when I go to high tech there's always kind of or indeed type programs but when we talk about

slender columns to the

National Science Foundation
unfortunately, I don't think it's sexy do
you think we already know how to build
high rises we know how to do everything
why would I find research in this area
so I really appreciate the support we
have the concrete foundation ooh you are
so thank you very much concrete Research
Council which is through the ACA
foundation they also contributed the
concrete reinforcing steel instituted
Mike moto is very instrumental also
making connections here with C I am and
then also the precast pre-stressed
concrete suit because it turns out
slender clubs are commonly used in
pre-stressed concrete but the provisions
are non-existent the code really doesn't
address pre-stress so they were
interested in that aspect so let me talk
a little bit and I know we have a very
group of different backgrounds here so
hopefully I can delve into some details
but also give you a kind of an overall
perspective if you're not a structural
engineer columns when we generally talk
especially at an undergrad level we talk
about really these short columns or
stocky codes because we don't have to
worry about one major thing called

slenderness our second order effects the

second order effect is additional forces

that develop because of the bending of

that member so in a first art we just

look at actually the forces on this

member but what second order we have to

consider the fact that it's bending and

that bending is going to cause extra

forces so this goes back to a guy named

Euler that was looking at buckling and

equations actually elastically were very

simple last a very simple they're not

that that difficult to really comprehend

like this complex for sums that had a

tie in there the students persona is how

you get PI inside of an equation but

when I look at this the problem with

concrete steel it's much easier because

there's an easy that I work with but in

concrete we have cracking and a modulus

that's not as consistent and constant so

because of this we also pick up

something called creep and creep will

have second-order effects so I don't

have that age

would steal where I'm shortening as I go

so those are some of the complex pieces

and one other things to mention by

cracky it's not just uniform cracking

where there's higher forces you get

increased cracking and decreased

cracking in other locations so there's

varied amounts of cracking throughout

the number and then what's happening

right now is new materials and this is

not just something happened today I mean

we're looking at high strength

concrete's concrete's that are

approaching, rarely used in

construction approaching in some

markets so now what higher strength we

can decrease the size of the column and

then we go into the steel and I saw we

got some Heisman steel folks in the

audience great hundreds I worked with

panko Foundation and we're trying to

look at how we use great hunters maybe

ksi and when we do those type

materials that can also shrink the size

of these columns and have more legible

storage for developers things like that

so there's definitely some interest in

this area now it depends on the part of

the country I meant here I think you

have more interest in slender columns

when I go to California they're like

well it's seismic I'm really not so

interested in you know the slenderness

aspect but let's look at a typical

column behavior so this is kind of

classroom where I'm looking at the axial

load on this vertical axis and I'm

looking at how much bending moment is on

the horizontal so we typically in a code

type fashion we develop this interaction

curve for axial load and this is the

column capacity at nominal strength so

what it could actually take if I have a

short column and I would load it up and

so if I start here zero load and I

started loading it as I load if I have

some moment on there it's going to

literally increase and I get this

straight line until I hit capacity and

that's what we teach in an introductory

structural concrete class to students I

want to stay inside of this range

because outside it will fail inside I'm

good as I continue to increase because

of the bending it is second order

effects and it produces more moment than

what I have for the same load so if I'm

at this load level

to have an increased amount of moment ID

to exist what that results is ultimately

when I hit the curb I'm going to hit it

lower and I have a reduced capacity

because of the slenderness the capacity

to conquer is still the same it's a

matter of I actually have increased a

moment I have to resist so one other

column though is that would be great I'm

just loading up but we often bring loads

up to a certain value and sustain them

for many years and so that's just

sustained load effect if it came over

here and sustained and hit the curve

that's often known as creep buckling we

don't want them in our buildings where I

might a load and all of a sudden it just

over time continues do deflect it and

then it fails so normally we're going to

have it where we want to stop it at some

point these safe inside and that means

there's some residual capacity once I

which actually loaded so if I had some

additional loads on topping to get there

let me talk a little bit about design

and ACI allows three different

methods of design for these slender

columns there is non linear second order

analysis is the most complex and

actually if you look at the code and I I

work out you know I've been on the code

for a while

is a complete new revision and

has that I'm gonna reference right now

because I know a lot of places are still

using the older code so I'm not going to

let the in terms of numbers and now

we'll talk about with hands but I

love to read the provision about this to

our my students because it tells you an

air as an engineer you have to account

for everything some of the foundation

creep and shrinkage and it's kind of my

favorite passage if you can do that you

can do anything right it's just one code

provision actually was written by Jack

screening of Jim McGregor back in the

Building Code they actually were

thinking about this back in they said

and I was taught by Jack spring at

University of Texas Austin he said you

know we sell computers coming in we knew

