Interview with Eva Jonai-Hava,

Nonviolent Communication trainer

The interview is for the online magazine www.public-republic.com, Bulgaria. Interviewer is

Anelia Kostova-Bozgounova, freelance editor, journalist and illustrator.

1. Can you explain Nonviolent Communication briefly?

I think of NVC as the path of the peaceful warrior - a yoga or martial art of
communication, that supports me in listening and relating to myself and others in a way
that evokes compassion and connection. Through NVC I have become more aware of my
feelings and resources, like autonomy, authenticity and many others. I have become
conscious about making choices and making requests. I have experienced a quality of
connection that opens the heart, and fills it with deep gratitude.

2. How do you define empathy? What does it mean to communicate with empathy?

Empathy is attuning to what is alive in someone's heart. It is the capacity of relating

to our feelings with compassion, yet without getting submerged in them. It is like going
into the sea – whether it is my own “sea of emotions” or someone else's – with the
confidence that I can swim ashore.
Empathy involves joining someone in their experiences without expectations, without
wanting to lead them somewhere or falling into a state of emotional helplessness – just
respecting and trusting both of our inner wisdom and autonomy. What supports me in
keeping my compassion clear of getting involved is the freedom of not taking other
people's experiences and emotions personally, but wholeheartedly holding onto values like
autonomy, trust, confidence, faith, etc.
Albert Camus describes this attitude with these words: “Don't walk behind me; I
may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me, and be my
friend.”

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3. What prevents people from feeling empathy?

What hinders us in listening with empathy is that we tend to lose the awareness of
our borders, and get caught in each other's emotional turbulence. Thus, our habitual
reaction to other people's reality is sympathy or antipathy. Sympathy is saying “yes” to
other people's reactions, and losing our own center. For example if I react to someone's
miserable expressions like this: “Oh, my darling, I am so sad for you. They should have
behaved differently with you.” Or if I get lost in other people's blaming, e.g. “Oh, I am so
sorry, I am so silly, I should have known better.” Antipathy on the other hand, is resisting
the situation, disconnecting from the feelings and having expectations of the other. I am
reacting with antipathy when I say things like - “Stop making a fuss. This is not such a big
thing. You should have known better anyway. It is your fault. When I get in such
situations, I stand up for myself. Your are too weak.” etc.
As individual beings we need to be capable of two different functions. One is to
detach ourselves from our surroundings composing a closed, inner world. The other is to
maintain a continuous connection with the outside world responding to its impacts either
protecting ourselves or assimilating its impulses – and growing from both.
Empathy serves this dual capacity making us unique individuals who are in
interconnection with the outside world. It is the consciousness of saying “yes” to people's
experience, taking part in the emotions, yet at the same time holding the poise of the
witness, and holding the space for the emotions to flow freely. Speaking with empathy
might sound like this, “I hear how painful it is for you, and how much you would have liked
understanding and a different treatment.”
When we respond with sympathy or antipathy the other person either shuts down or
tries to defend him/herself. These reactions do not help any of us in seeing the situation
clearly, and do not nourish our connection either. When we connect in empathy, emotions
like pain and grief are allowed to come up, and we are not alone with it any more. We have
someone who understands and helps us in seeing clearly, integrating what is in our heart
and liberating ourselves.

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4. Do you think that Nonviolent Communication is an easy instrument for reaching
better understanding between people, or are we initially aggressive by nature?

NVC is based on a deep faith in our genuine capacity of compassion. Aggression is

rooted in states of consciousness such as ignorance, pain, fear and helplessness. Some of
us are deeply stuck in the mind-set of misery. Stepping out of these states is liberation we
need to get ready for. We, humans, are going through radical changes these days. When
we are truly fed up with pain and misery, we get ready to let go and make different choices
that liberate us from causing suffering to ourselves and others. At this point we can stop
fighting against aggression (isn't that aggression as well?), and looking deeper beneath
unacceptable behavior we can hear the pain and call for compassion. When we see
vulnerability compassion evolves naturally, and we can use NVC with ease.

5. It seems that NVC can help us overcome aggression, and gives us a path to better
mutual understanding. Is it possible to be in a situation where using the methods of NVC is
impossible?

