RESPONSES TO DANIEL MESAS THESIS ON GOD.

By Derrick Gillespie

Daniel, I have watched several of your online presentations, and so I do have a fair grasp of
your thesis on the issues. I appreciate your desire to continue to learn, and unlearn, and there
are many things we agree on (such as on Jesus being the begotten Son before coming to
earth, as all Trinitarians before the fourth century have always taught; click the link above to
read more from me on that issue). But certainly there are issues you have out of whack, or is
giving an incomplete or restricted message about, and, just as one of your presentations
ironically hinted at about others, there are many things your very own ministry is not telling the
public yet. Let me prove it by quoting you in key areas and then responding.

QUOTE #1:
I do not believe that Jesus is also the one true God. I believe that to be His Father,
and there is clear evidence for this. EGW alwaysas much as I have seenis
consistent in calling Christ the Son, and the Father is called God. Could the Son be called God?
Yes, but not God the Fatherthey are different persons. Daniel Mesa

RESPONSE # 1:
It is plain you DENY that Jesus (a separate person from the Father) as the express image (Heb.
1:3, 8), the exact copy of the Fathers person, or the one perfect photograph of God (EGW) is
to be deemed THE only true God and God himself just like him (hes not just our God. Its
just like the copy of the Bible you hold in your hand is not the original manuscript, but is still
THE Biblethe only true Word of God. Let me remind you therefore how an express image
works:

"Jesus is attractive. He is full of love, mercy, and compassion. He proposes to be our friend, to
walk with us through all the rough pathways of life. He says to us, I [Jesus] AM THE LORD THY
GOD; walk with Me, and I will fill thy path with light. Jesus, the Majesty of heaven, proposes to
elevate to companionship with Himself those who come to Him with their burdens, their
weaknesses, and their cares. ---E.G. White, Lift Him Up, pg. 98

"The redeemed will meet and recognize those whose attention they have directed to the
uplifted Saviour. What blessed converse they have with these souls! "I was a sinner," it will be
said, "without God and without hope in the world, and you came to me, and drew my attention
to the precious Saviour as my only hope. And I believed in Him. I repented of my sins, and was
made to sit together with His saints in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Others will say: "I was a
heathen in heathen lands. You left your friends and comfortable home, and came to teach me
how to find *Jesus and believe in *Him [Jesus] as *THE ONLY TRUE GOD. I demolished my
idols and worshiped God, and now I see Him face to face. I am saved, eternally saved, ever to
behold Him whom I love. I then saw Him only with the eye of faith, but now I see Him as He is. I
can now express my gratitude for His redeeming mercy to Him who loved me and washed me
from my sins in His own blood." ---E.G. White, Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 6, pg. 311

"Enoch was a representative of Christ as surely as was the beloved disciple John. Enoch walked
with God, and he was not, for God took him...That God who walked with Enoch was our Lord
and Saviour, Jesus Christ. He was the light of the world then, just as He is in 1895 [as well as in
*2017]." ----E.G. White, Letter119, 1895
"Seek a thorough preparation to meet *Jesus, that when He appears you may exclaim with
joy, "Lo, this is OUR God; we have waited for him, and he will save us." Isaiah 25:9. Eternal life
will then be yours, and you will be a partaker with Christ of His glory, ever to hear His glorious
approving voice and behold His lovely person." - E.G. White, The Faith I Live By, pgs. 351-352

" It was the Son of God alone who could present an acceptable sacrifice. GOD *HIMSELF
became man, and bore all the wrath that sin had provoked. This problem, How could God be
just and yet the justifier of sinners? baffled all finite intelligence. A divine person alone could
mediate between God and man
---Ellen G. White, Youths Instructor, 31st August 1887, Search the Scriptures

"Jesus Christ is *the Father with us. God is the Father, and there is the link of the chain
brought right down to bind His children in connection with the Father." ---E.G. White, Ms141-
1908

"The second temple was not honored with the cloud of Jehovah's glory, but with the living
presence of One in whom dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily [i.e. Jesus] --who was GOD
*HIMSELF manifest in the flesh [1 Tim. 3:16]. The "Desire of all nations" had indeed come to
His temple when the Man of Nazareth taught and healed in the sacred courts. In the presence
of Christ, and in this only, did the second temple exceed the first in glory." --- E.G. White, Great
Controversy, 1911, pg. 24

