, from Philadelphia.

When I finally heard from Charles, I was no

longer a member of Horaces band. I was, at
this time, with the George Benson Trio. I left Georges band to go to Europe with Charles Tolliver
Music Incorporation, and I was the replacement for Jimmy Hopps.

The European Scene

AAJ: I constantly write about the difference in attitude towards jazz in Europe. Was it immediately
apparent to you?

AQ: Yes, definitely. Young musicians had more of chance to say what theyve been trying to say
in America for years. The Europeans were always open to greater things, and they would

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 14 of 21

definitely give you the support needed to stay on your feet to be successful. Most of the guys
from America either came over and spent some time or remain to this day in Europe.

AAJ: You were with Charles Tolliver for only a few months. Were you mainly gigging in Europe at
this time? There was an informal expatriate community of jazz musicians that included such
heavy hitters as Dizzy Reece, Johnny Griffin, Donald Byrd and Larry Young, who used Quai de
Chat Qui Pche (in Paris) as a sort of home base. Did you have a chance to interact with this
loose knit confederation at all?

AQ: Firstly, Id like to inform you I was with Charles Tolliver much longer than six months. Our
relationship was for at least a decade, on and off, and were still the best of friends.

Charles helped me out a lot, and made me the person I am today, and I must confess that if it
werent for Charles Tolliver I wouldnt be in the position Ive enjoyed for the last thirty years. This
guys supported me every step--and still would do if I asked.

The Chat Qui Pche, the River Bop, The Living Room, there were many places that, as you
mention, the expatriates were hanging out. You forgot to mention the Drugstore, which we called
the Green Star, on Blvd. Saint German near the Lippo Restaurant. These were places where you
would go to find out what was happening after arriving in Paris, and asking who was in town
playing.

I first met Maurice Cullaz through Charles Tolliver and Stanley Cowell, then I was introduced to
Kenny Clark, and Klook [Clarkes nickname] and I became the best of friends. He also started
turning me on to different gigs within the Paris area, and Slide Hampton and Art Taylor were also
a part of this community of musicians.

AAJ: You once again answered the call, rejoining Horace Silver for a
five year stint. This was the early 1970s. I think more is known about
Horace during his 1960s Blue Note years. At this point, artistically, what
was he up to? With this group, was it clearly Horace Silverand or
was it a musical democracy?

AQ: At this moment of Horaces life he was working on different

material, and I believe it was Silver n Brass (Blue Note, 1975), and
Silver n Strings [Play the Music of the Spheres] (Blue Note, 1978), a
series of albums.

You must keep in mind that Horace never recorded with his complete quintet during these years.
He was using mostly the Blue Note musicians such as Mickey Roker and Bob Cranshaw. On
record, hed just started to use the musicians he traveled with after I left the band in 1975. Horace
was always clearly Horace--he was simply not about musical democracy.

AAJ: From your return stint in Horace Silvers band you found yourself in Canada acting as
house drummer at Rockheads Paradise [in Montreal]. During the early to mid 1970s, it was a
bleak time for jazz in general. Commercial considerations became part of the equation for most
musicians at the time, with the only other alternative being self-imposed exile in Europe, which

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 15 of 21

many did (Dexter Gordon, Johnny Griffin, Ben Webster, many more). Ultimately you too returned
to Europe. When reading about this time, the amount of talent now living in exile is staggering.
Did this make it harder to get steady gigs?

AQ: No, it didnt. In fact I left the Horace Silver Quintet and returned to Boston, where I lived for
about four months, and then I received a call from a friend of mine telling me that a guy by the
name of Eddie Davis, an organ player, was looking for a drummer. I managed to travel to
Montreal to check this gig out, and when I arrived I found out what the gig was all about: playing
Barry Whites music, which was not my bag at all.

I managed to stay with Eddie Davis for about three weeks, and I met a guy there by the name of
Billy Martin. He had a drummer with him that enjoyed this type of music, so they decided to switch
drummers, which made things much better for me and I made more money. Billy Martin was
playing more jazz, but we were working mostly at very exclusive supper clubs, so I managed to
get myself an apartment on my own. I use to go by Rockheads Paradise every night to sit in
when I got off, because the gig I was doing didnt give you much of a chance to play.

This is when I met Nelson and Ivan Symonds and Nick, the bass player; also Sadik Hakim who
used to work with Charlie Parker. They were all working downstairs and they would have the
American rhythm and blues people come upstairs on the weekends. I started getting other offers
to work with Milt Jackson and many others that came to town.

I decided to leave and return to Europe to do another tour with Charles Tolliver in 1977.

It was never hard for me to get gigs anywhere I lived, because the musicians knew I could play,
so they were very happy to see me. Most of the time Id show up and they would put me to work
right away.

I went back to Europe because the Europeans were doing much more for me than any American
was. I was born and raised in New York, but was never offered any major contract from the
recording labels, and I saw other people coming from other states within the USA and they were
well supported, so thats when I thought this is enough for me, and I left for Europe and built a
whole new life.

AAJ: Was there a general overall mood among the expatriate musical community, happy to be
there or resentful?