NVC is a path of inner growth. The key is learning to look at both parties with
compassion – without the preconception of what is “good or right... bad or wrong”. It is
easy to feel compassion for a victim. Yet, NVC gives the tools for turning to what is human
and vulnerable in the aggressor as well. Once I am able to look at the feelings and needs
captured in aggression I have more chance to engage in empathic connection in any
challenging situation. I can learn a lot about myself and others through facing someone on
the aggressive side. I can learn from the “mistakes” I make.
I trust that there is no situation where using NVC is impossible. I might not be able
to address the “aggressor” directly, but even if I do the “empathy work” within – that is
giving empathy to myself first, and then the “aggressor” - my behavior towards them will
be rooted in peace and compassion, and it will have a powerful healing effect on the
situation. I do trust that empathy offered and received is never lost, but many times it
might take time for the seed sown to yield fruit.

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6. When somebody is feeling threatened by aggression, how can he or she have
influence on the other side of the conflict?

This seems to be a rather complex question.

Our traditional reaction to aggression is close to the age-old teaching of “eye for an
eye, tooth for a tooth”. We answer insult with insult, harm with harm. This attitude has led
us to wars across the planet for thousands of years. We live in a period when we are being
urged to find new ways.
Goethe suggests, “Treat people as if they were what they ought to be, and you help
them to become what they are capable of being.” Bert Hellinger, the founder of “family
constellation” or as he sometimes calls it “The order of love”, suggests that what works is
for aggression to be compassionately integrated into the human family with the
understanding that no one can be excluded without difficult consequences. He also
suggests for the aggressive act to be balanced with a restorative action.
NVC is in agreement with all the above, and considers the solution to evolve through
communication. In using NVC we connect with the aggressor through communication. How
do we communicate with someone who is involved in aggression?
Our inherited belief is that we can stand up against something when we are “worked
up”, feeling tense and irritated enough to scream and fight for our needs. NVC has taught
me that I am much more powerful when I am connected to myself, feeling centered, even
if I am passionate about something.
In the midst of life-threatening danger we might experience a state of emptiness,
when movement slows down, and we do the right action spontaneously. Similarly, at a
moment of feeling threatened by aggression we can train ourselves to act from a space of
stillness and clarity within. “Peace begins with me” - teaches Gandhi and many a teachers
of love and wisdom. We can practice the state of inner ease and peace, which creates
space for competent choices preventing and resolving conflicts and challenges.

7. What makes us aggressive? Is anger something bad that we should try to suppress?

We have learnt to punish ourselves and others. Punishment gives rise to punishment
on the other side. If we punish a child he or she will punish back – and as this is multiplied
back and forth, it becomes the keynote not only in the parent-child relationship but
extensively. Anger is a “package” of feelings like frustration, helplessness, pain, fear, etc.

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we have suppressed, not knowing how to express them spontaneously without causing
harm to ourselves and others. Our life energy is stuck in the bonds of anger against
ourselves and others. We can learn to express ourselves so that our life giving energies get
released and transformed into creative, supportive, healing energy.

8. Is it possible by using NVC to avoid or prevent any kind of aggression?

In order to prevent or avoid violence we need someone to be conscious and

steadfast in practicing NVC. Using language skillfully is based on the practice of presence,
focus and ease, which has the power of surprising the aggressor, and stopping him/her
from acting out. In some cases we might need to use force acting fast and stopping violent
action. However after stopping the aggression NVC suggests engaging in communication,
bringing clarity and compassion into the situation.
Compassion and love is powerful in the face of aggression. It might be a challenge to
go into our compassionate state in the midst of chaos, distress and aggression. Slowing
down from the pressure of action, taking time to practice inner focus promotes heart-mind
connection, inner balance and effective communication. The state of balance does not come
all at once, yet with intention and practice, it gets easier and easier to access.

9. You’ve got very rich experience as a trainer. What is the most difficult situation
you’ve been in during the trainings?