"Christ is one with the Father, but Christ and God [the Father] are two distinct personages.
Read the prayer of Christ in the seventeenth chapter of John, and you will find this point clearly
brought out.......the Saviour prayed that his disciples might be one with him as he is one with
the Father. But the unity that is to exist between Christ and his followers does not destroy the
personality of either. They are to be one with him as he is one with the Father. ---RH June 1,
1905, par. 14}

Thus, just like the original Bible manuscripts gave the Bible in your hand all its properties, the
Father from all eternity past gave to Jesus his Son (his Heir) the RIGHT to be deemed all he is
as the one true God, as God himself, as our God, and thus it is certainly true that more
than one SEPARATE divine person is all these things to us, Daniel (just like your copy of the
Bible, and my copy of the Bible is the same Bible in reality to us; matters not the separate
specimens)a matter I see you failing to give the full message in your ministry about as it
concerns the one the true God . For more detail on this issue, see my full treatment of it online
at this link: https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10214245154509095

QUOTE # 2:
We are not to worship the Spirit, but obey, yes. Revelation 5:13 gives an example of
worshipping the Father and Son Also, EGW says, The Father and the Son alone are to be
exalted. YI July 7, 1898, par. 2 Daniel Mesa

RESPONSE # 2:
In response # 1 above, it inherently pointed out how you missed certain realities in and of
themselves, and also it indicated how you missed how the Word should be
understood/interpreted, and here again in the quote above you miss the following realities.
Note carefully:

Christ ALONE is to be exalted . "Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His
own blood," let every eye be directed, and praise from every heart ascend. (Rev. 1:5.)
- E.G. White, Christs Object Lessons, pg. 161

Why is this so? Because, as proven above, Jesus is, both REPRESENTATIVELY as well as in his
own Being ontologically or qualitatively, he is God Himself who became man, he is the only
true God just like the Father, and hence since only One who is our God or who is the true God
should be worshipped, no wonder Christ alone is to be exalted said Mrs. White. But does this
mean that it is Jesus alone in person who is our God? No!! Why because it is more than one
person who are all these things to us, and hence that is why all Three are to be worshipped as
God (not Gods):

"As the saints in the kingdom of God are accepted in the beloved, they hear: Come, ye blessed
of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. And
then the golden harps are touched, and the music flows all through the heavenly host, and they
fall down and worship the Father and the Son *AND the Holy Spirit." ---E.G. White, Manuscript
139, 1906.

Why will the saints bow down and worship the Father, the Son AND the Spirit (which you deny
should be worshipped today)? Because they are all God to us (not Gods), and with the Spirit
being Jesus himself, and with Jesus being God himself or the one true God, just like the Father,
then the united worship given to all Three is logical:

It is not men whom we are to exalt and worship; it is God, the only true and living God, to
whom our worship and reverence are due
E.G. White, Sons and Daughters of God, pg. 58

God ALONE should be exalted. God alone has done it all.

- E.G. White, Testimonies Vol. 2, pg. 52

And thats why here and now TRUE SDAs understand Mrs. Whites message about worshipping,
praying to and serving all Three (proving that they are all our God who has done it all; they are
not our Gods):

"...let us [SDAs] consecrate to Him ["the Lord" or God] all that we are, and all that we have, and
then may we all unite to swell the songs, Praise God, from whom all blessings flow; Praise
him, all creatures here below; Praise him above, ye heavenly host; Praise Father, Son, *AND
Holy Ghost.

---E.G. White, RH January 4, 1881

"You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised
up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of lifeto live a new life. You are born unto
God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest Beings in heaven,
who are able to keep you from falling.... When I feel oppressed and hardly know how to relate
myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies,
and say: You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me,
and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and
bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit
of God upon my mind and character. And this is the prayer that every one of us may offer." ---
E.G. White, Sermons and Talks; Manuscript 95, October 20, 1906.