we could do that in a few years

well here we are today and it's

questionable whether we can fully do

that although there are some tools out

there to do much better on the nonlinear

second order analysis the lasting second

order analysis the computer firms are

there that's what's rarely being done

today in the office and then there's a

moment magnification procedures where I

do an elastic analysis I take a

magnifier to game

moment so if I get global second-order

in a frame I get a deflection laterally

here and this is the big P Delta P big

Delta so we gave second-order effects

from that sway of the frame elastic

second order analysis picks that up to

the rate right you can look most

programs have bolted up now you can put

a checkbox on some that will run that

and so you get those forces the program

is giving you the forces at the end of

the member so I'm going to pick up

whatever that second respective the

problem is these programs don't pick up

the peel it'll delta which is

magnification occurs between the ends if

you look at snap two thousand or one of

these programs and you read their manual

they're going to tell you the best way

to do it in which they stack coats on

you do use the moment magnification

procedure because what happens is if you

want to do this otherwise you need to

put some notes in between the ends of

all your columns also the EEI the

viewers recommended by the code to use

is different I than the overall frames

so the P little Delta is really still a

hand procedure that needs to be done

here and so this is do is reduce

computational cost obviously if you're

not having to put notes everywhere let

me talk about this procedure it's based

on elastic stability analysis Timoshenko

if you go back and look at some of that

in this is very classical type work

general method that we're going to talk

about was in the code today has remained

unchanged it turns out that's a great

method I mean that's how it works if

there's a simple equation that's

listening at small deflection theory it

doesn't mean that they're that small but

small deflections it assumes a shape of

sine waves or the deflected shape and it

actually hits

unless you're right near the bucketload

the answers perfectly I mean they're

they're very good so it's a challenge

airy and we take the moment that we get

out of the analysis and we're gonna

amplify with this magnifier Delta non

sway so I'm looking between the ends as

the non sway multipliers the sway month

apart if you are looking at that is only

at the end this multiplier classically

it's over minus P over P critical

look a little different here cease again

is if I have different moments at the

end it's just giving me a uniform moment

that I use it to my
equation and then the code puts a / a

fee factor if you will on stiffness

because if the columns not built exactly

right this business would be lower we

want to make sure we're safe here

and when we're looking at the total

buckling load that the column can but

this little one over minus P over P

critical it's actually a very simple

equation to magnify with and that thing

is darn good I mean if you go up and

look at it when you're about

percent from the buckling load that's

where it starts diverging from the

theoretical solution but for where we're

needing a design it's almost perfect

this relies though as I mentioned

earlier on the e I was the e I and for

concrete if I'm steel it's easy if I'm

concrete the problem is with the e right

I use an equation like reared up

crime scene I you know I could use gross

I I could use you know what what do I

use because it's gonna be very cracking

throughout the length

so the coup would actually going back

there was some great plot into this they

have a provision that says it's point to

e I gross so make it simple for

designers and then there was something

to count for how much steel you have in

a section so it's the I of that steel

times its e are you can just use . VI

and so most people I know just go to

this because that's really simpler than

have any calculate you don't even know

the steel when you're starting design in

this section so e I go to town with it

so that's traditionally what's used if

you look at how these do this is the

theoretical AI relevant to the e I from

the equation so if you go to the

theoretical you'll notice here depend on

the axial load level they're showing a

% in an percent column those are the

bounds of what the code allows one

percent minimum weight percent max so as

i'm looking here it says this equation

at percent actually does really good I

mean it's almost perfect but if I'm

actually at percent I use may be off

by a factor two here now interesting the

scales noticing just came out of the

paper that was originally done on this

you'll see this a I if I'm percent

with this one it actually works really

good from Atrus

there's a huge hand and it's off bubbly

that's this is one to five I mean so the

range there is quite large so we're not

looking side to side comparison on scale

so we know they're not that accurate but

it's safe right point four is going to

be a safe value that was based upon to

work so there was a new equation that

was came out of essentially a test group

SK go she does some work that was

sponsored by PCA and there is a kutia

there's a ghost equation that was

developed and this says well I could ask

to make the EIS better buy these buy

this which takes in how much steel I

have and how much eccentricities moment

I axial load and it'll do the job for

you the negative sign is obviously it's

fairly complex right so I don't know

anyone using this equation I don't know

anyone the audience using that I see one

all right point point tolerance it's a

nice place number right so long term

columns difference so that's discharge

nur and that's the ER but then we have

to account for creep so that's the

second aspect here so we have this

sustained load ratio so the way the code

does is this e I over plus a beta DNS

so basically we take an e I divided by

some fraction so we're gonna cut it down

like if I call this one that's gonna cut

it % so I get a % GI so the code

doesn't right now by saying is P you

sustain relative to the total PU that's

on the column and you know that that's

the ratio it was interesting if you go

back to original work this wasn't based

