Art of Credit - OK..What Pieces Make Up A GOOD DV Letter..

Art of Credit - OK..What pieces make up a GOOD DV Letter...
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Default OK..What pieces make up a GOOD DV Letter...
Lots of people on this board have some sort of DV letter that they use. Lots of them are different. Some are variations of a different one, some are original. Whatever... I just want to know what pieces make up a GOOD letter? I'm going to assume that we can all agree on the format: Code:
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1 of 13 7/2/2006 1:06 PM
Your Name Your Address City, State, Zip CA Name CA Address City, State, Zip Date RE: Account Number Greeting: Body of letter Closing Your name (not signed)
So, what things NEED to be said in the body of the letter? I don't want to hear about C&D's, or limited C&D's. I just want to get straight on what makes a good DV letter. I don't care if it's in SOL, out of SOL whatever. The only assumption I want to make is that you have just received your initial contact. __________________ And the geeks shall inherit the Earth... Reply With Quote cache Old 03-10-2005, 05:01 PM #2 cache Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,064
TowerRat cache TowerRat is offline

Global Moderator Default Quote:
1692g(b)If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed..."
Take a big purple crayon and write "I dispute this debt." That's all you need to do to comply with the law and preserve your rights under 1692g(b)
2 of 13 7/2/2006 1:06 PM
(someone did exactly that according to a federal court case). There is no magic forumla that will cause instant deletion or salvation. Seriously, I doubt that they actually read them completely. Having received a timely DV letter, the CA/JDB is required to either cease collection or provide validation within a reasonable amount of time, about 90 days or so. They are not required to complete and return any silly survey forms or questionaires and they are not required to provide their charter of incorporation and minutes from board member meetings.
If you want a layout guide, that's straightforward: Date an absolute must Address blocks RE: Account Number (if known) IN RE: SUBJECT: SUBJ: and variations VIA CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED: VIA CERTIFIED MAIL VIA RETURN CERTIFIED MAIL and variations (Greeting) 1. To write the first sentence, ask yourself what prompted you to send a DV? I am in receipt of your initial collection notice dated February 21, 2005 which I received on March 15, 2005. or This is in response to our telephone conversation which you initiated on March 2, 2005 (which escalated into a verbal altercation which then escalated into a physical altercation and several $100 million in property damages in the subsequent riots and arson fires that followed). or I recently obtained a copy of my credit report on March 2, 2005 and noticed that you are reporting derogatory information. or This is regarding the continual and annoying messages your employees keep leaving on my answering machine.
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or I am writing concerning the profuse beating about the head and shoulders with a blunt object that I received from your henchmen.
2. Next, meet your obligation under 1692g(b) I dispute this debt. I dispute this alleged debt. I dispute the debt in its entirety. I dispute the character, amount and legal status of this alleged debt. I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety, including the character, amount and legal status. This alleged debt is disputed. This debt is disptuted. This debt is dipsuted in its entirety. The entire portion of this debt is disptued. Not so hard is it? I suppose you could say "I disagree with this debt" but I think one should stick to the wording/phrasing used in the FDCPA. Now you are done. Mail it off or you might wish to add some optional items. Everyone please note that these are OPTIONAL and NOT required, and furthermore, may NOT apply. OPTION 3 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is licensing/ bonding. Before anyone embarasses themselves, they should read their state's statutes and ask questions. Not all states have licensing/bonding requirements. Of those that do, nearly all exempt attorneys and nearly all exempt out-of-state collectors with a blanket exception or through reciprocity. If at this point, you are still in the game, the state definition of a debt collector is not always the same as a debt collector under the FDCPA, which means that JDBs may be exempt since they are classified as debt purchasers and not debt collectors. Finally, contact state offices in both your state and their state to verify the that their license or bond is valid. If it is not, then say so and demand proof. According to <state agency> you have no license/bond and cannot legally attempt collection on this alleged debt. or Any claims you have against this alleged debt are void and forfeit, should you continue collection efforts without providing me with competent evidence of licensure. (not really but maybe some will back off and of course it doesn't prevent a JDB from assigning the debt to a CA in your state that is licensed so now you have a second TL to mess with). OPTION 4 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is SOL. If the debt is SOL let them know. All applicable statutes of limitation have expired.
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This debt is not collectible because all applicable statutes of limitation have expired No legal action can be taken since the statute of limitations has expired. If the reporting period has also lapsed, let them know. This debt cannot legally be reported to any credit reporting agency. OPTION 5 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is the "inconvenience" clause (or the clause formerly known as the limited C&D). This is optional because I suppose there are times when you don't want them to call you and there are times when you would want the CA/JDB to call you so you can record the call and walk them through every violation in 1692e. It is inconvenient to contact me by telephone at any place or at any time. According to the FTC Staff Commentary on the FDCPA: Quote: Inconvenient or unusual times or places (Section 805(a)(1)). A debt collector may not call the consumer at any time, or on any particular day, if he has credible information (from the consumer or elsewhere) that it is inconvenient. If the debt collector does not have such information, a call on Sunday is not per se illegal.
I don't recommend citing statutes in DV letters as it might eliminate a presumption of the least sophisticated consumer doctrine, but you could also use Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(a)(1), it is inconvenient to contact me by telephone at any place or at any time.
OPTION 6 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is a full cease and desisit. In the event the debt is SOL or SOL and beyond the reporting period. There may be other times when you would want to use a full C&D, even when the debt is inside the SOL, perhaps to force them to do something. One situation my be that you are seeking a mortgage, you have violations on them, so send a C&D and/or refusal to pay. I refuse to pay this debt. I demand you cease communication of this debt. I refuse to pay this debt and demand a cessation of all communications regarding this debt. In this case it may might be helpful to cite statutes
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Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt. Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I demand you cease communication of this debt. In accordance with 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt and demand a cessation of all communications regarding this debt. Quote: 1692c(c) If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer...
Note that 1692c(c) is an "or" clause. That means you can refuse to pay the debt or you can demand they cease communications or you can do both.
According to the FTC Staff Commentary on the FDCPA Quote: 1. Scope. For purposes of this section, the term "communicate" is given its commonly accepted meaning. Thus, the section applies to any contact with the consumer related to the collection of the debt, whether or not the debt is specifically mentioned.
Several people had a thread going (I'm embarassed to say I cannot remember who) regarding the fact that reporting to credit bureaus is a "communication" within the plain language meaning of the FDCPA and there is case law to support that. As a natural extension then, a full C&D should mean that they must also stop reporting the account to the credit reporting agencies. There is no case law to my knowledge on this, but there is a solid foundation for a legal argument supported by the FTC Staff Commentary and case law.
Close it with something simple. Have a nice day. or All violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be reported immediately to the attorneys general and Federal Trade Commission. or Make my day or If you so much as twitch, I will drag you up and down the court house steps until you have a heart attack and die.
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Your signature block without a signature or signature block and "mark" are sufficient. This is not an affidavit nor is it a legal document and your green card is sufficient evidence. __________________ Cry 'Havock!,' and let slip the dogs of credit repair; That this foul deed shall smell above the court house; With junk debt buyers, groaning for burial." Emperor Julius (Act III, Scene 1, Line 268) Reply With Quote cache Old 03-10-2005, 05:06 PM #3 cache Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 235
gdmiller88 cache gdmiller88 is offline