AQ: Mostly all the guys I ever met living in Europe were very happy to be there. If you were going
to be resentful the attitude was that it would be better if you go home and do it there.

AAJ: It seems, in general, that the small European record companies enthusiastically recorded
people not generally regarded as leaders Stateside, yet these smaller labels have contributed to
important discographies of artists whose work would otherwise have been buried by time. They
also seem to offer a freer rein to artists with regards to repertoire. Many of these recordings are
rewarding and well worth hunting down. Did you participate in more recordings while over in
Europe?

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 16 of 21

AQ: Yes, I did participate in many recordings in Europe which are
treasures to many American collectors today. I feel America doesnt
support jazz the way the Japanese and Europeans do. Ive done DVD
recordings with Kenny Drew, Randy Brecker, Bob Berg, Clark Terry,
Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Jay McShann, Carrie Smith, George Wein, Wild
Bill Davis, just to name several, and many records.

Most documentaries that are made about jazz musicians use as source
material European television dates from the past.

I feel that my work would definitely have been buried if Id stayed in United States. The
Europeans are getting ready to empty their vaults full of material that I did starting over thirty-five
years ago, right up to now, so America will definitely hear about me loud and clear, and its only
the beginning.

AAJ: Did you find a marked difference in many aspects of recording in Europe as opposed to
Stateside?

AQ: No I dont find a difference in recording anywhere. I think its up to the individual musician to
know what hes looking for, and to have the right people around to help him get it.

AAJ: In the late 1970s you moved to Switzerland, whereas a lot of artists were moving to
Amsterdam and France. What was behind your choosing this country?

AQ: I had met a very nice young lady at the time and she was helping me get back on my feet
after going through so much hell and stress trying to keep up with the American dream.

I decided to get married and to start a different life in Europe, which turned out to be very nice,
and things are definitely looking good for me at the present time. I have studied photography with
Oscar Peterson for the last 2 years, Im getting ready to start playing golf, and financially Im not
worried about anything, so Im happy.

AAJ: There was throughout the 1970s an influx of rock influences to be found in jazz, both subtly
and the more blatant fusion genre which emerged. Did you ever delve into the realm of fusion at
all? Did fusion or what was going on stateside register at all with the tastes of European
audiences?

AQ: You have to remember that whatever happens in America comes to Europe within ten or
fifteen years, and this is what happened to Europe in the late 70s--the same things. I wasnt a
part of this because Id already made my mark within the jazz business over here.

There are a lot of musicians who are still thinking about moving to Europe, but its hard to get
over now because you have European musicians who can play and the business is a little

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 17 of 21

different over here. I saw when all of this fusion stuff started, so I was never interested in being a
part of this in the first place. I left America when jazz was at one of its artistic high points.

Nilva Records/Oscar Peterson/Current Line-Up

AAJ: In 1979 you joined another long tradition of musicians starting their own labels, naming your
Nilva Records. Your roster of artists is impressive (John Hicks, Big John Patton, Junior Mance,
Ray Drummond, James Spaulding and many others). How big a company is Nilva, and how
hands on were you in the companys operations? Where can jazz fans find these records now?

AQ: This was not the musicians company, this was my own company which I had started here in
Europe with the help of my wife. When I first returned to Europe I made so much money within
the first two years I decided to do something with it, and this is how the company started.

I learned a lot from Charles Tolliver and his company Strata East, and I had the same ideal. I
went after all the artists in the New York area that recording companies were not recording, and
thats how I ended up with so many different musicians. They were all friends of mine who Id
worked with in the past.

I made over seventeen recordings for the label, but was never able to get worldwide distribution,
so this, coupled with the worldwide changeover to the compact disc, made things very difficult.
Many of these records have still yet to be converted.

I still have different copies available, and you can also find them at special LP collectors sites on
the internet and in some specialty stores. Im trying to work out a deal now, where you will
definitely see them on the market again as CDs, within the next year or so.

AAJ: You joined Oscar Petersons trio, but also became leader of your
own group, Alvin Queen & The Organics. You seemed to have waited
to front your own group. Did you find playing and touring different,
participating as the leader?

AQ: No, I just thought after some thirty-five years it was time for me to
do for other young musicians what was done for me. I spent 2 years
with Oscar Peterson at the request of my late friend Niels-Henning
Orsted Pedersen, who also arranged for me be a part of the original
Kenny Drew Sr. Trio.

Most of all the people Ive worked with in the past are dead and gone, so I have to try to keep
their legacy alive.

Niels and I used to have our own group together many years ago, and Oscar always loved the
way Niels and I accompanied him during our performances. I dont think being a bandleader will

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 18 of 21

be difficult, because I have a lot of respect for the musicians around me, and I realize that I
couldnt make it without them.

You have to learn how to let them make you now. You did it, and now its important to showcase
them, so that you yourself will continue to live on. Its a chain.

AAJ: Did you aspire to a permanent roster or a revolving cast of musicians for your group? Is
there a preference on your part for either way?

AQ: I feel there are certain people who understand me for what Im trying to say musically, and
they definitely know who they are when theyre accompanying me. I feel I have the best front line
now, with Jesse Davis and Terrell Stafford, really couldnt be any better, and I also have Pete
Bernstein on guitar who really knows what hes doing and hes also such a nice person to work
with.