on axial it was based upon the sustained

moment it wasn't this sustained axial

load and I actually asked Jack and then

well why don't we know where did that

change because we can't find a paper and

they said well it was easier for people

to use the P than we thought it was

close enough it kind of relates and so

that's kind of it just happened so if

there's not as much on it now also it's

very interesting to sustain this

sustained load effect it's based upon

very limited experimental test there are

only tests from the

sixties that that's based upon so I

think what's funny is I'm gonna code

committee right now for us to get

anything in the code now and there's any

quiz you want to pull out me and where's

the proof we've got to pull us out or we

don't where's all of the tests the

background or points not new this is you

know so slender columns that are a major

elements of a building yet goes based

upon eleven tests and these things were

like two inch by two inch and you know

four inch maximum size column so to it

is pretty interesting this equation is

not really considered creeped because

creep is a function of the age of it

which the stress limit column so one

other thing is interest in oh wait a

lemon on the second order effects came

in and said that now we can only have

forty percent extra second order effect

so if you have more moment developing

one point four or higher you're not

allowed to design that you have to go

back okay that was based upon this task

group to really does the goal of that

was to devise for global stability that

kind of ties back to the IBC that

there's an equation in there about

lateral stability we were getting rid of

stability check so putting this in

indirectly to stability check on

collateral the problem is it's also

implemented anon swag and so do you need

it because you know now there was no

limit in the past and actually designs

actually if you go look at like PCA

notes examples in there don't work

anymore because they were using higher

than one point four in on its way so

design that would have worked in the

past eight now they wouldn't meet the

code one is it really improve that

behavior understand no one had really

looked at winter columns anymore since

really that time back in the seventies

looking at both short-term and long-term

effects and then we wanted to develop

some maybe improve design procedures for

the moment math education pursue so

we're looking in the nonce way because

this is where we really need to have

this this benefit and address this

living on second order do we need it do

we not and then like I mentioned from

PCI they were very certain to

pre-stressed columns I'm not going to

focus to talk today on the pre-stress

just because of

the time here will focus on the caster's

placement suction it then increase the

efficiency of concrete colleges because

you know what we want to use these and

either maintain reliability but on the

other side remove barriers before

cutting our AI in fact de-ice can go

down only point to e right because I

might take that and cut by two and so

when I do that I'm down the point to e

aí and that may be really over

penalizing where I have to have much

work are called anyway that I really

need for the behavior so first phases we

went analytically and so the first phase

of the study said let's develop a model

and evaluate this because this is just

bending and actually a little bit to be

able to do that so we looked at the

stress-strain for concrete using the

regular harmless dead relationship if we

go to high strength we may use a little

different but Thomas didn't works

actually very well for even for higher

strength materials it is elastic plastic

very simple we're looking at grade

was the focus of this work using moment

curvature standard analysis procedure

and then we use a moment area to

actually calculate deflections so

nothing we you know trying to fit curves

and just a couple of let's use basic

assumptions see what we can do so let me

just show you what we can do so this is

the nominal capacity we generate that

and this is the experimental curve so it

comes up load you see the second-order

feeling me know section order effects

would just be a straight line up but

second-order effects come over and nice

you know the capacity was predicted

conservative by the code so that's good

that this is where it feels outside of

that curve this is what our analysis can

do so just using those regular

assumptions we can follow that curve and

predict it very well here's another test

again outside if you look this one's red

with the lighting you may not see but it

falls right on top of the analysis

here's another one tested it feel right

of the curve we actually get from

following analysis so using very simple

moment curvature relationships we can

predict the behavior this is short-term

effect so we estimated the failure load

what moment relationships works out we

can do that we did estimate with high

eccentricities so there's quite a bit of

bending on those columns a little more

accurately than when we had very high

with very little moment we were maybe a

little more divergent and you can see

that actually back here I'm a little

divergent here these were almost getting

right on top of the curve we estimated

frame behavior there were some frame

cuts than there were you estimated that

well and then we really accounted for

all parameters I didn't care what the

variation was concrete strand

eccentricity we could predict that so

that means our analysis tool works

pretty well it's again not a contrived

method it's just using basic mechanics

now what we wanted to do though I mean

we could do that right this is almost

package that you could do you know you

can do that yourself we don't have to

write the package you can just analyze

it but we want to look if we could come

at Sun that would be a code expression a

little simpler so we looked at the

influence of all the parameters and

stiffness and we wanted to call like an

effective stiffness realize the

variation of cracking is different

everywhere throughout that column so we

need to come up with one common di that

represents the entire column and that's

the challenge so we back calculate if

any I would need to be to work we

started with just a control column that

we would vary all kind of parameters and