When we have accepted Christ, and in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy
Spirit have pledged ourselves to serve [i.e. reverence, honor and obey] God, the Father, Christ,
*AND the Holy Spirit --the three dignitaries and powers of heaven--pledge themselves that
every facility shall be given to us if we carry out our baptismal vows to "come out from among
them, and be . . . separate, . . . and touch not the unclean thing. "When we are true to our
vows, He says, "I will receive you"
----E.G. White, Manuscript 85, 1901

I see you struggling, Daniel, to say the Holy Spirit is not a third divine being (only a distinct
personality from Jesus and the Father), but apart from that being literal linguistic fallacy on
your part, since a distinct personality is a separate personal or individual being (as the 1828
Noah Websters Dictionary of American English shows; the very Dictionary Mrs. White would
have used), Mrs. White called all Three the same thingi.e. persons, personalities, and
beings, who were all enlisted (along with the angels) and who gave themselves in the
heavenly courts before Jesus incarnation in order to effect the plan of salvation (see Steps to
Christ page 21, and Counsels on Health, page 222). You can only have a self to give if you
are a personal being. It is a ridiculous notion to have Mrs. White indicating that we must just
serve, worship, and pray to the Holy Spirit as just the BRAIN or MIND, or POWER of Christ, and
not as a living person among THREE divine persons who all deserve to be related to as only
God should be!!

There is so much more I could respond to in order to show you some of what you are NOT
telling the public, but I will simply say one last thing and then leave you to read my eye-opening
findings at the various links I will hereafter supply. You claim in your online presentations that
the Dragon (Lucifer), the Roman First Beast Power and the American False Prophet Power
seen in Revelation chapters 12-13 are literally a Fraudhead counterfeiting the true Godhead
of Jehovah, and yet even in that you seem to have missed certain realities and is inconsistent in
your argumentation. The Dragon, the Beast, and the False Prophet are three SEPARATE
prophetic entities counterfeiting the true group of three living persons of the heavenly
trio, with each described as distinct personality compared to the others, and yet you want to
have the original group just be two personal entities? How can a counterfeit comprising three
separate entities be counterfeiting only two entities or a duo? One wonders!!
Keep in mind that the American False Prophet Power and the previous Roman Beast Power
are separate entities, even if they resemble each other or the latter imaging the former; just
as the Spirit resembles Jesus, and is even called Jesus Himself, yet the Spirit is a distinct
personality from Jesus, just like Jesus resembles the Father, and is even called God himself,
yet Jesus is a distinct personality from the Father. Your hermeneutics lack consistency in this
matter, Daniel. You cant change the rules of linguistics or redefine words to suit your pre-
conceived ideas. Truth is consistent, but you are NOT consistent in some of what you present.
Pity! And you do the same thing, i.e. being inconsistent in using parallelism, when seeking to
explain how Man as a family images the Godhead of Jehovah as a family. See the following link
showing how you misapply or leave incomplete the Humanity Model imaging the Divinity
Model:

https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10212034259358098
In closing let me share several links to details supplied on my Facebook page, all of which have
already addressed much of the areas we differ in:

Links 1a and 1b: General Questions and Answers About Trinity Issues in Adventism:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10214159269642027&set=a.1326983100956.204
9415.1422297221&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10212029659283099

Link 2: How and Why Mrs. White Quoted Trinitarian Authors after 1888:

https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10213602705888281

Link 3: The Best Collection of Pro-Trinity Facts from the SDA Pioneers after 1888:

https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10212186714689386

Link 4: The Most Potent Arguments Proving the Spirit is a real and Separate Person:

https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10212280919004435

Link 5: Real Proof of the SDA Pioneers Accepting and worshipping a Trinity before 1915 (and
gradually changing their own doctrinal Fundamentals to express same):

https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10211936864283282

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211964531534946&set=a.1326983100956.204
9415.1422297221&type=3

Link 6: Why was Jesus the Only Being one with (and participating in the councils of) the
Father?
https://www.facebook.com/derrick.gillespie/posts/10212221520599512

Link 7:
How the Hymnals of the SDA Pioneers Reveal Godhead Doctrinal Changes Before 1915, and
that they first Rejected the Catholic Trinity But later Accepted the Biblical Trinity before 1915:

https://www.scribd.com/document/277806744/SDA-Hymnals-Before-1915-Reveal-Pre-1915-
Trinitarianism-in-Adventism

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