Yes, I have very rich experience – through facing challenging situations and making
a lot of eye-opening mistakes. In the past 15 years I have been practicing and teaching
what I have been eager to learn myself. I have grown a lot through overcoming my
habitual urge to “fight or flight”... recognizing when something is painful, and speaking
up... facing my quiet, little judgmental thoughts... and acting on my need for authenticity.
Everyday situations offer plenty of learning. The other day I met with someone
whose words and behavior stimulated judgments in me, like “she is false, untruthful – and
I am missing authenticity”. I said nothing, and we soon said goodbye. I have learnt a lot
about myself afterwards. I realized how my own behavior was lacking authenticity, when I
missed communicating and connecting. Next time I would like to look at her guessing how
she feels and what quality of connection she needs. I hope to engage in intimate mutual
sharing, to create the quality of connection in which we can both be true to ourselves.

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 Another challenging situation I have experienced lately, was when at the very end of
one of my weekend trainings two guests appeared. One of them was an old friend, an NVC
trainer herself. Seeing them I felt inspired and happy to share the closing circle with them,
but a few minutes later I felt somehow awkward. My need for confidentiality and intimacy
of our group seemed unfulfilled. Usually this kind of situation might offer a wonderful
chance for listening to everyone speaking their truth, and either unanimously integrating
the newcomers into the group or standing up for the integrity of the group, and asking the
guests if they would rejoin us at a later point of our group process. In this situation I felt
the pressure to finish the course on time, and I was only ready to listen to the ones who
felt annoyed by the presence of the guests. Eventually, our guests agreed to wait outside,
and rejoin us at the end of our closing circle. I felt satisfied by what seemed to be another
lesson for the group regarding protecting our space in a nonviolent way. But as soon as the
guests left there was a powerful voice speaking up on behalf of those who had felt in
harmony with the presence of the guests. And there I was, feeling torn and sad, realizing
that I would have liked to go with the flow, giving space to everyone, and following rather
than leading the group process. My decision might have been “right” from one aspect, yet
it missed including everyone and achieving a creative solution in harmony with all. It was a
powerful lesson for me and the group to slow down whatever the weather, and give space
to everyone involved. One of the gifts of the situation is the gratitude I feel for having
people around who remind me, so we can learn from the mistakes we make. And I am also
happy about the ease and openness I have developed to receive this kind teaching, even in
the position of the trainer.

10. You are using different methods and techniques to help people extend their inner
limits. Can you give us an example about how this works?

In my previous profession I was involved with teaching language in a multi-sensory

way, activating a wide range of our potentials. In the past 5-6 years I have enjoyed
studying various disciplines and approches, for example bodywork, psychodrama, family
constellation developed by Bert Hellinger and “The Work” by Byron Katie. I enjoy finding
out what is common in different approaches and methods, and finding ways to integrate
them. When I introduce bodywork exercises in my trainings I am intrigued to explore
connection between our conscious verbal and instinctive physical communication. Learning
tends to anchor deeper when we experience it with the whole body. Similarly from time to

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time I suggest expressing ourselves with our hands – drawing, painting, cutting, shaping.
For some people expressing themselves with their hands is an inspiring experience.
Sometimes I might use elements I have learnt in psychodrama, for example changing
roles. This helps us in experiencing the power of empathy by “stepping into other people's
shoes”. I also rely on “The Work” developed by Byron Katie. This self-examination process
helps to relieve ourselves from expectations, and to take full responsibility for how we
ourselves affect a situation. At the beginning of a training I might mention Rupert
Sheldrake's research on what he calls the “morphogenetic field” (According to Rupert
Sheldrake, “morphogenetic field” is equivalent to an electromagnetic field that carries
information which is available throughout time and space without any loss of intensity.)
The significance of this information in training NVC is that it can have a catalyzing effect on
our daily life when we let go of the preconception that a certain situation “is hopeless and
unresolvable”, and we are willing to explore how it can be solved. I encourage the
participants to use the training as a chance not only for learning about NVC but actually
starting to create a new life for themselves.

11. I guess that the most common criticism of this method (NVC) is that since human
beings are emotional and always in a hurry, we may not be able to control the way we
speak all the time. Or can we?