take a look so this was just for the

analysis so we start with a twelve by

twelve and then we've ramped it up to

all different sizes but we had a basic

control column psi per sandwich

with either minimum stiffness you would

ever provide a kale or a so it's not

a little since Len they're not very

slender ksi feel and we start out

with % eccentricity on their column so

now we're gonna do is push it in all

types of directions okay so basically

the e I relative to the gross CI as I

load this thing and so this would be

very low eccentricity on it not much

bending it starts to get softer as you

approach the total load or the squashed

load of the column p would be the total

capacity of that column without any

slenderness effects okay so it's like

almost %

but that's including the steel and

everything was the total squashed load

of the column so you can see this it's a

little bit of a curve but we can

represent that with a very simple line

across here and predict the stiffness at

any axial load level so from to

percent now I don't know how many people

are designing out here I don't think

many of you are because you can't hardly

speak that steel in the column right you

know eight percent physically it just

doesn't fit

you got to definitely use couplers if

you're going to do something like that

you don't splice anything so between one

and four percent is really where we're

most interested but you know we looked

at the whole range so it turns out with

the amount of steel would actually have

you're seeing a range here that's

happening this is because we're looking

all the way from low axial loads all the

way to very high so at the high or low

actually look we're hearing as max you

look those up we may have a little bit

of reduced stiffness but we're picking

this up across here and so this little

line could represent how much do you

have in a column again from one to four

I'm looking here I can call it one I

mean I don't need to even use a line I

can call it one and there's no variation

if we want to counter weaken the

eccentricities another animal because as

I have more bending there's going to be

more cracking on the column and there's

more variation because if I have bending

and a lot of axial load I don't crack as

much but if I have low absolute limit

and bending I can get more cracking and

what's very interesting here is if you

take a look at it here up to about an

x-intercept of ten percent you find out

that there's really no effect of the

eccentricity as I'm coming into this

zone I actually have a decrease and you

see a big scatter rings about % and

that's where I'm looking at whether I

actually have high axial loads in the

column versus low axial loads in the

comments going to change how much

cracking is occurring within that extent

of the column and finally when I get out

in these high eccentricities percent

or higher the thing is fully cracked

everywhere in the columns crack so it

doesn't matter how much axial load you

have you've got all of that cracked I to

work with so we found we could

present this in this dual bed and raise

uncracked we don't worry about the

eccentricity up to ten percent and then

if you weren't getting some higher

eccentricities we could come down this

transition zone represented and then

ultimately fully cracked for analysis so

I'm gonna say for analysis first so if I

really wanted good what's the best thing

I could get at you I would throw up this

equation so less than % eccentricity I

have a term for the axial load I have a

go here for the Ilana steel and I can

predict the e I greater than want to

have to add another term because I'm now

gonna have to account for the

eccentricity again as I mentioned this

term here I can get rid of that I can

call it and say don't worry about how

much Solomon steel I have so we did that

and also going back this p was the

Squatch load of the column that's how

much concrete can take plus the steel

but I don't even know I'm still not

sticking a column to start with I'm

designing so for design we wanted to

actually base it upon % AG F times P

so forget the steel and face that p if

you will and that when we did that and

actually just tweak these coefficients a

little to make that work properly and it

creates a very simple equation so if I'm

lower than % eccentricity this would

represent the e I of that column and

again if I have higher have to take any

edge electricity in the account this is

really improved accuracy it maintains

conservative results we basically be

conservative we use only original design

values again as I mentioned we're trying

to I have to think about we don't we

don't know how much steel he gets in it

so you know i if i'm analyzing that's

one thing but if i'm actually trying to

design i want something i don't have to

know what the column is to start with

except for obviously the brute size I'm

going to try a size and see if it works

and then as I just

we conservatively ignore that

reinforcement ratio so analytically let

me say it now once we had this figured

out we know we can predict with our

Anna's analysis model any column in the

world because we fully could analyze

that we looked at different columns

all the way from % we looked at

inch to inch square columns we were

focus on the square here and we looked

at hundred ratios to crazy I mean

really slender type columns we hit

lowest scenarios we started at point

of the axial of P Zero the actual

capacity to come and take it all the way

up to failure we also looked at

eccentricities all the way from the five

to fifty percent fifty percent things of

being I mean it's huge its movement this

was twenty thousand data points we ran

thousand essentially columns and

simulated those tests what I'm going to

show you is how well ACI here does here

versus what our design equation does so

the point four just to give you an idea

so this is what we do with this equation

so this one anything water hires

conservative so this is how much moment

that actually is developing versus with

the analytical model is saying so from

below one which I have just a couple

points here would say I'm I'm

conservative with this approach ACI

which is the point four II I that's

what it does there's the red so I think

you can see it we bring a little bit of

complexity I mean it's not point four

right but we account for what E is