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Thank you very much, TR! I hope this will help people. I know it has helped me. __________________ And the geeks shall inherit the Earth... Reply With Quote cache Old 03-10-2005, 06:30 PM #4 cache Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 3rd Circuit Court. Or next door. Posts: 454
Stormcrow cache Stormcrow is offline

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As always, pay close attention to Tower on this one. There's no need for anything elaborate. I made the mistake of providing a JDB with one of those awful "everything but the kitchen sink" validation letters last year, and fortunate I was not to pay for it. As Tower notes, they didn't bother to pay attention to my long list of demands, and they certainly didn't bother sending back my questionaire. If they had, they would have ceased collection activity, they would not have placed a hard pull or two tradelines on my CR within 3 weeks of receiving my timely DV, and if they had, they would have marked the accounts as disputed. When they did provide validation, paltry as it was, they probably would have sued, and stood a good chance of winning. Even if they ren't likely to read the letter, why tell them what to do? It's their job to know and obey the FDCPA. Most won't anyways, but why give them a primer on how to come after you in a legal fashion? If that's the case, you might as well just break down and pay them. Our last couple of DVs followed the Tower formula: acknowledging the date the dunning letter was received, listing the account number, disputing the debt, and adding a limited C
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& D. While neither technically "tricked" the JDB and CA into violations, I still believe that both companies were possibly more inclined to pull some kind of garbage without a long list of actions. Besides, it makes the JDBs think you're an ill informed consumer, and as Sacha71's memorialized conversation shows, feigned ignorance can go a long way into goading collectors into violations. If you doubt that, go over to CI.com and look at the posts by collectors whining about FDCPA/FCRA violations and "predatory" consumers, even as one acknowledges that he only receives 1 dv for every 250-300 accounts. They're annoyed because they're so profit oriented that they're almost bound to screw up, and they apparently don't have the time/organization/knowledge to avoid violations. __________________ "When I grow up, I want to be a scientist." No one says they want to be a junk debt buyer when they grow up. Friends don't let friends become collection agents! Reply With Quote cache Old 03-10-2005, 06:48 PM #5 cache Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 136
susanna cache susanna is offline