I knew Mike LeDonne from a tour with Milt Jackson some time ago, but he was playing piano at
the time, so I never knew that he could play organ. When I decided to put this group together for
the recording, I said, Who can I get? and someone mentioned Mike LeDonne. I said Mike
LeDonne is a piano player, so they said Try listening to him on organ, so thats how that
happened, and he really gave me what I needed.

Club Scene

AAJ: There seems to be a resurgence of desire for cities to have small jazz/supper clubs. Places
like New York, L.A, San Francisco and even Toronto are making an effort to showcase local
talent but also important but not as well-known names. In Europe the more well-known players
seem to play the larger festivals and venues, I imagine it is to a certain extent a matter of financial
logistics. For me though, jazz loses a little of its power the bigger the venue. I can enjoy McCoy
Tyner at some enormous festival, but there is more enjoyment and a sense of communion in a
smaller, intimate setting. Do you have a preference for venue size?

AQ: I like small jazz clubs where the musicians dont need all this
electronic equipment like a PA system. Jazz was created in small clubs
where the feeling was like being in someones living room and youve
invited your own guests who love the music.

The first they need to learn is that the original Birdland was a place in
New York that employed people who knew something about the music,
and knew all the musicians whod be coming by, it was not about the
money.

If the club wasnt filled up for the second set, theyd tell the customers to please stay and just pay
for your drinks and enjoy yourself. Now, you go to a club and when a musician shows up to speak
with one of their friends whore playing there, the staff doesnt know who you are and they dont
want to know!

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 19 of 21

I only hope that they send the staff to school, to teach them about jazz musicians before they put
them on the door, because if it wasnt for the musicians producing music, there wouldnt be any
reason for people to go there--just think about that.

Current and Dream Projects

AAJ: What are you currently working on? Where can the fans keep track of your tour dates and
releases?

AQ: Im working on many things, because Im not only a

musician, but Im working within the production world
organizing things for different companies and people. Ive
learned to be independent, and not to depend on anyone
for anything.

If theres something out there that I want, Im going to get

it. I really dont care about not knowing a language, or
learning the currency of a country. Just remember, I
came back to Europe on my own and rebuilt a whole new
life which I wouldnt have done in America, but I had a
greater opportunity in Europe, so I stayed.

Im government supported here in Switzerland, so for the

most part, anything I ask for is given to me. Ill also
receive all kinds of retirement funds when I become old enough to get it, and I have the best
insurance coverage in the world, so what more could I ask for?

AAJ: This is my one stock question, but one whose answers always intrigues me: Do you have
any dream project you have yet to do and what is it?

AQ: My dream project is to give back to the world what has been given to me, and that is to
perform the true and the real form of jazz music, which Ive lived and breathed for the past fifty
years of my life. I was there with the greatest and I definitely wouldnt let them down at this stage
of my life.

Elvin Jones use to say to me all the time, You were definitely fortunate to be there, to be able to
see it with your own eyes. Now put it into action and live it.

Selected Discography

Alvin Queen, I Aint Looking at You, (Enja Records, 2006)

Alvin Queen/Lonnie Smith, Lenox and Seventh (Black and Blue, 2006)
Alvin Queen, Ashanti (Nilva Records. 2002)
Dusko Govkovich, Blues in the Gutter (Diskoton Records, 2002)
Alvin Queen/Jasper Thilo, This is Uncle Al (Music Mecca, 2001)

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 20 of 21

Alvin Queen, Hear Me Drummin' To Ya! (Jazzette, 2000)
Alvin Queen/Stepko Gut, Nishville (Moju, 1998)
Alvin Queen, Im Back (Nilva Records, 1997)
George Coleman, At Yoshis (Evidence Records, 1992)
Kenny Drew, Standard Request Live at Keystone Korner (Alfa Jazz, 1991)
Kenny Drew, Recollections (Alfa Jazz, 1989)
Pharoah Sanders, A Prayer Before Dawn (Evidence Records, 1987)
Niels Lan Doky, Here or There (Storyville Records, 1986)
Alvin Queen, Jamming Uptown (Nilva Records, 1986)
Alvin Queen, A Day In Holland (Sound Hills Records--8057, 1984)
Bill Saxton, Beneath the Surface (Nilva Records, 1984)
Ray Drummond, Susanita (Nilva Records, 1984)
Alvin Queen, Glidin and Stridin (Nilva Records, 1982)
Art Farmer, Round About Midnight (Jugton Records, 1981)
Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Jaws Blues (Enja Records. 1981)
Alvin Queen, In Europe (Nilva Records, 1980)
Charles Tolliver, Impact (Strata East, 1975)
Charles Tolliver, Live at the Loosdrecht Festival (Strata East, 1973)

Photo Credits
Top and Bottom Photos: Jose Manuel Horna
Second Photo: Philippe Haulet
Third Photo: Dragan Tasic

All material copyright 2007 All About Jazz and contributing writers. All rights reserved.

Alvin Queen, All About Jazz Interview Page 21 of 21