actually in the column and we can

predict it very well and it is a very

safe procedure we have greater than two

on some of these and that makes sense

because I showed you before that it

wasn't meant to be a perfect equation

now if we look at this compared to the

one that is getting to code this is that

complex equation so again there's us and

there's them actually their equations

pretty good the problem with theirs it

turns out there's actually much more

unconservative equate columns that can

resolve it over predicts the e I in some

instances it depends on the column so we

don't like that to continue using

because it

and conservative but I have another

issue with it we'll talk about that so

analytically there are three primary

parameters on these columns

it's the axial load the eccentricities -

and I put lo as the reinforcement ratio

it has some effect but you know we can

just forget about it I mean for one to

four percent columns which is I think

the bread and butter I don't need to

worry about that the simple equations

they'll are conservative so both ways

using the code are clearly fine so don't

have any concerns about continued use

but they are inaccurate the HDI and

complex equation as I just mentioned is

accurate I mean that thinks pretty darn

good but there are unconservative

results that develop it so we are going

to kind of reconsider this use in a sky

the proposed design equation is

conservative and yet we think fairly

accurate so if you lose the you know a

little bit of accuracy but I think it

really tells the story of what's going

on his columns so the final phase of the

project next was the phase two is

experimental we only had a certain

number of columns the base our

analytical off of because there was not

a lot of columns out there so we wanted

to test more than it tested the bounds

and so this is our lives though we have

steel plates here we have rods here we

can lock them down sustain the load you

want to look at sustained load effects

also so we maintain idealized conditions

to make it simple to compare we looked

at non sway this is a picture of the

frame with the loading jacks here that

we load and we watch the knife standard

of sustained load we measured the

displacement at the mid-span

so it's a fairly simple loading we have

pin and ends so we can put exactly the

eccentricity in for this we wanted to

compare to actual analysis so we made

the two ends exam eccentricities we know

the C sub M that's in the code works

well that that's been validated we

wanted to understand the second-order

and then we get present just mentioned

that
eccentricity at the end the parameters

these columns are & by &

and so you might say well those are kind

of small compared to what we're building

well unfortunately below the field these

things build quite high and so you're

often limited to that and how long the

columns going to be in the lab and

you'll see some of these are fairly long

so it would be nice to do bigger is just

how many millions of pounds we have to

put on them to fail them this is a scale

higher than what was done before them so

we thought that the least these were

realistic slender ratios you'll

see some of this l / H ratio here

those two concrete strength we went with

, and be kind of not at the high

strength range but also not just ,

regular because we could build in some

of these that they were looking a little

higher strength material we went with

. and . to bracket the lower and

when we fought is more of a higher range

and eccentricities of and % so we

think it's pretty practical here's some

images of the lab and we're casting them

so these are the different columns and

you can see some of course you can see

this relative this cylinder there to get

a little bit of sense of scale there and

they're reasonably sized and then we

have our ties so here's an advantage

there before

you'll also notice we did some short

columns tube we calibrated some of our

creep and shrinkage that's occurring

relatives of short columns that didn't

have second order effects and here's one

of the columns and this one is under

sustained load at this and you can see

that displacement you probably don't

want that in your building right or it

could be interesting that's our thing in

a column on short term results so we

loaded these up this is axial load

versus deflection so you can see that

load coming up you see the second-order

effect these are just different ratios

so these were all number more tests

that we get so I've been about three

% this is the ratio Gilmore four to

either the s and then % eccentricity

you can see how eccentricity plays a

big role high drops down the capacity of

the obviously slender means you're

going to actually have much higher

moments on these things and so it in the

deflection zone let's just look at the

design equations I just mentioned before

this is the nominal strength curve this

is the design strength so this is where

a tasty I would bring us in with our fee

factors the safety experimental results

we're looking good I mean in all cases

our tests fail beyond what a CI would

allow you for design tests nominal okay

there's our computational model so when

I say the model again there is no

calibration in this model this thing is

just plugging in a root of primes see

it's plugging in you know if I'm instead

stress-strain curve we didn't week

anything to make it fit is just using

regular mechanics and we can predict the

second-order effects short-term loads

perfectly I mean it's just it was

uncanny how well these things can

predict the analysis equation I

mentioned that one this is a simplified

equation that we developed that's how

well that does if we were to use that as

our AI and then a design I would see we

were conservative right we put down that

and so it still does reasonably well

because actually we're not really

worried about predicting out at nominal

we're designing here the PU is what

we're trying to get it and all of them

do pretty darn well right around that

level and there's . yeah just for

comparison so you know I mean again it's

a conservative I mean I I take nothing

away when they came up with what to

do here I mean that's not a bad number

and there's the comparison so we

compared all these things just trying to

understand

we actually had forty three columns