In our daily life we tend to get lost in the emotions, and act in a hurry from a very
disturbed mind-set creating situations we regret afterwards. With the regular practice of
NVC first we can train ourselves to “clean up the mess” we have created. That is, we can
search within to find what went wrong, what quality of connection we would really like, and
how we would like to act to resolve the situation. Perhaps we can share this with someone
who can support our clarity, and eventually we can share it with the person we have been
in conflict with.
With inner training we remember to keep quiet in situations when we cannot speak
peace, and work through our emotional confusion individually. With growing inner focus
and ease we can learn to speak in congruence with our values in challenging situations.
When we learn a new language we carefully control the way we utter the words.
Similarly, when we train ourselves to use the language of compassion we tend to monitor
how we express ourselves. With time and practice technique and language becomes
secondary, what matters is inner peace, the readiness to express ourselves honestly, the

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willingness to listen with compassion – the attitude we have distilled from our inner
training.

12. What kind of results can we expect after developing skills for Nonviolent
Communication? Are there some “side effects”?

When we start learning NVC, we usually wish and expect to talk “perfectly” right
away. However, with the depth of experience lacking behind the technique people will
usually disapprove and challenge our “new way of talking”. I find that it is best to keep
quiet about our NVC studies, and protect it – very much like a pregnant woman protects
the baby in her womb. The image is very appropriate, as life's cycles include periods of
incubation – winter, night, the life of a seed in the earth, a foetus in the womb, etc. A skill
takes time to evolve.
In time we learn to keep quiet when words hurt, to ask for time out when we need
to withdraw, and process a difficult or painful situation by ourselves. We are able to
confront our own thinking, and realize how destructive judgments and expectations of
others are. We realize that we cannot change others but ourselves, which is both a
humbling and empowering realization! We develop autonomy, and it is easier to say “no”
when we mean “no”, and “yes” when we mean “yes”. We develop the courage and
authenticity to stay open and awake to our feelings in the midst of confusion and pain. We
develop trust and confidence in pulling ourselves out of depression or anger with the
capacity of turning around and seeing the beauty of our values. We develop gratitude for
what is alive in us and others. Understanding ourselves more and more we develop
compassion for others, even if they say things and behave in ways we do not like. We
develop the capacity to connect intimately to ourselves and others, and experience
moments of peace and wonder.

13. Marshal Rosenberg is saying (in his book about NVC at school) that NVC is working
well, but it should not only be used in isolated communities, because it will make children
incapable of living by the standards of the competitive, dog-eat-dog world around them. Is
it possible to live in a world of empathy rather than a world of aggression and competition,
or is this just Utopia?

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 We live in a changing world, we create our world moment by moment, sentence by
sentence. What may seem to be Utopia today becomes reality tomorrow. I believe in the
power of our consciousness, compassion and intent.

14. Who is more interested in NVC – people who can’t control their own feelings or
people who need to protect themselves better?

I believe people who are ready to take responsibility for their lives, and put energy
into continuous learning and growth.

15. Is there a person who is not persuadable/manageable with the methods of the
Nonviolent Communication?

Yes, there are people who are not yet open to NVC. And there is a growing number
of people who feel an inner nudge to have meaningful connections and live
compassionately. A lot depends on people who are already involved in practicing NVC. I am
grateful when people feel encouraged by our way of living. I find that NVC is contagious.

16. Do you use the NVC method in your everyday life, in your family?

Yes, NVC is an integral part of our life. I have changed a lot since I have discovered
NVC, and so has my family. It does not mean that we have no conflicts. I believe, conflict
is part of life, part of learning and growing. It can sometimes be painful too. But with a
steady intent of connecting, taking responsibility for ourselves, and turning to each other
with compassion our connection is alive and intimate.
Some six years ago my daughter said, “I will only join your trainings if I see you
change. A few months later she joined my “co-trainer” training, and now she also teaches
NVC. My middle son and daughter-in-law also run NVC practice groups. My younger son is
also involved. And I am grateful for the wonderful changes in my relationship with my
mother.
The more I love myself the more beautiful my relationships are.

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17. What can you say to people who are skeptic about the NVC? What can you say to
people for whom the personal, material success at all costs is more important than living
life in harmony, trust and better communication?

People who have doubts about NVC, people who live with primary interest in
material success might have their good reason. They probably have their own history in
living as they do. Many times their objection is based on some experience that turns them
away from NVC. When I meet them I am interested in hearing what they have to say, and
listening to what feelings and needs are alive in them. If they are interested in the feelings
and values that are alive in me I am be happy to share it with them. Hearing each other
might be valuable and inspiring for both of us.

Thank you for the interview.

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