Default Quote: Originally Posted by TowerRat Quote:
1692g(b)If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed..."
Take a big purple crayon and write "I dispute this debt." That's all you need to do to comply with the law and preserve your rights under 1692g(b) (someone did exactly that according to a federal court case). There is no magic forumla that will cause instant deletion or salvation. Seriously, I doubt that they actually read them completely. Having received a timely DV letter, the CA/JDB is required to either cease
8 of 13 7/2/2006 1:06 PM
collection or provide validation within a reasonable amount of time, about 90 days or so. They are not required to complete and return any silly survey forms or questionaires and they are not required to provide their charter of incorporation and minutes from board member meetings.
If you want a layout guide, that's straightforward: Date an absolute must Address blocks RE: Account Number (if known) IN RE: SUBJECT: SUBJ: and variations VIA CERTIFIED MAIL RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED: VIA CERTIFIED MAIL VIA RETURN CERTIFIED MAIL and variations (Greeting) 1. To write the first sentence, ask yourself what prompted you to send a DV? I am in receipt of your initial collection notice dated February 21, 2005 which I received on March 15, 2005. or This is in response to our telephone conversation which you initiated on March 2, 2005 (which escalated into a verbal altercation which then escalated into a physical altercation and several $100 million in property damages in the subsequent riots and arson fires that followed). or I recently obtained a copy of my credit report on March 2, 2005 and noticed that you are reporting derogatory information. or This is regarding the continual and annoying messages your employees keep leaving on my answering machine. or I am writing concerning the profuse beating about the head and shoulders with a blunt object that I received from your henchmen.
2. Next, meet your obligation under 1692g(b)
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I dispute this debt. I dispute this alleged debt. I dispute the debt in its entirety. I dispute the character, amount and legal status of this alleged debt. I dispute this alleged debt in its entirety, including the character, amount and legal status. This alleged debt is disputed. This debt is disptuted. This debt is dipsuted in its entirety. The entire portion of this debt is disptued. Not so hard is it? I suppose you could say "I disagree with this debt" but I think one should stick to the wording/phrasing used in the FDCPA. Now you are done. Mail it off or you might wish to add some optional items. Everyone please note that these are OPTIONAL and NOT required, and furthermore, may NOT apply. OPTION 3 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is licensing/ bonding. Before anyone embarasses themselves, they should read their state's statutes and ask questions. Not all states have licensing/bonding requirements. Of those that do, nearly all exempt attorneys and nearly all exempt out-of-state collectors with a blanket exception or through reciprocity. If at this point, you are still in the game, the state definition of a debt collector is not always the same as a debt collector under the FDCPA, which means that JDBs may be expemt since they are classified as debt purchasers and not debt collectors. Finally, contact state offices in both your state and their state to verify the that their license or bond is valid. If it is not, then say so and demand proof. According to <state agency> you have no license/bond and cannot legally attempt collection on this alleged debt. or Any claims you have against this alleged debt are void and forfeit, should you continue collection efforts without providing me with competent evidence of licensure. (not really but maybe some will back off and of course it doesn't prevent a JDB from assigning the debt to a CA in your state that is licensed so now you have a second TL to mess with). OPTION 4 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is SOL. If the debt is SOL let them know. All applicable statutes of limitation have expired. This debt is not collectible because all applicable statutes of limitation have expired No legal action can be taken since the statute of limitations has expired.
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If the reporting period has also lapsed, let them know. OPTION 5 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is the "inconvenience" clause. It is inconvenient to contact me by telephone at any or at any time. I don't recommend citing statutes in DV letters as it might eliminate a presumption of the least sophisticated consumer doctrine, but you could also use Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(a)(1), it is inconvenient to contact me by telephone at any place or at any time. OPTION 6 which is optional and may not necessarily apply, is a full cease and desisit. In the event the debt is SOL or SOL and beyond the reporting period. I refuse to pay this debt. I demand you cease communication of this debt. I refuse to pay this debt and demand a cessation of all communications regarding this debt. In this case it may might be helpful to cite statutes Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt. Pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I demand you cease communication of this debt. In accordance with 15 U.S.C. 1692c(c), I refuse to pay this debt and demand a cessation of all communications regarding this debt. Close it with something simple. Have a nice day. All violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be reported immediately to the attorneys general and Federal Trade Commission. Your signature block without a signature or signature block and "mark" are sufficient. This is not an affidavit nor is it a legal document and your green card is sufficient evidence.
Here's a "sample letter" template that we could all use. Can this be "stickied" somewhere for all to find? Reply With Quote cache Old 07-02-2005, 11:47 PM #6 cache Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,993
enigma cache enigma is offline

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11 of 13 7/2/2006 1:06 PM
Default Moved to Essen. Section. __________________ "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats". Henry L Mencken Reply With Quote cache Old 07-03-2005, 08:39 PM #7 cache Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,889
Nexus2 cache Nexus2 is offline

Global Moderator Default I agree
After a very long period of disagreement, I am finally going to agree with Tower on this one. I normally quoted statutes in my DV letters and many led to deletions of negative TL's. However, I did not realize the potential impact on the "least sophisticated consumer doctrine". Further, there is no "magic formula". It's hit or miss, and a seemingly magical letter will not be so magical after a few folks decide to use it or many variations are sent to CA's or JDB's by consumers on a regular basis. __________________ Be patient and read all you can. It takes time, patience, and tenacity.... You will appreciate this later. (Nexus2) Reply With Quote cache Reply cache Previous Thread cache | Next Thread cache Thread Tools Show Printable Version Show Printable Version cache Email this Page Email this Page cache Display Modes Linear Mode Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode cache Threaded Mode Switch to Threaded Mode cache cache Posting Rules You may not post new threads Search this Thread Search this Thread: Go Advanced Search cache
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Art of Credit - OK..What Pieces Make Up A GOOD DV Letter..

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