additional what we've looked at before

from our studies so Ryan Jenkins was my

student Penn State undergrad he came to

us he actually was like their top

student at Penn State at a four oh there

came to us at Purdue he had a four Oh

through his master's with me and his PhD

so he's a stellar guy he's living

right now just wrapped up his PhD on

this project and avoiding Rania did some

ksi concrete columns so we like that

to look at that so here's our range from

a low of and I wrote s - s that

were employed Iranian we had all kind of

range of Caleb roars and that and so

statistically and I'm going to jump down

to design strength okay which maybe

you're interested in design strength

levels you can see that our proposed

equation gave very accurate the

standard deviations . so it looks

pretty good you can look at comparison

to promise kunti I mentioned that's in

the code

they kept even nominal and design

they're a little unconservative and so

we don't like that one conservative

nature and then you can see how the

other ones do actually the point for

standard deviation is not too bad but

really here compared to even could see

our standard deviation is actually

better so you know we feel confident

that short term we we got in I mean this

is a great equation to use so they do

provide safe lower bounds the kutia I

think again should unconservative we're

not that convinced with use of that

furthermore the equations that we have

are more accurate and I think those are

good to move forward with long term test

whole other animal because I'm

sustaining a creep you know there's

shrinkage going on to to interplays we

looked at all these different loading

parameters each one's okay so we had a

point one and a point two five and the

Yi over H we did two slenderness ratios

of forty and seven so seven is pretty

pretty slender we've loaded for a

hundred days so base for sustained for a

hundred day loads which actually is more

than what was originally done the

original ones are about some days or

so

so we sustain fairly long here applied

not normalized limits relative to the

squashed load again the p zero total

load you'll see here we had some

different ratios so we went about

percent here at the ratio and

percent would hire the higher moment I

can't

as much and also the we really can't

put much actually load on these things

you have to lower that load a lot that

we can sustain under and so there's

where our sustain levels and so what you

see is a curve like this this is the

axial load versus deflection at mid span

you bring it up to the sustained load

level and you sustain so as you're

sustaining the load stays the same but

the deflections are going to increase on

you over time and you can see how much

the deflection increase so here Kayle

over it was three times again a it

was a three time deflection increase

watched is sitting there for a hundred

days this one at seventy four and a half

time deflection and at . so we take

that we can convert that to moment so

you can put it on a plot that you're

used to seeing interesting enough the

deflections look much higher but when

you convert the moment it turns out that

they're not as significant two jumps

they're . and then is and . and so

you'll see the moment changes not

because you have a first-order

deflection and it's look at the

second-order change okay so you'll see

again they all fail even after sustained

loading beyond the nominal strength

which is great I mean that's what we

want to see but what we're trying to do

is predict this and it turns out I mean

it is much more complicated than I first

thought when we got into it we can come

up this line to here perfectly the

question is how to predict overtime with

that sustained load this extra and then

from there reload it again to get it up

to failure and again it just it's not as

easy as I originally thought we could do

so let's talk about the beta dns method

that's in the code this equation is what

we use because that was a little better

than design we were trying to figure out

how to get there closer so that's coming

up here and I mentioned it does pretty

good this is beta DNS is zero meaning

there is no sustained load effect

short-term stiffness there we go and we

fit reduce stiffness so the code

actually has a commentary that mentions

I can just use point six it doesn't

matter what the load

you kind of use point six and it worked

out pretty well for you so we looked at

point six is just a number because it's

harder to figure out some of the other

ratios so if you do that this actually

points six on that works pretty well

right design and it's conservative here

so right there we almost hit it with the

point six let's look at another column

so here's the experimental test and here

you just see the zero again and now as

it picks it up really well that curve

coming over but at the design this point

six you're gonna see that we're

basically not conservative point six is

just not reducing enough stiffness for

this column at the design level now when

I kid over to here at a nominal it's

it's hitting again but the question is

when I'm calculating these aren't really

thinking about calculating they're on

this location if I use a beta D NS a one

no I cut again fifty percent to account

for the sustained effect it works pretty

well and it turns out using one was

generally conservative for all our tests

so we kind of liked if we wanted a

simple number one just cut it down fifty

percent for the sustained effect we

using an accurate equation works

reasonably well let me show you you've

baited DNS here

this is using the point four so . e I

again it's going to be conservative by a

CI and then if you take the point six

which they're doing you get way lower

you know in terms of that behavior so

again conservative it's safe but if we

want to really push slender columns a

little more so what their capacities are

where we're really not able to make them

as slender as we probably can so long

term stiffness this may not be a bad

approach we think there may be some

alternates but it's a simple way of

doing it the point six is conservative

but realize you need to use the lower

bound equations does . point to VI

alright when I use it with Kuhn TIA

that's in the code right now if I use

that it's unconservative so if you have

us good first initial stiffness you only

use the point six it's just not taking

enough off for the summer

for the sustained load effect . we

thought gave really accurate short-term

are reasonable for the short-term

equations that were accurate so we think

it may provide a lower bound it be a

good number it's % of the stiffness

but I'm gonna caution here I think

further research is needed I mean we had

a limited number of tests here sustained

it works what we were hoping to do as I

mentioned before is develop an analysis

procedure that could predict the

behavior of , columns that we can

compare to a whole family of sustained

loads and then make sure what we had

worked but we haven't mainly developed

that tool yet the sustain analysis of

predicting how it sustains and then goes

up we were getting close but we're still

not there where we feel comfortable with

that yet the best of goal so we don't

get test , powers I mean we want to

test a range no we're good and then move

forward so we also did look at the start

cons I just wanted to mention something

here because I mentioned I sustained for

a hundred days we took the plane totally

plain and reinforced no second-order

effects scalebar thirteen we have

different eccentricities also for no

eccentricity up and we also make sure we

put % F prime C at the compression

face always the same so we have a

similar creep was the idea and we

monitored the strain on from both the

compression attends a face and we loaded

these for a year so we net in just have

days there a year so if I take a

look at that this is plane columns these

three different eccentricities follow

pretty well the creep did at percent

holding that it worked pretty well

here's the reinforced it's going to

break down your strain because the steel

is taking right the steel is shedding

the concrete shedding loading to that

steel and so you see the reduction here

but if I take a look at a duration let's

say reinforced here I'm not here about

micro strains so I'm coming up now

so there is some more strain that will

develop obviously the bulk of it's all

happening here but there is some more so

we were cognizant that we

loaded bill hunter so I feel still

better with a one point of than that

point six that I was mentioning here for

the sustained load effect so conclusion

this equation works really well for

short term stiffness so this would be a

good way to proceed further the long

term stiffness of the beta DMS and I

just want to stress that it's really

only applicable for the simple equations

if you use Koon TIA that is not a good

idea because it's accurate stiffness it

also already can become conservative and

then I'm not going to cut it down enough

by the sustained load effect acting

stiffness do require higher beta we

think one of is actually a good number

but again I caution on that number we

just don't have enough yet that I feel

comfortably could put in the code at

this point further research is really

needed to define that to make sure that

we're okay because again I'm not it's

one thing to say I'm doing I don't to

say I'll go with some of crack control

but if I'm a little often it cracks and

I don't want to have a column out here

that we're significantly underestimated

the moments that we're gonna put in the

code that can be used for every building

that we're going to design with so I

feel very comfortable in the short term

stiffness we could codify that tomorrow

it's just a sustained effect we have to

bring in the limit of . I didn't spend

a lot of time that it's not needed for

the brace columns we can predict what

these values are how much moment is

happening regardless of the level so we

don't need a lemon to code for the nonce

way case I wanted to mention one thing

on that when you're second-order effects

start to become much higher than your

first order effects I think as a

designer you need to start thinking

about it right because thus learners the

bending that column is causing more

moment than what the primary effect is

is that where you want to be or not if

you have very little moment eccentricity

it's not as bad if you have a bit a

moment and you got hundred foot Kip's on

that column or something like that now

you're getting to because the

second order I you know

your sensitivity is there so just

something to think about but I think we

can get rid of the . the nonce way

let's do some really slender columns so

this is a precast one too so you can see

I'm using in slender columns and in the

precast pre-stress world quite a bit too

so for PCI we actually have also gotten

some guides to them that the point e I

works really well too so you can use the

point for e eyes we have the equations

also those will work for the precast so

so with that we may go to come by the

time here no you did really well

open up for any questions and I hope for

those of you that are in structural

engineers I didn't get you way out of

bounds there in terms of some of the

detail but I think you got to look at

the whole thing but people are pushing

some of these these columns yes when

would this be applied to a code well the

earliest that we're gonna see something

is so that's the next edition a

three-team we're currently working on

and so will it make it they're not out

of every Oh again my concern I was ready

to push it all until we have someone

certain canvases stain load effect and

that's really the thing that would barb

me back or hold me back a little from

pushing it too far I mean that it turns

getting the cootie out I mean I have an

SK to deal with but you'll know SK and

you'll know SK and I noticed so but you

know it's it's he has some ownership of

that equation so I'll talk to SK about

that that's another story but I think

there's some you know that will that I

think we ought to really consider of

moving out I don't think anyone's really

using it and so I don't think it's a

hardship to get rid of it but I think it

can be unsafe and that's my concern

so that is likely to happen in the point

whether we will have enough to get

the other part in there yet I'm on edge

about that because it turns out

sounds far away it's actually in code

world not that far away because of the

process we have to go through with

public review and

the whole thing so we need to wrap up a

lot of our things within the next year

in order for it to really guarantee to

be in the code the next code after

that likely will be three years beyond

you know so what does oh he changes

their whole thing again and they keep

changing stuff

well what about really more research

through you know find more findings on

today I think yeah we definitely I mean

we really spend more research on the

sustained load effect what I would like

to also do and I think I'd like to take

somewhere I had the same column but I

sustained them at different loads we

were trying to push the columns look at

the ones while we were doing a lot of

things in here I'd like to take the same

column and sustain it at you know

for you know different sustained loads

because I believe that will show us how

much sustained this should the lower my

load level obviously don't have as much

that's happening I believe that it will

show the . is gonna work beautifully

and that we can predict them all all the

way up essentially to final failure and

so we you know had only a certain amount

of you know dollars to play on this I

have the frames now all that we invested

in so I think we oughta Billy do some

more and we returning answer PCI we did

a lot of pre di to shows but we did

pre-stress columns and so we were

prestressing in the lab getting those

columns done so I think we answered a

lot of questions but the sustained load

one is still we need a hone in we were

trying to push them as high sustained

loads as we could to make sure we were

safe but in that we lost some of the

behavior things as we're trying to

analyze it boy it would have been great

if we woulda had these to make sure we

were predicting them correctly I saw a

question yeah yeah we're seeing a lot of

super high strength concrete columns in

New York area but I think the real

problem we're seeing especially as they

get taller and thinner and we're having

really large pieces of rebar in there so

how do you get the concrete in there you

guys would be

question for the bank oh yeah I guess

the question is that how do you get the

concrete in when you have smaller

columns and large bores inside of there

that's developing and so that means in

methods I'm always told by my colleagues

that are contractors so let them figure

it out

but no I mean it becomes a reality or as

we're starting to do things is how do

you know if you're getting a network in

there and I've seen some problems and

some litigation type cases where they

put the bar so damn close to each other

you couldn't get concrete in between the

bars and so I think the constructability

needs to be thought about as we're

trying to do some of these things but

you know when you're going to some of

the higher strength and steals ksi

that could lead a lot of these you know

you're gonna get columns that can be

shorter so we at very end because we're

working with Pankow foundation and we

did a ATC study there's a TC report of

saying the next generation of codes that

we're gonna address on our ksi KS

sidebars our code currently limits us to

ksi there's a few things that limits

you the and a in Ted but there

were hard limit really in our code so

as we wouldn't push that to what

research needs to be done we outlined

looking at every single thing from bond

the shear strength to cracking all type

of things what needs to be done to move

that to the higher strength bars and I

saw Ramon he was involved in that effort

too and so it's is kind of interesting

because while we were doing that study

my student was still working this I said

hey you know we everything was great

let's just throw in net so we

started in his dissertation a report

that was provided had a little look at

what needed to adjust and just a few

little things that would have just been

general what we have works for the great

hunter yeah I'm sorry yeah ATC it's

a free download for anybody interested

in looking at that you can go to a TC

site or the Pankow foundations has this

been published anywhere it is not

published other than the report that was

provided to each of our industry

sponsors at this point we are working on

the you know some journal publications

and there's a small publication of

proceedings for the PCI

that was down Nash

actually just presented a few weeks ago

well it's really hot off the press and

the slenderness with with the

slenderness columns obviously the

tolerance has become critical how do

these formulas take into account the

structure stiffness of . so

technically none of this was showing the

. in that ai but that is the

stiffness reduction factor for the fact

that if your column is actually not

constructed properly it's a little

smaller it's gonna reduce the stiffness

beyond what this is gonna predict so

you're taking a three-quarter hit hour a

quarter hit but you're only going to

account for % of that stiffness and

actually with some of the equations some

of that stuff saves us right because of

problems that develop because InDesign

it was built perfectly where we can

predict it well but if it's often

columns don't align correctly and you're

getting eccentricities that you didn't

think about right so that's why we have

these accidental eccentricity factors in

what's actually happening right now with

that one point four factor is many times

the minimum eccentricity is what's

kicking into / so you hit this minimum

eccentricity and then when you the

column is actually magnifying more than

that just under minimum eccentricities

so that's where I think we can get rid

of the . is there's an annual report

on the table concrete foundation that

gives a report on this research but the

the total amount of pages I think is

about pages yes but there's a recap

an annual report on the reason but if

you know if you want to contact me I'm

glad to send you the report you anybody

just let me know I'm glad the . you

and yeah we need to get the journal

papers out on it unfortunately my

personal problem I became associate dean

in the college of engineering and so as

part of that I'm responsible for all the

facilities in the college all the

finances and all safety in the college

so with that aspect it's taken away a

little bit of my time so sure thank you

Robert

the body else enjoy your day the rest of

your day sure it was all I'm afraid up a

dark in that soil it's okay

you
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